How To Fall Asleep Faster, Stay Asleep, Nap Efficiently, Beat Migraines & More.

Hey folks, it's Ben Greenfield here, sitting in front of a roaring fire on a freezing cold night way up north in British Columbia. And you'll find out during this podcast episode why I'm in that specific scenario in this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness Show.

I got back on the phone with people the next day and I'm like, okay, this is what's going on. The signals get into your brain and your brain's trying to train to it, but when you start thinking about it and engaging it, you're just, your body's waking up. So just kind of welcome it, trust it. Using the device, you go straight into three and four and a lot of people will reach stage five during a nap period. So your naps will be productive, you know, but we say allow for 90 minutes. But the data is showing customer reviews, product Reviews are showing 20, 30, 40 minute naps are productive. He's an expert in human performance and nutrition, voted America's top personal trainer and one of the globe's most influential people in health and fitness. His show provides you with everything you need to optimize physical and mental performance. He is Ben Greenfield.

Power, speed, mobility, balance, whatever it is for you, that's the natural movement. Get out there. When you look at all the studies done, studies that have shown the greatest efficacy.

All the information you need in one place right here, right now on the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast.

Hey folks, it's Ben Greenfield here. And it was a few weeks ago that I published this article. I got tons of questions, tons of comments on it. The name of this article was get yourself ready for this, A tiny half ounce piece of game changing sleep technology and how to use pulsed electromagnetic field therapy for sleep. I know it's a mouthful, but in that article I talked about this device that I've been putting on my collarbone before I go to bed at night. It's something I've been using for sleep. It's something I've been using for naps. It's something I've been using when I wake up at night. I, I've even been using it on airplanes and the results have been kind of interesting. So not to go off on too much of a rabbit hole here to dive down too much of a rabbit hole. But I've got this new sleep tracking device I've been using. I'll talk about that later, so just stay tuned for that. But I've been measuring some things with a sleep tracking device. My sleep efficiency, for example, since I started slapping this thing on my collarbone before I go to bed at night, my sleep efficiency has jumped from 80 up to 97%. I've gone from an average of 52 minutes of wake time during an average night of sleep down to a total wake time of 28 minutes during an average night of sleep. My deep sleep, the amount of time I've spent in the deep sleep part of my sleep cycle, it's gone from 33 minutes per night to 2 hours and 22 minutes. My sleep latency, which is how long it takes to fall asleep, that's gone from an average of 16 minutes to down to 7 minutes. My heart rate during a night of sleep, this one kind of shocked me. It dropped from 39 minutes or 39 beats per minute down to 36 beats per minute. And the list goes on and on. I'm working on a pretty comprehensive article in the future that's going to show all these sleep hacking results and we'll kind of delve more deeply into sleep quantification. But in the meantime, I decided that I wanted to get onto the show. The guy who introduced this device to me, this device called the Delta sleeper, it's the SR1, which stands for somni resonance. The SR1 Delta sleeper, that's the name of this device that I've been putting on my collarbone. And he is a guy who. Well, he's really mad after my own heart. I'm actually sitting here with him. I'm sitting in beautiful British Columbia, Way up north in British Columbia, in a country that is beyond words to describe. I'm surrounded by this mountain range. I've been fishing and hiking. I've got my two little boys here, and we've been riding horses and exploring thousands of acres of ranch. And it's just been an amazing outdoor adventure. And the guy who lives in this jewel up in B.C. is the same guy who sent me this device, the same guy who's sitting right here with me. Now, I know it's very. It's very out of the ordinary for you guys to get a chance to hear me interview somebody and have them be right here with me. And not on Skype or something like that, but today we're sitting here and my guest name is Michael Larries. Michael is. He used to be a U.S. navy diver. He's an outdoor enthusiast. He's. He's now becoming a good friend of mine. He's a good man. He. He's got a fantastic story. And in today's podcast, you're not only going to discover how this device works and how you can use it but you're going to learn a lot more just about how to improve your life, the very interesting health journey that Michael's been on with his family and much more. So this is going to be a must listen for you, in my opinion. Now a couple of quick things before we dive in and I welcome Mike to the show. First of all, you can access the show notes for everything that Michael and I talk about today over at BenGreenfieldFitness.com DeepSleep that's BenGreenfieldFitness.com deepsleep the other thing you should know is that if you have any questions, any comments, anything like that as we go, you can also go to the show notes and you can ask your questions over there and Michael or I will be happy to help you out as we go. So that all being said, Michael, dude, welcome to the show.

Thank you. It's a pleasure to be sitting here with you.

Yeah, it's, this is, I mean, I'm sitting here with a crackling fire behind me. My kids are inside. We just returned from a day on the lake of fishing and tell me, tell me how you came to be way out here in the middle of nowhere. Cause we really are in the middle of nowhere right now. We've got these mics set up, but it's kind of funny. We've got this fancy technology and we are out in the sticks of B.C. no cell phone access. It took us three hours to drive in through bumpy roads from this tiny little airport. How'd you come to be out here?

Trust. Dreaming about something and trusting that it'll come. Following my nose and following instinct, Taking chances, taking risk.

Well, you, you told me a really interesting story when we were driving out here on that three hour drive. We were keeping our fingers crossed the kids weren't going to get all carsick. You told me a story about, about your wife and how that was part of the reason that you wound up here in the first place. Yeah, your wife who's been cooking amazing meals for us the past few days, by the way, as we wander in from the cold. But tell me the story because I think this will be really interesting for folks who are into health.

Yeah, that was the trust factor that kicked in and brought us to believing we could find a place like this. She had a really bad accident when my son was born. My second child happened in the hospital and that just changed everything. We were a big corporation focused on the bottom line, focused on the profit margin.

You were running like a dive company.

Yeah.

Deep sea commercial Dive type of thing.

Full blown commercial dive company. We had a lot of exposure, big projects going on. Some might remember the, when they blew the Charles, the old Charleston bridge back in 2000. That would be 2005, Charleston, South Carolina. Yeah, we were working on that project, clearing it, you know, just a lot of stuff going on. And when that accident happened, it just forced us to kind of sit back and reevaluate everything, you know, so it just, it went inward to family and healing and you know, we've always helped people and always been interested in campaigns with wellness, but this brought it to a whole new level.

Yeah.

Literally. So, you know, we had to, because of her injuries, we had to look for a drier climate.

We'll back it up a second. What kind of injuries?

How.

What are we talking about here?

Oh, she, she just had our son and the first time they go to the bathroom, they're assisted.

And this is your son Dylan, who's sitting inside with my boys right now.

He's 10.

Watching, watching. I think they're watching TV now because we wanted to keep him quiet. So yeah, we get a bunch of kids running into the podcast. So. So this was back when your wife had Dylan.

Yeah, just two hours after he was born, she went to the bathroom for the first time. And any of the ladies out there have ever given birth know what that's about? That's kind of a risky maneuver. So they always go in there, you know, with a nurse.

But I mean like, because it, it's a risky maneuver to go into the bathroom at a hospital after you've had a baby.

Yeah, the first time. Yes. Because they've had so much blood loss that they can have. It's not uncommon for women to pass out.

Okay.

Or have complications with just right. Dizziness, you know, or not being sure footed because they've had so much blood loss. But she went in there with the nurse and she told the nurse she felt faint. And I heard her say that because I was in the room with our new son and I had a two year old daughter. Then next thing I know, I see the nurse in the doorway and I couldn't get it out of my mouth fast enough. I said, don't leave my. I want to say don't leave my wife in there. All I got was don't leave. Boom. I heard my wife hit. She blacked out and face first on the concrete floor. I don't know how in detail you want me to get, but we come around the corner real fast.

You know, you told me it sounded Like a pumpkin.

Yeah, it's literally like busting a pumpkin on the road, you know, it was a horrific sound. And the nurse turned and looked and oh my God, she screamed and ran. She was only four feet from her. And I come around the corner and nurse is just. I don't mean to be too graphic, but there's blood everywhere. She's convulsing. My daughter starts freaking out. My son, I'm holding him, he's, you know, two hours old. And I knew right then and there, if she lived, my life had completely changed. And it was just a mess after that. For the first 10 minutes, she couldn't get. I'm not gonna hammer on the hospital because it was just a small mistake that changed her life forever, you know. But anyway, she sustained such heavy injuries with broken palate, she had to have seven root canals on her front teeth just to save them.

