How To Figure Out What To Eat Based On What Your Ancestors Ate & How To Heal Your Immune System Using An Ancestral Diet Approach.

On this episode of the Ben Greenfield.

Fitness Podcast, give yourself permission to accept that those parts of your life are going to be with you for your life. You don't get over addiction, you learn to live with it. You don't get over ptsd, you learn to live with it. High fives all around. Why stop now? Because for the rest of your life, the rest of your life is determined by how close your health is to where your health was.

Health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show. Yo, what's up? It's Ben Greenfield and I have Michael Smith on the show today. Fantastic physician. He's this blend of east meets West Chinese tradition, medicine and modern medicine, ancestral wisdom. Really great guy. So he's got some wisdom to share with us today on one of these special solo so two parters where I fill you in on some cool ancestral dietary concepts. Then he's going to jump in and blow your mind. Listen to this one at regular speed because he's a smart guy and gets into the weeds on stuff. So this is not a four time speed podcast for sure. So my guest on today's show is one of those guys who's kind of a diamond in the rough. A lot of people don't know about him, but I am incredibly impressed with this cat's body of knowledge. He's been on the show before. His name is Dr. Michael Smith and he first appeared on my show in an episode called Brace Yourself, Cupping, urine drinking, dream interpretation, open heart surgery, using acupuncture as anesthesia, and much more. So who is this guy? He hails from the first nations in Canada where he grew up on the diet of his indigenous ancestors, eating wild organ meats from the animals he hunted and feasting from the wild salmon that he caught. There he learned a ton of medicine traditions and the medicine wheel of the first nations people. He studied martial arts, he taught Canadian military self defense techniques, and along the way his martial arts teacher taught him what's called classic Oriental science or traditional Chinese medicine. So as you can imagine, he's kind of this mashup of Chinese traditional medicine and ancestral badassery. His practice is actually up in Nelson, B.C. and I'm going to link to his website, his practice if you want to go there and see him, all of his books, etc. If you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com MichaelSmith that's BenGreenfieldFitness.com MicheleSmith so at his practice now he combines functional medicine and Evolutionary nutrition. With this ancient wisdom and vast experience of traditional Chinese medicine. What he specializes in and what he's going to teach us about today is managing chronic autoimmune conditions. And he himself has Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis that he manages using what he's going to teach you today, but chronic autoimmune conditions using his different pillars and protocols and his very unique approach to healing autoimmune disease. So I really hope you enjoyed this, this solo sode from Michael. Now, before we jump in with Michael, I would like to address the topic of ancestral dieting. This is something that in my brand new book, which you can get@boundlessbook.com as in boundless boundlessbook.com I talk a lot about ancestral eating and ancestral dieting and I want to give you a little snippet from that book before we jump in with Michael. So ancestral dieting, of course, seems to have become quite sexy of late. And as we learn more about genetics and how diet is controlled by and impacts genetic expression, it seems to make sense that you should more precisely eat what your ancestors ate. After all, you inherited a set of genes that developed and adapted to specific environments and diets. And so to me, it seems pretty well worth maximizing that genetic potential. And in my book, I get into how I have a predominantly northern European ancestry, so that means I would benefit from eating plenty of fermented foods, meats, fish, eggs, berries and raw dairy, and not necessarily a large intake of citrus fruits or other foods my ancestors might not have encountered in their local habitat. If you're of Scandinavian origins, your ancestors had good access to fish rich in omega 3s and vitamin D. So you might likely need a diet higher in fish and vitamin D. And certain genes can also influence these decisions. So you're probably familiar with these MTHFR mutations, poor ability to methylate. And those mutations tend to cluster in regions and populations where your ancestors traditional diet was rich in folate. So in one study that looked at humans from 16 different regions around the world, Mexicans, Hispanics, Italians and Chinese were more likely than any many others to carry these MTHFR mutations that increased their need for dietary folate. So if you come from Chinese heritage or your grandparents migrated from Italy, or your dad or your mom was Hispanic, you should probably eat more folate rich foods like leafy greens and organ meats and pastured egg yolks. And you could just test@23andme.com or the ancestry website for DNA testing and find this stuff out. You could also look at something like the Amy one gen that codes for salivary amylase production. And salivary amylase digests starch and carbohydrates. So the more Amy 1 copies you have, the more salivary amylase you produce when you eat carbs. And the more copy numbers you have, the more likely it is your ancestors ate higher amounts of starch, and the more likely it is that you can handle a slightly higher carbohydrate intake because you digest those carbohydrates more completely in your mouth. And populations that are traditionally more agricultural, like Japanese and Continental Europeans, or populations that are high starch starch foragers, like the Hasda tribe in Tanzania, they've all been shown to possess these higher Amy 1 numbers compared to lower starch consuming populations. So if your ancestors came from a region they ate more carbs, you can likely thrive on good starches like sweet potatoes or yams, plantain, other roots and tubers, and some amounts of fruit and rice. And I'll give you one other example, the lactase persistence gene. So lactase is the enzyme that enables you to be able to digest lactose without getting gut distress or diarrhea, all the other mayhem that could happen in a state of lactose intolerance. So, as you could imagine, cultures that have not traditionally raised dairy livestock, so countries like Asia or Africa or really most of India, they rarely carry the lactase persistence gene. But if you're of European descent, you're probably lactose tolerant. And there's some really good books that would help you dive into this. So one book is written by the guest you're going to hear on today's show, Dr. Michael Smith. His is called you'd Ancestors Diet. Another one is called the jungle effect by Dr. Daphne Miller. And the Jungle Effect is really cool, too, because Dr. Miller traveled to all these different locations around the world and found in these locations where people were eating their ancestral diets, low incidence of diseases like diabetes or heart disease and depression and different forms of cancer. For example, on the island of Crete, they carry genes that would predispose them to heart disease. But their Mediterranean staples like olive oil and legumes and red wine and leafy green vegetables protect them from that cardiovascular disease manifesting. Another example would be Copper Canyon, Mexico, where they have genes that would predispose them to diabetes, but they're eating, like, beans and squash and cactus and cilantro and tomato and jicama and nuts and avocado and all these kind of lower glycemic index foods that ensure that that doesn't manifest. In Iceland, they should have high rates of depression and seasonal affective disorder. But they don't because of the high amounts of omega 3 fatty acids in a traditional Icelandic diet in Cameroon, West Africa, they should be getting, based on their genes, high amounts of colon cancer. And indeed they do when they're uprooted and say, living in southeastern United States. But in West Africa, the diet of collard greens and mustard greens and spinach and okra and fermented vegetables and other fiber rich foods protect them from that colon cancer manifesting. And one final example would be Okinawa, where they should have higher than normal rates of breast and prostate cancer. But due to the fermented soy sources like tempeh and miso, the high amounts of fish, the purple potatoes, et cetera, they're protected from those diseases manifesting. So if this stuff fascinates you, not only should you read my book, the new book boundless@boundlessbook.com, but also check out Dr. Michael Smith's book, you, Ancestors Diet. Check out the book the jungle effect by Dr. Daphne Miller, and also check out another really good book that flies under the radar. It's called 100 Million Years of Food by Stephen Lee. That's L E 100 Million Years of Food. And I will link to all of those books in the Show Notes for Today's show@BenGreenfieldFitness.com MichaelSmith so that all being said, I'm going to turn things over to Michael and I again. Everything he talks about will be in the show notes as well, and he's going to walk you through his fascinating approach to managing autoimmune conditions.

