In this episode of the Playful Therapy podcast, hosts welcome child‑therapy specialists Lorenzo Cantoja and Jennifer Smith to demonstrate two playful interventions: the "Fireballs of Pain" and the "Truth Shield." The segment begins with a role‑play where Lorenzo acts as therapist and Jennifer as client, illustrating how a therapist can externalize a child's painful thoughts as fiery projectiles and then empower the child to counter them with a shield made of truth statements. The dialogue walks through identifying specific negative self‑talk (e.g., "you don't belong," "unimportant," "unloved"), crafting opposite affirmations (e.g., "I belong," "I am important," "I am loved"), and physically enacting the shield with a cardboard or paper construct. The hosts discuss the underlying metaphor of "Pete the Pain Eater," the importance of safety, discretion, and tailoring the intensity of the fireballs to the child's developmental level. They reference the Playful Approach to Restoration Therapy by Dr. Nancy Fragard, highlighting how the interventions fit within her session‑plan framework. The conversation then expands to challenges of using such experiential, play‑based techniques with adults, offering suggestions for adaptation (e.g., using verbal shields, pillow‑based exercises) and emphasizing therapist embodiment of truth. Throughout, the episode provides practical tips, safety cautions, and encouragement for clinicians to integrate these tools into their therapeutic repertoire.
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All right, Lance. Episode 59.
Oh my gosh, dude. It's been like forever, bro.
59.
I feel like this is funny to us, but everyone else is actually, you know.
Yeah.
Just tuning in. Yeah, there's tuning in.
Episode 59, our awesome guest, Lorenzo and Jennifer.
Back for children specialists.
Children's specialists showing us interventions. Back with intervention number three, which you.
All call fireballs of. Is this actually two interventions in one?
Yes.
You're getting a two for one.
Okay.
It's fireball. Fireballs of pain and the truth shield. So. Yeah, I love this one. Yeah, the fun one. I'm making sure this one.
This one I like, literally started crying the first time I saw it, like go down. It was like so awesome.
It is. I think it's the one that I see in session make the most impact. Oh, sorry.
Here's a playlist for this one.
Yeah. Watch on video, on Spotify, YouTube or at the substack because you might be able to pick up some stuff listening. But it's best to see them visually here.
Yeah.
Yes.
Awesome.
Sweet.
All right, so again, Lorenzo will be a therapist. I'll be client.
Yeah. So, hi, Jen. Good to see you again. Hey, good to see ya. How's your day today?
No. You know those friends I said that didn't invite me to the birthday party.
Yeah.
And that I don't care about them. Them anymore. Cuz they're not my friends anymore. Well, they, you know, were trying to be like nice to me like nothing ever happened. And I'm like, excuse me, you didn't invite me to my birthday party or not. Or to your birthday party. Why aren't we acting like we're friends?
Yeah. So that sounds hurtful then. What? Yeah. What did that mean to you? That they just didn't acknowledge that?
Yeah. That they're treating me like I'm just don't belong and that I don't belong in a friend group. But I do. I started the friend group.
Don't belong. Yeah. That. Yeah. So you feel like you don't belong.
Yeah. Or like, like I don't matter to them.
Don't matter. Yeah. So with that. Remember last week we talked about Pete the pain eater? Yeah, that's it. It sounds like a new. It sounds like a new feeling of pain though, that you experience where you feel like you don't matter, you don't belong.
Yeah.
Is that right?
Well, yeah. To them.
To them.
Yeah.
Let's see. Let me see.
Lorenzo is writing with a marker on a note card. Or post it. Note. Sorry.
What? What Did I do that for?
Just balled up the paper and threw it at Jen violently.
Fireball. Ow, ow, ow. Yeah, those. Those don't feel good. No, this don't feel good. Yeah, here's another one, too.
They're throwing ball at. And this. This is red. Apparently that's important. I'm picking up on.
Here's another fireball of pain. Let me see. You don't belong. Sounds like that one also is a bad one.
Fight back. Fight back.
