Season 1 | Episode 31 | Tanner & Jet Hargrove on Marriage Intensives, Summit Planning and Hospitality

Lance, what's going on?

Rhett, how you been, bro?

I am doing good and I'm super excited about our guests today. I'm gonna let you introduce.

Super excited. Are you?

Well, I did know them before they were married, and so I feel like maybe I have a good story or two I could bring up on the podcast if needed.

They're not needed.

They're not needed today, eh?

Yeah.

Well, one of them has been on the podcast a couple times and we did a long series of interventions and.

Now we get five sessions with him already.

And now we get to meet his better half this time.

Yes, with Jet. Paul McCartney.

No.

Yeah.

No. Great.

Nope. Yeah. Jed is absolutely amazing. We're stoked to have her alongside this other guy named Tanner. And what, what Jet does is she, when you get to know her, you're instantly at ease and you're instantly like very important person and she's going to take good care of you. So I'm stoked to have Jet with us alongside her husband Tanner. And this is like a dynamic duo we have with us here today. So what Jet does is she's kind of, what would you call yourself? Like, operations manager? Do it all.

My title is Ministry administrator, so. But I, I take care of all registration. So anyone that is interested in attending the hideaway experience, I'm the first one that they're in contact with. I try to answer all of their questions, make them at ease about wanting to attend an intensive, and then I am in touch with them until they arrive at our facility. Um, and then I actually am out at the ranch working in the kitchen and doing the hospitality with my parents. Steve. Energy entrafted during the whole four day intensive.

Yeah. And we should say, I think our impetus for, we wouldn't have been having you two on for a long time is because you two pulled off an amazing summit. And in February, a banana roll on.

What?

What?

Yeah. And it got us thinking about not this, not only the summit itself, but all the moving pieces behind the scenes and everybody feeling really welcome and all the, the little things that we know.

Stickers with different things on it, just.

Everything, every moving piece. And then thinking about all the work that you two do at the hideaway experience there in Amarillo or outside Amarillo. Um, I guess I wanted to ask first, can you, because some people may not know. Can you say what the hideaway is, essentially, and just some history about it.

Yeah.

So I was there on 2010, 2014. Did you ever do stuff there, Lance?

Yeah, I worked. I, I, I went there and had a great, great old time. I think I've been there three times.

Okay.

I still have a pair of shoes there. I think I left possibly.

They're probably still there.

Marty was like, did you ever get your shoes?

It's also where we piloted the anxiety intensive. So all that to say, go ahead, Jet, and maybe kind of explain to people what the hideaway experience is.

Yeah. So the hideaway experience is actually located on my parents and our family's ranch. And this year we are finishing up on our 20th year of ministry. So we've been going for 20 years. So I was in college when my parents got the vision to start an intensive model. And so they added on to the ranch and they were connected with Terry and Sharon Hargrave, the goats, I guess, as we should say, of RT and.

Means, greatest of all time.

Exactly, yes. Thank you for explaining that. Yeah. So they started doing intensives. I believe when they started, they were doing two intensives a month. And all of our intensives begin on a Tuesday evening and finish up on a Saturday afternoon around 4 o'.

Clock.

So they were doing two intensives a month. And then they started backing off, doing one intensive a month in Texas. And we actually opened two locations. One in California, right outside of San Diego, and then one in Georgia on Windshapes location. Chick Fil A has been very gracious letting us use their facility. So we were doing three locations once a month. But then this little thing called Covid happened and so we just started, I guess, paring down a little bit. And so now we're just doing intensives at our flagship location in Texas. So. Yeah, and what I. What a marriage intensive looks like is there's two licensed therapists that conduct the intensive and then there's four couples that attend. And do you want to add anything to that?