Hello, this is Dr. Michael Smith and welcome to my blog cast called the Ancestral Autoimmune Protocol. I am recording this for my colleague and friend Ben Greenfield, and you're probably finding this on BenGreenfieldFitness.com I'll be mentioning a couple of links and resources throughout the podcast, so you'll find them at BenGreenfieldFitness.com MichaelSmith in this blogcast, I'm going to be talking about the Ancestral Autoimmune Protocol, which is a diet and lifestyle protocol focused on the treatment of autoimmune disease, and it's sometimes also used for people with complex trauma and people with addiction. And I'll get into why in a bit. For context, it's worth mentioning that at present, one in five people in the developed world is living with an autoimmune disease. And it's also worth mentioning that when you look at the underlying physiology of a lot of other complex illnesses that are not considered autoimmune, deep on the inside of those processes, sometimes you do find an autoimmune component. And what's likely to happen in the next few years is that most things like cancer and cardiovascular disease and Alzheimer's and a few others will be put under the umbrella of autoimmune disease. If that happens, then essentially one in two people in the developed world will be walking around with an autoimmune condition. Yeah, that's actually the numbers. So for some more numbers, I've been in clinical practice for 25 years and focusing on autoimmunity the way that I do, about 80% of my patients get significant and improvement, if not reasonable amounts of relief following these kind of protocols. And that's 80% at the baseline. When people focus on deeper personal healing, really engaging in resolving childhood trauma and deeper aspects of their life and lifestyle besides their diagnosis, it gets up to 85 to 90% of people who get better. And that's not me trying to sell you some snake oil. That's just the averages across the developed world for people who are following these protocols and for clinicians who are advocating them and supporting their patients through the process. So as far as I'm concerned, that's almost a miracle that we're getting that much success against this complex, chronic, modern industrial illness, if you will. So for the next 30 minutes or so, I'm going to be covering about four things. One is my approach in clinical practice so that you know where I'm coming from and how I see things kind of from the inside out, so that the information you're going to learn during this podcast really makes sense to you. I want to give you about a 4 minute, 5 minute, metaphoric kind of cartoon around how autoimmunity actually happens inside your body and what's going on 20, 24, 7. Once you have that process activated in your life, then I want to review what is called the standard AIP or autoimmune protocol. Many, many people are accessing this information online and doing really well with it. So I want to start there, and I actually start most of my patients off in this way, primarily because there's so much information already out there and available for people that it gives them more confidence when they go online to look something up. And there's hundreds of people doing, doing the same thing. So I want to make sure that we cover that and that you're also aware of the basic kind of chemistry of why these diets are advocated in the way that they are. And then finally, I'll spend as much time as I can on the actual ancestral autoimmune protocol, and that's made up of what I call the four pillars and the four protocols. So we'll get into that in a few minutes. So, to start off, I just want to tell you a little bit about my approach to medicine. Again, I'm a frontline clinician. I've been doing this about 25 years. And most of my patients have autoimmune disease and. Or PTSD and. Or addiction. And I say the and or because the crossover of those three populations of people is incredibly important. I think when I meet autoimmune patients, it's about an 80, 85% chance they had childhood trauma. When I meet people suffering from addiction, it's about a 99% chance they had childhood trauma. When I meet people suffering from trauma, yeah, you guessed it, they probably had a lot of childhood trauma, as well as whatever other kind of trauma may have had impact on their lives, like car accidents and things like that. Obviously, you can have trauma because of something immediate and short term, but it's also quite common that people who experience something immediate like a car accident or go to war for a year or two, the way that they actually experience the trauma that happens, you know, in something that intense, is still informed a lot by the fact that if they were traumatized as a child, they are going to fit that experience into that world again. You don't have to have PTSD as a kid to have PTSD as an adult, but they combine into what we call complex ptsd, where you're not just dealing with a person who's had a very shocking experience, you know, or an accident or a bad childhood. You're dealing with a really complex mix of all of them. So when I'm focusing on the treatment of my patients with autoimmunity or trauma or addiction, I'm always focusing on all three with everybody in any way that it seems tangibly important. And when you get into the biochemistry, and we'll do a little bit of a geek out on that later, you're going to see that the biochemistry, the lab tests, and a lot of other tests that come back from patients are almost the same if they have an inflammatory autoimmune disease or if they have PTSD or if they're presently engaged in addiction. So I just want that. That to be clear in your mind that you don't have to have a diagnosis to have the body chemistry of these conditions. If you want to go deeper into the autoimmunity, trauma and addiction complex, I have a podcast on that and I'll ask Ben to put a link to that in the show notes for this show because again, it's for me pretty fascinating and it's actually helping a lot of people a lot more because you're treating the whole person, not just their diagnosis. So when I meet with patients and their primary concern is autoimmunity, my focus as a clinician is going to start with functional medicine, ancestral nutrition, and the vast wisdom and experience of traditional Chinese medicine. Because the more I focus on finding systems based understandings, root causes, and a focus on daily things like diet and lifestyle, autoimmune patients get better within weeks to months. Sometimes if there's a lot of pain and trouble sleeping, we'll do a bit of breath work as well. But for the most part, if I meet an autoimmune patient, it's clinical medicine, functional medicine, ancestor nutrition, maybe acupuncture and some Chinese herbs. When I'm working with people whose primary concern is trauma and or addiction, then we I work more in a model of somatic mindfulness, which is a trauma based approach to counseling, breathwork, bodywork, acupuncture or anything else that you can fit in into a way of resolving and reorienting your somatic self, your embodied memories through daily practice. It's nice to hope that someone else can come along and make our body memories change or but it's been my experience as a patient and as a doctor that a daily practice focusing in on the way you're holding into or holding on to a kind of trauma has a profound and almost immediate benefit for people. When I'm working with trauma and addiction, I also bring in things like qigong, meditation, mindfulness and the kind of transformational breath work that people do that tends to really break state and break certain subjective patterns of self belief and belief about the world. And that's kind of like taking little mini ayahuasca trips in a way. So that's my focus as a clinician. I'm also a patient. I have Crohn's disease, colitis, non specific connective tissue disorder, I do have complex PTSD and I have experienced addiction in the past. So I'm a good case study for my particular theory about health. And more importantly than that, I have have over two and a half decades of experience of trying to figure these things out through all of the practices that I now use in my clinical practice. So I'm my own guinea pig and I would actually trust my, like if I work with doctors in my. For my health, I would prefer to work with someone who's working out their own stuff with their own protocols that they're recommending to me, than