Season 2 | Episode 71 | Special Guest, RT Therapist Laura Matheson

Lance, what's going on, dude?

That, that, that 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 countdown was a lot faster this time. How are you doing, bro?

I'm good. Episode 71 of RT Dialog.

Septuagint plus one.

That's right. I hope people listen to the last one, um, episode 70 with Dr. David Taylor. That was awesome.

That was great. That was awesome. I'm still thinking about it.

It is.

It was great. Let's— we got a special guest, but before you introduce her, let's walk through a couple announcements because, um, we were kind of gonna have to start off with saying Um, I was wrong, you know, I was wrong.

I'm gonna start off with that. I was wrong, right? Is that okay? Can I be wrong?

We were kind of wrong. We were in the ballpark.

Yeah.

So RT Summit 2027, Malibu, Malibu at Pepperdine.

It's still there.

It's still there, but it is March 4th and 5th. Yes, which is a Thursday, Friday. Thursday, Friday, not 5th and 6th, because we're not— we don't have it on Saturday. That way people can hang out in Malibu, make it a weekend, and just works better with the scheduling in terms of campus. So, uh, the website will probably be up and running by June 1st for early bird registration, maybe earlier. So we'll announce that and, um, We know for sure all day Thursday, all day Friday will be the training and the conference. And that Wednesday night, we will probably do something, but it'll be loose affiliated because we're not doing a big dinner like we did last time in Amarillo. It's just, it's too big, it's too cost prohibitive, but we'll probably have some type of hangout or gatherings for people who are coming into town that evening. Or that day.

Absolutely. And Rhett, I heard you like, you just had that fun thing in Texas.

Oh yeah, we— so shout out to my Texas people. There were, um, 25 of us at dinner in Austin Friday night, Mexican food, and then we had a 7-hour CEU training on forgiveness on Saturday, uh, with Dr. Eric Ehle, which was awesome. We went super deep into the forgiveness model. And some new things that Eric's kind of been working in that area, and I want to, you know, say thank you to specifically Stacy, Stacy Rachmanis and Brian Speed of Hill Country Bible Church. That group, they've RT trained or they've had RT trained from you and others about 10, I think about 10, 12 staff members, and so it is going to be a huge epicenter, I think, for us there in Austin. And then also a special thank you to Carrie Mead, who practices here in Trophy Club, who also helped organize the event. And we had, um, 22 show up at training. Those extra 3 weeks on here. Yeah, we'll get Carrie on here. So anyways, Austin was great. I left, um, feeling like my cup was full, but like pretty exhausted because we were, we were in it pretty deep. Um, and I got to see a lot of people that I don't actually know in person. You yet and meet them face to face. And, you know, I just hope that our community here in Texas and other communities, um, around the country are gathering in their local RT little hubs. I think it's important to meet face to face when you can.

So it's the best.

Yep.

Excited. And then, uh, training's coming up.

Yeah. So we want to highlight, um, Level 2 training with, um, Stephanie Levens. I almost said— I almost said it wrong again, man. Stephanie is doing a training June 4th and the 5th and August 6th and the 7th for Level 2. Okay, we're gonna talk a little bit about Level 2 training today. Um, uh, so excited for that training coming up with Stephanie. Um, and, um, so yeah, make sure— they usually fill up pretty quickly. So if you've been thinking about getting Level 2 trained, I would say go.

Yeah, yep. Awesome. I think that's it today, people. Those are the announcements.

Boom! Come on, come on, come on, guys. Today we got a fun guest. I got to meet this guest, uh, through, um, my— through a Level 2 training. Uh, it was really exciting. I really like this up-and-coming, uh, uh, phenom therapist, Laura Matheson. Uh, am I saying it wrong?

No, I just love that you didn't introduce me that way. Thank you.

The phenom.

Hey, you know, you gotta, you gotta have some fun accolade there. But she's got a lot of accolades. Uh, she practices up in the Pacific Northwest, uh, in Renton or Renton, uh, depending on which part of town you're in, uh, Washington. Uh, I, I really enjoy getting to meet her. Uh, she is actually a bilingual therapist, so I know a lot of you are— I get requests here and there of people looking for bilingual therapists. Uh, so if you need a Spanish-speaking RT therapist, we're talking to one today. Muy bien. Yeah.

Do you think she heard my awesome Spanish speaking last episode?

I did. I was impressed.

I was impressed. I'm working on it.

But, uh, I'm excited to hear, hear her story. She practices up in, uh, um, Washington area. Um, she has her own practice, so we might get to talk about that today. She likes, um, work with kids, so, um, that's, that's great. And, uh, she— how many kiddos do you have now, Laura?

I actually don't have a lot of kiddos right now.

I have about 2 right now on my caseload.

So it's been, uh, I have a couple teens that I've been seeing.

I've been seeing— I'm located near high school, so I've been getting a lot more teens referred over to me.

But, um, but historically I've been almost all kiddos, and, and now I'm seeing a lot of adults too.

RT has brought some adults into my—

you're adulting.

I'm adulting now. I love it. I love it. I love them all though, you know.

Yeah, well, I, I really appreciate Laura. She, she dove in, uh, pretty quickly with RT, um, and our Level 2 training. So excited to have you on today. Um, and, uh, yeah, I'm sure we'll get to talk about a lot of fun things. So welcome.

Thank you.

Thank you guys. I'm so excited to be here and talk to some experts of NRT. Yeah, it's awesome.

Well, we use that word experts loosely around here.

