Season 2 | Episode 55 | The 7 Vital Components of an Intensive

Foreign.

Lance, bruh.

What is up, Rhett?

For those listening, we're holding our RT Dialogue coffee mugs up.

RT Dialogue. It's the place of joy. Drink it with your vu, Warrior.

Do you think if we sold RT Dialogue Swag, like, coffee mugs or hats, people would buy just to support rt?

I don't know. That's a good question. I mean, I do like our logo.

Yeah. And the mug's cool.

Yeah. I. I dig it. I. I think. Yeah. You know, of all the things I could buy today, you know, probably would be, you know, I'd say, like, in the high 40s of something, I would buy, like, on the. On my list of things to get.

All right.

I mean. I mean, it's there.

We could think of selling something, and the money goes to, like, scholarships or something, or we could use it to throw a little cash our way to our boy Ro, who helps do the sound in the background.

Dude, Ro needs some love.

Yeah. Like, so let's. We'll think it over, people. If. If you. If you would like RT Dialogue Swag, let us know.

Yeah, we'll. We'll make it happen. The trucker hats come in the. You can get your RT mugs and dialogue mugs. I don't know what's next. Stickers. Yeah.

Hey, we got some announcements. And this is. Do we say this is episode 55, so.

55. Still alive.

We're rolling around. Rolling along here in January. This is.

I. I'm liking it. I mean, like, we're jumping in.

We're.

We're not messing around this January. We're doing the Polar plunge, which.

Right.

And people who are like, you're colored out today.

Yeah. People can't see. Let's see my screen here. Behind me, there's ice. Ice in my backyard. Oh, there's. Our plants are inside. Our succulents are inside, you know, because those don't do very well here. And when the temperature's been. It's been around, like, some days, 10, 12 degrees with, like. Feels like 5 degrees. So I'm. I'm at home working. I got my beanie on, drinking coffee.

That's the jam. I will. Meanwhile, in California, I went surfing yesterday, and I was hot as can be. I was, like, burning up. Yeah.

I don't. All my California friends are sending me pictures of them out, like, you know, outdoors, hanging out, and we're, like, bundled up. Streets are layered with ice. Can't go anywhere. Which, as a therapist, you know, I'm glad we can do video, too, but a lot of people don't want to do video. And so it really creates havoc on your practice when you hit these ice storms. Got to move a lot of things around, so, bro, that's what I'm doing this week, bro.

Speaking of getting outside, I sent you a picture on Sunday.

Yeah. You wanna.

You challenged me and I challenged you.

In the last episode.

You did.

Yeah, that. I think one of the things I hear you talk about is your love of climbing, and you gave that up for a lot of reasons.

Yep.

And so I encourage you to get back to it. And you sent me a picture of you in the climbing gym.

Yes. Yeah, I made it. I went out and I was. I was so happy, like, to be back on the rock. It was weird, you know, like, because it's familiar, but it was. Yeah, Yeah, I. I was. I was happy to be there. It was the challenge. I got emotional as I asked my buddy to go climbing with me, like my old climbing partner. And, you know, it was. It was the birthday of my friend who died that. That. My old cl. One of my climbing partners.

Yeah.

And I was like, you know what? I'm not going to live my life like this anymore. I'm not going to live a life of, like, allowing that, like, killing surfing or killing. Killing climbing for me. So I did it. It was fun. I had a great time. My arms were exhausted. My. My forearms couldn't grip anymore.

So. And I. Yeah. This is in reference. If people haven't listened yet, to our last episode 54. We talked about kind of the beginning of the year with clients and goals, and one of the things that we talked about was what you and I were gonna do. And you were in the gym climbing, and I spent maybe four or five hours this weekend playing guitar, Practicing guitar. So I learned Amazing Grace on the guitar. Kind of learned it. I sent a video to my daughter of me playing. She was proud of me. So you and I are. We are in full swing of some of our big goals for this year.

So I think for the outro, we're going to have the video of you play An Amazing Grace.

I think for.

I think Ro maybe could play that for us.

Yeah, it's a very. I continue the video I sent my daughter, which is a very rough, very rough version. I asked her if she could pick out what song it was, and she said she could. I said, did your mom. I said, did Heather tell you what song was? She's like, no, I figured it out.

I said, okay, we need some Amazing Grace right now. Good golly.

Just so people, they're hearing a lot of you and I in the beginning of the year. Don't worry, people. We have lots of amazing guests lined up this year and we're recording you and I today because one of our guests had to cancel last minute. So we have some good stuff in store. And I, before I move, like, we're going to talk about intensives. We're talking about anxiety also as well. But speaking of anxiety, anytime I watch the documentary Free Solo with Alex Honnold and I've seen it multiple times. I've seen it on large screen imacs. And I remember sitting in the theater and I knew that he lived right. But my hands were sweating and like high anxiety. And so this weekend when he was climbing Taipei 101, I just couldn't watch it. I refused to watch it. But then I found myself going over and turning it on. And then I watched a little bit and then I would turn it and then I turned it on again and then I turned it off. And then he. I watched him summit and he's standing on the top there, this little tiny platform and the wind is blowing hard and I'm thinking, sit down, sit down. Like I Did you watch it?

Speaking of climbing, I. I've watched his other one. I. I did watch Free Solo. Free Solo, which by the way, Don Wall to me is much better personally.

Great film.

But yeah, I think the I. The Taipei I just watched, it's. To me it was kind of cheesy. Yeah. It didn't have that magical like, dude, you're climbing something that is famous for rock climbers. This is like, you know, this is a nice money grab for Alex and I'm really happy for him because he's, he is done so much for the rock climbing field.

Yeah. And yeah, it's a totally different feel. I think the climbing movies, yeah. Dawn Wall, Maru, Free Solo, those are all fascinating. This was like Rich Roll had him on afterwards. And Rich Roll in another like video on Instagram described it kind of as like kind of being in the Roman Coliseum. It's kind of a spectacle.

