Sex, Coffee & Chocolate While Pregnant, Babies On Airplanes, Eating Placentas & More: The Mama Natural Week-by-Week Guide to Pregnancy and Childbirth

Well, this is a quite fitting podcast episode because I just walked in from my barn in the backyard, where my little goats, toffee and caramel, each just had triplet little babies. That's right. And I am going to eat the placenta. No, I'm just kidding. I'm not gonna do that. I might. I might maybe centrifuge it and inject it, but either way, whatever I decide to do with that darn placenta, it's pretty relevant to today's show because in today's show, I interview a woman who wrote a book about sex, coffee, and chocolate while pregnant, and babies on airplanes, and yes, even eating placentas and much more. She's called the Mama Natural. You're gonna dig this episode. Whether you have kids or you don't have kids, you wanna have babies, or you don't know how to have babies, or you wonder where babies come from, anything like that, you will love today's show. In this episode of the Ben Greenfield.

Fitness show, they swab mom and they place that flu the baby's mouth, or they will even put it on the mom's nipples for breastfeeding. And this helps to populate the baby's gut. It helps to inform their immune system. It helps with that establishment and the strengthening of their microbiome. There's conflicting evidence. There's lots of different voices out there, but there have been two studies that have linked high EMF exposure. One showed that the babies that were born had higher rates of asthma. There was another one that showed higher rates of miscarriage. Okay, and this, again, was women that were exposed to high levels of emf.

He's an expert in human performance and nutrition, America's top personal trainer, and one of the globe's most influential people in health and fitness. His show provides you with everything you need to optimize physical and mental performance. He is Ben Greenfield. Power, speed, mobility, balance, whatever it is for you, that's the natural movement. Get out there. When you look at all the studies done, studies that have shown the greatest efficacy, all the information you need in one place, right here, right now on the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast. Hey, folks, it's Ben Greenfield. And lately, I've had a keen interest in all things babies and childbirth all let your own imagination go absolutely wild about why that might be. But in the midst of researching childbirth and how to have a baby the right way, not only have I found myself giving advice to plenty of friends who have approached me about more than just, say, muscle building or fat loss or jumping over a fire, during a Spartan race, but also about things like raising, as I've said in the past, a tiny superhuman. I of course have twin boys. They're nine years old, and my wife and I had Perhaps we'll fill you in on today's show. Quite the adventure giving birth to those little fellas. But my guest on today's show is a much, much bigger wealth of knowledge than I am. I actually just finished her tome, I suppose it could be called On Natural Pregnancy and Childbirth. It's called the Mama Natural Week by Week Guide to Pregnancy and Childbirth. I happen to be on vacation with my kids and my wife in Seaside, Oregon, so spent the hour drive down going through her absolutely excellent book that I now think just about every or really every expecting parent, especially mother, should read and should own because it's chock full of things that I never had heard of before and things I'd never considered before. Everything from the accuracy of home pregnancy tests to the best natural remedies for morning sickness to flying when you're pregnant and how to mitigate the issues with smart technology and radiation with babies, you know, having sex while pregnant. The best stretches and moves, even things like eating placentas and gentle cesarean sections and all sorts of things I hadn't really considered before when it comes to babies and when it comes to childbirth. So the author of this book is a woman named Genevieve Howland. And Genevieve not only has tens of millions, literally over 60 million views on her YouTube channel, which is both hilarious and informational when it comes to natural pregnancy and parenting, but she herself was at one time a self described cigarette smoking junk food junkie, a sugar addict, overweight with her health in tatters. And she discovered the healing power of real food and natural living and eventually gave birth to her two kids in a birth center with a midwife and a doula. And now she's all over the place. She's been featured on Dr. Oz, ABC News, the Daily Mail, and her and her husband Michael run a natural pregnancy blog and a YouTube channel. So I'm going to give you a link to her YouTube channel, to her book and all her resources if you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com mamanatural but long story short is that just about every pregnancy guidebook out there is conventional, it's fear based or it's written, no offense guys, by male physicians who are pretty deeply entrenched in the medical model of birth. And this book is far, far different. So I'm stoked about today's conversation. Welcome to the Show Genevie.

Thank you so much, Ben. I am so excited to be here.

Yeah. And as we were talking about before the show, we're both kind of out of our elements. So here's my scenario and then you describe yours. I am in the Seaside, Oregon Public Library where I had called early to rent a little private room that I could do recordings in, as is my M.O. occasionally when I travel. It turned out the room was full because they are. They're tutoring delinquent children, whatever that means. And so I'm out here basically amongst the aisles of the bookshelves trying to avoid any dirty looks from people who are trying to study. And I'm also with my portable microphone setup, which much to my chagrin, is echoing extremely loud in my ear. So every time that you, the listener, are hearing me talk, I'm getting that echo back to me about 10 times over. However, I'm going to remain lucid. I've got my Pellegrino sparkling water, I've got my Stevia and that's all I need to rock and roll, baby. Genevieve, know you're out of your element too, were you?

Yes, we are actually up north. We're in Chicago and I'm at my parents house. I'm up in my dad's office, like hidden away. We were in like total lockdown downstairs because the kids are just about to come in. I like unplugged all the phones because I just don't want any interruptions. But yeah, I mean, my head is like three inches from the wireless router. It's hot as hell up here. I'm like, okay, let's do this. But I think it'll be okay. I think we'll be able to get.

Through this same story. That's why I'm here. We're literally sharing a three bedroom house with four families. Each family has an average of about, I think three and a half, four kids. I've lost count, but it's a madhouse over there. Last night I slept on a futon, literally surrounded by children. So earplugs were a necessity. But it is fun. And that's what we're here to talk about. Right? So there's so many things in your book that I had a hard time When I was driving down to Oregon yesterday, figure out the main questions that I wanted to ask you. But before I even jump into my first question and I'm going to try and kind of go chronologically through some of the more intriguing sections of pregnancy that you talk about in the book, tell me about your own. Your own detox from being like. I mentioned what you describe as a cigarette smoking, junk food junkie to a mom. And not just a mom, but a mom who gave birth in a very natural way.

