How To Choose Your Diet Supplements, 2 Cool New Health Tools, The Best Way To Change Your Habits And More With Michael Fishman!

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Hey folks, it's Ben Greenfield here. And I gotta tell you, there are some people that I've met when I've been out and about in the health and fitness and nutrition industries who kind of seem to be on really the cutting edge as far as their knowledge of what's going on with health and the future of health, as well as fitness, nutrition and things like having less stress, being more productive, feeling younger, looking better. One of the guys that I've run into who really, really knows his stuff when it comes to kind of having a finger on the pulse of this whole health industry is a guy named Michael Fishman. And Michael is actually an advisor to a bunch of different brands and personalities in kind of like the healthosphere, if you will. And he also leads an annual summit, a Consumer Health Summit, which is this invitation only Mastermind event for CEOs and entrepreneurs and marketing leaders in the health industry. Now he has a website over at michaelfishman consulting.com, but he's also here with us today and we're gonna learn a ton of stuff about kind of the future of health and where it's going and some of the cool things that Michael has noticed. So this will be a fun interview for any of you who are interested in health and nutrition and supplement and fitness and kind of in where the whole industry is going. So, Michael, thanks for coming on the call today.

Hey Ben, I am thrilled to be hanging out with you. Thanks for having me.

So I want to kind of start off by asking you about. You get to see a lot of cutting edge things in the realms of fitness and nutrition and health and more. But before we even kind of get into that, how did you get started with what you're doing as far as consulting in this arena?

Well, I've been at this for a little while. I actually started consulting with Rodale, which publishes Prevention magazine and also Men's Health magazine. A lot of our audience are going to know men's health for sure. Prevention's well known also. So that, I mean, that was I won't even say how many years, but that was a while back and help those big magazines build not only Their magazine readership and their audience, but also some very huge book businesses. You know, anybody that's ever bought a book from Prevention or Men's Health, that's those magazines that are selling those books as well and starting with them as an outside advisor and then moving to lots of other publishing companies, lots of other personal brands and personalities like Andrew Weil and Tony Robbins and Deepak Chopra, and lots and lots of the well known doctors that our listeners are familiar with. That's been my world for several decades supporting those kinds of businesses and more importantly, the mission that they stand for, the purpose they stand for and the millions of people that they impact.

So lately, in terms of getting to see a lot of the cutting edge ideas that are emerging in the realms of fitness and nutrition and health, what are some of the more amazing or kind of compelling things that you've come across that you think are going to be kind of head turners in the industry over the next few years?

Yeah, I really like that, for example, that supplements have become very science based. Just going to events that are focused on supplements or the many supplement entrepreneurs and companies that I know and that, you know, I think all roads have led to this idea of what really works. And even the things that we take to, to prevent things from happening years from now, you know, the CoQ10s and Omega 3s and so forth, there are useful benefits even in day to day, in the day to day function of our body. So at the same time as we're trying, as we're doing things in our life and with supplements to prevent things from happening when we get older, there are also everyday benefits. And I like the fact that companies are helping consumers understand what those benefits are, understand that there's a scientific foundation and basis for what's being sold. Smoke and mirrors have never been the right way for anybody to do business. But right now anything that's more of a hustle, anything that's more of a promise without strong backup is just falling flat. So science based supplements is a great thing.

So when you say science based supplements, toss a few out there that you know of that. I mean, because obviously there's like hundreds of supplements that we see all the time. You know, you talk about Rodale, you know, you flip through a magazine like Prevention or Men's Health and it's like every other page there's, there's some kind of a supplement it seems. But when you say science based supplements, what are a few like that you would take or that, that you've seen kind of kind of seem to have some good science or research behind them.