Yeah. So the, the intensives were kind of came alongside a lot of what was already happening at Windshape on some levels. And so when Stephen or Jan got the idea to. To help couples, they really didn't know what it was going to look like. They didn't know what shape it was going to take. They didn't know the therapeutic modality to use. And that's when, because of the personal family connections with Terry and Sharon, that they kind of started reaching out there. And then it just kind of grew to where there were contacts at Chick Fil A and at Windshape. And there were some people like Sean Stover and Phillips, Nathan Phillips. And all of those connections started, started to grow. And then it eventually Started to take shape around. Okay, so let's bring couples in and do some concentrated therapeutic work. So this idea of intensives has really gotten a lot of traction, Especially in the last year to three years or so. But the hideaway was really kind of on the cutting edge of a lot of that stuff. As far as offering these different concentrated therapeutic experiences. We call them intensives for a lot of different reasons. And primarily it's because the work is intense. So we always tell couples, like, hey, you're not at a retreat. Like, we're not doing trust falls. This is here to focus on some pretty specific therapeutic directions. And we have integrated over the last 20 years to where we are now to get to a really, you know, tried and true, very pure restoration therapy experience. So we were doing some things initially in the ministry that were integrated from different therapeutic modalities. And then we started seeing like, that wasn't working. We were kind of wasting some time. And so we've trimmed some fat over the last several years, and we've really just gotten it down to pain. Cycle. Pee cycle practice is really the focus of what we do with the couples at the intensives. We see all different things. So you have couples that have been married for a year and have hit a rocky patch already into their marriage. We've had couples that have been married for 30 years and are wanting to just grow or get their marriage better. We've got couples that are divorcing or have divorced, wanting to get back together. Active betrayal. There's new betrayal. There's ministers, there's pastors. It's really a mixed bag as far as the clientele goes. And it's usually really to see the way God kind of orchestrates the couples that are in participation. Because one of the questions Jay gets a lot of pushback from couples when they find out it's a group experience. And when they find out, like, oh, I have to go sit with my spouse, with three other couples and talk about all this stuff in front of everyone. And there's some real hesitancy around some of those things, but usually at the end of the intensive, and that's part of why it's been created and designed the way it is, is because the group process is one of the most powerful of the entire experience. So being able to collaboratively join in and do the process with other people Just really hits a lot of different, very powerful experiences for a lot of the couples that get to come. And initially, part of what I was saying is the ministry branched out to the different locations because we were catching people from all over the country and the world essentially. And so we kind of had the idea like, what does it look like to, as Stephen Rojan were kind of rolling around how to keep the ministry going. What if we had a west coast location and east coast location and then more of a centralized or southwest location, maybe it would accommodate travel or people along those lines. And just through time and through Covid all those experiences, we just kind of realized that the practicalities of some of that stuff were very difficult. And Stephen Regan and the intensive themselves have a very specific way to do the intensives. And a lot of the particularities of the ministry we heard someone describe. I had somebody describe it one time, like the Texas experience as a very boutique experience. And that was not being replicated in some of these other locations. And so the combination of all of that is what caused us to really kind of scale back and realize, let's just keep the focus here in Texas and let's keep it on what we've been doing and focus in on what's working and keep kind of moving in those directions. So those are intensives in a nutshell. And there's intensives all over the country like we've talked about. We're seeing them pop up that focus on just like we've done with anxiety, but we're seeing them in other regions as well. So this is not an entirely new idea. But the highway really was kind of, you know, championing that, that journey along the way.

It is really top notch too. I mean as a, like being. Being around the, the, like the, the marriage realm of helping people. You know, I've had couples that go to other marriage intensives that have, you know, like they come back and they'll have this. I'll ask them what they learned or what, what they get and they, they'd be like, oh yeah, I just learned I need to be nicer, you know, like. Or be something like dumb, you know, and like it's, it's like kind of very psycho educationally focused. A lot of times these other intensives are. Or they're. Or they're way too.

It's like a boot camp.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Or, or they're like so like getting into like very insight oriented. Like we're gonna go deep into your past and we're gonna get everything, you know, and you're like, you know, but like, yeah, great. You got to hold your little child self, which is absolutely beautiful. And we do do that. But I think one of the great things with the hideaway is. It's not only a vessel that kind of gives you a vision of the promised land, but it's actually shows you how to get there too.

That's well said.

Yeah, good.

No, I was curious because I remember like there used you guys kind of talk about those certain pillars that you have for the hideaway. And I'm curious what those are today. You know, I remember what they were in 2010. I don't know if they've changed at all. And if you could maybe talk about what some of those pillars are that make the hideaway unique.

Yeah, I don't think they've changed.

So.

Yeah. So the four pillars, the first one is sequestering these couples away. So yes, it is about a 45 minute drive outside of Amarillo, our location for the hideaway. And couples are driving in the middle of nowhere and they probably think, where are we going?

What's getting creepy?

Yes, getting a little creepy. But once you hit the ranch, then the canyons, it's beautiful. So sequestering away, getting. There's no TVs. You won't. You will not find any media at the location. And I mean we do have cell service and that kind of stuff. But we want couples to sequester away from work, from day to day life from kiddos and really focus on them individually as well as their marriage. The second pillar is hospitality. And I don't know how to kind of go into depth about hospitality because it's.

We're gonna lay it on this one for sure. This is very important.

Yeah. So what are your questions about hospitality?

Well, I think because I was in the whole. The California branch of the. The Hideaway, the. The failure. You guys kicked us out. But I think one of the things that we really struggle with, we had top notch therapist. Well, at least totally. And. But the one thing that we were struggling with was how do you create the, like the, the Steve Trafton Regan experience? Like there's something about the way that Steve has a quick story about anything and sometimes they're not necessarily the most appropriate stories. But it makes it even better though because it's like, yeah, you're, you're, you're human again, right?

Yeah.