She's got his. And this is like a brand new newborn baby she has at the same time.

Yeah, he's two. He's two hours old. Yep. She broke her nose, fractured teeth, and, you know, so for the next few months we breastfed, of course. So for the next few months it was just operations, procedures, doctors, you know, we're under hospital care for a couple years, so we couldn't branch out on our own. To explore healing in a natural pathway, we had to go the regular western medicine way. And that was tough because there's a lot of pain meds involved. They're all supposed to be okay for, you know, breastfeeding and whatnot, but it was just.

Yeah, but still, I mean, even those are okay for breastfeeding. I mean, you know, and we'll talk about sleep meds later on, but you know, a lot of this stuff, addiction.

Liver toxicity, you know, so we, you know, we got a front line exposure to some pretty hard stuff.

Yeah.

And you know, my wife, she's amazing. You know, she'd be in there getting four root canals done one day, she'd breastfeed Dylan. I'm sitting in a truck outside with him and she goes in for surgery, but she's got to take locals because she's breastfeeding.

Yeah.

So she gets four root canals done one day, and we come back a week later, she gets the other three on the bottoms done, you know, and same, same procedure, but you know, I literally had to pull in at that point.

They had to put her whole friggin face back together while she was trying, she. And you were trying to take care of this new baby.

Oh, yeah. But you know, we didn't even realize the extent of the injuries. The extent of the injuries for months, even over a year, you know, for. We'd go to a maxillo facial, they.

Call it, I guess, you know, maxillofacial.

Yeah. And, you know, they do X rays. Yeah. There's a few bits of teeth in your lip, and they'd pull it out, and four weeks later, here comes another chip of a tooth surfacing out of her lip, you know, and it's enough to make a man mean, hard, and just really turn, you know, against things. But we never let it do that to us. We just kept exploring. Exploring best possible ways of healing. It was two years. I mean, we had reconstructive surgery on her nose a year after the accident, because that's when it was okay to have surgery because she healed up and up, but she was always healing the wrong direction. She only had 10% of capacity through one nostril, and the other one was completely blocked off. So if you can imagine living like that, you know, plus the pain. She had a lot of neurological pain, face pain, radiating pain, barometric pressure effects on her. Like, you know, we lived in the Southeast then, and when a storm would roll through, which is every three or four days in the Southeast, she just.

Yeah. You don't even think about the kind of stuff the pressure does your face.

Yeah, it's agonizing. Anybody that's got a trick knee or an elbow out there knows it when it knows when it's gonna rain.

Yeah.

Where a storm's coming was on her, you know, in her face. And. Yeah, it was tricky. It was just.

This was 10 years ago. Dylan's 10 now.

Yeah, this is 2005 and 2006 and into 2007. And, you know, that made a big change with our plans and what we wanted to do there. And, you know, we had a. We had a lot of property up there in the mountains of North Carolina, really quiet, and we were looking at doing a deal on the Mirren property, on the mountain property. But when this happened, I just pulled in everything and just went into survival mode with my crews and hiring guys in to run my projects.

And so we were on the cusp of building, like, a dream home in. In the Carolinas. In South Carolina.

We had dream home.

We built it like this dive company that you were running, and you were, like. You were successful, and you were getting ready to live the dream. And then all this happened, and just.

Like, oh, we were in the dream.

Hit the fan.

We were in the dream. We Were just expanding. We were just basically buying all the property around us to create a barrier of just, you know, development and whatnot. Just trying to keep everything green was the mantra, you know, so we had. We lived on almost 200 acres. We're gonna buy another 200 acres next to us. But this is right before the market collapsed. And my accountant told me, if you try to buy this land, you're crazy. You know, you just got too much going on with your wife's injury. You don't know what you're gonna have to pay for here. Few years. So he advised against it. We didn't buy it.

And then you've got all these other environmental issues, like this barometric pressure thing, for example. You're talking about where your wife's.

Oh, yeah.

Getting hammered.

Yeah.

Living there.

Yeah. A developer bought the property next to us.

Yeah.

And he started hacking up the forest.

He wanted to build, like, 200 homes on those 200 acres.

I won't mention his name. Yeah. But 200 homes on 200 acres on steep mountain properties. Yeah. A no go. But, you know, they started carving up the land, and the watershed went red with, you know, Georgia clay. Even though it's North Carolina, it's red like Georgia clay. And Nicole just looked at me one day and she said, I don't feel it anymore. And I said, don't tell me that. And she said, I just. I'm just telling you I don't feel it for here anymore. It's just noise, pain, storms. She's like, we gotta change gears here. That was hard because we were living a dream. You know, even though she had her injuries, we had two beautiful, healthy children. And that's always what kept us grounded. You know, sometimes you think you're jinxed or hexed with all these bad things going on, but that's just life.

So you started searching for a new place.

You started looking out west. We. We flew to Montana, we went to Colorado. We looked at all these properties out west, and, you know, we got close on a couple, and one thing led to another, and we found this ranch out in British Columbia.

The one we're sitting on right now.

Exactly. Sitting on.

Yeah, man, this is. This is a jewel. This is jewel. And I know, I know for those of you listening, it may sound like a long intro to something about sleep. But what I find really interesting is. And what I've discovered about Michael is he really digs deep into these health issues in terms of figuring out how to heal. And I walk in your house and you've Got essential oils everywhere and all these things that your wife is doing now to help her heal. And one of the things I thought was interesting that you mentioned to me during that three hour drive that we were coming in here on those bumpy roads is she actually got like, she wound up with like a MRSA or a staph infection in her face.

Yeah. And it took a while to figure that one out.

When did that one happen?

Well, we figure when she had reconstructive surgery because, you know, a lot of people pick up MRSA in the hospital.

Yeah.

So, I mean, they've gotten in.

I mean, I almost lost my leg. I have these big golf ball sized scars in the back of my leg. Like I have a whole article about it on the bed. Then Greenfield Fitness website about MRSA and what I wound up doing about it. But I mean, I literally like, I had. I had surgeons packing iodine and all sorts of crap into the back of my leg. I could not imagine having that inside of your face.

She had it in her sinus cavities. And you know, they. Because they had to go in and re. Break her nose. And I'll be honest with you, that's when the pain really, really had to re.

Break her nose.

Yeah. So she had to go in and have it re. Broke and then they bored it out and they borrowed cartilage off the bridge of her nose to rebuild part of her cavity.

Yeah. I mean, I'm not, I'm not just saying this. I mean, she's inside and she's like a beautiful woman. Like.

Thank you.

You wouldn't tell. You would know any of this. Like looking at her, she.

She smiled through all of it. I mean, I saw her melt down a few times. I could show you pictures later. I did the progressive shots.

Yeah.

You know, and it's just, it's pretty brutal. But I had to document everything. I didn't do it because, you know, twisted thing to do. We had to document everything.

Right.

You know, so. But you know, that really brings. You got to be careful what you ask for in life. It'll get handed to you in a package that maybe is not so pleasant. But when it's all said and done and you're sitting here doing something like this and before, so. But you know, a lot of things make sense.

Yeah.

God in the universe doesn't care which side it comes on. If you ask for it, it's going to come.

So at what point did you start sleep hacking? Like, kind of starting to look into how to get a better night's sleep. Or was this something to do with this injury and this journey that you went through with her? Or was it kind of like a different scenario that starting to look into things like pulsed electromagnetic field therapy for sleep and that kind of thing entered the picture?

Well, you know, we were always on a quest for better ways to heal before then, you know, and that's kind of what I was getting out about. Be careful what you asked for. You know, the best way to learn something is to get deeply immersed in it. Well, we did, and it's no surprise.

But I became a health nerd.

Oh, man. You know, if you came to our house, we fed you organics, we had essential oils.

Yeah.

You know, as a matter of fact.

