The Shocking Truth About You Getting "EMF'D": 5G, Wi-Fi & Cell Phones - Hidden Harms & How To Protect Yourself

On this episode of the Ben Greenfield.

Fitness Podcast, ad agencies owns every one of them and they have Google Ads and they sell ads for drugs. So they'll have an article about a condition and they'll sell a drug ad right on the same page, which is 100% illegal. If you take someone healthy, they've got their NAD level is going to go down literally 80 to 100 fold. It just doesn't decrease slowly over time and it falls off a cliff. It's actually the industry itself. There's a whole consortium of wireless industry that's behind the scenes.

Explain that to me. Health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show. All right folks, I hope you are not listening to today's episode on any kind of device, phone or computer or anything like that. Cause you're about to get your mind blown by my guest, author of the book emf. Just listen on like a paper cup with a old school cable coming out of it, the way we used to talk on telephones. Because otherwise you're just gonna be scared to death from today's show. It's not that bad. But do listen, do listen with an open ear and an open mind because my guest has written a fantastic book about all things 5G, EM F and beyond and you're going to want to pay attention. All right, so two days ago I sat all afternoon absolutely just slack jawed at this book, brand new book that just came out. Not only slack jawed, but shocked at just chapter after chapter after chapter about everything from 5G to Wi Fi to cell phones. And obviously, as you guys know, I've I' had podcasts in the past. You know, I've interviewed Brian Hoyer who came over to my house and did a big walkthrough of my house and analyzed the EMF and the dirty electricity and all the different things that he could analyze with meters in my home. I also did a podcast with the guy who wrote the Non Tinfoil hat guide to EMF's Nick Pinault, which was also a good show. But as far as the most comprehensive guide that I have ever come across. When it comes to everything that you need to know about EMFs, how to protect yourself and where they're hidden, and how to understand and comprehend this new 5G rollout, there's nothing better than this brand new book that just came out. It has a great title. It's called EMF. EMF'd. I gotta ask my guest on today's show who came up with that title because it's absolutely fantastic. And the author is someone you may be familiar with. He's a multi time repeat guest on this podcast. I'm gonna link to all of his other appearances on this show as well as everything that we talk about in today's show. If you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com EMF as in BenGreenfieldFitness.comEMFD BenGreenfieldFitness.com EEMFD his name is Dr. Joseph Mercola. He's a physician. He's a New York Times best selling author. He's been voted by Huffington Post as the ultimate wellness game changer. He's been all over time magazine, the LA Times, CNN, Fox News, ABC Today, the Dr. Oz Show. He's got one of the most popular websites on the planet when it comes to natural medicine, alternative medicine, unfortunately, a website that I don't even know if we have time to get into this. And today's show has been penalized by Google just for everything that it gets into. That's the type of information that frankly big pharma and beyond does not want you to hear. But fortunately, you've got him right here on the show. And today we're going to delve into this topic that's a hot topic right now and incredibly important for you and your loved ones, the issue with EMFs. So Joe, welcome back to the show, man.

Well, thanks for having me. Yeah, it's great to be here again.

Yeah. And you know, whenever I talk to you, whether you're walking on the beach in your bare feet or whether you're talking on your phone on a selfie stick sometimes, I mean like you're pretty into this idea of not only treating human body as a battery, but also being aware of what might affect that battery's charge in a very profound way. And you know, I'm curious why you actually decided to write an entire book on EMFs.

Well, it's a great question. First of all, the best book on this topic prior to this book, I believe was Nick Pinault's book, who the guest you mentioned earlier, Don Tinfoil Hat. So he and Brian Hoyer both reviewed this book. But what catalyzed me writing it was a deep appreciation a few years ago of the importance of mitochondria nasal function. And then one of my early medical mentors, Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt, who has also been a long time advocate of EMF safety, kind of catalyzed my serious investigation of this. And I connected the two and it's Very clear that EMS just causes massive mitochondrial dysfunction. So I thought that it would be important to do that, to put together the information in a way the public can understand. And I've written about 14 books, but this is my last one. Well, at least five or 10 years, because I've got a new strategy for creating content.

