https://www.listennotes.com/e/66bcae63a6184de1aafaeefd970a27fc

Now.

Well, we're excited to have everybody here on the RT dialogue conversation. It's glad to have Miss Nicole Zasowski with us.

Wow, you pronounced that right.

Yeah, it's impressive.

Good. I can keep on Zasowski as many times as possible today.

That's a fun one for sure.

It's a fun word. and I have three books with me.

Oh, my.

By Nicole, our, like, resident awesome writer. Not only does she do, like, Christian awesome, like, books. We have one of it's wonderful. We have lost from lost to found. We also have very important restoration therapy book. But if you're a restoration therapist, this is the book Terry recommends starting with. Don't get the first book, get the second one. The advances and techniques and restoration therapy. He really recommends starting with this book first. And I, I totally get why it's such a great book. And I just love all your contributions throughout it, Nicole. And then I also have families and forgiveness, but I didn't have it in my home office, but you know, it's just so awesome.

Nicole, I want you to pay attention over the next several weeks, especially when you see Lance at the conference. How many times he'll drop the word wonderful. Just, just into, just into the air to see if you, like, pick up on that as, like, a tip of his hat to you. Right. Lance, I've seen you do that a few times. And, and he does it in text sometimes, too, right?

Yes. I will pay attention to that, especially when we, when we gather in a few weeks. Thank you, Lance. That's very kind.

This podcast obviously is new. We're hoping to really reach the RT community, people who are interested in it. And one of the things that we are interested in is how did a person get to RT? Like what was their journey to learn about RT and how has it really grasped you and got a hold of you and why is it the thing that you are really into right now? So, I think a lot of us in this community kind of knows some of the stories, but tell us a little bit about yours. How did RT come into your life?

Sure. Well, I feel really blessed and fortunate in terms of how I got introduced to it. I went straight from undergrad to graduate school at Fuller Seminary where Taryn and Terry and Sharon were. That's right. That's their usness name.

And.

You know, took a couple classes with Terry early on where the model was able to be very much on display. I think those were family therapy and marital therapy. And the way that Terry teaches is extremely experiential and lots of live demonstrations. So it wasn't just a theory in a book. I got to see how it plays out in real stories with real people. And I don't think it's an exaggeration to say I fell in love with the model. And I just remember thinking to myself, I want to learn to see like that. And I don't know if that's, if that specific language was from Terry himself, because I think he mentioned at one point you know, your therapeutic framework will be how you see stories, will be the context in which you see a person. And as soon as I was exposed to the restoration therapy model, I thought, I want to learn to see like that. Simultaneously, I had gotten engaged right before I entered the program. And Sharon was starting her what's now called Relate Strong Groups, this psychoeducational model with the RT framework. And Jimmy and I, my husband and I, were able to participate in those groups as an engaged couple, which was really neat because I got to experience practicing The model in my own relationship. So the reason I feel fortunate is it was my foundation as a therapist. I really didn't learn anything else first. And I think that's helpful in a lot of ways. I didn't have to unlearn things I've, I've kind of learned to see our through the RT lens from the beginning. But also my marriage has been impacted before it, by it, before it even began. And so Jimmy and I use this in our relationship even still. It's helpful with my kids in understanding them through this framework and how I want to parent. So I, it's an embarrassment of riches that I got to be that exposed that early and have trained with Terry in some capacity ever since.

Yeah, I like this idea of falling in love. Like, I think that it's interesting when we talk to people about the model and you talk about wanting to see things the way that he was seeing things. I'm curious, Nicole, like, what was it that you fell in love with when it came to the model? And tell me about, like, you know, you're sitting in the, this is the strong marriages, successful ministries.

Yes, that was the title in that era.

So tell me what it is that you fell in love with and what it did for you and Jimmy and your marriage.