Ow. Yeah, no, these. These are intense. These are some. These are some hot ones. Yeah. Okay, so I. I think what we need to do, I think it'll be really good for us, is if we found a way to. To block these.
Well, like Pete.
Pete. Yeah, we can use Pete. Pete's always good to, you know, bring out those pain feelings and let him eat. But sometimes, what do we do when they come back?
Yeah.
And they start hurtling towards our way all fiery and hot because, you know, Pete's stomach can take it. But do you think we can eat pain like Pete?
No. No.
See, that's hard for us, so we're gonna need a different solution.
Okay.
What do you think about a shield?
Yes. Yes, a shield.
A shield.
Yes.
So with a shield. Cause it has to be made out of a very specific material to block these fireballs of pain. Yeah.
Like metal?
Like metal.
Do you have metal?
These fireballs are pretty powerful, though. They can sear through a lot of, like, metal. Maybe even fiberglass. They're powerful.
Yeah.
You know what's more powerful and more strong than those materials for these fireballs of pain?
What?
The truth. The truth.
Like shalom.
Like shalom. Exactly. Like shalom. Right. So here, let's get our. Let's. Let's start building our shield together, right? So. So here's what I'll do. I'm gonna give you this shield. This is our first little bit. This is our blade right here. Blade. Whatever panel this is to block us, right? And then I'll get together the handle. But this shield, okay, we need to write the exact opposite of these fireballs of pain, right? These words that protect us from the lies, Right?
Yeah.
So let's say what might be a message that protects you from this lie here. You don't belong.
Well, I know that I'm not abandoned or not alone. Because God is always with me.
Okay, perfect. Let's go ahead and add that to our shield. Let's wrap it down good.
So say never abandon.
Yeah.
Never alone. I'm gonna say never alone.
That's a good One. Okay. Oh, and how about let's make sure the shield covers all of our pain. Right. How about one you've even mentioned before you felt unimportant.
Yeah.
Even right now. I know we haven't. Don't have it in the fireball of pain here, but you've mentioned it before. I know. That's a fireball.
Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm important.
I'm important.
That's good.
All right, how about you are uncared for.
Uncared for. Well, obviously, I'm cared for by my parents.
Okay. Yeah.
So should I just say cared for?
Cared for. Okay. That's awesome. All right, so let's go ahead. Let's construct the shield. Now. Do you have all your messages there?
Yep.
Okay, so. So here's what we're gonna do.
So the shield, she just wrote all this stuff on the shield?
Yes, exactly. And now we got the handle here. Okay, so let's test out our shields.
Okay.
I'm gonna give you these fireballs of pain, okay. And I need you to defend them with your shield. But in order to activate your shield, you have to say these messages out loud to block these specific fireballs. Okay, you ready?
Yes.
Here we go. You don't belong.
I belong.
You're unimportant.
Important. Woo.
You almost got me. You're unloved.
I'm loved.
Good.
Here's another one.
Yeah.
I'm not alive.
Oh, yes. You're unimportant.
Unimportant.
You're unloved.
I'm not unloved.
Oh, my goodness. Yes, you are powerful. It looks like.
Yeah.
Yeah. There you go.
Yes. Hero pose going on right now.
Wow. It looks really.
For those of you that were listening, that Jy was just like. She had her shield out and she was like, bashing the shield like it was, you know, she was like a warrior attack, like, banishing the. The evil beast down. It was. Is very ferocious as she shouted out each truth. Absolutely amazing.
Awesome. So we're at our time now, but what can we use now? Whenever we feel those fireballs of pain or Lenny's messages get thrown our way, what do we have now that can help us?
Well, I mean, I can't always take my shield with me because at school we're not allowed to bring toys. But I guess I could just say, like, I'm important.
Yes. That is beautiful. Yes. You absolutely.
You're like, I'm not alone.
Yes. Whenever those messages come in, you absolutely can say that. You can say, I'm important.
And it's Like a force field.
It is a force field. Yes. You can put your hands out like this if you need. Yeah, there you go.
Okay.
I love that.
All right.
Nice job today.
