The Future Of Medical Biohacking: Skull Resets, Suppositories, Nasal Sprays, Nebulizers, Sound Therapy & More With Dr. John Lieurance.

My name is Ben Greenfield, and on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life.

Podcast, it's almost like an IV to go, so you can put in a suppository in and it's like you're hooked up to an IV for the next seven hours.

Like a very potent antioxidant that you might be just blunting your medic response to exercise, hermetic response to stressors, kind of blunting the body's own endogenous antioxidant production. Could you theoretically be making yourself weaker?

You know, I was using it and it's a very strong effect when you inhale it in the powder. But again, like you said, you feel good afterwards. And there was something to it. I really had to take a dive into it. And what I figured out is that.

That faith, family, fitness, health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the show. Hey, what's up? It's Ben Greenfield. I'm on the road. Thus, today I am releasing to you a special podcast episode. It is a re release, but it's a re release of an interview with one of my favorite and incredibly intriguing smart physicians out there, guy named Dr. John Laurence. John, man. Since I interviewed him in the episode you're about to hear, I've delved into his products, his freaking like liposomals and his nasal sprays and his suppositories. He's a total unicorn of a doctor, lives down in Sarasota, Florida. If you haven't connected with this guy or seen his content, you need to. It's amazing. He's one of my good pals and he's just got a really unique mind. I think you're gonna enjoy this interview. If you didn't hear the first time, then, man, you're in for wild ride. If you heard it the first time, you're gonna refresh yourself and learn some things that you may have not picked up on during the first show, but I've still just been so connected to John since this initial interview and found a great, great deal of success with his products and what he does and him just as a person. So I hope you enjoy this show. Let's do this. Oh, and by the way, the show notes for everything you're about to hear today. They're going to be@BenGreenfieldFitness.com Melatonin podcast that's BenGreenfieldFitness.com Melodynamics podcast. So I'm out in the forest right now. I'm not literally in the forest. I'M in a tiny, tiny little house, little cottage out in the forest, out in my forest, out on my land here in Spokane, Washington. And I had a guest arrive at my doorstep a couple of days ago. And he arrived as like the Santa Claus of natural medicine. He had like this stuff he called holy water with him and ozonated toothpaste and cacao and coffee infused CBD and all manner of crazy medical hacks. He's been blowing my mind for the past couple of days. He's actually been blowing my mind for the past couple months because I've known this cat for a few months now. He shipped these wonderful and weird formulations to my house and everybody that I've connected him with has equally had their minds blown. Not to overuse that phrase. With his level of knowledge and the very unique approach he has to delivering nutrients to your body, to working with a wide variety of conditions, he's just steeped in this stuff. He absolutely loves it. And I'm incredibly honored and pleased to have met him because now I can introduce him to you. And he's about to blow your mind with some pretty cool stuff. His name is Dr. John Laurence and John is a naturopathic physician. He's also a chiropractic neurologist. He's been in private practice in Florida for over the past couple of decades. He's the chief scientific advisor of a couple of companies, Glutagenic, and a real, real wizard on glutathione. You're going to hear a lot more about that because that's part of what that company is about. And also Advanced Biome Corp. Where he also creates some very unique formulas and has a very, very cool approach. His clinic is called Advanced Rejuvenation. He treats chronic disease, regenerative medicine. He does functional neurology, which we'll get into functional medicine, stem cell research, and some of the things that he specializes in include Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, autoimmune disease, Lyme, sers, mold illness. He himself has his own pretty interesting story about dealing with chronic Lyme and mold himself that he'll get into. But ultimately, I think you guys are really going to love to meet Dr. John Lawrence and everything that we talk about you can find@BenGreenfieldFitness.com DoctorJohn like D, R, J, O H N. BenGreenfieldFitness.com Doctor John and by the way, right now I feel like my brain is going a million miles an hour. It's like clear as a bell. And I'm pretty sure Whatever you gave me to snort up my nose prior to this podcast must have just been like, liquid lsd, because I feel absolutely amazing right now.

That's great to hear. Yeah, I'm feeling the same way.

Yeah, you took some too. Yeah, I did. Yeah. So you guys are going to learn about all his old nasal sprays. And actually, let's speak about another orifice first, though, because this is actually how I met you, John. This package arrived at my house full of suppositories, which I think, as of now, have become mildly famous because I've talked about them a few times before on the podcast, these melatonin suppositories. And, you know, I've taken melatonin before. I've done sublingual melatonin and time release melatonin capsules, 5 milligrams, 10 milligrams. And this, this was like a high dose, high, high dose melatonin suppository that I have been using since then, especially for international travel. You shove one of those bad boys up your ass and you're just, like, dead to the world. Your circadian rhythm is rebooted, but there's actually a lot more to melatonin I know you want to get into. So before we talk about putting things up your ass and the select number of things that one can do that with, and suppositories in general and nasal sprays and everything else, I want to know about you and where you came from, basically how you got into this whole world and your unique approach.

Yeah, well, first of all, I'd like to thank you for having me here as a guest. And, you know, for those that you know, I've been listening to your podcast for years and very impressed. I've learned a lot, and it's. It's helped me in my own journey, you know, to explore a lot of things that you might not be exposed to otherwise, and to come out to your house and just see this, the setup that you have here, all the biohacks, but just even more importantly, the person you are, you know, and the way you're raising your family and your kids, your dogs are even amazing, you know, your wife, Jessa, you know, just absolutely amazing. Everybody that's listening needs to know, like, Ben Greenfield's the real deal.

Like, he is the real deal. I gotta ask you, though, and then you can continue your story. Of all the little things you've. You've had a chance to try since you got here, what's your favorite?

Well, so let me. Let me run down the list of everything I've done just this morning.

Okay, go ahead.

So. So I've done a hyperbaric. I drank hydrogen water before getting in there, and then I did a juv. Light, like, 20 minutes while I was breathing some nano V. And then I did a bioenergy.

Biochar.

The biochar. I've done that twice now. Okay. And just this morning. Just this morning. Then we did a workout together, right? I mean, it's just. Yeah.

It's only 10:45am yeah. Yeah. And so we'll finish this up. We'll get frisbee golf. We got a bunch of other doctors coming over the house tonight to geek out on more medicine and biohacking. But in terms of your background, you actually had an illness that kind of got you exploring some of these deeper, darker fringes of natural medicine.

Yeah, well, I started out in life with some challenges. If anyone wants to look up Camp Lejeune, it's a marine base, and they.

Have been talking about Camp Lejeune in North Carolina.

Yeah. Yeah.

Gosh, I've been there. I did a triathlon there.

Yeah.

I did an internship at Duke University, and so I did, like, every triathlon I could find in North Carolina during that time.

Did you drink the water?

We were competing at Camp Lejeune. I'm sure I must have swam in it.

Well, you know, from like, 1965 to 1985, it was just absolutely terrible. They had up to 3,500 times the normal safety contamination limits on just a whole list of different toxins and radioactive material and so forth. And so my mother, you know, I was in utero during that period of time, and then my first two years of life, and I've always been a little challenged. You know, a lot of asthma and allergies, and, you know, eventually I was put in basically learning disability classes. And this was in Hawaii. Right. So.

So you actually grew up in Hawaii? So we.

Yeah, moved out to Hawaii when I was 7. My dad was a Marine and lived there all the way through, you know, college. And so it was an awesome place to grow up, but it wasn't so awesome to be in special education classes there, because they lumped everybody. Either you're normal, or you're, like, in these basically retard classes, you know, and so, you know, it was challenging in a lot of ways. You know, my self esteem. You know, it was a very difficult time, you know, getting. Getting through that and then. But it gave me a lot of drive. You know, you've got. We have a Mutual friend in common. Dan Pompa.

Yeah.

And Dr. Pompa.

Dr. Dan.