A lot of things that drew me to the model, I think to name a few, just the organization for both the therapist and the client, We talk now about organization and structure and sequencing as a major interventions in the RT model, even though we may not think of them as interventions, but they absolutely are. I think just the organization of it really drew me to the model and also the way that the model stewards pain. and what I mean by that is the way that it encourages me as a person and clients to be a good steward of their pain by taking responsibility for their pain, that their pain is not their fault, but it is our responsibility. And so good. That was very different than a lot of other models that I had been exposed to where For instance, in a couple's context, the essence of the message was, what does the other person need to do differently so that you can feel okay? Well, I thought if both people are being asked that question, nothing's gonna change. They're gonna be waiting for the other person to do something differently so that they can feel better and then do something different. And it was incredibly disempowering. I felt like, not to knock on other models, 'cause I think there's also some merit to any model. But a lot of what I had been exposed to was models that created these really emotional, seemingly impactful moments in the session and then created no change once the session was over. And certainly once the therapeutic relationship was over, and it just felt very disempowering to the client. And I really appreciated that RT was the opposite. It provides a great framework for insight and understanding and how to diagnose what's going on underneath the waterline in someone's story. But it doesn't stop there. And that's the other thing I loved about it. It doesn't stop at insight and understanding, whereas a lot of models we'll say, okay, now that you understand why it is you feel the way that you do, or even what the specific primary emotion you're feeling is, let's help you not feel that way anymore. But they don't really have a framework for how to do that. And I love the practice component of, of RT, where it actually gets people up on their feet and, and practicing doing something differently. So The final thing I'll say that I loved about it is it so easily integrates with my faith as a Christian. And I didn't feel like I had to cherry pick different things from the model to sort of make it work with my worldview as a Christian. It very much integrates, but at the same time, it's not a Christian model where you have to edit it for a client who is not looking to integrate faith in their work.

Dang, we need to have her on for like three hours, Lance.

I will come back anytime.

I actually know, I think what's going through Lance's head is when you talk about like, this is what you love about the model, was there like, Lance and I have these stories about Terry when he walks in a room or some moment where you're like, Something happens that makes you like, this is why I wanna study this thing. And you have to have some story that like defines some encounter with Terry where like, I wanna do RT.

Well, now you're gonna make me cry. I think the moment I fell in love with the model was really just seeing him work as a therapist. But I have tremendous love for both Terry and Sharon in terms of who they are as people, the way that they practice this model in their own lives. I mean, they don't ask us to do anything that they're not doing in their personal lives or in session. But I have such fond memories of, Even just sitting around part of those early relate strong groups, the strong marriage successful ministry groups, they would have a dessert kind of fellowship time after the teaching time. And just sitting around their dining room table, really leaning into their hospitality and receiving that and hearing their stories and sharing our stories and Laughing together and crying together and, you know, and in my in my personal life, they've been like second parents to me. And I have great parents. But just really, I cannot imagine my story or my relationships without their influence.

Yeah.

When I, I had, I was at an intensive actually, and it was day two and Rhett and Lance will know the challenge of day two. It's, I think the most traditionally difficult day because of the kind of work you're doing with the couples. And, I was leading this intensive and I was on a break and I got, terrible news from my doctor. And I just remember sitting on the floor and calling Terry and he listened and said all the right things. And. But one of the things he said to me, I'll never forget it. He said, I know you will be a good steward of your pain. And that concept that we can't control the pain that just walks into our lives. But we have a lot of agency and choice around how we steward it and what we do with it. And that has changed my life, that concept. So, and you know, then I remember him walking in with a guitar and a sombrero and singing some crazy song.

And.

You know, just, they're just the best.

Well, as you astutely pointed out, I mean, sometimes Terry's the first entry way, if you're a student, he comes into the classroom, but It's not long before you realize they come as a pair.

Oh yeah.

And they model the work, as you say, in real life. I've been in the car with them, leaving an intensive in the back seat, listening to them literally kind of walk through their pain and peace cycles. And I'm like, just observing it, you know? And I'm like, okay, this is the model I want to follow. Yeah.

Yeah. When somebody's doing the work, It makes them pretty trustworthy as someone to follow.

Yeah, it's a therapy model that is not just a model, but it's like really truly modeled like in in the creators and, you know, instilled into us to do as well, like to just to model that thing. That's that's the beauty of it.

I was going to say I like the language of this is the way I want to see. Is that how you said it? Like yeah.

And I think that carries language, yeah.