Like we've been eating like organic blueberries and organic strawberries and all this stuff. And it's like, it's expensive up here. I mean, you guys are going out of your way. I know you have a big farm out here where you're going, but we're out here, you know, in the middle of winter. So I know a lot of this stuff you're having to drive three hours into town to get. And I see that, that you're making a solid effort. But, but up till that point, you, you really hadn't had much of an interest in like natural health and stuff like that.

Oh, before. So we did. And that was before her injury. Oh yeah. And that's what was frustrating about being under hospital care because everything they shot her with and gave her and for med, we couldn't turn the, we couldn't turn their modality of healing down. We were, you know, basically if we did, then we would have to carry the burden of everything. And we, it was a learning process for us too. We didn't know about all these, these kind of injuries and the body responds to certain things, even pain meds. You know, she was so resistant to pain meds that anything they gave her two days later wasn't working.

Geez. So the PAMF thing, when did you start into that?

Well, I was getting migraines and after the two year hospital mandate expired, we were allowed to explore other. Whatever we wanted to do to, to heal. Nicole and I had helped a young lady named Rachel start a herbal body care company.

You know, because one of the things you do is you just invest in companies.

Yes, that's fine.

That's. You made some of this money like where you were gonna, you were buying all these acres in South Carolina.

Right.

And, and so, so you're, I mean, like you're You're a successful businessman.

Yeah. I always believed in, you know, clean employment. Try to develop business models where you're helping other people.

You haven't learned how to grow much hair on your head.

Well, I did, but just.

Just for the record, Michael's sitting here. He's. He's got a lot less hair than me. However, I do have him started into cold showers as.

Oh, yeah.

As of this week, he's. He's gotten a few good ones. It's glacier cold water up here. Yeah, like I can stick my head in your water. I've been taking a cold shower every morning here, and I can get my head in for about 10 seconds before I get the brain freeze.

Well, I don't feel so bad then. Yeah, it's pretty painful.

Yeah. So. So anyways, you. You were getting migraines, and you started to look into it for that.

Yeah. Well, the. The girl that I helped start Herbal Herbal Body Care Company suggested we go discuss Nicole's situation with a doctor. She's a naturopath, M.D.

Okay.

And I attribute her care to saving Nicole's life, because Nicole was having seizures, and just everything. Everything had compounded, probably as a combination of the pain, anxiety caused from the pain. She had adrenal fatigue because she'd been in so much pain for so long. So as we were getting her into this doctor's care, you know, we really built a great trust with her. And so after we got Nicole kind.

Of, where was his doctor?

She's down in Hiawassee, Georgia.

Okay.

Dr. Solomon.

Yeah.

So when we got Nicole on an even kill, then I kind of raised my hand and said, well, by the way, I've been getting migraines every month for about 36 hours. And she tried everything, acupuncture, everything, with me trying to get rid of my migraines. And even if I had one come on on a weekend, she'd come by the house, stick me, try to do all kinds of acupuncture, ear points, everything. And she finally just said, I can't help you with this. This is beyond my scope. She goes, but I know a doctor who is into some really different new technology, and he could probably do something for you. Gotcha. And his doctor's name was Dr. Bart Flick. So he came over to her practice one day because they had. They had. They were involved in a couple of angles with healing. And he sat down with me, and we discussed the situation, and he pretty much just nodded his head. He goes, you know, like it was routine for him. And he goes, What I'm going to do is I'm going to. Gonna do a. For lack of better terminology, he said, we're gonna do a scan your brain and I'm gonna put this device on you and download the information to computer.

It was like the electrodes that you attached to your brain, like.

Yeah. Kind of a halo on me.

Okay.

Back then.

Yeah. Not the ecg. It's the. All the brain doctors are leaping through the podcast right now, screaming on the electroencephalophogram. I think it's the eeg.

It's exactly what it was. Yeah. And they discovered what was creating my migraines. And they had a technology they were treating patients with for migraines. And, you know, he says here, oddly enough, was $500 for this technology. He goes, if it helps you out, you can pay me $500.

Is it $500 for a device or just 500 for the device?

For the device. He goes, you know, if it helps you out, you know, it was a gentleman's handshake kind of deal.

Right.

Because the trust factor was. Dr. Solomon. Yeah, he trusted me. I trusted him, of course. So he said, if it helps you out, you know, 500. If it doesn't, you just give it back to me. Yeah. The very first time I put it on, it was a device that you wear on your brachial plexus. Just like the sleep technology.

Right.

And my migraines are basically gone, dude. And I was so. I mean, I've been getting migraines for three or four years. Yeah. You know, so you're wearing it when.

You were sleeping or. This is a 24 hour on. When the migraines came around.

This is a 24 hour device.

We haven't talked about this before, but I had no clue you could use this thing for migraines. Like this type of technology. Migraines. Really?

That's one of the technologies we have waiting, too.

Interesting. Okay, so you. You figured out that this thing could get rid of your migraines.

It did.

You were just wearing a 24 7.

Yeah. You just take it off and when you get in the shower, when you're going to get in the water or whatever.

Well, I use it. I mean, I use this. This SR1. And when you push it, it only stays on for 22 minutes. So just like push it when you felt the migraine coming on?

No, it had no on off button. Well, it had an on button, rather. Excuse me. But it didn't time out. This one stayed on 24 hours. The battery Lasted about a month in this one. It was the same size, basically the same technologies. The SR1, because it's the same doctors now. But, you know, this got rid of my migraines. This is my first introduction to pimp. This is back in 2000, Pam being the.

The PEMF.

Yes.

I just like to say this because it makes me sound smart. The Pulse Electromagnetic Field Therapy.

You look smart.

Say times fast. I know. I. I always look smart. Talking about. It's my head of hair. And by the way, like, we were talking. We were talking a lot about genetic testing the other day. And if you're listening in, I. I just recently got my jeans tested. And I have the gene that ensures that you never go bald. So I will always have this hair. Those of you who give me a hard time about walking around with my shirt off and my hair sticking out all over the place, that's not going away anytime soon.

No. Jealous again. Stress too on me.

The PEMF, you're using it for migraines, and Dr. Solomon had hooked you up with this thing. You're wearing the device, and then what happens?

She hooked me up with Dr. Bart Flick. And then, you know, he gave me advice. Well, he got my $500, I'll tell you that, because it only took a month to click off. And when my migraine cycle came in, it was literally just a phantom of the migraine. I could kind of feel it coming on, but it never put me in that pain threshold that migraines do. That got my attention. Yeah. So, you know, I paid in the $500 gladly. So we stayed in touch. He did follow ups with me and. Great guy. So six months goes by, I'm still migraine free. You know, literally there was a register in my body that it was coming on, but, yeah, there was literally aura. Yeah. And that slowly went away. Yeah. You know, after six months, I didn't even have it just. It was. I was so used to not having them, I didn't pay attention to the calendar. It was just. It was amazing. You know, it was all electrotherapeutics that got my attention.

Right.

So as I stayed in touch with him and he really got to trust me, he said, well, let me tell you what we're working on now. Right. And that was the sleep technology.

Right.

And they'd been working on that for a few years.

And it was very similar to what you'd been using for migraines, with some.

Twists at that point. The technology was so complicated, you know, I can't give away Too many programmable secrets. But it was a Halo device you wore that had several points.

But that wasn't what you were wearing for your migraine. Migraine was just this little device over your collarbone, Correct. Okay.

That was just a small device. It looks like the sleep device we have now.

Okay.

You know, and I wore that 24 hours a day. Just took it off, like I said, when I took a shower, et cetera.

And I'll put a picture of this device, like what it looks like. For those of you wondering, if you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com deepsleep you can take a look at it. But I mean, it's tiny. I'm holding it right here. It's like, actually, just so you know, I've got like a quarter size little piece of a chocolate bar right here. And it's because we're drinking wine and eating chocolate as we record, just for those of you who know. So I got this little piece of Belgian chocolate, and it's about the size of this little piece of Belgian chocolate. But this other device that they were working on for sleep was like a Halo device that you put over your head, Correct?

