Some Of The Craziest Superfoods You’ve Never Heard Of.

Hey folks, it's Ben Greenfield here. I finished a pretty cool book a couple of weeks ago. The name of the book was Finding Ultra and it was written by an ultra endurance athlete who I've actually written about over@BenGreenfieldFitness.com when I talked about how to actually pull off a plant based diet and do it right and still be an incredibly active individual. Well, the guy who is on the line with me right now has been a top finisher at the 08 and 09 Ultraman World Championships in Hawaii. For those of you who don't know what that is, it's basically a three day double Ironman. He's also done the EPIC 5 challenge, which is essentially five Ironman triathlons in five days on the islands of Hawaii in under a week. And he's done a lot of other things too. He was a competitive swimmer way back in the 80s at Stanford University and is doing quite a bit in the whole realm of plant based nutrition for athletes. And I wanted to get him on today to talk about his journey and what he's up to and how he pulls all this off on a plant based diet. Rich Roll is on the call with me. Rich, how you doing?

Hey Ben, how's it going? Thanks for having me.

Yeah, no problem. And you know, in, in reading your book, you, you outline quite the journey that you've had, you know, from your competitive swimming days at Stanford to kind of going full circle and coming back. You know what, you obviously run a lot, you know, as an ultra runner and you've done well in triathlon too. But you know, you've got kind of a cool story in terms of what triggered you to actually start running. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Yeah, sure. Like you said, I was an athlete in college and I had a background in, I guess you could call swimming an endurance sport of sorts. I mean, we were training like four hours a day back then and putting in some pretty big volume in terms of yardage, et cetera. But you know, when that was over, you know, that chapter was closed and my life became about going to law school and getting it, you know, getting a good job and kind of, you know, moving up the corporate ladder and getting married and having kids and all that kind of stuff. And that's all great, but in the interim, you know, I really neglected my health and fitness just really wasn't a part of my life equation at all. And as I neared my 40th birthday, it kind of started to catch up to me. I put on quite a bit of weight. And more importantly, I just felt lousy, like all the time. I had no energy and I didn't have energy to play with my kids and all that kind of stuff. And had a little bit of an epiphany and decided I needed to really address how I was living, how I was eating, and change it up. So I made some pretty drastic changes that weren't exactly overnight, but in a relatively short period of time. Went from kind of being pretty much a junk food junkie. I mean, my whole sort of approach to nutrition had been informed as a child. And when I was swimming all that, all the time, doing double workouts and the like, it's just about calories, like how much food can I shove down my face in the shortest amount of time? And those habits kind of stuck with me later in life, even though I wasn't swimming, you know, 15, 20,000 yards a day anymore. And they were hard habits to break because I just always lived that way. But I ended up experimenting with vegetarianism and veganism, a plant based diet, and found a way to really make it work for me. And I really believe that it revitalized me tremendously. And that's really what kick started my interest in resuming a fitness regimen. It was the energy that I got from changing my diet that spawned kind of the whole move into getting fit again. It wasn't like I started working out and was looking for a way to improve that and change my diet. Really, the diet was the precursor to getting fit.

Gotcha. So in terms of adopting a vegan diet, why did you choose that diet? What inspired you to go that direction versus doing any number of other options on the face of the planet when it comes to a diet?

You know, I wish I could tell you that I read a bunch of books and made a scientific decision that this was the best for me, but that's just not what happened. I mean, in truth, what happened was my wife, who she was by no means 100% vegan or anything like that, but she always ate better than me. And the very avid yoga practitioner and she's into all sorts of alternative modalities of eating and healing and all that kind of stuff, which was never my scene at all. But something happened to her that really impacted me, which was that she had a cyst on her neck that had grown into it was bigger than a golf ball. It was kind of in between the size of a golf ball and a tennis ball, but it almost looked like a goiter on her neck. And we went to UCLA and Cedars Sinai and had all these doctors check it out. And the unanimous opinion was that it was not malignant, it was a benign growth, but it was going to continue to grow and it was never going to go away. Like, at some point in the near future, it was going to have to be surgically removed. And it was not a small procedure because there's a lot of nerves around the growth and there was some attachment to her vertebrae. And she had had a really bad experience with having her tonsils removed and ended up in the hospital for like a month on a liquid diet. It was kind of a botched procedure, so she was in no rush to go on the knife again. And she decided she was going to try to heal herself. And she sought out the advice of an Ayurvedic doctor and brought home all sorts of crazy concoctions.

