In this episode, hosts and guests Jennifer Smith and Lorenzo Cantoja walk listeners through the "Pete the Pain Eater" intervention, a play‑based therapeutic tool that helps children identify, externalize, and process emotional pain. The conversation covers the origins and physical description of the stuffed‑animal (a zipper‑mouth "worry monster" available on Amazon), the therapeutic rationale for using a highly directive yet flexible play sequence, and a step‑by‑step demonstration where a child writes or draws painful memories (e.g., feeling excluded, being called stupid, parental divorce) and feeds them to Pete, who "eats" the pain by zipping his mouth shut. The hosts discuss how therapists can balance child‑led non‑directive moments with the structured feeding process, interpret core belief messages behind the child’s statements, and integrate spiritual language for faith‑oriented families. Practical tips include emptying Pete between sessions, storing him safely, and monitoring whether pain remains in the tool for follow‑up. The episode also touches on therapist self‑regulation, age‑appropriate language, and how the intervention fits within a broader sequence of five child‑focused interventions presented in the series.
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Foreign. We're back.
Episode 58.
Yeah, 58, bro. Dude, we're, we're, we're doing so great right now.
That was so long.
I feel like it's a continuation of our awesome guests Jennifer and Lorenzo. What? Yep. And they're walking us through five interventions for children, adolescents, I would say too.
Yeah. Dude, these guys are packed with good stuff. So open up your YouTube, watch this one live or on Spotify, change it to the video or if you're on the substack, you know, and you guys gotta. We need to see some comments on these. That's what I want to say, that.
That's right. Jennifer comments on different things. I see her name pop up. So like, she might be our best commenter.
So yeah, I'll take it.
All right. Intervention number two. You want to talk about it? What this one is called?
Yes.
Yeah.
So this is Pete the pain eater. Okay. So when we're going through this, this is going to be an intervention that can help us identify pain. So yeah, I'll run us through it and we'll find some different ways and it'll be as you guys are watching, it'll be a way that you can kind of enter kids world of play, but also still being able to access those painful feelings without it feeling overwhelming for the child where it starts to feel that. That shut down or you might get the famous. From a kid, I don't know. Right. So with that, this is a good way to really access that without really probing or trying to know. Get anything that is a little too intrusive. So yeah. Yeah, good learn.
So also just to mention where you could get this, this is a stuffed animal that has a zipper mouth.
Yep.
And so I mean, obviously, I guess you could use any kind of stuffed animal and like playfully maybe like take it. This one you could just get on Amazon and it's called. This one's specifically called Gosh Designs. But I think he's originally called like Worry Monster.
Yeah, the worry monster. I have one of those.
We're not sponsored, by the way.
We're not yet.
Not yet, yet.
Worry monster, though. We like you Worry Monster.
So let me ask you a question just so I'm clear. This is Pete the pain. Eater. Yep.
Pete the painter.
So this intervention around the pain part specifically.
Yes.
And then the first intervention we did last episode is around specifically.
Pain cycle understanding starts.
It kind of like introduces, I would say more.
The language.
Yeah, the language. So that we then. Because even now Lorenzo could be like, so Lenny. What's Lenny saying?
Got It. Okay, so you're. There's like a sequential kind of organizing principle in terms of. I don't know if this is correct, but when you introduce different characters and you walk through the model, you're kind of organizing and sequencing to lead people down a direction. Is that accurate?
Yes, accurate. So specifically with children, you know, there's the non directive play and directive models. This one obviously is very directive. However, with the. The sequencing and the structure, you can. There is room to have the kid lead and be non directive in some ways of the session. I just want to throw that out there because sometimes a kid will come in, I'll let him or her lead, and then I'll just be like, huh, that sounds pretty painful. And then I'll like bring up Pete the pain eater.
Yeah, yeah. Be like, wow, we got something to feed Pete.
Yeah.
I mean, it's the same principle. Obviously, when you're working with adults or using rt, there's this sequencing and organizing.
Say what?
I know.
Yeah.
Is that what we do? Organization?
We're trying to organize and sequence things in therapy, which, you know, sometimes when we get dysregulated as therapists and lost, it's hard to do that. So I just wanted to point that out. This is what you two are doing very well. So Intervention 2 got Pete the pain eater. Go ahead, Lorenzo. Sorry.
Right.
All right, well, welcome back in, Jen. It's good to see you.
Yeah.
How was school this week?