Originally it was. And I didn't care what it looked like. I just knew it would work. But anyway, my next thought was working on it. What do you mean you're working on it? He says, we're developing this technology right now. It's really raw. And I said, how can I get involved?

Because at this point, you're still wired to be an investor. Do you invest in companies?

Oh, yeah, I invest in companies I am deep rooted in. And I assisted people, startup companies and real estate. Had a commercial diving firm for 20 years. I was still diving. This is 2010. So I just said, how can I get involved? Because I really believed in these guys. And we all kind of talk the same language as far as our approach to life and approach to healing and helping people and getting involved in businesses and whatnot. I mean, six months, you get to really know somebody if you're, you know, side by side with them like that, you know. So he said, yeah, we'd like to actually like to get you involved, Michael. So we created a company, Somni Resonance, and spent two years. I was the investor for the company, you know, and it was he and Dr. Somni resident.

What does Somni mean?

It's because I took Latin. Has to do with sleep.

Okay.

And so they created Somni resonance around the sleep technology because they had other. They had another company involved with the migraine.

Okay, so you had to create like a whole new company just to target sleep.

Yeah, I became the investor for them. They got organized. Better organized. He and Dr. Frazier Lowry, he's the mastermind behind the frequencies.

Okay. Which we'll talk about in a second. Because they're different. People may have heard me talk before about the earth pulse and how I'll put this earth pulse magnet under my bed. I wanted to ask you about the difference here in a second, but continue, continue this story of this branching out into the sleep technology from the migraine.

I was impressed with pimff. I was impressed with what these guys were working on. They definitely had my confidence because they got rid of my migraines and I. I did everything. Try to get rid of my migraines. Probably damaged myself with meds trying to get rid of migraines, you know? Yeah. The inhibitors. And when you start feeling one. Come on. Atropine shot.

Yeah.

My eyes were never the same after that.

Yeah. Literally. No. I've had some clients who will just pop like 8 Ibuprofen when they feel like that aura, come on. I'm like, do you know what that's doing to your. Your gut and your liver?

But, you know, when you're having migraines like that, you'll make deals with the devil to just step back. I believe it. And say, well, maybe it won't be so bad next time. You know, you just. You're in the moment with it and it's. You get pretty desperate.

Yeah.

So, you know, these guys were like gods to me.

Yeah.

Because they could do this.

Were these MDs, or were they naturopaths?

Dr. Bart's an MD. Naturopath. But he's a surgeon.

He's an MD.

He's an MD. A surgeon. He's a pain. He's a burn wound healing specialist.

He's not like a quack.

No. He's got over 20 something patents, just different technologies. Yeah. And Fraser's. He's been involved in electric therapeutics for decades.

Yeah.

Smart guys.

He's an MD too.

He's a PhD.

Oh, he's a PhD.

He's a PhD.

He's a scientist. And this other guy's the medical guy.

You know, my motto is, if you want to be successful, surround yourself with people smarter than you. Yeah. These guys definitely had me on.

I almost went there. And I'm not saying this to brag, but I almost went that route. Like when I was. When I was. Before I got my master's degree at University of Idaho. I was on the cusp of applying to the MD PhD program at the University of Pennsylvania, Wharton. Like it was between that or being a personal trainer. And I took the whole personal trainer fitness route just because I was having a blast doing it. But that's what I was really interested in was the MD PhD route. Probably, I don't know. God has a reason for whichever route you go. So this is the route that I went. But yeah, I mean, full respect for that type of blend of science and medicine.

Well, you're helping people on a much broader scale than one at a time. I like it.

Cool. So we've got this connection with these doctors and the development of, of this device that eventually becomes what I'm holding in my hand. Now, this device that you just put over your collarbone. Now what I'm curious about here is first of all, it seems kind of woo woo that you'd put something over a specific section of your body. What you called earlier the brachial plexus.

Correct.

Can you explain what's going on? When I put this electromagnetic field on my brachial plexus, what's happening?

Well, it's emitting a frequency that mimics nature. The delta wave that the brain falls into when it's promoting sleep, when it's.

Trying to get the brain, your delta brain waves frequencies.

Right.

So when my deep sleep jumps from like whatever it was 34 minutes up to up to 2 hours and 22 minutes when I'm wearing this, it's because it's, it's causing a signal to travel up that nerve.

Well, it's basically. Yeah, it's basically reinstructing the brain to find that sleep pattern.

Right.

So the original placement for the device was on the forehead. And when we did beta test after we, after we reduced it down from a halo to a single device like you're holding there, the original placement, ground zero was on a third eye chakra.

Oh really?

Oh yeah.

Interesting.

Yeah. And I've actually advised some people around.

I've actually got a whole podcast coming up on Kundalini Yoga where we're talking about the third eye chakra and all that jazz. Because I, I got back from, from Kauai, Hawaii a couple weeks ago. We were doing a ton of like third eye chakra meditation. So you were originally going to target.

That area of the body that was ground zero.

Interesting.

But during beta testing, you know, people were like, this is kind of awkward, it actually sticking out. Yeah, it's kind of distracting sleeping with.

This device stuck on your forehead.

Yeah, yeah. So, okay, next best thing is to try to find a carrier, a nerve carrier, to take that frequency, that signal to the brain. So the brachial plexus and you have, you know, your bilateral location.

Right, Right or left?

Right.

Kind of like mid collarbone.

Right. So, okay, that's just as effective. It might be a little trickier to find than just putting it on your forehead, you know, but. Yeah, yeah.

So, well, I'll ask you about that. But by the way, again, if you're listening, like I put, I'll link to the original article I put because I took a bunch of photos of where you put the device and where I put the device. If you already own one or you're curious what it looks like. BenGreenfieldFitness.com DeepSleep, you can check out a photo of what we're talking about. We'll get more into placement here in a second. But you put this device over the brachial plexus, and it's basically sending a signal from the device that elicits a delta brainwave.

Correct.

In the brain, which is like your deep sleep relaxing.

That's your stage three and four sleep.

Yeah, yeah. So don't put this on, by the way, if you're trying to get ready to race a triathlon or something like that, you probably don't want to be in delta if you're.

No, it'll confuse the brain the night before.

Use it, but don't use it during.

So.

This leads me into one of the questions I wanted to ask you about these electromagnetic frequencies. One concern that I had when I got my hands on this thing, because I. I eschew putting like WI fi and Bluetooth and high signals on my body. Even like that Earth pulse P E M F device that I use, it's under the freaking mattress. Right? Like, it's deep underneath my body. How is this safe to put on your body? Like, when I look at the Earth pulse, for example, let's just use that as an example of a PEMF device. Very strong. Like, even, even the inventor of that device, Paul, who we had on the podcast, he's like, don't put it on your body, you know, for brief periods of time to like, work on an injury or like a stress fracture or something like that. What is the difference between this and. And any other PEMF device out there? Like, is this safe to slap on my body all night?

Yeah. Well, this. So why this device puts out about a half a gauze frequency strength.

Gauss is the gauss.

Gauss Correct.

I've always said gauss.

Case in point, Earth Pulse puts out 10,000 times that.

Okay, so this one's at. How much did you say?

Half a gauss.

Half a gauss. And then like another device would be like close to 10,000.

Yeah, like you mentioned the Earth pulse.

Yeah, right.

You know, it's a different application, not really a comparable technology, but there's like coils.

I've been at different biohacking conferences. There's another one. It's like a coil, you know, this one put around your. Put around. Is that similar? Like 10,000 plus.

I'm not, I'm sure, I'm not sure what their frequency runs at, but.

Well, I can tell you that it makes my leg twitch when I put it on.

Yeah, a lot of that stuff's powerful, but it has its application.

Well, for injuries, yeah, extremely powerful.

But for. For sleep and for.

Or for putting it directly on your body.

Yeah, you got to. We went in real light. It. It took, I think, I'm going to say, close to 10 years to develop this technology.

But it's a very mild PEMF signal, basically.

Absolutely. It puts out less juice than a watch does or your earbuds.

That's extremely low risk. I mean, that would be like somebody who's, for example, listening to, let's say, a white noise app with their phone on in airplane mode beside their bed. It's a signal that's similar to something.