You said Ayurvedic?

Ayurvedic, yeah, gotcha. And she brought home all these putrid smelling herbs and strange paste and all this sort of stuff, and was taking the advice of this doctor and stuck with this for the better part of a year, like nine or 10 months, during which time, myself included her family members, everybody was saying, this is crazy, and like, look, we got to just get this thing cut out and, you know, what are you doing? And, you know, I tried to support her as best I could, but I also, you know, was concerned and. But sure enough, she stuck with it and it went completely away and has never returned. And the Western doctors were baffled by this. And so that made it. That really impacted me. It was the first time I'd ever seen somebody heal themselves in a way that was different than what I was used to. And it kind of told me that if you give the body certain things, that it will respond in kind. And so when it came time for me to switch it up, you know, I sought out her advice. And she had done a bunch of detox cleanses, none of which I was interested in, but I was kind of desperate at the time and I needed to do something drastic. So I ended up doing like a seven day detox. Fruit and juice, you know, fruit and vegetable juice cleanse with all these weird teas and stuff like that. And ended up feeling very revitalized at the end of that. And when that was over, of course you have to resume eating food. And I'm a kind of a black and white kind of guy. Like, if you were to tell me, like, well, you just have to start eating better or, you know, why don't you go to the gym once in a while? Like, it doesn't really work for me. Like I needed something I could wrap my brain around and the idea of being vegetarian just seemed like something I could process mentally. It was like, well, you're either eating meat or you're not. Like it's a black and white thing. And so it was, it was sort of a step that I was willing to take and explore. And so that was kind of my first introduction to doing this. And it was not an experiment that went well. Like, like I said, I didn't really do any, any research. And it wasn't long before I'm eating Domino's pizzas and you know, eating French fries all the time and you know, well, I'm vegetarian and I'm healthy, right? But you know, of course I was eating horribly and my energy levels plummeted and the weight wasn't coming off and I was ready to just sort of bag it all together. But I thought after six months of that, I thought, well, I wonder what would happen if I just got rid of the dairy and the processed foods, you know, maybe that would work. And I almost did it as a dare to my wife because I didn't think that it would make any difference. But within seven to 10 days I felt dramatically better and the energy levels that, that I was experiencing were similar to what I had felt in the latter days of doing that week long cleanse. And so I knew I was onto something that was working for me. And so from there then I began to educate myself and I've just continued on this path. So I really kind of stumbled into it accidentally, but it's worked, it works very well for me and I continue to refine it and I continue to learn. I'm certainly not the be all end all experts on it, but I tried to read up as best I can and continue to make improvements on it. So would I be a better or worse athlete if I was on a paleo diet, for example? I can't answer that question because I haven't performed that experiment on myself, but because my life changed so dramatically and for the better by doing this. I sort of feel a weird kind of, you know, not to get too new agey on you or anything like that, but I almost feel like I want to continue to honor that by, you know, walking this path forward with it.

Makes sense. So, you know, you've obviously, I would imagine, kind of come a long way since you first started eating a vegan diet, but at this point, can you Walk us through what a typical day of nutrition looks like for you.