New strategy. Okay, I got to hear about this new strategy. You've always got something new you're up to. I think last time we talked to you, you pulled me into the gym and put these blood flow restriction bands on me and just blasted me with those. Seems you've always got something new up your sleeve. But, you know, this idea of mitochondrial dysfunction, you know, is something that I've harped on over and over again on the show. If you have nutrition and a movement pattern set up, the. Then it all comes down to light and the planet earth and heat and cold and water and minerals. And it really is the mitochondria that are the core of your health. And you realize that EMFs are one of the primary ways our mitochondria get damaged. And not a lot of people are talking about that, like you mentioned. Nick Pinhol is one of the guys. Brian Hoyer is another. But, man, oh, man, there's a huge need for this kind of information to get out there. And before we delve into it, I want to hear about this strategy you're teasing us with for creating content.

Well, just to reinforce the concept of mitochondria, I was just reviewing a study this morning showing an aging cell in December of this year that really stressed the importance of mitochondrial numbers for improving senescent cells. And senescent cells are really sort of the beginning of death of your body because they create this massive inflammatory reaction and secrete inflammatory cytokines.

Well, especially when you're. When you're young, you can arguably benefit from that amount of cellular senescence just because it's a protective biological mechanism. Yeah. The older you get, the role of senescence appears to be linked to a host of chronic diseases.

Yes, indeed. So let me tell you that my strategy for creating content was partially inspired by you, because it's very unusual for someone to create a book that's 1200 pages and has 3000 references, as your new book, Boundless, does. And I was just. That really startled me to hear that. And I said, wow, you know, it was totally different than the strategy I was using. So that was a factor. And then we were both at Mind Share this year, earlier this year with JJ Virgin, actually, and Dave Astri was there, and we were at one of her private parties. And so Dave was having this conversation, and I was in it and talking about Ryan Holiday's perennial seller. Yeah. So I picked up that book, if anyone wants to write a book. I mean, to me, it's just really negligent not to read that book first because it really has some powerful pearls in there.

All of his books, by the way. I mean, Ryan's one of those few authors where if he writes a book, I'll buy it without even reading any reviews or anything. They're that good. His recent book, Stillness is the Key, is amazing. But you read this perennial seller book.

Yes, I did. And a lot of good information there, but essentially is that if you want to create a book that's going to be read for decades, not just the few weeks after you launch it, then you have to put a lot of time and effort into it, exactly what you were doing. And it's got to go through a lot of drafts, because the first few drafts are terrible. And that's what I did with the ZMF book. I mean, it took me three years to write it, just about as long as it took you to write about. And even though it's not 1200 pages, I rewrote the thing five or six times. I mean, it just went through so many different drafts. That's why I really like that product, because it really did follow a lot of Ryan's recommendations. But, you know, I've gotten tired of the process after 14 books, and I've just disenamored with it. So rather than write more books, I decided to write scientific reviews for journals, because I used to do that. I've got like 20 or 30 publications already, but I haven't written one for 20 years. So in the process of doing that, I realized that virtually no one, at least that I'm listening to on the Internet, on podcasts, I've never heard anyone open the kimono and tell people listeners, how they can truly be citizen scientists and not believe what you or I say and go and dig into the research and look it up for themselves. Now, admittedly, that takes time, but you got to know the tools how to do that, and that's what I'd like to share.

Okay, so basically you have this way that you're collecting scientific reviews, because I know the last time I interviewed you, you hinted at some different publications that you subscribe to, and I'll link to that show so people can go back and listen in. But is it like a variant of that? Or what exactly are the resources that you're using?