Yeah, you know, totally.

And Alex didn't say how much he got paid, but what I was reading it was actually not very much. Like he. He even said it was, it was embarrassingly small. He said, I would have climbed it for free. I. He's like, I just, I. I just needed permission to climb it. Yeah, you're gonna give me a little bit of money. Oh man. Anyways, I just want. I was curious since you're a Climber. If you had watched it.

Yeah, I, I, I definitely watched it. One of the, that the book on Dawn Wall, though, called the Push by Tommy Caldwell. Yeah, absolutely. Great book. I would definitely recommend it if you it. I feel like he poetically, like brings about a lot of the stuff around, like trauma, how cli. Like having a outlet can make a big difference. And just the, the boy goes through so much difficulties and he overcomes and he overcomes. And I think those stories of overcoming for me, like, as a therapist, like, I just grab onto those stories. Yeah, I think it's power.

I have not read the book. I will read the book based on that recommendation alone.

Yeah, it's good. It's good.

Let's run through a couple announcements and let's hit, let's hit our topic and I think it's an important topic and I hope people listening to it will find it encouraging and find some opportunities to engage it. But announcements. First announcement. Texas event. Our Texas Restoration Therapy gathering. It's up and running. Website registration is live. I'll put the link in the show notes. It's happening April. Ooh, I should have the date in front of me. April 25th and April 26th. No, sorry. April 24th. April 25th in Austin. It's being hosted by Hill Country Bible Church.

Those guys are awesome.

Yeah. Limited registration, so register now. Cost is 50 bucks. Cost you a few extra bucks with the eventbrite fees, but 50 bucks will get you lunch and coffee and snacks and seven ceus And Eric. Yeah, Eric Solwin's teaching on forgiveness, man.

Oh, dude, can y' all live stream that thing?

I don't know, man. We'll see. There may be a whole other barrier. Yeah, it would be.

That's. That's exciting. I like 7 cus food, hanging out with cool people.

Dinner on Friday night. Not. Not include. But we're going to hang out at a really good Mexican restaurant there in Austin. And it's an opportunity. We're really trying to catalyze the Texas community here. And so it's going to be a cool, just fun weekend of socializing, learning, hopefully just spending time together. So sign up, people. Links are at our sub stack. I'll put them in the show notes as well. So that's that announcement. Also, it's full, but Terry's level two training is full.

Level one.

Level one, sorry, is training for next month is full. If you want information and all that stuff, you can go to our sub stack as well. And under upcoming events, you'll see all the events listed so, yeah, I know.

The ones in Texas aren't full yet, though, so, like, the ones. The other ones that are coming up. So if you wanted to do Terry's and you couldn't get in, hey, don't worry. We got Michael Cox. Come on. Our boy. And Eric Salwin. Like, come on. Like, it's gonna be good. So I would definitely recommend checking out the.

Yeah, Michael's. Sorry. Uh, Michael Cox. One is. Was just this last weekend. Right.

Oh, you're right. Because that was the same weekend as.

Yep, yep. So that happened. But in March, Eric Solwin will have a training as well, so we'll keep getting that. That stuff out there. Um, we also want to just say we had our meeting, kind of initial meeting about the summit.

Yep.

Um, so the summit, 20, 27, March 5 and 6 in Malibu at Pepperdine. Planning is already underway for that. You want to say anything about it?

Yeah, I mean, I think first off, it's. It's going to be amazing. There's. We're putting together, you know, like, Pepperdine is gonna, like, they're like, basically, while they're on winter break, they're letting us use their campus. Like, we can use their auditorium. Like, there's so much, like, they're. They're giving us so much up in Malibu. Guys, I will definitely be bringing a few surfboards for those of you that want to get wet, you know, But I, I'm. I think this. This summit will probably be a very memorable one. I'm.

We're.

I think it's limited. Like, we only have, like, 300 spots.

Is that right? Something around there? Yeah, it's going to be. We think it's going to be a really significant gathering because there's a lot of energy behind it, a lot of different things coming together, and it'll be limited. And so we will have registration up soon. So you'll be hearing about it.

Yeah. Stay tuned.

And when you say winter break for Pepperdine, Winter break in Malibu means amazing weather. Yeah. Especially for everybody who's not in California.

Yes. It will be you. You will thaw out very well. You can come early, do Disneyland as well. California has lots of beauty to offer to the whole world. So I would definitely start making your plans for. For that ahead of time.

Yeah, we'll have information for hotels and all that and a site up soon. And if you're interested in volunteering, Dede Meyer is organizing, heading up all of this, but she's got a lot in her plate, so you can. You can just email Lance. Lance, all Gmail or me. Rhett. Rhett Smith dot com.

Yeah.

And we'll, we'll, we'll help get you in the right areas because there are going to be some different types of committees forming to help pull off this event.

Yeah.

Other thing you want to say something about the Turning from Anxiety. You're going to put something on the website.

Yeah. Updates. So we're excited. We did get some funding for Turning from Anxiety retreats coming up. So stay tuned. We'll be having, we'll be announcing some of those that are coming up and we, we will have some scholarships available for people. We're sure. We're still figuring that part out. You and I are going to do a pastor's retreat focused in on the Turning from Anxiety material there. And then we have a few others that have already reached out, really excited to get them going. But check out the website because we actually have a cool promo now with voiced, voiced over with our favorite Megan Ekin. And I have a cameo in it. I just want to say, you know. Yeah.

So go check out the video on the Turning from Anxiety website.

Yeah. After you watch Rhett seeing Amazing Grace.