I mean, Rhett is really smart.

So, uh, Laura, no, no pressure, but who are we gonna get to, um, who's gonna start the Pacific Northwest face-to-feet, a face-to-face gathering?

I mean, you know, I could have it.

I, I know that there's one in Oregon that we've been, that I've been wanting check out with.

I, um, right now I'm part-time mommy, part-time therapist, so, uh, it's, uh, I haven't gotten the chance to go yet because it kind of interrupts. I need to have it scheduled with my son's naps essentially to be able to make it there. But, um, but yeah, it—

I think that'd be really cool. There are, um, there are a couple RT therapists up here I know that there's a lot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason Wilkinson. Yeah, the second Thursday of the month they do an online, and then, uh, Justin Little and his cohort there in Oregon. So, oh yeah, cool stuff coming out of Pacific Northwest.

So, dude, and, and Dr. Shaw, guy is such a character. Yeah, yeah.

All right, enough of that. So I'm gonna start with the first question. So I— you just finished up a Level 2 training, right, in January?

Correct.

So you're, you're several months outside of that training and I'm kind of curious, like anything in particular that after you get out of training a few months, something that like you're finding, I don't know, that really like stuck with you and has really empowered your work. And the flip side, maybe you're also, man, that is hard. Like that piece on Level 2 training is really hard and I'm feeling stuck. I need to work in that area a little more.

Oh man, those are great questions. Um, yeah, I mean, so Lance was the, the leader of our training, our brave leader.

This is our feedback session. This is where I'm gonna learn what I could have done better.

I don't have too much like anything that too much negative to say. I was really— I don't know, I'll say— I'll throw a quick little story there before I go into it, that on our first day Lance showed up and he had He had been sick all week and he had a little barf bucket.

Dude, it was brutal.

And I was like, this man is impressive, dedicated to this work. I'm so impressed with him because I don't think I would have been there if I had needed a barf bucket next to me. So that was my introduction to Lance. But the— no, it was an incredible, incredible training.

I like, I remember I left and I felt so refreshed in the RT principles and applying it with my clients. I felt like I was able to get some really good sessions going that in places where I'd been feeling kind of stuck before with some clients, I was able to bring some new, new elements. He introduced me to some— I'd always been using, what is it called, reparenting. It was— had been kind of my thing that I had done with all my clients. And so then using future self and other techniques to get to, um, get to the peace cycle was— helped me get unstuck with quite a few people who just— the going into the family, that they weren't ready to go into like family, family stuff to get to that place, I guess would be the best way of explaining it. And, um, another really cool thing is, um, I, I don't think there's a lot of trainings that talk about the integration of faith into therapy. And, um, since, since going to that training, I felt really empowered. I was so fun— funny thing about our training was there was a, a whole group of people that were working at a church together, at a church where he was, where Rhett was.

Really?

Yeah, in Austin, Hill Country Bible Church. Yeah, yeah.

So all the characters, he got to hang out with them this last weekend.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh, they're wonderful people, aren't they?

That's awesome. Yeah, that's hilarious.

Yeah, though I've been chatting with this one, one of them, and me and her are going to get together, I think, and talk more about doing RT with kids.

But who's that?

I'm like totally, I'm so embarrassed. Like whenever I get put on the spot to remember people's names, I just blank on their names. So I could probably tell you in like 10 minutes what her name is.

Was Amanda Tipps in that? Amanda at dinner, and she was sharing her stories about working with adolescents and stuff.

Yes.

And they were amazing stories. So when you said another person, I was like, I thought it was Amanda.

Yes. Yeah, she's an incredible children's therapist. Getting to watch her a little bit working with kids, I was so impressed by, uh, her ability to engage with them and just having them run around the room. She's, she's great.

So And her and I are gonna chat. But yeah, so, but going back to the, um, the Level 2 training, I think, um, yeah, it was just empowering to be able to bring— hearing other people talk about bringing their faith into the, into the room. And, um, and I was able to again get some other clients that I've had really stuck, um, unstuck through talking about the scriptures, talking about like Okay, this is what your mom said about you. This is what your dad said about you. What does Christ say about you? Um, and being able to do reparenting in that sort of way, um, has been very, uh, very impactful in some of my work with some clients. So can't recommend Level 2 training enough.

It's, it's a little nerve-wracking because you have to present, you have to record and present, uh, your, uh, your work in front of people.

Yeah.

So that part, so it was—

but Lance did an amazing job of making it a really calming, like, a calm environment.

He talked about, like, I'm assuming this is your worst work, which was really relaxing to me. He's like, this is so, you know, this is a place for us to just, um, look at this and, and not— we're not going to, like, make a bunch of judgments about if something went south in that session.

This is what we're here for, right, is to talk about it and Um, and, uh, yeah, it was, it was really cool. I don't think there's a lot of live supervision trainings that I've been to that you get to like sit through a session with like a person who's really knowledgeable in that particular theory and get direct feedback. Um, so that was incredibly useful to me and to those clients that we were able to review. Yeah.

I don't think that feeling ever goes away, like, no matter how old you get. Like, when you're being— when your peers and people you respect are watching you do the work, even though they've provided a very loving and safe environment for you to do that, it's still like, yeah, we all get into our pain cycles when we're— when we're being observed. It's wild.

Sorry, I—

that's okay.

I did not know that that could happen on my computer. That just happened.

But Lance does a good job. Yeah. You know, and we all got to see, I don't know, you weren't there, but in, uh, last, this last year, like 2 years ago.

