Season 1 | Episode 45 | Special Guests, Nancy Frigaard, Jennifer Smith & Lorenzo Cantoja

Step 1, 2, 3, 4. When my heart is sore I know the way to help me feel better there's four steps I'll take to stop my heartache I know the steps will make me feel better Will make me feel better Will make me feel better. Step one, I say just how I feel down inside Step two, I remember what I used to try Step three, Shout the truth cause it sets me free Step four, Then I choose the new way to be Feelings change and that's okay I can learn a brighter way When I think and choose what's right I can make my world more. Step 1, 2, 3, 4 When my heart is sore I know the way to help me feel better there's more steps I'll take to stop my heartache I know the steps will make me feel better Will make me feel better. Make me feel better.

Man.

That's a catchy number.

Dude, do you think you can pull that dance off?

Dude, I am. I think it's coming up. I think maybe for the. For our, like, party episode, we'll do it.

Yes. Sorry, people. We. I think they tried to convince us to do the dance number, but I'm gonna have to get into my truth a little more before you see me dancing.

It's coming, Rhett. It's coming.

Yeah.

And I pulled my funny bone.

Good stuff, man. All right. You got a couple announcements?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. So real quick, please keep on looking at the level one trains. I know we have Jason up in Portland areas doing one, and we also have Michael Cox doing one. And the dates are listed on the sub stack. And then I forgot to mention this. I don't know if I mentioned it last time, but Ron Deal, one of our really good friends, has a training coming up December 18th through the 19th. Really good deal, guys. Two days and you'll learn everything about blended families that you could ever think about. He's. He is such a great teacher. So I would definitely recommend putting that on your list.

I.

It's. You can reserve a spot for $375. And so get on it, guys. Yeah.

And this is another intro before the actual podcast because we just wanted to play this song for you. So. Hey, watch it on the video. If you're listening to us, you can see it on Spotify or YouTube. We'll put the links in the show notes. They did a great job. We had a blast with Nancy and Lorenzo and Jennifer on this episode.

These guys are awesome. You guys are. Love this episode.

Yeah. And you'll hear us. We're going to Bring them back on just to do multiple episodes of just interventions. Because they got a. They got a lot just like Tanner we did with him. These. They have a lot of great interventions we just didn't have time for.

Yeah, ma'. Am.

Oh, one last thing we got to tease. In the new year, we're gonna be talk. We're gonna be talking about a new graduate school.

Wait for it.

Right?

That's right. It's gonna be awesome.

Good to see you, man.

All right, later, professor people.

Episode 45. Later.

Enjoy.

Lance, what's up, man?

Rhett. I am excited for today, my friend. We have some really cool guests coming at us, and I guess I know.

That would be watching video for this, right? You want to explain what you're doing?

I mean, if you have your video today, we have some. Not only do we have some beautiful people, but we also have some fun characters that are coming to today's episode with Nancy Freegard's practice. And some of her amazing, awesome stars are coming at us live today. I'm super stoked. So if you have. If you're listening to this on Spotify or YouTube, switch it to the video. You're gonna have some good fun today. How are you doing, Rhett?

I'm doing good, man. I'm doing good.

Did you use any of your holiday practices from Dee Dee and. And Sharon?

I was very mindful of the fact that I'm always trying to now work for. I have a tendency to cut off relationships sometimes when they don't going well. So I'm working hard on maintaining relationships. That's all I'm going to say. So I was very mindful of the podcast and I was also. Eyes are watering today. My daughter was back for the first holiday from college, so I was very. It was Gonzaga sent out an email about how your kids change when they go to college and what to expect when they come back. And as a therapist, I thought I was kind of already in tune with that, but it was good to be aware of things are different when they come home. And so it was a great break, actually. We had a great time. So.

Yeah. So you connect with Billy. Billy the Escape Goat.

Why don't you go ahead and introduce everybody?

All right, all right.

Episode 45.

Here we go. We're stoked. 45. We got Nancy Freegard with us. Jen Smith. Jennifer. Do you like Jen? Jennifer?

Jen. Yeah, it's easier.

Jen. All right.

All right.

And Lorenzo Cantoja.

Yeah, My friend.

These guys are out in Arizona, close to. Is this where you grew up? Rhett.

Yeah. Pretty close. Yeah. Family's still out there, so I kind of know where the offices are located. And I went to the Phoenix extension at Fuller for many years, so it's kind of cool to see the work they're doing out there. Yeah.

Nancy, you was at Fuller. Now she's gone out and she's, like, making her own. She's like, you know what? I'm gonna make my own school. That's what I'm gonna do. What people do.

Yep. We need. We need good schools and RT training in Phoenix.

And, yes, so I am. Talk to us about it.

Yeah.

Or yourself.

So, yes, so I am Nancy Freegard. I'm just super excited to be here with you guys. And we were talking a little bit before. Lorenzo and I are feeling a little bit starstruck, listening to the RT podcast now. We get to be at it. So. But, yes, I am currently in Peoria, Arizona. And fun fact, Rhett grew up in the neighborhood that I live in. That is true. So. So, yeah, so lots of crossovers here. And. And so we are here today to talk about RT and kids restoration therapy and kids and our coping characters and. And different. Different things about that. So we have puppets and all kinds of things to talk through. But. But, yeah, Nancy Freegard, I. A lot going on. So what.

Yeah, well, tell. Tell us how you got to rt. I'd like to hear how all of you even got to rt, because that's always interesting to me, you know, because people don't come just straight from Pasadena all the time. They kind of find themselves RT in different locations. So how'd you. How did each of you get here? I'll start with you, Nancy.