Yeah. He's been on the show, you know, and besides helping me with. With Detox, you know, his products are amazing. He's just a wonderful person as well. And he and I share a lot of similarities with, you know, special education and dyslexia and so forth. And. And, you know, the pain to purpose is just, you know, it really rings for me.

That's his catchphrase. Pain to purpose.

It is. Yeah. And, you know, I think we're all given these challenges in life, you know, and it's like, it's all about how you. How you deal with it, and then, you know, if we grow from it and we learn from it, and then we can move that forward and help other people, you know, and there's been a lot of challenges that I've had that have allowed me to, you know, learned how to overcome them and then help lots of other people with those challenges as well.

The Lyman mold, was that something that developed later on?

Yeah, so that was in, like, 2007, 2008. I just got really sick, and I had no idea what was wrong with me. And it was. It was double challenging because I was, you know, I was already practicing. I had a clinic and the people coming in from all over and, you know, I was supposed to be the guy that had all the answers, but I was just sick, and I was going to all these different doctors, and nobody really knew what. I got diagnosed with Ankylosing spondylitis because I had just severe joint pain. You know, it was so bad that I remember sitting on a bench one time and watching somebody just walk by, and it just like. I didn't even know it was like to walk normally at that time. So it was just so severe. And then I finally tested myself for Lyme, and I tested myself for a variety of viruses, and my Epstein Barr virus was just through the roof. And so I just had multiple infections, which is classic with people with Lyme, because your immune system isn't functioning. And so you just accumulate all these infections.

Oh, yeah. And it was something I've actually been studying up on recently because I've been shocked at the connection that the deeper into this rabbit hole I go between ebv, cytomegalovirus, Lyme, mold, heavy metals, and EMF exposure.

Oh, yeah.

Like, this whole issue. I don't know if you're electro hypersensitive, but those type of CO infections, if that's what you want to call them, tend to be really aggravated by EMF exposure as well.

Well, there's some ideas that aluminum might make the virulence a little bit more. With the viruses, the emf, there's different things. And with mold, too, same thing. They've done some studies where they exposed mold, EMF exposure, and they see that there's a much higher virulence. So, yeah, for people that are challenged with health, I think getting themselves out of WI fi and turning off your WI fi router at night. You've covered this in a lot of your podcasts.

Oh, yeah, we've gone through that. We're staring at a dirty electricity filter right now. This computer's plugged into. And that's the whole EMF thing is a topic for another day. But I certainly think that some specifically, when you look at the voltage gated calcium channels on the cell and the steep influx of calcium that occurs and the impact that has on mitochondria and overall cellular function, then you pair that with an infection or heavy metal or Lyme or a virus, and you're essentially debilitating the body's ability to be able to respond while at the same time weakening its defenses. So, yeah, it's an issue, but we digress. So you were sick with all these issues, but you also have this unique combination being a chiropractic doc and also a naturopathic physician. So how did that all happen?

Well, originally, I graduated from chiropractic school and then started to get involved with functional neurology through the Carrick Institute. It's a very high level of doing specific types of adjustments and different neurological exercises and doing a lot of work with neuroplasticity. You know, so a lot of patients that we treat with this technique where we're not doing as many adjustments as you would think. You know, it's a lot of times people would come and watch these types of procedures and they wouldn't really recognize it as, you know, traditional chiropractic work. But, you know, when you're able to activate the brain in a very specific way, you can create some amazing changes that can really balance neurology and, you know, everything from, like, movement disorders to autoimmune challenges and autonomic dysfunction. You know, all of these things are rooted in neurological challenges.

Give me one hardcore example what you mean when you say activate the brain? We talk about, like, snapping the fingers in front of the face or shoving something in an orifice, as I know you're prone to.

Dr. Well, this is a good example. So, you know, there's something called your vestibular ocular reflex. So whenever your head moves to the right, your eyes actually neurologically are pushed to the left. If you rotate your head, it's torsion and torsion. So there's this yoking between your neck, your eyes and your vestibular, your inner ear. And there's this conversation that's happening between all of these. And so what happens is that that conversation gets skewed. And so the neck muscles and the spinal muscles don't respond appropriately. And so we see this with people where their eyes. So there's, you know, the eyes need to be balanced and if they're not, then there's a lot of musculature throughout the entire spine that can be thrown off. Some of these techniques we've used in some very high level football players. Actually I can't name names, but there's been some super bowl winning quarterbacks that utilize this type of functional neurology to actually continue playing. Yeah.

Wow.

Sid Crosby actually just came out and basically he's like one of the top hockey players ever, right? He came out and he had a traumatic brain injury. And utilizing these types of treatments was able to overcome a very serious deficiency.

But what would be an example of an actual treatment? Like what would be one technique you'd use?

So say somebody has a disturbance in their vestibular ocular reflex. What we might do is we might have them do something called gaze stabilization. So they'll hold their eyes on a target and then they'll move their head in different ways to allow the eye muscle to maintain that vestibular ocular reflex. And some people can't do it. So like for instance, if I took my finger and I moved it back and forth in front of you, that's a smooth pursuit.

Right.

And so there's two main types of eye movements. There's a smooth pursuit and then there's a saccade. A saccade is a fast eye movement. So that fast eye movement should be accurate to a target. And you're constantly either pursuing or saccading to targets in your environment. And when this gets off, then your, your eyes are locking into a target and they don't hold there. And then it slips off. That feeds back into the spot spinal muscles. So you can see that there's going to be a lot of disturbances in your fine motor skills when these things are off. So by basically doing very specific exercises, get your eyes to move appropriately in these different movement patterns. It's hugely beneficial to the brain. Then you also think about all of the energy that the brain would be expending trying to compensate for these deficiencies as well. So just cleaning this stuff up actually allows the brain to function at a higher level.

Something somebody was talking to me about. I forget, I think I was at a clinic and they were saying that a lot of people who get brain fog, fatigue, et cetera, kind of like mid to late afternoon, sometimes earlier, in many cases, they'll find that they have some eye tracking issues or even from a chiropractic standpoint, alignment of some of the sutures in the the skull and things that are actually causing a great deal of stress on the nervous system. Just beginning with the eyes, with that vestibular nerve.

Yeah.

So you're almost like exhausting yourself as your eyes work overtime.

Well, it's interesting you point out about the sutures in the skull because that's my deal with functional cranial release. So it's a technique that I developed probably 15 years ago and I teach it to other doctors. And basically it's a fusion of this functional neurology with this very specific type of cranial work that I think we're going to be doing with your family tomorrow.

Yeah. Well, you told my boys at dinner last night what you wanted to have them do was balance. We have this thing called a slack bow that you balance on. It's like a slack line trainer. And then you wanted them to come off of that you were going to do the adjustment. What do you call it? A endonasal.

It's an endonate specific endonasal balloon manipulation.

Yeah. So I dared them. I think they're both game for it. So tomorrow maybe we'll instagram it for people and put it up if you guys guys want to see it. And if, if I wind up shooting a video, I'll put it in the shownotes@bengreenfieldfitness.com Dr.John so you obviously are an expert in this functional neurology, and I know that's part of your practice. I know you do stem cell therapy, you do exosomes, you do peptides, you do a lot of the things that I've actually talked about on the show before, and I would love to use the time that we have to get into some of the stuff that I haven't had a chance to explore that much in terms of some of these more unique delivery mechanisms and some of the stuff that you specialize in. So let's just go straight back to the suppositories. Why not? Because I know people are on the edge of their seats, pun intended. Wanting to know about these suppositories, let's.

Get to the bottom of it.

Okay, so why suppositories?

All right, so when I was sick, I started to utilize high dose glutathione suppositories. And it was just such a game changer for me that I realized, wow, this is really a very powerful medicine. And what I liked about it was that when I dosed with a suppository, I would have peak plasma, meaning that the substance is in your bloodstream for six to seven hours. Whereas if I do an iv, peak plasma is like for an hour.

Right.