And I think some of like the part that we struggled with was that like we didn't have that, that right person. I think we have one now that there's a group called the Marriage Refuge that. That's here. But like the way that he could just whip a story and, and just like that Texan. I mean, you do it too, Jet. Like, just the way that you talk to somebody and just make them feel at ease in themselves, and you're actually really interested in what they have to say. You know, when I was doing my dissertation work, I got into Jacques Derrida and this. This really interesting philosopher who talks about, like, when. When we have someone come, like, into therapy, we had to, like, let them treat them as if they were a stranger, right? That's coming. Coming from, like, a storm outside, and we're welcoming them into our house. Right? So what would you do for a stranger that comes into your house, right? Do you. You want to offer them, like, a cup of coffee, you want to give them water, you want to, like, make them, like, give them the nice seat to sit in? Like, all these types of things around hospitality, that makes a huge difference in a person's experience of being able to be willing to, like, let their guard down. You think? We talk about trustworthiness so much, and I think what the hospitality really does is it really builds out that sense of I can. I can be. This is a safe place for me, which then allows me to also lean into my identity work, right. Of, like, I belong here. I've never, like, how many times have we heard at intensive? Like, I've never felt like. I felt, like, so comfortable just to be myself.

Right.

You know, happens all the time. You were really excited about this topic, too. What were you thinking about?

Well, I think for me, the hospitality piece and we can get back to the other pillars. But no, I was just. Hospitality is what lent itself to the summit. I think, to me, there was a through line of what I experienced at the intensive and feeling like this is a welcoming, safe environment. And I feel like that was reduplicated at the summit to make a great experience for people. And that's not always true at conferences and places we go to. And so I was just. I guess I'm curious about how you guys thought about that as being important not only to the work you do at the intensive, but other stuff that you created, like the summit, like what kind of conversations you had and what you had to, you know, were there certain things that you thought about when you have all these people coming from out of town? Because I just think there's important lessons as therapists we can learn about even if we're not running a conference or intensive, like how we invite people into our office.

Yeah, yeah. Well. And I think that, I mean, there's a direct correlation between what the hideaway does and what we attempted to do with the summit. And I'm reminded in Sunday school on Sunday are the man that was teaching was talking about spiritual gifts, and he was talking about in Scripture, hospitality is a form of a spiritual gift. And he explained how true hospitality is making someone's spirit feel hospitable. And that goes beyond the food you put on a plate. Like, we're not just talking about certain aspects that most people would consider to be what we would look at as hospitality, but it would be this idea of how you interact with people, the ways in which you prepare a place, which I think is what the hideaway does really well, which is what we attempted to do at the summit very well, is almost anticipate what are needs that people coming to this place could have, and how can we in advance meet those needs or work to meet them, even if they weren't sure that they had them or had even expressed them. And so a lot of the things that the hideaway does that we even attempted to do, we can talk more about the summit when we get there in the midst of this conversation. But the hideaway is very intentional about, like, anticipating, like, when they're coming to this place, they're hurting, they're in a different place, they're in the midst of total strangers. And so we want to make sure that we guide conversations to help them feel welcome. We want to make sure that from the time they get out of their car that someone is walking them through where to go and all of the different aspects so that they never feel like they're lost or don't know where they're going or how to find certain things to the point that, you know, if they mention something like, you know, I just really like Pepsi, blah, blah, blah, the next day there's Pepsi in the refrigerator. I mean, just certain things that kind of help to accommodate so that their spirits kind of like you said, Lance, like, the goal is for the space to feel safe so that they can do the work that they're there to do. And a lot of times that goes with little things like the silverware or in the snacks that are put out that they didn't even know that they wanted. Or when they walk in their bedroom that there's a snack basket so they don't have to walk back in. Or it really is just trying to accommodate to the level that it allows souls to feel comforted by the intentionality that kind of surrounds some of those things. And we see it at the intensive, especially just because we want to take any possible need that could divert from the work that they're trying to do off the table so that their focus can really be on themselves and their marriage. And we tried to do the same thing with the summit. Right. And having attended several pressures, professional experience as myself, I can remember walking away from certain ones going like, I'm not even sure they wanted me to be here. They wanted my money, but I don't know if they really wanted me to be here. I don't even think anybody knows that. I mean, like, there were just some things like that that we were trying to be intentional about. And again, when we. When we talk about the summit specifically, we can mention a little more of those details, but I think that it's a. It's a gift. Right. Steven and Jan have the gift. Jet has the gift. Like, it is just part of who they are as people. And so it just kind of spills into the presence that gets created by all of those different little experiences that accumulate to the overall hospitable presence that I think does increase people's safety, which I think. Right. You kind of mentioned this too, Lance. I think we have the opportunity to do on a daily basis, hour by hour, with our clients. We can foster that same spirit as we're walking them into our offices and where they sit and how they leave our offices and our approaches to them. And all of that, I think is part of the therapeutic process. Even though it might just be, you know, putting M and Ms. In a dish on the table, that might make a big difference whether or not you realize it.

Man, those M and M's especially have teenagers. They disappear so quickly.

You gotta be choosy. Yeah.