Yeah, I mean, it's pretty amazing where I've come from. So. Yeah, I mean, when I. It started like in the end of high school where I just. For me, it's like sugar is like a drug. It's kind of like an alcoholic with, you know, alcohol. So, you know, while some people can have like a cookie or two, I want to have like the whole package. And I just started binge eating. And at that time, there wasn't a lot of people talking about it. It was either you were anorexic or you were bulimic, but no one just ate food, just let it sit, sit inside of themselves and like, you know, just gain weight and more and more weight. And so it was also very lonely because I felt like there wasn't a lot of people I could talk about my issue. And it really was a coping mechanism, you know what I mean? And to kind of deal with life and emotions and all that kind of stuff and growing up and things like that. So, yeah, so I went to college. I gained like the freshman 40. College was an absolute nightmare because it's like you have this little past, you can go into the cafeteria anytime, and it's just like a smorgasbord of like carbs and sugar. And finally, by God's grace, I think it was the end of 1998 where I literally was in my biggest pants. I couldn't even button them. I was binging all day. I tell people I had my last supper, which was a McDonald's super sized meal. And I was like, I cannot do this anymore. I just kind of finally hit a bottom. And I did realize about a year earlier that sugar was my trigger. And I had little periods where I would give up sugar. And then like after a while, the cravings would go away. But then eventually, like, something would happen. I would just like, go back to that crutch. So anyway, on this, it was a New Year's Eve, actually 1998, in my largest pants, like at home, all my friends are going out and I'm just like, I cannot do this anymore. I'm like literally killing myself. And I was like 60 pounds overweight and home with like the dog. And so I was like, I will take do anything not to eat like this anymore. So I just started like one day at a time, just, you know, I cut out the sugar. I went to the nutritionist. I got a food plan. I was like, what should I eat? You know, And I started going to different support groups, and I saw a little therapy and just got to more of the root of why I was eating. And, you know, the thing that's pretty incredible is, like, once you kind of make that decision and it's like a really deep soul decision, then, you know, before I knew it, I had, like, a month of no sugar, and then three months, and then six months and then a year and then five years, and it just becomes a lifestyle. Just how, like, overeating and the sugar and all that was a lifestyle, this new way became my lifestyle. And so still to this day, I mean, it's been 18 years, I still have not consumed, like, white sugar. Through the years. I've been able to add back in, like, raw honey or a little maple syrup, but I still don't even do those too much. But as long as I stay away from sugar, then it's totally fine. And then it was a whole journey of learning about real food and good nutrition and balance and how to just eat well. But it really started with just giving up the sugar, and then the weight just flew off.

How old are your kids now?

My son is six and a half. My daughter's three and a half.

Okay, cool. So you were able to defy the notorious Coca Cola and sugar cravings even through pregnancy?

Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. I mean, the thing is, once you get balanced and once you. You know, it had been so many years that I had not consumed sugar that by the time I got pregnant, I mean, literally it had been over, like, 10 years by the time I got pregnant that I had been free of, you know, the junk. And I also gave up other things, like caffeine and nicotine, dabble with smoking and stuff, and, like, would use it as a crutch. I would used to use it to try to, like, diet, you know, and, like, lose weight. So I gave up the nicotine, I gave up the caffeine, the nutrisweet, like, all the junk. And once, like, you clean yourself out, then, I don't know, you just don't have the same type of cravings. And so, yeah, my pregnancies, I really. I craved healthy foods. And we'll talk more about cravings and stuff later. But, yeah, it was pretty miraculous. So each day I'm, like, just so grateful not to be in that place and feel free.

What about. And here we go. We're going to delve into the science right now, what about chocolate? Because I've seen some evidence that chocolate can actually do things. Things like improve placental function or decrease the risk of preeclampsia and that type of thing. Like, what is your thought on chocolate while pregnant? And beware, you could create a lot of enemies based on your answer here.

I know, I know. So chocolate is an amazing food in the sense of the antioxidants, and it's got good fats and it's delicious. And there's actually was a small study done that showed that women who were pregnant who consumed chocolate had happier babies and just felt happier about motherhood and just were less stressed. And so researchers don't really know if it's just like, because, you know, chocolate does have endorphins and it feels so great and it's so delicious. So they don't know whether it was really their perspective of their child or whether their child truly was a happier, less colicky baby. But either way, there has been some science to back up the benefits of chocolate when you're pregnant. And, you know, most chocolate is pretty, you know, low in caffeine, but you do want to be aware of that, you know, so you don't want to be like, pounding down, you know, I don't know, just like 100% cacao, you know, chocolate bars all day long. But definitely to enjoy an ounce or two of chocolate when you're pregnant.

Yeah. And I actually, I had an interview with this guy who, who was a proponent of coffee, a big proponent of coffee. He's. He's the brother of. I'm blanking on his name now. He went into how philosopher Voltair would drink like 63 cups of coffee per day.

Oh, my gosh.

Now I'll hunt down his name and put a link to this in the show notes. He's the brother of a very famous guy. It's not the. I don't know why the Dalai Lama is jumping. Not the Dalai Lama, another guy who's quite well known in the natural medicine industry. And I'll hunt down his name for you here in just a moment. But anyways, when we were talking, he said that you could get away when pregnant with. With coffee as long as you were drinking about under 200. Oh, Deepak Chopra's brother. That's right, Deepak Chopra. Not to be confused. Dalai Lama. Anyways, though, so he claimed that women actually could consume coffee while pregnant as long as they kept it under 200 milligrams. What is the latest on coffee, caffeine and Pregnancy when it comes to that.

Yeah, I think 200 is a good number. Some studies showed 300, some showed maybe even 150. But I think basically the general consensus is 200 is a very. You know, it's still conservative, but it's a safe limit for moms. So many women consume coffee while they're pregnant. Many women are fine. It is interesting that some women who love coffee, as soon as they hit that first trimester, they have an aversion to it, you know, and that is the wisdom of the body and trusting that. So a lot of women naturally will cut back. They're just not as interested in it. They might have a weak cup or something like that. But yeah, I mean, generally speaking, coffee can be safe. Caffeine can be safe. 200 milligrams. In my research, that was kind of the safe threshold.

Okay, got it. Now, the other thing that I think should be taken into consideration with these chocolate studies is that I believe flavanol is the active component of the chocolate. And in many cases, when you see these studies on chocolate, they're literally using flavanol and not actual chocolate, interestingly enough, in some of these studies. So it should all be taken with a grain of salt or a grain of flavanol in this case. But regarding eating in general. Right. So we know that some amount of chocolate can be healthy, and we know that up to 200 milligrams of caffeine is probably okay and you don't have to completely forego coffee. But what about calories in general? And I know you get into this in the book a little bit, like, do new moms really need to be eating for two? Or is there like some more precise way to figure out how many calories you should be eating? You know what? Like, do you just let yourself eat ad libitum to appetite, keeping your fingers crossed that you're gonna grow a healthy baby and not get diabetes? Do you. Do you have to, like, count your calories? Like, what's the best way to figure out calorie count when you're pregnant?

Yeah, so that's a great question. So, first of all, when I hear like, eat for two, kind of, my skin crawls because that's such an old school term, but we still hear it all the time. And. And really, I mean, if you are a woman that's eating, you know, 18 to 2,000 calories a day, you know, you don't wanna be eating 4,000 calories a day. That's hard to do. And it wouldn't be good unless you're like, you know, professional athlete or something like that. So the whole eat for two. I think what is a better way of framing it is eat in consideration of two. You know, now you have this child growing inside of you, you want to be making good choices, nutrient dense choices, to the best of your ability. I mean, in that first trimester, it can be tough if you're not feeling well. You know, carbs are really good. You know, they taste really good and they help sometimes with that, like acid stomach and stuff. So you just do as best as you can. And that's why your, you know, pre pregnancy diet's important. And then usually by the second and third trimesters, you're feeling better and just really focusing on good nutrition. Then in terms of calories, the general recommendation is like in the second trimester, 300 calories more, and then in the third trimester, 500 calories more. But I find women naturally gravitate. I mean, they naturally will eat more and they don't really have to get into counting the calories. You know, they'll be checking in with their doctor or their midwife. And if their weight is like out of line in terms of either too much or too little, they can make tweaks. But it is really incredible that when you become pregnant, the body's wisdom can really take over. And I really believe like in the, in the validity of a woman's cravings. Now if she's craving, like, you know, I don't know, Lucky Charms or Twinkies, then I don't trust the woman cravings. But if she's craving, you know, red meat or salads or pumpkin seeds or whatever it is, go with it, you know, and just embrace it. For me, like my second pregnancy, I am not a milk drinker. I never have been. I just don't like the way it tastes. And all of a sudden, in my first trimester, I was craving milk. I drink a quart of milk a day. Now. This is actually a recommendation from the Weston A. Price Foundation. I remember seeing that and be like, that is crazy. Like, who would drink that much milk? And there I was drinking a quart of milk a day. But as soon as the first trimester passed, I never had another craving. I never drank it again. So anyway, I like women to follow their cravings as long as they're relatively, you know, they're real food and it can be nourishing because I think again, our bodies are so intelligent and they can guide a mom and what she really Needs.