Oh no, man.

When was it? February 2025. Man, time is flying. We got to all watch Lance work on stage. Um, in front of a room, a room full of like 180 people. Watched Lance and Michael Cox and Terry, right, work with a, with a person. And so, you know, were you nervous then, Lance?

Oh yeah, it was— whenever you're— well, it was live too, so it was like a live— like, we, like, you know, we, we knew our participant, but we didn't know what— how they would respond to the work or what would happen. And you know, so that was, that was pretty exciting. Um, so yeah, I always think, you know, when, whenever you're presenting material, for me, I, I like to show my bad work. I mean, I don't mind being like showing the good stuff too, but like I'm always, I'm there to learn. And if I'm, if I'm showing the work where I'm struggling, like here, I'm trying to, I don't know what's going on with this client. And I'm trying to get better here. Help me out, you know. I think it's always nice to show your really good work and be like, oh yeah, yeah. But then the worst part is when you show your really good work and, you know, I've done this with Terry a couple times and he's like, wow, okay. And you're like, oh man, this is gonna be a like Kudos to you, Lance. Um, so, but anyways, I, I love level 2. I love showing work. I think showing work is that thing, you know, when, when we look at, um, people that want to get better, um, there's this, uh, thing called deliberate practice. Um, and then deliberate practice, uh, you've heard the rule of like 10,000 hours, um, that it takes 10,000 hours to be a master of anything, right? That's the, like, that's the clinical thing that they talk about. Well, one of important things about those 10,000 hours is a bunch of those hours, it's really important for them to be, um, like reviewed. Like, to, to— in order to grow and get better, to— you need to set little goals for yourself, and, you know, you need to have someone giving you feedback on how you're doing it. Because if I, I could go to— I could walk 10,000 hours, you know, in a, you know, couple of years, but my walking might not improve. But if I'm getting someone giving me feedback Um, that's where we get better. And I feel like, um, when people notice what you're doing in therapy— oh, okay, so this is, this is a moment where you could have slowed it down.

Yeah.

All right, I'm gonna be more mindful of that next time I jump in the room. Um, so I'm all about getting the feedback. So definitely do Level 2. Um, yeah. So, but Laura, we didn't get to hear about your pathway into RT yet. This— I like your pathway in, so why don't you be able to share? There was uh, somebody that really needed you to go through Level 2 training— or not, um, to go through and learn about restoration therapy.

Yeah, yeah, I think I know what you're referring to, but honestly, me was probably the person that the, the, the, the most—

but oh yeah, probably that too.

But no, so, um, I, uh, I went to Fuller Seminary and I was one of the the lucky people that got to train under Terry. I remember just being so amazed and impressed by this theory that he developed. And so through his teaching, I was able to come up with my own peace and pain cycle. And it's really funny because at the time when I was at the seminary, I'd just gone through a really rough breakup. And, you know, a year or so later, I met my husband and was talking about it.

He's like, I don't think I would have— I really truly don't believe that he probably would be with me if I hadn't gone through the RT cycle that I went through and learned about myself and these things I was doing.

Because it was, um, you know, that past self— I mean, there were some things that I was dealing with from childhood. And, um, learning these new ways of how I can engage in my peace and be in my peace even when things are throwing me off and I'm feeling unwanted or I'm feeling unloved has been truly amazing. Um, and it's so funny since I was telling you guys, since I've done the Level 2 training, sometimes now when I'm off, my husband will be like, are you in your pain cycle right now?

And I'm like, yeah, I'm in my pain cycle. I gotta go back to the peace cycle. I gotta get back in, gotta get back in the right place. Yeah, that's my journey.

Nice. What year were you at Flour again?

I graduated 2018.

2018. That would have been— trying to think of the characters I would know from that. Was Jacob in your class, or Kelly Robinson?

I don't remember either of those names.

Those are okay.

Yeah, they're—

shout out to those guys, we love you.

You know, the cool thing about— and this is what I think why we do the podcast, like, um This idea of like the RT community, I was thinking about, because Lance and I a few weeks ago, we had Brad Stolberg on, the author of The Way of Excellence, and one of the things he says is— yeah, there you go, Lance is showing the book— really, to master a craft, he says, what you need to do is you need to embed yourself in a community and at least spend the next 10 years there. Going deep into the work, you know. And, um, those 10,000 hours, you know, it's not just a random 10,000 hours, which I think everyone kind of took it as that when Malcolm Gladwell published his book about that. But in the research, um, in that book Peak by Anders Ericsson, they talk about the deliberate— you have to be— it's an intentional 10-hour, 10,000 hours of practice. And I think that's why it's important in RT that we we do all these trainings, that we get in communities, that we practice together, you know, and this is a community that we can go like really deep with and become really good at the work. So I'm glad you're on, I'm glad you got into Level 2 and you got a good group of people up there in the Pacific Northwest to like dig in deep with. It's awesome. Sorry, that's my, uh, that's my plug for people listening to dig deep into the RT community. And train, train, train.

Yes.

Yeah. And I think the other thing I'm hearing from you, Laura, is this, this work isn't just this like fun therapy model that you saw and that, you know, it's really— it actually is something that changed you.

It changed my life. Absolutely.

Yeah. And I think that's the thing that is so novel about Restoration Therapy, that, um, It is something that has invited not only for us to, to use in a room, but to actually live out in our own lives. And that's, that's something that probably makes you an amazing therapist. It's probably part of your shtick. Um, it's like, you know, not only do you, uh, talk about the product, but you use it as well.

