Sexual Biohacking With Scream Creams, Testosterone Replacement, Multiple Orgasms, Vaginal Stimulating Devices, Salad Dressings For Better Erections & More!

I have a master's degree in physiology, biomechanics and human nutrition. I've spent the past two decades competing in some of the most masochistic events on the planet. From Sealfit, Kokoro, Spartan Agoji, and the world's toughest mudder to 13 Ironman triathlons, brutal bow hunts, adventure races, spearfishing, plant foraging, free diving, bodybuilding and beyond. I combine this intense time in the trenches with a blend of ancestral wisdom and modern science. Searched the globe for the world's top experts and performance, fat loss recovery, gut hormones, brain beauty and brawn to deliver you this podcast. Everything you need to know to live an adventurous, joyful and fulfilling life. My name is Ben Greenfield. Enjoy the ride. Hey folks, it's Ben Greenfield. And you may have heard a couple of months ago a podcast that I did that was on almost like a sexual biohacking podcast. I talked with my friend and physician, Dr. Amy Killen. We talked about platelet rich plasma injections for men and women, how something called the O shot can improve the duration of female orgasms and how guys can orgasm for a longer period of time. What happens when you inject stem cells into a dude's unit, which Amy actually did on me. We talked about things like vampire breast lifts and cosmetic face procedures with exosomes, all sorts of cool things. And I'll link to that original podcast in the show. Notes for today's podcast, which you can get over@BenGreenfieldFitness.com BioHackSex that's BenGreenfieldFitness.com BiohackSex but I figured because there's so much more that we could talk about that we didn't unpack, that I would bring Amy back along with a special guest. That's right, you get a two for one on today's show. I've got world renowned sexual technique advisor and the woman who's often called the Dear Abby of hot sex, Susan Bratton on the call as well. And Susan wrote this book called Sexual Soulmates. And this is what she does. She kind of has these outside the box approaches to sex techniques and bedroom communication skills to help a lot of people with the, with the intimacy piece and transforming sex into passionate sexual. I even lower my voice as I say passionate sucks. So that's my, that's my, my movie trailer. Announcer voice kicking in there. So first of all, Amy and Susan, welcome to the show. Amy, welcome back to the show. Susan, welcome to the show for the first time.

That was a great intro. Thank you. Very good. I Like the way you learned your voice.

Yeah.

You are vibrations.

Right. It's never a podcast about sex till somebody gets all sultry with their. With their enunciation. So anyways, I know that there's a lot of areas that we could kind of start off with here, but, Susan, you actually have what you call six essentials to connected sex. Six essentials to connected Sex. You have a whole book about this, but can you tell people a little bit about what these. These six essentials are? And we have time to unpack them as this is a. This podcast gets long in the tooth sometimes. Good.

I'm glad. Yeah. What. What I've done. So for about 12 years, I've been helping people. They. I publish hot sex techniques in bedroom communication skills. That's what I do. I teach people, like, advanced orgasm skills, kind of sexual biohacking in a way. Like how I call myself an orgasma knot. Like, how far out in the orgasmic field can I go and with my partner? And so then I report back from outer space and shine the light for people to follow me out into incredible pleasure. And over the years. And I got started doing this because. And Amy knows Tim, my gorgeous husband. Tim and I were married for 10 years. Our sex life went to hell in a handbasket. We were. We ended up being platonic friends. He was emotionally checked out of our marriage, and we were like, what do we need to do to get this back? Because, like, I could get a new husband, but I would never do better. And I'd like to think he feels the same about me as a wife. So we ended up taking all these tantric lovemaking classes and going to Tony Robbins and Walking on Fire and just doing, like, all this, like, $25,000 worth of personal growth. And we learned techniques that helped us not only turn our sex life back on, but take it to a new level. And it's gotten better ever since. And I've been with him now for 27 years. Oh, child bride.

Okay, so I have to ask real quick. You did Tony Robbins, and what else did you say you did?

Oh, God. We did ecstatic lovemaking, which was tantric classes. We did orgasmic meditation back when Nick was just starting. We've done a lot of different sex workshops. The Human Awareness Institute. Level after level after level of that. Like, we live in Northern California, and so we're in the nexus of where polyamory and open relationships and expanded orgasm meet personal development in the human growth movement. And so we had access to a lot of that.

Is that okay? So I Have one more question. And by the way, Amy, I'm fine if. Yeah, if you want to pipe in too, but is that because I haven't done any of that. Me and my wife have a good sexual relationship, and we've read some books probably very similar to yours with sexual techniques and ways to. For example, one of my favorite books on this topic is the Multi Orgasmic man. And I practice those techniques, like the Power draw and some of the other tantric tactics that he teaches in that book. But the main thing that's kept me from going to any of these courses, I think one that I was very interested in for a while. It was called something like o. Something along those lines, like an orgasmic class for. For couples. Is. Is it. Yeah. Is it weird or awkward to be there with your partner orgasming or engaged in. In sexual techniques in the presence of, like, an instructor or other people in.

A room full of naked people? It is so fricking confrontational. Every single time we would be driving to go to one of these weekend workshops or whatever, I would have a. I would have a meltdown, like, to the point where. And I'm. I'm actually a suit, though I'm an energetic person. I hope Amy will attest I'm a super mellow person too. Like, very grounded. I do not think you're mellow at all. Not mellow, but grounded. Right. I mean, not drama, just excitement. And I would get out of the car and like, have a meltdown on the way to every single one. And that was when we realized that the kinds of experiences that you can have in these naked sex workshops with a room full of people are. Are incredibly profound. But who's going to do it? Which is why we started our company, Personal Life Media, to get. To create workshops in a box for people who want to learn at home together. We're all about home study in the bedroom, essentially.

That's way more appealing to me.

Right. For 99% of people, they don't want to put themselves in such an edgy situation. I had so much to lose. I was willing.