Now, one thing that you mentioned there, and that's great advice you said, by the way, how many hundred calories in the first versus the third, third trimester?

So now, first trimester, they generally say, like, you don't really need more calories. The baby, you know, is so small. It's, you know. But again, like in my first trimesters, I probably did eat more, at least with my first pregnancy. And so again, like, don't get too worried about it. And some of it is like a faith walk. I mean, it is amazing how the body takes care of itself. I remember, you know, I got into my third trimester and I had gained like 30 something pounds. I'm thinking, oh my gosh, like, I'm going to be like at 45 pounds, you know, I was just getting concerned and it was like the last six weeks, I don't think I gained one pound. And the midwife's like, that's totally normal. It can definitely happen. You're losing amniotic fluid, you know, it's totally fine. So she wasn't concerned. But it totally worked out. I gained like 35 pounds, which was good for my frame and everything like that. And it's good. So there is almost like your body kind of balances out usually. I mean, sometimes that doesn't work out, but yeah. So the first trimester, no additional calories. The second trimester, 300. The third trimester, five.

And you mentioned that you were drinking milk. And I think we should bring up this idea that the, you know, the idea of the placental barrier, right, how it actually is permeable to a lot of pollutants and pesticides and PBB, you know, PCBs, BPAs, all sorts of different acronyms rolling around in my head and heavy metals. And I know that can be an issue. But when it comes to something like, I mean, milk, for example, were you concerned about that? I mean, did you select like organic milk from, you know, were you careful about whether it was pasteurized versus non pasteurized? I mean, how careful does a mom need to be when it comes to toxins like this?

Well, I think, you know, that's. I think all moms should be cautious, obviously. And it's such a personal risk reward type situation. And with these cravings, I actually had access to really fresh, really delicious and really safe raw milk. And I had been getting it for years. My son drank it, my husband drank it, you know, so I had seen, you know, and I knew their safety standards and I knew, you know, the farmers and everything. Like that. So I felt safe drinking it. You know, there's been studies that show that raw milk is actually a low risk food when it comes to contamination. However, there are always those cases where it can be contaminated. So again, a woman has to weigh the pros and cons and make that choice. To me, I felt like it, it was the cleanest, freshest, most bioavailable milk I could find. So, you know, again, no doctor or midwife is going to recommend drinking raw milk. You know, that's going to be something that would not be recommended. But I felt comfortable, you know, given the relationship and the history I had with this particular farm.

Now you, you have a whole section in your book about toxins and about how you, when you find out you're pregnant, one of the first things that you should do is like a home detox and also a body detox with like, personal care products and what you're smearing on your skin, et cetera, to ensure your body is in a toxic place for the baby or the home is in a toxic place for the baby. And I think a lot of people already know that they shouldn't necessarily be using, like, chemical cocktails to clean their home. But are there things that you think even among, like, healthy and aware moms fly under the radar are when it comes to toxins or chemicals?

I think that's a great question. I, I guess what I would say is thinking about, you know, okay, you want to try to have a baby. So like a couple months before, really start thinking about that and really start, you know, even six months before, get really intentional about your diet. You know, get really intentional about your sleep. Insomnia can hit women when they're pregnant because there's so many hormone changes and there's so much crazy change within your body, body. So if your sleep is like, totally dialed in and you're, you know, getting awesome rest and you have such, like, a good foundation, then when you get pregnant, you can kind of like ride the waves of things easier, you know, and the same thing about, like, caffeine and, you know, alcohol consumption, stuff like that. You know, some women love having like a glass or two every night before they, you know, after dinner or whatever, or they love a couple shots of espresso or whatever. So the last thing you need is like in the first trimester to be like, withdrawing, you know, and have like, caffeine headaches or whatever. So if you can start like, dialing things back and just getting in a lifestyle that's like, pregnancy friendly before you get pregnant, it's just going to make that transition really smoother and easier. And then the final thing I said, and this, to me, is like, so huge that we, you know, women are given this gift of the menstrual cycle. And in a lot of ways, it informs us about our balance and about our health and our vitality and our fertility. So if a woman, you know, ideally, we should be able to sail through each month. Like, there's a rhythm to it. You know, you will notice some mood changes or some different things, but generally speaking, it should be pretty seamless and, you know, not a big deal. So if you're someone that gets, like, really bad cramps or migraines or nausea with your period or with ovulation, or if you have, like, you know, really heavy periods or, you know, really erratic periods, you know, 20 days, 25 days, 30 days, and all over the place, that's a clue. You know, this is an, you know, this is an opportunity to get more in balance so that when you get pregnant, you just might not have as many complications. You might not have as much morning sickness. Like, all those things could just be easier.

Okay, but what about the actual toxins themselves? Like, are there toxins that, you know, when it comes to things that are particularly, you think, damaging for the baby, or things that are particularly notorious for crossing the placental barrier, or things that women should be eating even more careful with than they would be if they weren't pregnant? When it comes to avoiding, are there things that you think are big red flags that more people should know about?

Well, I would say mercury definitely is something you want to be really concerned just very much aware of, because that is a very true risk for your baby. So seafood consumption is still recommended, but just picking the right types of fishes, not eating, you know, ahi tuna and sushi and things like that, or, you know, high mercury fish. So I definitely think mercury is something that you definitely want to be aware of. I also would say just, you know, all of the, like. For example, there was a small study that showed that women that were hairdressers had higher rates of miscarriages and different complications with their pregnancies. So exposure to hairsprays, you know, any of those chemicals, you know, really intensive beauty products, things like that you want to steer clear of. So teeth whitening, you know, eyebrow extenders, conventional deodorant that goes into lymph system. So I just think, like, those things obviously are important to steer clear of, and you just generally don't want to be doing, like, A lot of detoxification when you're pregnant. So this is not a time to be doing saunas or. Or, you know, coffee enemas or just different things that are going to be flushing and dumping toxins into your system because.

Is that because they wind up in the placenta or.

Well, I mean, there's some debate about what actually crosses the barrier and stuff like that, but you just. When your body gets into a detoxification mode, it wants to cleanse, it wants to purge, and that could include, you know, your baby. So you don't want to be in a detoxification mode. You know, you can do gentle things, you know, like exercise or rebounding or some skin brushing, things like that. But it's not a time to be, like, undertaking, you know, detoxification measures.

So. So if you find out you're pregnant, basically, don't go do The Ben Greenfield Fitness 17 Ways I'm Detoxing My Body podcast.

No.

Okay, good to know. So, no, note to self, all you mothers out there, dads, it's probably okay. And actually, I know you do have a lot of. You have a lot of tips for dads for increasing sperm count and things like that in the actual book. And so guys, don't tune out. This is actually a good book for you to check out, too. But one thing probably relevant to both moms and dads and something kind of relevant to me lately, just again, opening the kimono. My wife and I actually thought we were pregnant for about two months until literally like two weeks ago, because she tested positive three times on a home pregnancy test. Not like one of the. Not one of the, you know, the HCG blood tests that you can order from a laboratory, which I think are a bit more accurate from what I understand. But it was a home pregnancy test. How common is that?