Yeah, so I went to Fuller, Phoenix. I was in the first cohort out in Phoenix when they started the. The counseling program out here. So the MFT, I was in that first cohort, and so 2012, and went through that program. And so I had Terry as a professor and was learning all about the new contextual therapy, and that's, you know, what he was teaching. And it just really stuck with me. I thought it just made so much sense, as I think all of us did when we were students learning and something I could really sink my teeth into, so to speak, as a new therapist. And then I was invited by Gloria Gabler. She was the program director at the time. And they were. Were wanting to have marriage groups for the students with marriage strong at the time, relate strong. And so I was invited out to Pepperdine to get trained in that so that I could Help the. The student body with, you know, any marital issues. And so that's where I met Terry and Sharon, and that was in 2015.

Okay.

And so met them as a couple, and my husband and I went to that. And it was. It was actually like the week of our 20th anniversary, and we were.

Pepperdine. Sounds romantic.

Yes, it was. Yeah. Gorgeous. Beautiful place. So we were having our own marriage issues at the time and just trying to figure out. And being a student, you know, when we're MFT students, we're realizing all the things that we're doing wrong. And. And then. And then also the things we're doing right. And there can be some, you know, unfortunately, some hubris there where we, you know.

Yeah.

And so at least, you know, for me, sadly. So. So anyway, we. We went to this conference and we were having our own issues, trying to solve them, and it just. Terry and Sharon, you know, they take you through the experiential exercises right there. And we mapped out our pain and peace cycles, and we were like, whoa, this is. This is incredible stuff. And you mean I can emotionally regulate within, you know, less than 10 minutes. I can. I can do that because I. As we're going to talk about the coping. You know, our coping. Blame, shame, control and escape. I was what I've now named for kids Eddie the Escape Goat. And. And I would just be like, hey, I'm out. This is. This is too, too much for me. And. And I learned that I needed to hang in there. So. So it was really, really super impactful to our own marriage. And I think that's. That's really what got us both super interested in our team.

And my wife and I were at the same one there.

You were. That's right.

Yeah. Same time. I remember, like, you refresh my memory, like a month ago when we saw each other that. Oh, yeah. We were talking about Arizona and stuff. So. Yeah, I remember going and learning. That was it. Was it called then Married Strong.

Yeah, very strong. Yeah.

And how cool it was to introduce my wife to kind of what I was already trying to practice on my own and learn, you know.

Mm.

And that's cool. So you come. You. So you were the first class, 2000 or not the first class starting at Fuller Extension 2015 with Gloria. Gloria Gabler. You had Terry as your teacher. Right. And then Jennifer. When did you come into Fuller?

So I'm still pretty new. So I went to Fuller starting in 2021 at the. Yeah, Phoenix. Fuller, MFT. And I was there right when Terry came to Phoenix, like In person. So I. This is crazy. I didn't know who Terry was, and he was in my formation group, so I got to know his, like, personal story, share my personal story before I knew Terry was Terry. So it was a awesome thing. And I also had the privilege of having him as my professor for many classes. And so he always would talk about, like, as a new therapist, you need a modality to just kind of help ground you, let you know where you're going. And I remember thinking, like, oh, my gosh, I don't know. Nothing felt right. Nothing fit. And then through marital therapy and Nancy, I had her as my professor for child and adolescent, and she, you know, had us read her book. I wish I had it right here, but her book. And yeah, there you go.

Say the name of it. A playful approach.

There you go. And I remember reading through that and it all clicking. So I. I felt like RT's first introduction for me was through the kids lens. I have a background in children's ministry, for that's what I was doing. Plus I have a family. And so I wasn't sure if I wanted to do kids work. When I became a therapist, I knew I wanted to work with families, but, you know, no one was excited about working with kids like my cohort. And so I was like, well, is something wrong with that? If I did want to. But Nancy said something and it just hit that passion for me. You know, she used the verse that Jesus says, like, let the little children come to me. And I've like preached on this. This is like a life verse of mine is let the little come. Or, you know, the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these. And I just think that in that moment I was like, okay, I'm definitely working with kids. That solidified it. And our tea is definitely the way because as I took more classes with Terry, did relate strong with Sharon, level one trained last October. So I just had all these, like within two years, just rt. Rt. RT started my practicum with Nancy's book. We had the privilege, or I had the privilege again of working out of school. So I was seeing like six, seven kids a day. And I just had this book, brought the puppets. And as a new therapist, it's like, what do you do with six, seven kids back to back? And I just had this manual and I really just copy pasted, copy pasted and got so much practice. We talk about the four steps. I felt like I got to really solidify that brain changing practice myself, just getting all those reps in. And I Got to see incredible change with kids because there I didn't get to work with the parents. I didn't have that access specifically at the school. So it was just like, yay, I had something and I just got more passion and as I saw it working. So.

And then I want to say I saw Jen at the. At the RT summit at. Where we had. And to see her in action.

She.

We did. She did this intervention where I'm sure we'll maybe talk about. It's in. It's in the. In the rt. Yeah. It's in the playful approach.

Yeah.

So the playful approach. It's. It's an awesome book. If you work with kids, you have to get this book. It's like such a. It's like such a gift. It's like, hey, a kid's in the room. Here's 20 things you can do. It's amazing. You got to get it. But yeah, Jen has this amazing, like, I don't even know what to call it. Like, energy spunk. Like. Like. Like just this powerful presence to see the way she works with kids.

And we.

We saw it from a, like an adult level. So I just imagine in the room, you're just amazing. So I'm really glad you're here.

Yeah. I think that that's what I love about working with kids. Is it. It's healing a part of me as a kid. It's so cool. I love Is energizing. So. Yeah.

Man, I wish I would have had that book of. I think of all the kids I worked with my practicums and had like no guiding theories or anything because the practice, the practicum I was at was like a psychodynamic maybe there was no practical in the room stuff.

Psychodynamic with kids.

Also known as the best seller there. I have to shout out too. Jennifer, you had one of our other guests as your professor at Fuller too.

