The New Darlings Of The Anti-Aging Industry & The Russian’s Secret Age Reversal Weapon: Peptide Bioregulators With Phil Micans.

My name is Ben Greenfield, and on this episode of the Ben Greenfield Life Podcast.

If we think a human being is a machine, a very complicated machine, but nonetheless a machine, like all machines, we are as strong as our weakest part. So if one can know where your weak points are, or if you don't know what your weak points are, do you know what your family's weak points are? You know, diabetes, cancer, heart disease, whatever it is, you can focus on that.

Faith, family, fitness, health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the show.

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So here's how you get in on the exciting gifts that they're gonna give you with your purchase and get 10% off magnesium breakthrough. You go to magbreakthrough.comBen that's magbreakthrough.comBen and use code BEN10. That'll give you a 10% discount on mag Breakthrough. Hey, a quick thing before we dive into today's episode, the connection, the Internet connection with Dr. Mikins. He's all the way over in England. I'm in the US On a snowy, icy day, which probably didn't help, but the connection was a little bit tough in the beginning. For about the first half hour or so. There's a little bit of a staticy ness to his voice. I apologize. The information is still fantastic. It really clears up after about a half hour. But I just want to let you know that the audio is not as pristine as I would like for it to be. But it's a great show anyways, and I hope you get a lot out of it. I learned a ton of here we go. Well, folks, I've done a few episodes on peptides, peptide therapy, and this whole emerging world of what I consider to be one of the frontiers of anti aging and longevity and medicine and regenerative medicine. And many of you I know have looked into or even used peptides, whether it's like growth hormone precursors that you might take at night like ipamorelin or injectable peptides for inflammation with the Star wars robots, names like BPC157 and TB500. And so we've talked about those a little bit before, and I'll certainly link in the show notes to some of those previous discussions. What I haven't talked about much before on the show and what is a subset of peptides that are absolutely intriguing, as you're gonna find out, are peptide bioregulators. Peptide bioregulators. And these things can be taken orally as a supplement They've of been an emerging secret of the anti aging and longevity world for the past few years. They're just now starting to hit the mainstream. And essentially they communicate with specific sections of your DNA and they've been shown to activate genes for cellular regeneration and to help regulate gene expression and protein synthesis. And they've actually been researched quite a bit over in Russia by this professor named Vladimir Kavinson. And my guest on today's show just so happens to have extensively studied convention's work and is considered to be one of the world's leading experts on anti aging and peptide bioregulators and a whole lot more. His name is Phil Mikins. Phil, is it Mikans or Meekins? You just told me right before the show started and now I'm blanking.

Go either way. But if you want to do it the family way, it's Mikans Mikins.

Hopefully you have a peptide bioregulator for memory. So Phil Mikins is a guy who has degrees in food and vitamin technology and pharmacy and biochemistry. He's been involved in the anti aging world since the late 80s. He's been all over the place in books and magazines and radio and TV shows. He has a cool magazine too. He's the editor in chief of this great magazine, I just found it and I've read a few issues called Aging Matters Magazine. Aging Matters magazine. If you get a chance, check that one out as well and I'll link to everything that Phil and I talk about. If you go to Bengals. Greenfieldlife.com micans m I c a n s bengreenfieldlife.com mikans so Phil, welcome to the show, man.

Well, thank you Ben. It's a great pleasure. I've been looking forward to chatting with you.

Yeah, yeah, me too. And I mean, your company had even sent me a big box of all your different bioregulators and these eye drops that my wife were using that apparently can save or improve vision. And you, you've got all sorts of interesting things that you're up to, but these peptide bioregulators, I think they're absolutely fascinating and there's a lot of regenerative medicine docs in the US who I respect, use them extensively in their practice, but I've never really had a good chat about what they are and how they work. So I figured you and me could dive in. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about your anti aging protocol yourself too, being an expert in this whole realm. And so we'll get to that also. But so let's, let's start with a peptide bioregular. What exactly is a peptide bioregulator and how did they come to be?

Okay, the come to be is quite a long story, although I will shorten it as much as possible. What they are, they are short chain peptides, specifically that is made up of two, three or four amino acids. Because of course, once you start, you know, peptides are made of amino acids and of course, depending on the length of the chain and the placement of where the amino acid is in the chain dictates what kind of peptide you have. And of course the longer they get, they turn into proteins and then they can even turn into some of the hormones. So for example, human growth hormone is made up of 191amino acids. But these peptide bioregulators are very short.

And a quick question, by the way, you said the peptide bioregulators are like three to four different amino acids. If we're talking about a peptide, let's say a popular one like BPC157. Right. Like a lot of people use that for injuries. How many amino acids approximately would that be?

I've forgotten the exact number of BBC 157, but I hesitate a guess at around 15. Okay, so I think that's the kind of number it would be.

So maybe like three to five times higher number of amino acid chains than a peptide bioregulator. Okay, yeah.

There is another key word in that expression though, and that is the word bioregulator. And it would be true to say that even if you have a peptide in front of you that's made up of two, three or four amino acids, like take for example carnosine, which is two amino acids. Dipeptide of correct terminology, it's not known to be a bioregulator. That is an additional term that the Russian studies, and originally of course Soviet studies, have dictated to mean something very specific. And in this case there are two specific things. One is they act as gene switches. They are essentially the messages within food. To me, it explains the epigenetics of food in a heartbeat, within the food themselves, as it were. And secondly, we can get into this and this is perhaps the most intriguing thing of them. They bio regulate. So what does that mean? Well, if we take a sample of the thyroid, if one is to take the thyroid peptide bioregulator, one would find that if you are hypothyroid, in other words, you, you have a weak thyroid, you're not producing enough thyroid hormones, it would activate the genes to actually make your thyroid gland produce more, which is great, obviously very natural. But on the counter, if you were hyperthyroid, which is more unusual, but there's still plenty of people out there who are hyperthyroid. In other words, you're producing too many thyroid hormones. The same peptide, through its bioregulation will silence the gene and bring you down within this, shall we call it optimal band.

Seems to me like the way that you're describing these, they almost sound a little bit like an adaptogen, you know, like a reishi mushroom extract. As an adaptogen would sometimes act in an excitatory manner if you were down, but then also have a little bit of a calming effect if you're. If you're too hyped up.

Yeah, absolutely. Good analogy to adaptogens. And of course let's. In the same way that many adaptogens are of course natural in nature, let's just point out that these peptide bioregulators are in the foods. So again, very, very natural. We've written a book on one of the. If people want to get a sort of science, a deep dive book, then we have a book called Peptides in the Epigenetic Control of AG which really goes into detail. But at the same time we have a light book for the public which was called the Peptide Bioregulate Revolution. Slight mouthful to say, but there it is.

Yeah, I read that one last week. It's fantastic.

