In this episode the hosts walk through “intervention number five,” a versatile therapeutic tool that uses soft tennis‑ball‑type objects to deliver bilateral stimulation. The technique is grounded in the REM‑sleep model of brain processing: alternating left‑right sensory input (visual, tactile, auditory) puts the client into a processing mode that can calm dysregulated states. The hosts describe three primary clinical targets—high conflict couples, anxiety‑laden individuals, and anger‑prone clients—and outline step‑by‑step procedures: placing a ball on a coffee table, having partners pass it back and forth at a steady rhythm while discussing difficult topics, monitoring changes in ball speed as a proxy for emotional regulation, and using the ball as a self‑regulation cue outside of session. Multiple variations are explored, including rolling the ball across the floor, holding it in the lap, using different textured balls (squishy, “kush,” soft snowballs), and sending a ball home for practice. The conversation emphasizes creativity, metaphor, and novelty as therapeutic levers that engage clients’ brains, foster new problem‑solving perspectives, and make the intervention memorable. The episode concludes with plans to split the interventions into separate releases for easier access.
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Let's talk about intervention number five.
Yeah, so intervention number five is super diverse. And it's, I mean you. I'm not saying. Gonna say that the possibilities are endless, but it pretty much is. And the intervention is simple. It's just tennis balls and. Okay, you can get all kinds of tennis balls. I think I found these on Amazon. They're. I think they're pet toys actually, but they're multi colored. Yeah. See, like any of those. I think, Rhett, like I. You've used tennis balls a lot. I really remember.
These are the soft. These are the soft practice tennis balls you can buy, which I like because there's also you. You can squeeze them a little bit. So there's a little bit of like tools with them. You know, does that make sense? Like there's some extra play with it.
But yeah, with the 10, the tennis ball for, for me primarily focuses around bilateral stimulation and really helping couples, or specifically individuals to slow things down. Because.
So for those of you that don't know bilateral stimulation, that is basically what we're doing in therapy is. What we're doing is we are trying to help our clients. It's based off of the idea of REM sleep where our brain processes things. This is the third stage of sleep. And basically what happens in REM sleep, your eyes are going left to right, very fast, rapid. And what they have found is that by doing bilateral stimulation where you're using left and right side of your brain body, whether it's visually, tactilely, auditorially balanced, all the, all these different types of using the two sides of your body puts your brain in process mode and helps you to calm down and get out of that whatever state you're in. Disregulated state.
Yeah. And so the, the intention is bilateral stimulation. And so I'm using, typically I'm using these in three instances. Number one is couples who have a highly conflictual pattern. So if they come in hot, right. Like they'll come in and they're just already there. I use this with either individuals or couples who have a lot of anxiety or individuals or couples who've got a lot of anger. Those are typically the three spots that I'm looking for these kinds of interventions. And again, there's multiple different ways to use this. One of the ways that I like to use it is once we've moved, we, we've gone pain cycle, we have their pee cycle, we're moving into the practice phase. So oftentimes I'll have couples, when we start trying to like talk about an issue or talk about things. But using the four steps and kind of practice this, I'll clear. I've got a coffee table. You can. I don't know if you can see it, but there's a coffee table in the middle of my office. And I'll take everything off the coffee table, and I'll have one spouse sit on one side of the table and another spouse sit on the opposite side. And then I'll give them a tennis ball. And I'll say, as we kind of start, I want you to just pass this tennis ball back and forth. And I'm paying attention as the clinician to the intensity that they're passing it. So if they start throwing it at each other, clearly we gotta process that. So I want them to find a really steady, very consistent rhythm with the tennis ball. They're not talking about anything. They're just passing a tennis ball. And all that they're doing is passing this tennis ball back and forth. And then I might say, okay, now start talking about your finances. Start talking about your physical intimacy. Start talking about your communication. Start talking about your parenting. But I don't want you to change the pace of the ball. And then I'll kind of let it go. Right? I might even give them three or four, maybe even five minutes. Because what I'm wanting them to do, which maybe sounds sadistic, I'm wanting them to get dysregulated. I'm wanting the pressure of the ball, plus the topics or the conversations that they're having, to increase their dysregulation. Because I'm looking for two