Yeah, 'cause I was just talking to some therapists the other day and I was thinking, oh, I don't, like we have different perspectives on how to work in this situation, but now I'm reflecting on that thinking, no, they're just different lenses. Like we are, I'm around other therapists who choose to see things in a different way. And I happen to be in a place where the way that I would like to see the work I do is through the lens of the RT model.

Even when you're listening to a story, just listening to it in terms of identity and safety, I mean, you kind of, yeah, you get to a point where you just can't turn it off in a good way. No. As you listen to someone talk about something that happened to them or a relationship struggle they're having, you know, I'm always listening for the story underneath the story in terms of identity and safety, and I'm really grateful for that framework.

Mm-.

I'm grateful for it, but sometimes it really annoys me because I just want to be mad sometimes.

You just want to react. You just want to help.

I just want to be in my pain cycle sometimes.

Well, yeah, this. And don't you still feel that way? Like, I know I should do my four steps right now. Am I gonna choose that? Am I gonna do the. The hard but worthy work?

Oh, I was working with some of my associates the other day, and I was mad about something, and. And my. My associates just looks at me, and they're like, and I wonder what that person's pain is. I'm like, dang it, man.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's your fault for training a bunch of RT people, Lance.

I know that are gonna keep you accountable.

Man, that's such a beautiful, yeah, it's such a beautiful story, Nicole.

Thank you. I mean, I was a grateful recipient of their love and trustworthiness.

Yeah, and even though I know I've known you guys for a long time and I've heard some stories, like I haven't heard every story, and even when I hear a story that I think I know, there's, it just, it impacts me in a new way, so I appreciate you sharing that. One of the things that Lance and I were talking about, too, is the unique way that you use RT and interact with people outside of the RT community. And I just think one of the things that you do that's really cool is that you have this thing called Therapy Thursday that you're really consistent with. I know if I go to Instagram every Thursday, you're gonna have this therapy moment and lots of engagement interaction. And if you don't do it, it's because you've actually posted and say, I'm taking a break this week or I'm with family or I'm traveling. So we're curious about how did you, I don't know, how'd you come to doing that? And what's that experience been like for you?

I think a few different paths led me to trying that out and kind of having fun with it. And that is what I look at it as. I think it's something fun to do that, you know, allows me to put some therapeutic wisdom or practical tips in kind of a bite-sized format. And 99% of the time they're RT informed. And unless I'm talking about, you know, something completely different, but I think I was, what's the right word? I think I was discouraged by what I was seeing online in terms of what was coming from our field. or maybe the person wasn't licensed 'cause it's sort of the Wild West or trained in any way. But just the messaging coming out of the psychology field was discouraging to me, and I didn't feel like it was preparing people very well to have a healthy relationship with themselves. with God or with other people. And I think RT does a beautiful job of equipping people to have healthy relationships with themselves, God and other people. So, you know, I'm definitely limited. Instagram actually just expanded their limit from 90 seconds to three minutes, and I'm really appreciative of that. And I'm still amazed how fast the time goes. But I'm certainly limited in terms of what I will talk about. I'm not gonna throw something out there that's super specific that somebody could, that would be hard to apply to a lot of people and kind of stay in a lane of what's wisdom that could be helpful to the vast majority of people tuning in and sort of leave the exceptions for another format. But I've really enjoyed engaging with people in the conversations and comments afterward. I kind of like being an RT evangelist for other clinicians who are intrigued by learning to see in the RT way. And so I love talking to other clinicians more about the model. And it's nice to be able to put something out there that I think is going to serve people a lot better than the mainstream conversation. I kind of swim in these interesting waters of, Lance, you mentioned my first couple books. Those are trade books where I integrate faith and psychology and my own personal story. And of course, the psychology piece is my map, which is the RT map, in my way of understanding story and spirituality.

So.

Particularly in the, people are very intrigued by the integration of spirituality and psychology these days. And I was particularly discouraged by what I was, the messaging I was seeing there. And so I thought, well, I'm in that space and I would like to present an alternative message.

I've been thinking about coming up for you, like, I, I, I really love the, the Thursdays. You know, you've been working through the four steps recently.

Yes.

It's been fun as, as, as you're doing that. I, I think about, like, therapy in general. I think so many therapists are afraid when it comes to spirituality. It's, it's almost like we're, we don't know exactly how to do it. We get, like, we don't want to be over the top. So we kind of will go very under. I'm curious about for you, like when you're thinking about integration as a, from a spirituality lens, what are some of the tenants that you live by there? And how do you like to flow with your clients?