I've been in a nudie bar before. It's kind of awkward. It's a lot of, like, hairy people with stuff swinging around and hitting you in the thigh.

So to answer your question, what happened was this is how we started helping other couples through our online programs. So people have been emailing me for a dozen years. Hey, you know, can I ask you a question? Sure. What's your question? And so through the anonymity of email, people have poured their hearts out to me. And I've tested a bunch of stuff over the years. Hey, try this, try this, try this, try this. And I've seen what works and what doesn't, what you can get your partner to do if you're the one that wants more and you need to lead them to more. And then when my friend Arielle Ford launched her soulmates book, she was like, could you write the, you know, the, like, risque chapter for me of what you would say it would take to turn your mate into your sexual soulmate instead of just your soulmate? And I was like, great prompt, mama. I'll write that for you. And I thought, okay, what? Over the last 12 years, have really been the. And I like things that are like, super easy little hinges that swing big doors. Like, profoundly simple, but massively impactful. Shifts, mindsets often, things like that. And I came up with what I thought were really the bomber six, that if you knew these six things, these six things of essential sex, you and the puddy cat could really have a great, hot sex life. These were the. These were the blockers that no one told you. And when you heard them, you were like, oh, God, I could do that.

Yeah, I want. I want to hear what they are. But by the way, was that an attempt at Sylvester from Looney Tunes?

Can you do a better one for me with six?

Fluffer and fluckitash?

Fluffer and Fluckitash.

This is going downhill fast.

It is.

Thank God. All right, so here's the six. Number one, and this one you'll get right away. But people struggle with it. So I have some ways to do it that make it easy. Presence, being present and in the moment with your partner. That's what makes it passionate when you're playing off each other. But we get twisted up in our own underwear and beds. So that's one. Number two is setting the lover space. The context, the environment is particularly important for women to surrender to their pleasure. So I teach people how to create the environment that is conducive to super hot sex. Number three. And this is one I think we should dive into a little bit later on in the. In the conversation, if you'd like to, because I think it's probably the most profound thing. And that is something I call the sexual soulmate pact. And it's essentially an agreement that explodes passionate lovemaking, because you're on the same page about feedback and understanding what you want. And there's some really clever little tricks to it that are very much biohacky in a way, understanding your body. The next is polarity. The masculine, feminine. We end up platonic because women are as strong as men these days. We're out in the world, we're calling the shots. And so it's about how to have that masculine, feminine connection in the bedroom, even to the point where you can switch roles and it gets even hotter. And then the next is. Number five is embodied sexuality. And I can give you more detail about it, but it's. It kind of dovetails in with presence, but it's how to actually be more sensual together. And then the fifth or the sixth one is something I call erotic play dates. And I believe it is the key to sizzling monogamy. So those are the six.

Okay, that last one, that's very interesting. The erotic play dates. Do you mean this concept of going out on a date and dressing up and scheduling everything and doing like a hotel stay, even if it's in your own city or a home vacation, Things along those lines.

It's nice to know what it triggered for you in thinking, no, that's all way too hard and doesn't get to sex fast enough.

Okay.

I don't do all that work to have sex. I just want to have hot sex. You know, one of my favorite phrases is the couple that plays together stays together, especially in the bedroom. And erotic play dates are a commitment to the two. And the reason it's number six is you kind of have to work your way up to it. You don't start there typically if you haven't got. If you haven't nailed the other five. But it's the idea that there are things you can learn. For example, my husband Tim and I have had an expanded orgasm practice for 14 years. Once, sometimes, if I'm lucky, twice a week, we lay down in bed together and he gives me what is essentially a genital massage, a clitoral stroking massage that puts me into essentially, it's a way to do a clitoral stroke that allows a woman to take that moment of climax and that moment out like taffy so that she stays in that peak climactic experience. For it'll go five seconds, then 10 seconds, then 20, then 30, then she learns how to stay in hold and sustain the sensation of the peak moment of climax while he or she, you know, it can be any sex, gender spectrum, partner, that the giver is essentially taking the receiver, the woman on this ride, and he or she's taking over the woman's nervous system and taking her up into this expanded state and Then giving her a little break, because you have to toggle the sympathetic, parasympathetic, sympathetic nervous system. And then taking her up again and holding it even longer and then giving her a little break, then taking her up again. That avoids clitoral fatigue, which is often a reason a woman is like a one and done orgasmic champion. When women are infinitely orgasmic, as are men, by the way. So we also teach techniques like that you're studying from Montauk Chia's book that we've perfected to another level, separating ejaculation and orgasm for men, because there's two separate systems as well. So erotic play dates are things like learning to have an expanded orgasm. Practice together. If you lay your wife down and stroke her genitals once a week and you take her on this ride, she is naturally going to want to be more sexual with you. And you're going to, as her masculine sexual leader, open her up to a level of orgasmic pleasure she even imagined was possible. And it brings you so close and so turned on for each other. And that's just one thing you could learn together as a couple. There are many, many ways you can learn new skills together. And that's what I think keeps monogamy hot, is when you're beginners, beginners together. It's like feeling like a teenager again in bed, because you're learning together, which is key to removing any of that kind of egoic need to be right or do it right or any of those things that kind of get in the way of being authentically present together and just being real.

Interesting. I want to bring Amy in, in a moment to talk about some of the technologies that can enhance this process and some of the procedures we can. We can kind of use outside of the bedroom as well. But before that, you know, I think a lot of guys would be interested in hearing just like a quick tip from you or a way that they can begin to delve into this idea of multiorgasm or longer orgasms, or the orgasm without ejaculation on the men's side.