Yeah, sure. And I talk about this in the book quite a bit. I do a whole day in the life thing in the appendices. But usually my go to thing really is my Vitamix blender. I end up doing two, if not three blended drinks a day. So I usually start the day with a blended drink that's high on greens. I like to blend kale and some beets and beet greens with some fruit like some berries or some pineapple or an apple, carrot, celery, things like that. I'm not wed to any singular recipe. A lot of times it just depends on what I happen to have in the refrigerator, you know, what's fresh and the like. But I usually, that's sort of the basis of my breakfast. If I'm feeling particularly run down or hungry, maybe I'll have a bowl of quinoa with berries. Like quinoa, which is a very high protein plant based food, works well as a breakfast cereal. So I'll eat that with almond milk or coconut milk with some berries and maybe some hemp seeds or flaxseeds on it. So that's usually like my morning routine. And then I'll, you know, I'll do a morning workout when I, when I come back. You know, it's about replenishing the glycogen stores and getting the electrolytes, etc. So I'll have typically water and coconut water which is great for electrolytes and low glycemic, high carbohydrate food like yams or maybe some brown rice with some stir fried vegetables or a veggie burrito or something like that. Lunch is usually, I'll usually eat relatively light, like maybe a big salad. And I like beans, I eat lots of beans which are also relatively high in protein. So again, you know, veggie burritos or.

And I would imagine you are just doing like, you aren't doing just like, like canned beans, right?

No, I mean, but you know, you could buy a sack, a giant sack of black beans for pretty cheap. You know, in la there's the, you know, the sort of REO markets all over the place, the Mexican markets where you can buy a lot of that stuff in bulk. And in a pinch, if I'm in town and I'm working, I'm not averse to going to a Mexican taco stand or whatever and just getting a veggie burrito or something like that. That's usually what lunch is about. And then Dinner is more of the same. Sometimes I'll a good thing that I do that I think is helpful for me kind of keeping hunger at day. And you know, again, if I'm at work or driving around and there isn't, you know, a viable healthy option at my fingertips is I'll make a blended Vitamix drink in the morning and I'll thermos it and bring it with me wherever I'm going during the day, which, so I'll take hits off that and kind of drink that in the afternoon to keep my energy levels high. And then, you know, dinner is, you know, again, I like lentils, quinoa, stir fried vegetables, you know, broccoli, spinach, asparagus, Brussels sprouts. I mean, you know, it's pretty. I think people think if you're on a plant based diet, it's so restrictive and like what could you possibly be eating? But you know, there really are a tremendous number of options so I don't get bored. And you know, I'm lucky. My wife's a great cook, so she's always coming up with new recipes, you know, vegan lasagna with eggplants and all sorts of things like that. So we try to keep it fresh and we try to keep it simple too. I mean, we don't get crazy with these recipes that are super time consuming.

Right. And it seems like you're also not doing lots of tofu and whole wheat bread and stuff like that either.

No, I mean, I try to. I don't eat. I'm not a huge advocate of soy, but I do like I'll eat tempeh or fermented versions of soy, but I try to stay away from eating too much tofu and instead of soy milk, drink almond milk or coconut milk.

Now what about when you head out for like, I know you do, for example, like lots of long runs or races, like ultra running races. I mean, are you doing what you hear a lot of folks doing? You know, like the Born to Run book talked about the Tamil Mahara Indian tribe doing chia seed slurries and pinole and you know, these type of things or, you know, what's your go to food for a long workout that kind of satisfies your personal nutrition criteria.

Right. I mean, I have played around with that stuff, but a lot of it is time consuming to prepare some of that stuff and quite frankly, like I just don't, I don't have the time, you know, like I'm that was a professional athlete and wasn't married with Kids, maybe I'd spend more time like concocting, you know, some crazy recipes to take out on long runs. But you know, I don't always have that luxury. And so, you know, generally what I will do is I rely on maltodextrin based liquid nutrition for longer rides and runs. So Perpetuum or Carbo Pro or Carbo Pro 1200, which I like, which has electrolytes in it, but kind of a lower glycemic food source that's easily digestible when you're running is usually my mainstay. If I'm going really long, the last like hour and a half or you know, maybe sometimes two hours, I'll start going to higher glycemic foods. And I try to stay away from the sugary gels and stuff like that. But you know, they have their place. And especially if you're going long and you know, you're in that last 45 minutes or whatever and you need a kick, you know, I'm not, I'm not averse to, you know, sucking on a gel or two to spike the, spike the blood sugar, but I try not to rely on those too heavily.