Well, and as you know, I'm not a doctor or a scientist. And so I take my signals from people I trust like Dr. Mark Hyman or Dr. Daniel people, you know, medical doctors or naturopathic doctors in some cases who have vetted these products from a scientific perspective and responsibly as practitioners. So for me, things like, As I mentioned, CoQ10 Omega 3s, magnesium, alpha lipoic acid and biotin for blood sugar management, vitamin D, of course, garlic glutathione, a very powerful antioxidant. That's probably about half of my daily regimen right there. When I say science based, really what I mean there is that supplements and ingredients that have been subjected to rigorous testing in a laboratory where the results are repeatable and where there are peer reviewed studies, and that the medical community and the scientific community have acknowledged the short term and long term benefits of taking specific supplements and the ingredients that they contain.

Right. And kind of possibly a tough question, but I mean, for people who maybe don't read research journals or who find it kind of difficult to wade through scientific abstracts and things of that nature, do you find that it's best to just kind of listen to some of these doctors who are at the cutting edge or at the forefront, you know, like the, like the guys you mentioned, Dr. Mark Hyman or who was, who was the other guy you mentioned, Andrew Weil?

Well, Daniel, amen.

And Daniel, Amen. Do you find that it's best to kind of tune into those type of physicians websites and blogs or how do you recommend consumers get their information and ensure that it's kind of unbiased and based in this research that you're talking about?

Well, if, if somebody has the academic chops, if you will, and the scientific background to actually go into the scientific and academic journals? I say power to you. Some of the, some of the, some of the titles of the articles themselves are hard to get through. And I'm the first, I'm speaking about myself. I'm not, I'm not qualified to read those articles and fully understand what it is they're describing other than to possibly read the summary or the abstract as it's sometimes called, and just to get the summary findings. But my own preference, just as a consumer, is to identify those trusted advisors, some of whom I'm honored to know personally at this point. But even if I didn't, there are people out there who I don't know, whose opinions I do trust because of their credentials, because of their Transparency in terms of the research they've done. And so that's what I recommend, is to identify a resource that you trust and for which there are good reasons to trust them and go from there. The other thing I did when I first started taking supplements maybe four or five years ago was I actually compared the recommendations of four or five top well known doctors who focus in that particular area. So whether it's cardiovascular health or athletic performance, something that you are of course, and a lot of our listeners are very focused on, and I would actually compare and contrast the recommendations of the top men and women who make those recommendations and then just see which recommendations were in common. Which kind of gives you where the consensus. Because the outliers, the ones, the products or substances that get very few recommendations doesn't mean they're not worthwhile. But in terms of safety and conservatism and just starting with where there's a high degree of agreement, that was what I did.

Yeah, yeah. And I think that even though, as I know that, you know, Michael, physicians can be swayed just as much as the media when it comes to making their recommendations, I like the idea of kind of having those experts, whether it be their blogs or their websites or whatever, who you visit. And if you see the same thing popping up over and over and over again, it's pretty likely that it might be something for you to consider a little bit more seriously or look into as something that might benefit you.

That's interesting. In fairness, some of the personalities that are visible and have fairly robust websites do have supplement lines bearing their own name, do have relationships with other supplement companies where they get a piece of the action on supplements that are sold through their links and so forth. And I think our listeners are very familiar with those kinds of business relationships on the web. So there are financial incentives. But once again, when you are looking at or reading or trusting the recommendations of individual doctors or personalities, finding where the consensus is, I think is a good way to lower the risk and just to get some good ideas. The other really important thing, Ben, is that it doesn't always require a medical doctor or a naturopathic doctor to get a recommendation worth following because you're not a doctor. Other mutual friends of ours, like Dave Asprey at the Bulletproof Executive or Tim Ferriss, Chris Carr, people like that have studied the literature, have studied the scientific findings to a degree where for sure your audience are following your recommendations. So it's important to acknowledge that there are a lot of very well meaning and well researched personalities who may not be doctors or naturopaths. But as long as they're transparent about that, they maintain their credibility through their transparency. And they share with you the research they've done, they share with you their findings. Those kinds of recommendations can sort of be considered when you look for consensus.

And you know, I think that another thing that is important, and I wanted to ask you about this is the whole idea behind, you know, you mentioned something like, you know, garlic or CoQ10 when we're talking about the ingredients used to make supplements like that. That's one of those deals also where not all supplements are created equal, right?