I used to like the. I used to like the hot tamales coming out to Hideaway.

The hot tamales in the afternoon.

Yeah.

The other two pillars, just so that we can kind of hit those.

Yeah. Full circle. People out there that are listening to this, they're like, aren't there four pillars? I just didn't want my environment.

Yeah, let's just close that loop and we can do. We can come back. Otherwise, I'll be like.

So the first is the idea of sequestering away. The second is the idea of hospitality. The third is the concept of really targeting truth and trusting the therapeutic model. Right. We all believe it. We're bought into the restoration therapy, but the therapeutic model itself focuses on the simplicity of the pain cycle, the pee cycle, and practice. And so we've really been intentional about making sure that when people leave the intensive, whether or not they remember it, what we've Equipped them with is their pain cycle, is their pee cycle. Opportunities to practice it and understand it. So the therapeutic modality, four steps. The four steps, right? That's where we've really kind of anchored into as this is one of the pillars that we're going to hold to. And throughout the years, there had been some offshoots and there had been some things that had kind of gotten brought in or woven into the experience that we were like, this is not going to work. This is not pure. This is not pure in its form. We've got to get rid of some of this stuff. We got to like even so much so to the language that the therapists are using and working with clients around, like, we all know how powerful those kinds of things can be. Not scripting the intensives, but almost getting really tight. We've got a really specific therapist therapeutic manual that all of our therapists follow that really kind of keeps them focused in on the therapeutic modality. So the third pillar really, is that the therapeutic intervention? Yeah, it's exactly what it looks like. Yeah, that's exactly what it is.

Lance is holding up the intensive model manual there. It looks like.

Yeah.

It'S a great read, guys.

And then the fourth pillar is this idea of intercessory prayer. So one of the things that happens once a couple leaves is that Stephen or Jen give them the option to join into a prayer list. So for the last 20 years, they have been accumulating a listserv that has every. Almost every single participant who's been at the intensives, plus hundreds of others. So by the time that they show up, everyone on that intercessory prayer list has been sent an email. I'm not mentioning anyone specifically at all, but just mentioning today marks the day of the start of an intensive. Please go to your prayer closets. Consider what the work that's going to be happening here. And the intercessory prayer is a significant pillar of what we lean into at the hideaway. Because again, we make no apologies that this is a Christian resource for marriages, and we kind of stand on some of those tenets and we incorporate them throughout the intensive. But the prayer piece is a very powerful one along the way, and it's really fascinating to see. As a therapist, I usually chalk this up to this specific pillar, to the prayer that's gone into the events. You start to see consistent, like patterns or connections between the couples that are there. We've seen stuff happen. Like, we just had a story a few weeks ago about someone who was at a walk to Emmaus. And there was this random connection that took place that could only have been God in the way that it had all kind of gotten woven together. And so that pillar really is a significant one as far as the spiritual practices that are taking place and the warfare that's happening on behalf of these couples is a really. A really big piece of their overall experiences.

Do you guys still do the, like, the same morning devotions every. I don't want to give anything away, but, like, is that. Is that still, like, the same exact morning devotions?

Probably, yeah. So the. We've. Yes. They're the same scriptural passages that we've used pretty consistently. And we do try to start each day to kind of set the tone for where we're going, because a big piece of what I think is really powerful that we get to do. We see this sometimes in our practices on a daily basis. But really, at the intensives, you get to make explicit. I always use the expression that psychology is finally catching up to what Jesus has been doing the whole time. And we really kind of make that explicit at the intensives. Like, hey, we're talking about old man and new man. We're talking about this in Ephesians, and guess what we're talking about. We're talking about your pain cycle and your peace cycle. And so those devotions are kind of intended to hit on. This is not just, like, popular psychology. This is, like, what God is calling us to do. This is about transformation, this is about sanctification, and this is about growth. And this is the process that we believe is going to get you there. And so those devotions are still pretty consistent, and they're intended to kind of, you know, set the. Set the map to where we're headed and to make those connections a little more explicit for the participants. Yeah.

So who would you recommend coming, like. So we have therapists that listen to this. Obviously, I. I guess there's a few clients that are out there, too, that really like to know what happens behind the curtain. But tell me, like, who would. Like, if you're a therapist and you're working with a couple, like, is this. When do you recommend in the process, like, would you. Is this. Like, I should send my. My couple to the hideaway? Like, the. Oh, man, you really need a lot of help. Just go to the hideaway, like. Or, you know, who do you recommend going and then who's not good?

Yeah.

So.