It spikes, it's in your blood and then it's out of your system. So your cells are sitting there trying to absorb, you know, as much nutrients as they can in that short period of time. So I think there's an advantage of lengthening that time and giving the cells more of an opportunity to absorb those nutrients. Plus, you know, if we're talking about glutathione in particular, it's one of the sleep promoting substances along with uridine, and so it's necessary so you can actually get uridine.

People don't talk about uridine a lot. Is that something that glutathione is causing to be released or do you co administer that?

It's another substance, but those are the two sleep promoting substances that really get you to dive deep right away. So glutathione, it really helps with sleep. You can take it in a lot of different. Yeah, well, that's why it's in Sandman.

I was wondering, Sandman being your high dose melatonin suppository that you have. Okay, so the glutathione is not just in there because it's going to help with, with its antioxidant effects while you're asleep or help the body to repair. It's in there because it will actually enhance sleep biology.

Well, all the above. So, you know, we really worked hard on the Sandman to try to put everything that we could to give you true sleep, you know.

What about uridine? You put uridine in there?

No, no, we haven't. But we've experiment with it. Experimented with it? Yeah, but not yet.

Okay, so back to the suppositories. You're getting a slow release via the intra. What's the correct term intra? Rectal absorption.

It's rectal absorption.

So rectal absorption. Common delivery mechanism for a lot of medications. Really it is. If you're not doing, like intravenous administration, for example, but what you're saying is that this peak occurs more gradually and over a longer period of time, so you get a slower bleed of whatever it is that you're putting into your body, into your system.

That's one advantage, but there's more. So another advantage is that you're bypassing the gastric juices and all the enzymes with digestion that can actually harm a lot of these nutrients. And then there's something called first pass through the liver. And basically the liver really breaks everything down and it needs to be put back together on the other side. And so, you know, so when you do an iv, obviously it's, there's, you know, a lot of people go and get IVs because it's just so much more advantage because you're, you're bypassing all these digestive enzymes and.

Yeah, the first pass, all the more. So, by the way, if you, if you have leaky gut or compromised gut, I think it becomes an even bigger issue.

Yeah.

With being able to adequately absorb what you need from food or vitamins or supplements or anything taken orally.

So you also. Yeah, you have an advantage on that side, too. And so with all of that intact, it's almost like an IV to go. So you can put in a suppository in and it's like you're hooked up to an IV for the next seven.

Hours without the needles and having come to your house or something like that.

Yeah. And it's really no big deal. I mean, sometimes people make a big deal. I'm not going to use a suppository or whatever. It's like, get over it. It takes two seconds to put it in. It's very easy and it's there. And usually basically it turns into an oil once it's inserted. Yeah.

These suppositories, when I get them from you, you kind of unwrap them. They're semi solid. I found that if you don't keep them in the refrigerator, they can tend to get almost like too soft to insert. So I keep them in the refrigerator. And correct me if I'm wrong on that.

No, that's the best way to do it.

So keep them in the refrigerator. And then, and then. And I want to get back into what kind of suppositories, aside from glutathione, that you'd recommend, Melatonin that you'd recommend and glutathione. But when you, when you administer these, like, I'm, you know, I have an inversion table and can hang upside down. Sometimes if I'm just in bed and I'm laying on my side, I'll just put it in there and continue laying my side for a little while. But what's, what's the best way to actually put a suppository in for people who haven't done it before?

Well, we've put some science into these suppositories. So sometimes you have to actually put like an oil on them to get them lubricated. This is just lubricated naturally. So, you know, you don't even really need to put your finger in the rectum usually, you know, once the suppository, because it's like kind of a way that it's shaped.

It's just kind of.

Yeah, it's an anti gravity technology.

I have a pretty greasy ass though, too, so it might be me. Oh, man. So, so you, you slip it in and then do you need to. Do you need to go upside down? Like, do you need to invert?

No.

You just. Not at all. Lay there?

No.

Okay.

Yeah. Or you don't. Yeah. I mean, you could sit down for a little while or, you know, I guess it's different for everybody, you know, depending on the tone of their muscles down there or whatnot. If you have decent tone, you know, it just pulls up a couple inches and you don't even know it's there.

Yeah, yeah. And then one other question I was going to ask you because inevitably some of these logistical issues will arise. I know people ask this because some of your suppositories, and we could talk about these, they're kind of like daytime wakefulness, like stuff that you wouldn't necessarily have in you during the night. But if I were to put one of those in in the morning and let's say I need to have a bowel movement in the afternoon, how long does it need to stay in there to get everything that you need out of it? Because I've wondered before, when I've taken a dump a few hours after doing its suppository, obviously the suppository comes out. But how long should it actually stay in there?

Well, it's going to continue to release for, you know, five to seven hours. So if you do have a bowel movement, you are going to lose some, but it's still worth doing, you know, I mean, if you're going to do something like say like the neurodiol, right. The high dose cbd, do that in the, in the daytime, you know, usually no problem.

But if you have, there's no way I could do a high dose CBD suppository. In the daytime. I get super drowsy cbd. But you've got another one that's called. Is it Lusitol?

Oh yeah, Lusitol, yeah, yeah.

And what's in that one?

Well, Lusitol has a lot of polyphenols in it. One of the most important one is the fezzatin. So it's really good for the brain inflammation and, and it's a senolytic. Right. So you take it. You could take it. We have some fasting protocols where we're working on where we use that product to really kick in that, that senescence, you know, to clear out the senescent cells.

Yeah. I actually wrote about Facetin, but how do you pronounce it? Facetin?

Phasetin.

Phasetin. I pronounce it Facetin, but I bastardize almost everything because I read so much. The anti aging properties of it are pretty compelling. Incredible. Quercetin is one that a lot of people talk about, but fisetin, I'm saying it like you do, kind of flies under the radar, but yeah, it's a very, very helpful molecule. So some of your suppositories are daytime, in which case, ideally someone should wait to put them in until they've had say like a morning bowel movement and then put it in and try to. If you can not have another bowel movement for like five to seven hours. If you want to get everything that you want out of it.

Right. Yeah, that's, that's ideal.

Okay, got it. So. So you've got the kind of like the plant based antioxidant cellular senescence one that you would do during the daytime. And that one's called again Lucitol Sandman is the melatonin. Then you have a glutathione.

Yeah, that's glutamax.

Glutamax. And then what else? What other suppositories are there?

Well, we've got the stem tour, which is the MTOR activator. So it's good for people that, you know, for working out. Like everybody's all focused on inhibiting mtor, but MTOR is actually hungry and libido.

Less and skinny their whole lives.

Yeah, I mean it's all about balancing it. You know, it's like you want to activate it, you want to inhibit, you know, so it's something that you take pre or post workout and get a little bit extra repair.

Okay.

You know, through the MTOR pathway.

I Want to get back to a few other more subtle nuances of the ingredients? First of all, most of the suppositories, when I'm looking at the label, you also have bacteria in them. Tell me about the bacterial part, because I'm trying to figure out, like, can you actually reseed? I mean, obviously we know about fecal microbiota transplants and the ability to be able to populate via the rectum, the biome of the colon, but are you kind of going after the same thing with these bacteria, or is there a different reason that they'd be in there?

Well, you know, that's where you want your bacteria. You don't want it in the small intestine. You know, you want it in the large intestine. So we were aiming towards improving the microbiome, but we were also looking at specific strains that would assist in the absorption of various ingredients.

Okay, that's what I was wondering.

Yeah, so we kind of worked on those. And so we have a couple of different strain combinations that we're utilizing. You know, one that's more for, like, glutathione and antioxidants, and then another one that's more on the cbd, hemp absorption.

What would be an example of a probiotic strain that you'd use?

Well, we. We don't disclose that. Those are proprietary.

Okay, yeah, that's fine. That's fine. You can just hold it close to your chest. Nobody listens to this podcast anyways, bro. This is just you and me chatting now. Melatonin. Melatonin is one that I want to hone in on a little bit because I find that particularly fascinating.

Yeah.