Yes. Michael. Yeah.

You say it differently. What's the correct way to say it?

Right.

It is.

He's got to love that. All of us trying to pronounce his name right.

When you hear his name, shout out.

We love you, Michael.

Shout out to Mike.

Yes.

Tell us about you a little bit. Like, how did you come to rt?

Yeah.

So I was in the same cohort as Jen. And what I really liked about RT is the experiential work. So I really. And too, when I am trying to figure out a modality or see if it's like a good fit for me, I really like to experience it first. And you Know, I, yeah, had the privilege to practice that during our classes and really get the experience of identifying my own pain cycle, peace cycle. And it really just clicked for me during that time while we were studying. And Terry also is just. I. I loved. I love some of the things he brought on to the class where he's just showing us how to regulate. I mean, I even use it with some of my kids, too. He does like, I don't know if he's ever showed this too. Just a nice deep breath in, bring the fingertips, shoulders, and slowly exhale and like, oh, right away, that does the trick for me. I was like, okay, I'll follow along with that. It got me curious. I just keep following that same too, with just, you know, even just some swaying, just something like that. He was just introducing me to a lot of these just nice regulating, quick interventions that I could use for myself. And I really fell in love with the four steps. I mean, they're super easy. Just quick. 1, 2, 3, 4, and you're good to go. So for me, RT really just captures just the way I can think and the way that sometimes I can get lost in my own lies and lost in my own pain cycle. And it really helped me reflect on the ways that I can take action to hop back into my own peace cycle. So for me, before I used it on any of my clients, I was like, you know, this is something I could use. And I really loved it. So I thought it was something that was sooner but super beneficial. Also, you know, the way I got involved with it for kids, I mean, I was not. I'm not gonna lie, I was a skeptic of the puppets to get started. I was like, you know what? There's puppets. Like, if I was a kid, like, this would be. Nah, like, this isn't gonna work, right? And honestly, my ego gets humble. Like, it got humbled so quick because how quickly these kids just go to these puppets is pretty awesome.

Crazy.

Yeah, it's crazy. And I. And I love it. And not only did it allow me to really just be free and, like, kind of just even bring my own goofiness to the session where, like, these kids can feel safe and comfortable enough to express themselves through the puppets, but it really just helped me gather a better understanding of the kids in their lives in general, you know, I mean, you can only, like, like, like you're saying Rhett, like, where you're, you know, kind of psychodynamic. Like, you don't. There's not really a model here. This really is A manual, you know, that you can use and bring out in your sessions that I thought was really helpful.

Yeah.

And too, I mean you can only talk about, you know, so much Skibidi, whatever, you know, all. All so much. Eventually, eventually you want to actually, you know, focus on something that can be healing and beneficial for the client. So I really, I really enjoy RT in that way. It's very experiential and you know, very helpful in my own life as well. So.

I love it.

Yeah. Which Lorenzo, as you were talking it reminded me we need to make sure we mention Yalls event coming up this Thursday. Like in case there's people. Is this going to be recorded where people could refer to it as well. Do y' all want to talk about what's going on?

Yeah, we can.

Oh yeah. So. So this Thursday. Yeah, hopefully we can record it. We're going to the Fuller Arizona campus and they have a winter worship and so Jen and Lorenzo have come up with a script. We're doing a puppet show because every. Everybody's bringing their kids to this event and I think it's going to be pretty well attended. It looks like it so far. And so we're having a Christmas conflict that's going to turn into a Christmas of peace. And the characters are going to transform into their, their peaceful alter egos around the manger scene and yeah. So it should be pretty exciting. They have the best voices too for these puppets.

To shout out. We have two other colleagues, Mike Smith and Isaiah Ariega. Thank you. And they are part of it too. So I don't want to leave them out there. Interns, hopefully RT enthusiasts as well. So I just want to shout them out. They're also part of it.

Yes.

Yeah, they, they're doing a great job too. And they are interns from Fuller and. And they are RT enthusiasts. One of them is going through the faculty led practicum RT with Michael Pachuco. So. So yeah, so we're bringing lots of people into this RT world here.

Yeah. So I would. Okay, so give. For people listening, you all have. There's two. Two locations in Phoenix. Right. And how many counselors, therapists we talking about between the two locations?

So we have 20. About 20. 20. 22 therapists including interns. So we have a lot of interns that come and we train interns specifically at our practice. That's part of our mission is to train competent counselors and faith integrated counselors. So. So we get a lot of Fuller students, a lot of GCU students, ACU interns and are able to expose them to restoration therapy. And, you know, because I supervise all of the interns, and then once they become associates, that's how it works in Arizona. You have a, you know, your internship while you're a graduate student. And then after that you become an associate and you have to be supervised for a couple years minimum. And then we have other supervisors, supervisor, associates, and then once they become fully licensed, they can start supervising interns, too. So we have this whole full circle thing going on, but lots of interns, which is really fun for us. We love to bring them in and help train them at our practice. We have two offices, but we also have like four, four to six other partners, depending on what time of the year it is. So Jen and Lorenzo both got to work in one of our schools. We partner with charter schools, and our interns go there and help do the school counseling and use the RT methods there. And we also partner with Hope Women's center, which is just a place that, that women can come and be helped if they're in any sort of domestic violence or impoverished or just needing help. It's a wonderful organization. And we also have, we work with Thrive, Aged out, foster care, and adoption. And so we have interns go there. And so we're, we're training and using Restoration Therapy in all of these different places.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, Lance, I was thinking that's just like, amazing.

Yeah. And I feel like you and I pretty regularly will get an email from like, Sharon or somebody. And it's usually all the work that this group of people is doing in Phoenix, it's like I get flyers from them and, like, music videos of Jennifer dancing to the four steps. And it just feels like this group in Arizona is doing a lot of amazing work. You guys have your hands on a lot of different things in terms of impacting kids and families. And Lance, I'm just saying that because I want the audience to know that. And so I'm kind of wondering, like, where's the best entry point?