Like that, lighter than that. And it's so low risk. That's exactly what the FDA classified as the lowest risk possible.

Do you feel it inside your head when you put it? Like, I. When I turn it on, I feel it. It's weird. It's hard to describe, but it's, you know, it stays on for 22 minutes when you turn it on. I get this feeling after about like five minutes or so inside my head. It's like not a ringing. I mean, it's not a bad feeling. It's like a. It's like a lull, like this giant gentleman wave sensation.

That's.

Have you gotten that?

Oh, yeah, that's the frequency.

It's freaky that you put some on your collarbone. You feel inside your head like that?

Yeah, that's. That's a good nerve. That's a good wave carrier. So because it communicates to the spinal cord and that goes to the brain. And what's your. What's your. I call it twilight. I can feel the device starting to work. I can feel the brain starting to entrain to it and It's a very low impact, very mild sensation. And that's what it's doing. It's just trying to create that delta wave. It is. It's creating a delta wave in the brain, and the brain will entrain to that and then kick in its normal sleep response.

That's a word that gets thrown out a lot in this whole, like, pemf. And if you're listening and you haven't used PEMF before, like, whether it's the earth pulse, or there's this guy named Dr. Pollock who I've talked with at some health conferences, and he has a bunch of, like, PEMF devices on his website. And a lot of folks who you talk to, they use this word entrain. They even use that word with binaural beats, right, where you put one earbud in your right ear and one earbud in your left ear, what that means. And I've found this to be true for many of these sleep devices, like binaural beats or like an earth pulse, or like this. Like, you use it for a week or two before you really start to feel the results kick in. Like, that's what I've found is that it takes a while for your brain to almost become accustomed to it or to begin to respond to it.

It depends on the person, the situation. Everybody's so different. I've had customers buy a device, struggle with it the first night, the next night, boom, they're in the zone with it. I've had other customers. It takes up to three weeks to really get. Whatever is the issue causing the sleep deprivation or the sleep interruption to really start turning a corner, because the brain, for a lack of better terminology, is just stubborn.

I think part of it, too, is you just have to get used. Like, for me, like, minor obese. You just got to use to have something in your ears or with this, you have to get used when you're sleeping. And I'm a stomach sleeper, slash side sleeper. I sleep with a pillow between my knees, a little bit kind of on my side. So I put this. Because I usually sleep on my right side. So I put it on my right collarbone. And I found it works on my left or my right collarbone, but I put on my right collarbone, and it's almost like the. And the way it works is there's like this little adhesive sticker that comes along with it that you slap on the back of there and then you put it on. I like to sleep with it on my right collarbone, and it's almost like the Mattress kind of, like, is touching the device and pushing it against my collarbone a little bit. And for me, that's perfect. I can sleep all night like that, and I don't even notice that I'm wearing the thing.

Nice. Yeah.

But I can see how for a certain period of time, right. You're like, oh, I got this thing on. I gotta get used to it.

That's. You know, there's customers out there that have anxiety, and the device can make them a little more anxious at first.

There's nobody who listens to this podcast who has anxiety. We don't have any Type A. Roger that. Yeah, no, I know. You were actually telling me that, like, so I wrote that original article on the SR1, and you started to get inundated with all these people who were, like, triathletes and marathoners and Spartan racers and CEOs and, like, total type A folks. Because a lot of, you know, I help a lot of people with adrenal fatigue and anxiety, and a lot of them listen to my podcast on sleep and used. I know you started to get hit with a ton of questions from those folks.

Purchase. A lot of people purchase devices looking for that immediate gratification. Okay, I've got adrenal fatigue, I've got anxiety, and I want to sleep. Because a lot of people would sleep three hours, and then after that, they'd wake up every hour, every two hours.

Yeah.

And I know the device works, so I coached probably a dozen people.

What. Like, how do you. How do you coach people who have. Let's say you're. Let's say you're Type A, you have anxiety, or maybe you're working your way out of overtraining or adrenal fatigue, and you put this device on and, you know, if somebody calls you, let's say. And says, what.

What.

What the heck's going on? You know, how's. How's it not working? What do you tell them?

I said, well, I. First, I get their history from them. You know, they'll. They'll email me. They'll reach out through the website. I'll suggest we get on the phone and just get in a call and just discuss it, which I know you've.

Been doing, because when we've been here, like, you're so busy. Yeah. We were talking earlier. We got to get you a customer service.

Probably spend. At some point, probably spend three hours a day.

If you're listening in and you. You have any interest in pulsed electromagnetic field therapy? Are you on one of these things? Contact Michael, because He's like making all, you're making all these phone calls, all these people on this thing and what are you telling them?

Well, you kind of get their history. It's all very similar, you know, really over trained, under recovered.

Right.

You know, and the body response to that is anxiety. You know, it's part of, part of.

Adrenal fatigue system, fight or flight.

My wife went through it because hers was triggered. You know, hers has created just too much pain for too long, you know, So I kind of, I understand that and I understand what she went through as far as dealing with anxiety. And it's a mental game too. And the thing I discovered about the human body is it doesn't know the difference between a thought or an actual event. The body's going to respond to what the brain's feeding it, what the mind is feeding it. And a lot of people who have anxiety based on adrenal fatigue and stress, if they're laying there even thinking remotely about anything stressful or something with work, the body's gonna respond to it like it's actually happening to it. And then you're not going to sleep.

So what do you tell them?

I bring that to the table for discussion and get them to acknowledge it, you know, based on their own experiences. They acknowledge it. They go, oh yeah, that's me. That's what I do. You know, big business, man. We've had Fortune 500 corporate guys, man. I can't sleep. I wake up after three hours and my mind just clicks on. I cannot fall back asleep, you know.

And that happens to me. Three, three or four am I, I.

Found in my 20 year dive career in four and a half hours.

Yeah, no, dude, I love it because now I just push the button. Like I wake up at 3:00am, I just like, boom, push the button and it's on. And I go and I, you know, I used to talk a lot and maybe this works for folks like I used to talk about like gamma aminobutyric acid or gaba. It's an inhibitory neurotransmitter that helps your brain to produce delta waves like that. That's what it does. And your brain can produce it. And we've had folks like Dr. Kirk Parsley, who's a sleep expert who works with a lot of Navy seals. He's created a really bioabsorbable form of GABA that passes the blood brain barrier. And most gamma aminobutyric acid won't pass the blood brain barrier and it causes that neural inhibition. And what I was doing For a while was keeping one packet of that next to my bedside. And when I would wake up at 3 or 4am I'd take Gaba. Before that, I was using passion flower, which is. It's a little less powerful than the molecule that he created. But passionflower tincture or passionflower extract induces an endogenous gaba dump, basically to help put you back to sleep. But I also. I don't like to pile a bunch of supplements next to my bed before I go to sleep. And I also find that this tends to. Like I mentioned, I feel it inside my head. Right. It shoves me into that zone more quickly.

Well, you're very aware of your body, you know, when anything's going on.

I've been guinea pigging myself for so.

You know, every little anything, meticulous little response, change, anything. So what you're sensing is the brain engaging the delta wave. And although it is natural, it's a different avenue for you to achieve sleep. So you pick up on it. And what we're finding with some people with anxiety, as soon as they realize something different's going on, they get anxiety over that and they wake back up.

Right.

I've got back on the phone with people the next day, and I'm like, okay, you know, when you. This is what's going on. The signals get into your brain and your brain's trying to train to it, but when you start thinking about it and engaging it, you're just. Your body's waking up. Yeah. So just kind of welcome it, trust it. You know, that's the device sending the signal. The signal's harmless.

I even like. Like when I first started using it, I would just use like, sleep supplements. Right. Like the sleep cocktail, or I'll use like THC or CBD sometimes. And I would use that to shut down some of the anxiety or even shut down my brain sense of, oh, you're wearing something different tonight when you go to sleep. You could. I mean, you could totally use better living through science, you know, throw some, like, throw some cannabidiol or cbd and throw some melatonin or magnesium in until your body kind of like overcomes that feeling that you're wearing some kind of a device.

That's interesting you said that, because there's users out there or customers out there doing exactly that.