I think everyone benefits. So if you're a couple in my office, you have been told about and are continually told about attending an intensive. These are couples. I tend to try to refer it to everybody that I come in contact with. As far as a couple, I think it can benefit. Jet and I had the opportunity back in 2019, when California was still open, to actually attend as participants. And so she and I went and went through the entire process for a lot of different reasons. We wanted to work on our marriage first and foremost, but we wanted the opportunity to experience what they were like from a participant's perspective. So I tend to hold a perspective that I think any couple is going to get something out of it. So regardless of where they're at, the intensity of what's going on in their relationship, I think they can be beneficial. I also think that timing can sometimes be important as well. I typically tell couples, depending on where they're at in the process of the therapeutic modality or therapeutic process, depending on where they're at in that process, they're going to get different things out of the intensive. Oh, yeah. If you have a couple and in the first session, they're coming to you and they're working on a fair recovery, and you make a recommendation to go to the hideaway, and they somehow get signed up for that month's intensive, and boom, they're there. It's almost like they're going into the emergency room. And so the intensive becomes the emergency room. And so a lot of what the intensive will do is kind of stop the bleeding. And so the example I always give is, okay, great, you've been. Now we need to get you into icu, so go back to your therapist. You got to keep working. This is not the end. This is the beginning of your process. So let's get you back into your sessions with your individual or your couples counselor, and let's let you keep going, because you still got to move through some healing here. That's not just going to happen at the intensive. If you've had a couple that you've worked with for eight to 10 or so sessions, and you've worked through some of that initial, you know, they probably have their pain cycle and their pee cycle. They move through some of the initial betrayal, and then they drop in. It's kind of like you're sending them from the ICU to go to physical therapy. So you're moving them not necessarily from emergency room to icu. Maybe they're in the ICU and you can push them through into some physical therapy. So the intensive is really good to move them into that next kind of phase of treatment across the board. So it really is kind of just dependent. And I always, I always, every intensive I work, I make sure that the couples that are there understand this is not the end. This is a point along your journey. You are not. I highly discourage them to see the intensives as being the end all, be all. We very rarely see a couple in our offices or at the intensives that go to the intensive. And then all of a sudden everything's fixed and everything is healed and everything is right where they want it to be. It takes some follow up care on either end of the intensive across the board. So I tend to take the perspective anywhere in the process is workable, but they're going to get something out of it at different points. And even in your therapeutic sense, like you might be able to make the decision like, I don't think you're ready. We're still too dysregulated. I know what's going to happen at this intensive. And so I need. We need a few more sessions to kind of get this rolling. You can kind of gauge that on some levels we typically try to screen. Right. So when Jet, when they call Jet, when they have the conversations with her, initially she is screening for some specific things. We're specifically looking for things like active addictions. Those tend to contraindicate couples treatment. We look for active affairs. So if the couple has had an affair, we're fine with that. But one of our questions to understand is, is the affair continuing or has the affair been ended? And so she's really trying to get an idea around some of those kinds of things. And then we ask about severe mental illness or mental health diagnoses because we just kind of want to get a heads up around if they're coming in with some significant mental health concerns or if someone has been labeled or given a specific diagnosis. We just kind of like to get a heads up around those things. Now this is assuming that the individuals who call report honestly, like we all know, really.

And I also do ask if there has been a domestic violent episode. Just because in a group setting like that, it's not. Yeah, it's not the best place. So.

Yeah, what if there's therapists listening? I don't. I'm curious where you two are in the moment. At the Hideaway. You know, I remember just going and sitting in third chair and observing and kind of helping before I went on staff. And I'm wondering, are you, are there opportunities for other therapists to like check it out or to, to. Are you training therapists at all at some point? Are you guys good right now with your full. You don't need any more therapists? I'm just curious for those listening.

Yeah, this question is unique.

You don't have to answer it either.

No, I think this question is unique. We no longer offered third chair observation. That is no longer an option with the hideaway. It got too complicated and convoluted and the logistics of some of it, I mean, they're feeding 12 people or 10 people. You add in another. There's just some sleeping arrangements. There's just some things about it clunky. And so typically what we do is we start looking to train for the intensives when we have vacancies and openings. And usually we kind of get an idea of who's interested. So we've had several therapists, especially since the summit, expressed interest because it is. Intensives are just becoming more popular. And so getting involved is something that we. We have people who are interested. And so usually when we have vacancies or openings, we start going through and essentially kind of a process of elimination about availability. We make sure that they understand what the commitment looks like as far as traveling and the financial commitment and leaving your practices. And there are lots of. And your families. There's lots of things to consider that go into being a therapist on the team that you don't really understand until you kind of get to some of those conversations. Because it's a. It's an investment on a lot of different levels for everyone involved. And then you have to be willing and understand some of those things up front. And so we usually the team right now we have six therapists is who we work with. And that's usually the sweet spot, is where we kind of try to keep it. We're anticipating in the next year that there's going to be some turnover. We're in the process of having conversations around what does this need to look like and who do we want to train? And the. The ministry itself is in the midst of some transition that we're also praying and being intentional about understanding what does this look like and how do we. Is there longevity here? What is. If there is, what does that mantle look like as far as being passed and when and what. And all those kinds of things that are just to be perfectly transparent still question marks. And so there's. There's some things like that. So the question is there's not a clear answer, is my point.

Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. I do know. Lance, Lance, you know what the number one rule is? If you're working on if you're doing an intensive at the Hideaway is do not take pictures of the awesome food and send them to your wife who is at home with two kids, struggling with little toddlers and stuff. Just, you know, getting by. And I'm sending, like, rookie mistake, Brookie. That's the rule.

Yeah. Like, with hospitality. The food is so freaking good. I. I would like getting ready for the intensive. I would have to, like, like, oh, man. Like, there's gonna be. I have to fast one meal or something because it's so freaking good that, like, they had this, like, really awesome menu they've put together.

It's.

Yeah, it's amazing.

I would. I would encourage people that are listening, that are interested in. In joining or being a part. Reach out. Like, it's way more helpful for us to know who's interested than it is to figure out and try to figure out who might be interested when the need arises. And we always encourage. Right now, the stance we're taking is go to one. If you're interested in working one, go to one. Be a participant. It's going to benefit your relationship and your marriage, and you get a better idea about whether or not that's something you really want to do. And then once we make those decisions, we just kind of incorporate the therapist as part of. It's kind of a learn while you're doing experience. So the training itself is really you're doing and leading and intensive. But it's always. I would highly encourage anybody that's interested. Just reach out to us, let us know you're interested, and then we can kind of keep that in our think tank as far as building the team and flushing the team out and those kinds of things.

Yeah, it's like those hair loss commercials. Like, I'm not only. Not only is spokespen, I'm also.

Yeah.

They don't even do those anymore, do they?

I don't think they do.

I don't know. But we're going to take a hard pivot here, Lance. So I'm thinking it's August, so we're six months removed from the summit. And as that just kind of a jumping off cue, I'm just curious of Jet of you and Tanner. A year's reflection on the summit.

Six.

Six months out. Things that stand out to you that you learned, you know, that were helpful, you know, maybe things you would even like, do differently because, you know, we hope to do more summits in the future. Well, we don't hope. We're going to plan. We're doing summits.

Yeah, yeah.

2027 realized. Yeah. And you know, we can't expect Jet and Tanner to do the next one.

For us all either.

So want to kind of glean from you two just how you're thinking about the summit six months out.

Yeah. So to be honest, that week leading up and during the summit and even after, even though it was a lot of work, it was sometimes exhausting, it was so life giving. Just. I know I am not a therapist, but my sweet husband who spends hours in the therapy room, seeing him amongst other therapists who are very like minded, it was just. I just stood back and just watched all of y' all just, I don't know, fellowshipping, hugging, laughing like crazy. I mean, it was just, it was very life giving. So I, there were some things that I would totally change, but we just, we were honored to, to plan it and we were very gracious to, you know, Terry and Sharon just said, do what you need to do. You have our support. And our committee was amazing and we, we really wanted to honor Terry and Sharon doing it in the area and the location of where RT began. And we wanted to share the roots of RT to all the therapists that were attending the intensive. And so we just wanted, we wanted people to come and feel loved on and filled up while they were here. And we wanted them to see the crazy coolness of Amarillo, I guess. So we did a lot of like, we did a lot of local caterers that we used in our coffee, all of our lunches and breakfast. And then we tried to do fun like flower arrangements, had, you know, cowboy boots and we had Amarillo pins and stickers and mugs. And we just wanted people to feel, well, yeah, there you go. Feel welcomed. But also it was like a memory.

That.

That Amarillo is, is a place that RT was started and is flourishing and still part of. And we want people to come back, you know, so that was kind of our intention, planning all of it. So.

Yeah, well, we tried to take a. We tried to take a 30,000 foot view and a 30 foot view and incorporate the two together. So we knew as a committee and as the ones kind of the boots on the ground here in Amarillo. We knew what we hoped to achieve. Right. So we knew our 30,000 foot view, which was we wanted a group of like minded individuals to be able to come together, to connect together and have intentional opportunity to really make good, heartfelt, strong connections with one another. And we also wanted everyone to feel like they were valued in part of the overall Restoration therapy community. So those were kind of. In addition to. We wanted there to be a level of. I don't know how else to say this, but professionalism, because a lot of the people in the community, I mean, are heavy hitters, they're good at what they do, and they're bringing in lots of different experiences from their own practices, and we wanted to be able to capitalize on those things as well. And we wanted to figure out how to incorporate all of that into one two day experience. And then we kind of started working backwards from there. Okay, so if we want to have people connect, well, then what needs to happen in the schedule in order for that to take? If we want them to feel as though they're being cared for, okay, then what does that look like as far as anticipating some of their needs? If we want to have an offer some of the professional experiences, what does that look like and who is asked as far as guest speakers and breakout sessions, and what are the tones and the timbers that we want to take with some of those kinds of things across the board? And then we just got really intentional, right, about trying to capitalize on the idea of Texas and how that some people may not have ever been to Texas or in this place, and really wanted to kind of showcase that Amarillo has some things to offer in addition to using the resources that are local, because we think that's important, but then also being able for people to kind of have firsthand experiences with those things in a way that made them a little more accessible across the board. And the feedback that we've gotten pretty consistently since then in the last six months has been that we achieved our goal. So the majority of the people that participated talked about how, like, I didn't even realize how much RT felt like a family. And it really is because we think, like, okay, we kind of create an environment for that to be what was happening. And so future summits, which will probably not be in Amarillo, I think it's safe for me to say that similar even if they're in a different area of the country. So we don't feel like we did anything that can't be replicated. We actually feel like this is very doable regardless of where you go, because of the people that are connected to it. And so we have full confidence that we didn't want it to just be like a conference that you show up to and leave. We wanted it to be, as is evidenced by this podcast and some of the work that you guys are doing like this, to be a Continual relationship development amongst professionals who are like minded on more than one level. And we really feel like some of that momentum has gotten started and taken place. So.