I mean, number one, I think the first part is there's probably some listeners on here today that are like, I don't work with kids I don't like. And I don't think we have to go deep into this, but I think it's worthwhile to note that, like, it's really important. You know, I think Jen kind of started us off with the scripture of, you know, you know, the little ones come to me and, you know, theirs is the kingdom. So. But I think it'll be worthwhile Just to say RT with kids. Like why and who. What? Yeah, walk us why we do RT with kids and why Anybody that's like, well, I don't. Kids are like. It's the parents that need the help. You know, maybe do a quick break off for everybody. That's what I used to call it, a break off, like where you're kind of like calling them out. I'm calling you out today. I felt called out when I got.

I'm super passionate about this, Nancy. I don't know. I know you are too. So if you want to jump in.

Yeah, jump in, Jen, and, and tell us about. About this because. Yeah. That Jen and I both are. Are really passionate about this because we hear that mantra over and over of you can't work with kids or, or we don't want to work with kids or it's not effective. And yes, I think a lot of times that that argument that it's not effective is because people feel ill equipped. And, and so if we can equip people, then we see the efficacy. And so Jen has some really good anecdotal, you know, stories about this being effective. And. Yeah, so. So Jen, I'll, I'll let you talk. Speak to that a little bit.

Well, first of all. Oh, yeah, exactly. So as Nancy is talking and talking about spreading, you know, saying all these things that people might believe, what they're feeling is that they can't work with kids or they don't know how to work with kids. And that's like Lenny's our lizard part of our brain. No, I'm just kidding. If you truly believe that, cool. I believe differently because I've seen differently. So first of all, if you work with a family, like a family system, a lot of times people feel overwhelmed because they're like, how do I meet the parents? How do I blend the kids? What do we do? This is a way. So I start, I like, teach the family with the kids. Like, I'm giving psycho, you know, psycho education through puppets. I'm giving language to the family by, you know, talking about blame, shame, control and escape through puppets through Lenny, through the regulating truth. Dove, teach the family the four steps. So now you've just given the family a way of operating together. So I'll just say that if you work with a family, work with parents, you can use puppets for the kids. Also, if you happen to be in a certain situation where you don't have access to the parents, what do you do? Do you just say, well, I guess I'll just hang out, which, yeah, sure, you know, there's child led play therapy, but sometimes it's really nice. There's just been so many kids that will come in and choose a puppet that they relate to. So they're telling me their pain cycle because I've given them language through the puppets. So now they play with the puppets. They might hug and show care to the puppets. And these are boys, girls. I've had old, like young teens even play the puppets. I taught a undergrad class just with child, child, adolescent using rt. And I had college students, like, so excited doing the puppets, doing the four steps, dance and song. And so, yeah, to Lorenzo's point earlier, just giving language through RT with the puppets is super effective with the kids. And it's direct, more direct. So as a therapist, I think it is a little more validating where you're like, oh, I'm actually doing something. It gives you a sequence to follow so you're tracking better. You're not just like, hey, open, end play. Let me just observe, track, you know, reflect. Let's. Yeah, let's see what happens if I, like, engage, connect, do something. Who would have thought? And I've just seen a lot more movement happen. Faster.

Yeah, that's good.

Yeah.

No, it's funny that we're. Oh, sorry, Nancy. Were you gonna go?

No, go for it.

No, I was just thinking too back to, like, how we're talking about how legalities can get in the way. A little bit of, you know, us as clinicians working with the kiddos and just even thinking about, you know, when it comes to safety, we either see Contessa or Eddie the Escape Goat just coming up, just for now. That's what I was noticing. But, you know, everyone know. And to anyone who's, like, not working with kids again, that's not. Yeah, not, not saying that we're escaping or controlling right now, but that was something that came up to mind because it can feel scary, you know, going into a situation with a family where it feels like things are a little bit out of our control and, you know, we start to feel like, okay, this is, this is big. Or I, I don't want to get into any, like, legal trouble. You know, it can be very tempting to engage with this guy right here and just, just get out of here.

Right.

But I really do think a lot of it too, with these kids. They're not always with their families. Jen and I were having a conversation earlier where, you know, these kids, they're not going to be with their families all the time, right? They're going to have to have some way of regulating themselves as they go to school camps, doing all these extracurricular activities. And, you know, I think RT is just the best place for that. So. Yeah. But I just wanted to hop in because I was noticing. I was like, huh. It is interesting. Yeah. We don't have a lot of clinicians that want to do this, but I can understand. I can truly understand that, though. And some of the reasons.

Yeah. We're in our pain cycles. We feel out of control, unsafe and inadequate.

Yeah.

When we're walking in the room with those kids and we're in our pain cycles. Yeah. So what do we do? We just blame the system. Right. I'm telling you.

Yeah.

You gotta believe.

Let's go. You got it.

If these kids had better parents. Right.

Yeah.

Not me, though. I never would have ever said anything like that.

That's it.

Yeah.

Yes.

I'm smelling really inadequate that I didn't bring all a cartload of stuffed animals with me to this session here.

Missing out.

It's, you know, it's the same thing when they put you in a practicum. And I wasn't, you know, some people follow a track of, like, maybe they want to work with children, adolescents, but when you end up in a practicum, a lot of the people that they put practicum students with is with kids, you know, and so you step in there without any training, any child therapy training, anything really, and you're kind of left in a room of toys and props to kind of figure things out. And that's why I'm like listening to you all talk, thinking of how helpful it'd be to have the RT model with kids and to have language and props for them to be able to access those emotions and stuff. That's just a powerful tool. It makes me wish I could go back and redo some of that. So I. I just love that. I love that your community is engaged in this space because I think it's really important.