Yeah, absolutely. It's so funny, my husband, he's, he's got— I'm talking about him a lot today. He's gonna love listening back to this and hear me say all these things. But he'll sometimes, when I'm struggling with things, he'll be like, What would you tell your client to do in this situation?

And I'm like, wow. And it always like, I was like, pause.

And I'm like, oh, I would tell them to like think about the present moment and who they are now and not who they were in the past or this or that.

And I'm like, man, I'm a good therapist. That helped me.

What's your husband do for work?

He's a chemical engineer, so nothing even remotely related to this.

But I think—

Oh, chemical engineer. I think he would be a really great therapist. Yeah, I, I—

one thing I'm curious about, I know a little bit about your history just doing some research. So at the University of Washington, it looks like you got into some mentorship or, uh, qualitative analysis and stuff with Marsha, Marsha Linehan, who people don't know is the founder of DBT. Yeah, that's right, which is obviously a significant model. Um, lots of people, uh, work out of that model. Um, lots of colleagues that I practice with here Um, that's, you know, primarily what they use in their work, especially with adolescents and stuff. And so I'm kind of curious about you— you're exposed to that and you're working in deep in that model. I mean, I'm assuming you still use it and, and stuff, but is there anything, I don't know, that differentiates like RT and DBT in some ways that you think are interesting, or some ways that they, um, are there's a synthesis between the two.

Yeah, I definitely think, um, the art— so I'll say a couple things. So DBT is an amazing theory. It's like the book of DBT is this huge book, right? She has like a million different handouts that you can give to your clients and things. And like, like there's for everything. You bring your client, bring something, you can go to her book and probably find a specific intervention to that.

Yeah, there it is.

Nancy's holding it up. The dialectic The Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook.

Yeah, good, a great book and a great, and a great theory.

Um, but I, uh, um, I think one of the things that I really, um, enjoy about RT is you have this sort of one overarching understanding of a person's behavior, right? So there's, um, you're not having to like refer over to this or that, or like, did you use this skill or did you use that skill? Like, what could have you done in this because you're just using the 4 steps, the P.E.A.C.E.

and the B.E.A.M.

And I think that really helps to organize people when they're feeling all caught up. I remember Terry talked a lot about the content versus the process in therapy. And, you know, you can get really caught up in the content in the moment when your client's coming in, they're talking about, my mom did this, my dad did this, this happened, that happened, and I was here and this was over, over. And so being, you know, or with couples, you know, like they talk about this one specific fight. And when you can bring them back to, how does that fit in your cycle? We know that you get stuck in this cycle. This is like, you know, this is what we know you do. How does it fit in there? Oftentimes they go, oh, you're right. I was back in my pattern again. And here's how I can get out of that pattern. So it gives you like a, I guess, talking about the 10,000 hours, right? It gives them one thing to really work on and perfect versus trying to pull all these different coping skills that sometimes don't come to your mind in that moment when you're really overwhelmed and And, you know, in that place of pain. But still, DVT has been, yeah, incredible. I love it.

Yeah, Marsha as a character, she was great. I got to have dinner at her house once. Really? She offered us all wine, and we were all undergraduates. And then she's like, "It's fake wine, you guys. Ha ha!" She's a really funny lady. It was really cool.

Getting to meet her.

Yeah, I, I think DBT has a lot of, um, a lot of their mindfulness practices are— yeah, I think it's really great. Um, you know, this is one of the things that, um, you know, if you're working with, you know, particularly like, um, high-level personality disorders, you know, um, if, you know, it's sometimes easier to find a DBT group, um, to kind of refer those people to. Um, so I find that, that getting them in the here and now can be really helpful. So I agree with you, um, that DBT has some really cool practices, um, but I like RT works as a better roadmap, but you can always steal things that, that flows into that. And yeah, I can't believe you got to hang out with Marsha.

It was at her house. It was crazy. It was crazy. But, um, yeah, I— it's so funny, like, the difference between her and Terry though as people is like so interesting. These two founders of these really cool, uh, therapy piece, but just their personalities are so, so different. Unpredictable. Yeah. And Terry's like very grounding and calming as a person, I feel like.

So, um, yeah, it, uh, but thinking about like, uh, right, you were asking about like the similarities. I do think there are similarities too in like the cognitive behavioral kind of thing of like, I think there is some, some similarity of you're getting stuck in these certain, like, thoughts, right, about yourself. I'm unlovable. I'm not— I'm this, I'm that. And we're kind of working to change those cognitions into something like having specific things that we're changing them into, right? And then that changes your behavior, which leads to alterations in your relationship. So there is some similar— I do feel like there is some, some similarities in the two, in the two theories.

Yeah, I One of the things I was thinking about was just something that is, I think, unique about RT, but I think other models would say it's similar, is that I think we're not just after changing our thinking, right? We're after a thinking, like you said, that is embodied in a way that leads to different types of actions. I think when I'm working with clients, it's easy for me to just get into this mindset where I think I'm trying to get them, it seems like, just to change their thinking. And if they change their thinking, then things will flow from that. But what I do love about RT, and what I think I'm still working on as a therapist, is trying to help people embody that thinking in a way that feels concrete, where it moves from head to heart, you know. Um, and that's— I know in Level 2 you guys do a lot of that, right, Lance? You're trying to get them to practice a little more and do some more embodied work.