Well, let's take it both ways, and I'll give you the perfect segue to Amy's expertise. And that is engorgement, the way to both last longer as a man, because one in four men have issues where they'd like to last longer, they'd like to have more stamina, and women would like to become more orgasmic. And in both cases, and as well as a lot of other, let's just call it orgasmic, Pleasure skills come from your genitalia, your clitoral structure, or the corpus cavernosum, corpus spongiosum, which started out as the same exact thing when we all started as girls, females, and then some of us got the hormonal bath that turned the clitoris into the penis. We have homologous genitalia. They're the same parts arranged in a different way. And what gets missed is slow, steady, deep arousal, where you're actually engorging the entire penile structure, the deep buried shaft, as well as just the part that's sticking out of the body, the entire clitoral structure, the glands, the shaft, the little arms, the little legs of the clitoris that looks like a little starfish. And one of the things that Amy does in her expertise is get that tissue to engorge really well, which increases pleasure, orgasmic intensity. It increases the ability to sustain an erection in both men and women. And it helps keep all that tissue really full of blood. Blood flow is such a big key to orgasmic pleasure. And going the distance over the years with your partner.

Wow, that's really fascinating. And you explore a lot of this in your book or do people actually need to go take. Take a course like you mentioned, that you do home courses? How does that exactly work?

So one of my courses is called Expand her orgasm tonight. And it's 21 erotic play dates for couples that teach you all of the things that you need to do to settle down and lock your nervous systems together in a conjoined trance state of orgasmic bliss. And it takes a while for a couple to get that entrained together, a few practice sessions. So we broke it down into things you could do. All right, tonight we're going to play the start stop game. And the next night we're going to do this finding her spot game and you know, those kinds of things so you can learn together. So Expand Her Orgasm tonight is one. I also have a program called female liquid Orgasm, which teaches women how to have goddess get, how to receive goddess healing massages, g spot pleasuring, and to understand all about female ejaculation. Because women ejaculate as well as men and they can have org with it or not. Just like men. Men can have full body energy orgasms without ejaculation or they can have orgasms with ejaculation. Women are the same way. And so we have a course that teaches that. We have a course that teaches a stamina technique called multi orgasmic lover for men that teaches men how to become full body energy Orgasmic men who ejaculate only when they want to. So each one of these is kind of like a. An experience in a box, if you will.

What do you mean when you say courses? Is that something someone downloads or are these like packages sent to the house?

Well, I have some that are packages sent to the house. Like my steamy sex ed. I don't mean to be talking about all my stuff, but you asked. My steamy sex ed video collection is eight. It could be eight DVDs, or you can get digital video or both. And that's for couples to watch together. It starts with sensual massage, then erotic orgasmic massage, then oral pleasuring, then lovemaking techniques like 200 heart connected techniques that you can watch together, like let's plug in the fellatio secrets or the. Something like that today, honey. And why don't you watch that and practice on me, which is always a fun one.

Yeah, just take. Take that. Take that CD out of the player before the kids come home to watch their tv. Okay, Interesting. Now, you talked about blood engorgement to the clitoris and about some of the things that a doc like Amy can do to enhance that. Amy, can you get into some of the procedures that a woman would undergo or some of the tools or technologies that a woman could use to actually do that?

Yes. So there's several different options. There are options that the doctors would do for you. So things that I do, like PRP injections, like the O shot, where we actually inject the clitoris itself, as well as the part of the vaginal wall. We also use stem cells in those areas, like you and I have talked about before, where we can use the regenerative power, kind of of your own body to heal itself and regenerate itself, ultimately increasing blood flow there. There are also a number of different devices, like radio frequency devices and lasers that can also be used by physicians to kind of increase the health of the tissue in those areas to help improve blood flow and collagen and such like that. And then there's some other things, like medications. There are topical compounded creams that I use with patients sometimes that they can just apply the cream at home when they're ready to, you know, before they're going to have sex. And it actually will cause increased blood flow. They're vasodilators, so it increases blood flow. We call them scream creams, which I think is apartment but it increases blood flow to those areas. So you get sort of immediate blood flow. Sometimes you get increased, you know, sensation in those Areas as well, prior to having sex. Nitric oxide can help as well. So there's kind of a lot of different things that we use.

That was a lot of stuff.

I just talked a lot.

Yeah. I want to actually ask you about details of a few of those things, like the Scream cream. What exactly is that? Like, what's the active ingredient in that?

So there's all different varieties out there. Some of them will have. Will actually have, like, sildenafil, which is generic Viagra, or tadalafil, which are used off label in women. So we don't have. We are not used by. The fda, has prescribed it for men, but we know that it works to increase blood flow. So there are topical applications where we can compound some of these things as well as some of the other vasodilators that are, again, used for other purposes, generally that open up blood vessels. And we'll put several of those things together into a cream, and the woman can just apply it before sex, and it helps to get the blood there. The problem with women, as Susan can attest, is that it's not always a blood flow issue. That's part of it sometimes. But a lot of whether or not a woman is having a good experience is about what's going on in her head, what's going on with the relationship, what's going on with the laundry and the kids and the stress and all these things. So it's not all about blood flow, but certainly blood flow is important, just like it is in men. So we can do several things to improve that.

Now, that scream cream, that's something that would need to be put together by a physician or like a compounding pharmacist, right?

Yeah, exactly. It would be a physician, you know, someone specifically who does a lot of sexual health or someone who does hormones and things like that that is familiar with kind of putting together compounded creams.

Okay. Now, some of these procedures, like the injections, for example, my wife did the stem cells. She did the stem cells into her clitoris. And I think it was just kind of around the labia, if I'm not mistaken. I think those are the two spots where she was injected. And then you, of course, as we talked about in detail in the last podcast, you know, when I was under sedation down there In Park City, you, Utah, after Dr. Harry injected my whole body with stem cells and all the joints with stem cells, then you did the sexual and the cosmetic procedures. Now, as far as what someone would expect when they come out of something like that, you know, Male or female, do you actually get feedback in terms of things that people have found success combining that with. You mentioned things like nitric oxide precursors. I know that there's this concept of using some of that stuff in conjunction with this gainswave therapy, which we'll get into in a second. But are there any things that people can do to enhance that process or that procedure after it's been done?