someone who just got out of med school and has only read textbooks. That's just my opinion. I'm not suggesting that that's what anyone else should do, but I really don't recommend going to myopic people with complicated issues. So describing autoimmunity as a process is a little bit challenging because there's a lot going on. If you're new to the concept of autoimmunity, what basically is meant by that is that your immune system, in the sense of the inner army and police force, has decided that some of your tissues, some of your cells, perhaps even some receptor sites on some of your cells, are actually an invader. They're not you and someone should go in there and destroy them and, or at least cause inflammation and barriers around them. So a lot of people describe autoimmunity as, as a self allergy and that's somewhat approximate, but it also makes people feel naturally a little bit weird about themselves when for some reason they're allergic to their own body. So I don't really frame it that way and honestly, that's not really accurate. So for the next four or five minutes, I'm going to walk you through a cartoon. There's a version of this, it's about an hour long. There's a version of this that's about a half hour long. And then there's the version I'm going to try today that's hopefully about five minutes long. And I'm just going to ask you to focus on your imagination and the sort of silly pictures that I'm going to use because it's been my experience that complicated ideas make more sense when they're in a context you're familiar with and that there's a story and an emotional response. So I'll bring up a few of the, the medical bits, but this is going to be mostly a metaphor and a cartoon. So imagine, if you will, that you live in a house and your house is not in the best neighborhood. And, and you know, it's often that things don't go very well, say on the weekend. And one day a car explodes across the street and there's a big fire and all the sirens show up and when you look out the window, you see the fire truck, the ambulance, the police and the people from the news station, taking video of, you know, what's going on for the news. And a little bit of a knock, knock joke. But someone knocks on the door and it's the police, and they want to make sure that you live in the neighborhood, whether or not you saw anything and whether or not you may or may not be the bad guy. And if I was to turn the metaphor towards medicine, the police would be your T cells. And they're the ones who actually look for, identify, and attack things. The newscaster, video camera person. They're basically your B cells. And your B cells drop on a certain level is to identify and create markers or little tiny wanted posters for the things in your body that aren't you or that might be bad for you. Your ambulance is what we call phagocytes. And their job is to basically chomp up debris and dead bodies and, you know, clean up the mess in your neighborhood, depending on what went down. And then we have the firemen. And there's two sides to that one we call your innate immune system, which think of as fire hydrants. It's always there, dealing with inflammation if it has to. And then the present firemen, they're running around trying to figure out who caused the fire while they're putting the fire out. And that again, has to do with what we call your adaptive immunity. And keep in mind, there's always going to be those four different people, your T cells, B cells, phagocytes or macrophages, and an inflammatory response. So let's say that they put the fire out and everyone goes away, and a week goes. Goes by, and then there's still cars blowing up and there's still fires in the neighborhood. And, you know, it's been a week of pretty much Armageddon in your neighborhood. And then knock, knock, someone, you know comes to your door. And when you open the door, in the sense of a cell interacting with what's outside of the cell and interacting with your immune system. Since there's been a week of problems in your neighborhood, when you open the door now, you see a much more heavy, heavily armed group of police. You see people with police dogs. You could say the fireman is actually going to come into your house, move things around and put a new fire alarm in there so that it's more rapidly connected to the rest of the inflammatory part of your immune system or to the fire station, I guess. And again, the ambulances are running around cleaning up the mess from the last week of Armageddon in your neighborhood. So again, T cells and B Cells and phagocytes and methods, macrophages and a lot of inflammatory cascades. Because now it's been a week of whatever's going on in your body. I imagine you're. We're actually talking about a person who scratched their elbow in a jiu jitsu class and they got a bunch of somebody's sweat in there or something. And now it's been inflamed for a week. So let's say now it's a year later and there's still a pretty bad scene in your neighborhood or your elbow for a very long time. And now when someone knocks on the door, when your cell interacts with the immune system, when you open the door to see what's going on out there now you're going to see the SWAT team and there's going to be a sniper across the street, something we call a natural killer, killer cell. And you might even in the modern movie sense see little red laser beams on your chest because everyone's pointing something at you that's dangerous just on the off chance you're not supposed to be there. And again, the police are there to check your id. They're to make, they're there to make sure you are supposed to be in this crazy neighborhood that's got all of these problems. And they're going to have a harder and harder time doing that the longer this goes on. And this is actually due to a change in the cell surface or the surface structure of different parts of your cellular physiology. And I'm trying to keep this. But no, sensible enough. So what actually happens is a structure on the outside of your cell called Mch1 or the major histocompatibility complex 1, which regulates a specific protein pathway in your cells that help maintain the production of antigens that help your immune system recognize your cells as you or the people in the proverbial house as belonging to, in the neighborhood. Once your body can no longer produce these mch1 protein markers, your cops and your newscaster and everybody else trying to find out who the bad guy is has no evidence that you're still you, that you're supposed to, supposed to be in the neighborhood or from the clinical side of things, whether or not yourself, because one way we describe autoimmunity is, is a loss of self tolerance. And you recognize self tolerance through a few different attributes. But the last one that we usually lose is the MCH1 pathway. So you can say at this point, the cops are coming into your house, they're going to frisk you. So now the T cells are really, really making sure whether or not you have your mch1 pathway still available or not. Your B cells are now running around looking at pictures of you, pictures of your family. They're showing you pictures of anyone that looks anything like you. Because the B cell's job is to identify and create an auto antibody or a regular antibody to the bad guy. So there's all this, you know, self identification stuff going on and it gets much more complex with respect to your immune system and your thymus and bigger processes. But what's important to be aware of is that any system or tissue in your body that that's being overburdened or inflamed or infected will eventually lose self tolerance capacity and your immune system will now more or less attack it. And once your, your T cells and B cells can no longer be certain that you're you and you have lost self tolerance, then it's the snipers and what I call bounty hunter cells or memory B cells who are now swimming around your body looking for anything that looks, looks like the bad guy. If it's, you know, a certain kind of cartilage and you have enclosing spondylitis and it's really getting busy in your spine, but it goes after your knees, it might start going after any other cartilage in your body. There's lots of ways it can go. It's just really important in the sense of metaphor to have in your mind that this is very much like the way our society responds to an accident on the street. It, it's just that at a point of illness your immune system just