Yeah, I feel like with Level 2, what happens is we go from this model that we look at, um, and it's very structured and all these things. And I think with Level 2, what we do is we find out, so what does it look like, um, when Laura does Level 2, or when Laura does Restoration Therapy? So it's very personalized where the model enters the person, right? And, and we figure out our own way of implementing that, that model. And I've seen so many people over the years after, after Level 2, they're like, oh, I'm allowed to do this. And like, yes, you are.

It's—

I know it's a, it's a model that's like very clear on like the roadmap and how to do it, but there is flexibility in how we flow it, particularly with our personalities, you know, our, our faith, you know, our— the things that interest us, all these things. Give us a way in. So yeah, I'd agree for sure that Level 2 is very much this thing that allows for a person to really find themselves in the theory.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's really cool getting to watch other people and how they, how they use that. They use the theory, but it looks so different in some ways and so similar in some ways, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, well, one of the things, you know, I, I know you like working with it, is, uh, is it adolescence? Like, is, is there a specific age group that you love?

Oh my gosh, I mean, there's definitely a group that I struggle with more and a group that I love more.

I'd say I get— I struggle with preteens a little bit. I think that they like bring me back to that like awkward preteen stage of my life.

Oh my gosh, really? Is it like hard?

I just feel like they don't always like— I'm not as cool, so I have to really work to like around myself to be present.

I love, like, uh, like, um, after 13, I would say like 13 and up, the self-discovery, them figuring out who they are, who they, who they want to be, you know, as we start to enter into college, that independence from parents, helping them navigate that transition. Um, and yeah, just figuring out like, you know, what, like, who am I as a my own entity in this world, right, um, is, is really cool. I love that.

Yeah, I know you, you said earlier it sounds like you and Amanda maybe want to explore some stuff, and you had listened to the podcast with Dr. Corrin— I can never say Corrin, sorry, I can say her last name, I never say it correctly.

Corrin Kerns. Corrin Kerns.

Corrin Kerns.

I—

is there like, if you were thinking about your work in RT Is there like, I don't know, a specific area that you're like, I want to see, I want to take RT and I really want to explore this work with this age group? Like, is there any aspect of the RT model that you're like, this is what I want to do?

Absolutely. I, I think one of the coolest things about RT is the way in which it incorporates attachment and secure attachment into the theory. And something that I do with a lot of my clients is I, when I work with kids, I see, I do parenting sessions alongside the individual therapy with kids because, um, my goal is to basically keep kids from developing the, their pain cycles before they're even, you know, before they're even starting to, to, to form, right? So how can we get to this place, you know, He talks about— Terry talks about, like, the two questions that we kind of are helping people ask is, like, who am I and am I safe, right? Like, and I always tell my clients, my parents I'm working with, if your child knows that they're loved and they're safe, you're doing— you're, you're, like, on the right path. Like, you are winning. And so I think, um, helping parents understand how to send, give their children those messages is, uh, really, really important in helping them form, um, these secure attachments, these good understandings of themselves and their understanding of how they want to be in the world.

Yeah, I like how you take time even with what you're— to even talk about, okay, so how do we do that? And you can't even like name like here, do this. Yeah, do you want to mention that?

Yes. Yeah, yeah. So one thing that, um, I talk a lot— like, the number one thing that I bring, um, to all my sessions with my parents, like, the number one thing I've asked them is like, are you doing quality time with your kids? Are you having one-on-one time with your child, not the other sibling present? We're talking— and it's not even like a long period of time. For, for younger, below age 10, it's like 5 to 10 minutes. For older kids, it's, um, that's daily. And then for older kids, it's like 15 to 20 minutes, um, 3 times a week. And we're talking about just being fully present and, um, in, in tune with, with them. And, um, you know, when you're doing this, being really intentional and you're in time with them, so you're imitating what they're doing. As they're playing. You're providing specific praise. Hey, I noticed that you made that car go so fast. Wow, that, you know, we're letting them know I am fully present with you. I am impressed with you. I am engaged with you. Um, you know, and we try to avoid asking too many questions or giving commands during, during that, which can be—

that makes such a mess.

The quality time's no longer No longer. And when we start to bring those things, right, it's no longer me being fully present.

And this is true with our relationships with our spouses, right? We know that we need to be bringing positivity and love. And it's the same thing with our kids. We need to be bringing— avoiding commanding or questioning, um, them and just allowing them to lead and express their emotions and express their feelings freely to you. I get so many parents saying like, my kid doesn't talk to me, you know, like, I— they won't tell me what they're feeling. And I think it's because we get so anxious as parents to know, and we start asking all these questions. What are you feeling? What do you think about this? What— how was your day at school? How is this—

you know, the kids like, oh, it's like an interrogation.

Absolutely.

Yeah, say more now.

Yeah.

And so when we say like, oh, like, let's play a game together, that creates this free space for them during the game that all of a sudden they'll start popping out things that maybe, you know, happen during the day, emotions that they're feeling, what they're experiencing. It's incredibly powerful. Um, you know, it's a lot of—

honestly, it's a lot of what we do as therapists, right, when we work with kids, is kind of we sit with them, we play some games, and then we start to unravel what's going on as they become more calm and centered with us, right?

And yeah, yeah, I like I like that. I think just having the language with the parent to say, here's what love and trust means in a relationship, especially a parenting relationship, and here's some things you do, you can do to promote that, I think is really empowering. You know, even in some of my marriage workshops, or when I've talked, I just talked about the idea of promoting love and trust in your relationship. And And I guess what I love about RT is, you know, you— now we have this language of love and trust, this identity safety, and here are some practical steps. And I think, you know, as you say, you work with a lot of parents. I'm like, this stuff isn't always obvious to us as parents, you know?