Yeah. Last thing for people interested, we, Lance did the heavy lifting for this, but we created a 501C3 in Texas called the RT Fund, which just is a legal, you know, ethical way for us to be able to receive money and use money in the, in the restoration therapy community. And one of the reasons we're mentioning that is there are some really generous donors who give money to help support the work in the restoration therapy community. And that has been fostered over the years by Terry and Sharon Hargrave. So obviously very thankful for that. But we also want to eventually here set up some opportunities where if you benefit from the RIT community places for you to give money to just continue to support the work of scholarships and other stuff. So we're just trying to lay the groundwork for that. And so I just wanted to kind of mention that.

Yeah, yeah. Certainly want to receive. Like, if you, if you're like, man, we love this stuff. We really want to give back to the community. Definitely would love to receive. And we also want to give. So if you have some pet projects that you've been like, really longing to see happen, start putting together some proposals and let us know what you're thinking about. Like, we want, in order for RT to thrive, we continually have to push the envelope of what's new and what's next. So, yeah, we would be excited to see that. And I don't we don't have a structure for that yet other than just reach out and let's talk. Yeah, let's dialogue.

Well, normally when we have guests, we don't spend this long doing announcements, but it's important for us. We feel like it's a good opportunity for us to kind of mention what's going on in the community today, though. Lance, you want to share a little bit about what we want to talk about?

Yeah, man. So when I got into therapy, I got the blessing of all blessings to sit with multiple masters. I got to sit underneath Terry Hargrave, and I also got to sit underneath Sharon May, who is just this amazing intensive therapist. She. She did a lot of the groundwork for intensive therapy, and then I also got to do the work with the Hideaway. So intensive therapy is something I'm really passionate about. I find that there's stuff that you can do at an intensive that you cannot do in a one hour session.

Yeah. And I feel like you. I remember sitting here in Texas in like 2009, and my buddy Todd Sandow, he's like, rhett, there's this amazing intensive going on up in, up in Amarillo and Palo Duro Canyon with Terry Hargrave. And he's like, you got to check it out. And I'm like, well, I don't. How am I going to check it out? And he's like, well, I'll invite you. Because Todd was one of the. He's one of the therapists there at the time. And so in 2010, after meeting with the Hargraves and the Traftons who run it, I went up and sat third chair, they used to call it, and observed. And then I spent four years on staff there doing marriage intensives. And it's hard to explain the transformation that takes place in a marriage intensive or in any intensive. And so the challenge, I think, for me has been I'm no longer on staff there, and how do I get involved in intensives again? How do we do this intensive model in our offices, which I've done over the years, or how do we, within the RT community, come alongside another therapist and do an intensive, like an anxiety intensive, for example? And so it's a confusing process at times. And so I think you and I want to talk about it and lay out some of the specific groundwork. The specific groundwork?

Yeah. And, yeah.

And to lean into your dissertation too, because you wrote about this.

Yeah, I think that's the flow for me. And I. Let's, let's, let's start off by just naming the idea that when it comes to intensive work, like we are no longer buying by the clock anymore. I don't know about you, but inside of my heart and my Soul I have 50 minutes. Like in my. I can just feel that moment like as you're going through a session and when you think about doing therapy there's. I could go, I have a whole list of things that I mentioned my dissertation. But I think one of the things I'm talking about that, that I really think I want people to think about is the, the little lack of time. You actually get to do therapy when you're in therapy because people come in the room and what do we first do when they, you know, if, if they show up on time, what's the first thing that happens?

Well, we, they do what you and I just did for the last 17 minutes. We chit chatted about things going on and catching up a little bit.

Yeah. So that's out of a 50 minute session. Yeah, we have chit chatted, you know, or you know, established connection. Oh, and then this happened and this happened and this happened. So you have that, that amount of space that is used right in the beginning and then what happens at the end of a session?

You wrap up a little bit, talk about, you might get up and schedule them as well, you know, and so that, that end of it is kind of a, a closure time and next steps.

Yeah. So you think about that. Like in a 50 minute session I was, I was trying to do some math with it and I found that, you know, we might have, you know, 25 minutes. If we're like 25 minutes of like getting into like good therapy time. Um, and like when you look at that amount of time and, and you consider doing an intensive where at an intensive it is one or two or even a half day, like you are getting so much more time to do good work and you're not having to look at a clock anymore. You're actually able just to engage with the person. So it's really nice because sometimes you get rushed in doing your work. You know, if you're trying to do re parenting and you're like O man, okay, how am I going to set up this reparenting? You know, I got like 5, 10 minutes left to do a reparenting right now. Oh, you know, but you know, when you're, when you're in a intensive, you can really set the ground up and, and do really well with a lot of the interventions that we use with restoration therapy. So that's. That's why I'm inspired to talk about this.

Yeah. And as a therapist, you know, when you have new clients or different clients coming into the day, you might honestly take you a little bit of flow to figure out yourself as a therapist. Like. Like, look for the. Like, where is this going? Where's the opportunity to lean in? What intervention am I going to move towards? You know, you're kind of, like, funneling through that when you're with the same person or the same couples or whoever you're working with. Right. Over a period of two, three days, you're kind of already in. And. And therapy is happening even when you're not doing therapy, essentially at an intensive.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. So one of the things that really inspired me when I was doing this work of, like, it was trying to find what are we doing at it at an intensive. Like, what is. What is the work of an intensive. And I was really moved by. There is this archetype in literature called Green World by Northrop Fry. He kind of noticed this in a lot of literature, that there you have your, like, main character, right? And your main character is going through, you know, a difficult. He's got all these things going on, or she's got all these things that are going on in her life. And. And then all of a sudden, there's this moment in time where the main character is taken out of their main world, their hustle and bustle of life, and they're transported oftentimes to a world that involves nature. And in that place of the green world, they're challenged to deal with the pains that are going on. They're given that time, they're given. They're cared for in that green environment. They are, you know. You know, like, they hit that moment. You know, I always think about. I'm a kind of a nerd, so I apologize. I'm sure we'll have lots of moments of this in the RT in the wild. But I was thinking about, like, Star wars, when Luke is up and he is in the cave, right. With Yoda at Dagobah. And that that would be like, a green world experience where he is fighting. He's having to deal with his big foe, which is Darth Vader. But, like, that moment, you're. That moment in where, like, he takes down Darth Vader and. But underneath of the mask, do you remember what's revealed?