goes after and attacks things. And unfortunately some of those things could be your neurons, your colon, your, your eyeball or anything else. So that's the quickest I think I've ever tried to make that come together in that way. There is a longer version of this. I think it'll actually be up in a couple of weeks. So not sure when this is going to be launched from Ben Greenfield's website, but if you do track down my website, which is integrative health detective.com you will be able to find a podcast on there. Probably it's going to be called Zombie Movies and Autoimmunity where I take this whole metaphor for about 45 minutes and get into a lot more detail. So if you like metaphors, check into that. If I was to say one last quick thing about that, Martial law is not a healthy status for any community and martial law is probably the best metaphor for autoimmunity. In the sense of a simple big picture. So the standard autoimmune protocol or the AIP has been developing since the 90s. It started as a specific carbohydrate diet, then it turned into a paleo diet and then it turned more towards an AIP protocol. And it's continued to evolve and become more specific since then. As I mentioned over the last 20 or so years in my practice, the effectiveness just keeps getting better the more we can tailor it to different individuals. So the AIP is kind of, it usually begins with basically a list of nodes. And I'll just do that list now. No grains, no beans, no nuts, no seeds, no eggs, no dairy, and no nightshades. And almost every time I've said that group of words in that sequence, the person sitting across from me says, what am I supposed to eat? And yeah, that's a big removal from the sort of pantry of your typical western kitchen. But again, when you're looking at this from an ancestral or sort of paleo perspective, we're talking about applying diets that people have had for thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of years, not for about a hundred years. So although it's a big hit to what most people are used to, it's a really good idea to get the interference of the last hundred years out of the way just to make sure that your immune system is dealing with something that it for thousands of years it was pretty okay with. And there's a seasonal component to this. When you look at ancestral eating, it was very seasonal. And even when you look at a few hundred years ago, eating was still very seasonal. It's only been in the last, even probably 75, 85 years that mono diets throughout the year have been become popular. And that's where things become more dangerous. Because if you're eating something that's a little bad for you, you a couple of months a year, you know, it may or may not set off an illness process. But if you're eating something that's bad for everybody every day, all year, you're going to end up, you know, essentially making yourself sick if that's a likely outcome of that trigger. So if you want to get into the real detailed science of why that list of no's exist, go back to my website again, integrative health healthdetective.com and if you go through the typical email to get the newsletter thing, the first thing you get is a 65 page kind of mini introduction to my book, the Ancestral Autobiome Protocol, which is coming out next year. And it'll walk you through the chemistry and the triggers and the antigens and all of that in a lot more detail. But I'm going to do a real quick, I guess, drive by with that. So when I look at grains and beans and nuts and seeds, the similarity is that they're all plant embryos. They all are basically the babies of plants that, you know, if they find themselves in some soil, eventually they're going to grow and reproduce the entire plant. Now that's an obvious thing to say, but it's an important context because Mother Nature is really smart and she's made it very difficult for mammals like humans and bears and, you know, other things that walk on the ground to actually digest their babies. Because, you know, one aboriginal elder I know says that, and this isn't meant to be literal, that plants created animals to help get their babies around. So we eat them, we chew up some, we don't chew up some, we poop out the ones that we don't chew up and they get a free ride to some co compost and, you know, they can start a new family or what have you. And the imagery of that is important because you have to ask yourself, why is it that I can eat most of my food and it turns into what looks like feces, but when I eat things like the plant embryos, seeds, nuts, grains and beans, some of them end up looking exactly the same in my poop. I mean, corn is the most famous one for that because it's technically undigestible. But up. It's just important to have that picture in your mind because the chemicals that those plant embryos have are meant to defeat your digestive enzymes, to irritate your mucous membrane, to bind up your microvilli, to limit your absorptive capacity, so that the plant embryo and its family members can get a few more inches down the tube of your gut and at a certain point they just end up leaving your body and growing up in the compost. And inside of the structure of those plant embryos you see things like enzyme blockers, lectins, phytic acids, exomorphines, prolamins, all kinds of other things that have secondary inflammatory or immune damaging effects in the body. So again, if you want to get into more detail, you can actually find that all online pretty easily, or you can find that through my website website. Eggs and dairy, they all, they both have different unique either enzymes and, or proteins that can irritate your mucous membrane, making your gut more leaky, or having more intestinal permeability creating the conditions for you to end up with more inflammation, more immune triggers, and if you're carrying the genes for autoimmunity, more autoimmunity. And then there's nightshades. And it's a very small percentage of people who actually need to get rid of nightshades. So what I usually ask my patients to do is to stop eating them. And nightshades are things like potatoes, tomatoes, peppers, and eggplants and a few spices and other things. But there's a caveat to that that I think is really important, because it's so easy on any therapeutic diet to just. Just lock in, put on the blinders, you know, try and keep it together and just cut through it. But when you end up removing a lot of very familiar foods and a lot of very familiar spices that make your life and your food seem like your life and your food, I try and find a little bit of wiggle room. So usually what I do with my patients is zero nightshades for about a month and then have them every day for four or five days in a row. And if you do a nightshade challenge and you get a big flare up and there's more inflammation and pain, you're one of the people who has a trigger to that. If you have nightshades every day for a few days in a row and you don't have a trigger, then you could probably have them two or three times a week after that and still maintain an effective progress with your autoimmune protocol. So I hope that doesn't, you know, poke a stick in the eye of people who just are absolutely convinced that all nightshades are bad. That's up to you. I'm just saying, after 25 years of doing this myself as a patient and trying to help other people, it's nice to have some wiggle room, and it's nice to be aware of the difference between a general reaction and a specific reaction. Okay, so let's move on to the ancestral aip, which is the approach that I've developed over the last couple of decades. So in the ancestral aip, I have what are called four pillars. One is nutrition, one is metabolic fitness. Then there's mindset, and then there's support. And I'll get more into each of those pillars in a bit. We also have four protocols, and each of the protocols goes through those pillars. So the first protocol is called rest. Second one is called rebuild, and then restore and then rebalance. So if I have a patient who's just starting to have allergic issues and maybe some mild chronic problems, but they don't really have like real for sure autoimmune at this point. Most of them can get away with, well, contextually just focusing on that rebalance protocol and maybe a certain amount, but not a severe amount of exposure exclusions with her diet. And they may just get better because their immune system isn't completely freaking out. However, when