Yeah, I. I love what you're saying there. I mean, I think. And Rhett, you might want to jump on this too. But I was thinking about this idea of, like, the intentionality. I think this is like, even when you're thinking about doing therapy, it's like, what's the goal of where you want people to go? I think this is, like, the gift of hospitality that you guys have is like, when we're thinking about our therapy rooms, how we welcome people into the room. Rhett was talking about this beforehand that, you know, do you. Do you usher people in and usher them out? Do you. What. How. Do you. Do you offer them a coffee? Do you offer them a water? You know, is your furniture comfortable? You know, like, what are the. What are those things you're thinking about? I just think that's what you guys absolutely did. I've been trying to think of.

Well.

Brett, did you want to say anything about that? I have this word that just came to mind for.

To.

Just to describe the experience, too.

No, go ahead.

So I was like, what word? If I could, like, come up with one word just to describe the whole experience, it would have to be classy. Like. Like, I. I felt like. Like, it was super classy.

That's kind.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, like.

Like, first off, it's classy as in you're experiencing a room full of people eager to learn. Right. It's classy. Like you're walking into a room of people where you belong, and it's, like, safe. It's connected. We all care about each other and where we're going. I just. I thought it was, you know, just super classy. Right.

I can't get the Ron Burgundy San Diego out of you ever.

Lance, can I. Oh, could do San Diego next. Keeping it classy in San Diego.

Yeah, I mean, I think, again, going back to the through line, I think whether we're doing an intensive or a conference or we have a private practice, I think the role of hospitality is super critical and being intentional. From how you organize your office space to how you greet the people in the lobby, to being on time for your sessions, to providing water or coffee. You know, I just. I think there's a lot of things that it's important for therapists to do and think about, and I think I'm fortunate enough to have been around a lot of mentors that modeled that early on. Because sometimes when I'm see in the therapy community as a whole, I think there's a, sometimes a lack of hospitality and a lack of intentionality. And I don't know, I just, I think maybe that goes back to if, you know, for practicing restoration therapy, making people feel loved and trust. Right. Safe in this environment. It all starts with how we show up for them. And so I just, again, I think that's important and I think that was on display at a big, more macro level at the summit. So anyways, well, job well done, you two. We've been wanting to have you on for a long time, but I know we're all busy, so. And you two probably quite took you a while to like catch a breather after that.

It did, yeah, it did and it was, it was our pleasure, but it was also, it pushed us on some, on some levels. And it's not anything like. I've said this to the committee before and I'll say it to anybody that's listening that isn't interested in helping. When you are the boots on the ground, the responsibility just falls on you. And that was a mantle we were willing to take on and that we did so willingly and it produced a really positive result, we feel like. And so the, the intensity of it was expected, but it was also just kind of part of what we signed on for. And we would totally. We would do it again just because of how we feel about the community and what the work that Terry and Sharon have invested in us as, as individuals, but also as professionals.

And.

It'S exciting to think about. I mean, I think I can think about when we first started having conversations, we hoped we would get like 50 people. And as the numbers kept growing, it was like, okay, this is. This is saying a lot about how the community is responding to this. And we're anticipating that those numbers grow even more with the next one. So it's cool.

And I think there's a call to action here. I mean, yeah, those converse when you talk about a committee, it was just people who were at an intensive training and windshape talking late one night of like, oh, we should put a summit on. And I think, you know, for RT to continue to grow and develop, in some ways it's going to require more and more people just getting involved who have gifts like you two to want to show up. And the summit, though it may seem far away, 20, 27, there's a lot of work to be done. Right. Starting now. So if you're listening to this and you Want to be involved at any level. Like, behind the scenes with paperwork, with boots on the ground, depending on the specifics of location, to helping people sign up to any gifts you have. I say we. I say. And by that I mean the RT community would welcome any. Anyone's involvement.

Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah. This is so great. I just really enjoyed it. And we could certainly use help coming up for the next one. Yeah, Definitely gonna be Southern California. We just haven't made our minds up yet if we're gonna do San Diego or if we're gonna risk going for Pepperdine. What was it we had the first time? It was free. There's like, a fire. And then the second time it was Covid.

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

I think Terry is now taking responsibility. I think at the last summit, he says, wow, here's what it takes to pull off a summit. I just don't. Can't be involved in it.

It's not the location, it's the planner.

Yeah.

What do you. I was just curious, what do you two enjoy the most? I don't know about the work you do, whether it's, you know, the hideaway or therapy practice as a whole ministry stuff. What do you. What do you two, as a couple, like, just enjoy doing the most.

Or.

What feels really life giving, you know.

I mean, I think we would probably say similar things, but the first thing that comes to mind for me is one of the things that's most rewarding for me, and I can see this in my practice. I can see this in some of our own relationships or when it comes to hospitality or the intensive. For me, it's seeing a vision, seeing where I think I want to get or that we can get or something that could be possible, and then watching it unfold and land there. So, like, if it's with the summit, like, we had a. Literally what we envisioned happened. Like, it really unfolded and then some. When I think about my clients and the work that I hope they're able to accomplish, like, I see where I want them to go and where I think is going to be good. And I hear their goals and what they want for themselves. And when you see that unfold, it's like, wow, this is really incredible. With the students that I teach as a professor, it's the same thing. Like, I want them to have an experience, and I can see where I anticipate things changing for them, even in some of our own, like, couple friendships and relationships, and we might invite people over for dinner. It's like, here's what I want this to Be for us. And then when it happens, it's like, okay, this feels really good. And people feel cared for, administered to. So I think as a couple, that's one of the things I think we do pretty well is we kind of see things and see what we want things to become and the experience we want people to have. And then we kind of operate within our own skill sets and drivings to kind of get those things there and make them happen. And we're actually wired very similarly. We're both pretty efficient and we're both pretty type A and we have the same standard representations. And so it works really well because we kind of understand where we need the other and we can kind of feed into that on some levels and. And we kind of know what's important to the other person. And so we kind of help anticipate some of those needs as well. But that's probably what I would say.

Yeah, I would ditto that. And on top of it, there are times where I'm working out at the intensive as well as Tanner's in the therapy lodge room. And it's just sweet for me because I've been in touch with these four couples for months on end, making sure they are aware of what's about to happen, getting them to this place on this day. And I'm in the kitchens, you know, working on all the meals, on all the plating, making them feel as special as they can. And same time knowing my husband is out working on their. Their hearts. And it's pretty powerful when he comes into the kitchen. And I just, you know, I can just tell that it's just heavy and I can know how to pray for him and be in that moment with him. And he walking into the kitchen knowing, like, I just burnt something and it's not going well and I need some, you know, I need some time with him. So it's. I would ditto the same thing. As well as when we're working at the intensive together. It's pretty. Pretty powerful for. For us as well.

That's so awesome. I think, yeah, it's a huge part of vision is like knowing that in the vision, like the hope that we're going to get there means that there will be darkness along the way.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Not an automatic.

Yeah.

Well, as a couple, like, I was.

We were.

I was. I was thinking about this the other day, but if you walked into the closet of our bedroom, you would see on the wall our original pain cycle and pee cycle. And when we were within our first year of marriage, we sat through Sharon's strong ministry success, her strong marriage, successful ministry class at Fuller, and had desserts with her every week. We did that. And since then, Restoration Therapy has woven into the fabric of our relationship. And so I think a lot of the ways in which we function is because of what Restoration Therapy has given us as a couple. It really speaks to a lot of the. The power that that process can have.

So good.

In school, I mean, that's. I walked out of that first time experience in the Hideaway as the third chair, and I went home and I practiced my four steps over breakfast. My wife didn't know what I was doing, you know, and then we went to Pepperdine a couple years later and did the training with Terry and Sharon. I can't remember what it was called then, actually. It was a different name, though.

Relate.

There was a marriage.

Marriage. Strong.

Yeah.

And I know you and Jen have done similar stuff. And so it's obviously that the Hideaway and RT and how that's all interwoven has impacted our family lives and relational lives at a deep, deep level.

Right, right.

You know, and you can thank Rajan and Steve and Terry and Sharon for that.

Yeah.

Pretty awesome.

Absolutely.

Well, hey, I know we're top of the hour, which means as a therapist and as a professor, you guys got. And as a hideaway.

Ministry administer. Yeah, Minister ministry.

Yeah.

We all have work to do, and I'm heading off to lunch because my daughter's leaving for college in four days, so her and I are going to grab some lunch. And Lance still has a daughter at home, not starting school yet, so he's got his hands full. Right.

Oh, man, it's. It's the joy. Such a cute kid.

Well, we appreciate you having you two on, and we look forward to having you on again longer. And we'll just go deep with a lot of other subjects as well.

Yeah.

Thanks for taking the time.

Thank you, guys.

Cheers.

See ya.