So for people who may, you know, have this image of you running around like chomping on a carrot While you're running 50 miles through the mountains, that's not the case.

No, no, no, no. I mean, yeah. When you're running, I mean it's hard to digest food, you know, and so I like to keep it liquid. It's not, I can't, you know, be eating whole foods when I'm out running. Although you, you hear about those, you know, the hundred mile races and the like where they have their aid stations are like pizza. You know, people just stop for 45 minutes and have an entire meal and then, you know, head on their way again.

Yeah. Do you do stuff like that at all?

No, I haven't done stuff like that.

I haven't. Okay, gotcha. Seems like it'd be a real gut bomb.

Right. And then the other thing I'll do sometimes is again when I'm going long is, you know, I'll add a little bit of EFA oil to the maltodextrin like Udo369 or Vega EFA oil or something like that for, you know, just some additional calories.

Right, so you'll just mix that in with a maltodextrin powder, like a few tablespoons or whatnot of a, of an oil.

Yeah, exactly. And I'll put it, I mean, you Know that Malta stuff isn't the best. It's not the best tasting stuff in the world. You know, kind of like pancake batter. You know, a good tip that I like to do is I'll freeze the bottles overnight so they thaw slowly when you're out running so they don't get all goopy and hot, gross. Or just add a little fruit juice or something like that to kind of take the edge off the flavor.

Gotcha. Now it seems like it could be potentially challenging to eat a vegan diet. What have you found to be the most challenging components in terms of finding the foods that you want or fulfilling the specific nutrient or vitamin or mineral needs and that type of thing?

I think that now it's so, you know, routine for me that I don't find it that challenging. The only time that I, that I, you know, find it somewhat, I wouldn't say difficult, but, you know, a little more kind of time consuming is when I'm traveling or in a work context when I have to go to, you know, business lunches and business dinners and things like that. You know, I live in Los Angeles, so I'm lucky that, you know, there's whole foods are everywhere and natural markets are everywhere and a lot of restaurants, you know, cater to plant based nutrition. So it's pretty easy to kind of order around the menu. Wherever you are, people are pretty open to it. But, you know, I'm sympathetic to people that live elsewhere where that's not the case. And you know, when I'm traveling, I have to plan ahead a little bit. I got to find out where the supermarket is that sells, you know, the things that I need to get and I'll, you know, go from the airport directly there before I go to my hotel room. And that's, there's, you know, little things like that that require a little bit more forethought, I guess. But you know, I've been able to make it work. And you know, when I'm at home, I don't, I don't see it being that challenging at all. You know, another thing is, you know, when I'm. When I'm going into town for work or whatever, and I know I'm going to be someplace for lunch where I'm not going to get what I need or it's going to be more challenging. You know, maybe once or twice a week my wife and I will cook up a bunch of lentils or some beans and rice or some salad or something like that and put it in big Tupperware containers. In the fridge so I can pack some of that with me and I have it in my car and I can eat it before I walk into a restaurant where I know I'm not going to be able to get exactly what I want or I have to eat light because it's a steakhouse or something like that. But I've kind of got it down to a routine right now where it works pretty well.

Right. Kind of along the same lines when it comes to challenges facing vegans and fulfilling nutritional needs. A lot of folks say that you may have a hard time getting enough fatty acids or getting enough amino acids. Have you found that to be the case? And if so, do you have kind of like your personal go to fat sources and protein sources that you use to make sure that you're not missing out on that stuff?

Yeah, sure. I mean I think when I first started and you know, I was very worried about, you know, am I getting my protein and you know, am I getting my, all that kind of stuff that, you know, I get asked all the time and was definitely on my mind a lot and I, and so I had all sorts of supplements, you know, because I was terrified. I wasn't, I wasn't feeding myself properly. And over the years I kind of slowly weaned myself off of most of that stuff just to see what kind of difference it would make and, and how my body would respond. And I found that for the most part I can do without protein powders and all the sorts of stuff that we take. I mean when I'm training hard, I'll take some plant based protein powder, maybe some l Glutamine, but I really don't overdo it on that kind of stuff in terms of getting your amino acids. As long as I'm eating, eating a well rounded plant based diet and I'm conscious of making sure that I'm getting the plant based foods that are, that have a higher protein content. I'm fine and I haven't really experienced any issues with regard to building lean muscle mass or recovering in between workouts.