I meet patients that are years into autoimmunity and they're having a big flare up, it's two or three weeks of the rest protocol, which is an anti inflammatory kind of monastic hibernating period of time where you just want your body to really repair the signaling and the inflammation. And then if I have that patient who's had a rough time there, after a couple of weeks of doing profoundly anti inflammatory process and protocols and diets, then it's going to be about a month of what is called a nutrient dense modified keto diet or my rebuild diet. And we'll get into that in more detail in a couple of minutes. And then usually after a couple of months of being on that modified ketogenic diet, I get people to focus on a more nutrient dense diet that includes a bit of nuts and seeds and a little bit of pseudo grains. Because one, now we're on months number three or four and people like to again have that wiggle room. But it's also a good idea at that point to test their immune sensitivity and reactivity. Sometimes we make people wait longer, sometimes they decide not to wait as long as we want them to. And that's just the, the dance of being in practice. But it's usually about another three months. So at least two weeks of an anti inflammatory protocol, a month or two on a modified ketogenic protocol, and then about three months on a nutrient dense diet that includes a couple of nuts and seeds and a couple of pseudo grains. And then after that, you know, four, five, six months, depending on how they're doing, then we move on to what I would call the balance protocol or rebalance balance protocol, which is basically like eating like a homesteader, like I don't know, 500 years ago. So I'm going to go through these protocols step by step and I'm going to focus on the nutritional part because that's usually where people are going to get the most traction right away. I'm more or less, I'm not saying giving away, but bringing you into my practice with me as if you're a student following me, because you're going to get to Learn more or less how. I've practiced integrative medicine on the front lines. So I really hope this helps you if you're a patient because it'll get you a kickstart working with anybody with respect to integrative and functional and Chinese medicine. And if you're a clinician, I'm really hopeful that this helps you feel like you've got more confidence and more clarity on what these protocols can be be and why they're set up the way that they are. And if you have a lot of questions or comments or think that I'm really wrong about something, I'd love to hear from you. So feel free to get a hold of me through my website. So I'm just going to go into those four pillars with a bit more detail. So the first pillar is about nutrition, but it's really about good food and nutrition. And I really like the idea of good food because it reminds us that we want to have a positive relationship with what we're doing. For me, good food means that I can't wait to get home and eat it or make it or shop for it, so that I can get home and make it and eat it, because I want to have that anticipation that I'm actually solving a problem in the sense of my health. But more importantly, I get to go and eat some really good food. And, you know, I'm lucky. I live in a small town with a lot of healthy restaurants, so it's not that hard to find good food in restaurants. But depending on where you live, it might take you a few weeks to really find good food on the streets. And sometimes you have to get really picky with the cooks and the wait staff about what's in the salad dressing and what oils they use and all of that. So that good food and nutrition is that first pillar. You know, nutrition is like math. And we can all feel a victim to the math. Good food is a relationship, and it's like, like dating. It's. It really depends on what you bring to the date. You know, if you're full of passion and curiosity and playfulness, it's going to be a good date. If you're there with a bunch of math, you have to, like, you know, deal with that's going to be the date. So it's about good food, not just good math. So the second pillar is all about metabolic resilience and physical fitness. Sometimes I just call it metabolic fitness, but most people in the Western world have some cortisol and insulin and glucose issues. A lot of People have basic neurotransmitter issues in the sense of metabolic resilience. So the first thing I really want people to do is reset their metabolism to something that's more resilient, which is why fasting and ketogenic diets and things like that can be so helpful. And as much as people with, with chronic illness really don't want to risk damaging themselves or they're often very tired and sore, as soon as it is medically sensible and safe, the most important thing any of us can do is get fit. Get your mitochondria moving, get your myofascial sheath membranes stretched out, get your nerves pumping the way that they're supposed to work on the level of innervation. Because if you're not a fit, mildly athletic, mobile, primate animal, or however you want to think of yourself, your metabolism and your capacity to do anything in your body well is restricted by your lack of fitness. And I'm saying that not only as a doctor, but as a person who's been training as an athlete for 30 odd years and been training athletes for almost as long. So fitness in whatever way you model that in your health is going to be crucial. It's one of your pillars to get your metabolism resilient and your muscles stronger. Not saying that we all have to look like Ben or you know, he's getting kind of monster big, but we do need to have really fit good mitochondrial function in your muscle cells or else from a Chinese medicine point of view, you have sluggish g. The third pillar I would call mindfulness and mindset. I love talking to life coaches who are all about mindset, it but they don't really spend much time talking about mindfulness because in my experience, well, I have ptsd so I'm coming from a slightly different corner of the room maybe. But the idea of having a good mindset without having the mindfulness to be capable of dealing with my default mindset is not very easy. And that's true for a lot of people. And I'm not picking on life coaches here. I'm just suggesting that if you're as a person, as a coach, as a clinician or whatever, mindfulness is how a mindset works. So when you're going on a long term clinical journey with someone like me for months and months and months to change physiological patterns potentially, you know, early childhood trauma and other forms of trauma and maybe even dealing with addiction, Mindfulness and mindset are the number one most important attributes to rely on and to develop. And that's why they're a part of clinical protocols with, you know, a lot of people. So the fourth pillar I usually describe as support supplements and shamans. If you've ever looked into the blue zones over the years, recently, the best explanation that they have for why people living in blue zones live so long is because of connection and support and not being able to hold on to grudges for very long. Although they eat really well and they're fit and they spend a lot of time outside and all of that, the number one thing that they all do in all of the blue zones that is similar and consistent is they have good connection and support. And there's the, call it the mechanical version of that, where you have a doctor and maybe a coach and maybe a couple of good books and some friends that you talk to, and then there's going into support, being vulnerable, asking for other people to care for you as you maybe unravel a little bit, to be met in the places where you're physiologically, mentally, emotionally, or perhaps energetically, really having the hardest time in your life. And I just want to bring this up because I don't think I said it before. A lot of times you get people with complex autoimmune disease presenting as if they have complex affects, ptsd, and they actually are experiencing that way. And the PTSD is actually set off because of the biochemistry of chronic inflammation, messing up your body's ability to go into deep relaxation, proper sleep, and the fact that inflammation messes up all your neurotransmitters in very complicated ways, depending on where the inflammation is. And then there's what's going on in your gut and everything else. So it's a really good idea, I