That it's his father?

No. So he. So this is great. So he's, like, fighting Darth Vader himself.

He sees himself yeah, yeah.

The battle is yourself.

Yeah, yeah.

So good. And it's. He could have done that if he's just sitting there on the tr. Like fighting. So like.

Yeah.

These moments of creating these, these experiences really like reading that and then thinking about what we do at, at intensives. I was like, okay, here are seven recipe. Here's like seven items that I think need to happen at an intensive. Okay.

Some of this small. The intensive, you're saying invites you in. Yeah, it's like different world and experience to really like face yourself.

Come on.

That in a. Not always, but sometimes in a 50 minute session you, we, you know, struggle to do so intensive. I know at the hideaway we used to talk about, we. There's like four kind of pillars that we thought. Talked about mean intensive. But you have seven that you've researched and studied and you said these seven, these seven things is what makes a good intensive.

Right?

Okay, so let's talk, let's talk about these. What are, what are the seven things? So people thinking about doing an intensive, you know, these are the seven things that Lance and his research and us in the RT community have talked about as being important components.

Okay, so again, name the seven and then we can kind of land, we'll land on some of them, some of them will go through faster. But here are the seven. Number one, we are focusing on one big goal. Okay, let's not make it complicated where we're trying to figure out everything. Let's focus in on one big goal. What are we going for? What's the big mamba jamba that you need to take care of?

Okay, so let's. For example, in an anxiety intensive, anxiety is the piece. But you're saying, come in. There might be one big goal within that anxiety intensive they're trying to work through.

Right? Yeah, I remember, I remember Steve, I don't know if it was Steve Trafton or Terry, but I remember there's this moment when we were talking about the hideaway and, and people would leave the hideaway and they would be like, well I really wanted to work on this and, and. But they wasn't stated. So like the hideaway was like, all right, we are going to name the big goal and we're going to work on that big goal. We're going to make sure that's taken care of while you're here. So naming that big goal.

Yeah, we would sometimes, you know, it's, it's kind of almost a solution focused move as well. When we would ask people like, hey, when you leave Here, how would you know you would have accomplished that goal? What would that look like? What would have to have taken place and to have people actually state it? So focusing on one big goal is important for an intensive.

Yeah. Number two, dude, we're talking about environments. Having a secluded, safe environment is so important. A place where you're out of the hustle and bustle of life. And if you're doing it in your office, I know it's awkward and weird, but creating things to make your environment feel. Feel different. So, I mean, obviously, you know, you and I are trying to go to, like, Colorado or something for this pastor's one where we're. We're. We're taking people out of their. Their current world and taking them to somewhere else where all the distractions are taken away.

Yeah.

No cell phones, if you can help it. You know, all these things that. That. That distract you in your normal day life are making it so you can't work. So we want to have an environment that just begs you. It says, dude, get off of your phone, get off of your work, get off of all this stuff, and let's get back to what you really need in life.

Yeah. One thing I like about a secluded environment, like, actually going somewhere is you kind of cross that what they would describe as a liminal space, that threshold, that transition. So, like, you know, you're driving a few hours to a place at the hideaway, you know. You know, when you get off the. When you're out of Amarillo and you all of a sudden you're on these dirt roads.

Where are we going right now?

And then you hit their property and you see this big canyon. It's like that. That is a threshold where we are now somewhere different. And it just shifts things not only physically, but emotionally, mentally, spiritually for you.

Yeah. Yeah. One of the big findings in anxiety generation was this idea of awe. Like, awe inspiring, like, could be, like. To help reduce anxiety. And I think to me, like, the more that we give people experiences to see the beauty of what of our created landscape that's all around us. It is so powerful. So, yeah, I would definitely recommend having a safe, secluded setting.

I think I heard a book the other day. It's called the new science of everyday wonder and how it can transform your life by Docker Keltner. Have you read that book?

No.

Yeah, someone mentioned it on a podcast. They were talking about anxiety. That's why when you said awe. Yeah. The title of the book is called Awe, and it explores, like, personal experience of awe and how that can prove like your well being and all that other stuff.

So anyways, it's amazing. I recommend doing it even in your own personal life. Going back to those, those moments, like just slow down your life for just a minute and just remember like that great moment that you had. Whether it's like, I think about like being like the, the moment just that came to me of awe was us going to the field of dreams. Right. I was with a, with a, with a crew. Terry, Terry was there and just sitting at the field of dreams looking at. And, and Terry had us call into the corn the, the people that we love that, that we wish were, that were not there with us. And, and we're. Terry says if everybody comes out, you know, like take your moment like, but like calling in the corn, like I, I can call that moment and I can hear my dad's laughter with me as we were calling in the corn to his dad. And I was just, it just touched my heart, you know. And so yeah, creating all is amazing.

Number one, focusing on one big goal as intensive. Number two, the secluded environment of intensive.

Yeah.

Number three, hospitality.

Man. Oh, to be served and not to serve is such a beautiful thing. This is something that to me what the hideaway does and what they do at Windshape is absolutely extraordinary and cannot.

Be.

Like put to the side creating experiences whether it's the person's favorite food, favorite drink, whatever it may be, where they feel like they are a guest and they are not a patient in the house. That, that is absolutely amazing to have hospitality of care. Food is obviously a big part, but you know, the rooms and how they're, how they're done really makes a huge difference.