In terms of practice, A lot of it is, and this will be my seminar at the summit if you're coming, but advertisement. You know, I find that you're exactly right. We do tend to keep them as separate conversations because we're worried or we don't know, we're worried about overstepping or we're not exactly sure how to use spirituality to enhance the therapeutic experience or how they actually work together. I'm going to talk a lot about different interventions that hopefully we as RT therapists are already doing in the room, but how to integrate spirituality into that. I'll name just a few here. I think metaphor is one of the best ways to integrate spirituality. And you can use it to kind of heighten the intensity around a few different things that we do in restoration therapy, whether it's identifying the pain cycle or deepening the truth. So often I'll wait for a client to serve me up a metaphor. It doesn't take long. I mean, think about all the things our clients tell us. You know, I feel just caught in the storm and everything's falling down around me. Okay, perfect. We're now. I'm now gonna stand with you in this storm, and you're gonna kind of give me a tour of this imagery and. And then a very easy way to start integrating spirituality, particularly if. If I know the person has a faith, is to say, okay, you're standing on this Forest floor, and there's sticks. everywhere. And where is God in this clearing? And then that gives me a lot of information. You know, I'm going to ask, what's his body posture? What's the look on his face? Tell me what you look like in relation to him. Show me with your body what you look like as he's standing there. you know, and I'll usually take the posture of the, that the person described, but, you know, and then you can move into what truth, what is, what is he saying to you in this moment? Often, you know, in, in restoration therapy, we would say that there's three sources of Truth, God, other people and ourselves, and. we would also say that ourselves is particularly it's not necessarily the most important, but it's particularly powerful because God has given us agency over what truth we receive and what and or reject. We can either choose to receive or reject the truth coming in from the outside, even if it's God himself in scripture. I find another easy way to integrate it is when somebody says, and we've all had clients say this to us, you know, I know God says this and they'll usually rattle off a pretty familiar scripture about their identity or sense of safety, but I don't feel it. Perfect. Okay, you've just given me two, two paths. There's, there's the truth that God says that you're having trouble connecting to, and then there's the lie that is easier to believe. I'll have clients or sometimes I'll write it on a piece of paper, the lie and the truth, but one is God's truth, one's the lie. I'll put those two pieces of paper on the floor and I'll heighten that choice that the client has. So he's, they're telling me, that they know the truth is this. But they're also telling me, I'm not sure if I'm gonna choose that for myself. And so I'll put those two pieces of paper on the ground and have them make a choice right in session. And sometimes, you know, we'll layer that a bit. I'll say, okay, just try standing on the truth. You don't have to commit to it, but just stand there. Show me with your body. what this truth looks like. If you were to, if you were to claim that for yourself, and then I'll have them move to the lie that is easier to believe, show me with your body what it feels like to walk around with this. Which message are you gonna choose moving forward for yourself? So that's an easy, again, this is Terri and Sharon's genius of coming up with the intervention, but I find that clients, particularly if they have a faith, they serve up these moments and it's the readiness to say, okay, I'm going to use this moment to integrate spirituality and then I'm going to give them the choice to claim that spiritual truth for themselves. Sometimes I find therapists are, and I'm raising my hands here, this is a bad habit that I easily fall into. I'm so particularly early on, I'm so eager for a client to be able to articulate their truth that they'll give me a Bible verse. And I'm like, yes, okay, we've got the truth. Now I know. No, just because they've quoted scripture in an appropriate way doesn't mean they've chosen to claim that message as their own. And so moving between, yes, God's truth is absolutely true, and their lack of belief doesn't make that less true. But I'm absolutely now gonna heighten that moment and give them the opportunity to choose.

It.

Yes.

What's that? Bride? The princess bride. When the guy keeps on using the word inconceivable. That word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Oh, man. Yeah, it's. I guess since all this went to Fuller, you know, we were at least trained to try to integrate the best psychological tools and principles with our faith and theology and stuff. And that plays out differently for everybody, and everyone feels competent or not comped to do that. But it sounds like you feel like RT has given you a particular path to integrate those in a way that really makes sense and.