Yeah. I will say add this too. I was thinking about this on the way, because four steps is rt. Right. Which is the brain changing practice. So, you know, in kids therapy or children's therapy, you know, it's. We talk about play is their language. So. But play is practice. Right. So we make the four steps playful, which we ought to be, even with adults, just for nuance and stuff like that. We need by making the four steps. That's playful practice. Right.

That's.

They're playing anyways. They're practicing anyways. Let's give them a playful way of practicing. They're doing it anyways. They're gonna do it. So I don't know. That's just something that came to my mind is like, wait, they're. They're already gonna do it.

Let's just, you know, and I. I'll.

Say, like, the things that y' all have developed for how to practice the four steps, like, it is. Like, it. It sticks deeper. Right? I mean, when you're breaking out your shield and. And the lies are coming at you and you're fighting those lies with the. With the. With the. The. The shield and you're batting away, it is like. Like, it touched my heart. Like, I mean, to see that happen of, like, this is RT in practice. This is what we're doing on a regular basis, is we are breaking off these things, and it is such an engaged battle. It's not just this, like, rote mindfulness tool. This is like, when we're leaning into saying the four steps, we are choosing to jump in and fight off this old self, this old mindset that we have. So I think it's just such a brilliant.

I mean.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I.

No, I.

You guys called us. You guys were fanboys coming in. I'm like.

I was wondering just a couple of, like, segues from this because.

Yeah.

You know, I was thinking about some things you all have done recently, which is the RT Kids camp. Right. And, like, the Strong warriors. And if you want to share maybe how that came about and what those programs are, because I think it just adds more even to the work you're doing and moving it out of the office and into some of the communities.

Yeah. So I think something that we're hitting on is just like restoration therapy for adults. It is a more directive approach, and. And it's the same for kiddos. And so we have a roadmap. You know, Terry talks about there's a roadmap to follow as therapists. When we jump into the room with somebody trying to, you know, first we chase the pain. We figure out what the pain is, and then we do. We figure out their coping and lead them into the peace cycle. It's experiential. It's embodying, being actively involved. It's repetitive. And so these things, like the songs that we've come up with and the dance that Jen came up with, just embodying those steps, moving from pain to peace. And so we're always looking for different ways to give kids experiences and so that they can act out their, their pain cycles and their peace cycles. So one of the things that we. We're just starting on on January 2nd is play strong warriors. And so we have this.

And I'll put that up on the show notes the actual handout that Nancy, you're showing. But yeah, show it again for you.

Watching the video and we'll put the slide up. Promised he do it for us.

Yeah, yeah, slide. But. But this is a flyer that we're handing out we have in our offices and we have. Well, Lorenzo and Lorenzo was a college athlete. And then Michael and Isaiah, who are our interns working with rt, they also were athletes. And we have had this plethora of. Of families bringing in their. Their boys, you know, from. From like 6 to to 12 year olds predominantly. And they're, you know, they're. They're kind of dumping them on our lap, so to speak, and saying there's something really wrong with them. They're depressed, they're not socializing, they are super anxious, and they just are grumpy all the time and they're disrespectful. So we were seeing this pattern, as I'm sure you guys probably see it too. And, and so you ask questions and so, so I'm like, okay, so tell me about what does it look like when they come home from school? Are they involved in sports? Are they involved in, you know, music, theater? And.

That'S okay. This is a dogs are welcome.

The mailman's coming or something.

I thought you guys are super excited. I was like, yeah, I hope everybody's.

Gonna take the dog. Wants us to know that we should need. We need to pay attention right now. Six to 12, we got some athletes. We're working this.

I know. So anyway, we're seeing these same patterns and you ask questions and basically the parents are saying the same thing. They come home from school, they sit on the couch, they play video games, they go to their room, they get on their phone. They don't have friends, they're not running around. They're struggling with obesity. So we were putting our heads together, and here we have these athletic guys and we have these groups of young men that are really struggling and they need engagement. They need to get out with friends, get out running around, and also learn how to have emotional regulation when they're feeling depressed, when they're feeling anxious. And so, so we came up with this Play Strong Warriors. It's kind of a, you know, off of relate strong. It's Play strong, a knockoff there. And, and it's For I'm sure Sharon.

Will get a few royalties.

Yes, yes, we definitely will have to give her some royalties. And so, so the, the game plan is really to help these kids emotionally regulate while learning sports basics. And so we're going to do six, six different sports for six weeks each. So we're going to start with soccer. And Lorenzo, talk a little bit more about, about what you're going to do with these kiddos.

Yeah, so a big thing. And too, I followed a big part of the RT kids camp that we originally did. Just going through, you know, just understanding who Lenny is. You know, we might do some things where we're trying to bring out Lenny's voice. You might have some competition, just a little bit of fun where, you know, we can start to invite. I know in, in Nancy's book, one of the interventions she does is like, hold out your arms. You have to spin it right. How long can you spin it right? And then you start to know after like a minute, Lenny's voice gets louder and louder. He's like, no, you can't do it. No, just put it down. This hurts. Stop. No, don't do it. Right. So having some playful competition I think will be great. At the beginning. We're just going to be having them do some competition, see how far they can go, see, you know, and then even have moments time to reflect and see what it was like for them during that time and try to identify where Lenny sits. You know, same thing will go throughout the entire five day sequence or six weeks. But we're just basically spreading it out through weeks rather than one whole week, which. Yeah, one whole week. Jen and I, we found out one whole week of all the RT kids. Maybe we'll just spread it out. But yeah, we're just really looking forward to working with these kiddos. I think in the sports world, you know, a big part of playing sports you can, it can be tempting to really just think, okay, if I perform bad, I am bad, right? Because maybe I get feedback from a parent that's, you know, maybe giving me a scowl if I don't perform the best that I can be or I don't perform to a certain expectation, right? We just want to invite the fun back into the sport where a child, you know, can pick themself back up whenever there is, you know, maybe an error or, you know, a mistake made on the court or field. You can go through your own four steps and get back into playing mode because I don't know, have you guys ever played sports or done anything in the athletic field or anything then. Okay, yeah, yeah.