Yeah. Even you know, at the Hideaway, it's like as soon as you pull up, they're out there waiting for you and carrying your bags in, walk you to your space and you're in and they serve you. And what's interesting and intensive, you know, the hospitality piece even becomes a opportunity for interventions because you notice how some people are up, busy and trying to do things and it's distracting. And so it's interesting how, I don't know, it's interesting how that becomes such a central piece of transformation for people to feel safe and to also maybe do some work around things that you notice. Yeah. I used to send pictures, which I learned quickly was not a good idea to Heather back at. I had Heather be at home with the kids and I'd be up to the hideaway and I'd send pictures of our meals and she's like, yeah, I'm here making Mac and cheese with the kids running around and you're sending me pictures of steak. So. Yeah.

Or like after a break you come back and there's a magical plate of cookies or macaroons. You're like, what just happened here? Wow. Food's just magically appearing.

Yeah. Hospitality is huge. Yeah. And if you've ever been to the Hideaway or you've been to Wind Shape or, you know, Windshape is the non profit piece of chick fil A. Like it's just the, the hospitality piece.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We're talking about safety, right?

Yeah.

To, in order for people to do like that heavy, heavy work, feeling safe and loved and cared for. I mean, that's our work, you know.

Safety and trying to remove things from that that they should be focusing on. They don't need to become, they don't need to come there and be thinking about cooking a meal or doing chores. We want them, we want all obstacles out of the way so they can face themselves, essentially.

Yeah. Or where they're going to eat. All these things. They, they get in the way for us to do the good work we need to do.

Yeah. All right. Focusing on one big goal. Secluded environment. Hospitality number four.

All right, man. We, we're not having a yoga retreat, bro. It's not a yoga retreat. You know, we're not sitting there just breathing in the cool air. No, we are expert. We. You need expert therapists in the room that are going to help you to.

Yeah.

A guide in, in the green world experience, there is a, there is a Yoda, you know, there's a Gandalf, you know, there is Elrond, you know, there, there are these characters that, that are coming along and caring for the people and calling them not just with hospitality, but they're, they're encouraging them to deal with their foes that are or really need to get taken care of. So you need your, your, your sage that can come in there. Yeah.

Every, every tradition, every great tradition, both fictional, non fictional, has a guide who takes the people through an experience.

Yeah.

And so expert therapists and typically in intensive. We're talking about two.

Yeah. Oh, man. Co therapy to me I think is, is such a gift to be able to be working tandem. I know, I know you don't make as much money, but what, what you do get is you, you grow so much more as a, as a therapist and, and like it kind of gives you space to rest in between some of the things.

Like when I was Doing intensives at the Hideaway and you be working with the same person, after a while you get kind of a good flow. And so I knew when I could kind of sit back and let that, let Todd lean in or Kathy lean in. And then when we're sitting back, we're observing and like paying attention to things that maybe the therapist isn't why they're kind of in doing the work. And so that tag team approach.

Yeah.

Is, is phenomenal. And, and sometimes, you know, obviously therapists get stuck and so it's like, here, come in, it's your turn. They might have an intervention or something that you don't see.

Yeah. And if you're stuck by yourself at an intensive, ain't nobody else coming in. I remember doing, having Terry watch us do therapy when like doing the live team and like you reach these moments where both the therapists would be looking at you like I have no clue what.

Yeah.

And then all of a sudden Terry walks in the room.

Yeah.

Well, this is why you really want to get therapists who like having somebody that's familiar with, with the rest the piece. You know, all the little mantras that we have with intensives, you know, where you're saying, you know, I'm glad it's not a, you know, half day intensive. I'm not, I'm glad it's not a one day intensive. Like trusting the process. There's lots of nuances at intensives that, that you're, that you're looking for so that having somebody that's been trained in doing intensives really matters. Yeah.

Expert therapists. Okay. Focusing One big goal. Secluded environment. Hospitality. Expert therapists number five.

All right, man, I'm telling you, Terry's made a big deal about this and I'm, I'm going to make a big deal about this. Insight base only gets you so far. We have to have tools that are helping us to go far, like to, to do things like we have to be given something to, to, to, to be with, you know, you know, whether it's, you know, Luke, it's the force, you know, you have when you look at, you know, in the scriptures, you know, Moses is handed the staff, he gets, he gets this tool and he gets to practice with the tool. You know, Jesus, when he is tempted and the, by the, by the devil, he, he uses the tool of scripture to be able to take on the devil and his tricks. Um, so having tools is really important. If we just do insight, all we are going to leave with is like, whoa, I've been Through a lot. Insight does not help you when you come back out of the green world. We need to actually be handed something to be able to do and use so that. That tools are important. Obviously, with restoration therapy, our. Our big tool that we're always using is our mindfulness tool of the four steps. And we're. We create that by helping people define their pain cycle, their peace cycle, and then working towards how to use that all together with the four steps so they can be self regulated. So having, having good tools, that really makes a difference.

Yeah, I, I kind of remember that the word equipped in Latin is this idea of like in instruction and being like, like supplied. You're giving, you're giving, you're giving something. And so I, I sometimes picture like people metaphorically walking out with a backpack of tools or like. Yeah, you know, like a tool belt of things that they can have at their disposal. Let's name a few. I remember. So, like at the anxiety intensives, when Tanner and I did the first two pilots. And I know stuff has expanded over times, but one thing I like that Tanner would talk about is he. He would talk about having like four strokes. Like a swimmer's got four strokes that they're. They become really good at. He wanted. He wants clients to have like, these are the four things I'm gonna use. So we have the. We have the four steps, right?

Dude, that's our. That's. That is like our go to tool. That is the one that like, you want that on the ready all the time.

Yep. What else would you say, especially thinking about your work with the dissertation on the anxiety intensives?

Yeah, I mean, so with, with the anxiety intensive, what we're trying to do is we're trying to break people out of their. Their common existence. So we're trying to give them things that are. That they can try out. So some of the tools that we create would be like, for instance, we encourage just having mindfulness moments, like learning to slow down. We have the breathing, the physiological sigh.

Yeah. I think a breathing practice, I would always consider that as one of the primary tools just to. To disrupt. For example, we're talking about anxiety disrupt the rumination to shift your physiology in that moment.