And even in Canada, you can combine it with something. Now, what about people who are on like, sleep meds, right? Like Ambien or Valium or some kind of benzodiazepine or something like that. My understanding. And I had a podcast with Dr. Parsley about this where we talked about how that it's like hitting yourself over the head with a hammer before you go to sleep at night. Meaning that it shuts down the neocortex, which makes you aware of your surroundings and causes you to fall asleep, but you never get into a deep sleep cycle. What happens if you combine this with something like that? Should you combine this with something like that? Like for people who are listening, who are on sleep meds, can they use this device? Should they stop the sleep meds? How does that work?

Well, that's one of the questions and answers on our Q and A page on the website. And what we suggest is work with your physician who prescribed it because of prescriptions. But this technology is new to a lot of physicians out there also. But we suggest maintaining your current regimen and using the device in conjunction with it. Now, physicians that are implementing this technology with their patients, they'll step them down. If they're doing 12.5 milligram sleep aids, they'll step them down to 10 milligram for two weeks. Then after two weeks they'll step them down to 5 milligram.

Yeah.

Using the device. So they get the brain used to falling back asleep the natural way through the device and then after, you know, so it call a four week window and it's. Everybody varies. They step off.

It takes about four weeks to taper off safe.

You don't want to shock and awe your body with.

No. I tried to do that once and it messed me up. So I used to do it like a ton of international trial. I still do do a lot of international travel, but before I realized what benzodiazepines, for example, due to that, that, that neocortex and how they. You never get into a deep sleep cycle. I would take it when I was like on an airplane flight to Thailand, right. And then I'd take another one when I got to Thailand. And by the time I got back from the U.S. you know, maybe I'd popped like five or six of them, right? And that was exactly what I did. Like I'd take about three quarter for a few days and then I'd take half for a few days and then I'd do a quarter for a few days. Then I'd get myself down to a tiny little bit and wean myself off. And then, you know, six months later when I do another big international trip, I'd have to redo that. I did that for like a year and a Half before I. Before I really started to dig in and study it. Because I just thought, you know, Valium, I travel over to Asia. I used to. I used to get Valium and Viagra in Asia before I discovered like natural sleep aids and like nitric oxide precursors like L arginine and stuff like that.

Pretty hardcore.

I'd just stock up when I was over there, you know, And I don't think I've even talked about this too much on a podcast, but. And now I found out Viagra is banned by the World Anti Doping Association. Valium destroys your deep sleep cycles. I don't touch that stuff anymore. But, yeah, it's pretty crazy. I actually have. I have some rapid fire questions for you about this device too. So I want to jump into that. Okay. So my first question is, I've been using it for naps. I take a nap like almost like one 1:30pm rolls around and if I don't have a cup of coffee or something like that, I'm just down for a nap. It's just the way I roll. But I've been putting this on and it helps me fall asleep. Like I mentioned, sleep latency. Right. So I can nap just fine without it. But if I'm taking a 40 minute nap and I spend 15 minutes of that trying to fall asleep versus 7, 8 fewer minutes, I'm asleep, going into a delta deep sleep. Is that okay to use for naps? I mean, what have you found as far as PEMF and napping?

Well, textbook is allow 90 minutes for a nap.

But our world, yeah, it's not going to happen.

Our world doesn't allow for 90 minutes for a nap.

I've heard that too. I'm just like, no, whoever wrote that is not. I know Winston Churchill. I read his biography. He would take like two hour naps in the middle of the day.

But since we're heavily regulated by the FDA and we went through ul, we've got to kind of toe the line on our statements. And all our statements on the website have been approved or been reviewed by the fda.

Yeah.

So, you know, we got to stick with that. But what the data is showing, technically a sleep cycle lasts anywhere from 80 minutes to 120 minutes.

Right.

That's full five sleeps.

And you're supposed to go through. I had a podcast with a guy named Dr. Nick Littlehales. And if you're listening and don't take furious notes, I'm keeping all the notes for you@BenGreenfieldFitness.com deepsleep and I'll link to this podcast I was talking about with Kirk Parsley and this one I just mentioned with Nick Littlehales. But he says five 90 minute sleep cycles per 24 hour period. And he says even with the pro athletes he works with who travel a lot, all he focuses on is 35. This may sound a little anal. 3590 minute sleep cycles during a seven day period. So as long as you hit that whatever, if you're doing three overnight and then two in the afternoon or whatever works. But in terms of napping, have you found the data to show that it's okay to put on for like let's say a 30 or 40 minute nap in the mid afternoon?

It is because Product review. If since the device is emitting the Delta wave, you're speeding through stage one and two typical, like I said, a typical sleep cycle is 80 minutes to 120 minutes. But since you're basically expediting through stage one and two and going to three and four delta wave state, then you're carving out maybe 20, 30 minutes of sleep stage. So you take an 80 minute sleep cycle, take out 30 minutes, now you're down to 50. The quality of sleep in a Delta state and everybody's different. So getting into REM sleep, a lot of people don't get into REM sleep when they nap. They just get that Delta state, the.

Rapid eye movement sleep, which is stage four, five.

Okay, so using the device you go straight into three and four and a lot of people will reach stage five during a nap period. So your naps will be productive, you know. But we say allow for 90 minutes. But the data's showing customer reviews, product reviews are showing a 20, 30, 40 minute nap. I use the device, I take naps sometimes when I've got to burn it late, you know, traveling or whatever. A 20 minute nap with a device, 20, 30 minutes is. I wake up feeling like, no, for.

Me, I haven't used it. Like I mentioned, I've used it on airplanes. I was actually right before I came up here, I was coming back from Hawaii. Like I mentioned, I left it on the Alaska Airlines flight and I was freaking out because I'm like, man, I'm going to BC to see Michael. He's going to see me roll in without my Delta sleeper and think I'm a complete hypocrite. Talking to him about, I've been using this device and choke, but Alaska Airlines sent it back. But yeah, I've been using it on airplanes and especially for long flights. It's amazing. Which leads me to my next question. Long flight or long sleep cycle? I wake up and I push that button again. Is that appropriate? Is that recommended? Should I just be pushing it once right before I go to bed at night? Or is that okay for me to push it again if I wake up?

You can reactivate the device as many times as required.

How come it just goes on for 22 minutes?

Because once it lulls you into that stage of sleep, it doesn't need to keep promoting the brain.

So once your brain, once your brain's there, it stays there and it doesn't need that, the training wheels anymore.

Right. And if you know, like me, when I wake up at three in the morning, I'll be, I'll hit that five hour window of sleep, five or six. I wake up, I'm pretty awake because I've found it, you know, for the last 20, 25 years, I've been sleeping four and a half, five hours a night. I always just thought I was more superhuman than others and I could just take that, Lord knows what kind of tasks I took on my body. But now if I don't get eight hours sleep, I feel it because I understand now. I know what it's like. And I don't take a lot of supplements. I don't drink coffee during the day. I just.

Which is actually pretty amazing. I've noticed that you're not drinking coffee during the day and you're out freaking saddling up horses. I think you were up at 5 o' clock this morning while I was still asleep. You were building fences and I'm jealous. Mending a bridge over a pond. I kind of felt like a wuss when I woke up this morning. I think you were. By the time I actually even stumbled out to the outhouse to use the restroom, you were like swinging a sledgehammer on a fence and I hadn't even done a single jumping jack. So kudos.

Oh, thank you.

Okay, another question, and this is a big one, placement of the device. How precise do you need to be? Because I used to dissect cadavers at University of Idaho when I was going to school. They're like, I know where the brachial plexus is. I can dig into it with my finger, find it, slap it over there and I'm good to go. I know it's kind of like that tender spot, right? Like under kind of the mid collarbone as you get close to the outside of the shoulder.

Right.

What if people don't know that though? Like how, how close can they get what are your recommendations as far as learning how to really put it in the right spot and does it matter left or right?

What we're finding is people have a favorite side, left or right. You just got to experiment. You know, depending on the severity of what's causing or the source of what's causing sleep issues, you know, using it for general overall wellness, you know, that's, that is, that's not as specific probably required place in it as somebody who's an insomniac and just maybe gets two hours sleep and they can't fall back asleep. They've got to get right spot on in order to get that full frequency emitting up the, the nerve bundle.