I mean, the main things I tell for women, I usually send them home with an intravaginal device called the intensity device, which is a. It's kind of like a TENS device for your vagina, for your pelvic floor muscles. And so it's a device that goes into the vagina and it's like a tens of ISO where it actually stimulates your pelvic floor muscles. So I have women use that at home because if we have stronger, healthier pelvic floor muscles, you can have stronger, better orgasms. It's also helpful for things like your stress incontinence, when they leak a little bit of urine, when they jump on trampolines and things like that. I usually have them follow up with using the intensity device at home. And then again, I make sure their hormones are balanced. Their estrogen, progesterone, testosterone. I do a lot of bioidentical hormones, and that's a whole other thing. But, you know, you gotta be healthy systemically in order to have a good sex life. That's kind of an important key. And then the nitric oxide and the screen creams, the lasers, and there's all kinds of things that we do. But, you know, making sure that they are healthy in general is a part of it. And then, of course, they have to kind of work on their relationships and their stress and those kinds of things at home as well.

Now, Susan, when you're putting together these. These type of packages and programs for people to have better orgasms or to enhance their sexuality, are you also kind of getting into things like supplements, foods, ways to increase nitric oxide, or even these type of technologies that Amy is referring to?

Oh, yeah. Amy and I have done a whole series of videos on the five causes and eight cures for erectile dysfunction as an example. We collaborated on that, and we give that away from for free. So I do as much about sex. I have a salad dressing for erectile function, a recipe, because people. I'm constantly trying to get my fans to eat more salad. But I realized that the reason they're not eating salad like I'm eating salad is because they're Using bottled dressing. And so I gave them my basic vinaigrette dressing. Shaking up in a bottle, keeps in your refrigerator for two weeks dressing so that they would be inclined to eat more salads. Because if you make your own dressing, it's not only healthy, it's delicious. So I'm constantly working on everything from what supplements are good for you to these technologies like the O shot, the P shot, the gainswave, the femilifts, the, you know, all of those. And I've done them all myself as well, because I walk my talk, and so the third leg of my stool, I am advanced sexual techniques, bedroom communication skills and sexual health and vitality. Like AIM just said, they go hand in hand. If you're not healthy, your sexual vitality is your health. They are inextricably entwined. So, yeah, I do all of those things, and I mostly give all that sexual health information away for free. And then the orgasm skills are the things that are kind of like the programs that people buy from.

Interesting. Yeah, I've said that before on a podcast, that this whole concept that has been kind of floating around the. The Internets of guys specifically having, like, giant steak dinners with hollandaise sauce and as many fats as possible a couple hours before sex or when they're on a date as their chosen meal is a pretty bad idea, because all you do is get a bunch of blood redirected to the gut to digest that meal. And like, a far better, far better choice would be, yeah, you get a lot of nitric oxide precursors like arugula and spinach and beets. And, you know, I call this, like, my power sex salad recipe. Carrots, red onions, a little bit of apple, and then, like, a ton of extra virgin olive oil. You have that with a. With a glass or two of red wine and a bunch of dark chocolate and. Holy. I mean, whether you're a bodybuilder getting ready to pose on stage or whether you're somebody getting ready to perform in the bedroom, that's a really potent way to enhance nitric oxide. I can only imagine what would happen in the bedroom. Yeah. Once you throw the. Once you throw the scream cream into that. So the one that I get a lot of questions about, too, Amy, is the gainswave procedure. And I think a lot of people are under the potentially mistaken impression this just involves. Maybe this is my fault, too, for describing it like this. Somebody getting a jackhammer taken to their dick or a woman just getting her vagina shocked with sound waves. Now, is that exactly what this procedure Is, or how do you describe the whole Gainswave protocol?

Yes, it's definitely not a jackhammer. It does sound like it. If you're listening to it from the other room, it sounds like it. So Gainswave is. It's a type of low intensity shockwave therapy. It's been around, the technology has been around for, for many years, has been used for all different things, including increasing blood flow to the heart after patients who've had heart attacks, which is kind of interesting. There's some, several studies that have shown that heart attack patients, you do this shockwave therapy, which sends these sort of high intensity sound waves into the tissue and it actually increases blood flow. So wherever you put it, that's what it does. So in post MI patients, post heart attack patients, they've actually shown improvements in blood flow, which is pretty cool. We've also used it, our medicine has used it for increasing blood flow to musculoskeletal pain, joints, fasciitis, things like that. But in the last 10 years or so is what it's been studied to be used for men for erectile dysfunction, as well as just improving performance. Because we found that these same shock waves that we send into the tissue can increase blood flow in the penis. So that's what we're using it for. So it's not so much the mechanical sort of jackhammer part of it, and it's the sound waves that you don't see that are going into the tissue that are stimulating blood vessel formation, nitric oxide formation in the penis, recruiting stem cells to the penis. So you get kind of all these things happening and it results in better.

Blood flow, better erections, AKA the bomber boner.

The bomber boner. I like it. You're chock full of fun little phrases.

Susan, she's got all kinds of phrases. Yeah, she does.

Okay, so can I. And I get this question because a lot of people listen in there like me, they're n equals 1 folks or their home biohackers. And I realize people cringe when I throw that word around, but it just kind of covers. It's a good cover all statement for a lot of these type of things we're talking about today. But people want to know whether they can just go out to a website or ebay or Alibaba or whatever and find one of these admittedly expensive shockwave machines and just take them into their home and do them that way. I mean, is that something someone could potentially do? Just like buy one of these for their house and do this on their couch in the comfort of their own home.

I wouldn't recommend it. There are specific protocols that we use that you want to have someone who knows what they're doing do it. They're also pretty expensive. There are sort of cheap versions of the machines out there that I've had patients come to me and say, hey, I bought this cheap version of this machine and I've been using it, and it's not working. And there's probably a reason for that. There are a few machines that are FDA approved for increasing blood flow in this manner in the US and that's one of the machines that I use. And mostly they're used by medical practices and such. So it's definitely better to have someone who knows what they're doing. It's a pretty safe procedure, but you still want to have someone who knows what they're doing.

