In this episode, host Lance interviews clinicians Jennifer Smith and Lorenzo Cantoja about the Empty Chair Bear (ECB) intervention, a therapeutic tool for children aged roughly 5‑12 that uses a stuffed animal (often a bear) placed in a "magic chair" to externalize and personify the child's emotional pain. The conversation outlines how to set up the ECB session, including introducing the bear, framing it as sharing the child's feelings, and using coaching techniques similar to re‑parenting. They discuss strategies for guiding the child to speak truthfully to the bear, checking the bear’s statements, and employing coping characters like a dove. The clinicians emphasize the importance of slowing down, softening the therapist’s voice, and allowing the child to explore truth. A substantial portion of the dialogue focuses on involving parents: having parents observe, coach, or directly interact with the bear before and after the child’s turn, using the session to strengthen attunement and reinforce the identified truths. Practical suggestions for session flow, parent coaching, and observing the child's spontaneous insights are shared, highlighting the flexibility and therapeutic value of ECB in fostering emotional awareness and repair.
Chapters
Lance, episode 60.
60. At 60. We're cruising, dude. What do we. What was our goal again? I can't remember how many we're trying to get to. Our goal is by the end of
the year is to get to, like, 100,
so.
Dude, it's only. It's only, like, early in the year right now. I don't know when this episode's gonna release or not, but when it's gonna release.
But I'm excited for multiple episodes with some fun guests.
Dude, these people. I'm sure you've already been watching, but Jen Lorenzo are bringing the heat, bro.
That's right.
Literally.
So we've been building the last few episodes, sequencing, organizing interventions, RT interventions. But for work with children 5:12. I know we can kind of go different age groups here. And we're continuing the work. What intervention would you call this?
This one is called ecb, or empty chair bear.
Okay. I love it.
Yes. So this one again, this is another one to help explore the truth. So you could do this one before fireballs of pain. I think it's better to allow the kid to even sink deeper into the truth and really practice the truth a little bit more. Besides the last one we just did with the truth shield, this one, I don't know if we have to demonstrate it as much as we do the other ones, because this one is very similar to what RT therapist might do with, like, reparenting, except for we're using, like, an actual object. In this case, we're using a bear. This is another puppet bear, and we give them a name. Ecb. Ecb. So to set this one up, well, at this point, we know the client's story a little bit more. So I talk about ecb, that he is experiencing the same pain that my client is. I might. I'll change the story, though, so it's a little bit different. And I will talk about. We have this magic chair, you know, and to get a little more buy in, I might ask, do you know any magic tricks? If you, as a therapist know a magic trick, now is your time to shine and say, you know. Yeah, with magic tricks, you know, sometimes it makes things disappear or go away. We're gonna do a little bit of magic here, and we're gonna have ECB sit in our magic chair. And I'm gonna invite you to tell. I know that, you know, client what ACB feels like. He feels alone, unimportant, out of control. I think that you could actually talk to ECB and kind of tell him what. What's real about him, what's true. And I'll, at that point, invite the client to talk to ECB in the magic chair, telling him, you know, this might take a little coaching. He'll be like, well, just stop doing that. Or, like, just do different. I'm like, oh, yeah. And I'm kind of looking at ucb, and I don't know if he really believes that or that's, like, really helping. What's real about him is he unloved, unimportant. So it might take some coaching in that point. And again, same as you would with a re parenting technique. Don't be afraid of slowing down, softening your voice and really allowing the kid slowly. Sometimes I'll have him use or I'll help them use their coping character or the dove to talk to ECB
and
talk through the puppet, and they'll identify the truth. So then I'll, you know. Oh, so I hear you're telling him he's important and never alone and can control himself. Yeah, let's. Let's check. Let's see. Let's see if it works. Pick up ecb. All right, ecb. What's going on? And I'll have ecb. Like, yeah, I am loved and important. And, like, play the story from a place of truth. Yeah, that's empty chair. Mirror that.