think, especially for clinicians, to recognize that a lot of the inner world experience of people with complex inflammatory disorders is subjectively similar to the experience of someone going through actual PTSD just because of the inflammation. So obviously a person has addiction. They need support in a really personal way. If a person has ptsd, lots of support in a personal way. If you have really severe autoimmune disease, you might want to consider getting support in a really personal way. So when it comes to supplements, that kind of really depends on what you're focusing on, you know, at the beginning. And I'll walk through this as we go through the. The protocol step by step. But mostly you're just dealing with organizing the body's response and supporting the damage. The reason I bring up shamans is because now in the 21st century, 2019, going to an ayahuasca circle, going to a huachuma or a Yopo ceremony, going to an ibogaine ceremony, Microdosing with psilocybin or LSD in the sense of antheogenic practice is now actually kind of a normal thing to do. And again, if you're dealing with addiction and, or trauma and especially autoimmune disease, those are really good ideas for you. Then there's aspects of shamanism that I would want to get into, maybe in another podcast, but they have to do with instinctual distress and disorientation, kind of more visceral, intuitive, social disorientation, and then a more existential disorientation. So when you're dealing with medicine people or shamans in that way, they want to unravel your suffering and your conditioning and your conditioned experience kind of in that order, so that you can kind of safely unravel yourself as you get to know who you really are and what the world really is, in the shamanic sense of, you know, what the world really is. Okay, so now we're going to go through those four protocols and I'll focus mostly on the food, but I will give a quick little howdy to a few of the other opportunities. So protocol number one is called the rest and reset protocol. And it's meant to go for one to two weeks. Sometimes it can go longer, sometimes shorter. But one to two weeks is a pretty good bookend for most people in the sense of good food and nutrition. The focus is on an anti inflammatory diet. And from an ancestral perspective, I usually refer that as an ice age diet or to mimic the diet humans would have had when we were going from apes to humans at the beach during ice ages. And I also call it an ice age diet because I like to make fun of silly names like paleo diets, because we're all taking this stuff kind of seriously in a way that's, in my opinion, a bit silly. So if you were to kind of like wrap your mind around what people eat at the equator, at a beach during an ice age, well, it's a lot of sashimi or raw fish or the modern sense, more ceviche. If you don't want to eat fish that you're worried about around any kind of parasites, healthy salads, unless you're pooping your salads out, then you don't want to be eating raw vegetables. And in a Chinese medicine point of view, that's probably one of the most common sense things that most scientists can agree on. If you're eating too much raw vegetables, too much fiber, there is the potential for them to be irritating to your immune system. So check your poop, my friends, and eat as much raw food as you can until it's coming out of your butt and then back it off. During that first two weeks, a lot of fish, raw fish, a lot of salads, a lot of berries, a lot of stews, a lot of broths and good old bone broth and things like that, and also a lot of sea vegetables. You want to have a lot of trace minerals in your system. You want to be safe about how you get iodine into your body and you also want to have that mucilinogenic kelp structure to draw out any mercury out of your gut so it doesn't get bound to you. A little bit of a fun fact. Most healthy anti inflammatory fish say salmon is high enough in selenium that the selenium can protect the receptors that would usually absorb the mercury. So in a way, a lot of these cold water fishes are protecting you from absorbing the mercury any faster through the selenium pathway. So just want to mitigate any fears around that. You want to drink lots of water, especially in the morning. And when we get to this rest and reset protocol, this is a really good time to focus on the opposite of nutrition, which is fasting. And that brings us into this idea of metabolic resilience. If you're up to it, and I, I really want anyone to ask themselves that because we're talking about the most in need kind of critical care patients. If you're up to doing a two, three day fast fast, that would be a really good idea in the sense of just shutting off the frontline freak show zombie movie of an autoimmune flare up. If you can't, then just focus on a broth fast and if you can't, then focus on some stew, you know, or something simple like a mono food fast and focus on intermittent fasting or keeping, you know, your meals to one or two a day close together because we're trying to get your whole metabolism sorted out. Now I'm sure you know, if you're a fan of Ben's show and you've listened to most of the people on there, you know as much as I do about how ketosis works and why fasting is a good idea. A big part of the rest and reset protocol is about inflammation, but it's also about hibernation. And the best way to make sure you're getting a hibernation experience is to get a lot of sleep. The only thing I Recommend with respect to fitness with the rest of the rest protocol would be just some gentle swimming, stretching and things like that. This is not a good time to be doing anything really intense. For some people that are a bit more fit but are having a lot of trouble on a neurological level, then I recommend what's called primal swimming. And that has to do with something called an epigenetic reset. I'll get to in a moment. Primal swimming is when you go to the deep end of the pool, you drop something heavy, you, you tread water, then you feel, when you feel ready, you swim to the bottom of the pool, grab the weight, push off the bottom, get to the top, hold onto the weight for 10, 20 seconds and then drop it, tread water and then repeat. And that's a really potent way of doing a kind of powerful breath work, gas exchange, practice in, in a few minutes in a pool. But it can really up what is called BDNF or brain drive neurotropic factor, which for a lot of people with neurological issues is kind of like a nice warm bath and a hug from your mom because it gives your neurophysiology a chance to begin a more confident and consistent repair protocol. One of the best things you could do for a mindset at the beginning of, you know, several months long protocol to solve a really complex problem would be to get into some stillness that could be meditation, qigong, yoga, svasno, and you lie on the ground and you know, do the corpse thing. Or if you really want to be the proverbial badass, then you want to go into a sensory deprivation tank because that's where some really profound magic can happen. I think I actually have a podcast on how the benefit of SD tanks work. So I'll make sure I'll get a link to that for Ben in the show notes as well because it's really interesting, interesting to go into how those tanks rewire your nervous system kind of as a sequence. A big fan of breath work. So usually when I'm working with patients in this first step of the process, if they're open to meditation, qigong and some breath work, we focus on what I call sensual or self regulation breath work where you're just focusing on the feeling and the consistency and the yin yang, kind of perfect exchange between inhales and exhales. So it's not organized or focused or difficult to do. It's about regulation, awareness and kind of accepting and feeling into your present state. In the first protocol with respect to supplements, biggest focus is just immune adaptogens and immune regulation and anti inflammatory support, which there's thousands of things out there that are good for that. And I honestly am reticent to start throwing out names of products or specific kinds of products because I don't know what you're going through and I don't want you to get the idea that I believe that I do. So I'm not going to get into the specifics of supplements but anything that's got to do with immunodaptogen modulation and or anti inflammatory support, good first step for