Okay, so when you're going through. I mean, at your office, when you buy a machine like this, is there some kind of training or something you go through?

Yeah, I went out to Florida and trained with Dr. Gaines when I first learned how to do it. And then I came back and then brought that training to my staff who does the procedures here. So it's, you know, it was a pretty full training curriculum. We learned not just how the machine works, but, you know, how to do the protocols and then all the things that you want to do to support the way that it's working and to support the results going forward.

Okay, got it. Have you done this procedure, Susan? Just delving into your own personal sexual life?

Not only have I done it, my husband's done it. And I recommend for all my guys that follow me to get gainswave with the P shot because I like the idea of the transdermals, the slightly damaging effect of the gains wave, so that your body's repairing the tissue and making it better and putting your own prp and if you could afford it, stem cells. I mean, that's the creme de la creme into that tissue and then the third piece of it, which. Amy, I think you give away pumps too. I really like it when a man does a series of penis pumping for as long as he's willing to do it. I like the. My favorite pumps are the Dr. Joel Kaplan because they have this cylinder that I call the Whopper. And it's a cylinder that lets you get both the scrotal tissue, your balls, as well as your penis up in there. So after you've had your gains wave and your P shot, or your stem cells, if you're lucky enough to do that, then you pump a couple times a week. It's like building a muscle. And it draws all that fluid through the tissue and it expands your penile dimension. And what I like about using the Whopper, the larger cylinder, is that you can get the part of your penis that's buried inside you. Like about half your penile shaft is inside you, up under the perineum in your abdominal area. And when they do the gainswave, they get in there, as you know, and they get kind of deep, deep into the shaft, which is awesome. It's the only thing I've seen that does that. And I love it because if you're, if you're actually working with the whole structure, that all that corpus cavernosum, which is that, that erectile tissue that fills with blood, which is what helps you get a hard on, and you're pumping that, then you are slowly enlarging your penis. You're making it more robust. It has more carrying capacity for blood, and it looks magnificent.

And so, yeah, I've got one. When I did my gainswave procedure, they gave me a fancy digital penis pump, which I thought was the Cadillac of penis pumps. I hadn't heard of this Dr. Joel Kaplan penis pump before, but the thing that kind of bugged me about it was the day that I turned it on and tried to go hands free while working and my balls got sucked in and it was incredibly uncomfortable, like standing there trying to yank my balls out of this penis pump. Now is that uncomfortable to have men mention to you that when they use something like this Kaplan pump, that they experience that, that same kind of sucking, intense pressure sensation I had. Or is this specifically designed for it to be more comfortable for the testicles?

It's a design to accommodate and get that perineal area and get more of that buried shaft up into the tube. And so no, that's the whole reason why you don't want to use a regular small size pump to do that. You want to get what, I don't even know what the model number is. Everybody just calls it the Whopper.

I'll find it on Amazon and I'll link to it in the show notes along with everything else we talk about. And I'll link to your programs too. I'll hunt them down and just, just go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com BioHackSex and I'll include that stuff. Amy, do they make a version of this for women too? Like some kind of something very similar to the pump for women?

They Actually, do they have. And I think. Actually, I think Kaplan. Joel Kaplan's website has women's clitoral pumps also. There's not as much data, honestly, for women as there is for men. We know that penis pumping for men, even by itself, even if you don't do all these other things, can be helpful in improving function and even size. Because getting the blood in there, getting that blood to sort of get to all areas of the penis things that. Areas that maybe it's not getting to the oxygen, all of that is really good for women. It's been studied. And I. You know, some people think it helps and people don't, but. So it's not as well studied in women, but they do make them. They do make clitoral.

Okay, got it.

I use the vulva pump.

Interesting. It's called a vulva pump.

Yeah, I got a vulva pump and a clip pump and a nipple pump.

Your house is probably like mine, except. Except different. I get, like, protein powders and energy bars sent to my house to try and sometimes, like, such awesome stuff. Sauna bulbs. You. You get clitoris and penis pumps.

Well, I gotta try all this stuff. It's the same exact thing you do. This is what I do.

It's immersive journalism.

Was a mystery vibe that has six independent motors and an app. And I had to turn it over to him, and I was like, dude, you do it to me. I. I mean, it was, like, so complex, I couldn't even figure out how to do it. Thank God I married an electrical engineer.

Yeah, I honestly, I don't like a lot of that complex stuff. I mean, we, like, in our bedroom, we've got. And we have a wedge, we have a vibrator. We have a few other small things, but anything that requires, like, a handheld device and a Bluetooth connection, and you mess around with an app, like, I'm out.

That's too much.

We decided it's the mystery vibes for the masturbatory aficionado. You know, someone who, like, really wants to do that for a while in a lot of different ways. So there's a market for everything, you know, I mean, different people like different things, which is why I always like to try a lot of stuff and just talk about my experience. It just gives people more perm. What I do, what I really do to help people. And I bet, Amy, you feel the same way when people come into you, is we give people permission. Permission to be okay, to want more, to want to live more boldly into their sexuality.

Interesting. So when it comes to this, this idea of sex, a big part of it is the decline in sexual performance that can sometimes occur with age. And something I get a lot of questions about is bioidentical hormone replacement therapy. I'm curious if either of you have a history of using that or prescribing it and what your thoughts are about something like that. And one of the burning questions that I want to ask you, that I especially get from a lot of people, this might be one that you could answer, Amy, is if you do get on some kind of a bioidentical kind of similar to men who begin to supplement with testosterone, are you just kind of on it for the rest of your life?