That's great. Now, we tried in that book, in that booklet, I should say really, to put very succinctly what is really over 40 years of Russian research, I think that staggers people, let's be honest, many of the peptides and I think peptides is the field to be in right now. It's very exciting. It's obviously got a big future. But the thing about many of them that are in use, they could be termed experimental. You know, there's still a lot unknown. The amazing thing about the 21 so far discovered peptide bioregulators is we can look back at over 40 years of Russian research and if you want me to, Ben, that might be the moment where I could and describe how they came into being.

Yeah, I'd love to hear about this Professor Kevinson guy because I haven't mentioned him in my book Boundless, in which I talk about peptides, even though I don't discuss peptide bioregulators as much in the anti aging chapter in that book, I introduce him in his work a little bit. But a lot of people aren't familiar with him or how he's linked to these bioregulators. Yeah, I'd love to hear a little bit more because it's just so odd that it's been over in Russia for decades and now it's just now the new thing, at least over in the West.

Yeah, absolutely. Right. Well, Professor Cavinson is a very, how should we say, serious man in Russia. He's the head of the Institute of Biogerontology in St. Petersburg, which is a very, very well respected institute, has many people working with it in all kinds of medical fields and quite frankly, I think his work is deserving of a Nobel Prize. I know the politics at the moment won't dictate that, but if we go back to the 1980s when of course we talk about the Soviet Union, he actually received a call direct from the Kremlin saying that they wanted him to find him and his team to find something that would help protect their troops. They had a number of concerns. The first concern was that the submariners who were in nuclear submarines were basically aging fast. Perhaps no big surprise if you're sitting on the seabed for six months near a nuclear reactor. And also they had people in missile silos, etc. And also there were certain battlefield weapons that had been developed by the Americans in one which, which was a laser which if shone onto the battlefield, would blind anyone that saw it. So as a count, thankfully it's never been used, but thank you know, there's so many of those nasty weapons on all sides, but you know, they try and find a counter to it. So he was told, go away and find something that could help all these people. And you know, their research took them down blind alleys, but eventually they stumbled on, I suppose, that there are these short chain peptides found in different foods that act as gene switches. And so over time, obviously they did, you know, in vitro studies and then they did animal studies and eventually they did human studies. And it was found to be very effective in all kinds of conditions. So much so that eventually it was decided that their elite troops, their cosmonauts and even their Olympic teams would start to use them. And so over time, so it started life as a military secretary, that's the bottom line. And they found all kinds of things were happening. I mean, for example, one of the problems they faced was cosmonauts going into space for long periods of time and coming back and being physically exhausted, taking a long time to readapt to the Earth's climate. And they found that if they put them on the Peptides that these recovery periods were greatly shortened because one of the things they do is they induce protein synthesis. And so it led. And of course today, and I think possibly for the last at least 15 years, they are actually sold on the Russian market. And when I say Russia, it's on the Russian speaking countries. So we are talking about places like Kazakhstan and the Ukraine. They're sold as food supplements. At least the capsules are. Are they available as injections? Yes, they're also available as injections.

Now when you say they're sold as food supplements, when you use that term, is that different than the term supplements in terms of like their regulatory status or something? I mean they're considered to be food like you could buy at the grocery store, for example.

Well, I suppose in American perspective we could consider them like that under the Dietary Health and Supplement Act. So you can go into, you know, a health food store or whatever and buy them in capsules.

Got it.

Without prescriptions? Yeah, without prescriptions. So, so that's interesting. And then some of the work they do, which I'll be happy to go down any perspective want me to go down. They, you know, it's everything from sort of like supporting health and you know, not because of course the ultimate aim in anti aging medicine is not to get sick. Right. It's one thing to have something that's going to treat ill patients, but it's quite another to make sure we never get these problems in the first place. But they do also treat serious disorders with certain types of them. And I'll get into that if you want me to. So that's where we are today. But of course one of the things that's slowed down the spread of this information is of course most of the information was in Russian which is very different to our Latin based language. And so as a result of that, although I would say that possibly the majority of the Russian studies are now in English, not all of them are. And so in our own way is, you know, company I work with, we've tried in our own way through our magazine, through our books, through our website to get this information out. Because there are literally dozens and dozens and dozens of human studies, including some of the biggest clinical trials you've ever heard of in your life.

Really?

Really. Would you like me to talk about that?

Yeah, I'd love to hear a little bit more about these studies because you know, even if you, if you look on PubMed at some of Convincen's work, he talks about these peptide bioregulators and if you Read the abstract. It says that he's paid some attention to the ability of them to increase lifespan and inhibit carcinogenesis. When a term like increased lifespan is thrown around, I mean, that can mean a lot of things. So I'm curious about these studies and what was actually found, particularly when it comes to peptide bioregulars and longevity or anti aging. Like what we're talking about humans versus rodents. And are we talking weeks, months, Years? What'd they find?

Yeah, sure. Well, let's stick with humans because that's probably the most interesting thing to talk about anyway, isn't it? Of course, they went through the animal trials to get there. They didn't just throw them at humans straight away. But with the human ones, there are two trials in particular that were conducted in the 80s, and one just about crept into the 90s. And the biggest one was conducted with workers in Gazprom. And Gazprom, of course, is Russia's oil and gas industry. And they actually, wait for it, took 11,000 employees. Okay. And they put 3,000 of them on a control. The 3,000 guys, they got some vitamin capsules, and then the other 8,000, they received some peptides, which I'll go into. And what, they followed them up. They did a one year follow up, and then in a smaller number, they did a six year follow up. And in a slightly smaller number, again, it was over a thousand people. They did a 12 year follow up. Okay. So if you know anything about clinical trials, you know, those numbers are pretty incredible. And those lengths of time are pretty incredible as well.

Yeah.

What they found, bottom, bottom line, Ben, what they found is that the guys who took the peptides had one third of the morbidity of the control group. And also in the longer trials, because of course, you know, they started with people who were like in their 35, 45, 55 years old. And so some of these guys, when they followed up 12 years later, they were well into their retirement. And just to point out, these Gazprom people were in Siberia, okay? So they were in a pretty tough environment that, you know, anyone who knows about life expectancy numbers will know that people in those kind of regions of Russia don't live as long as we do. They don't have the average of Western Europe or North America. So with that, the fact that the people on the peptides had one third of the morbidity, in other words, they only had one third of the problems, disease, disorder problems, and then one third of the death rate is absolutely staggering. Numbers that was repeated In a smaller trial of around 400 to 500 people in Central Russia in a tractor factory. And they got very similar results. So it has been done twice, it's been done in large numbers of people. And I'm also can tell you that it's been done by a doctor in America called Bill Lawrence. And I'd like to, if you want to get into Bill studies, I'd be happy to do that.