things. I'm looking for can they recognize it when it happens? And then can they get themselves back regulated? And so I'll probably slow them down and I'll interrupt and I'll say, notice what's your pace of the ball? And usually it's sped way up or it's stopped. Like it's. It's not being passed at all, or it's so slow, or there's usually a difference in the ball. And then I'll lean into the ball to get them to talk about why it's happening. So if the ball is going faster, what does that tell you? And then we'll process. Well, it probably tells us that we're too focused on other stuff, or we're trying to take things out on our spouse or. Right. And I'll say, that means you're in your pain, so what are you going to do? And then we start moving it towards, okay, let's get Back in your peace and see if we can keep this ball going at a good consider, good, steady, consistent pace. Excuse me. Another way to use it can sometimes be if you've got, like, one spouse or one individual in the relationship that gets. Typically gets a little bit more regulated. I might have them pass the tennis ball back and forth in their hands, or maybe they can just set it in their lap and, like, slowly back and forth, or maybe just holding the tennis ball. Sometimes just having the tennis ball in their hand can be a really helpful thing as we kind of work through the session or talk about different things. It can also be helpful if you get them up and have them pass the tennis ball back and forth across the floor. That takes a little more coordination. It's doable, but I like the table because there's not really any catching or throwing. It's because I can. Balls will fly everywhere, but it can kind of help say things a little more consistently. But that's another way to do some of those things across the board. And usually I'll let them take the tennis ball or I'll send a tennis ball home with them so that they can kind of to go with them. Or they might come in and I'll just already have the tennis balls out so they know kind of the direction we're heading or the intention behind what we're doing. But really it's to emphasize, like, I need you to be able to have something you can do to help yourselves slow this process way down. And if it's a tennis ball, then let's make it be a tennis ball.
I think it gives you a lot of fun language when you use this intervention. I like this intervention as well. I have. I have so many types of balls in my office. I have the little squishy balls.
The.
I have kush balls. I have snowballs. Have you seen this? Like, soft snowballs there?
Yeah.
Those are ones that you can actually throw at a person. Won't do any damage.
I will.
I will take balls. I will take paper and ball it up. And I, I. But one thing that I learned from you, the last time I did this intervention was just rolling the ball across is such a great intervention because it.
You're.
What you're doing is you're having them put a lot of focus into what they're doing, and they're having to have a conversation. But it's. It's. It forces them to think about and be with one another as well. I like this as well, because you can talk about what do you do when you drop the ball, there's so many different elements of, like, how do you learn to throw the ball so the other person can catch it? I know. She's just.
You're.
You're just kind of just tossing wherever right now, like, hey, I want you to toss it right here. You know, trying to help them to focus and be more attuned with one another. This is a great intervention. And then talking through their pain and peace cycles as well. Yeah, it's a great one.
Yeah. I remember watching Terry at an intensive just put someone on the floor and just start slowly rolling a ball and just watching that person just calm down.
Yes.
And he had his legs out in a V, right? Like, he went with a little. And they're just rolling the ball back and forth, and then they sing a song.
Did they sing a song like a little kid? Yeah.
Yeah.
Dang.
Well, you know, Tanner, I know there's.
More because, I mean, we haven't done pipe cleaners yet.
I have these in my office because of you. So I think what we're gonna have. I think we're gonna have to do is have you back on the other episode so we can do some more interventions. I love these five ones, though.
They're awesome.
Yeah, we. Yeah, I would say has made a marked impression in my heart. One or uno might say, what is all the hoopla about? But I sure had a ball today.
I appreciate that. Thanks. Way.
Well, for those listening, we will break these up into multiple episodes and release them. Because I think just being able to go access one of the interventions and get practice around, it will be really helpful for everybody.
Yeah. And like, like Tanner said in the beginning, you know, like, our major three focuses are creativity, metaphor, and novelty. Okay. Anything that allows that to happen is going to really bring in your client's brain and intrigue, and they'll be able to see themselves different and that. That forces them to problem solve in a different way. So I just so thankful to have you on here today.
Season 2 | Episode 85 | Kamusta ka? -- Cultural diversity in therapy, athletic performance, and all things RT with Marriage and Family Therapy Associate, Kim Agramon-Bai