Well, that's for sure. That's for sure. There are ways to evaluate, there are ways for laboratories to evaluate the purity of the ingredients that were put in. I mean, there are One example with Omega 3 fish oil is that the coating of the capsule can be the type that would dissolve in the stomach or in the small intestine. And absorption rates, as I understand it, are much more favorable in the small intestine. And so the capsule itself needs to be comprised of a substance that will enable that capsule to reach the part of the body where it ideally will dissolve. And the stomach is not that place. The other thing is the Omega 3 in the form of, I think I'm pronouncing ethyl ester correctly, which you find in some of the cheaper generic brands or supermarket brands. Whereas a brand like Nordic Natural Naturals or Real Dose or some of the top of the line Omega 3 producers are using a higher grade, a higher quality of oil. And I don't have the scientific background to describe it any better, but those are the kinds. I mean, the point is that they do differentiate also the particular dose or amount of the active ingredient that's in the supplement as compared to the original clinical trial or the original research that demonstrated that that substance was effective. And did that ingredient come from a human clinical trial or an animal clinical trial? And was that ingredient sourced in the same way or from the same part of the world as the ingredients that were originally shown to be worthwhile? So these are the kinds of considerations that I think the more responsible supplement makers using and formulating their products and also sharing with consumers when they market and talk about what's in their products?

Yeah, that's a really good point because all the studies that they did a few years ago on resveratrol and the benefits of resveratrol supplementation, the media takes that and says, well, drink wine and you're going to get all these benefits of resveratrol When I think the dosage that they use in the studies on mice or rats or whatever would have required you to power back about 10 bottles of wine a night to actually get that amount of resveratrol.

Right, exactly, exactly. Exactly. That's where companies can position themselves as well intentioned and well meaning when in fact, and they may even think they are. But in any industry, in any business, there are those businesses that succumb to what we sometimes call the shiny objects in the marketplace. They're going after an opportunity and doing so in sort of the most minimally acceptable manner, as opposed to really doing things in a world class way, or in terms of our conversation, in a manner that's consistent with the science and in a manner that is actually valuable. We don't want to pee away our vitamins or take them and not have them be worthwhile. And so these are some of the considerations that I think are helpful.

Right, right. Not that Michael or I have anything against red wine, by the way. So moving away from supplements, there are obviously other things that we can use to enhance our health. Of course. And I know that you've certainly had a chance to see things like technology or any of these other everything from biohacking to, you know, blood pressure regulation, you name it. What are some other amazing things that you've come across in the past few years that you really think are gonna make a big, big dent in the way that people are able to kind of take control of their own health or the things that are gonna really enhance our performance or enhance our health over the next few years?

Yeah, well, it's interesting because the way I look at things, there's no shortage information available to people, and a lot of it, as, you know, free. I mean, even this, what we're recording right now, people will be able to listen to and have it be valuable, hopefully for free. So there's free information everywhere. The one thing that, and I think everybody knows. Everybody knows. I mean, the information on how to be more healthy, how to be more effective, how to be less stressed, how to have better relationships, helpful and really useful information in those areas is readily available. The thing that's in really short supply. And I think where businesses have moved in to acknowledge and address this, what's in really short supply is people's willingness to change and their ability to keep those changes going once they've been started. And just people's reliance on willpower. When the psychologists and that community have really shown that in terms of the function of our brain willpower is actually a limited resource. And when we rely on willpower to achieve anything over the long term, as we know, the odds are not in our favor. So I think the whole quantified self space, which you are, and those listening, I think are very familiar with the devices and the apps that help us to create systems that we can follow and really more in a connecting the dots mode versus, I mean, it's a nuance. I think it's a fine line. But creating systems and habits as opposed to summoning willpower to stay away from, say, foods we don't want to eat or having the. The willpower to get up in the morning and do the workout, the kinds of things that spur us into action and keep us away from willpower in the quantified self space, in the app space, I think are really. They're like, right on the money in terms of what's needed right now.