What type of plant are those for you? Like for amino acids?

Like I said before, quinoa beans, dark, dark leafy greens are also good. Spirulina or spirulina. Is also like, has the highest protein content by weight of like any food on earth. So. And I've also found that, you know, I don't, I don't really feel like I need more than 10% of my calories to come from protein sources. Even when I'm training Hard, like I've played around with it and I seem to do just fine, whether I'm getting 10 or 20%, unless I'm feeling super run down and then in which case I'll up it a little bit. But I've kind of come to realize that the whole protein question is a little bit overblown. You know, I mean, there's a lot of marketing dollars into pushing this idea that protein, protein, protein. And certainly you've probably read more studies than I have, so I don't want to sneak out of school. I mean, you're very well versed in all these matters. But just speaking from personal experience, I found that I don't need to overdo it with protein supplements as long as I'm eating a well rounded diet.

Gotcha.

In terms of fats, other books out there about plant based nutrition like the China Study and Engine 2 Diet, and they all kind of preach a very low fat, no oil plant based regimen. And that does not work for me. I find that especially when I'm training that I need the added fat. So I like avocado. I eat lots of avocados and lots of nuts. Hemp seeds are great.

When you say you eat hemp seeds, are you just popping them or do you put them in foods or a little bit of everything?

Well, I'll put hemp seeds in my Vitamix blend and I'll put walnut things like walnuts, chia seeds, pumpkin seeds, hemp seeds, sesame seeds are all pretty high in omega 3s and so I'll blend those in my smoothie blends and drink them. And that's worked well for me. And then I'll use, you know, I cook with olive oil or coconut oil and I like olive oil, you know, base salad dressings. Hemp oil is also great. And like I said before, the Udo's 369 or the Vega EFA oil are also both great. So I do use quite a bit of that stuff.

Okay, gotcha. Cool. So it sounds like, sounds like you're really not having too hard of a time finding some of these protein and fat sources readily available.

No, I mean, I haven't, you know, I haven't had, I haven't had any real issues. And you know, I'm not. The other thing is that I'm not trying to adhere to some kind of label. Like if I felt like my body, you know, needed something that it wasn't getting, you know, I'm not averse to, you know, eating an animal product in order to get that, like, you know, I want to perform well as an athlete and I want to be healthy, but I just, I haven't found it necessary. And I'm on, coming on, you know, coming up on six years of doing this. So, you know, that could change. I could wake up tomorrow and feel anemic or something like that. But so far, so good.

Now, how about supplements? Are you using supplements? Like, do you have certain kind of standby supplements that you use on a daily basis?

A couple. And like I said, I don't overdo it. I do like taking a plant based protein supplement post workout. Not after every workout, but maybe a couple times a week when I'm training hard. And usually I like to combine hemp protein, brown rice protein, and pea protein, which gives you a pretty robust amino acid profile. Hemp protein is great and I love it, but it has some bioavailability issues. So I found that it works better when I combined it with other proteins. And then I'll take L glutamine as well. And then I like to play around with some more exotic kind of stuff. I have a good friend who's. His name is Compton Rom and he's sort of been my nutritional guru. He has a holistic health company called Ascended Health and he lives close to me. And he's always coming up with these strange concoctions. I'll say, come on over to my house. I brewed this thing up. You got to try it. Let me know how you feel. And he sources ingredients from all over the world to make these crazy potions. And so, yeah, it's fantastic. He'll be like, oh, I just got this crazy potent resveratrol and it's made from the finest Bordeaux, you know, grape skins. It just came in from France. Like, I want to, you know, make you some drinks with it. So I'm lucky that I'm lucky to have him to be like his guinea pig. So he likes to play around with me and I get to, you know, use some really great products. So what's his name?