that first couple of weeks because we're just trying to reset your metabolism and your immune system them from freaking out doing the martial law dance. In the sense of support. You're going through a two week protocol to rearrange your entire physiology. So your support should probably be mostly medical and people who can just bring you bowls of soup and rub your feet, stuff like that. The shamanism part, this is where I want to bring up what I call epigenetic resets. And they're little magic ways to do things that people were doing thousands of of years ago to re activate some epigenetic expression of activity and to downregulate a lot of epigenetic dysfunction. And there's actually a podcast on that too on epigenetic resets and again that'll be linked in the show notes if you want to get into that in more detail. So I'm not going to keep going to that depth of detail on this. I'm just going to focus on nutrition for the rest of the podcast and the rest of these protocols. But if you are interested in digging into deeper with all of that stuff, just get a hold of me and I'll make sure you get precise, useful information as quick as you can. So with protocol number two, the focus is on rebuilding your body, your metabolism, your membranes, your muscles and your mitochondria. We've probably all heard of leaky gut and the best way to fix your leaky gut is to fix your mucous membrane. So our focus in the diet wants, wants to be on everything that we can eat over a one to two month period that's going to continue to downregulate inflammation, repair a leaky gut and really help your body's connective tissue and mitochondria do what they do. So the focus for this part of the protocol in my practice is to be on a nose to tail connective tissue intermittent fasting protocol that that's more or less going to put you into ketosis. Some people, we do that in the measurable sense of actual nutritional ketosis for a specific period of time. Other people, we just lean them in the direction of a ketogenic diet. But we actually call this the scavenger diet in the sense of ancestral behavior. Because as people left the beach after an ice age, we would go and find animal kills, you know, as very early pre human and be bashing the bones apart from arrow while we not on, you know, the gristle and stuff. So it's to really focus on the, the nutrient density. But that nose to tail, you know, livers and kidneys and hearts and tongues, and especially the connective tissue like oxtails and short ribs and turkey necks, where you're going to get as much deeper connective tissue in the broth as you can. Another thing that I often, often do with that diet is to make sure a person's starting to get some resistant starch. If you haven't heard about resistant starch, you might want to look into that. It's a really good way to gradually rebuild your microbiome without using a lot of probiotics and things. And at this beginning stage of the protocol, the last thing we want to do is give you anything that's going to behave in any way like an antibiotic. So again, with each protocol, we're going to do something, some things about metabolism, fitness, mindfulness and support and shopping shamans and stuff like that. But I want to keep that to a minimum because otherwise this is going to be more than an hour long. I thought it was going to be about 40 minutes, but here we are. The one thing I would say about the fitness part of the, the second protocol, or the rebuild protocol, is to focus on circuit training because you want to rebuild your mitochondrial capacity in every muscle cell across your whole body. Instead of trying to work on gaining strength, size, weight or anything like that, you just want your body's metabolism to run like a very, very efficient system. And your mitochondria are kind of the end stage of that. So if you do feel up to it and you are trying to recover from something complicated, focus on circuit training. And I think if I were to say anything about the shaman part at this point, it would be to focus on the relationship of your healing journey or your few months of eating and living this way as an actual rite of passage for you to become the next version of you, because you're going to have to really dig deep to be able to do this. It's months of being very, very committed. And the why is for you to become a healthier you in every possible way. So in a way, it is a rite of passage. So why not think of it that way in the RESTORE protocol, after you've gotten rid of as much inflammation as possible and kept it that way for a couple of months as you've rebuilt membranes and muscles and mitochondria, now you want to widen things out a little bit, and you also want to test your immune system a little bit, but you don't want to piss it off. So the food side of the RESTORE protocol is to start adding in nuts and seeds and then see how that goes. And then maybe a couple of pseudo grains and then see how that goes. Goes, and then a couple of legumes and then see how that goes. And if you're okay, then try and just have them once or twice a week. You don't want to have you having these things all the time because they still are plant embryos and they still can irritate your gut and your immune system in a small way. But as long as you're not having them too many times a week, then you're going to be okay. Another aspect of this in, in the longer term, because, you know, especially for people who have really chronic, complex conditions, this Restore protocol diet is kind of like a looser version of a paleo diet, and you might be on it for years. So my recommendation, as soon as you can frame it in any way, is to make your diet seasonal. And that has to do with where you live, but it also just has to do with some common sense. The one thing that I tend to focus on in the RESTORE protocol has to do with hormonal reserve and neurotransmitters limiter reserve. So you still want to maintain that nutrient dense, higher fat, slightly higher protein, you know, and connective tissue diet. But this is when I would usually get into testing, besides the obvious testing, to see, like, how bad things are at the beginning. This is around week or, pardon me, month, three or four, when I'm like, okay, we've been doing this long enough that let's check your hormones, let's check your neurotransmitter balance, let's check out some other stuff and see if you've gotten back to optimal health. Because we're doing all of this work around, say, autoimmune disease, we might as well make sure that everything that actually runs the show is running the show in the best possible way. One thing that does help people a lot with the metabolic side of this part of the protocols is to start getting into cold Shower. Some people do that sooner, but I really, really try and push people towards that at this point. And when it comes to the fitness, this is when you want, want to get into like hit training and more kind of like intensity stuff to really force the rebuilding of the neurological part of fitness as much as just the muscle fiber and strength. And a general theme, I think for mindfulness is just about neuroplasticity, your vagus nerve, the polyvagal system around stress and trauma. And since you're doing this again for months, why not focus on shifting some of the deeper, deeper classic imbalances in modern people and neuroplasticity and getting your vagus nerve working properly is a huge step. And a lot of that actually happens through proper breath work if you really do it well. Try not to make this a commercial, but I do actually have a breathwork qigong somatic mindfulness course coming up. And depending again, when this is published, it may or may not matter, but I'll put that in the show notes, notes, because you could still look at the recordings of that if you're really interested in breathwork and qigong and how trauma release works. So when I get into the rebalance protocol with people, the nutritional part of it is what I call a homesteader diet, or more precisely, the healthy homesteader diet. And I really like that name because I really want people to think of themselves at a big table that looks something like a thing Thanksgiving dinner in the sense of what you might imagine a big feast at a homesteader's table would be. And you want to allow yourself to include more fermented foods and a little bit of things like maybe some goat yogurt or organic grass fed cow cheese, but especially the