Can you give a few examples of things that you've found when you're talking? One thing that comes to mind for me, for example, is, you know, the app, the phone app, Lift, which I know is an app where you feed in, you know, daily habit that you've decided to do, whether it be to whatever, learn to play the guitar every day or, you know, whatever. And you get to work with a community who's kind of keeping you responsible for adhering to that new habit that you've created. And that's just a phone app. But do you have things in mind that you're kind of thinking of when you talk about behavioral change tools?

Well, for me, two of my favorites, and full disclosure, I advise both of these businesses. Two of my favorites are, number one, the Basis band, which I think you're familiar with. That band.

Is that the one called My Basis?

Right. The website is mybasis.com okay.

Yeah, I think I've blogged about it before. I didn't know you were involved with that company.

Yeah, yeah. Interesting. I'm a fan and an advisor. And that is a watch which does tell time. But in addition, through sensors beneath the watch, which rest against the skin, measure, monitor and record a range of cardiovascular.

And respiratory metrics that one does, like sleep, heart rate. Does it do body temperature or perspiration or something like that?

I believe it does body temperature. It does something called galvanic skin response. I believe the speed of blood transit through the vessels just beneath the skin, a range of interesting metrics. Most of those devices in the marketplace, including the Nike Fuel band, et cetera, simply know when you're moving. And if you're sitting still, they don't know if you're talking with a friend or sleeping. Whereas the basis band does know those various things because of the range of body responses that it measures.

That's right. I'm looking at it right now. It does optical blood flow, which would be your heart rate pattern through the day and the night. Accelerometer, which is steps taken. And also how you're moving while you're asleep, like your sleep quality. It does perspiration, it does skin temp. Interesting.

And that. And that that device is as much about the data it generates as it is about having something cool around your wrist.

Right.

I mean, really what it does. Really what it does is, you know, I mean, for anybody who's ever been into rotisserie sports or fantasy sports leagues, I mean, instead of stating everything external to yourself and all these athletes and external things, we have a whole community and a whole generation of people that are now beginning to stat themselves. And statting yourself and working on metrics is a good way to move away from the limited resource of willpower and really moving more into systems and practices and habits that are going to move those numbers. You know, it's similar to setting a. It's kind of like when women want to fit into a specific size of wedding dress. And so three months before their wedding, they do a crash diet. Not that crash diets are healthy, but the point is that's a period of time where people actually stick to things because they have a specific goal. And so willpower actually goes away in service of this total dedication and devotion to a particular goal line. Right, right, right. So, you know, anybody that's. Anybody that's in the business of addressing specific goals, either in time or measured aspects of your physical performance, I think is really serving people in a way that. That's very, very effective. And the other one is an actual device that resembles a video game controller or the yoke of an airplane. If anyone's ever been in a cockpit called the Zona Plus, I've seen this one. And this is an electronic device that prompts you through a short timed sequence of isometric grip exercises, or grip holds, if you will, that actually restores blood pressure to normal for those people who have elevated blood pressure. And so that's something that's 11 or 12 minutes a day, which is a device that really. I mean, the nice thing about it is it's really a functional device in terms of going to the source of elevated blood pressure instead of drugs that are Sort of like band aids on the problem. But that's another example of something that gives people a short daily habit to work on as opposed to some sort of far reaching lifestyle change that at least in the short term, is more difficult for people to take on.

Right. It's easier than even driving to the grocery store and using the blood pressure cuff at the grocery store. It would just be something you could put on your nightstand or whatever. Interesting. Cool. I'm taking notes, by the way, for everybody listening in. I'm taking notes and I'll, I'll put links and everything in the show. Notes. So as far as you, Michael, I know I've heard you on Abel James podcast. I think you were on Dave Asprey's podcast as well, and you talked a little bit about how you've adopted a low sugar lifestyle or really tried to control your carbohydrate intake. And I'm sure people could go and hunt down those podcasts to learn a little bit more because I know you went into great detail. But, but I'm curious to kind of get the overview from you as far as what you found to work for you when it comes to big health wins in that category, like little tips and tricks you found that help you kind of achieve that lower carb or lower sugar intake.