Brings a sense of like, the model itself, in terms of the theory, is extremely consistent with biblical principles and what the Bible has to say about change. And I'll start the summit session by talking about that. And what I'm really grateful for is how easy it is to be creative as an RT therapist in actually helping people practice those principles. Because I think it's so easy to hang back in theory and philosophy. and RT has, and there's more avenues than we could count of ways to help people creatively practice the change that they want to feel and see in their lives.

I like that. It's kind of interesting when I think about particularly YouTube is that you guys flow in so many different spheres, right? You know, you have like the therapeutic world where it's that one-on-one environment. And there's also this both y'all have, you know, you have the Thursday, therapy Thursdays, and that you have your podcast that has brought so many people into the, the therapy world. But both of you guys also do speaking. Like, you guys both go around and do a lot of talking and. you know, I consider myself, you know, not, I do those three, but y'all also are writers. And so I think about like all these different avenues and there's different like ways that we approach it. Like from, like if you think about the therapeutic world versus the, like if you're speaking at a conference or a seminar or whatever, just curious, like what is that like for you guys when you're kind of going into a world? Like how do you, what do you notice about yourself in the different spaces? where do you like to flow the most? And, you know, I think about our listeners that are probably engaged with this. There might be some of them that are probably maybe preparing a talk for a church or for a business. I'm just curious for you guys, when you're going into these different areas, what's on your heart and what's on your mind?

Yeah.

I know. I mean, earlier about this, probably a few weeks ago, about going in and talking with a. I can't remember where you were talking, but I was in.

The school district to all the counselors.

Yeah.

No, I mean, Nicole speaks way more than me and writes more than me, but I. I do enjoy. that interaction. And I don't, I don't know. I mean, I don't know how to answer your question necessarily, Lance, except that I think I've realized, I don't know. I've tried to be more congruent with, like, who my true authentic self is. I think I found myself a lot of times speaking in places or writing and wanting to be a certain person or I had an image of what it means to show up in this way and. I don't know, to be liked or be affirmed. And maybe because of the own stuff I've gone through in my life, I think a lot of it, that's part of the reason, but also just like RT, I think has allowed me to, I don't know, just own who I am as a person and who I am as a person is that, you know, my faith is the most important thing to me and more important than being liked is I want to feel like no matter what audience I'm speaking in, I can just be true about that. and, and I'm not, I'm not, I'm not like a sledgehammer. I'm not trying to, like, convert a bunch of people or I think I feel like I'm, I'm very respectful to people and I want people to hear what I have to say. And I'm really interested in pulling lots of different threads from other areas of life, whether literature or philosophy and seeing the, the themes and how they connect to who we are in terms of who God created us to be. And so I don't know. I'm on a new journey. I think I've been thinking a lot speaking, like when I would have been speaking this last year and this year and some of the writing I'm doing right now, I'm just, I don't know. I think I'm finally at age of 50 coming into maybe closer to my true self and trying to, like, shed some of the false attachments that I have. I don't know if that makes sense, but I think the way the RT shows up is that I've been Ank, I've, well, I've been more anchored in the community in the last few years than I was. I was kind of floating around. I think that anchor of the people and Terry and Sharon specifically and have really helped me stay like connected and stable and allowed me to be in my peace cycle, if you were, and operate out of my true sense of self, regardless of what that looks like. And so I don't know, I don't want to ramble, but I think I'm just, I'm trying to show up in a more authentic, true self. And I think RT is flowing out of that. It's the anchor for me. It's the way that I I see the world, I guess, as you guys kind of said. And I don't bring up a care anymore. No, I just don't care anymore.

If.

If I'm that person who I think I'm supposed to be dies or I never get to that thing I thought I was supposed to be. I haven't figured out, but I'm caring less and less. I want to be my true self.