Yeah.

I mean, we kind of know in hindsight. If someone were to sit us down and talk about it, we might be like, of course. But to have the language that kind of drives the behavior and gives us that mindfulness around it, I— that's really powerful. I think it's cool that you're able to do that. Do parents seem pretty responsive for the most part when you sit down and talk about that?

Sometimes I like, sometimes I like, sometimes they're like, like, I'll say this, once they start doing it, the feedback I get is like, things improve almost universally, no matter what the kid's bringing in, like whatever they were coming in for, it does tend to get better. But I think, um, I'll sometimes get a couple different responses. Like, one thing I'll get is like, "Oh, we're already doing quality time all the time with our kids." And I'll start to kind of question them about it, but it's like these big events, right? They feel like they need to like take their kid to the mall and go shopping or take them skiing, and then the kid's like melting down and it's this whole event and you're not really engaging with them and just being present with them. And when I talk to kids about Or at least for me, when I think about my childhood, what's my memories with my dad, I think about every night he'd play Kings in the Corner with me, which is just like a card game. And we would have these conversations, and he'd teach me things, and he'd show me how to get better at the game and just be engaged with me. That's what I remember more than these big events where he took me this place or that place a lot of the time. So I think I get pushback sometimes like, why am I doing that? And I'm like, we're talking about daily 15 minutes really engaged. Like that is where it's that daily, that predictability, that trustworthiness. Every day I'm going to have time with you or 3 times a week, I guess, sometimes with the older kids, I'm going to have time with you that's going to allow—

I don't know if you can hear my little one up there.

How are you doing? Are you in your pain cycle?

I think it's nap time, so he's resisting nap a little.

Oh man, I feel like he's asking for a little quality time right now. Honestly, I would love a little book reading.

This is what I love about the podcast. There's something going on with one of us usually, and often like Lance's dog is like knocking at the door and Lance has to go let him in.

She already did.

Yeah, it's like, uh, Lance is usually watching Super Kitties with his dog and Julia during the day, during the week, right, Lance? It's quality time, man.

It's super— we actually watched Super Kitties this morning. It was a really good episode, um, very encouraging. Um, but I really like what you're bringing up with this whole case. I mean, did you guys ever read Power of Showing Up by Daniel Siegel and, uh, Tina Payne Price? Yeah, it's such a great book. A lot of the principles—

the Whole Brain Child, for reference.

Yeah.

Okay, okay.

Um, and in the book, you know, their whole thing— first off, it's such a great book to read, like, to recommend to clients, because, uh, it first talks about helping you to understand your own, like, stuff, you know, which was exactly what Terry and Sharon would say, like, hey guys, what's the pain cycle you're bringing into the room with your kids, you know? And so they talk about attachment in the beginning, um, and it's really nice because they actually like lower the bar like on this like journey of perfection, right? And they're like, no, it's, you know, it's more about how do we repair, you know? I think they had like 4 S's they talk about. It's like safe, secure, seen, and Safe, secure, and soothed. So they hit these 4 S's on how to do these things with your kids. Um, but I found it to be really helpful, like, with how I'm raising Julia, um, and, and how I encourage my clients on how to connect with their kids. Uh, so I, I would definitely recommend it. And I think you're hitting a lot of those points that he talks about. And he's like, you know, you only have to hit 1 in 4 right?

Yeah.

Like, if you get 1 in 4 right, you know, your, your kid might— there's a higher chance of security built up in them. Like, really, it's like baseball. It's not, it's not like, uh, you know, um, you know, it's not— we're not playing a game of, uh, trying to think of high-stakes games where you have to get it right, right away.

Yeah, yeah. I, um, I know, I remember One thing that I've always had like emphasized to me is this idea of like, it's not about being a perfect parent, it's about being good enough, right? Showing up as much as you can. And I know Terry talks about, um, like show— like when he talks about the predictability and consistency, it's like 85 to 90% of the time is like when we want to be predictable and have successful relationships. And so, yeah, um, knowing that, yeah, like sometimes there's probably going to be a day where like you don't do the quality time. Like, there might be something that will come up and it just won't happen. But trying as much as possible to show up and be there and be, like you said, be in a calm place, right, where you can, like, not be in your pain. I mean, that's a huge part of it, of this, right, when you show up for them.

Because sometimes when you're doing this stuff, they'll throw things out or things will happen, and you'll want to start correcting and saying, no, don't do that, stop, what are you doing? You know, like, they'll you know, start acting bizarre, you know, just doing things that kids do.

And we have to, um, look at ourselves and be like, do I need to be saying no right now to this, to what's happening? Or is it okay for them just to allow them to freely express? Maybe they are needing to express something that's going, going on for them right now, and I'm gonna give them that space to do it.

It's such a long-term game too, you know, like I was saying you earlier, my daughter's 18, freshman in college. And, you know, obviously I'm not a perfect parent, my wife's not a perfect parent. She's better than me, but she's not perfect. We're not— now we're not perfect. But I think the consistency over all the years of like being there at bedtime, playing games, doing prayers, like, it's, it's not that everything is magical all of a sudden. They're— it's like, it's, it's— but you do that because also then at 18, all of a sudden they give you a call one night to talk about what's going on in their life. Yeah, you know, and if you didn't do that for 18 years, it may have not felt safe to do that. And I think sometimes parents, we as parents, you know, we want to be affirmed pretty quickly in all the things that we're doing, but this is really like generational stuff that we're working on.