Does he have a website or is he just doing this stuff as a hobby?

Yeah, no, no, no. His name is Compton Rom and his company is called Ascended Health. His website's ascended health.com.

I'Ll put a link. And I'm not, folks.

I have no, I have no, you know, financial interest in what he. He's just a friend. And he's a PhD. He's a PhD in microbiology. He really knows his stuff. And, you know, a lot of the stuff he makes for me isn't commercially available anyway. But he does have some pretty cool products if, you know, you want to check it out, like probiotics and stuff like that.

Yeah. Awesome. So just a few other questions for you because I read an interesting article in which you listed some superfoods that were uncommon superfoods. And I thought it'd be fun to mention some of the superfoods that you kind of turn to now and again that folks may not have heard of, but that have really helped you do things like not get sick and kind of break the ceiling in terms of your physical potential. Potential. So one thing that I have seen you mentioned is natto. Do you do much natto or did you find like, are you getting natto at Whole Foods or.

I don't, I don't do it that often because it's so awful. Quite honestly, I've had it once. If it tasted a little bit better, I'd probably be eating it all the time. But it's, it's is very much an acquired taste. It tastes like a very putrid cheese. It's extremely healthy and it's great for heart health and preventing circulatory disease. So if you're concerned about your heart or you want to send off a heart attack, I highly suggest checking it out. But you might want to plug your nose when you're eating it.

Gotcha.

Okay, so I like that.

What about another one I've seen you mention is cordyceps.

Yeah, I love cordyceps and that's something that Compton turned me onto. And I've really, I've incorporated that as a regular supplement into my routine. And it's a very strange sort of dried fungus that grows on caterpillar larva only at high altitudes in like rural regions of China and Nepal. Stuff. And you can import this stuff and you can get it in a dried powder format. I've been combining that with plant based proteins as a recovery drink. And there's studies to suggest that it helps with oxygen uptake and oxygen utilization. And I definitely feel better when I'm using it. I believe in it. I think it's a, a very potent supplement and I think that I've benefited from using it. So, yeah, that's definitely one to check out.

How about turmeric? I've seen that you use turmeric.

Turmeric is great. Yeah, I love that. It's a super powerful antioxidant and it's readily available. It comes in like a very bright yellow powder. And when you go and you see fra or something like that. And it's talking about the high antioxidant quality. I mean, if you put a spoonful of turmeric and just make a tea out of it in the morning, that's like a thousand fold more potent than, you know, a lot of the sort of promoted antioxidant supplements that are currently on the market. And it's simple, you know, you can buy it in bulk and cheap and it's extremely potent. So that's definitely one that I think I've benefited from using. And I use that, use that one regularly.

I've also been using a ton of that lately, like about one and a half, two grams a day. It's good stuff.

Yeah, yeah.

Apricot seeds. I've seen you talk about apricot seeds. What's up with that?

Yeah, this is highly controversial. And I talked about this on Tim Ferriss blog. There's a little bit of a blowback on that. There was a period in the 1970s when there were some doctors who were promoting the use of apricot seeds as a cancer preventative measure. And there's, there's Western medicine has essentially, I guess, I guess you could say they debunked it. And there's fear because the way that it works, as I understand it, is that when the active ingredient in the apricot seed, which is known as latrial or it's anecdotally called vitamin B17, even though I don't think it's actually a vitamin, when it comes into contact with a cancer cell, there's a physiological response that occurs that from what I understand releases like a cyanide component that effectively destroys the cancer cell. And healthy cells don't have the enzyme that's catalyzes this so that it doesn't have any deleterious effect on a healthy cell. There's a lot of people that say this is nonsense and that it's actually dangerous to take this because of this cyanide component. But there's also a large group of alternative medicine practitioners who continue to promote the benefits of this. And there are certainly people out there that claim that they have, that they have had fantastic effects by incorporating apricot seeds into their diet. So it's certainly nothing that I would suggest somebody megadose on. But you know, I'm not, I'm not averse to blending these in my Vitamix and incorporating them into my diet. And I've never experienced any problems personally from this. But it certainly is controversial. And you know, and you know, you Might want to look into it before you just do that.