We are recording this podcast during lockdown, which you are actually breaking government orders by not sheltering in place down in Florida and being in my house. Just so you know, that was a very risky plane ride you went on.

To come up here, and you may.

And you may die some soon.

It was interesting, you know, it was almost apocalyptic, you know, flying out here.

Yeah, yeah. Well, we were laughing last night. I'm like the green. The Greenfield house said in all humbleness, I think, that if someone were to get sick, I've gotten more here at the house. From anti malarials to kercitin to ozone to, you know, nebulized glutathione, which we'll talk about later. Hyperbaric, to where you could probably receive better treatment than you get at a hospital.

Oh, hands down.

Yeah.

The hospital.

Well, yeah, we gotta be careful we don't get banned from the YouTube.

Yeah. The feds are making their rounds right now, so we've got to be very careful.

But anyways, melatonin is being talked about right now as a possible and pretty potent antiviral. And there are a lot of other things going on with melatonin. So talk to me a little bit about what people might not know about melatonin in particular. And just to couch this in proper terms for people, one of your suppositories is like 100 milligrams of melatonin, 200 milligrams. All right, so get into melatonin and also the safety and efficacy of using a high dose like that. Because I get people are like, I'm gonna shut down my own melatonin production. I'm gonna throw off my circadian biology. So go ahead and riff on melatonin for a while for me.

All right, so great question, great questions. And so one interesting study they did on oral absorption of melatonin, they found that there's only 3% absorption, so it's not absorbed very well. But melatonin is the primary antioxidant. I mean, it's like at the top of the chain. And one of the things that it does is it protects your mitochondria under stress. What's really interesting is they did a study early on, in the early days of melatonin, and they were looking at different aspects with animal models, and they weren't really seeing a big change with these animals when they were in a basically stress free environment. They weren't seeing any difference with their immune system or anything like that. But what they did is they changed the study around and they took the mice and they put them in tubes with little holes in them for a couple hours a day, which is like a stressor. Right. Because they're in a confined area. And so this increased like cortisol and different stress hormones on the animals. And so what they did then is they looked at the animals on melatonin versus off melatonin. And that's where they really started to get excited. They're like, there's something to melatonin that really helps to protect the system when it's under stress. And when you look at that study, you know, it's like, I look around right now and I see, well, what are. People are confined right to their house. It's almost like that study happening in.

Our dark little rodent tubes. Yeah.

So it's like, we need to put melatonin in the water supply, I think, but, well, let's dive into it. A little bit. So there's restorative aspects of melatonin, protective aspects. It helps with sleep. A lot of people know that there's something called the glymphatic system. And I think you've talked about this.

On kind of like the brain's drainage system.

It's like a pumping action. And so people that start to develop problems in their brain, they start to accumulate these different proteins like amyloid beta and protein tangles and so forth. And so these are immune complexes, actually. And so they found that it's not so much the problem that these proteins are collecting as much as it's a problem of them being cleansed out of the brain. And so if you look at, you know, as you get older, the melatonin just declines rapidly as you get older. And so this activator for deep sleep starts to diminish. And so deep sleep is the primary activator to the glymphatic system. So supplementing with melatonin makes a lot of sense for that, just for preventing degenerative neurologic conditions. But another really interesting aspect of melatonin is it inhibits cancer growth. So they've done a lot of studies. If you go on and you start researching PubMed and so forth, you'll see a lot of different cancers have been shown to be inhibited with melatonin. So a lot of natural medicine docs will use it in their practice for that. And then there's the viral protection, which I think we should dive into a little bit, which just blew my mind when I started to read about it.

Yeah. What do you see with viruses in the whole time?

Well, I was showing you that picture before, right?

Yeah, you showed me a very interesting picture.

So they were looking at Ebola. And Ebola just has a devastating effect on the endothelial lining of blood vessels. And so they did it with animal models with and without melatonin. And you see this picture and you can just see the blood vessels are just completely destroyed with the animals that didn't get the melatonin. Another really interesting study.

You should email me that picture, by the way. I'll put it in the show notes.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, every. Everybody's got to look at this picture because it's like you. You just look at it and you're like, wow, you know, that is really.

Doing something night and day difference in terms of the protective effects of the melatonin.

Yeah.

Now, now, of course, back to one of the questions that I was asking, though. Is this, like, say, testosterone replacement for males, where once you start it's very difficult to come off because you can shut down your endogenous production or production. This is something a lot of people have been asking me about after hearing I started using your melatonin suppositories as well. You're going to screw your circadian biology or your own ability to produce melatonin.

Well, this is the concern with any hormone. Are you going to shut down your endogenous production? That's what happens with testosterone. You start supplementing testosterone. Your body says, oh, I've got plenty of that. I don't need to make anymore. With melatonin, it doesn't work that way. There is no negative feedback loop. You can take as much as you. And there's no toxic level of it either. So they've done studies with animal models.

I bet we could find a guinea pig and kill them with about 2 million milligrams of milliliters.

Well, maybe 2 million. But they went all the way up to 150,000 milligrams which would be, well, I forget the exact equivalent, but it would be equivalent to 150,000 milligrams on 100, 150 pound person. And they stopped the study because they're like, there's just no toxic level of this.

Right. It's like the elephant that they tried to find the lethal dose of LSD with, the elephant wound up dying from the tranquilizers they had to give it so that it didn't just go berserking from all the LSD before it actually croaked from the tranquilizer. So yeah, not that melatonin is that similar to lsd, but that's very, very interesting. Now in terms of the amount, why so freaking much? And like, couldn't you do like a 10 milligram suppository?

You could, you could, you could do any, you know, amount of melatonin. But what we're doing is super physiological dosing. So this is not like what your, you know, your, your primary care doc's giving you, you know, 5, 10, 20 milligrams of melatonin to help with sleep. What we're talking about is moving the needle on various aspects of health that can be related to high dose of melatonin.

What about relevant to some of the things that are in the news right now? Something different than Ebola from a viral standpoint? Is there anything similar to a coronavirus or.

Right. Question. There was a recent article just this year that came out and, and these scientists are saying Melatonin could be a very helpful substance for coronavirus. And so they've looked at the process of melatonin and what it does. And so the challenge with this virus in particular is that it creates a cytokine storm. And that cytokine storm leads to something called ARDs, or acute respiratory distress syndrome. So the lungs basically shut down. So what's involved with that is something called an inflammasome. And that inflammasome is what leads to that whole cascade of cytokine storm. And so melatonin actually acts to calm that inflammasome down.

Okay, so in terms of blocking the inflammasomes or blocking the cytokine storm, this begs the question, not to put you on the spot, but. But there's also this concept that if you're using something like that regularly, like a very potent antioxidant, that you might be just blunting your hormetic response in general. Hermetic response to exercise, hermetic response to stressors, like kind of blunting the body's own endogenous antioxidant production. Could you theoretically be making yourself weaker by doing something like that?

Well, I mean, they haven't done studies to really determine that, but I can tell you the lead authority of melatonin, Russell Rider, M MD, PhD, and this guy's, you know, he's been studying melatonin for, you know, I don't know, his whole life, really. He takes 100 milligrams every night. You know, so he's the most researched, you know, individual on melatonin. And so every night. Wow. Yeah.

I'm gonna have to upgrade my, my melatonin stocks. I, I use it during times of stress. I found it to be very helpful. I use it when I'm traveling, especially for long haul flights. Flights. It just completely reboots everything. I've actually used it on the, on a flight, like a 10 hour flight with. Along with your high dose CBD, which is how many milligrams in the high dose CBD?

I think you're taking the 300.

Yeah, yeah. Which is, and I've said this before on podcasts, if you look at most of the studies on CBD and sleep enhancement, it's at least 100 mgs plus. And of course you might be able to say less for rectal absorption because absolutely, you're getting a lot more in there. But man, that 1, 2 combo, melatonin, high dose melatonin and high dose CBD via suppository, game changer. For sleep architecture, especially when traveling well.