Yes, that's a good question. So I do a lot of hormones. I do a lot of identical hormones. I use only bioidentical hormones, which means I'm not giving any hormones that are not the same ones that your body makes. And I give them to men and women. And certainly with men, we do testosterone, but sometimes younger men don't need testosterone. They can make their own. So we can do other things like HCG or Clomid to help, just boost their own production, to help them that way. But once you are on testosterone, testosterone, you are actually going to be decreasing your own production of testosterone. So it's a negative feedback leap. So when we give you testosterone, you don't make as much testosterone. So in that regard, yes, once you're on it, you're kind of on it, unless you decide not to be, and your levels will fall after you're not taking it. However, most men, as we know, after age 40, 50 or so, are going to have declining testosterone levels. And testosterone is not just important for sex, although it is important for sex. It's also important for so many other things in your body, from memory to your mood, to your motivation, to your cardiac status, muscle building. There's so many things that testosterone does that when you lose, really affects how men feel and women too. It's also important for women. So to me, the benefits of replacing hormones in this way far outweigh the need to continue to be on them long term.

Is there a certain delivery mechanism that you use, like a cream versus an injection, for example?

I use everything, so it's patient specific. I use injections, I use compounded creams, I use pellets, where I insert the pellets under the skin and they stay there for four to six months and just kind of dissolve slowly. For women, I use a lot of, you know, trochees or things under the tongue where they go sublingual. So it really depends on what the patient is wanting, what they're comfortable with, you know, what the, what their goals are. But we can, we can do all different types of hormones.

How often when you're doing these hormones do you have people come back and test to make sure their levels are staying balanced?

In the beginning, when I'm first starting someone on hormones, I'll have them come back usually about two or three months after I start the dosing. And I'll check not just the testosterone levels for men, but we also check estrogen, we check some of the binding hormones like shbg. We also check the blood counts because when you take testosterone, your blood counts are going to go up. So your hemoglobin, hematocrit tend to go up. So we make sure they don't go too high. So we check other things as well. Once someone is pretty stable on their regimen, it's usually about every six months that I'm checking in with them, as long as they feel good.

I think that's one of the dangers that a lot of men and women run into when they begin to buy some kind of a progesterone cream off the Internet or you know, testosterone replacement from some fringe website is you have zero medical involvement in terms of testing. You know, and obviously there are companies like Wellness FX or you know, the Dutch test for hormones, which is a great 24 hour urine test, which in my opinion is better than like a single snapshot blood panel for hormones. But ultimately, even though there are ways that you could test and look at levels yourself, I think we've got an epidemic of people just, just popping stuff willy nilly without realizing, you know, for example, testosterone supplementation done incorrectly can lead to a bunch of over aromatization. And you've got guys running around with too much estrogen and man boobs and shrinking balls.

Yeah, there's a lot of things that people don't always realize. You know, testosterone can sometimes, if you get too much of it can affect your lipids, your cholesterol, it can decrease your hdl, which is kind of your good cholesterol, you know, increase your blood count. So there are certainly things that we have to follow in these patients and make sure that it's safe for them. And that's why I think it's important if you're doing it, that you have someone who knows what they're doing, who's watching you, watching over you while you're doing it.

Okay, got it.

You Know what I think happens with people? I've noticed this is an interesting thing that occurs, is if you can't. A lot of times it's the woman who says to her husband, you should go get your testosterone checked. She can tell that he's kind of turning into a little old lady. Like, he's like. He's like losing his ball, losing his vitality, his zest for life, generally. And that's what happens when your testosterone counts go down. And, you know, guys are often resistant to going to the doctor and getting things checked out. And women are more often the kind of the medic of the family doctor. Mom is a very common avatar. And what happens, I think, with some people is there's two things that happen. One is they can't get their traditional allopathic doctor to give them testosterone or estrogen or whatever, depending on men or women. What you want estrogen, progesterone, testosterone. I take all three personally. I like the combination. They can't get it through their traditional healthcare system. They don't necessarily have the money to go to a functional medicine doctor or hormone specialist or what have you. They don't feel empowered to do it, or they get so depleted in their hormones that they lose the willpower to change it, and they just dwindle away. I see that with people where they literally don't have the gumption to fix the problem anymore because they've left it to go on too long. And if you could see the difference, if you could take a person like that and put them on bioidentical hormones, send them to Amy, have her do a workup, put them on a plan, it would change their life. They would get that next 50 years full of joy and vitality and zest and energy and cognitive function and muscle tone and all of the things that we have as young people that we lose over time. And it's. It seems to be accelerating with our toxic world. It seems to be really just bombing and beating our endocrine system unmercilessly. And it seems to be one of the things that's taking people down quickly now.

So you're saying you should start on something like this, especially if you're a woman before menopause?

Oh, of course.

Yeah.

Usually. I mean, with women in the 10 years or so before menopause, we start to see hormonal changes where there's less progesterone and more estrogen than they're used to having. So a lot of women will start getting some of the. They'll get, you know, Sort of moody and irritable and irregular periods and premenstrual kind of pain, headaches. There's all kinds of things, you know, sleeplessness that can become. That can come on way before menopause, that we can. We can give progesterone and testosterone to help. And then certainly once women go through menopause, they lose estrogen, which is. Which is so important for everything, and they'll need estrogen replacement at that point. But, yeah, but even. And thyroid, too. We haven't talked about thyroid. That's really important for all of both men and women. And that can be a problem for anyone. People in their 20s, 30s, 50s, 80s. But certainly it's more common as you get older to start having hypothyroid, which is low thyroid problems. And that's something else that needs to be looked at kind of in a different way, I think, than it has been in the past.

How does low thyroid affect sexual performance?

Well, low thyroid hypothyroidism affects. I mean, it affects all different areas of your body. So it causes. In some people, it causes sort of depression or apathy. It can cause weight gain, it can cause constipation, hair loss, and it can also affect your other hormones. So it can affect your testosterone and your estrogen and the way that those things are bound up in your body. So even something as small as getting on the right hormone. Right. Thyroid medication can actually end up affecting your sex drive and your estrogen and your testosterone and all different things that you don't think of as being thyroid related, but they can be.