I'm. I'm a big surfer.

Big surfer now. Okay. Yeah.

Okay.

So. All right, so even. Just thinking about, like. Even. Yeah. Like, for example, surfing. If, say, you got a crowd watching, right. And you're surfing all the time. Yeah. And the one thing you're thinking of, let's say in this example, like, you know, you're thinking, oh, gosh, like, Lenny starts speaking loud, right? And is like, oh, like, what if you fall here? Oh, the coral right underneath. Is this. Is this deep enough water for you? Oh, shoot. Like, should you really be doing this? Like, how old are you? Like, come on. Like, whatever the case is, right where Lenny's coming up, right. Just throwing it out. Just throwing any lies out there. But it can be really easy to slip into those lies and start to listen and be like, oh, okay. Yeah. Right. And if anyone knows, for any type of performance, right. If you start to think about those little details, might try to make any slight correction. Oh, yeah, it's. You're done. Yeah, you're. It's either like, I overcorrect or, you know, I slip into an old bad habit that, you know, is like, maybe something I worked on. Right. But with rt, play strong. We really just want these kids to have fun. Trust mainly the skills and the reps that they've put in. Right. And rely on that during a game or while they're playing and having fun, rather than thinking, oh, I have to be the best right now. Oh, gosh, I'm not performing the best. I need to. Oh, I need to adjust my shot. And then, you know, they're going far over to the right rather than just doing what they normally would practice. Right. So we really want them to. Yeah, just go back to having fun, trusting themselves and the work that they put in and, yeah, just having a good rep. As we're talking about reps overall, just repping those four steps in. Relate strong or, excuse me, play strong.

Yes.

I mean, yes, yes. Yeah, but that's awesome, Lorenzo.

Yeah, I'm super excited. Yeah, I'm really excited. So it's going to be a really good time. Still collaborating with some of our folks here and just, you know, getting all sorted out. But I'm really looking forward to all the fun that we're going to be having. So it's going to be great.

You know, as you were talking, I was just thinking, you know, it's something I think you. You all seem to do well in the clinic is like, innovate in some New areas. And I was just thinking, like, up where I live in Frisco, like, I remember in Men's Health magazine, they ranked it as the number one place in the country to, like, raise an athlete based on all the facilities and fields and training. And I've had more clients in the last three years come in for sports, for sports performance, you know, and I'll use the four steps, but it's not to the extent I like. It's not to the extent of, I think, and applicable to the way that you all are doing, where you get people out, you get them playing, you get them, like, in the field practicing their four steps. And I guess just to say, like, I could see that becoming a really important avenue where RT can be used, because I think the sports world is really lacking the emotional regulation piece. It's a lot more like mindset. Just focus on that, hit that goal. But it seems to be shallow. At least a lot of the experiences I have, it seems to be, when you look at the data, shallow in the sense of just helping people learn how to emotionally regulate and come. Come to their truth outside of their performance. So I don't know just to. I just want to say that, like, I love what you're doing there. I think there's a lot of traction there, and I'll be curious to hear in the future where that all goes for you all. I wish I had it here. If you guys were here, here in Texas, I'd be referring everybody in my clinic, they're athletes to you, so that's sweet.

Yeah. Well, it's gotten a lot of. Everyone I've told about it, the parents, they're like, oh, sign him up. We're starting with boys first. A group of boys, and then we're going to branch out to girls, too. But anyway. But yes, it's just an opportunity to watch them in their. In their pain cycle and. And to help them through it, like in vivo, you know.

Yeah.

And these guys can coach them through. While they're coaching them on the basics of the sports, they can coach them through the pain cycle. So on this. On this picture here, Lorenzo's got. He put this. This flyer together and just to back up a little bit for those. Those of us that might not, you know, understand the who the coping characters are. We do have so Brutus. So when we're in pain, we know that we go to blame, shame, control, or escape. And so we have Brutus the blaming badger. And if you're watching on video, you can see.

And Lorenzo's Got it all up in the screen.

Awesome. Yeah. So. So Brutus, the blaming badger is, you know, he's the guy that says, it's your fault you did this. You know, it's my coach's fault. It's my dad's fault. He didn't practice enough with me. You know, whatever. He's blaming. And. And you dropped the ball. And so then that's Brutus, the blaming badger. And then we also have Contessa, the controlling cow. And. And Contessa can go one of two ways. If she's. If she's more extroverted or he's more extroverted. You know, she says, I'm gonna boss you around. And guys, I've got. I've got the rules. We're playing by the exact rules according.

Yeah, yeah. She would be yelling at the refs, basically.

Yeah.

I want my turn.

Exactly. And, and. Or she can go the other way if she's maybe more introverted by nature and really go into performance. Like, I'm gonna do this perfectly. I am not gonna make a mistake, because if I do, if I'm. If I'm able to hold it all together, I'll be safer. I'll be, you know, safer. More. More lovable, usually. Safer is what she's aiming to go for. And, and then we have, let's see, Eddie the escape goat. And when he's. When he is in conflict and in pain, he's just like, bye. Lance is moving him right out of the screen. Bye. See you later. This is too much for me. I'm gonna. I am gonna. Instead. Why would I want to play sports? People might yell at me or get mad at me. I'm just gonna go to my room and put on my headphones and lay on my computer. I don't. I don't want to get involved with these people and these crazy things. And on his phone.

Yes.