Good work. All right, and scene.
No, I was thinking. And this is my own challenge as a therapist with adults. It's hard to get up. It's hard for me sometimes to be experiential when I need to be, or I find myself. We've talked about being fearful about something. But the beautiful thing about working with kids, it seems like there's so many opportunities to just naturally embody your truth and to get into things that seem like normal, like, it's a part of play. But when you're working with adults, the anxiety for maybe therapists or adults to want to play in the room and to do something experiential is challenging. So I just. Again, I'm like, how powerful for a kid at a young age to, like, embody their truth?
Oh, it's. It's amazing. And I love it because they take it another level. Like, they'll dive and, like. Like, I have to throw the balls, like, a little more challenging because they'll, like, dive and, like, do, like, a roll.
Yeah.
Or like, they'll totally. And they say it with. They're not like, I'm unimport or I'm important.
And if you get that, then it's like, okay, we have to go more into where they want to go. Like, if you get this energy that they're like, you know, like, you sense that they're not really playing or they're into the convention. We can always redirect to something or.
Someplace that they need to go or even reflect that. Or reflect that.
Yeah, there you go.
Looks like you're not quite into, but I honestly, I've never had that happen.
Yeah.
So with.
By the way, these interventions that we're watching are all in the playful approach to restoration therapy by Dr. Nancy Fragard. Just so you know. Yeah, there it is. There it is.
Screenshot it. But, yeah, it's a. It's a really fun intervention. The kids, yeah, they really. It's a good opportunity to just enter their world of play. So I think it's super fun.
And the fireballs of pain, like Lorenzo in this example did it randomly, which has worked. It kind of gets a kid be like, what. What's going on? But you can set it up to be like, oh, yeah, pain. You can lead it into it more if you find that the kid needs a little more explanation.
Yeah.
Like, if they. If you Kind of know their background and maybe unsafe is like. Of pain that they're dealing with. I usually am more careful.
Yeah.
With just something at them.
Yeah.
So, yes, definitely. I want to say that use your discretion on how you approach or set that intervention up as far as throwing a fireball at them.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Especially with safety. So good. Heads up.
Yeah, yeah.
You can get a little too playful. Yeah, yeah.
I actually, after you all were on episode 45, I had a couple play therapists who aren't in the RIT community but listen to the podcast, and they were so impressed, they went on about the book. So we're slowly converting.
Oh, that's awesome.
Therapist. Into RT because of you, you all.
So it's such a great book. I can't recommend it enough. It's like, here, you have a child come in. Here's 20. Is it 20 sessions?
Yeah. From like, start to end. Yeah, yeah.
It's like a. You know, Nancy comes from a teaching background, so, you know, it's like lesson plans, but they're session plans.
Yeah.
So it's so good. I think every new therapist was great.
It is.
Yeah, it was great.
It's super helpful guide. It gives you just step by step how to do it. And then checking for understanding, too. It guides you through the process just to make sure the kid understands. Like, it's really amazing. Yeah. I love it.
Well, and even if you're not a play therapist, work with children. I think, like, you could read it and. And modify things for adults.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly.
Yeah. And if you think about it like that, I mean, you got almost unlimited interventions right there in your back pocket that you can, you know, when you mix it up and you do your own little, you know, bit and include yourself and you invite yourself into it. It really does.
Can.
Yeah. Show a little.
And I do this. I actually will do this with my clients where I will take. I have note cards in my office, and I will, like, write it the. The word on there, and I'll throw the note card at them, like, where it's balled up. And I have them. I use the pillows on the. Like. And I'll have them, like, say the truth with the pillow.
Yeah.
And I. I like. And I'll differentiate the two. Like, here you are, you're just taking all these hits all this time, but you're not like, really armoring yourself to take care of yourself. And. Yeah. So it actually, it's a good. It's. It works for adults as well.
Season 2 | Episode 85 | Kamusta ka? -- Cultural diversity in therapy, athletic performance, and all things RT with Marriage and Family Therapy Associate, Kim Agramon-Bai