Yeah, I've emailed back and forth a few times with Bill. I never actually got him on the podcast, but he does have some pretty interesting studies. What's he been up to?

Well, I'm very pleased to say that we ran a summit here in England, I'm English, in September, the end of September, which we.

Oh yeah, that's right. Another guest who's been on the podcast, Dr. Matt Cook, he was over there. He said it was fantastic.

Yeah, no, it's very kind. It was great to meet Matt as well. I've been in touch with Matt ever since and we hope to do another one next year. So if people want to have a look into that. The Profound Health Summit, end of September. Okay. But Bill came along from, from Atlanta and what Bill had done, he taken, he, he was of course intrigued by these Russian studies and he's been over there to St. Petersburg, etc. And as indeed I have. And he found out that he said, well, I want to take some, you know, patients in. He lives in the Atlanta area in Georgia and he said I want to take a bunch of American patients and, and kind of repeat this study and see what we do. But he kind of modernized it because there are things obviously possible now that weren't possible in 1990. And I'll tell you what that is. So he started with 39 patients and he said I'm going to monitor these guys over three years. He now has over 120 patients and it might be worth noting that all his patients are doctors. They're all medical doctors. Okay. So all I can tell you and what he of course reported at our summit and by the way, those videos are available to watch so you can watch Bill talking and see his slides, etc. He was very, very focused on what are probably the two most prominent anti aging longevity markers of the moment and those are telomere length and DNA methylation or the so called Horvath clock. Now if anyone knows about. I'll start with DNA methylation. Anyone who knows about that and the great work of Stephen Hawarth will probably appreciate that. It's probably the most accurate single bio age clock that we have. It's incredibly accurate. In fact, I've heard a rumor that some police forces are using it when they, let's say a murder's been perpetrated and they found some blood on the scene. Well, what can you tell from that blood? Well, you can tell the blood group and maybe the gender and what have you, but if you haven't got the DNA of, of the perpetrator on file, you don't know who that person is. Right, right. So what they apparently are doing with the Horvath clock is they're excited because by using the Horvath clock, they can get that person's person's chronological age to within plus or minus four or five years. So they know if they're dealing with a 40 year old, a 50 year old or whatever.

Yeah, it's pretty accurate.

That's pretty, it is pretty accurate. Compared to anything else out there, that's really accurate. But Stephen Horvath admitted certainly a year or two ago whether he's changed his mind since. I'm not sure that really there was nothing out there that could reverse your DNA methylation age. So Bill Lawrence, of course, focused very much on that. And what's absolutely fascinating is that all of his patients in this three year trial have lengthened their telomeres significantly and also have all improved their DNA methylation clocks. They've all reversed their DNA methylation age as well. So. And I think although these different patients have been on a different cocktail cocktail of peptides because of their situation, obviously, you know, like everything in life, if you're going to fix it, whether it's your car or whether it's yourself, you start with your weakest points. Kind of makes sense. So he, he of course adjusted programs to the individual. But I think, and you know, when I say, I think this is also because of discussions with Bill and other people and of course Professor Cavinson himself. Pineal peptide could be the singular most important peptide of all.

The Pineal peptide. Is that the one? They have great names that. The Pine island one?

Yeah. Unfortunately, when it comes to the names that that's when it gets like learning a new language because they change the names slightly dependent upon whether the peptide was naturally derived or synthetically produced, whether it's injected or taken orally and so on. The most well known name of the Pineal peptide is Epitalon. Another name is Epitalamine.

Yeah, Epitalin is the one that's the one that they did the primary amount of actual anti Aging, research on.

Right, that's right, that's right. And when we start to talk, think about what is the pineal. And this is a subject I love mainly because I used to work with a fantastic Italian doctor who's quite well known, who's got Dr. Walter Pierre Pauli. And Walter was responsible for writing all the early books about Melatonin, like the Melatonin Miracle. And he's, he's not only a doctor who, well, he's well retired now, but he's not only a doctor who was looking after the patients. He did much of the research on mice as well. And the pioneer was a very fascinating and unusual gland. And we all know, of course it produces melatonin. That's well known. And of course it's at the center of the brain. It's about pea sized. But of course, what does Melatonin do? Well, just in a nutshell, and this is Walter's words, not mine, he said, I love stories. I find it's a great way to remember things. And he said to me once, he said, the pineal gland is the conductor of the orchestra and the orchestra is the endocrine system. Okay, so he said, what do you have if you have an orchestra and you have no conductor? Well, you have noise. If you have an orchestra with a conductor, you have music. And when you think about it, the purpose of course of melatonin is to tell the body when it's day, when it's night. And because as you know, it's only produced in darkness. And so as a result, the different endocrine glands know when they should be pulsating their different hormones. And of course, if you're screwed up because you're, you're flying on jets all the time, or you're a shift worker, perhaps you know how bad it can get when your body doesn't know when it's day and when it's night. So that's a fundamental part. So one of the interesting things about taking the pineal peptide, a bioregulator, is one sees improve endogenous melatonin production. But I think there's more to it than that because what we're also seeing, I'm not aware of any studies that if you take melatonin as a supplement that it will extend telomeres. If anyone out there does, I'd love to see them, please send them in, but I'm not aware of any. So the fact that the pineal bioregulator also significantly extend telomeres shows that there are other actions taking place all right, let's talk ketosis.

When your body churns out ketones, it is a state of metabolic efficiency, mental clarity, improved athletic performance, better metabolic health. The reason for that is that ketones are 28% more efficient at generating energy than sugar alone. That means you can do more with less. And ketones are usually made when your body's pushed to the limits, when it's deprived of carbs, when it's fasted, when it's had a whole, whole bunch of fat, coconut oil and butter and all the things. But you can also, using the magic of science, shift yourself very rapidly into a state of ketosis that you normally have to fast for days to get into by supplementing with liquid ketones. You can usually drink ketones to do this. And there's one form of ketone brain fuel called ketone iq, fittingly enough, and it is literally, quite literally, brain fuel. None of the insulin spikes or caffeine jitters or mid afternoon energy crashes you get from most energy drinks. You just fuel with ketone iq. One serving of this stuff and it shifts you into the state of ketosis that you want again without being fasted or restricting carbohydrates. So it's almost like you get to have your cake and eat it too. Or if you're already into ketosis and you want to put the icing on the cake and get even deeper into ketosis, this stuff works fantastically for that too. It's made by HVMN. They created this stuff through a $6 million contract from the US Department of Defense. Deep partnerships with some of the top researchers in the ketone industry. It's a cutting edge drink and you get 20% off. Here's how. Go to hvmn.com and use code BENG20. That gets you 20% off any purchase of Ketone IQ. That's an exclusive offer for my listeners only. Hvmn.com BENG it's called Ketone IQ by HVMN.