Come on.

So breathing the four steps, journaling, I.

Think, is one of the big things that we do. We try and create opportunities like for them to use it, which. That's our next thing we're talking about. But some of the other tools would be community, to know you're not alone, you know, leaning into those things, you know, Using art. Yeah.

I kind of came to the bucket of, like, creativity.

Yeah.

So, like, creativity is almost a tool, but how it. How it's practiced can look different. Whether we were doing watercolors or we would make bracelets, which is a. Which is a creative tool, but also was a tool to use. The four steps. Right. Yeah. Shout out to Heather. Heather what? I never say her last name. Right. Heather Cotson Cotton. Heather. I'm sorry.

Heather, we love you. Yeah. And we're thankful for your work.

Yes. Texas. In Texas.

She's got that great draw. We got to get her on this.

Yeah. We got to talk about her bracelets and other stuff that she does, which is really, really creative. Anything else you can think of?

So, yeah, the four steps.

Breathing, community, creativity. I would consider physical movement, some kind of physical practice as.

Yeah.

A good tool for you. Climbing might be one of those tools that.

Right.

Helps you embody that this year.

Yeah.

Running for me is a big one. I think. Just walking.

Yeah. Exercise. I. I love your. You have those four items that you have in your little. That. That one page that you have, like where you're. When you're looking at, like, when you leave. Here are the practices I'm going to do when I leave. You know that that's where you're naming the tools and what you want to practice. So just, like, literally putting them down. Eating healthy. I mean, like, these are. I don't know if I would call them a tool, but I think they're things that we know that we can do that bring out a better me. Yeah.

They're almost like big tool, like bucket. These are the four core categories that are tools, and how a person accesses them in practice may look different. So just to back up, number one, focusing on one big goal. Two is secluded environment. Three is hospitality. Four is expert therapist. Five is providing the tools. And then number six. Lance.

Wait for it. Sorry, I had to introduct. My. My dog was knocking at the door. That little. Number six is practice. Oh, my gosh.

Opportunities for practice.

Come on, we got to practice. Practice is so important. If I hand you a tool and I don't teach you how to use it properly, I have failed you once again. Going back to our people of, you know, whether we're in Narnia, you know, and we're receiving these amazing tools, you see them learning how to use said tool. If we're in Rivendale and we're handed these swords or these. The. The force of Lothlorian, like, we. We're taught how to use it. Right. And, and so leaning in on practice is, is so huge where you're feeling confident in using the tool.

Yeah. My son and his buddy were over a couple months ago and they won. They were making this like bench and they pulled this big table saw I had up in the attic down. And so I was thinking do I want to let two 15 year olds with a table saw who never had, you know. And I'm not an expert woodwork either. This was given to me my father in law. So my son called up my father in law on FaceTime and my father in law showed them how to use the table saw. Right. How to. There's this massive tool which can cause great damage, bodily harm. They don't know how to use it. So they went to that.

Tommy Caldwell lost a finger because of a table saw.

Climbing. That's the climbing guy we referenced back in the dawn wall. Yeah. So my father in law walked them through and told them what safety measures to use and things to wear and so they could safely navigate that tool. Otherwise, tools without knowledge just don't really help.

No. Yeah. Going back, I remember there's a long time ago, like one of my first times going to the Hideaway and they were doing like they found out that they had like, I think they counted one time like 40 or 50 different handouts that they were, that they were just handing out lots of different things like here's tool, here's tool, here's tool.

Here'S therapist would bring different things to an intensive.

And, and I, I remember talking to Terry about. And Terry was like, no, this is what we do with restoration therapy. Right. And he, he laid it out and he said let's just teach this. Do not. And I think this happens to us a lot of times in therapy is like we give up on, on tools too quickly before we've mastered the tool. Yeah.

One thing that, you know, challenging in my individual practice versus thinking about work at the intensive. The great thing about the intensive is we would set aside entire blocks of time, sometimes hour and a half, two hours, where this was a marriage intensive. So yeah, couples would walk around the property just practicing their four steps. That's all they'd be doing. And then the therapist would walk around and work with them and then, and then let them do it on their own and then trans go to another couple and work with them and then come back. And so there was a lot of practice and real time out in this secluded environment. And you know, one of the challenges of therapist is just trying to Figure out sometimes how that looks in your office, you know, and how you get people to practice.

I mean, isn't that like, one of the biggest things that therapists struggle with is like, I'm all I'm getting. I'm teaching them in the room.

Yeah.

And like, they're. And then they go home and they don't do their four steps. Well, how can we get them to practice more? That's the beauty of an intensive, you know, And I think you came up with some really cool interventions that, that allow practice. You know, the one of my favorites that I use at least, you know, once a week is the no card intervention. I, you know, I've gone through my fair share of note cards, but, like, having. Having them, like, put down the things that are struggling with them that they're struggling with, and then having them put them down in front of them and then pick one, focus on the one. Right. And say, your four steps. Practice now.

Yeah, I was, I was looking it up. I'll post it in the show notes. But I wrote an article. I wrote a post on our sub stack back in May of this last year, 2025, about the note card intervention.

Yeah.

But I was thinking, I was thinking, even just using the language of telling a client in your office, for example, of like, hey, we're going to spend some time practicing what we're talking about, you know, so, like, everyone's just aware of it. This is just something we do. Because I think sometimes I can't speak for all therapists. I know for myself, sometimes it can feel weird or odd that you're having those insight and then trying to figure out how to put that into practice, or there's a little bit of anxiety about moving into practice sometimes. And so I think just being clear and I try to do this in the intake, is we're going to work on insight here, but we're going to do a lot of times just practicing things.

Yeah.

You know, I think people love that. I have a lot of people who come from other therapists, and they're like, you know, they just sit and listen. They don't really do anything else, you.