You know, that's really wild because I, you know, I have not seen that that often. However, I was looking on Amazon, like the different pregnancies tests, and I've seen this now a lot where women are like, I am heartbroken. I thought I was pregnant. This test told me I was positive. I really don't understand how this could happen. You know what I mean? Because generally speaking, we should not be producing hcg. You know what I mean? And that's what these tests are supposed to be detecting.

Your urinary hcg, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's more common that you're seeing, you know, people are getting negatives and they end up being pregnant. Do you know what I mean? That's A lot more common, so. So I'm not as familiar of what would trigger these positive tests when you weren't pregnant. I mean, did your wife, like, check it out and see what was causing that, or.

Dr. Oh, well, she wound up getting a blood test for the human chorionic gonadotropin, this hcg. And the way I understand it is when a fertilized egg attaches to the uterine lining, or when you get that implantation, you get the formation of the placenta, and the placenta starts producing hcg, and that gets into the bloodstream, it gets into the urine, so it should go up quite a bit. But what happened was she took a home pregnancy test. And, you know, I was not doing any type of HCG lotions or anything like that myself, so I don't think I could have gotten HCG on the test. And, yeah, they flagged her as pregnant for several tests in a row, and then she got the blood test and it flagged it as negative. So it's really interesting. Huh. Anyways, though, kind of a complete aside, but I would say, you know, in my own experience, it looks like perhaps for some reason, thesethese blood tests that you orderand we just ordered one from Direct Labs, you know, just like an online wholesaler lab tests, it appears to be a little bit more accurate than urine tests. You know, I wasn't sure if you would know the answer.

Definitely.

Definitelyfor you people out there, you know, who want to do the, like, the double check and make sure it looks like maybe blood could be the way to go here. And, you know, perhaps there is.

Blood is much better.

Yes, perhaps there's a doc who could pipe in in the comments section and let us know why that might be. But I found it quite interesting. Okay, so I want to move on to some practical tips. Let's start with exercise. We, of course, have some very fit moms who are listening in, and we've done podcast episodes in the past that I'll link to if you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com. you know, I've interviewed women who are crossfitting while pregnant, for example. But what's your take on exercise and pregnancy? And particularly your claims that if you exercise while pregnant, you will wind up having a smarter baby?

Yeah, yeah. I think exercise is wonderful when you're pregnant. I think, you know, some women like myself, I mean, I actually am drawn to exercise because you feel so powerless in so many ways. Your body's like being taken over, and it just feels good to move it and to just get your circulation going and it boosts your mood and your just everything. It's good for your, you know, elimination. So I am a huge believer in exercising while you're pregnant. There's very few circumstances where you should not exercise in terms of like the level of what you do. It's really, you know, what you did before you were pregnant. You can continue on to a certain level. I mean it's really. Again, as the mom is exercising, she's finding herself so severely winded and just really uncomfortable and feels lightheaded. That's a sign like, okay, this I, you know, pushed it too hard. Again, I don't think pregnancy is a time to be like trying to like beat personal bests and stuff like that, but it's definitely a time to be active and it does help the baby. There was a study done out of University of Montreal that compared moderate exercisers with those who did not pregnant women, women and the women that exercise. And this was literally like 20 minutes, three times a week. So we're not talking like a lot of movement. They found that their babies had more cerebral activation. So there was more brain activity, you know, just more going on there. So they concluded that exercise actually can, you know, help your baby's brain function.

That's interesting. I wonder if. And by the way, the photograph I've seen of that study is hilarious. It's a baby with their head covered in electrodes, like with, I assume they're doing a qeeg or something like that. It's hilarious. Looking to see this tiny little bald head covered in these electrodes. Anyways though, I'm wondering if that's because the brain derived neurotrophic factor which is like this miracle grow for the brain, if that crosses the blood or not the blood brain barrier, but the placental barrier in the similar way that toxin does not do or what exactly is happening. But it's very interesting. I would imagine that it could wind up in the breast milk as well. But yet another reason to exercise while pregnant. Now my wife did a lot of swimming. That was her go to which we found when we researched it is actually quite therapeutic for the baby. They like that movement of the water, that swaying of the water back and forth. But. And again, I will link to it in the show. Notes, notes. There is a gal out there named Cassandra Forsythe who has a website called Girls Gone Strong and she's a strength conditioning specialist, she's a registered dietitian, she's a certified sports nutritionist and she wrote a book called the New Rules of Lifting for Women. And during that podcast episode, she actually detailed her CrossFit routine that she followed while pregnant. And so. So I think you need to be careful with that, especially even if not from a stress standpoint, from a biomechanical standpoint, in terms of your SI joint, your hips, et cetera, making sure that you take good care of those. But either way you look at it, I'm a fan of swimming, she's a fan of CrossFit, you're a fan of exercise. And what I found fascinating was that you actually see an increase in child intelligence when you do that. So. Yeah, another reason to move.

Move it.

Yeah. Eat chocolate and exercise.

Yeah. And I think also like any exercise, like water is awesome because you have that buoyancy. It can help like some, there's even some like that believe it helps the baby move around in utero better. Like if a baby's breech, it can help it flip a baby, but anything too that like helps your pelvis area, like keeping it balanced, aligned, like, you know, the modern world, especially when you work in an office and you're at a desk all day, that's really not a great, great position to be in, you know what I mean? As you're growing this baby. And so if you can get things like a, you know, like an exercise ball or medicine ball or a birthing ball to sit on instead of a chair, that can really just like engage your core, engage your.

What is it? What is a birthing ball?

Well, it's basically like an ax. We call them birthing balls, but I think they're called exercise balls or medicine balls. They're like those big blow up balls that people use, like, okay, you know, to work out and then like a stability. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah. So in the birthing community, they're called birthing balls because they're really awesome to labor and to use, you know, when you're actually giving birth.

How would one use that during labor?

Well, you can like lean over them, you know, and kind of sway your hips, you know, and kind of open that. Some people just like to sit on them and do contractions just sitting on the birth ball. What else? I don't know. Some people, some people just like to kind of sit and rock back and forth, you know, kind of of in the rhythm of labor. But a lot of women like to use them when they're pregnant just because again, it kind of activates that part of their bodies in a better way than like a Chair would.

Now, I would imagine, when it comes to actual movements for preparing for pregnancy, especially when we're talking about a natural pregnancy. And I want to delve into your take and experience with a natural pregnancy here in a little bit. This idea of a yogic school. Do you know what I'm referring to? I think it's called malasana in yoga, or malasana, as a true yogi would say. This idea that you're in the same position as you'd be if you were on a squatty potty. It's a stretch. I personally do in the mornings. It helps out quite a bit with a bowel movement. Getting down in that low position, dropping your butt to the ground, feet wide, toes turned out, pushing the adductors out to either side with your elbows for childbirth. I know that that's a good stretch or move, but are there other good stretches or good moves specifically to allow one to be able to withstand the rigors of a natural childbirth? If they decide they're not just going to, pardon the expression, get the baby cut out or lay back on a table and just push with an epidural?