All right, let's talk about the one supplement that I think is one of the most powerful supplements, flies under the radar, that is good for building lean muscle, enhancing athletic recovery, naturally boosting energy, backed by over 20 years of clinical research, research. And this stuff is something I discovered when I was racing Ironman triathlon. And it just turns out that it is basically the building blocks of life. And I'm not kidding, it's actually essential amino acids, all the ones your body needs because your body is 50% amino acids. And the building blocks that amino acids give you. They're absolutely fundamental, not only for fitness but for recovery, for satiating your appetite. Helps me to sleep better. It allows me to go for really long periods of time without eating oodles of calories. It's like the Swiss army knife of supplementation. It's called Aminos Kion Aminos. K I O N you go to getkion.com ben to get this stuff at 20% off of monthly delivery and 10% off of a one time purchase. Fantastic flavors. I personally like the berry, the watermelon and the mango flavor. Those would be the top three to try in my opinion. And you just put it in water. I mean I dump the powder straight into my mouth pre workout and it's like a shot in the butt to go out and crush a workout. But it's great for a whole lot of stuff besides just a shot in the butt. So check them out. Getkeon.com Ben get K-I-O-N.com Ben to get my fundamental supplement for fitness, Kion Aminos. All right. This is cool. You can join Team Ben Greenfield Life. We're currently hiring. You can check out our careers page at BenGreenfieldLife.com careers we got an editorial position available. It's the editorial assistant for Ben Greenfield Life. You get to assist with and execute the full editorial strategy. That means things like blog, email, social media, copywriting, collaborate across different departments on all the written content. Ensure that we have timely and appropriate development and delivery of digital content that conforms to editorial style. Because I can't do that on my own, Lord knows all I can do is write. I'm horrible at managing the rest of it. I need an editorial assistance. We're hiring one. BenGreenfieldLife.com Careers is where you can apply. We have a very creative and inspirational network and team. We live to empower people to live their bold, purpose filled and adventurous life with help, hope, happiness and love. And our team is amazing and super fun. Super fun to work with. So check it out. Go to BenGreenfieldLife.comCareers if you think you got the chops for this new editorial assistant position. Do you think that would be superior to just like Because I interviewed a guy named Dr. John Laurence about this to regular higher dose melatonin consumption or supplementation.

Well, don't get me wrong, I love melatonin. I've taken it for many, many years myself. And I've often said to people that if you were put on a desert island and you could only take three things with you to do with your health. I would suggest that, and I'm not the only one, that melatonin would be one of them. Okay, we, you could argue we've got something else now. There is something else. I'm sorry if I'm going down a different rabbit hole here for you and me, if I am. But I mean, no, this is, this.

Is all super interesting. Keep going.

Oh, thank you. There is a. The work of Professor Writer that's E I T E R from the States. And he and his team discovered that tumors, cancer, tumors only grow in the daytime. That's pretty profound. I think a lot of cancer research off. And of course one of the things that popped up early is there is of course a hormone that is in us during day, during darkness, at its peak between 1 o' clock and 3 o' clock in the morning. And that's melatonin. But it's not there in the daytime. And we do know that melatonin is one of the most powerful, if perhaps not the most powerful antioxidant that we manufacture ourselves and Dodgers. So with that in mind, why it has this effect? Because what am I going to say? People like Dr. Frank Shallenberger from. And you can go and Find Frank on YouTube. Great guy. He has a clinic in Nevada and he and others, but predominantly Frank has perhaps been most vocal started giving their patients what can only be described as mega doses of melatonin. And this is what because they found in Reuter had found the analysis in the daytime, which of course is not the time that any of us would normally take melatonin. If you're going to take a melatonin supplement, you take it before you go to bed. They found the cancer tumors. Not saying they reversed, but evidence is they stop growing. A number of patients taking somewhere between 180 to 240 milligrams of melatonin in daytime. And here's the crazy thing they're doing.

You broke up there for a second. You were talking about daytime melatonin supplementation. But I think it's super interesting because I did have a little discussion with Dr. Lawrence about this and I'll link to it in the show notes. By the way, everybody, the show notes are at BenGreenfieldLife.com M I C A N S and he pointed out the fact that even if you're using daytime melatonin and he actually has both a suppository and an oral version, that as long as photons of light are hitting the retina, you don't get the fatigue or the sleepiness that you'd expect from daytime melatonin supplementation.

Yeah, that could be. In fact, one of the ways I advise patients is if they've overdosed on their melatonin and they're feeling very drowsy in the morning, I said, get out and get the sunlight. Just get out and get the sunlight. And that drowsiness will soon dissipate. There are a few other things. Dr. Terry Hertog does a great series on hormones. He's one of the world experts in hormones, no doubt about that. And he has a whole way of improving melatonin. I mean, caffeine, for example, suppresses melatonin production. So don't drink too much caffeine, things like that. But what I wanted to point out was the writer's work and Frank Shallenberg's work. Messages of melatonin could be a very significant. So that's, that's exciting, obviously, but it's also showing the power of the pineal, essentially. That's really what I wanted to point out. Brian, light studies again. I seem to spend a lot of my time looking at their stuff that doesn't affect melatonin production. Because one of the classic problems is if we go to bed at night and we don't put ourselves in a black room, that is, we've got two thin curtains and the street light or our partner is reading a book or whatever is of course, any light entering the light, it will destroy our own melatonin production. So that's, that's an issue. But with the exception of one light, according to the Russian studies, and that's lunar light. And when you think about it, that's not unusual, is it? Because when our forebears were roaming around looking for food and then night came and they slept under the trees, we'd have been surrounded by moon and starlight, wouldn't we? So that kind of light doesn't affect our melatonin production. So there we are.

This is super interesting. Now we've got the Penny Allen that you talked about and the epithalamine which was the big anti aging one. It sounds like those two alone would be fantastic. But then there's all sorts of others. There's thymolin for the thymus, there's cortexin for the cerebral cortex, there's retinalimin, and correct me if I'm wrong. So how many different peptide bioregulators are there that you're aware of?

Well, that commercially there are 21. And then there are also now beginning to be Combinations of them as well. So that's beginning to happen. So rather than just taking one peptide, but they might have ones with. Mixed with two or three. So they are growing in number almost daily.

Okay. So when you take these bioregulators, it's my understanding that they actually go to and act upon the cells that are related to the different organs that each of the peptide bioregulators is indicated for. Yeah, how does that even have. How is it that the bioregulators know where to go, so to speak? Does that make sense?