Know, so, yeah, like, all I do is I just tell my therapist everything that happened to me this week, and then they reflect things back to me. And that's the end of our session. Yeah. How sad is that? How sad is that? Like, you're, you are literally just a sounding board. That is why that, like, to me, this. Sorry, it gets me amped up. But I like, this is. This is why people don't respect therapy because we are not using. We're not encouraging our people to practice and use tools. And it's so important. Don't become a sounding board. Don't. Please encourage your clients to practice. I know. It's exhausting. I know. Like, they're going to give you 50 excuses why they do not want to do it and they just want to understand, blah, blah, blah, blah. But they have to practice.

It's funny when you see, like, therapists on TV shows or movies sometimes my family look at me. It's like that what happens in therapy. I'm like, ah, no, that's. That's why therapists get a bad rap. I know. Because what you're seeing. So, all right. You and I won't. We, we won't. We won't spend too much time there because we have thoughts on that. In all honesty. That's, you know, that's always a growth area for me. Yeah. Making sure I'm practicing more.

All of us.

All of us. Me too. So number one, focusing on one big goal. Two is secluded environment. Three is hospitality. Four is expert therapists. Five is providing tools. Six is opportunities for practice. Number seven.

Okay, number seven. This one. Okay. I think probably one of the most powerful things and one of the hardest things to do is to get a group. When you have a whole group of people that are together working on a task, trying to get there, to see, like, when, when, when that person's struggling with the same thing you're struggling with. Right. Or the same thing your wife is struggling with or your kid and you see them struggling and you' oh, my gosh, that's my kid. That's myself, that's me. And, and, and they get that breakthrough and you're like, oh, my gosh, maybe me too. It is so powerful in the group to be together. And we're all, like, attached to this one goal that we're working towards. And I had in my initial dissertation, I had, like, all this, like, flowery language around, you know, the green world. And like, I had this, my. One of my favorite pieces. I had to edit my disser because nobody wants to read about the Lord of the Rings. Apparently. Nobody wants to read about the disciples and how they came together and they were idiots and. But, like, being with Jesus, like, made this major difference in their lives.

But.

But I love. This is like one of my favorite parts. Like, I saw it as, like a chapter in the book, but there's like, this moment when they're deciding, you know, in the Lord of the Rings, who will take the Ring to l. To Mordor. And. And then all. I'm like, well, I think. I think, you know, and then, then you have, you know, my doppelganger come forward and, um, Frodo. And Frodo comes and he grabs the ring and he's in his hand. He says, I will take the Ring to Mordor. And, like, you know, you see them look, and like these. Looks of like, oh, you know, oh. And then there's this, like, powerful line where Frodo says, but I don't know the way. And then the group comes forward and they say, frodo, you have my sword. Frodo, you have my axe. You have my bow. You know, and this. And I see that happening at intensives when you have these groups that have come together. We each come in with different gifts and talents and abilities. And as we use our talents and our abilities together, the. The. The whole group allows us to deal with this one thing, this one ring that has, like, owned our lives and our civilization. And we can, like, have the power, you know, to be able to. To throw that thing into Mordor. Now, you know, there's the breaking of the Fellowship. And, you know, my, My analogy breaks down eventually, but the, the. There's this beauty of being able to do stuff as a group. And I think this is some of the cool stuff we experience at, like, it's at an intensive that is just like. You just can't recreate that. Like, the power of how a group can come together. Yeah, yeah.

I would tell people, like, when I have clients, I'll refer to like, a marriage intensive. And one of the scariest things for them is to think other people will be there. They don't know.

Yes.

And me trying to explain that is maybe the most. One of the most powerful change agents in your life is because, one, you don't feel alone, you hear other people's stories. Two, you learn things about yourself as you hear somebody else processing their own things you don't see. And, you know, I know people who've done a marriage intensive at the Hideaway, who they regularly do an anniversary trip with. The group of people that they did intensive with, like, 10, 15 years ago. Like, that's so cool how powerful an intensive environment can be for people.

That is so amazing. Wow.

Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's interesting. I was just even reflecting on, you know, I finally made it through the Odyssey, like, about two years ago. Reading through it, you know, like, I kept putting it down, and I know Christopher Nolan's new movie is coming out this year, the Odyssey. And. Oh, yeah, I was just thinking, you know, it.

Matt Damon's in it.

Yeah. It captures a lot of the same stuff. You know, there's this. He has to get home and there's a goal, and the environments and the hospitality of people who meet him, who are expert guides, and the tools that they have and. And practicing the tools. And there's a lot of. There's a lot of. I mean, it's another green world. Yeah. It's another story. And you talked about the Bible like, these things are not new. They manifest themselves in different stories and different forms of literature, both fiction and nonfiction and movies. They're all around us. And so there's almost like this blueprint that's always existed for change, you know, and these seven things you're talking about are not, I guess, what I want to people who are listening, you know?

Yeah.

Some people are trained in marriage intensive. Some are trained in anxiety intensives. Right. Some are trained through the RT model. Some people may not be an RT therapist even listening. Yeah. Are you saying, hey, if you want to do an intensive on your own, whatever the topic is, you should do an intensive and find another CO therapist. But here are, like, the seven components that are really important to think about.

Yeah, I would definitely say that. I mean, personally, I think restoration therapy is the best to apply works so seamlessly.

It's like a clear dialogue, too. So, like, we are. We are in deep with rt.

RT has a clear map to use, and the tools are, like, great.

And the practice opportunities.

Yeah, it's so. To me, I think RT just. It blends so well with doing intensive work, you know, so. But yeah, I would definitely encourage people.

And I'm just.

Go for it.

Spitballing out loud here. I don't. We don't know at the moment. We don't have any trainings coming up for anxiety intensives. We're not training anything at the moment. Right.

Yeah.