Yeah, well, thank you for asking, Ben. And that's been an interesting process for me because there was a day about a year and a half ago and this was interesting because, I mean, similar to the woman fitting into her wedding dress, this was, I mean, transparently for me, it was 60 days before the Consumer Health Summit, the invitational event that you mentioned. And I just thought, okay, I'm healthy, by the way. Most people would evaluate health, but I'm not really congruent, not really representing at the highest level for somebody that 60 days from now is going to be leading the Consumer Health Summit to the leaders of this industry in one day. 60 days before the Consumer Health Summit, I stopped sugar and really all sweeteners. No honey, molasses, maple syrup, agave, all of it.

Wow. Just cold turkey.

Cold turkey on all sweeteners, as well as gluten, caffeine and alcohol, all four categories in one day. And really sustained it for a very long time. And even sugar and gluten to this very day, which is almost 600 days later. You know, I've sustained that with, I mean, I've made it through.

Yeah, that's tough to do cold turkey without, like putting on a muzzle.

Yeah, well, it was, I was, I mean, it's just an example of had I just chosen some random day. I think symbolism actually helps at least to get started. And so I did it for 60 days and right now it's over a year and a half. The one thing, as you know, I do drink bulletproof coffee on Dave Asprey's recommendation. But because coffee and caffeine are not addictive substances for me, if I wanted to stop bulletproof coffee, I just would. And it wouldn't be hard and I wouldn't get headaches just like when I stopped coffee the first time. That was the easiest win of all of those. So that was just like a no brainer. Alcohol is not addictive for me. So now I'll have a glass or two of wine per month and always red, not white. Caffeine is a daily thing via bulletproof coffee. Wine a couple times a month, no biggie, doesn't trigger me at all. But sugar is the ultimate devil for me and for a lot of people.

Did you experience some pretty intense cravings when you gave it up? And if so, I've heard some people have used things like higher dose sodium or things like apple cider vinegar and things like that to stave off cravings. Did you have any tricks that you used if you got cravings?

Yeah, and I've heard of those and I know they're effective and Mark Hyman has some great recommendations around that. For me, I don't think I knew what those things were at the time. And I wasn't looking for AIDS to sort of make the process easier. I just made my decision and just my conviction got me through. And I know that it was really what was helpful to me and what might serve those who are really committed to taking this on was having that goal line in time 30 days from now or 60 days from now, whatever's happening. And look, you can create your own symbolism. You don't need a wedding or to be speaking on stage to be motivated. Pick a date and say by this particular date, this is what's going to happen. Or the symbolism. And a timeline was really helpful to me and I think would be to a lot of people. And those who've listened to the other podcasts with Abel and Dave have gone ahead and tried this and it's been very, very useful.

Yeah, I think that's one thing that makes my job easy. Working a lot of times with people who have a goal of athletic events. Right. Because they've signed up, it's on the calendar exactly once you actually have that date and that Timeline and that event in mind, it does make things so much easier.

But the thing people have to look out for. And this is really crazy how this works, but for me, I'm sure within a matter of hours or certainly a day or two, the chemical equilibrium of your body is restored. In the absence of simple sugars, however, your brain is clamoring, clamoring, screaming, kicking and screaming to have that experience again. And so my brain, you know, my experience was that my brain wanted that taste experience and that sugar high for months. And so that, that was not a true metabolic or a withdrawal. That was just. Mem't know what you'd call it. But my, the way I say it is my brain wanted that wanted sweets for like six or eight months before it finally was convinced that I wasn't going to answer and stopped calling for. Took me that long to sort of understand what people mean when they say how you feel is a much bigger high than the taste of the foods you gave up. So it's been an interesting process. But your brain and your mind and, and your ego will run every fraudulent story possible to get you to give in. And just when you think you've got a great reason and a great rationale and you really deserve it. And it's only this, you know, there's just a million stories that you will come up with as to why you want to go off. And you must remember that all of that is a fraud. And you got to. And that's the biggest thing that the human mind does is run those stories. And it's like the devil on your shoulder in the cartoons, you know?