No, I know it does make sense. And again, if anyone wants to go through your website there, Ben, and come in and get the videos, you can see Professor Cavinson showing some of his remarkable slides. In fact, the audience was. Was wearing 3D glasses at one point, which made it even more interesting. But basically, these peptides, they're nano. That's the first thing to remember to know about them. They're, you know, they're small, in other words, and they interact directly with DNA. They go directly to the DNA, but they're not changing DNA. Let's, let's make sure that's not the case. It's changing DNA method. They are actually act as gene switches so that either. And they can. And because of the bioregulation part of it, as described earlier, they're either activating or genes. Okay. And of course, it's those genes that are specific to the organ in question. Okay, so it's a. It's a. I've got to tell you, I hope you don't mind me, I've got to tell you one of my favorite stories. Okay. I've got to tell you the moment of my awakening, my epiphany, if you will. Okay, so back in 1980, when I did my first degree in London and I did what was called then food and vitamin technology. Vitamin technology, sorry, British colloquialism thing in there. The professor put up on the, on the board a pie chart, and he said, this is what you typically find in food. And then we had certain percentages, right? So there was a certain percentage of vitamins and then minerals and then oils, which I prefer to call them oils, and fat and fiber and so on. Fiber was the biggest part of the pie chart. It was something like 55%, something like that. And in 1980, nobody was really strong on fiber. Okay, I know things are different now, but I had a little thought in my mind that day and I said to myself, gosh, that's a lot of fiber. I believe that nature Wastes nothing. Why is there so much fiber in food? What's the importance of fiber? That was one thought I had. The second thought I had was, or maybe there's some other stuff in food that they don't know about that does other things. So fast Forward to about 2008 or so when I first heard Professor Cavinson lecture. And I was in Istanbul and I heard him lecture and he described these short chapters and epigenetic control, their gene switches found within food. And for me, it was the light bulb moment because I suddenly took me back to that day in London when I said to myself, there are other things in food, and explained genetics in a heartbeat to me. And I was so dumbfounded by it that it came up to the coffee break after his lecture. I actually just sat in the auditorium trying to dig, guess what? I just. And that on the path to today, where I've tried to find out as much as I can about these things. So they're very fundamental. They're very fundamental. They come right down to the core, as it were.

Now with each of the different bioregulators targeting specific organs. In the past, when I've tried peptide bioregulators because they're not something that I've used regularly. But you know, at one point Dr. Cook had me try some, at another point that, well, you had sent me a few. But the instructions that I received when I got peptide bioregulators was like, take them all. You basically. And so you're swallowing like 30 different capsules that target each of these specific organs. And it seems like a lot of stuff to take. Is that considered to be like a gold standard anti aging or longevity or full body support program, is to just get all the bioregulators and take, you know, all, all 21 of them. Because it's like, you know, four to six capsules, 21 different bioregulars. It seems like a lot of stuff to take.

No, I, I don't think the average person needs to go to that extreme. I think life is the same whatever we look at, right? It's. It comes down to cost and convenience, whatever it is in life, we're challenged by cost and convenience. And one of the challenges with anti aging, and maybe it will always be the case, who knows, is where do you start and where do you stop? Because, you know, how far do you want to go? Now I'm aware that in Dr. Lawrence's trials that some of his patients are consuming somewhere in the region of 120 boxes of different peptide bioregulators every year. Now, each box has 20 capsules. They'll come into the dosing when you want, but those. Either the people who don't mind the cost and inconvenience of that, or they've got systemic problems. However, I would suggest. And of course, it does somewhat depend on how ill you are, if you have a patient that's truly ill, obviously that is going to be a much more extreme program. If you have someone who's generally fit and healthy but wants to put an edge on it or keep it that way, then the numbers go down dramatically. And one of the really good bits of news about these peptide bioregulators is because they act essentially as gene switches, you do not need to take them every day. Okay? So, okay, my particular program, and I would suggest that a lot depends how old you are as well. I mean, I'm in my. I'm in my 60s, so I'm going to be taking more than some guys in his 30s, right? So. But essentially, what you've got to think about as a typical program would be two capsules a day, okay, ten days a month. So you're not taking them every single day. All right? Now, if you are generally in decent shape and you just keep an edge on it, that same regimen that two capsules a day for 10 days can be done every three months. So now we're getting really into quite small numbers, okay? And I have heard of people going down to six months, all right? So you don't need to take these. I think the only people who would take them every day is when they've got some relatively serious condition that they want to address, and we can get into some of the deep clinicals if you want. So then the challenge becomes. Okay, understood. We only need 20 capsules a month or every two months, or even every three months. Which ones do I take? Well, like everything in life, if we think a human being is a machine, a very complicated machine, but nonetheless a machine, like all machines, we are as strong as our weakest part. So if one can know where your weak points are, okay? And obviously, I'm sure you've done many podcasts on understanding one's health, so I won't go there. But if you know what your weak points are, or if you don't know what your weak points are, do you know what your family's weak points are? You know, diabetes, cancer, heart disease, whatever it is, you can kind of focus on that. And so you can. You can guide yourself on the necessary. On the necessary peptides. So in other words, you don't need all 21 of them. Okay, so, but I would suggest these are the three I take regularly because of the original Soviet studies, very large studies that showed, you know, one, reducing morbidity and mortality to one third. Principally, there were three peptides, and those three peptides were the pineal, which we've discussed, the blood vessel, which kind of makes sense because if you're improving blood flow in the body, what doesn't it help? And the thymus. And of course the thymus.

And what's, what's the, what's the blood.

Vessel one called the. Oh, you're gonna catch me out there, Venford. Oh, got it. Okay.

Okay.

So. So, you know, so. And you've also got the thymus as well. And of course, I'm sure you're probably aware of the work of Dr. Greg Farhey in rejuvenating the thymus.

Which was.

With growth hormone in that case. But of course, the thymus holds a kind of special place because it is the first gland to a trophy in age, and it typically happens as we reach puberty. So some people say that is the signal, you know, the theory. Why do we age? Why do, why do things deteriorate? Well, if you reach puberty, you've become of reproductive age. Nature doesn't want you anymore. That's a theory. And the first gland to start shrinking is the thymus. And of course, if you have a healthy thymus, you've got good immunity. And by the way, the thymus produces 13 thymic hormones, all of which are peptides.

Wow, interesting. Okay, so those three, the one for the blood vessels, the one for the pineal gland, and the one for the thymus would be, if you were going to do like 10 days out of the month, the ones that you think would be the best to take.

Yeah, that's what I do.

Okay.

And I find it easy because what I do, you know, because we've all got our regimens in the morning and, and I get up and I've got my peptide bioregulates there, and I know I'm taking one that day, so I've got two capsules and then once I've got rid of that box, that 20 capsules, I'm on to the next one. So. I know, I know some months have got more than 30 days in them, but I can almost wake up every month and say, what's my peptide bioregulator for today?

Okay. Yeah. And you, you aren't taking all three at the same time, then you're you're taking one for, for on one day, and then you. And after 10 days, you switch to the next one.