You know, and, and I found that to be true too, because I travel a lot from Florida to Hawaii, you know, and it's a pretty brutal flight and, you know, with the time change and so forth. And so I kind of started to hack this with the products myself and I even, you know, came up with, with what I call the Travel Hacker Kit. Right. And so the, the problem with when you're flying is that there's a lot of, you know, air quality is a problem in the plane. You know, there's mold. It's probably going to get better now because I think they've upped their standards since this whole coronavirus epidemic. But you've got emf, so there's a lot of stressors that happen in the plane. And so taking a high dose of CBD made sense to me because it's, it's neuroprotective, you know, so it's almost like you've kind of a force field while you're traveling.

Right.

And then, of course, the sandman to reset your circadian rhythm. And then we're also utilizing something called Glutastat, which is a nasal antimicrobial nasal spray.

Yeah, I want to get into the nasal sprays here in a little bit because I find those fascinating. I've actually been using Glutastat, which also has N acetylcysteine and silver in it.

Correct.

For just general antiviral preparedness. But before we move on, there was one other compound I wanted to ask you about because there's a lot of chatter right now about its absorptability and bioavailability, and that's NAD. Some people are using sublingual NMN, some people are using oral NR. Obviously, people are getting NAD IVs. You and I did an NAD patch yesterday. And I think that the transdermal absorption and the intravenous absorption is amazing compared to most of the oral delivery mechanism mechanisms out there. But I want to ask you, what about rectal? Like, could you theoretically use NAD rectally like you're doing with glutathione and melatonin, et cetera?

Well, we have a neuro NAD line, you know, and it's a nasal spray, and it's also suppository. And so, you know, I got involved with NAD early on, you know, before anybody really knew about it. You know, it was the NAD conference in San Diego about five years ago or so. And, you know, so we started using it clinically. And so we were charging up towards fifteen Hundred dollars, you know, and people would sit at the clinic and run this NAD iv. And you have to run it slowly, otherwise you get these effects. And by the way, I did the fast push because I heard your podcast. I'm like, all right, I gotta do this.

I'm done in 10 minutes.

It was terrible. Oh, my God.

Yeah. Just listening in. It's a. It's a 500 milligram NAD push IV in about 30 milliliters of solution. And this, this is the type of thing you normally sit for like two to three hours, have solely drift into your system. You just grit your teeth, breathe, pull out a garbage can if you need to take a puke.

Yeah, it's intense.

Shove it all in. It is intense.

But I haven't been able to talk anybody into actually doing that.

It's kind of one of those what doesn't kill you, make you stronger things. I feel literally like that. Or like a cold ice bath or a Tabata set on the bike. Any of these things that are somewhat difficult to do, you just don't do them because you're a masochist. I think there's something to be said for the psychological and mental strength built through occasionally just like, doing the hard thing, including. And I think. Do you know Dr. Craig Conover?

Yeah, I've heard of him.

Okay. So he really feels that the slightly unpleasant response to an NADIV is something that actually is beneficial for the nervous system and one of the reasons people feel so good afterwards. Then there are other doctors who want to be a little bit kinder, and they'll co administer methyl donors with their NAD, like betaine or trimethylglycine or acetynecylmethionine that's what Dr. Matt Cook does, and I've done that before. And you literally barely even feel the Nadine. And apparently you still get some of the benefits. But for some reason, I kind of like to feel it. I like that sensation of knowing something's going on.

I don't know if I buy into that. You know, I haven't seen any. Any research. I think maybe that's just his intuition. It could be.

I. I think it is pure intuition, but.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But, you know, we. We do put the trimethylglycate in the nerve in the suppository.

You do?

And. Okay, so.

Yeah, I actually didn't. That. That was not a leading question. I did not know you did an NAD suppository.

Yeah. Interesting. Well, I haven't shared it with you yet. I was gonna say, like, I'm trying to, I'm trying to just trickle it.

To you, I know, to overwhelm you. There's so many things you make and there's obviously a lot more that, that I want to get into. And, and we kind of already hinted at this idea of nasal administration and these nasal sprays like last night. Let's start with this one. Like, you and I did a meditation and breath work session and I have done combo in the past. And in a combo ceremony, the, you know, the, the frog poison, where you burn the skin and have a little bit applied to the, to the burnt hole in the skin to really clear the head prior to that. Or a lot of other plant medicine ceremonies like ayahuasca would be another example. There's a South American. I don't know if it's an herb or a plant or a tobacco variant or what, but it's called hape.

Right.

I think it's spelled R A P E. Right.

Either one.

Okay.

Or rape.

Rape. And incredible head clearing effect. And normally it'd be like a ground up powder that a shaman would kind of breathe up into your nose and you know, kind of burns up deep in the skull and sticks with you with that burn for, you know, a good 10, 15 seconds. Then all of a sudden your head's clear as a bell.

Yeah.

And you kind of figured out how to do like a modern newfangled version of that.

Yeah. Well, you know, first of all, combo frog, you know, probably a lot of people, people listening to this have no idea what that is. I heard about that, you know, a few years ago and actually we, we're utilizing that with some of, some of our infection cases. You know, there's, and it's, I forget how many times stronger than morphine it is. It's got a, I mean you just, you feel good after you do a combo session, but you don't feel good while you're on it. You get sick.

It's a toxic, it's a hormetic, very, very powerful hormetic stressor.

Yeah.

And a lot of times you curl up in a ball for like 15, 20 minutes after you do it and just like fall asleep. They call it a combo nap.

Right. And you want to purge too. So it's common for people.

You don't really start throwing up. You do if you get the amount that you, I think, need to get the effect you, you purge. Like usually there's a five gallon bucket.

I've actually figured out how to microdose it, you know, and so I'm Able to get people just to the point where they're, you know, they don't even purge, you know, but. And you get all the beneficial effects if you do it in a lighter dose as well.

Same thing burning the hole in the skin and administering that way.

Yeah, that's the only way. Because I think if you ingest it, it could kill you, so probably that's the best.

You're not gonna do like a combo suppository?

No, I've. Now, I've thought about it. I've thought about it, but I think that, you know, I don't want to be the first to explore something like that.

The trickiest part would be to hold the suppository.

For me, number one is safety. Like, I don't want to take any chances with myself or any of my patients. So.

Yeah, yeah, that's reasonable. So this hape. What's it called? A Zen spray. Yeah.

So I have a colleague, he's an md, and he's living with a tribe in the Amazon, and he's real excited because all these different Amazonian tribes have their own blend of herbs, and they use it in ceremony. And so. So he was excited about this particular blend, and he sent me some. And so I was using it. And it's a very strong effect when you inhale it in the powder. Very intense. But again, like you said, you feel good afterwards. And there was something to it. I really had to take a dive into it. And what I figured out is that it's an autonomic activation, so you're actually strengthening your vagus nerve.

Oh, wow.

And so it's strengthening vagal tone. And so that's why you feel so relaxed and clear, because you're more calming down the sympathetic nervous system and activating the parasympathetic.

Exactly. Well, Dr. Conover again to bring him up, and he's been a former podcast guest. He was a guy who in the past had sent me some nasal sprays, and I had used, for example, his compounded ketamine combined with oxytocin, which both my wife and I find to be fabulous for sex.

Yeah.

And then you compounded this hoppe with oxytocin, which is kind of like a feel good trust hormone. Makes your tactile sensation feel amazing. And I actually use some of that before sex, and it was a. So the ketamine, you know, kind of disinhibits you, but it's very relaxing.

Yeah.

Whereas this stuff was just. It amped me up, but then made the sex feel amazing too. With this, with a super clear head. So I don't know if you've ever, if you've ever compounded it and used it for something like that. But this happy oxytocin blend, I've never used anything like that before. It's amazing.

Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting. And it's also really good for a meditation as well, if you take it. So the two ways that I'm finding it popular to be used as an entrance into meditation and also during breath work, you know, like with some WIM HOF breaths. And we did that with, with some breathing exercises in your sauna. We were doing some very, very rigorous breath work. And then right before the breath hold we, we use the spray. Right, so you're just getting this, just hyperactivation of the vagal nerve.

Yeah, I felt as though the clearness in the head allowed for almost like an amplification of the, of the natural DMT release that you get from that form of breath work. So I think pairing that. And even before our session last night where we used it for the, we did about 25 minute breath work session, I had used it probably a good 8 to 10 times prior for breath work. And it's amazing for breath work or meditation just because your head goes clear as a bell.

Well, I think I stumbled across one morning I was on my couch and I was doing Wim Hof and I just, I had the Zen there and I'm like, let me try to blend these two together. And I was so excited about it. I think I texted you, right? I did a group text because there's a few of us that were kind of beta testing it a few months ago. And yeah, it's, it's really, it's really nice.

This, this MD who lives in the Amazon, by the way, I think you left out one part. He's like, isn't he like the only white man or something like that who, who's actually able to access these, these Amazonians? Yeah, secrets. Because we have a mutual friend, yet to be unnamed. He's actually my, he's like my personal, you know, facilitator slash shaman. Yeah, amazing guy. I'm hoping someday I can get him on the podcast, right? And he's, he, he filled me in on that. That guy that lives in the Amazon, right. Has access to these medicines that normally none of us would be able to get.

Right?

So it's very interesting.

It's very special. Yeah, it's very special. We're very fortunate to have it. We, we don't have so much that it's scalable to a huge degree. So it's in a limited quantity.

Yeah. What else can you use in nasal spray besides hoppe and oxytocin?

Well, nad we already talked about that. Glutathione. We also have a peptide Neuromax which has CMAX in it. So it's like brain enhancing. And then the antimicrobials, I think is really, is really helpful for a lot of different upper respiratory. Right.

Just because Matt Cook and I actually recently talked about this on a podcast about the issue with biofilm in the nasal passages.

You know, I'm glad you brought that up. So a lot of people don't ever address that. You know, and you've got like this flypaper sticky material called biofilm that the bio bacterial producing. So whatever you're breathing in the air is just getting stuck into your sinuses. So everybody really needs to consider some sort of a sinus hygiene.

Right.

And so a sinus hygiene could be a neti pot where you're just using saline. You know, you could use colloidal silver. You know, some people put iodine in their, in their neti pot. We have a product called Glutastat, which has emulsified sage or regular oregano, clove leaf, bay leaf, and it's got some terpenes.

That's the stuff I've been nebulizing.

So that's. So we have a formula. A lot of docs like to nebulize it. A lot of the people that utilize our product line are physicians and then they give it to their patients. So using nebulizers is a way for. These doctors are utilizing the Glutastat to actually get deep into the sinuses and also in, into the lungs.

Yeah. And I want to talk about nebulizing in a moment, but kind of like suppositories, because a lot of people know how to swallow a capsule, but might not have known how to use a suppository until we explained it. Same thing with nasal spray. How do you do it? Do you need to cover one nostril and breathe in? How long do you need to snort it in for? What's the proper way to get the most out of a nasal spray if you're going to use one?

Well, if you can time it where you, you breathe in at the same time that you're squirting that, that's helpful. And so, you know, you place the nasal spray nozzle at the, at the, you know, opening of the nasal passage and Then you cover the other nostril, and then, you know, you spray it. And you don't want to breathe too, too, too hard in, because it's just going to go straight through the sinuses. So if you want it to kind of coat your sinus cavity, you're going to want to probably do, like, an inhale, like, medium. And then. And then you don't, you know, let it set there. You know, don't, like, sniff really hard. You know, let it kind of sit on the. On the. And coat the sinuses.

You ever think about which nostril that you breathe it into? Because in. In ayurvedic medicine. Yeah. When you breathe in through the right nostril, you're activating more. It would be parasympathetic.

Yeah.

When you're breathing in through the left nostril, it'd be more sympathetic. So could you theoretically say, okay, well, this is like an upper that I'm going to be using as a nasal spray, therefore, the left nostril would be most appropriate.

Well, Ben, now you're starting to get into the functional neurology stuff.

Okay.

Like we do. We'll even put, like, peppermint oil on just one side of the nostril, you know, because it does balance the brain when there's a deficiency on one side.

Yeah, I actually have. For those of you who want to take a deeper dive into the beauty of the nostrils, the fact that they are literally erectile tissue, and which nostril to breathe into to activate different systems, like sympathetic or parasympathetic, go listen to my podcast with James Nestor, the author of the book Breathe, because we actually geeked out on that for about 15 minutes about the nostril and how to kind of tweak which nostril you breathe through. If you're doing alternate nostril breathing. It's really interesting.

That's fascinating. I haven't listened to that one yet.

It's not out yet. It doesn't go out till next week at the time that you and I are recording. It'll be out, though, before this one comes out. Okay. So the nasal spray. And then the last question is, how deeply or intensely and for how long do you need to breathe in after you administer a spray?

Well, once it's in there, you want to just let it sit. If you feel like you need to sniffle in, try to do it gently.

Because I just really snort it hard.

I know you do. Yeah.

I don't need to be doing that.

No.

Okay.

No, because you're Just getting it straight through down into the throat.

That's why I'm tasting in the back of my throat.

Yeah.

Okay, so just, just breathe it in that I don't have to really huff it after that.

Yeah, Good to know.

Okay. Do you need to be tilting the head forward, anything like that? Head forward versus head back?

Yeah, I mean, it's, that's, that's the posture when you're, when you're holding it with your hands. You know, it's, it's not necessary to extend your head, but just a normal, normal position of the head. And I haven't really seen there be a big difference with head position as far as nasal spray.

Okay. Now, nebulizing, we've talked about suppositories, we've talked about nasal sprays, and then there is nebulizing for people who have never heard of that or aren't familiar with the term. What is nebulizing?

Okay, so nebulizers are some. It's a way for us to get medicine into patients. And so what the nebulizer does is it puts a liquid into a tiny fine mist and then you can breathe that in. And so it's going to affect absorption through the nasal passage, but you're also going to get some absorption through the lungs. And, you know, there's actually quite a bit absorption into the bloodstream through the lungs. You know, when you breathe the nebulizing particle particulate in.

So you're not just doing this for the respiratory tract, it's actually getting the bloodstream. Yes. Okay. So the nebulizer, I think the first time I used one was actually at Dr. Matt Cooks. He had me nebulizing glutathione, I believe, again, for some of the reasons we discussed. Biofilm nasal passages, in terms of the way that it, that it works. You get like a little mask. And this would. You can buy a nebulizer on Amazon, for example. Right. And you, and this is different than like a nebulizer for essential oils, right? You, you don't want to get just an essential oil nebulizer. You want one with a mask that you put over your face. And then you would put your nebulizing fluid into a little chamber that a tube is connected to between the mask and the chamber. And then you turn on the nebulizer and it basically creates like a fine particulate that you would then breathe in.

Then you breathe in.

Do you breathe in through your mouth or do you breathe in through your nose?

Ah, well, it depends. Right. So for Those listening, you know, the way I see it is if you want to affect the upper respiratory tract or you're looking for something more neurological, like for brain, you're going to want to nebulize or nasal spray. If it's more like a full body, the suppositories work a little bit better. I think that you're going to get more content into the bloodstream through the suppositories.

Okay.

But if anybody's dealing with like, you know, if they feel like, like they're coming out with the flu or they have like an upper respiratory infection. So that's kind of how we, how we started to formulate the glutastat was I got really sick and I was, at the time I was crewing for Tony Robbins and this flu was like a two week brutal flu.

Were you one of those people you had to do the high fives with?

Yeah, well, I was medical crew. So I was the guy that, like when people would start, you know, flipping out and going into, into convulsions because they're doing some of the activities with Tony, I would have to go and do CPR and stuff, then give them.