And. And Lorenzo's got a picture of him hiding in the dugout, just peeking out, you know, on the field. Eddie the escape goat. And. And then we also have Sharla, the shame filled sheep. Or as Lance's daughter calls him, sheepy, Sheepy, Sheepish. And Sharla, the shame filled sheep is just when anything goes wrong. She's like, you're right. It is my fault. I should have. What am I even doing out here? I'm the worst player ever. I. I just. I can't do this. Everyone else is better than me. You're right. I suck. And so, so those are the coping characters. And then we have the Wise self who is Shalom, the dove of peace. And so Shalom helps get us into our peace cycle. Whereas yeah, so Shalom is like, you know what, you're Sharla, you're not the worst player out here. What are you talking about? Remember that home run you hit just last, last week? You're, you're amazing, you're incredible. You're loved. And, and she reminds them of what the truth is and all these coping characters, she flies in and she tries to help them see what their truth is and gives them the truth messages. And Lenny the lying lizard, not to forget him, he, he's the instigator of getting us into our pain. And so he tells us things that aren't true. So he says, you know what, you know what, Eddie? You're, you're a big loser and it's just better when you're not around. And Sharla, you're right, you do, you are terrible that you're, you're never going to get this right. So, so he tells us these, you know, painful messages and then the, the characters go and cope how they do. But when Shalom flies in and tells us the truth, then they have an alter ego, so to speak, and go into their peace cycles. And Brutus the blaming badger now becomes Brutus the boosting badger, the encourager. And he's able to lift people up and encourage them. And Contessa the controlling cow becomes Contessa the cooperating cow. And, and she works hand in hand with people, she's cooperative and she's like, you have good ideas too. Let's, let's work together. And, and then Eddie the escape goat becomes Eddie the engaging goat. And instead of hiding in the dugout, he's, he's like, I'm coming out. I'm going to be part of this game and I'm going to be a team player. And he actually is really needs Eddie. We do. And, and then Sharla the shame filled sheep becomes Sharla the self assuring sheep. And so everybody say that ten times real fast. Charlotte is self assuring sheep. And, and so Sharla is like I, I am loved, I am worthwhile, I'm wonderful, I have value. And then they, they react in the ways that are helpful and helpful to relationships and helpful to their sports teams and their school friends and their families. And, and so this is, this is really, you know, what the coping characters are about and directly descendant from RT and, and Terry's theory.

Yeah.

I have a practical question. When you do the camps, when you guys do the camps and you're out like on location or you do this, the sports stuff coming up. Do you take the characters like out into the field? Do you, do you play and hang out the kids and then come back and like process or is it curious how that all works?

Yeah, well, planning too because the characters will, they'll be there and you know, we might have them be. They might be more symbols for some of the activities that we do. Right. So we might even do an obstacle course where, you know, you have to name an emotion even like we're going through, you have specific characters the way they'd cope or let's say even an activity that happens, they have to spot and to. The plan is to have like these little pictures or illustrations that come up that are showing the behavior. Right. And the goal then is to pass it to that character. Right. So we might have some therapists on the side that'll have the, you know, coping character with them. They have to find them on the field and if we can identify the pain then. Okay, now we can go into our signature move, our truth start to move towards our pieces. Nice signature move. Yeah, yeah. Or what we choose to do or what we want to do.

Right.

So it'll be fun to engage with that also too with teams. I think it's going to be great to, you know, separate our groups into teams as well because we're going to be not only self regulating but also too, when we see and we can identify the coping from our own teammates, we'll know what to do to help bring them back up.

Right.

We know what they need. We'll be there to help them lift our teammates up. Right. A good team is only as good as their, you know, weakest link. So we got to make sure everybody is helped and, and is able to identify their own piece so that we're all operating in a nice peace cycle. So yeah, it's exciting.

So great.

And Jen, talk a little bit about camp. You guys did the first RT camp and, and we had kids come and the one thing that you touched on that's really interesting that I think is different with kids than adults is I feel like as adults we learn our pain cycle and we learn how we cope and we're kind of ashamed of our coping, characters, how we cope. We go, oh, I know that I go to escape and control and I don't, I'm not proud of that. With kids, it's not necessarily that they're proud of it but they're gravitate. They Gravitate towards their characters. Invariably, it's the craziest thing. Like, they'll come in the room and they'll just grab. Like, if they grab Eddie, the escape go. After you have explained it, you. You have a very big tip off that, oh, that's their coping. Because they. It's their coping. It's how they survive. And so they hug the characters. And so there was one little girl at the RT camp, Jen, if you want to just talk about her response. Yeah.

So, yeah, like Nancy was saying, not only do they gravitate to characters, but they also display the coping pretty much right off the bat. And so I could usually name a kid's coping within five minutes of meeting them. So this, you know, we were doing this and again, I'm trying to think of just how not to.

Yeah. No identifying information.

Yeah.

This young man.

Yeah.

That was 32 years old.

Yes.

Yeah. Just coming in, displaying already escape. They would go literally walk up and leave. So we would have to, you know, come and try to engage them again. You know, that's another thing. As a therapist, when you identify their coping, you already know where you're trying to take them. You already know, like, the goal. So anyways. But they inevitably went and would grab any. The escape go and they would not let go. This was their. Their character. And so through the rest of the camp, this was, you know, the motivating factor. You know, hey, come stay, engage, and Eddie will be right with you. And so it was just cool like that to be able to. Yeah. Like Nancy said earlier, in vivo, like, work with the kid in real life. What's happening.

Yeah.

And yeah, the puppets too, they. They can get beat up depending on. We had a water day one day, if you know the book Fireballs of Pain. And we did the shields, which was amazing intervention. They really got into it throwing the water balloons, blocking and saying and practicing their truth. But yeah, a couple of the puppets did get splashed and we had to set them out to tan. So, yeah, there is those kinds of things. And with this camp, it was nice that we had a structure and we had a roadmap to keep it going. As I know with kids ministry, you really have to have someone carrying on the show. So I would definitely not do this as a single therapist alone. Definitely get. If you have interns or whoever wants to collaborate with you, that I think ensures safety, ensures the show is going on, the program is going on, while someone else could be with them, maybe someone who needs just that extra support.