You got it? Okay. Now the only other thing I do on top of that, Ben, and I say this is, you know, this can change from person to person. I'm not saying to everybody out there, this is absolutely the thing for you. And you know, every three months, I try and do a bit of a detox. Okay, go into that if you want me to do other things. But as part of that detox, on that third month, I will add three more peptide bioregulators, and I add the liver, the kidney, and because of my own personal weakness, I add the pancreas.

Okay? Okay, got it. And by the way, for those of you listening and I am taking notes, and I'll put all this in the show notes so you guys can kind of see what Phil's protocol looks like. Now, a lot of people who have taken peptides before, they have to inject them, you know, draw them up into an insulin syringe and sometimes reconstitute. Why is it that you don't need to inject these bioregulars is that the size is so small, they're just very well, orally absorbed.

Yes, they are. And the studies have been done because of course that's the classic problem, you know, is that it's. Well, again, I've got a little story here for you. You know, say a bodybuilder, for example, they're going to consume a lot of protein. Now, if they want to do that through food, then they're going to eat a lot of steak or a lot of salmon or whatever. But the question is, how does the bodybuilder put on that muscle mass when in theory, all that protein is destroyed in the stomach, right, because the chain's too long. And I think the answer to that protein gets broken down into peptide bioregulators, because we know that some of these peptide bioregulators induce protein synthesis. That's what they do. So it is fundamentally because they are very small. They're very small in terms of the chain, two, three or four amino acids. And they're actually the molecules are very small because they're nano sized. So and the Russians have all the studies that show that they are absorbed. So the reason that the peptide bioregulates are most fascinating is can they be injected? Yes, they can be injected. Are they more potent if they're injected? Yes, they're more potent if they're injected. However, they are bioactive Orally. So that's the good news of them.

Okay, interesting. Now, there's also this whole field of organ extracts. You know, there's companies like, probably one of the most popular is like, ancestral supplements. There's other companies like Heart and Soil or Paleo Valley, and they sell spleen and pancreas and thyroid and heart and brain and bone marrow. And you're supposed to take these supplements based on the hypothesis of like supports like that each of these different organs and the peptides contained within those organ supplements are going to travel to the desired area, very similar to what we were just talking about with bioregulators and support that area. Now, why would someone not just use like an organ extract supplement instead of a peptide bioregulator?

Okay, well, you know, it takes us back to the question. I view health as a pyramid. And you've got a base of that pyramid. And that base is big, obviously, because the base of pyramid, and that's where we should be doing all the things we all know, eat good food, you know, exercise regularly, lead a good lifestyle, etc. Etc. And then as you go up the pyramid, you can start to add in until you get to the tip of the pyramid where you might be talking about, you know, stem cells and goodness knows what. So it all started, I mean, we could take that one step back, Ben, and say, well, why don't you just eat good food? So, and of course, that's fundamental, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Just very briefly, there was a guy called Weston Price who back in the 20s, 30s and 40s, went around the world looking for native tribes, you know, tribes that have long since disappeared now and studied their lifestyles. And he found, for example, that tribes that ate the necks of animals had very, very little thyroid issues. So that leads us to presume that by consuming the thyroid itself, that they were helping themselves to improve their own thyroid conditions. And that leads us back to organ extracts. Right, because that's, that's what they are. And of course, in the 20s and 30s, and organ extracts were de rigor. They were the thing that the, the innovative physician then would have been giving you. And they make improvements. There's no, there's no doubt about that. And I would hazard a guess that when you take the food or when you take the extract, you are getting some of these peptide bioregulators. But of course, if you take the concentrated peptide bioregulator, you're getting a very concentrated form and a very pure form. So, you know, it's a bit like Saying, I'm going to try and put it in. I always use car analogies. I try to. There's nothing wrong with a Ford, right? It's going to get you around town, it's going to do the job. But the Ferrari is going to be that bit better, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. You're just basically, you're getting a little bit more efficiency and probably more bioavailability with the smaller bioregulators. Now you implied that, of course, these are big in Russia and have been for some time. And when you go over to the US and you order peptides, let's say online, there is a lot of fear that they might be tainted, that they might not have in them what they say they have in them. And I think that, that just like, almost like the underground steroid industry or something like that, they're rife with corruption. And so in many cases people will go to a physician and the physician will prescribe them the peptide. And there are some websites that reportedly sell decent peptides, like Can Labs or Peptide Sciences, for example. When it comes to bioregulators, is it kind of the same thing? Like, do you have to be careful where you actually purchase these things? Because if I were to do a Google search for peptide bioregulators, I could find probably a dozen different, different sites that sell these things.

Well, I can't argue with that. And you're absolutely right, I'm not going to speak for bioregulates, but the peptide field is a bit wild west at the moment. And when you see a site that is selling vials of powder and clearly states that they're not for human use and for research and development only, what backups have you got? What security have you got? Because I can assure you there'll be no liability insurance on that site because no insurer will give you that when you make such statements. So obviously you're going to have links on your site, Ben, where people can get the real thing. So I'll leave that to that. But yes, there are different outlets selling it. I mean, there's specific packaging. Here in England we have a brand that's called Nature's Marbles and it's all produced at ISO, cgmp standards standards. And of course they're still made in, they are made in Russia to those standards. And I've seen, I've been over there and seen it for myself. So because you can argue that the peptide bioregulators, at least in Eastern Europe are already in a mass market situation, I Can't speak for every single company because, you know, we'd have to take one each one as it comes along. But what I think is exciting is it looks likely in the coming year or two that more countries, and including the States, where these correct products will be actually on the market officially. So, you know, that's about the nearest we can get to knowing that the companies that are producing them are doing it to all the correct standards. One thing I should point out that I think is very exciting is with. With only very, very few exceptions, the Russians estimate that they have treated over a million, if that's the right word, over a million people with these peptide virubates. Okay. So it has enormous use. In fact, Professor Cavinson told me that something like 100 million capsules of peptide bioregulators have been consumed. Wow. In humans. So with that in mind, they've seen no side effects. Isn't that fascinating? No. Such amazing.

Well, well, they're. They're just. They're. They're so small, you know, and of course, they're. They're so precise. You know, we're talking about, you know, something like. Almost like a robotic, minimally invasive surgery versus a, you know, a bloody butcher fest. So, yeah, that doesn't surprise me that they're not associated with those type of side effects. So now when it comes to your protocol, you talked about how you're doing these bioregulators and then occasionally throwing in, like a detoxification bioregulator, support for the liver and the kidney. You have this whole magazine, the Aging Matters magazine. You obviously did that conference. You talked to a lot of people in the industry who. I'm just kind of curious. Are there other things besides bioregulators that are big wins for you in the anti aging department that you've come across and all the discussions that I'm sure you've had the opportunity to have.