aged, harder cheeses and things like that. And maybe a little bit of white rice or a little bit of oats. And it'll take too long to get into the reasons why white rice is not that bad from a chemical point of view, for most people with autoimmune disease at this point in the game, when you've had a few months to really let things settle down. But that homesteader diet is basically everything that you want in moderation that isn't obviously bad for you. And also to keep it seasonal, you know, like, I grew up in a place where we had no electricity most of the time and we used a root cellar in the fall and winter as a way to survive the winter. So I guess I have a more familiar and an emotional attachment to the whole homesteader experience. But that's how Humans got here up until a few hundred years ago. So if you've gotten through the hard part of the autoimmune process and you're feeling relatively healthy and relatively symptom free, then yeah, dive into a homesteader diet and have rice once a week and maybe oats once a week during say fall or winter. And have a lot more fermented foods to deal with the bacteria you're going to feed by eating that much more starch. And if you're going to have things like dairy, make sure mostly often is fermented into yogurt or kefir or things like that. Or you're eating the least harmful things around cheese, like the age hard cheeses. So. So I think that covers the home sitter diet in, in the sense of you can have almost anything you want if it's not completely crazy for the rebalance stage of the protocol. When it comes to fitness, get into the best shape of your life. I mean, you just got over four or five months of going through a huge process to resolve a complicated immune system problem and, or trauma and or addiction. High fives all around. Why stop now? Because for the rest of your life, the rest of your life is determined by how close your health is to where your health was. So when you get into the best shape of your life, your health is as far away from chronic illness as you can get it. And that's my opinion for pretty much anyone, in whatever way you envision the best, the best health of your life. When it comes to the mindfulness and mindset part, I'll just leave you with maybe a little, a little teaser to something. In the more shamanic approach to health and healing, the belief is that all conscious beings have four fundamental needs as beings. Not as bodies or animals or the survival stuff, but four fundamental needs to feel fulfilled as a being. And they are coherence, adaptability, autonomy and belonging. And those are all states. They're not opinions, they're not philosophies, they're states of experience. So having gone through months of a rite of passage to take care of yourself and to heal your body and maybe your mind and your past, you now have a chance to do it in the context of allowing yourself to really feel, feel your coherent self, your autonomous self. You just did months of not screwing around. That takes some autonomy and coherence. Obviously your adaptability is going to be a lot better because you just used it to get through all of this stuff. But now you're that adaptable as a person. So what are you going to do with your adaptability now? And belonging is a really tricky thing nowadays because most of us believe that fitting in is what we're supposed to do. And fitting in is like drinking alcohol. It's a survival strategy to get through an uncomfortable experience. Belonging is an instinct. Fitting in is a survival strategy. And honestly, from a psychiatric point of view, it's kind of, well, a little bit of a neurotic illness. So it's better to fit in than to be alone, but it's better to belong than anything. So I would just encourage anyone to sit and meditate on those four needs and feel them as states in your body, in your life right now. And if you can't touch in with them, well, go and find some support and work with people to make sure that those needs are being met. Because most people who are living from a place of autonomy and coherence, as well as adaptability and belonging, are doing things like, you know, Ben Greenfield is doing, which is out there kicking ass, changing the world by helping people. Because what else would you do with all of that mojo? And I guess I'm kind of not so much challenging, but definitely encouraging you to be one of those people who gets all your needs met, gets your health back, and gets out there to do everything you can for the, I don't know, the whole family of humans that are having fun down here. So I'll just finish this off with a bit of a conversation about looking at this in the long term, because again, I've been doing this as a patient for well over 20, 25 years, and I'm only going to speak from my experience, although that's going to be colored somewhat by my clinical experience. It's going to be meant to be coming from more my personal experience as a patient who also has to live this way, you know, or else if you have a complex autoimmune condition or PTSD, or you really have locked horns with addiction, and I'm not saying that to be flippant or in any way judgmental, I mean, we're in the same boat. Give yourself permission to accept that those parts of your life are going to be with you for your life. You don't get over addiction, you learn to live with it. You don't get over ptsd, you learn to live with it. And in almost all cases of actual chronic autoimmune disease, you don't just make it go away, you learn to live with it, but in the way that makes you the most healthy and predictably able to re to balance your health or to bounce back if you have a flare up. So these four protocols and four pillars, those are the ways that in my life as a patient, I resource into anytime I have a flare up. And I've had four or five in the last 25 years. And in four of those flare ups I actually took pharmaceuticals. So if you're in that much trouble, get that much help. But as soon as you can get off those kind of higher risk kinds of help, go through those four stages, get the rest you need, rebuild your muscles, membranes and metabolism, you know, get into restoring the, the deeper reserves in your body and you know, give yourself the most nutrient dense and the most options you can while being safe. And then when you feel really, you know a lot better, move in that homesteader kind of rebalance direction and just focus on being, you know, more true to yourself and getting those fundamental, more instinctual needs met so that the stress of life is something you're facing as a whole person instead of facing as someone who's worried about what you're going to do if you get sick again. I hope that information helps you make the decisions you need to make with respect to your health and your situation right now. If you're a clinician, I hope that information gives you a bit of insight on how to approach autoimmune disease. I just want to thank Ben Greenfield for inviting me to make this little kind of blog cast lecture thing for people on the ancestral approach to autoimmune disease. And I wish you well and I, I hope that you do find whatever strategies you actually need to find in your life to have the best, best life, the best health and the most fun. So thank you for listening. My name is Dr. Michael Smith. You can track me down on my website, which is integrative healthdetective.com or if you're more interested in working with me or learning about what I do around trauma and addiction. That website is called somaticmindfulness.org so I hope all the resources are in the show notes. And again, thanks for listening and have a great day.

Well, thanks for listening to today's show. You can grab all the show notes, the resources, pretty much everything that I mentioned over@BenGreenfieldFitness.com along with plenty of other goodies from me, including the highly helpful Ben Recommends page, which is a list of pretty much everything that I've ever recommended for hormones, hormones, sleep, digestion, fat loss, performance, and plenty more. Please also know that all the links, all the promo codes that I mentioned during this and every episode help to make this podcast happen and to generate income that enables me to keep bringing you this content every single week. So when you listen in, be sure to use the links in the show notes. You use the promo codes that I generate because that helps to float this thing and keep it coming to you each and every week.