So it, so if someone is not feeling that, that it works that well, you have. Well I actually have one spot. So I published that original article and I'll link to it at BenGreenfieldFitness.com deepsleep if you read that article when I first published it, since then I've published two updates. I published like a four full kind of like anatomical breakdown and photograph of the brachial plexus, where it is, how it works and where to put the device. But is there anything else you tell people if you get on the phone with them as far as like how to properly find it versus just photographs?

Might sound a little slow to respond because I'm just replaying so many different customer testimonies and conversations I've had with people trying to find the common denominator to why there might be difficulty locating the brachial plexus. And I think it has to do with just the, the intensity of what's causing the issue with the user. Just experiment with it. I've, you know that the go to spot on the third eye shocker on the forehead, we don't really promote that because it works so well on a brachial plexus, but you could put it there on your forehead. Yeah. And I've had for instance Megan, the model on the website, you know, she tried to use it the first night on brachial plugs. She couldn't find it and she just tapped out, went to her normal method of sleep and reached out to me the next day. I said, well you may have to experiment a little bit because she, you know, she used over the counter meds for 12 years. Oh wow, that's Megan. And she has no problem with me sharing this story, you know. So the next day we got on the phone, which I've done with so many people, and I said, well, if you go, you know, tonight, you can't find a brachial plexus. Just lay it on your forehead. Don't even use an adhesive. Just lay it there, there. And she did. And after the second activation, she was out. She slept eight hours.

I'm just gonna try it just for fun on that area. Okay. Another question, kids. What if you have a kid or an adolescent or, I don't know, let's say a baby who has trouble falling asleep. Where do you go with kids? I know you got to be careful with what you say with the FDA and all that jazz.

Well, that's a gray area because the brain's developing in children, and we don't really know what the impact of even this benign frequency would have on brain development with children, young adults. So we recommend that you have to be at least 18 to try the device, but under physician's care. You know, just consult with your physician on that one.

Okay, gotcha.

You know, because I do get emails.

My kids, you've seen them, they go to bed and they just. They hit the sack hard and they're out. So. Okay. And that also has to do, by the way, if you're listening, screen time. My kids get very little screen time before bed. And they've even got blue light blocking glasses that my kids wear if they're watching movies or anything like that at night. They've. They've got their own little set that I got them off, off Amazon. So that's another.

They're going to be ahead of the curve. No doubt. A lot of people put their kids to bed by tv.

Yeah.

And I'm not here to judge.

I was reading in Reader's Digest last week, the new, brand new Reader's Digest, and it's written by a sleep doctor. And some of this stuff was. Was interesting. Like, he talks about, Gosh, I'm blanking on some of the stuff. But he recommends to his patients to fall asleep in front of the TV if you have trouble sleeping. And my teeth were gnashing as I read that. I'm like, and because you shut down melatonin production, you might fall asleep, but kind of like Valium or Ambien, you don't actually get as far into your deep sleep cycle. So shame on the doctor that wrote that.

Well, if you're listening, take 10 seconds and say, that's how Nicole used to fall asleep every night we went to bed. I. I would just say, please at least turn the TV down.

Yeah.

You know, because that's what she knew that's what relaxed her to sleep. And she's always had sleep problems since I've met her. She's a device user and she gets nine, 10 hours sleep at night now.

Yeah.

And no TV? No.

I'm getting nervous because I'm doing like eight hours and 50 minutes now. I'm getting. I have to find that fine line between productivity in the morning and sleeping too long. Because the problem is like if I wake up at 5:30 and I want to do the whole like Navy Seal, get out of bed, get more done before 7am that's my prayer. The world does before they're up. But if I hit it at 5:30, then I fall asleep till like 7:30. So I have to be careful. Sometimes, like I'm tempted to push the button and I don't because I know I have to, I have to get up.

I've been late for a couple of meetings that way.

How long does the battery last? I changed mine out with a screwdriver and it was really easy. The batteries were like a few bucks off Amazon, but you told me, I don't recall. How long will this thing actually go? As far as battery life under normal.

Use being, you know, a couple activations a night, it should last six to eight weeks.

Okay, gotcha.

You know, if it, you know, if you're using it a lot, you know, a month. But we have had a battery or two get by. You know, we test everything, we put new batteries in, we send them out. I've had customers go two weeks with no results and finally reach out to me and the first thing I suggest is just change the battery first and try that. And that's remedied the issue.

Gotcha. And there's a little, little tiny green light that goes on.

Just because it's blinking doesn't mean it's working, because the power really. Yeah, that's what we found.

Okay, so if that, if that little green light goes on on the device, sometimes it's not working.

It's.

If you haven't changed the battery out.

There'S a. Yeah, correct. That's what we're finding. There's enough power in there to run the blinking light, but it's not, it's not allowing the device to function 100%.

Okay, so how often again on the battery?

Six to eight weeks is normal.

Okay.

Generally if you know, once you use a device for a while, you're pretty accustomed to how it works.

Because I know the first time I got it, I think I was close to eight weeks and I started Noticing I wasn't getting that feeling inside my head, but the green light was on.

There you go.

And that can feel. Okay, that makes sense now. That makes sense.

You get pretty keen to the effectiveness of it.

You know, people listen in Australia and the uk, places like that, can they get one? Is it legal? Like, how does that work as well far shipping to other countries?

Well, we're working with a lot of different customs offices right now in different countries. A couple of weeks ago, maybe three weeks ago, we got cleared, we got the go ahead from Australia customs that we could ship to the customers as long as they use it for personal use and not resell.

Okay.

And you know, like Germany, you know, it's getting kind of tangled up with German customs, you know, they've got, they're a little bit more stringent on what they, you know, how they qualify stuff coming in. We're talking to Japan right now, talking to the uk, talking to Belgium. So we're hoping to, you know, at least clear ability to ship there. Okay, we'll update on the website when we can.

Yeah, what I've found, like with versus cannabidiol. Right. Because I sell CBD on my website. Even some, some customs, they say they won't import it. And I have customers all over the world ordering it with no issues. But I always tell them, I'm like, it might make it, it might not. But, you know, I tell people take their chances. Technically, you know, we ship USA and Canada, but so far nobody's had any issues.

But so before we, yeah, we were.

I, I, the other recommendation I give folks is just get it shipped to a friend in the US or in Canada and then have them send it to you.

Right.

You know, in a little care package. Okay, so a few other questions that I have here. Post traumatic stress disorder, you mentioned to me something about PTSD and the effectiveness on PTSD or something in terms of PMF and ptsd. What's the deal with that? Does it work? Should they avoid it? How's that work?

PTSD is kind of a dark area of the brain in regards to what scientists and doctors are figuring out how to treat PTSD with pimp. The device will assist people with PTSD to go to sleep, but what happens when they're in that deeper sleep is an entire different matter. That's where the night terrors and a lot of the triggers are when they achieve deep sleep. That's why PTSD patients or people suffering from PTSD have a difficult time going to sleep. So we don't promote the device for ptsd, but we suggest using it as part of a regimen under doctor's care because. Assisting them to go to sleep. Yeah, it's a gray area and there's.

Recent, again, one of those things where you just gotta say, ask your doc to cover your body.

Yeah, because we're not promoting the device for PTSD because there's a lot going on with that. I mean, assisting the patient to get to sleep. Yes, but what happens when they're in that place?

I'm allowed to say it because I'm not a doctor, man. That's the benefits of me not going to medical school. I'd use it if I had pts. I'm just saying. So that's, that's something that, that I would certainly look into if I were in the military or I was someone with ptsd. I know you can't say that, but I can. Another question that I have is there's this, this idea, especially with these more powerful devices. And I get this question all the time. Like, like the Earth pulse, for example. I use that when I have had a really hard workout and I want to break out the big guns and just like get a bunch of PEMF underneath my mattress. You know, I'll take two magnets and put them underneath the torso, underneath the head. I'll use the, the North Pole side of that PEMF magnet. You know, again, like you mentioned 10, 000 Gauss versus the 0.005 that the, the delta.