Well, you can imagine, Ben, I get sucked into all kinds of rabbit holes, and sometimes they're fads and sometimes they get traction. I mean, there are a lot of biochemical pathways. I mean, a hottie at the moment, of course, is to improve NAD levels since the work of David Sinclair. I love the work. I love what Bill Fallon does at Life Extension. He's always on the ball, showing people the way forward. And he has what he describes as the stair step approach to biological age control. And there are a number of steps on that. So, for example, I think step one actually is to activate AMPK and the number one drug to do that. Is metformin, so which is in two clinical trials at the moment, as I'm sure you know. So I mean there are other things that will activate ampk. It doesn't have to be. Yeah, yeah.

Dihydro bear brain is another good one. Gynostema, also gynostema is that, that one kind of flies under the radar. Is also a really, really good amp K precursor. So yeah, there are, there are alternatives to metformin, of course, which is good for people who don't want to get that slight decrease in VO2 max or mitochondrial production or you know, for people who get stomach upset on it. But yeah, anything that increases amp K, I, I agree. That's got a really potent anti aging effect.

Yes. And then you've got NAD as another plan. I'm sure you know, the supplements like NMM and nr, it's quite controversial at the moment because of what's going on in the States. I'm sure you know about that.

Yeah. You mean the breast cancer scare about NR associated with breast cancer?

Well, there's also pressure by the FDA to remove NMM from the marketplace as a supplement because a company has put in an IND for it. So they say, well, if somebody wants to make it a drug, it can't be a supplement. So that's going on as well. Another step would be senescence. You know, how to remove senescent cells from the body. And again, you've got different substances here. You know, you've got your quisetin or your fisetin or, or you've got drugs like dasatinib. Of course, another step which is gaining a lot of interest from the, especially from the sort of research community is mtor and, and the big drug there, of course, that everyone's kind of hot to trot on is rapamycin. And there's a whole bunch of other stuff in the middle, you know, whether it's resveratrol or other things.

Yeah, but what about practices? I mean, obviously like nad, ampk, peptide bioregulators and some of the antiseinescent compounds. These I think are all pretty well proven and in many cases well known for their longevity enhancing properties. But what about any lifestyle practices whether it's hyperbaric or infrared light or specific forms of exercise. Do you dabble around with any of those type of things for the people who are going to say, what can I do besides popping pills?

Oh, absolutely. No, no, don't, don't get me wrong. I'm not here as a pill pusher. You know, we just happen to be talking about this specific subject. Yeah, you're absolutely right. There are always natural ways. I mean, like, if we look at telomeres as one example, although it seems to be very hard to extend telomeres, there are plenty of processes that will, you know, not make them shorten as quickly. And that can be from good exercise, good food, and various vitamins as well have been shown in that department. There's one story I'd like to tell you, Ben, which normally staggers people when they hear it, and it's very simple and is something that nearly everyone can do for very, very little cost or no cost at all, Although it mainly affects men more than women. But men up to the age of about 50 have twice the risk of a heart attack or a stroke, as opposed to women of the same age. Okay. But past the age of about 50, women catch us up and even overtake us. So what's going on? Well, what's going on is, of course, up to about the age of 50, women eventually go through menopause, and of course, their menstrual cycle stops. So. Okay, I know we can argue that their change in estrogen, they lose some of the protection that estrogen offers them in that regard. But by stopping their menstruation, two other things are going on. Their menstrual cycle, two other things are going on. One, they are not releasing some toxins every month. Okay, can argue that. And they're not thinning their blood because by the release of blood, we're forcing our bone marrow to produce more blood. Okay, let's take that for a moment. All right, fair enough. Well, what about men? Well, here are the figures. If you go to the blood bank and you donate a pint of blood every six months, the statistics show that a man halves his risk of a heart attack or stroke just by donating a pint of blood every six months. And that goes. That follows in line with what the ladies are doing. The ladies are giving a little bit every. Every month. We have to give a little bit more every six months. And it's blood thinning, so that's quite high on my list. Okay.

Yeah. And by the way, I think that you can get some of those effects through both endurance exercise and regular use of a sauna. Just because you also see some red blood cell turnover and kind of like a staving off of some of the accumulation of iron from both of those practices as well. You know, I don't give blood much, but I do. I have a pretty robust sauna practice. You know infrared sauna four to five times a week and also engage in frequent aerobic exercise. And I think that helps out quite a bit as well.

Totally agree, Ben. I'm a sauna addict. I don't go quite as often as you, but I try and go once a week and so. Absolutely. And of course the sauna, the sweat is taking out a lot of, a lot of things as you, I think you said, you mentioned lead and iron and things like that as well. So that's all, that's all good stuff to do. And the infrared, it's also very effective. So. Yeah, absolutely, those are. And sweating in general, if you go and do aerobic exile, you're going to sweat. So that's going on as well. So. No, that's a very simple thing. There are other things, of course. I would. Anyone interested in this subject, I would say go and look at the book of the. Unfortunately, it's the late cardiologist Kenneth Kenzie, American cardiologist, and he wrote a book some years old now called the Blood Thinner Cure. And he looked at all, he evaluated all the kind of markers in blood that the doctors look for to, you know, cholesterol, homocysteine, triglycerides, C reactive protein and so on and so on and so on. And at the end of the book, he basically came out and he said the two most biggest risk factors for having a heart attack or stroke, bar none, were your blood viscosity and your arterial stiffness. So in other words, if you have relatively thin blood and you have relatively soft arteries, your risk of heart attack or stroke is minimal, despite any other marker. And as we've already talked about giving blood or, you know, saunas or using enzymes, I'm a big fan of enzymes. I personally use lumbrokinase, which I'm sure you know is the earthworm enzyme, seems to be very effective. So that's one of my favorites.

And I do chelation and I do quite a bit of that as well. We do one of my supplement companies, Kion, we have a product with proteolytic enzymes and serrapeptase and silkworm extract in it. And that's a very similar effect. I like that at higher doses for break down biofilm, but then at lower doses. Yeah, for some of the fiber and clot reduction effects, it's. It's a pretty powerful supplement.

Yeah. All right, that's a nice one. We can't get that in Europe because it's a novel food, but that's another story. Yeah, but no, that's all, that's all good stuff. So there are simple things that folks can do with to little to no cost. I think you even get paid in the States to donate blood, don't you? We only get tea and biscuits. Yep. Yeah.

Donate all sorts of. All sorts of fluid for some extra cash. Well, you know you have quite the protocol now this Aging Matters magazine, I would imagine you report a lot of this stuff in that. Is that a print magazine or is that online only?

No, it's both Ben. It is online and online. It's free. You can download it for nothing. We recently have started selling them on as print so they're $10 a copy if anyone wants them. And so you could actually use the website and go through to a store where you can get those. And we don't charge for mailing so it's $10 wherever you live in the world.

Okay.