And then. So sometimes you have to coach them a little bit. Sometimes you have to kind of guide them, kind of like you would with any repair team. Now, do you build it up with reparenting, where I. I do just leave it there.
Yeah. Straight to it. Mainly because they're at that age where it's like, the beginning of reparenting would happen. And I don't believe that. Yeah. The reparenting doesn't necessarily need to take place. It's almost like, hey, this is talking to the final target. Yeah.
And do you ever.
Oh, no, I just. You like when you do. I mean, obviously, since it's called Empty Bear chair or Empty Chair Bear. The bear is always the one. The character that you'll use in the empty chair.
I'll use the bear. Yeah. So any kind of teddy bear, obviously. And again, if it's empty chair. Duck. If you happen to have a duck, you could use any object as long as it's a stuffed animal. Personified.
Yeah. Personified version of the pain. Yeah.
And you make up the story that you're telling it just like you, you know, whatever their pain is.
I'm thinking with this session, do you ever have the parents engaged as well?
Yes. Yes. Actually, I'm plugging this in real quick, so I might move this. Lorenzo, do you want to talk about. Have you had parents engage?
Oh yeah. With Empty Chair Bear, specifically, or two. You know, so with the parent approach and parents coming in and we get the parents involved. Cause too it can be with the kiddo and especially with Empty Chairbearer. The goal of it, we're not trying to just have them repairing, you know, the parents are there. We have the great opportunity, the parents are there to take on and understand this truth. So with that, I think it is helpful and beneficial to identify even moments when that truth is with the parents.
Right.
Our parents have spelt that before and you can identify that with the kid. But you know, when you have those moments where you're with the parents themselves and you're talking and you guys are going over like, okay, what are some activities you guys do? And just really encouraging those strengthening activities that emphasize that truth. That is how I can see this being so helpful with the kiddos and inviting the parents in.
At least I'm imagining. Yeah, I'm imagining that like I would have, like if I had my. If I had a parent in there, I'd want the parent to first talk to Empty Chair Bear, then I'd want to have the kids sit on the chair and speak and then have the parents speak to the kid. So you kind of have like that build up almost like you. Is it. Is that. Would that be like something that y' all would do?
No, I think that that is a brilliant way of using that.
That is, yeah. That is. I can see that that'd be useful.
I think, I think too sometimes. So that would be really helpful too. Especially if we're trying to strengthen attunement with parents and kid.
Yeah,
I guess I'm just thinking of a couple specific cases that I've experienced where like maybe parents need a little bit of coaching before I would maybe just a little to maybe. And sometimes I feel like even just letting them observe happening and to be like, oh my gosh, my kid. Because I do think it is important to begin, especially depending on the age, like a 12 year old, I want that 12 year old to identify that truth within themselves. And I think it'd be great for a parent to observe that and then to reinforce it.
Yeah.
What I'm saying, like it started with the kid. The kid believes this or maybe he's heard it from his parents or whatever. And then the parent gets to then give an example of guess that is true and gets to affirm it after the fact.
Yeah.
Sweet.
Yeah.
I think I love. I love that flow. I think kind of gives parents a little window in. I'm always trying to figure out my daughter, like, what flies in this world of pain in your little heart, girl. And sometimes. Sometimes when I have her do working with her little characters, I can see what she really is desiring and the pain that's going on. So then I'm always like, exactly.
Well, good point, because that's what I mean by let kind. Let's see. Let's wait and see what the kid is coming up with.
Yeah.
And I'm like, blown away a lot of times what the kid comes up with. I might. But he'll learn. They'll, like, say different things. I'm like, actually, that's amazing that you came up with that. And that's probably more true for you than maybe what I would have come up with for you. Yeah.
Season 2 | Episode 85 | Kamusta ka? -- Cultural diversity in therapy, athletic performance, and all things RT with Marriage and Family Therapy Associate, Kim Agramon-Bai