A high five when they get revived and then.

High five. Yeah, yeah. So, but, but you know, it was a responsibility and I felt like I really needed to step up to the plate and go, even though I was starting to get sick. So I started to formulate these different antimicrobials into, and started nebulizing. And literally I was nebulizing it every, I think, 20 minutes. And the next day I woke up and I had zero symptoms. Like, it just wiped it out. And so I knew I was onto something after that. And so since then I've been introducing this not into my practice, but a lot of other doctors practices because, you know, when you start to get sick, this is where it starts. It starts in the sinuses, it starts in the, it seeds there, and then it gets into the bloodstream from that point down the throat and then into the lungs. Right. So if you can stop it right there with an antimicrobial. Right. Where. Because if you take something orally, you know, you take an antibiotic orally, it's going to throw the whole body. And so a lot of times these bacteria or viruses or mold, they're kind of stuck in that biofilm, you know, in the sinus cavity or in the nasal cavity as well.

So you could utilize this if you feel like you've been exposed to airborne pathogens, if you've been in a heavily polluted area, if you concerned about viral exposure. And from what I understand, the lungs don't actually have much of their own built in antioxidant system. So you're essentially supplying the respiratory tract with antioxidants that it normally would not be able to produce itself.

Right? Yeah.

Now what, aside from something like glutathione and N acetylcysteine do you utilize for nebulizing or is that kind of your. Oh, that in silver, I suppose, is the other one you mentioned.

Yeah, so. So the two primary things that docs are using to nebulize with their patients are the glutagenesis and that's really high glutathione content liquid. And then there's the glutastat, which is more antimicrobial. I mean, those are the two primary routes that we're going with the nebulizer.

Okay. And nebulizer aren't that expensive, are they? Oh, no, 40, 50 bucks. Like that on Amazon.

Yeah, yeah.

And not to put you on the spot, but. But if somebody wanted to like buy a bottle of the Glutastat, like the stuff I've got on my, on my desk right now, how much does something like that cost?

I think it's about 12119.

Yeah. And that's. I've been using like a month. I'm not even halfway through the bottle.

Yeah.

So I feel like it's got pretty good life. Should I have in the refrigerator, by the way?

Yes, the glutagenesis, you should. Not the glutastat. The Glutastat's pretty stable outside the refrigerator.

It's whatever's in my office. I think it's the Glutastat.

Yeah. Yeah.

You're good.

Yeah.

You're good with that. Okay. So this is obviously stuff that goes way beyond encapsulation technology and the pills that people are used to popping. And I think, you know, compared to intravenous administration, which is highly efficacious. But you know, again, not a lot of people are going to mess around with needles or have a practitioner come to their house to open oversee that, I think this stuff is very convenient.

Yeah. Something I was thinking about because when I was in your hyperbaric oxygen chamber, I actually did a lusitol before I went in there. And you know, you can't sit there and run an IV in a hyperbaric, but you think about the advantage of having those nutrients flowing through your blood while you're in a hyperbaric to Push that deeper into the cells.

Well, I'll tell you what you need to do then is you need to figure out some kind of like arginine or citrulline or nitric oxide precursor delivery for hyperbaric use. Because that's the issue is there is some vasoconstriction that occurs at pressure. If you can vasodilate in conjunction with that pressurized oxygen, that would be a cool one for hyperbaric would be some kind of a suppository that's basically like a nitric oxide precursor.

Have you heard of the IV laser that they're doing? Intravenous laser?

I don't think so.

We call it Lumastem. And so we have.

Oh, yes, similar, like ultraviolet blood irradiation.

It's so it's a machine and we're able to actually direct laser into a vein. And we use infrared ultraviolet. Red, green, blue.

Do you know what you're talking about? I've done that. Done at a guy who's been on the podcast before. We actually podcasted while we were doing it. Avi Herskovich down in San Francisco. Right.

I think I heard that. Yeah. Yeah, so. So we've been at that for a while. And so, you know, the German doctor that pioneered this was. Is really into providing photoactive nutrients. You know, like, curcumin is a big one.

Right.

So blue light in particular really activates that. So once it's in your bloodstream, you can activate it with the light photobiomodulation.

Right.

So I'm working with this, with this doctor in Germany. He's actually going to be in my viral Summit as well. Dr. Weber, this guy's a genius. And so we're working on some suppositories because a lot of these things you don't find in iv. We actually have a curcumin iv, by the way, and it's amazing, but very expensive.

Yeah.

So if you can get a suppository for like 10 bucks.

Interesting. What about some of these things that would upregulate cytochrome oxidase in mitochondria in response to photons of light? Could you also use something like that prior to the lumomed? I'm talking about like chlorophyll, you know, from chlorella, or melanin from Chaga, or methylene blue. Like, could you take that orally and then do something like the lumamed?

Well, I think the sublingual and the methylene blue. So we're using the methylene blue as well. You Know, we just started a protocol where we're giving people methylene blue and then we're using trt. TRT machine. I think I turned you on to the guy that.

Yeah, I haven't used it. What does TRT stand for again?

Tissue regeneration technology. So it's an acoustic device, and they're actually doing some studies on Alzheimer's in Europe where it's breaking up that amyloid plaque.

Yeah, I actually did wind up trying that. It was over at the office of Dr. Phil Leno here in Spokane. They had a TRT. They did a treatment. My problem is since I quit racing Spartan and doing triathlons, I haven't really had much in the way of injuries.

Yeah.

So, you know, people ask me what hurts, and there's not much to work on that's hurting.

Yeah.

Knock on wood. But, yeah, that TRT is supposed to be amazing. It is kind of like pulse electromagnetic field therapy. But.

Well, what's nice about it is it gets deep into the body, you know, and so you can do deep hip and, you know, spine and, you know, because there's different acoustic wave devices. I'm sure a lot of people heard about the gainwave. Gainswave, but this is. This is a different technology. So it's literally the head of the. Of the device is it fills with water and you're using ultrasound gel. And so, you know, we're using this for everything from ED to prostate conditions. I mean, some of the stuff we're doing for prostate is unbelievable. We're using ozone injections. We're using this TRT machine. Game changer for a lot of elderly.

That's all. At your practice in Sarasota, you're doing that stuff?

Yeah.

Okay. The other thing I wanted to ask you about was you gave me this water last night, and I don't know if you're able to disclose anything about it, but you said it was holy water and you didn't give my wife some, and she thought we were pranking her because you had it in a nasal spray and you had some that I actually drank orally in the sauna. Can you say anything about what? This mysterious.

Well, I can't divulge this yet. I'm going to, though. I mean, we're going to be. We're going to be bringing this to the United States. Like it's. It's big in China, and they're utilizing this for, I don't know, Chinese.

Haven't seen. Have much luck lately.

No, they haven't had a hard go, but. But it's it's approved there for cancer and it's approved there. They're using it for, for viral infections as well, successfully. But when I was sick with Lyme disease, you know, this, this is probably going back 15 years ago, I had a doctor come by my office with this home. It's a homeopathic. And he did some injections, so it comes in an injectable. And he injected around some of the joints that were sore and it was just miraculous. Like the pain went away, but this guy couldn't find it again. And so Dr. Alex Smithers, he's a medical doctor that works with me in Sarasota, Florida. He found this company and so we've reconnected with him. And so in talking to the doctor that formulated this, he was basically buying art in the Middle East. And so he found this pamphlet and there was like in some inscripted language, he had it translated and it was some sort of a healing remedy. And so he started playing around with this and that's where he developed this particular product. And then a few years later, I guess there's. There's this true holy water. It's like, it's called Bethesda water and it's got certain properties that they think that there was some sort of a fountain of youth that was in Jerusalem somewhere. And so there's.

You realize we've already lost like half our listeners, but keep going.