Yeah, we've done about, we've done about 40 or maybe more now. 45 and I, I try to do them every quarter. Of course in the last couple of years that didn't quite go to plan but then we all know what happened in the last couple of years. Yeah, but we have, we did have a recent, a very recent copy which we, which we. On the front cover is called Hacking Aging with Peptides is a deep delve and that's really reporting on what Bill Lawrence is study has been showing with these peptides.

Yeah, I'm looking at the COVID now. It looks like you got Jonathan Wright discussing niacinamide and Ward Dean Bill Lawrence about biological age and yeah, Hacking age peptides, very cool. So that would be a good one for people to download for even more on the peptides. And then I'm also going to link to your website and some of these fantastic books you've written. The Peptide bioregular revolution would be a really good one for people to wrap their heads around this as well. I'm still working on putting together the sourcing for the peptide bioregulators and I'll put that in the show notes as well. And so I'll put all this over at BenGreenfieldLife.com M I C A N S for any of you who want to take a deeper dive or if you want to ask your questions or your comments, you have more feedback for filler I you can pop in over there and, and ask away. But I personally plan on getting back onto some kind of a well structured bioregulator protocol. So I may go through my notes especially after you laid out your protocol Fill and probably start back into something just because the couple of times I have done it, I actually felt really fantastic as far as energy and sleep and recovery. And so then honestly, for a little bit of time, I started getting into organ extract supplements as well. But you've reinitiated my interest in these bioregulators. So I'm going to have to jump back on the bandwagon because they're just absolutely fascinating. And I think that the research, especially all this Russian research that commits and does, it doesn't lie. So. So I appreciate you coming on the show and sharing all this stuff with us.

No, Ben, it's, it's been fantastic. Really enjoyable and I don't know how much time we have left because I didn't tell you about the eyesight side of the equation, but.

Oh yeah, actually just, just real quick, we got, we got a few minutes because you did send me over some of those eye drops and you know, my eye eyesight's great, knock on wood. But my wife started using them and I told her that they had some good research on them for saving or improving vision. But what exactly are the eye drops?

Yeah, well, what you're talking about is can see, which is an eyedrop containing N acetylcarnazine, which is a peptide, a dipeptide. And believe it or not, this is also Russian research, although a different institute. And what they've been doing in Russia is basically reversing cataract with them. So the clinical trials have shown that people who put two drops twice a day in their eyes for sort of five, six months, at least about 80 to 89% of the people, because like most things in life, it doesn't necessarily work for everybody, will actually either reduce or even remove their cataracts. So.

Wow.

And the Russians designed it specifically as a non surgical approach because one of the problems with cataract, as the world is aging, we all know there's more older people on the planet. They woke up and said, hang on, we may not even have. It's so prevalent, like 1 in 5 people over 50 get cataracts. They were worried they wouldn't even have enough surgeons to do the operations every day. So this is where that research came from. All this is described in another little booklet. I hope you've got a copy of it called Eyesight Saviors.

Yeah, I got that one. I didn't read it yet, but it's over here on my shelf.

Great. And in there are also the peptides for the eyesight. And you're going to be flabbergasted at that, which. Which is including reversal of age related macular degeneration and also a rather rare but almost untreatable eye disease called retinosal pigmentosa. And all being reversed in. In Russian. In Russian clinics with these peptides.

Wow. Wow. And for those, those eyedrops, you just apply them daily?

Yeah, just apply daily. They do have other benefits. It's not just senile cataracts, as it's called. It also can reduce glaucoma and if we've got time to explain why, but some effect in there. And also quite effective for people suffering with diabetic retinopathy as well.

Interesting. Okay, so. So these are. And those aren't bioregulators. That's like a mix of different vitamins and nutrients for the eyes, right?

Well, it is a peptide, but it's not being classified as a bioregulate. It's basically getting back to. One of my favorite peptides actually is carnosin. Not to be confused with Karna Tin. Yeah, Zinn. But you have to use the N acetylated. You can't make carnosine up into an eye drop and put it in your eye. It won't get into the eye. So you have to use a very specific form. So it gets it because. Because of course, the lens is sitting within a capsule surrounded by a fluid called the aqueous humor. So you have to get the carnosine into that. Into that place.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, got it. Well, I'll link to those eye drops as well for people who want. And they're called can see, right?

That's right, yeah.

Okay, cool. So if you go to BenGreenfieldLife.com micans it'll take me a while to take. I always write down all these notes while I'm chatting, but I'll pull them all together and they'll all be over there for you guys. And you can also, of course, ask any of your follow ups over there. Phil, thanks so much for coming on the show and sharing all this stuff with us. Your wealth of knowledge and I can't wait to take a deeper dive into your magazine and some of these other resources you talked about.

Ben, it's been an absolute pleasure. I've thoroughly enjoyed it and I hope to get to meet you in person one of these days.

I hope so too. That'll be fun. Maybe I'll make it over there to Russia. That's a place I've wanted to visit for some time anyway. So is that where you guys are doing the Conference in Russia or is it just over in Europe?

No, no, we're doing well at the moment. Of course, you know, it's difficult to do anything over there. No, we're doing the conferences, our own personal conferences in England. Oh. So that makes life a little bit easier.

Okay.

I do travel a bit when you and I chat privately. I can tell you my private schedule if you want to meet me up. I'm gonna probably be in Bahamas in April and other places around all around the States.

Okay. Well, I'm sure our paths are going to cross in we have a lot of, a lot of mutual interests and friends. So in the meantime though, for those of you listening in BenGreenfieldLife.com mic until next time, I'm Ben Greenfield along with Phil Mikens signing out from BenGreenfieldLife.com have an amazing week. One thing you should know that's super cool is that on the evening of March 11th in Sedona, I'm hosting a VIP dinner that's catered by me and my family using a bunch of biohacked recipes from my boundless cookbook, live music, an intimate Q and A, and an absolutely unforgettable once in a lifetime taste but entertaining experience where you just come and hang out with me. Regardless of whether or not you go to the event that I'll be teaching at there at Shine in Sedona from March 10th through the 12th, you're in for the VIP dinner with only 25 seats available, things going to fill up fast. The VIP dinner. Only a select few. We want to keep this small, intimate, but super fun with amazing food. So if you want to get on the VIP dinner as a part of this event that I'm doing down in sedona, go to BenGreenfieldSpeaking.com Sedona-Dinner BenGreenfieldSpeaking.com forward/sedona-Dinner. More than ever these days, people like you and me need a fresh, entertaining, well informed and often outside the box approach to discovering the health and happiness and hope that we all crave. So I hope I've been able to do that for you on this episode today. And if you liked it or if you love what I'm up to, then please leave me a review on your preferred podcast listening channel, wherever that might be, and just find the Ben Greenfield life episode. Say something nice. Thanks so much. Means a lot.