That's so great.

Yeah. We found out what worked, what didn't.

Yeah.

Puppet was a hit.

Yeah. Puppet show.

A lot of the interventions were a hit.

The dance was a hit.

The dance was a hit. We did the dance and song every day, and it was, like, so great.

Is this the. The video I watched on YouTube, that song and dance, Jennifer?

Yep.

I. I think we should start this episode out with that. Rhett just playing it like you and I, like, we'll either start it with the episode. Maybe we can introduce it real quick. Like, we'll do a quick little like we did, and then. And then. So let's pretend like everybody just watched it right now. Like, that video was so awesome. Right, Jen?

Who's.

Whose idea was that, Jen? That, Nancy? Yours.

So the. The song was my idea, and I had my son write it because he's a musician. And then Jen. Jen did the dance. That and all the choreography and that. And all four of the, you know, therapists that were running the camp did it. Five, I guess there are five of them for four and five. And they all did it. And the kids just joined in, and it was like this line dance kind of thing, and they were all about it. They loved it. And they'd go home singing the song. It's a. It's a toe tapper.

It is. And the moves are easy enough for the kids to see and just mimic, and they're like, oh, okay. They get it, you know, so it's great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Come on. Well, man, I. I wish we had more time with you guys today. We're gonna have to get you guys back. This is. I think we need, like, a RT kids podcast, actually.

Don't you think that'd be cool?

So tell us. But in the meantime, if people want to get connected with you guys, you know, you guys have the webinar coming up, or you have a webinar. Tell us about this. Yeah, because this is really, to me, we just did an RT camp at our, like, kids camp at our practice, and it was so successful. The kids all want to come back. They loved it. So. So, like, this stuff that you guys are doing is, like, it's. It's great. I mean, it's. It's. It's affecting lives and families, so this is wonderful. So tell us the things that we can lean into.

Yeah, so. So we. Jen and I did a webinar, and so we'll. We'll get that out. I mean, it's completed. We just have to figure out the platform of how to get it out to everyone, and we're we're doing that on populi, so, so, and then you can just get the basic training in Restoration therapy for kids. And I, I have a teaching background, so I was a teacher, I was actually a high school English teacher before I was a therapist. And so I got really used to doing lesson plans and having objectives, which is probably why I like RT because there's, like I said, there's the roadmap. You know, you chase the pain, you figure out the coping. Anyway, so there is no roadmap for.

This podcast if you haven't figured out yet.

So the book is, the book is really helpful as far as instead of lesson plans, there's session plans and so you can go just ideas for session plans in the book with kids and, and they're organized. If you're trying to find out what the pain is, what the kids pain cycle is, there's sessions that you can look up and try with them if you're trying, you know, if you're at the coping phase, what is their coping, there's session plans that you can use for that and as well as getting into the peace cycle and the four steps. So, so that's another way that you can learn about using Restoration therapy for kids. And I, I think it's pretty user friendly. It's in the back of the book. The, the session plans.

Yeah. And I do like the session planning too from the book. It does. And you guys will find out too, there's some flexibility to where there's some room where you can have your own creativity involved with the session planning. So yeah, it doesn't have to be like this step by step thing. It can also, you know, you can invite yourself into where you can invite a little bit of your own self into that session using this as the framework. So.

Yeah.

Oh shoot. Where's Jen?

And Jen dropped off. She's probably doing the song and dance.

Oh yeah.

She's like, I gotta go do this. She's inspired.

But.

Hey Lance, so I have two assignments.

Okay.

One is you gotta dress up in a life size character. Like picture the Chick Fil a cow.

Yeah.

And you can show up at their camp and be running around like.

Okay.

I feel like, I feel like that's right up here. That's your jam.

I know. I, I, I'm tapping in to unlock things I didn't know were there.

Yeah.

Jen's back.

Hey, there you go.

We thought you were doing the song and dance or something. And the other thing is, Nancy, we gotta have you back on after the new Year because we didn't have time to talk about the Asher Graduate School of Counseling, which we're all excited about.

We need to do that.

Yes. So I know Michael would love to join us for that, too.

Oh, yeah, we'll do that.

Yeah, that'd be. That'd be amazing. Yes. So we're. We. That continues to just be marching forward, and we're. We're super excited. We're meeting with the accreditation team on Monday, and. Yeah, so. So we're gonna get that up and going, and RT Graduate School.

I love it.

Love it.

Ah, the RT Institute. Flow. Flow.

Yes.

Love it.

Yeah.

We're inspired by all the work that you all are doing there in Arizona and the innovation and the way you're helping move RT forward. And also not just moving it forward, but just impacting all the lives of the people that you're working with on a daily basis and stuff. So it's been fun to have you on, and we definitely should. We need to go longer and probably pull out more. More props.

Yeah, no, it'd be fun to, like, even work through an intervention, too, and, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Practically, you know, everybody can see it, too. If anybody's listening to this, who wants to work with kids, you know, it's. It can be a. It can be encouraging, too, to see an intervention happen live.

So that's what we should do. Like we did with Tanner. Let's do a Tanner with. With these guys would be so great.

Like, we'll do, like, a bunch of interventions and break them into small episodes. That way people can access them.

Okay, guys, season two, it's coming.

Yeah. After the new year, we'll circle back with the Asher Graduate School of Counseling with Nancy and Michael, and then we'll. We'll do an intervention only for kids. RT club.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sweet.

That'd be great.

All right, well, bless you guys. Thanks for being on.

All right, thank you, guys for having us.

Take care. God bless. Thank you.

Cheers.

Bye.