Yeah. Like I said, I think doing anything with the pelvis. So the. There's, like, butterflies that are really good, where you kind of put your feet together and you're, you know, your legs are out in front of you, and you kind of rock your legs back and forth. I don't know if it's hard to explain how to do the movement, but if you just Google butterflies, you'll understand, like, the movement.

Pretty common stretch.

Okay, so. And then pigeon pose. Puppy pose. Pigeon pose, to me, was, like, my favorite because it just opens up your hips in such an awesome way.

And puppy poses is also kind of like that relaxed, relaxed child pose almost, right? Inino.

Exactly. Yeah. So those are really good. Yeah. I know Katie Bowman. She's a huge movement person, and she really loves squats for, you know, pregnant moms. And so those are really good. So I think all those help. I found also. This is gonna sound really weird, but red raspberry leaf tea is an herbal tea, but it's also a uterine tonic. And I found for me, in the first pregnancy, I didn't really drink it. The second pregnancy, I was religious about drinking it, and I saw such a huge, huge. My contractions. My uterus was, like, amazing. I mean, it was. My contractions were so efficient and so strong. And my. My first birth, they were, like, kind of weak and, like, irregular and fickle and so anyway, red raspberry leaf tea has been known to be this uterine tonic. It strengthens the pelvic area, it really kind of tones those muscles. So I encourage women like once they hit their second trimester to start drinking it. And I mean, my midwife was a huge believer. She's like, this is what helped me with each of my births. And I didn't listen to her the first time, but the second time I did and it made a really good difference.

Yeah, I understand that's supposed to be pretty good for morning sickness as well, right?

Yeah, it can. There's some, yeah, some women find that because it can be like balancing, you know, for hormonal things. And there's also some good minerals that can help with morning sickness. So yeah, if you could choke it down. That's the thing. It's like there's a lot of great things for morning sickness, but some, sometimes people are so sick they can't, you know, the thought of drinking tea makes them want to go to the toilet, you know. But yes, if they can drink it, it can also be helpful. The one thing about it, and that was kind of what freaked me out my first pregnancy is it is a uterine, you know, I don't want to say stimulant, but I remember drinking it like I think I was like eight weeks pregnant or 10 weeks pregnant and I felt like some uterine cramping and it freaked me out. So. So the general rule of thumb is like if you can wait to the second trimester, it's probably, I don't know, more, it's probably safer, I guess, or there's been no studies that show that it leads to miscarriage. But I think the conservative approach would say second trimester might be better to.

Start on it and be careful again when it comes to metals because tea is one of those things. Tea and protein powder are two things that tend to be very high in metals and toxins if you're not careful. So choose your tea wisely also. So I'll try, I'll try and hunt down some metal free red raspberry leaf tea and get that into the show notes for those of you who are concerned about that. Now, when it comes to morning sickness, if you could choose one to two additional must haves or best natural remedies to have on hand for morning sickness, what would you choose?

Ah, that's so hard because there's so many different angles you could go. But I would say anything that you can do to help support digestion. I think a lot, you know, because that's where all of our symptoms come up. It's the nausea, it's the acid stomach. Stomach. It's the, you know, indigestion so supporting digestion. So sour foods I found for me with one of my pregnancies, if I. I would eat my meal, I would feel fine. And then right after I finished it, I just started to feel gross and just nauseous and just yuck. And so I would cut up a grapefruit like a little kid does, like with the orange slices, like the smiley face. And I would just eat the grapefruit after each meal. And it was like a game changer. And so grapefruits in particular, or like, I don't know if you've ever heard of the gallbladder flush or the liver flush. Like they. You drink grapefruit juice as part of this. Because it does stimulate the gallbladder. It stimulates, you know, your bile production. So any kind of sour food will really do that. So lemons or raw apple cider vinegar. There's even a Urban Moonshine created a bitter that is safe for women. So it's like, you know, form of herbal concoction.

Yes, that's perfect. That's actually an excellent digestif. It's great, by the way, in alcoholic drinks too. Sorry, pregnant ladies, you gotta be careful of that. But I've interviewed the folks from Urban Moonshine on my show before. I spoke in Vermont, and I found their product in Vermont when I was speaking there and I interviewed them on. I'll hunt down the interview and put a link to it in the show notes. But yeah, it's the folks at Urban Moonshine, they do a bitter. That's great. But you were about to say something else.

Yeah, the other thing I would just say is acupuncture. So I think it's very balancing. I go to an acupuncturist. He's amazing. And he told me the story of a woman hospitalized on fluids and IVs and different things. But anyway, she. And this happened with every pregnancy. And then she started seeing him and it's like. It was like night and day. I mean, it just really. She was able to eat again. She wasn't sick. So there is something to acupuncture, the balancing, they've shown it in studies. It can. Can help reduce nausea. The thing about it, though, you have to go pretty regularly. So if you're like in an acute situation, like a couple times a week would be great. And then as you get a little bit stabilized once a week and Then eventually you could stop. But I think acupuncture is a great tool that's safe and that can be really effective.

Yeah. And I've actually personally been experimenting a bit with electrical alternatives to acupuncture. Meaning that I interviewed people who recently developed an energy medicine device that uses a very low level pulsed electromagnetic field therapy. You hold it up against different meridian points and it acts very similarly to acupuncture. And I've done both acupuncture as well as this. And the cool thing about this is of course you don't have to get in your car and haul your butt over to an acupuncture clinic or hunt down acupuncturist and schedule. But it's, it's. The interview that I did was with a gal named Wendy Myers. It's called. Oh yeah, it's a scanner. It's a NEST Health scanner. I believe the actual device is called a MiHealth. Really interesting though. I've been playing around with it a lot as an alternative to things like acupressure or acupuncture. I don't know anyone who has used it while pregnant. But for those of you who want to listen to my. It's called a NEST health interview with Dr. Wendy Myers. We talk a little bit about energy medicine medicine and how you can target some of those same meridian points, including some of the nausea ones with basic pulsed electromagnetic filter. But granted, it's an expensive device. I think it's like a $2,000 device. But I mean, if you get a lot of acupuncture, I suppose it could add up.

Do you like, do you feel like it's helping you and like you notice a difference?

I do. I've used it for digestion and at this point also foot pain that I've gotten from racing. And I'm currently experimenting with it for low back pain. I just flew back from Bulgaria and right after I got off the plane, I raced a spartan race. And I think my sacroiliac joint was locked up after sitting for 22 hours while traveling. So I've been using it on the back with some success as well. That's technology, though. And you talk about smart technology in the book and I don't think that's something many pregnant women think about. But when it comes to smart technology, you know, phones, computers, Bluetooth, I mean, what's the evidence out there? What are the best practices when it comes to pregnancy and smart tech?