In the same, you know. Yeah. Not anything really different.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Yeah. I'm curious. Was, you know, last session we talked a little bit about Lenny the lying lizard. Did you see him pop up at all this week?
Yeah, like, I actually saw a lizard on the rocks the other day, but.
Yeah, you saw a lizard on the rocks.
All right.
That's awesome. I love lizards on that. I don't know if that was Lenny, but it was. That sounds cool to see a lizard in real life.
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay, well, today for our session, I want to introduce you to a friend of mine.
Oh, yeah? Who is he?
This is Pete. This is Pete.
He has a zipper on his mouth.
I know. And you know why? It's because he. Very fascinating things. Very strange things. Yeah, I know. Have you ever eaten something weird?
I really don't like spinach, so I would say spinach. I really don't like spinach. That's weird.
That's a weird. Yeah, Spinach can be weird sometimes. Yeah. Maybe the texture or. Yeah, even the smell. Yeah, no, see, with this. See, sometimes. Yeah, no, Pete, we can Just zip it up. So, you know, anything that goes in, you can kind of just whoop. Just keep it in. That's pretty cool. So really specifically, though, one of his favorite things to eat is pain. He likes to eat pain. Specifically emotional pain.
What? How do you eat pain exactly?
Now, that's a good question. I'll show you exactly how we can feed Pete because he's feeling kind of hungry today. Okay. He's feeling definitely hungry right now. So what we're gonna do is I'm gonna have you get a piece of paper.
All right?
And now what I'll have you do is you can go ahead and write out a message that has brought up some emotional pain. You know what I mean by emotional pain?
No.
Okay. Emotional pain is maybe a memory or even a statement that you've had where you started to feel maybe angry or sad. Oh, you got one coming in.
Okay.
Can I draw a picture?
Yeah, you can draw pictures. You can even draw maybe something you've heard from Lenny the lying lizard. I'll give us. How about this? I'll give us 10 minutes. Let's see how much emotional pain we can feed Pete the pain eater. Yeah, okay, I'll let you do that. I'll go over here. I'll draw. All right, so 10 minutes goes by. All right, it's been about 10 minutes. Do you think we have all the food that we can give to Pete?
Yeah, I got three.
Okay. All right, so here's what I'm gonna do. So Pete is our customer here. You're gonna be the chef, and you're gonna present us with the meal. You're gonna feed Pete today. Okay. He's good.
All right, this one.
Okay.
Crossed out heart.
Okay. Yeah.
What?
Tell me more about the crossed out heart.
Well, this one. Oh, Stomping it down is when I didn't get invited to my friend's birthday party.
Oh, when you didn't get invited to your friend's birthday party? That must have been hurtful. What did that mean to you?
That I just don't even matter to her? But doesn't just. She doesn't matter to me anymore.
Ah, it don't matter. Okay. Yeah. Well, let's go. Does that sound like something you'd eat, Pete?
All right. Okay.
He's getting good.
Dude, Lorenzo's Pete voice is so good.
All right, you ready for the next one, Pete? Okay, he's good to go.
Okay, next one. Stupid.
Stupid.
Yeah.
Okay, you felt stupid.
Well, I have to go to the math class. I have to get pulled out for Math. And go to this little kid math.
Oh, okay. Little kid math. So what does it mean to be a little kid?
Is that. Well, the friends in my class, they, you know, say, oh, you gotta go to little kids math.
Here, let's give that to Pete. Go ahead.
All right.
Next up. What do we got? I think this is our final course, it looks like. Is that right, Pete? Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay. Alone. Alone. Where have you felt alone before?
When my parents got divorced. And now I have to go back and forth from mom and dad's house, and I'm the only one in my class that has to go back and forth.
Okay, let's give this to Pete.
Pete.
There we go. All right, I think he's.
You full.
Can I sip his mouth?
Absolutely. Okay, make sure he keeps it now. There you go. He's good to go.
All right. So it won't be there when I come next time.
Yeah, we'll keep it right in here.
Okay.
He's locked away.
I'm gonna check.
Yeah, we'll check for next week. Make sure he's got it stored away. So too with that. Whenever we have these painful feelings. Right. Who can eat these?
You mean just Pete or me?
Yeah.
Can I eat them?
No, you can't eat those. But our friend Pete here can. Definitely.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we'll keep a lookout.
All right, Pete.
Mm. Say bye, Pete.
Pete better eat them. All right. And scene.
Lorenzo's got, like, the kind of Tasmanian devil voice going there. The.
That's it. I'll try to place it.
That's.