Yeah. Yeah. You bring up another thing that I think is really unique about the Restoration Therapy model, which is the community. I think it's a really special community and group of people that are drawn to this model, that practice this model, that are invested in this model. And gathering with other RT therapists is unlike gathering with any other group of therapists that certainly I've ever encountered. And there's just something special there. And I think part of it is the community and fellowship focus versus just scratching for significance and success and whatever that looks like in a particular sphere. I just think now here's a Terry story that relates to what I so appreciate what you're, what you're sharing, Rhett and resonate with it myself. But this was before it was right when we were about to start our practicums. So typically at Fuller, at least when I was a student there, you go through your first two quarters of classwork, and then people start actually seeing clients sometime in their third quarter, maybe their fourth. And I think I was the first one to go in my cohort and actually start being clients.

That sounds about right.

Well, my practicum just happened to start super early. But there were a few others maybe that were starting, you know, that month. And so everyone is just so scared to see a real client. And we're, for some reason, we're asking Terry, I don't know why the conversation turned to this, but he happened to be the professor that we were talking with about this. and we were like, well, what should be the first question we ask? Or what should we wear? Or basically, what should we present so that we're liked and accepted by our clients? Feeling like such imposters, of course, having never done this before. And he just paused and he said, the minute you leave, the person that God made you to be in favor of who you think you should be or who you think will be impressive or please the person you're in front of. You lose. You will lose that your touch on the Holy Spirit. And that was just such a.

Drop the mic.

Yeah, exactly. I've never forgotten that.

Say it again, Nicole, because people, there's people that are listening to this and they're gonna wanna rewind it.

Okay?

That I just have to make sure.

Well, I'm just, and I'm just repeating Terry's words. He says, the minute you lose yourself, you leave yourself in favor of who you think you should be, who you think will be impressive, who you think will please other people. you lose your touch on the Holy Spirit's nudge. And I thought we have to show up as just exactly who we are and be in tune with the Holy Spirit. Be aware of the Holy Spirit's presence, whether our client wants to integrate their faith or not, you know, and if you're an RT therapist who. Who has a faith, I think it's. a tremendous asset, not only to have the comfort of the Holy Spirit, but to. To be able to be sensitive to those promptings.

Well, and that's the beginning of integration right there. It's not the technique. It's that you show up as.

The.

Person who God created you to be. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's the foundation of integration, I guess.

Yeah.

That we're integrated as a person, as a whole. Like, as long. And if we're integrated, then.

Right. No, it does start with us. And maybe I should start with that story in my.

That's a good story. I know. Go ahead.

I'll just say, like, let's say exactly in the same frame of what you're saying, Rhett. Like, I think. And I definitely recognize that, like there's this amazing thing that when we show up with the person that we're made to be, that's the beauty of RT. It's like we're just helping you, it's restoration. We're not, it's not recreation. It's like we're going to who, the original source of what it was meant to be. And, you know, your authentic self, Rhett, is totally awesome. We totally dig it, you know? And obviously, Nicole, and like it's so great. and freeing just to feel that invitation to be ourselves, especially in the therapy room or when we're in front of a lot of people.

Yeah. And you too, Lance.

Thanks.

Well, since we are authentic, we want to be sensitive to time. Nicole, we know you got a bolt out of here in a minute or two to grab.

I do have a child at school.

To grab, yes. I think we, Lance, do we want to end with your question you were chatting with earlier or.

The.

Which. The one on the.

Huh?

The practices one.

Yeah. Yeah.

If you.

Yeah.

If Nicole, if you have, like, a quick minute or two, leave us with. Is there anything right now that, like, you're super into? It could be the spirituality piece or excited to that you're like, this is what I'm trying right now or experimenting with when it comes to r t that has me really, like. pumped up and I'm playing around with it and things.

Yeah, I mean, certainly those, the, the metaphor and the pieces of paper would be a specific thing, but something I challenge myself with all the time. This is more of a broad umbrella. But, but Terry has this, this true and terrifying statement. I might butcher it, but he says there is no courage demonstrated in therapy greater than asking a client to stand up, get on their feet, not knowing what you're gonna do next. And I, I use that as a challenge to myself. Not that I never know what I'm gonna do when, when I ask a client to stand up, but to really get my clients off the couch and moving. I think it shifts emotion unlike, you know, sitting still. I think I'm more creative as a therapist when we're on our feet and we're doing something together. And so I would really, and especially now that we're learning so much more about what actually facilitates change in clients' lives, It is in the practice. And so if we're not using, I can't control what a client does between, you know, outside my office, between sessions. But if we're not using our time in session to practice in a really active way, then I feel like I'm doing them a disservice. So get your clients on your feet, on their feet.