Well, it is that specifically, but when I discussed it with you, it was in beta version and now they just launched and it's open to the public, so anyone can join. And you can't beat the subscription for each fee. It's free. But one of the reasons I'm doing this content thing is I've got access to an unbelievable science editor. Really one of the most brilliant and humble biochemist and molecular biology people that I know. And he, he is actually going to review the science for me in all these papers. And I actually introduced him to you and you did podcast with him and I actually sent you an that he compiled that you were like and we're impressed with. He's quite the man, Tyler LeBaron.

Oh, dude, Tyler's awesome. I mean, not only because he can run a marathon and deadlift like 400 pounds and was. He was training for the marathon Olympic trials, I think the last time I talked to him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, He's a fit dude, but he's super smart. Last time I saw him, he was at Paleo FX in a suit, cranking out muscle ups and one arm pull ups in between the talks that he was giving. So I'll link to the podcast I did with you if folks want to listen in. But. So Tyler's doing your scientific research now.

If you want, I can give you the link to the Someone recorded those one arm pull ups in his suit in the gym. I can give you a link to that. It was on Instagram or something.

Yeah, I'll put it in the show notes.

Yeah. All right, here's the thing. It's really the secret sauce. It's called RSS feeds and I'm sure you know what that is. But for those who don't, it stands for really simple syndication. And essentially it's an easy way to stay up to date with your favorite websites, blogs, online magazines, or in this case, PubMed, which is the key to the treasures to find out what's the truth in health and science. So it's using this RSS feed. In fact, RSS feeds were what we used basically since the inception of our website. And in 2005, Google launched their own called Google Reader, which is really pretty good. But they took it down six years ago. But we still use versions of that to find the content of our site because it makes it so much easier. But if Google Reader was up, I still wouldn't use it because I mean.

I use, by the way, feedly RSS Feeds.

That is the alternative that we use. We have a subscription to that and it allows you to easily collect and go to all these different sites and just is so much more efficient. Right.

And just to clarify, for listeners, all this means is let's say there's like 12 different blogs that you like to read. Maybe you're not even into reading scientific research articles. You just follow these blogs. You don't want to member every day. Oh, I need to go check, you know, X's blog, Y's blog and Z's blog. You simply have a feed reader installed on your browser tab that allows you to review, receive, notice and aggregate in one spot every single blog post that's released from any RSS feed that you follow or podcast or anything else for that matter, in one single location.

Yeah, that's it. So I love Feedly, but I don't love Google and I recommend, and I'm not going to go deep into it, but I just want everyone to know that Google is the biggest monopoly in the world. And, and they have an agenda. The agenda is not for your purpose. They are, they're stealing your privacy. They're really. I have some devious and nefarious plans for the future and I would strongly, strongly recommend defined alternatives using Google. So that means don't use Google search engine. The best one out there is Quant. Q, W, A N T. Do not use Chrome. Chrome is bad news. Use Brave B, R, A, V E. And Brave actually has the opportunity to, which is, which honors your privacy, doesn't steal it or sell it. And you can use Quant as a search engine through that.

Okay, so you use Brave as your browser and then you use, you use Quant as a search engine within Brave.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, now you, you may need to use Google as a search engine occasion because they do have some nice features, but it shouldn't be your primary search engine.

And that's primarily because of privacy and also because they're blocking the results. They're, they're, they're essentially censoring some of the results that you get.

Yeah, I mean, they're taking, they've, they've not just censored me, they take. I mean, our traffic from the search engines has dropped by 600,000 views a day because they took us out. Now we're still the most visited natural health site on the planet. But it's, you know, it impairs our mission to tell the truth to more people. And it's, it's, it's sad.

There is, by the way, a Very good Reddit thread. Because this is on my radar, I want to do it over the holidays to migrate from Chrome to Brave. There's a good Reddit thread that shows you how to import all your bookmarks and everything like that.