Absolutely. And, and oh, that's so sweet just to like hear that she's, yeah, she's giving you those calls. And I think, I think sometimes when you're struggling, right, when things aren't like, we look through, like you said, it's a long-term game. And when things are hard, sometimes I'll find my parents are like, it's harder for them to do this quality time, right? Because the kids, when your kid is really struggling and they're, you know, like, I don't wanna be around you, Mom. Like, I don't wanna do, you know, I don't wanna do this. It's hard to be like—

Dad, leave me alone.

Yeah, it's hard to keep like putting yourself out there.

And so I always say, you know, meet them where they're at. Like if your kid is into video games, as long as it's not like a super competitive video game, even if you hate video games, sit with them. During that time, do what they're interested in. And I— and, and don't use it as a punishment, right? Like, even if they've had like a really rough day and you're just like, I'm this kid, I'm like, I'm having such a hard time just like regulating myself right now, you still need to— that's like when they need it the most, when they need us to show up the most is when they're struggling, right? Because we're providing that trustworthiness, we're providing that like, I love you no matter what. Um, we're providing that, that safe space for them so they know no matter what happens, like, Mom and Dad are gonna be here for me and love me and care for me.

But it is, it's a, it's a long-term— 18 years is a long, is a long time, right? So, uh, it's also a short time. I feel like it's flying by already for me.

Yeah, yeah, the days are long, the years are short.

Yeah. And it's not that— I mean, you know, I just, I guess my point is you just, you consistently show up because you never know when a person. And I— this is where RT is really helpful for me also. And Lance can probably say more to this because he does Level 1 training, but in RT, you know, this idea of like fairness, you know, in relationships— we, we're as parents, we're giving to our kids in a way that we don't expect from them to give to us.

Yeah.

And we just show up. But I think some models, some theories It's like there's this co-regulation. If my kids are affirming me and I'm on the right track, I'm going to keep doing this work. But Lance, how would you, how would you explain that in Level 1? Like, what are you saying?

Yeah, I mean, I think this is such a beautiful part of the model that, um, that I think a lot of us, a lot, we see it a lot in today's society, is that, um, uh, it is not our children's responsibility to regulate us. And, and, um, it is the one relationship— there's no other relationship, no other— where we give and we do not take. There is no take in the parent, the parent-to-child relationship. It is 100% give with the hope that, um, what they take from you, that will be given to the next generation. Um, and it's, it's— I mean, it doesn't mean that we don't have correction and all that. Like, there is a, a raising with consequences and the like, but there is not this element. And I think this is where, you know, we, we see so many other models, like, when it comes to parenting, like, get it really messy where, like, don't you see why Mommy's so angry? Because Mommy was struggling with this, and that's why Mommy got upset with you. And, and then it puts this, like, huge load um, on the child to have to parentify, um, their parent. Uh, so that, that'd probably be one of the biggest things, um, that when it comes to that ledger, that it is 100% give. When you have a child, um, when we had Julia, um, it was like, all right, baby, I have this big collection, right, of things that have been passed down to me by my folks. Um, and, you know, my parents weren't perfect. They, they were damn good, but like, there were things that my parents didn't have. And so I'm grasping in the air for, for some of this stuff. Um, but there's a hope that each generation would get better. Um, and I think that, that is the hope that we, that we give, um, to, to our, to our families, um, as we kind of grow them up. So, um, I like your story on video games though. My daughter and Jennifer play video games, and I find it so hilarious. Like, they play this Lego video game.

Oh yeah.

And they're like— I mean, I, I don't play it just because I, I just have to watch them while they're playing. It's more entertaining to me because they're just laughing like out loud, you know, whatever character got blown up or whatever happened. And you're just like— or they're working on the quest together, so they have to like, okay, come over here, come over here. Now, you know, it's so, you know, to play— watching them play video games together is super cute.

Wait, what's the story? I don't know the story of LEGO. No, the video games. You said I like the story of video games.

Oh, Laura was talking about like, if you— like, if your kids are playing video games, play with them.

Oh yeah, okay. I thought there was like some story from a therapy session that I totally missed out on. Oh man. This happened, this happened. Yeah, engage them in what they're doing.

That's like a great— like, and I, I feel like my daughter, like, and I'm like dying laughing and giving, you know, watching them too. But, um, you know, it's— I think it's like such a bonding thing that they're doing together. They're sitting right next to each other playing. Um, it's so cute.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I mean, like, her taking that time to slow down and show interest in what your daughter is interested in, even if it sounds your wife enjoys it, which is like a win.

But yeah, even if you don't enjoy it, she's a big gamer. Oh, it's LEGO, LEGO. I think we played LEGO Star Wars growing up, and I remember really enjoying that.

Um, but I think like sitting with your kids and meeting them where they're at, what they're into, even if it's not what you love, do it for that time because it lets them know like it's that sacrifice, right, of the self, right, where This isn't— you might need to be doing the dishes, you might need to be like, you feel like you need to be doing, you know, I think as parents we get so wrapped up in all the different things that we need to be doing, and like, you just need to show up for your kid for that, for that time. That's okay, you know, to just be there, enjoy what they enjoy, let them know you care about what they care about. It's powerful.

Yeah. One parenting hack that, um, Stephanie taught me though, which I think is a beautiful hack, is get your kids into enjoying doing household chores.