That voice, by the way, is totally optional. You guys do not have to.
Yeah, I could see where kids could really get into that. Like, shoving things down Pete's throat and like. Like, that's a really powerful stepping on.
Obviously, that wasn't narrated, but I threw one down and stepped on it. Yeah, that's been something that may or may not have happened in session before.
So, yeah, it is good. But this will help us really understand or just pull out maybe those times that the kiddos have felt pain or just understand in their language. Okay. What did that mean to them or what that specific event where they felt angry or sad meant to them. And they'll be able to pull out that actual. That core message of, like, I'm alone, I'm stupid, or I'm unimportant, or I'm uncared for. Right. Just pulling those out and that'll tie in for our next session. But, yeah, I don't think we have anything to add on.
And are you Trying to get narration there on, like, very similar to what you would do in therapy where you're trying. You might get a little narration and trying to figure out core feelings.
Yeah, yeah. So I would say with kids, obviously I'm listening for what they're saying. So usually I'll say, do you have a story of something happening? And so I usually I use wordless with adults all the time, and I don't use them with kids often. I recently did, and it worked awesomely. We'll maybe have to email it, but we do have, like an adapted word list for kids that don't have some of the coping in the other word list that might not be appropriate for kids necessarily.
Yeah.
Okay.
And then for the younger ages, you know, you might. Yeah, for the younger ages, you might get messages like, you know that I'm a bad kid or I'm just. I'm bad. Right.
Bad brother.
Yeah. Bad brother. Right. Very. Yeah. I never heard that object. No, it's like. Yeah, it's where it definitely comes in. So with that, it'll take a little bit of interpretation from the therapist to even align it with some of the. Those core root messages that you get in rt, like unloved or unsafe. Yeah. So you'll be able to tie in those messages. But when you get something where the kid objectively identifies himself as like, I'm a bad kid or I'm bad brother, or I'm just bad in general, then that's. That's pretty big. So, yeah, just a heads up, the younger that ages, the more they're going to use maybe some very limited language for describing their feelings. But. Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
And I've. I've, you know, guessed and said, oh, like unimportant or like, not. Not good enough. And I'll be like, huh? You know, just kind of guess and they'll be like, yeah. So then if. If it lands with them, then I will write that down because it's easier for me to remember as a therapist. Unimportant.
Yeah.
Not good enough than like, their specific message, although it is important sometimes I'll bring it back.
Yeah.
And use their message.
Yeah. Terry.
What is.
Terry calls that an emotional conjecture. So, yeah, not necessarily guessing, but it's like, yeah, just following what. Or what ties in, or what is the same message that aligns with what they're describing.
So that's awesome.
It's not a hard leap from an integration perspective either to, depending on the ages and who you're working with, to talk about Jesus, who takes on Our sin or pain, you know?
Exactly.
And. Or just as a kid to have. Even as they get older, there's this memory of Pete as Pete's the one that they go to. To take their. You know.
Yeah, true. Well, especially. Yeah. When we get to fireballs of pain, which will be our next one.
Yeah, it should be our next one the following week.
Yeah. It's using the truth to block. And I. If we are using spiritual integration or if a kid is from, like, a faith background, I find that they are the fast. They get to the truth faster than kids that maybe aren't. Is there. Especially if alone is a pain word. Like, well, I'm never alone. God's with me. Or like, oh, I'm loved. And they might not always go to their parents. So, like, God loves me. And it's like, such. Like you said, an easy jump. And I find that they see it much clearer than often adults do. I have to do more work with the adults because they cat. They get it faster.
Awesome. Thanks.
Anything else? Anything else we need to know about Pete as you're.
Oh, definitely make sure as the kid leaves the room empty out the pain words.
Oh, my gosh. Yeah. You don't want some other pain in there for the next session?
No.
Yeah.
And they will check. They will come back next session and check to see if it's empty.
Still there. Yeah.
So what an untanglement of. Yeah, you're gonna have to backtrack if he still has their pain.
Still has the pain. Yeah. It could be like, that happens sometimes.
It's hard to digest.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's it.
So you just want to make sure when the kid comes back, there's nothing in there.
Nothing in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And yeah, that'll segue into the next intervention pretty well, because then a kid might come back in. He's like, I've still been feeling this way. And it'll go right into intervention.
Season 2 | Episode 85 | Kamusta ka? -- Cultural diversity in therapy, athletic performance, and all things RT with Marriage and Family Therapy Associate, Kim Agramon-Bai