Okay, got it. So in terms of the actual protocols that you have, these six essentials, Susan. The presence, the lover space, the soulmate pact, polarity, embodied sexuality, and erotic play dates. Those are the six. Right.

You get an A plus.

I know.

Don't.

He was listening.

I'm taking notes. I'm taking notes. One that I wrote down that I wanted to ask you about because obviously people could listen to this podcast for hours. They could just go read the book and actually, I am definitely going to be reading this one. I haven't read it yet. Didn't have a chance to before the show. But the sexual soulmate pact was one that I was very interested in hearing a little bit more about.

Yeah. First of all, I'm going to give you a link to you all. It's just the SEC. It's sexual soulmatepact.com I have that. I carved that out of the book and I made it a freebie because I really wanted people to have it. So let's start. Give me a minute to describe it to you. Okay. The first thing I want to talk about is that men and women are concerned about giving each other feedback in the bedroom. Because women are under the American impression that if they tell a guy and they've had this experience, they say, you know, oh, I don't like that, or do this this way. And the guy says, I know, you don't have to tell me. Well, what women don't understand is that that's not the guy being an asshole. That's just testosterone. Men being testosterone forward and women being estrogen driven have very different ways of doing things. And testosterone makes a guy very sure of himself. That's why he doesn't stop and ask for directions while you're begging him to. When you're lost on the testosterone just is like full speed ahead. I know what I'm doing. Men are overconfident. Women are under confident in a broad generalization due to the hormonal effects of how we're driven by those hormones. And so to bypass to short circuit that whole system of worrying that you're going to upset your partner or worrying that they're going to like snap at you because you tried to tell them what you really needed. Here, here's what we explain. We say, I'd really like. And often I recommend that the woman does this, but it can be the man too. So let's just take it as the woman. I would really like to have super hot sex with you. And one of the things that I know is that I'm actually just an animal. And I would love to be able to be. I would love to be able to always like everything that you do to me. But there are going to be some days, depending on, depending on my hormonal cycle, where I want you to like ravish me and you know, hold my, you know, get my hair on the, underneath the back of the nape of my neck and hold it tight while you kiss me hard. And there are other days when I need you to hold me for a really long time and just let me talk out some of my frustrations and reconnect with you and hold. Be held by you until I'm ready to go up the arousal ladder with you. Now no one, women don't talk like arousal ladder and stuff. I'm a sexpert. You just gotta paraphrase it your own way, right? But I'm just shortcutting it for you with words that you get. So when you say to a lover, let's just say it's a. It's a masculine, feminine. It's a man and a woman. In this particular case, it can. It works across the gender spectrum. She. When she says, you know, sometimes I'm a kitty cat, and sometimes I'm a tiger. And if you understand that, I have no control over my body and what she wants in a given day, much less a given moment, and you're willing to let me just give you feedback whenever I need to so you can dial me in in a minute and give me the incredible pleasure I know you want to give me. I'd really love that open way of communicating. And I have another request if you're willing to do that for me. And of course, he's a yes to it because he's biologically driven to give her incredible pleasure. Because. Because if he doesn't, she won't invite him back inside her velvety love cave. And so, yes, he wants to do that. Women are under the mistake. And the only reason a man kind of like, is a, you know, is, like, aggressive in bed and just a taker is that he's just ignorant to the larger possibility. Men don't do it on purpose. Men are very heartfelt about their sexuality. They want to be winners in bed. And so if a woman asks him that and she's like, sometimes I'm a pussycat, sometimes I'm a tiger, can we just go with whatever it is? And he says, yes, the next step is, okay, there's one thing I have to ask for, and that is that I'd love to not have to use my manners in the bedroom with you. I'd like it to be because I'm an animal. I'd like to have a little bit more animalistic sex with you where I don't have to say, could you please stroke my clitoris a little bit lighter? Because every time I have to go out of my passionate connection with you and I have to use my manners, I end up in my head and out of my body. And if I could just be, like, lighter and just bark out orders, and if you could do this for me, if you could just go, thank you, or got it, or, okay, baby, or how's this, baby? And just acknowledge it and make me feel good that I gave you the feedback. And believe me, this goes both ways. I want you to do the same thing for me, and I don't want you to use your manners. I want to get really good at pleasuring you. Would. Could we have this agreement? Because if I can just Yell it out. And you can just yell it out. And neither of us takes it personally, because how can you know? Because every moment of every day, my body wants a little oh, now I want a tickle scratch. Oh, now scratch it really hard. You know how it is, even with your back scratches. And so if you can do that and when. I'll tell you something. When a guy. When you make that agreement with a guy and you give him the first piece of feedback and he goes, okay, baby, like, really low, like, mm, okay, baby, like that, you're like, oh, my God, this is so hot. I love this guy. First of all, in our minds as women, we're like, he's trainable. This is awesome. And the second thing is, like, he's got me. I feel like he can, like, really adjust to my needs. So I'm just gonna let more out and that in the final culmination. And thank you for giving me the space to say the whole thing. I really appreciate it. In the. In the culmination of it all, what that actually does is it allows her to begin to think about what's really going to feel good to her in the next moment and have the confidence for perhaps the first time in her life, to ask for what she needs and know what it is she actually wants. Because for a lot of women, they are so bound up in the good girl syndrome just through cultural conditioning, that they've never. It's like they don't even know what they want. And this soulmate pact gives them the spacious to tune into their bodies and ask for what would feel good. And then he's thinking about how to touch her in the next moment to give her even more pleasure. And from there, it just goes off like. Like rockets in outer space. That foundation creates a level of authenticity and trust between lovers that get you really good in bed together.

Wow. I'm taking notes. I may have to actually listen to this one again with my wife, but I also want to. I want to look into some of these programs that you do. So I'll. I'm gonna do some research for those of you listening in. And. And I'll be sure to link to everything I find. If you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com Biohacksecs and I'll also put a link to Susan's book, which is probably gonna be the next one. My. My wife and I go through some books together, and the would be one that we'll do. We're going through a few. Right. Actually, right now, we're Just doing like a meditation and manifestation one called the master key. So maybe we'll turn things up a notch and go through sexual soulmates after that.