Well, and this is what I like about the community. Like this is a continuing growth area for me myself. And so every time I meet with you too, or other people in the community, like I'm challenged to go back into my office and try new things, you know, to have the courage to do that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Can I tell them that text you sent me several months ago about getting a client on their feet?

Me?

Yes.

Yeah, I don't care.

Remember this? Yes, I do. Okay. I was so encouraged, just based on what you were saying, I think maybe we were on your podcast talking about.

This and- We were, we were, I had you on.

And you talked. You texted me that you had had this really amazing session with somebody because, you know, of our conversation. And I think there was something that you shared with me that I tried in the next session, and it was like a light bulb moment. And this, this is the benefit of the community. And I, I was so encouraged that you let me know.

Yeah.

Gone well. And I think, yeah, us sharing with each other is how we grow.

Yeah.

I mean, I literally, at Lance, I think within the. The same day, maybe, or I tried something because I got the call with her, and my client walked out and he's like, dude, my whole life has changed. I can't believe, like, how I see the world now. Like, it literally, like, shifted his entire universe, and. And I was like, wow. Okay. So I'm like, I told Nicole this.

Yeah.

It's good stuff.

Yeah. Well, hey, Nicole, we are excited to have you speaking at the RT conference coming up here in February. Definitely gonna dip into that dip. That's using my son's lingo now. I'm gonna. I'm going to dip into that seminar.

I appreciate it.

Check that out. And we will have show notes, links and everything to your books and other things in the podcast. And we are looking forward to having you on again sometime later this year.

That'd be great.

Can't wait to see you both.

Oh, good.

What, Lance?

Are you going to share about your thing you're practicing?

You want me to share real quick?

Yeah, we all have to share.

Well, if Nicole doesn't have to dip out here real quick, but I'm okay. I don't know. I mean, it's changing week to week, Lance, but I think I don't want to, I can't practice it in front of you guys right now. I'll take too much time, but something I've been, I'm still on this train right now. Nicole, I showed this in a previous podcast, but the emotional regulation piece, of RT. I have been specifically just really helping clients use a passage of scripture, which I love. Psalm 46 10. Be still and know that I am God. And we will practice breathing in this idea of be still and then breathing out this idea of know that I am God as a way to kind of Center ourselves and steal that one. yeah, something I've been, like, using in my own life for years, and I just kind of been using with clients more, and it's just simple. Be still. Know that I am God. And it just fits with this, like, breathing pattern. And so I don't know, I just been using that as a tool to help kind of emotionally regulate people and myself in session. So I love that.

That's awesome. I like one of the things, since we're on the integration lens, one of the things I've been doing with my clients is I'll, I'll, I'll, like, pause with them for a second and say, so, you know, they might be talking about, you know, the Bible or something like that. I'm like, well, which character are you connecting with in the Bible right now? And maybe they'll tell a story that they heard at church and like, oh, which character do you connect with in that story? And kind of playing off your story, what you're saying, Nicole, but, like, kind of taking it to that moment and then what did that person need to know? You know, you know, what was going on inside of them? And, you know, what are the words that the Lord says to them? And I had this. This client, he was talking about, you know, I won't go into too much detail, but they're. They're connecting themselves to Moses, and he looks at me. he's like, well, it doesn't work out too well for Moses, does it?

Your story can be different. Yeah.

I looked at him, I said, oh, really? Because where is Moses last mentioned in the Bible? I forget. Do you remember?

Yeah.

He gets to hang out with Elijah and Jesus.

Transfiguration. Yep.

And where is that mount in the promised land?

Yep. Yep.

Our stories are still playing out.

What's this area look like? Yeah, that's another great entry point of integration.

Yeah.

Love. I love that, Lance.

So good.

Oh, really? I love that. Well, thanks for hanging out, Nicole. Oh, and.

Easy, easy ask to be with you guys. So easy.

Yeah, I'm excited to hang with all of you in a few weeks and everyone else listening. We hope to see you there. So thanks for tuning in. Everyone have a good day. Talk to you later.

Bye, guys.

Bye-bye.