I've heard the same kind of silly argument about raw almonds and cyanide. Right.

I mean, the latrial that they talk about is contained in almonds. And if you eat almond butter, then are you mega dosing on that?

I don't know. Anyway, okay, how about. We hear a lot of times about coffee as an antioxidant, but you talk about green coffee beans.

Yeah, green coffee beans are great. They're very anti inflammatory and antioxidants. And the thing about the green bean is that by not roasting it, it's been suggested that there's a benefit in weight management because. How do I say this? The chlorogenic acid, which I believe is destroyed by the roasting process increases your body's ability to metabolize fats.

Gotcha. Interesting.

There's a lot of people that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it doesn't, I will say that it doesn't taste like coffee. It tastes very different than coffee, but you can grind it just the same. You just grind the bean, the green beans in your grinder and you prepare it in the French just like you would normal coffee.

I used to work at a coffee shop and I drink that stuff all the time. It's kind of a nice mix up from regular coffee. Now, testosterone, I know that you personally don't really use animal products, but you did mention that as far as testosterone goes, that there is a relatively humane animal source of being able to get it, and that's elk antler velvet. Is that something you've kind of seen work in folks in terms of testosterone?

Yeah, I have. And again, going back to my friend Compton, he's always talking about how amazing this product is. And personally I don't use it because I don't incorporate animal products into my diet. But I know people that have used it and swear by it. And Compton will go to his deathbed telling you that it's a fantastic supplement to use. And essentially what it is is they do this in Canada and New Zealand primarily, but they remove the antlers from the elk. And I'm told that this is a relatively humane process and that these antlers need to be removed to prevent these elk from attacking each other. Whether or not that's true, I don't know. There are certainly animal rights activists that would tell you that it's not humane, whereas other people say that it is. So I'll let you do your own research onto that. But what they do is they sort of take the cartilage from the antler and they dry it and ground it into a powder. And it's been concluded in certain studies that incorporating this into your diet has an effect on boosting testosterone levels. So it's interesting. There are a lot of bodybuilders that use it. If you were to Google Alkantler Velvet, I'm sure you'll find lots of stories, anecdotal and scientific studies as well that will go into the details of it.

Yeah, it's not one that I've personally tried, but I've certainly seen some of those same studies. I want to ask you about one more because I kind of like this one. So you write about it almost looks like a happy fruit. Camu for reducing cortisol and increasing the uptake of serotonin. What is that stuff and how do you get it?

I end up getting this and you can get it in powdered supplement form. I think Navitas Naturals makes it so you can pick that up at Whole Foods and just put a tablespoon of that into your smoothie, which is what I do often because it is difficult to actually find the fruits. But yeah, it's a pretty potent sort of lemon sized, orangish, purplish fruit that comes from the Amazon. So it is relatively exotic. But it's packed with all sorts of amino acids and phytochemicals and minerals and beta carotene. So it's pretty impressive. I think it has the highest natural vitamin C density of any food on the planet. That's what I believe. So I believe I've read that. So yeah, check that out too.

Nice. Obviously for you folks listening in Rich Roll is a wealth of information. I'll try and put some links in the show notes too, some of the stuff that he's talked about. But his book is called Finding Ultra and actually it's got kind of a. Kind of a cool subtitle. The subtitle is Rejecting Middle Age, Becoming One of the World's Fittest Men and Discovering Myself. I'd recommend that you check it out. I'll put a link to it in the show notes. It's a great book. And I'll also put a link to the previous article I wrote on plant based diets in which I also wrote a little bit about Rich and what he's doing. So highly recommend you check out his stuff, folks. And Rich, thank you so much for coming on the call today.

Thanks man. It's great to talk to you.