I have a program on orgasmic meditation where you can meditate together in an orgasmic state. That's the expand her orgasm tonight. That's actually an orgasm and meditation are both the theta brain state. Now I'm getting really nerdy, which I love because I can do with you guys. You're my nerdy friend and I love that about you both. The theta brain, so, so interesting. Like in the soulmate pact, when you go out of your theta state, which is your surrendered to pleasure as well as meditative state, that brainwave state and when you use your manners, you go into beta and beta is your awake state. You're like rational mind. You want to stay out of that thing during sex. You want to stay in your trance state. And the expand her orgasm tonight. That expanded orgasm stroking technique is a conjoined orgasmic meditative trance state. You both go into theta together and you ride her orgasm together. It's really hot. So hot. I love it.

Wow. I know that that you have a patient soon, Amy, and I won't necessarily ask whether or not the patient has this condition, but I am curious about this because recently there was something called National Peyronie's Awareness Day. And I know that a lot of listeners may not really give a crap about Peyronie's or what it is, but it actually is a pretty common issue. I wasn't aware of how big of a deal it is, so I suspect more people have it than the we realized. Can you just give me a quick description of what that is and how you would work with someone to go after a situation like that? Amy?

Yeah. So Peyronie's is a male problem where there's. You get some scarring in the penis in the, you know, just outside the corpus cavernosum. So the area that like the fibrous tissue there becomes scarred. We don't really know why it happens. Sometimes it's related to trauma, sometimes it's autoimmune, or sometimes it just kind of happens. But basically you get scarring that can be painful. And then as it progresses, you can have curving of the penis, usually towards the scar, and then that can be also more painful. And you can also get erectile dysfunction that goes along with it. So it's pain, it's scarring, it's curving, and it goes away on its own sometimes, but sometimes it just gets worse and worse. And. Or just stays around. So it's one of these things that's really hard to treat because we don't really know what causes it. And it's kind of a chronic thing. So we actually have several different things we can do for it now. One of them is the gains wave. So the gains wave, a series of treatments, you know, specifically over that plaque, over that scar tissue, can help break it up. And then we add, you know, add things like the PRP and the stem cells to it. Penis pumping can be very helpful. Helpful. And then there are other things, like some nutritional kind of regimens with, like, vitamin E and CoQ10 and some other things like that that can also help. And it is something that can get better over time. But until the last, you know, pretty recently, it's been something people just kind of suffer and have, you know, sometimes for their whole lives.

It's very sad. A lot of my guys that follow me have Peyronis, and I have sent them to Gainswave. I think that combination that Amy's talking about is the very best thing you can do to reverse that scarring, that tissue damage. Yep.

Okay. So the gains wave, and then you combine it with a lot of these things, things that it sounds like, kind of enhance it. Whether or not a guy has peyronies, like some of these antioxidants, nitric oxide precursors, the pump things along those lines. So it's just very similar to the protocol you'd use, like that Del Bredesen outlines in the End of Alzheimer's or some of the things that people do for TBI or concussions, like Dr. Dan Engel talks about in the concussion repair manual. A lot of this stuff's multimodal. Like, you just stack a whole bunch of stuff on at once.

Yes.

Yeah, that's true. But the shockwave therapy that Gainswave, because you're able to send those sound waves directly into the scar tissue, into the plaque, that in combination with PRP and or stem cells, seems to be even more effective than some of the other things just used systemically.

Okay. Wow.

It's the magic bullet, if there is one. Yeah.

There is so much to explore just based on this quick hour that we had to chat about all these little, little ways to kind of, kind of biohack sex and also just enhance orgasm pleasure, that theta meditative state, tantric sex. All of these things are just so fascinating. You could almost spend your whole life just basically studying the wonders of sex. I think it's.

That's what I do.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So I'll just.

My research is very, very fun. Yeah, I do a lot of research.

That's what I tell people. Honestly, it sounds selfish, but people like how do I cut through all the clutter and confusion? I tell them just buy my book or go to my website and I'll just cut through it all for you because this is the stuff I love to study and it sounds like you kind of do the same for sex, Susan. So thanks for writing the book and I will link to it in the show notes. And in the meantime, for those of you who want to do something like the Gainswave protocol or go and see Amy at her clinic for a little bit even more high end sexual enhancement procedure or cosmetic procedure, I will link to all of that information along with my previous podcast with Amy in the show notes and I'll also link to some of Susan's programs there. And even the penis pump and the clitoral pump we talked about, I'll hunt those down and find them for you too if I can find those on Amazon or elsewhere. So thank you Susan and thank you Amy for coming on the show and sharing this stuff with us.

It was a blast and I love doing stuff with Amy all the time. So it was so much fun.

It's always, it's always fun.

If there's videos that you all have done together, anything else that you alluded to during the show, just, just email me links and I'll put it all in the show notes. And for those of you listening, that's going to be@BenGreenfieldFitness.com BioHackSex that's BenGreenfieldFitness.com BiohackSex so that being said, I'll let you both go. Amy, I know you got a busy day with patience. Susan, you probably have some multi orgasmic technique to go try on your husband or something. Sounds like that's how you, how you live your life. So I'll let both you go. And everybody else, thank you for listening in. I'm Ben Greenfield along with Susan Bratton and Amy Killen signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com have an amazing week. Want more? Go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com where you can subscribe to my information packed and entertaining newsletter and click the link up on the right hand side of that webpage that says Ben Recommends where you'll see a full list of everything I've ever recommended to enhance your body and your brain. Finally, to get your hands on all of the unique supplement formulations that I personally develop. You can visit the website of my company kion@getki I-O-N.com that's get K-I-O-N.com.