And I don't know of any opportunities right now for training and, like, marriage intensives at the moment. So if you're listening and intensives are something you want to do, then I would encourage that people to start a dialogue with somebody, you know, and another RT therapist, you know, and that may mean leaning on you and calling you about some of the stuff we're talking about. Um, sorry, Tanner, I don't wanna. I don't wanna put your name out there. That may mean people like, contacting you since you are the clinical director. Hideaway. And just yeah, you might. Tanner, you might have, you might have some questions people could answer. I don't, I don't know. They could, people could contact me, Sharon, Terry, anybody, really. There are a lot of people doing intensives out there right now.

Yeah.

In the RT world. Michael Cox has done some cool intensives with some family stuff. You know, there's a, there's a lot of other people to reach out to, but I think it's, it's exciting to do.

Yeah.

And it's exhausting, but it's fun. Like when you're done, you're like, wow, that was, that was tiring. But it's so rewarding.

Yes. And the success rate, man. Yeah, the success rate is, is just extraordinary. Like to me, when you look at like the data on how effective these things are, it's like, why isn't everybody doing this? You know, and like I, I did, I was like asking the question in my, one of my chairs was like, it's all Sigmund Freud's fault. It's all the insurance company's faults. You know, like we, we chose as therapists convenience and, and therapy or insurance companies, you know, they're like the billable 50 minute hour. But we do not have to be victims of a historical practice, nor do we have to be victims of a insurance scheme. Knowing that in just spending, you know, it's a lot of money. You know, 2,500, $3,000 is nothing to sneeze at $4,000. But what we are offering and what we're giving to people is something that, I don't know what else you could price that at. I mean, to see the change and the deliverance that can happen is such.

A gift people may not be aware of. You mentioned a couple of numbers there, and those are things that we historically have been a part of. Communities for marriage, intensives, anxiety intensives, the going rate. But you know, there, there are intensives out there that charge 10, 12, $15,000, you know, and then, and then I think there are intensives that, that do things a little bit differently, maybe less days, and they try to get that price a little bit lower. I think at the end of the day, like, let's be honest, there, there are some details to figure out. If you do intensive, like as you and I talk about doing intensive, you got to figure out place, you got to figure out how to secure that place, what the cost is for that. You got to figure out what you charge people. You got to figure out hospitality. Because you and I, if you and I are Doing an intensive. We don't want to be in charge of the hospitality.

No, I've tried it. It's so exhausting. Don't do it. Don't do it.

So you need another person who's, like, in charge of hospitality and food, you know, and then, you know. So there are some details to figure out, but I think if you can figure it out and dial that in with enough opportunities and practice, you'll really come to enjoy that. And another name, because she's been on our podcast, and I think she's talked about it. Hattie Lee does some intensives in her office. Like, she does intensive also, you know, and so she might be a good person to lean on there and ask questions about as well. People are like, please don't mention my name. I'm gonna get all these emails.

Great. Thanks. Thanks, Rhett. Yeah, Rhett. Rhett is known for calling people out.

In a loving way.

Yes. No. Yes. Absolutely not.

A confrontational way.

No, no, no, no, no.

I. I like to connect people.

So you are. I think we both like that.

That's my fun. That's my fun thing.

Yeah.

I.

I would.

You know, if people are listening, you know, you. You. You riffed a lot on Star Wars, Lord of the rings, C.S. lewis stuff. Stuff I love, too. Right. I'm rereading the line, the Chronicles of Narnia right now.

Nice.

If people are listening, I would be curious if people would post comments about any other, like, stories or series of stories that embody some of these things that we're talking about.

Yeah.

In different fiction, nonfiction, east, west, different types of literature. I think that'd be cool. I'd love to have access to that and see what people. What are some other things that capture people's imagination with this?

Yeah, the. The other, like, the initial. The initial one is actually, as you like it, from Shakespeare. That's, like, where. That's. That's like the origin. That's why they call it a green world, because they go to the Forest of Arden. So that's. That's why it comes about. And. And, you know, Rosalind's experiencing, like, trying out different characters. Her wise counselor, expert therapist is Touchstone, who kind of helps them to try on different identities. But the other one I. The other one I liked was Silly and the Color Purple. She has these, like, really powerful experiences, and Suge. Suge comes in and helps her out. So. Yeah, it's. It's cool, man.

Well, and, you know, I encourage people to spend some time in the Book of Exodus. I mean, There's. Everything that we're talking about is in there, in this journey.

Yeah, bro. And so that's a 40 year intensive, I guess. The, the moment and the. Some are longer and some are shorter. You know, he has the. The burning bush moment, you know, which certainly. Yeah.

I was captured by a phrase last night in Exodus where it says, moses goes out beyond the wilderness to meet with Yahweh. Like, beyond the wilderness? I'm like, what is beyond the wilderness? That's like, talk about secluded environment. That's. I mean, that's holy ground we're walking on.

And wasn't that his decree he was given? He, like, he said to. To Pharaoh, he said, please let my people go and worship me in the wilderness.

Yeah.

Just please let us go for three days. Let us go. Let us worship. You know, that was. That was like the, the. The cry in that moment. You're so right. And then, you know, the whole idea is of, I will show you my wonders.

You know, like, so, so good. Let's put a pin in this because, you know, you and I, people are like, are they going to ramble forever? We, Lance and I could talk to each other. People don't know. Besides the podcast, how many times do we talk to each other during the week?

I'd say, I mean, I'm thankful. You send me, like, some of the coolest stuff to read and to think about and, you know, you talk me off a few ledges or. And you've even talked me onto a ledge.

There are some days where there's a lot of conversation. So this is fun.

Yeah. Thankful for you, bro.

Thanks, man. Thank you. For you, too. Thankful for everyone listening to episode 55.

Come on, 55. We did it.

Got some good guests coming up here soon. You're going to want to stay tuned for. So if you're listening, make sure you subscribe. Spotify, Apple, YouTube, if you like it, pass it along to friends. Check out our substack. That's it.

All right, man. Cheers.

Later.