It doesn't qualify as quality time, sir.

No, it does, it does. The way Stephanie does it, it's quality time. Putting the dishes away, like, oh, let's do this, you know, let's put those dishes away, yeehaw, clean our room, yeehaw.

I'm gonna take a, a left turn here, and I— because I want to ask ask the interest in Spanish and why you minored in Spanish at UW and if you use that regularly in your practice.

Yes, so, um, I did some mission work when I was in, um, high school, and actually prior to that I was really like— I've always been a very good student, and I remember I did really poorly in Spanish. Like, I like—

and it was really—

it's really ironic I did not do well in And then when I went on these mission trips and I learned that speaking another language could really help me like connect with other people and other cultures, and I learned to just like, I loved, I loved the culture that I was immersed in. I went to Chile and I was like, wow, this is, this is amazing. I am able to use this language to connect with people. All of a sudden, the language, there was a purpose behind learning the language and And so then I really was like, I think this is— I just felt called into, into working with Spanish-speaking communities. I felt like this was a place that I really enjoyed being a part of. And so yeah, I used to see like 70% probably Spanish-speaking clients.

Wow.

Now it's less than that. Now I don't see as many just based on the, the where I'm located at, I think, because I was in, uh, just the neighborhoods I was working in were really, uh, there's a lot of people, Spanish-speaking people in those neighborhoods. And now the one that I'm in is not as much, but, um, I still do have some, and I, I love it. I love it.

I love it.

It's, um, that's cool.

Yeah, practice like throughout the week.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

Yeah, practice throughout the week. And it's, it's, it's important though. I was like, I'm always trying to stay on top of it because I don't want to— I want to be able to really hear people and understand what they're saying in your sessions. It is. It's funny, I'm very fluent in like therapy-related things, but then one time my husband wanted me to like order a pizza And I like was like, I—

pepperoni—

I don't know how to say pepperoni in Spanish.

Pepperoni.

Oh, so restoration therapy in Spanish is—

I mean, like, terapia de restauración.

Okay, that's what I was looking for.

If you were— yeah, if you were to do like, uh, like, you need to do restoration there. If you were like to talk to a client, they're like onboarding, they're like, you know, um, yo quiero restoration there, or what is restoration therapy? Yes, yes, yes, yes, restoration therapy. Like, how would you respond to them in Spanish?

This is—

this—

we'll see if this airs.

Oh my gosh, I'm like, pink pillows.

Ayuda a personas a descubrir sus ciclos de comunicación con sus parejas. Hay ciclos con nuestras parejas a veces que tienen que cambiar.

Yeah, that would probably be what I would say.

That's good. Give me more.

More. I'm like, I'm putting a little spot here, man.

No, this is I, you know, the reason 71 episodes in, and, you know, obviously before the podcast and outside the podcast, it's cool meeting all the different people in the community of RT who are using their unique gifts, um, and just qualities and character characteristics in the work that they do professionally and personally. And so it's cool that we have someone like you up in Washington doing the work, doing, do, doing, doing bilingual Therapy work is all, you know, working with kids. I'm excited to hear what you and Amanda are going to be up to. Yeah, she's got a lot of like energy too, and I could see you too. Like, she made this— she came Saturday morning with a pan of sourdough like cinnamon bread that she made. It had like some kind of brown sugar or cinnamon on it.

It was nice.

So anyways, you guys are going to I'm excited to see what you guys are up to.

Nice.

No pressure.

I mean, yeah, we'll see. I like— we haven't had our meet— we haven't, uh, we, we haven't been able to schedule something quite yet, so we'll see. But I'm excited too.

She's amazing.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, Laura, you know, we're kind of closing it out here. Uh, any other big thoughts for you on things you'd want to share to our RT Dialog crew as we're having our finishing moments here.

No, I, I like, uh, I'm so thankful that I got to be on here today and talk about Restoration Therapy and the impact that it's had on me. And yeah, definitely do— if you're thinking about doing Level 2 training, um, I would say do it. Uh, it's a, um, it's, it's a big step in a journey towards becoming a, a better therapist, I think. And And I don't think you'll regret it at all. And it's a great way to get more involved in the RT community. So highly encourage it.

And you're coming to the summit in March, right?

We'll see. I have to say, when is it?

Is it March? It's in March.

That's—

Wait, I forgot the dates. What are they, Rhett? Do you know them?

Thursday, March 4th, Friday, March 5th.

That's right.

Maybe the night of the 3rd, a loose gathering of people who are in town. It's on Pepperdine's campus. Campus looking out the ocean. It's gonna be awesome.

Oh, that sounds amazing. Okay, I will, I, I will do my best to be there for sure, for sure, for sure.

Yeah, come on, you Pacific Northwest people, just, just hop down the coast right there.

Not far, not far.

Yeah, Pepperdine's awesome.

I love that, I love that campus.

Awesome.

Well, everyone listening, you know the drill. We'll have, um, if you see me taking notes over here, that's what I'm doing. I, uh, we'll have all the show notes up a link to Laura's website, books we've talked about, things like that.

And if you want to be in touch with her, um, yeah, what's your email address, Laura? If you people— or how do you want people to contact you?

Yeah, what's— can I put your email address in the show notes if people want to reach out?

For sure, absolutely. Yeah, laura@newhopetherapypllc.com.

So there you go. I'll send it over to you You.

Yeah. All right, we need some hope.

Bless you, man. Amen. We all need hope.

Thanks for being on. Appreciate it.

Cheers.