Right, right. Yeah, that's what I tell people a lot. I work with folks who are training for Ironman Triathlon, for example, and we use a lot of minimalist training protocols where we'll train like only 8, 10, a maximum of 12 hours a week. And there's this quote unquote story going around that you got to train 25 hours, 30 hours a week to be ready for something like that. And that plays with a lot of people's minds when all their friends are out there training 20 or 25 hours and you know they're doing a third of that. It's hard to overcome that story or that belief or that kind of system that seems to work. And instead trust on, you know, trust your body and trust what you're doing. So it's interesting how you can get carried away with stories like that. Did you have any other, did you use any apps or any other things of that Nature to kind of overcome sugar or make those dietary changes.

I didn't. I'm not an app savvy dude, so it's not something that I can speak to really effectively at all.

What about journaling? Did you ever use journaling or anything of that nature.

Transparently? No. No, I didn't. I'll tell you one thing. I mean, it's kind of like being. I mean, the joke that people have about people who do CrossFit. It's like, how do you know they do CrossFit? Well, they never stop talking about it.

Right.

Maybe in the triathlete community might be the same thing. So for me, it just was something that I was vocalizing a lot in conversations, and there's nobody that hung out with me that didn't know that that's what I was doing. And maybe it was obnoxious, but that's.

A really good point.

It was what was helpful to me to keep that present and to keep that alive and also really for my community to hold me accountable. Because the more people that you alert to what it is you're committed to, whether that's your Facebook community, any other social platforms, or just your immediate physical friends and family, let people in. Don't show up two months later and say, hey, see what I did? And people were like, well, what did you do? Well, let them know from the first moment, because that level of accountability will help you through when. When 10 or 100 or 1000 people know what you're up to. That helps a lot when you're tempted to not do what you said you would.

Yeah, it's like the concept of a commitment contract. Right. Where you can actually. I know they make apps or websites now where you can enter into an actual contract where you say, whatever, you're going to donate $100 to a charity that you don't like or something like that if you don't meet a specific goal. But that idea of social proof is, I think, really powerful. That's a really good point.

Yeah, that's a big one. That is a big one. I would put my bench. I would put my milestone days 100 days, 200 days. I would put it on Facebook, not because I wanted to brag, but because I was really relying on that community. Even if. If 20 or 30 or 40 people commented, I knew that many more had seen it. And to me, that was an important. I used that community as sort of an accountability partner, just as a group. And after a while, I would just put 300. My Facebook status update. I would just put 300 days. And I wouldn't say anything more than 300 days. And those who knew what it meant, knew what it meant. But for me, it was putting those mile markers in public was. It was and continues to be something that is very, very supportive to me as sort of a positive feedback loop.

Yeah. You put your reputation on the line too, in a way as well, which gives you a lot of intrinsic motivation.

Sure. I mean, it's pumpkin pie season. Trust me, I'd love to go out and get one, even right now. But then I have like literally 3,000 people to answer to, you know, and I don't want it. I do not want to face that.

Yeah. Have you ever heard of the website stick.com?

I have.

S t I c k dot com. It allows you to create these type of contracts and it's interesting. It kind of takes a lot of the things that you're talking about and allows you to make a commitment and then kind of broadcast that to your social community to keep you accountable. Oh, that's fantastic. I think. I'm pretty sure it's a free website.

That's beautiful.

Yeah, that and the Lyft app, that's a phone app that kind of achieves a similar effect. So it's interesting stuff. Well, you know, I could talk to you forever, Michael, because I know you're a wealth of knowledge on all this stuff. But I also would love to get some resources from you for people to kind of learn more. Like what you would recommend is the top websites or the top books or the top resources for people to learn more about not only perhaps upcoming trends in health, but things that you've found to help you have less stress or be more productive or feel younger or look better. Do you have specific books that you'd recommend or specific resources that you think are kind of like the biggest wins for people?