Sure. So there are, there have, you know, of course, with EMFs and all that, there's mixed opinions, there's conflicting evidence, there's lots of different voices out there. But there have been two studies that have linked high EMF exposure. One showed that the babies that were born had higher rates of asthma. There was another one that showed higher rates of miscarriage. Okay. And this again was women that were exposed to high levels of EMFs when they were pregnant. So I think it's important to take a conservative approach. I mean, it's just. There's no way about it. But we live in a very high tech world, so it can be challenging. I think whenever you talk about this, moms, sometimes you're like, don't take my iPhone or I'm not gonna live like in a cave or what's that really mean? And there's a lot of really simple things moms can do. I mean, just one simple thing, like a lot of my friends, it drives me crazy that they'll take their iPhone and they put it in their bra and I'm like, what are you doing? You know, like, don't put that, like put it on airplane mode. Okay. Like, don't carry it on your body. So simple things like that. The other thing is it's really tempting when you're pregnant. And I know this because I did this with my first child until I knew better to use your belly as like a table. You know what I mean? So you like put your laptop on it and you're like working away and the thing is like hot as can be and the fan's going off and it's. And it's just. So there are like one example, one company is called Belly Armor and they make like blankets, use even tube and you just literally like put it over your belly and it's a shielding, you know, mechanism. So belly Armor, that's a great thing to do.

I mean, interesting.

Yeah. Belly armor.

Okay. Yeah, I see you can get these on Amazon and those actually offer some amount of protection against emf. Yeah, interesting. And you know, I've used in the past, of course, because that's one of my pet peeves is when I see someone frying their gonads with their laptop in. I realize the laptop is based on the name designed for your lap, but at the same time, what I use is a device called a hara pad. It's basically a hara pad and there are other variations of this. I interviewed folks from this company called Defender Shield that makes some of these type of things, but it's an anti radiation pad. It's got different layers of tech in it that Stave off in of front, in my own experience, the propensity for one's balls to hurt. Once a laptop has been in your lap for about a half hour and you know, my wife uses one, I use one. And it's one of those things where I just don't want some of my body's relatively important organs exposed to emf. And I agree, this is all the more important for someone who has a growing human inside of them.

Yes.

So this is called Belly Armor.

Yeah, Belly Armor is one, just one company. There's other companies that create things, but I like their stuff. It's, it's, I think they make good, good quality shielding materials. The other thing to think about, and I don't know if a lot of moms think about this, but like ultrasounds and Doppler, I mean, these are forms of radiation too. So. And you know, nowadays, like, if you go to probably just a traditional obgyn, I mean, you might be getting four ultrasounds, you know, throughout your pregnancy. One in the first trimester, one the second, third, and maybe even another one at the end of the third. So they have shown in studies like ultrasounds do not improve birth outcomes. Okay. So there really isn't a lot of evidence for having ultrasounds in some way, which sounds kind of crazy, but it's true. So. But having said that, some, you know, sometimes they are medically necessary and sometimes women like to peek at their baby. They want to, you know, that experience. And that's completely understandable. But so I would always tell moms is like, okay, okay, if you want to minimize it, just get one ultrasound, wait till that mid, you know, mid pregnancy scan. And I remember my midwife told me that like, if you, you know, because some women were going in at 18 or 20 weeks and like everything they could see was fine and great, but there was like one thing that wasn't fully developed, so they have to go back in and get another one to see that one thing again. So my recommendation is always go at 22 weeks, like most midwives or doctors will be fine with the it. And you're pretty much guaranteed that all of the body parts that, you know, the doctor needs to see will be fully in bloom and you'll only have to get it done once. So that's a little tip. The other thing you can do with the Doppler is sometimes you'll go in and they'll try to like hear a heartbeat at like eight weeks or 10 weeks. And it's frankly a hit or miss situation. It's very tricky that early to hear a heartbeat. And it's just like wasted, you know, radiation exposure. So. So wait until like 12, 14 weeks, hear the baby's heartbeat because it's really, you know, there is something magical about hearing it and it makes you feel like you're not crazy and like, okay, I actually am pregnant. But then just stop and like, you don't have to do it again until like 20, 22 weeks. And then you can ask your doctor or your midwife to use the fetoscope. And this uses no electro, you know, no technology, no electronics. It's basically. Yeah, a fetoscope. So it's basically like a stethoscope, but it's designed for, you know, the womb and, you know, they can hear the heartbeat that way.

Okay, got it. What about airplanes and flying?

Well, that's interesting. There actually was a new study done. It was published in 2015. It's actually on the CDC website. But it showed that flight attendants did have double the risk of miscarriage. Okay. In this particular study, when compared to those. Yeah. That didn't have like a physical, they were considered considering being a flight attendant, a physically demanding job. Okay. So when they compare it to other people that don't have demanding jobs, they had double the risk. Okay. So some of that could be, I mean, you know, they might be at midnight flights. Their circadian rhythm could be all over the place. You know, they've got to be on their feet all day. I mean, it is, you know, a more challenging job than a desk job.

Right.

But it also is that cosmic radiation exposure. So you want to if you can. And the thing is, like, no shielding device is going to offset that like that. That's just something that, you know, it's just the nature of the beast when you fly. So Even like the FAA, I mean, they recommend to not be 12 cross continent round trip flights or seven long transcontinental flights during your pregnancy. So that was kind of their recommendation. And if you can do a lot less, that would be better, you know.

Yeah. There's even an issue article and I'll link to it if you go to the show notes@bengreenfieldfitness.com mamanaturalth there's an article that you can read for free online. It's really interesting. It's called A Darker side of Hypermobility. And it goes into not just for babies, but also for grown humans like me. The issues with being able to hop on a plane at any point and jet across the globe, not just from a circadian rhythm standpoint, but from a, from a community standpoint, from a social standpoint, from a long term health standpoint, from a gut microbiome standpoint. So, yeah, there's so many variables there that could contribute to something like a miscarriage. I agree. I don't think you could say that it would be for sure something like solar radiation. But when we gave birth to our boys, Jessa and I had this bright idea that we wanted them to be little world travelers. And we took them to Thailand and Chile and Peru and Mexico and all over the globe until we realized that not only was it not that healthy for their little circadian rhythms, but they didn't really give a crap if they were in the backyard in Washington state or in Chile. They couldn't appreciate it was expensive. And I grew more and more nervous about the health effects. And even for myself, I'm really considering beginning of next year to dial back to just traveling, for example, four times a year, to events that are only hell yes events, just because I do think that there is this dark side to hypermobility, as inconvenient as that may seem. So it's an important consideration. I'm glad you address it in the book. Now, moving on to something a little more fun than radiating yourself and miscarriages and morning sickness. What about having sex while pregnant? What are there any risks or anything like that? I mean, I know you have a whole chapter in the book on it, but tell me, tell me what your thoughts are on that and why you would even bring up a. Bring that up in an entire chapter.

Sure. Oh, I think there's a lot of misconceptions about sex and women can get fearful and I mean, it's pretty much very similar to exercise to me that with very few, few exceptions, sex is perfectly fine, perfectly healthy, and you can go on as usual, you know, so during pregnancy it's like, have fun. In fact, I mean, I know for myself, it was the only time in my life I could identify with a teenage boy. I mean, I was like, it was so awesome. Sex during pregnancy actually can be some of the best sex of your life for women, because you have more blood flow, you are more sensitive. I mean, it's just, it's really. Can be amazing. So some women actually have this kind of like sexual revolution when they're pregnant. And, you know, who would have thought, right? I mean, most people don't think of that. But you know, obviously in the first trimester you could be tired or if you're nauseous, you know, you might not be having sex as much, but the second trimester, the third trimester, I'm sure gets like interesting towards the end. Like if you get really big, I mean, with your wife having twins, I can imagine, like, you know, you have to be a little bit more inventive maybe, but have fun with it. Enjoy. The only thing we found, like in doing the research, that could be dangerous, and this is one thing you do not want to do, is you don't want anyone to blow directly into your vagina. So I don't think that happens very often, but noted, it actually can. Yeah. Yeah. So just something to think about. If your wife gets pregnant again and it's, it can cause something called an air embolism and there have been some, you know, deaths as a result. Relate related to this. So that is the only thing we found. And now again, there are some special circumstances if a woman's extremely high risk, if there's, you know, she's on extreme bed rest, things like that. But this is truly the exception, like for most women, you're totally golden.