I know this sounds crazy, it sounds really woo. Well, so I'm not a big believer. I mean, I'm not, you know, we use homeopathy, you know, but to me, homeopathy has always been subtle, right? This product is not subtle. This product gets some amazing results. Like for instance, even for me personally, like I've had bone marrow, I've had exosomes in my hip and I still had some stuff going on. And so I had this product injected into my hip and it's literally done the best that anything else has done. And Dan Pompa was at my clinic a couple weeks ago, right. And he's had exosomes and stem cells on his neck and it got, he got a lot of results. But I talked to him a few days ago and he said because we use this, this holy water injected into his neck combined with exosomes and you know, he's reporting to us that it's. It's the best his neck's ever felt.

Wow. Holy cow.

And it comes in a drinkable. You can nebulize this stuff. It's a nasal spray, a lot of applications to it, but we could probably do a whole podcast on it. Wow.

So once you kind of have a chance to develop it, and I assume it's not in production, you're just kind of playing with it right now.

No comment.

Okay. All right, well, I'll try and keep the show Notes updated@BenGreenfieldFitness.com Dr. John, if you want to stay up to date on holy water. And that's also where you can leave questions about any of the stuff we talked about. Anything else you're excited about right now? Yeah.

You know, so we started to play around with ozonated saline, actually. So the Russians kind of started to pioneer this procedure where there's a. It's like a glass tube, right. And you put sterile water in there and you bubble ozone through the water and then you run it intravenously. And, you know, we've been using 10 pass for probably, I want to say, almost five years. So we got into it pass ozone, which I've.

Which I've done some pretty thorough podcasts on before.

Right. So anybody listening to this, you know, there's different ways that you can utilize ozone and there's all these different benefits that ozone has. You know, we, we don't need to get into all that, but it has a lot of benefit. And so dosage wise and safety wise, there's. There's different ways that you could administer ozone. And 10 pass seems to be one of the highest levels where you take about 200cc's of blood out of the body and then under pressure, you mix it with ozone and then it's allowed to go back into the body. And we've just seen remarkable improvements with Lyme disease and some autoimmune and so forth with that. But we started to play around with this other procedure we're calling Rejuvenox. And so what we're doing is we're I.V. ing this ozonated saline and we're actually Iving high dose magnesium at the same time. And we're putting them in this pod device called a cvac. Have you ever heard of the cvac?

Yeah. Alternating high and low pressure. Yeah.

So this machine is fascinating. It uses ambient air, and there's a lot of the same benefits of a hyperbaric oxygen chamber, but it's a lot easier to use. It's only a 20 minute session, and.

It'S like you're going up to the top of Mount Everest them back down multiple times. Right.

You're. So it's the pressure changes and that's where all the benefit happens. And so we like it because it really helps to open up the body to circulate nutrients. So like, you know, and it's also very powerful with the glymphatic system. So, you know, you're able to kind of flush a lot of things through the nervous system that way. And it's also stimulates. They've done some studies where it actually activates stem cells. Oh, wow. It activates mitochondrial biogenesis. I mean, all the things that you want.

That's called rejuvenox.

So that the rejuvenox is the combination of all those three, the high dose magnesium, the ozonated saline, and then the CVAC afterwards.

Interesting. There's a lot of cool protocols that one can get done at a clinic like that. But I also like this idea that you can use something like a nasal spray, suppository nebulizer, and some of this stuff. You can get pretty good effects from.

Just at home and go to the.

Doctor, which a lot of people really can't travel right now, at least during the time that we're recording this. But the clinic in Florida, if people wanted to fly in and see you, are you still taking new patients or are you hardcore into the nasal sprays and suppositories now?

Well, you know, Ben, that's one of the reasons that we kind of formulated these things because, you know, we were able to ship them out and send them to people all over the world, you know, where we can only treat so many people in the clinic, but we're also able to use these products, you know, because I was looking at like, what do I need clinically for some of these really difficult cases? And that's how a lot of these formulas came to be. But yeah, we are accepting new patients.

All right, well, you want to, you want to get excited about, about something besides this podcast, which I think is going to change a lot of people's lives. Because I honestly, whenever I find cool new shit, I just love to turn people onto just makes me smile. And I think people are really going to get a lot of benefit out of this stuff if they start to try it. And again, you guys listening? And I'll put this all@BenGreenfieldFitness.com DoctorJohn, Dr. J O H N. But the other thing I'm excited about is I want to give you a preview of tonight because it's gonna be amazing.

Okay.

Okay, so here's what we're gonna do tonight. You guys can listen. So you know what a evening at The Greenfield house is like, I gotta. I got two of the doctors coming over. Guy who runs a local wellness clinic that I think you were able to see yesterday.

Dr. Love.

Dr. Love. Dr. Love of the Wellness Tree. Amazing juice bar, smoothie bar, natural medical clinic in Spokane. And then my friend Cameron Chestnut, who I used to race triathlon, I guess, back in the day. Big iron man guy. And now he's a cosmetic surgeon surgeon here in Spokane. And then my. My wife and I think. I think Cameron's wife might come over too. So we're gonna do. We're turn on the sauna and we're gonna go down there skies and just like chillax in the sauna. We can bring some of the sprays down there if you want some of the guys to try some of the sprays. And. And we'll spend like 30, 40 minutes just sweating it out and catching up in the sauna. That I like to do that versus just like drinking beers on the couch.

Yeah.

And then. Then we'll go hit the cold tube. We'll give people the option to do the 35 degree Morozco forge or the. The big old cold pool. Do it. Do a little bit of cold therapy. And then we're going to finish up with. With some of the. The hot tub. So you're already gonna feel amazing after that. And then my. My wife is making one of her signature recipes that I absolutely love, Beer can chicken. So she's got two big old organic chickens.

Oh, wow.

Beer can Chicken. What a treat we're gonna do.

Jessa is an amazing cook, by the way. Oh, my gosh.

If I weren't a fitness, I'd be morbidly obese. And then we're gonna do a bunch of organic red wine. We're gonna have a nice healthy dessert, play some music.

Awesome.

It's gonna be amazing.

You've got a good voice, by the way.

Thanks.

Yeah, I was. I was shocked. Like, you. You invited me up when you sung to your kids, like, for. For bedtime, and it was just like. I mean, your voice is incredible. Have you ever sung in front of your. Your. Your clan here on a podcast?

I have and actually a couple of things. A. And I could sing something if you want me to, but you have to tell me. Tell me a song, and I'll have to remember the words.

Doorway to heaven.

Dr. Matt and Cook. Dr. Matt and Cook. Doctor Matt Cook. He and I cut a country music album.

Okay.

So our band is called Rocky Roots. Roots. And I think it's Rocky Roots. I'll put a link in the show. It's either. If you were to search Rocky roots, Ben Greenfield, you'd find it. Okay, so we've got that. I am trying during this quarantine to record another kind of like country music album of old timey hymns because I just love kind of like the Alan Jackson approach.

Yeah, you do have a country twin like Grace. Yeah, there it is. There it is.

Yeah. So. So how about this? Well, we'll sing people out on a nice little uplifting tune. I'll give you guys a few verses, then you can say goodbye to Dr. John and me. And please visit the show notes because I'm going to put everything that you need to know about Dr. John there and he'll send me any additional study. Send me the mouse photo, too.

Oh, yeah, for sure.

All right. Amazing grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me I once was lost but now I'm found Was blind but now I see.

Beautiful, amazing voice.

All right, you guys, we love you. I'm Ben Greenfield along with Dr. John Laurence.

Thank you so much for having me, Ben. This has been incredible.

Signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com have an amazing week. More than ever these days, people like you and me need a fresh, entertaining, well informed, and often outside the box approach to discovering the health and happiness and hope that we all crave. So I hope I've been able to do that for you on this episode today. And if you liked it or if you love what I'm up to, then please leave me a review on your preferred podcast listening channel, wherever that might be, and just find the Ben Greenfield life episode. Say something nice. Thanks so much. Means a lot.