Yeah, I do. I'm glad you asked that. I'll give you three books and I think each one of these are actually interesting because each of them suffer from sort of a misnomer, like a title that is a little bit misleading. So here's the first one and it sounds the craziest. It's called Conscious Golf by Gay Hendricks. H E N D R I C K S Gay Hendrix. That's a man. And the book is Conscious Golf. I don't play golf and I know little to nothing about golf. This book is actually. It takes the concept of the follow through in a golf swing and applies it to life and health and business in such a way where he really talks. And the whole idea is if you're overwhelmed, start like finish something before you start the next thing. And it's an amazing. It's a short read, maybe 100 pages, but it looks at what makes golfers effective and actually applies that to every area of life in such a way that this book is one of the great books I've read in any subject and probably horribly under read just because it has a title that makes you think it's about golf. But it really is just a metaphor for a really super effective model for looking at avoiding overwhelm and being productive, whether it's athletic performance, health, work, productivity, anything like that. Highly recommend. Conscious Golf.

Cool.

Another one is do the Work by Steven Pressfield, do the Work, which is also a short book, maybe 80 or 90 pages, but the length is not about length. And effectiveness in books have little or nothing to do with each other. And this is really a hard hitting look at what it is that has us not want to do things. Because as I said earlier, there's no shortage of information. What there is a shortage of is people willing to change and to sustain the changes that they make. And sometimes the hardest thing, like for me, the hardest thing with the changes I made in sugar, gluten, et cetera, was starting. I thought about those things for years before I actually did it. I didn't wake up one day and say, oh, I think I'll do this. I mean, just starting was massively difficult. And do the Work by Steven Breastfield is like, so it just smokes you out of your cave in terms of every possible psychological reason that you're aware of or unaware of why you're not getting started.

Yeah, you know, I'm looking at the COVID of that now. I've actually read that. That's one of the books put out by Seth Godin's publishing company, the Domino Project. And for folks who don't know what the Domino Project is, go Google it or I'll put a link to it in the show notes. But pretty much any book that the Domino Project puts out read. They're good. So what about number three?

The last one would be the Blood sugar solution by Dr. Mark Hyman. This also suffers, I think, from a title that would lead you to think, well, I don't have a blood sugar problem, so why would I read the book? Well, it really is a general health book about blood sugar management and carbohydrate consumption and the root causes of of disease or any kind of dysfunction in the body with respect to our nutrition. And it's only out about a year and a half. And then it was followed up with the Blood Sugar Solution Cookbook for those who like to prepare their own food, which I know a lot of your audience does. But that's just a great book that embraces the current science and really presents healthy lifestyle with respect to nutrition. Because Mark's big thing is food is the most powerful medicine we actually have. And so I think a lot of our audience probably thinks along those lines as well. And so that's just a great book in the current science. I think the nice thing is I don't think in 10 years we're going to look back at 2013 and say, remember how stupid we were, what we thought about food in 2013. I feel like in many ways we got to the heart of the matter in terms of what foods are actually good for us and that saturated fat is not the villain that we thought. And really what makes sense, Mark, is someone whose books really are consistent with current thinking around that, which I know is something that you talk about quite a bit as well.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, what I'm going to do for all of you listening in is I'll put a link to these in the show notes as well, to just I know we've talked about a ton of stuff today, from the basis band of the Zona plus to Bulletproof Coffee to all these books, to Dr. Daniel Amen and Dr. Mark Hyman and lots of resources. So I'll put a link to all this stuff as well as to Michael Fishman's website, michaelfishmanconsulting.com in the show notes so that you can go and explore some of these resources that we've talked about. So, Michael, thank you so much for coming on the call today.

Ben. This was as much fun as I knew it would be. So thanks for the privilege of being with you.

Thanks, folks. This is Ben Greenfield and Michael Fishman. We're signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com have a great week. This is.

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