Okay. This heard on the Ben Green fitness podcast. Do not blow into one's vagina while pregnant. That's actually good advice. Now, what about another fringe concept, this idea of post birth eating the placenta? I hear all sorts of things back and forth about the nutrient density of it. We didn't do it for various reasons, including the fact that. And perhaps I can tell this story and you can tell your birthing story. We wound up giving birth at the hospital and I don't like to eat things that were exposed to all the MRSA and staff and everything else at the hospital. But what, what's the evidence or the idea behind the concept of eating the placenta?

Yeah, so the thing about eating placenta, I mean, when I first heard it, I'm like, ugh. I just, it did not appeal to me at all. But in my community, like, so many women have raved about it and they have, you know, women that struggled with like postpartum depression with low milk supply to the point where they couldn't nurse their kids to, you know, having a harder time healing and recovering and having, having energy. Their lives are like transformed by just consuming their placenta. So it definitely like piqued my interest. I'm like, there might be something to this. I want to look into it. And there really isn't a lot of evidence. There haven't been a lot of studies. It really isn't an ancient practice. Even though I think there's this idea that it is. The placenta has been revered and it's been honored in, you know, cultures and stuff like that.

Sure. And dogs do it.

Yeah, you're right. It's just, it wasn't that common. Right. This whole idea of placenta consumption. But having said that, my take is, you know, do it. You know, get it encapsulated. Of course there's like hardcore moms that will freeze it and like shave off chunks and like put it in their smoothies and eat it that way.

I know which got blocks will encapsulate it. I believe that, that the Kardashians did it. Or at least one of them did it.

Yeah. Like, so encapsulation is like very palpable. It's very easy to get down. Do it. And then it's like the thing is so nice about it, I did it with my second birthday. And if you like it, you can take it. If you don't like it, you can stop taking it. And it gets out of your system very quickly. But it's just like a nice little insurance policy that could potentially help, you know what I mean? Because you never know how you're going to be postpartum and it's just nice to have it. And it's not something you go back, you know, this is like a medical waste. Like people, you know, at hospitals, they'll just dump it. Like you can't go back and get it. So, you know, I say it's a couple hundred dollars. From the feedback I've received. I think it's worth a shot if you're open to it and then try it. And if you like it, great. If you don't, then you can stop taking it.

Are there vitamins that are supposed to be in it? I mean, similar. Like, is it a storehouse of fat soluble vitamins or anything like that?

Yeah, yeah. I mean it has iron, it has, you know, definitely has nutrients. I mean, it is similar to an organ meat. Right. So they got the fat soluble vitamins. It also has, you know, it's hormones and different things. So like some women actually will make a tincture also of their placenta and they'll use it during menopause. So that's interesting.

Yeah, I guess for me, I would imagine that let's say it does have the same nutrient density as other organ meats do. When you look at things from a pure survivalist or conservational or zombie apocalypse standpoint, it would make sense to waste not, want not. I would just say that you would need to be careful, for example, And I know I've brought it up a few times, so I might as well tell the story now. We had several doulas. We had a midwife. We had the whole little water tub with the turtles on the COVID of it for the home water birth. And we had everything set up for a home birth. I believe we even had one of those stability balls in our little birthing room there at the house. We took the course where the husband helps the wife to breathe. I forget the name of it.

Is it Lamaze?

Yes, we took the Lamaze course. So I was there helping my wife for over 10 hours. I sustained bruises for a couple of weeks, her sharp elbows digging into my thighs as she pushed multiples with her tiny, petite little hip. She would have been that woman who would have died in the wild, wild west giving birth. And after 10 hours, like, absolutely nothing. And we kept checking the hearts over and over again, and the babies were fine, but Jessa was fading, and we were getting pretty concerned. So we wound up getting in the car, driving to the hospital, and undergoing a C section to get the twins out. And it was a nightmare at the hospital. Like, we requested that the twins stay with us and be breastfed. And I'd wake up in the middle of the night, and the nurses had taken them to the station, and they were feeding them soy milk and glucose into them, and all sorts of nasty things happen. And we eventually had to make a special request to just get out of the hospital as soon as possible so we could get the kids out of what is, in my opinion, one of the more dangerous places to be. Granted, there are times when a baby does need to be in icu, but that wasn't the case with our kids. It was more just. The idea was we had trouble getting them out, but after that, we didn't need much, much help at that point. So we were kind of one of those folks who started off with the natural childbirth and then had to wind up doing it at the hospital via C section. And, of course, you know, wewe supplemented with probiotics and colostrum and breastfed, you know, did all the things to ensure that the kids had their gut microbiota restored to the point that it would have been at had they done, like, a vaginal birth and been able to swallow a little bit of mom's fecal matter going down the birthing canal and all that jazz. But, you know, ultimately, it was a. It was a. It was a very unpleasant scenario, giving birth in the hospital. And of course, I, at that point, wouldn't have been that interested in eating the placenta, having gone through that experience.

Yeah.

For you personally, youyou gave birth to your kids naturally or did you use one of these birthing centers?

I used to birth, yeah, I was in a birthing center, so. And those are really nice because they're, know, designed just for birth. They, you're not gonna have other patients there, you know what I mean? It's just for birth. They're really cozy. They have like, you know, big queen beds and big tubs, and it's just, it's just designed for birth, you know, and midwives run them. And I'm really sorry that you guys had such a bad experience. And that's, that's what I hear from a lot of moms. And that's like my passion is just that, you know, when you walk into a hospital, you have to kind of be prepared because they will just come and like, bombard you with all these interventions and this and that. And, you know, certain hospitals are great, but other hospitals are not so great. And it's just, it's a lot of added stress for parents because they have enough on their plate with just like, dealing with their wife. And then, you know, the wife themselves, like, going through this really intense process. The last thing they're thinking about is, like, fending off people or trying to like, negotiate or, you know. So that's why I like birth centers, because it's designed just for birth. It's for, you know, low risk births. It has all of the accoutrements of home. And the thing is too, like, you know, birth is incredibly primal. It's very hormonally based. And if you get into a situation where you're afraid, where it's too shocking, it's this, it's that. I mean, your adrenaline is going to start going and literally your birth will stop. Like, your labor will stop, you know, because, you know, it's a design of survival because you're not going to give birth if, like a predator is chasing you or something. So you get into the hospital and it's the fluorescent lights and the beep beads and this, and the nurses are coming this, and it's so crazy and it's bright and it's not indicative for natural birth, right? It should be dark and quiet and safe and cozy and soft. And that's, to me, what birth centers recreate. And so now you, you have a.

Whole section in your book about how to, how to hunt down a natural birthing center and a lot more information about natural birthing centers. But let's say someone does need to have a C section. I believe you also have a. Have a section in there on an alternative form of a cesarean section I hadn't heard of before, but I think you just referred to it as like a gentle C section, I think.