10,000 times. Yeah, yeah.

Or 10,000 times power. And I'll use that, for example, on, on an area that's been injured, soft tissue or bone injuries. Both have good research showing that stronger frequency PEMF can help with them. There's some research to show that it can assist with the cell membrane activity and specifically oxygen and glucose and stuff like that moving in and out of mitochondria. And so when I'm beat up, when I'm jet lagged, when I have an injury, I'll pull up the big guns and I'll use that device and what I found for me personally, because I've gotten tons of questions on this in the comments section like whether I use it every day. I don't. I use it for two or three days after I've put my body through World War II, or I'll use it on a body part if it's injured. If I am in that scenario and I've got something like the Earth pulse underneath my bed, because let's say I've just Gotten back from Japan or I've just done an Ironman or something like that where I want to break out the big anti inflammatory guns on my body. Does it mess up the signal? If I have the SR1 on my collarbone and something like the earth pulse under the mattress, could you use both at once or.

Yes.

Should you not? Yes.

No. You. I don't see any conflict there. There's no data that shows any conflict there.

Okay, so you, so you could put this thing in your collarbone for like the weak PMF signal to send the signal to your brain. And then if you want like anti inflammatory action or something like that, you could put the, something like the earth pulse under the mattress or something like one of these, these coils, right? There's even like a. Have you heard of the Beamer? This mat? B. I think it's B E M E R And it's a new PMF like cot that you lay on that they're using for like full body injuries and stuff like that.

There's a lot of technology hitting the mainstream now.

EMF is all over the place. Like I, I go to biohacking conferences, right? Like London, Finland, Dave Asprey's conference in la. And there's like five or six booths that are all just pulsed electromagnetic field therapy. So I mean it is really interesting how many people are catching on to the power of this stuff. I own, you know, I own the earth poles, I own, I own now this SR1. I think it's a great tool to have in your toolbox. I mean, if you like to own nice things, these things make your life better. To me, the way I tell people, this is a good solid night of sleep to me before a big workday, it's worth 20 bucks. I'll pay 20 bucks for a good solid night of sleep. And so for me to spend whatever, 500, I mean in the case of your pulse, it's like several thousand dollars. It depends on how much you want to invest in your body. Right? Because over a year of sleep, 365 days of $20 a night, if that adds up to you having that much extra productivity and happiness, my opinion, it's worth it. I wanted to ask you, and now's the point where we don't want to sound like salesy or whatever, but I know you have, people can get this and if they don't like it, they can send it back. Is that the deal?

30 day money back guarantee. You know, it's usually know what's going on with the device within a Few days. I mean, some customers are that first night, some take two to three weeks. But you know, if you reach out to me and we got a case going, I got a file going on you, I've extended that warranty for customers just to keep trying, experiment. And then they hit that three, that three week window and things start happening. You know, I've had a couple of customers not get anything the first two nights and just get frustrated. Yeah. You know, and because they expect it to work like it works for other people. The thing about the device, like it's sidetracked just for a moment. It's a great barometer for discovering source of what your sleep issue is. You know, if you're not responding to this device, there's something going on.

Yeah.

It's not because the device doesn't work. You know, if you change the battery and all of a sudden works. Yeah, there was a bad battery. But physicians are using this as a, as a barometer to discover things with patients.

You know, I was shocked when you told me, like, how many doctors and stuff are using this with their patients.

Yes, it's.

It's a lot. And again, like, I'm totally cognizant. Like, I don't. If you're listening, I don't want this to sound like an infomercial or whatever, but I mean, like, I want to tell you guys about stuff that works because I know a lot of folks have trouble with sleep.

Well, originally last year, you know, we, we got cleared or classified by the FDA and we were selling only through physicians. They came back a couple months later and re evaluated and said it's classified as so low risk, lowest risk possible. You can go to the end user now. Which is why we created Delta Sleeper. Because we didn't want to outsource the lifeblood of this technology to a regular company that was just gonna carry it like any other product out there. We wanted to give it. I wanted to give it my own personal customer service touch and be able to be reachable to people and really kind of keep an eye on what was going on with.

Yeah.

With the end user side, you know, so. But through all this physicians, I have some physicians using it that don't think this device should be sold straight to the end user because sleep issues are so complex and everybody's so different that they feel that they should. Anybody using the device should have a complete workup.

I think that's bull. I'm a cowboy. I say slap it on. And I knew, you know, like, that's the way I rumble, though. Like, I just, I'd rather just, just try stuff out, you know, But I do a lot of. I do a lot of guinea pig. The guy who shoots coffee up is.

Well, you know. So you know how physicians are, though. They protect their own ground. And, you know, they're, they, you know, they really like their patients. They like helping. But, you know, somebody might get discouraged or get frustrated because they're not getting results. Well, there's a reason why you're not getting results and you got to dig a little deeper.

Yeah.

You know, and a physician helps you kind of check down the list. They're just. We have physicians discovering, like bipolar, you know, food intolerances.

Yeah.

You know, ocd.

Yeah. And I want to, I want to talk more too, in a future podcast that I'm going to do because I started off I was talking about sleep quantification. Right. And I've had a lot of people have issues with getting like this laboratory grade sleep equipment sent to their house, like the EEG stuff because it keeps them awake when they're wearing it. So I'll talk more about thisthis ring and stuff I've been using in future podcasts. And like I mentioned, I'm gonna work up a post where I show you guys some of this pretty shocking data on what this SR1 has done for me as far as sleep latency, sleep efficiency, deep sleep cycles, amount of time spent to sleep. Heart rate, like I mentioned, it's dropped three freaking beats. It's crazy. So my resting heart rate now wearing this is 36 beats per minute.

That's.

I think that technically means I'm gonna die or my thyroid fell out. No, but seriously, it's pretty crazy. It's very deep. So a couple other things. First of all, I think I smell dinner wafting. So we're off in a separate cabin, kind of like in Michael's guest cabin out about 30 yards from his ranch that he's kind of restored out here in the middle of nowhere. But I think I smell. So bison burgers.

We know it's in there. Stuffed peppers with bison meat. I think so.

So we are gonna have to wrap pretty soon, but I want to tell you guys a few things. First of all, money back guarantee on this, but we're also gonna toss you a 5% discount, which is because the, the retail this is a 499.99. Yeah. So 499, which in my opinion is a very, very good deal for something that's gonna help you to sleep. Well, the rest of your life, especially when you consider the batteries are like a few bucks to recharge the battery every six to eight weeks. The discount code you can use to save another 5%, which obviously knocks, you know, another 20, 25 bucks off for you is green fit 10. Green fit 10. I know that's tough to remember, but I'll put a link in the show notes. And the show notes are at BenGreenfieldFitness.com DeepSleep that's BenGreenfieldFitness.com deepsleep I can tell you from personal experience that Michael's customer service is freaking awesome. Even though. I'm serious, man, you got to get some help because I see how hard you work helping people out with this stuff. So.

Labor of love.

Yeah. So there you go. If you're listening in, contact me. If you want a job in customer service and you like this kind of sleep hacking stuff, I should connect you with Michael because he needs some help so we can spend more time shoeing horses and fishing. So anyways, though, BenGreenfulFitness.com DeepSleep is where you can access this and also where you can leave questions, comments, feedback about anything that Michael and I have talked about in today's show. And Michael, first of all, thank you for being who you are and for actually caring. Sometimes when I meet somebody who sells stuff to help people, they're in it for the money.

Oh, yeah.

And I know you're not.

No.

I've met your wife, I've met your kids. I've seen the love that you have and the whole reason you got into this in the first place. So kudos for creating actually helps people.

That's the campaign. Thank you.

Yeah. And then second, you ready to go punish some peppers with bison?

I'm ready.

Let's do it, man. Thanks for coming on the show.

Awesome. Thank you.

All right, folks, this is Ben Greenfield and Michael Larries from BenGreenfieldFitness.com signing out.

You've been listening to the Ben Greenfield fitness podcast. Go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com for even more cutting edge fitness and performance advice.