Yeah, yeah. So I'm a huge believer. Like, I'm a C section baby myself. Okay. And so I was actually an elective C section baby. So your wife actually gave your sons, like, benefit. It's from just going through. Because she did go through some birth, you know, 10 hours of it. So any. Any amount of birth is beneficial for baby, you know, and so anyway, so gentle cesarean. So I'm a huge believer. It's like, you can always redeem things, right? So, you know, some women need cesareans. They will literally die. Okay. In fact, if the WHO. If they see percentages like less than 10% in certain areas, they get concerned that those communities don't have. Have enough medical care, you know, and people are dying, basically. So thank God we have cesareans. They save lives. But there have been study after study after study that show that C section babies have higher risks of inflammatory bowel disease, obesity, diabetes, you know, arthritis, even cancer. Okay. So. And I really believe a lot of this is gut microbiome driven.

And if I could jump in, I think part of it is probably that part of it is that parents do not do a good job restoring adequate microbiome status via the use of things like probiotics and breast milk. And also, I think that the type of parent who would automatically opt for an epidural and a C section might also be the kind of parent who would stray away from natural childbirth and maybe not live as natural a healthy lifestyle anyways, you know, I think that might be part of it as well. Definitely. There might be a lot of confounding variables there. Like they might be the average, like McDonald's Coca Cola chugging, you know, type of person eating a standard American diet. So there. So there's that as well to take into consideration. But. But yeah, it is a valid point. Like, C sections are not the healthiest thing for a baby.

Right, Right. And like, what a blessing that your sons have. You guys as parents, like, you re established it and you, you know what I mean? And you, you help them just, you know, and that's the whole thing. That's what the gentle cesarean's about. It really puts it of focus on the family and the birthing mom versus making it like this medical procedure and so even the way they place like the, the is in a way that the mom is not blocked in seeing the birth and also holding her baby after birth, they have see through drapes because they do like to create like a sterile, like surgical field. So they have these drapes up, but they're see through. So again, the mom can see. In fact, two nurses, I think they're out of Ohio, they created a drape that's see through and it even has a little flap where the doctor passed away after, you know, he or she's born. So that's another thing that's really wonderful. The why, you know, the mom is part of this experience. The doctor also, which is really cool. He'll make the incision and then let the baby kind of squirm out. Okay. And it kind of rep, you know, recreates the baby skin squeezed through the birth canal, which helps them get rid of a lot of fluids. You know, they pick up a lot of fluid from being in a sack of fluid for not months. But it also, you know, just helps them get out of their lungs. And it's just, it's good for them. So that's another thing that's kind of cool that they recreate. They also delay the cutting of the cord. You know, usually if you have a C section, they cut the cord immediately. And there's actually a lot of benefits for leaving the cord intact till it stops pulsating, so for several minutes. So they do that. They do immediate skin to skin contact, which is, that's. That alone is a great way to. To help your baby's microbiome because they pick up a lot just from your skin. And then they do something called a vaginal swab. And this is really what it sounds like. They swab mom and they place that fluid into the baby's mouth or they will even put it on the mom's nipples for breastfeeding. And this helps to populate the baby's gut. It helps to inform their immune system. It helps with that establishment and the strengthening of their microbiome. So that's super cool. And so it just, it basically supports like that first hour after you give birth, ideally should be this magical hour where you're bonding, you're connecting, you guys are flooding each other with endorphins from the skin to skin contact. The skin to skin contact also helps to regulate the baby's heart rate and breathing and even blood sugar. So it's really beneficial for both the mom and the baby. And the dad. The dad should get it on it, and, and it's just they don't, you know, in most C sections, it's like they whisk baby off, they clean them, they wrap them, they put them in a heater and you know, they're, they're busy like sewing up mom. Well, they do all of this. They're literally like sewing up mom as the mom is like breastfeeding and as the mom is like in skin to skin, you know, connection with her child. So it's super cool. It's like one of my passions, but it's really not common. It's like so new school. Like it's like in less than 1% of hospitals. So, like, you know, there's a long way we have to go with it. But it's a really awesome way to do a C section.

Yeah. Yeah. I love it. And I know in your book you have a lot of information on these natural birthing centers and also ways to get one of these gentle C sections. So you guys can access the shownotes over@BenGreenfieldFitness.com Mama Natural BenGreenfieldFitness.com Mamanatural Genevieve, I have kind of an interesting question for you because you're pretty immersed in the natural pregnancy movement and in the birthing, I don't know, the birthing industry, I guess you could say. Do you think there's anything really interesting coming down the pipeline in terms of ways that you think women will be giving birth differently five or ten years from now? Whether that's robots and artificial intelligence or whether it's something a bit more natural than that? Like what do you see coming down the pipeline when it comes to this industry of childbirth or the way that humans actually bring other humans into the world?

Well, I think it's an awesome question. I think God willing, gentle cesareans will become the norm in hospitals. I think we're finally, I feel like even Western Med is really now seeing the power and the importance of the microbiome. So I think I would, you know, love to see that. And I think we will eventually get there. I also think like home births and birthing center births will continue to grow because just more and more studies come out about their safety, about how they're actually safer, there's better outcomes for baby and mom, you know, obviously in most, you know, low risk situations. So I think we're going to continue. We already, we already are seeing an increase in home births and in birth center births. That's just going to continue. So I think eventually, you know, we will get to a Day where women don't give birth in hospitals, you know, unless it's a medical emergency, unless they do need a cesarean. And then it will be a gentle cesarean. So when we get to that day, it will be a very happy day. But I just think that, you know, like, in Europe, most women are giving birth outside of the hospital. You know, hospital is for sick patients, for people that need emergency care, for surgery, things like that. Not for a very ordinary yet very miraculous process of birth. So.

So you don't think that women will be using Oculus Rift to go through their childbirth and replicate that and practice everything before they actually go in and give birth?

Well, maybe. I mean, that would be pretty cool.

I just made that up on the spot.

But actually, I mean, I kind of did that. Like, that's why, you know, one of my things for pain relief is, like, really practicing when you're pregnant. Breathing, meditation, visualization. I mean, then you can kind of like simulate birth, you know what I mean? Even before you give birth and really imagine it and get all your senses involved. But this is not going to be. This is like through your own imagination and through breath and through visualization. Right. So yours is a more like, you know, tech way of doing that. But yeah, I think all that's hugely helpful. Just to imagine it, to envision it, and then it will become that interesting.

Well, Genevieve, this is fascinating. Your book was a super fun read. And again, if you're expecting, if you plan on expecting, if you want to be expecting, whatever, or if you know someone who is, this book is called the Mama Natural Week by Week Guide to Pregnancy and Childbirth. Quite a mouthful, but quite a good book as well. So give it a read. I'll link to it in the show notes@bengreenfieldfitness.com Mamanou Natural in addition to everything else we talked about, from what I'm able to hunt down for red raspberry leaf tea, to my interview with the folks at Urban Moonshine and Wendy Myers, to Belly Armor, to that article about hypermobility, my interview with the guy who did the coffee podcast, and much more. So check all of it out@BenGreenfieldFitness.com Mamanatural and in the meantime, Genevieve, thanks for coming on the show.

Thank you so much for having me, Ben. It was so fun.

Awesome. All right, folks. Well, I am Ben Greenfield, along with Genevieve Howland, signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com have a healthy week. You've been listening to the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast. Go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com for even more cutting edge fitness and performance advice. Sam. Sa.