Oh, it's so easy. They're based on the same software platform which is called Chromium. So your favorites transfer your bookmarks. It just like takes a few minutes. So it's not a hard transition at all. But let's get to the good stuff now, which is the RSS feed you can use for PubMed. It never existed. This is essentially the feedly for PubMed. Unbelievable. It's called meta.org, m e t a.org As I said earlier, it used to be in beta for a few years and, and just late this 2019 they opened it up. So it essentially allows you to search for terms you can. I'm. I'm following a hundred different terms in PubMed so that in some terms are. You can be an author like there was an author that. I'm one of my passions now is Carnistine. So I'm following one of the top researchers in Carnosine. He hadn't published an article for two years and yesterday his article pops up and it just. Because it just. It's searching all hundred terms every day. It's crazy.

And do you get those notices into your email inbox or how are you accessing.

It's a separate. It's a cloud based service so you can open a tab on your browser and you just go to that tab and all of articles are there and you can store them, you can read them or delete them or you can store them in a library. It's just unbelievable. Makes compiling your research so much easier. So highly, highly recommended. And then the other thing is, okay, so you find the articles. That's the first step is you got to find them, then you want to read them. Now certainly you can read the abstract, but the abstract is not where the gold is. The nuggets are in the actual study itself, especially if it's a review article and an abstract review article is close to worthless other than tell you what it's going to talk about. So how do you get those? Well, the good thing is about a third of the articles are now free on PubMed, which is a good thing. But there's another tool, actually there's a few tools that you use some of them, if I mention them on your site they probably be taken down so I can't share them. But One is called Research Gate, just like it sounds. Researchgate.com yeah. And if you just go to their site, you can type in the. Not type in, just copy and paste the title of the article and there's a good chance it might come up. And if it's not, well, you'd have to be a member to actually contact the author. But if you are a member and you have to be sort of a published author before they accept you, then you can actually write the authors and they can send you a copy of it, which is really pretty good.

Yeah. Because oftentimes if you're doing a very quick abstract review, you're not seeing whether it's a theoretical paper versus empirical research or original research meta analysis versus systematic review. You can get some of that, but you really cannot delve into your methods like questionnaire and survey versus experimental. When you look at the results, often if you look at the tables and the figures and form your own impression of the findings in the results of a statistical analysis, in many cases it's far different than what you might have expected to see based on the conclusion that they came to in the abstract. And even the discussion and the conclusion section I've seen in many cases a study will make a concrete statement such as proved, whereas hypotheses can be supported, not proven or they'll talk in causal terms. And all the data is correlational. And so. So yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean it can be a game changer to be able to go past the abstracts and actually dig into the research.

So it is really cool and especially when you've acquired a certain depth of knowledge and you can actually make find these connections. I swear it is, it is like going on a treasure hunt. And I get it is like one of my biggest joys life to do this and you know, so I've just started this process and I've written one full paper. It was on blood flow restriction training and I actually just in the process of submitt, submitting it for review now and, and once it gets published I'm going to, I'd like to make it available for your readers and if they want actually I put together a PDF that compiled all that's in lay term that we can publish is you know, that had put some videos and it kind of summarizes what we went over when we were in San Diego and going to blood flow restriction. But just go to bfr.mercola.com and your listeners can download that bfr.mercola okay, I'll.

Link to that shows. By the way, I did. I did a double back to back Tabata set on the Vasper this morning, which is BFR training is just as you do a seven minute warmup and then the first four minutes.

It's not true BFR just to be. Because you're not getting that specific.

Folks, we probably don't have time to rabbit hole too deeply. And folks I'm sure can read your scientific article. It's a little bit more like occlusion than true bfr. But regardless, I've still got a pretty hefty pump on from that workout a couple hours ago.

Wow, that's interesting. If you got a pump, then it probably wasn't.

Yeah, it was definitely, definitely just something. Okay, so let's get back to your book because, you know, this is all fantastic that you've got a different way of writing books and you have a very efficient way of delving through some of these scientific resources. And now you yourself are beginning to publish these scientific papers, which is fantastic. And you also have found alternatives to some of it not getting censored by Google, such as you using this Brave browser with the quant search function. But back to the book. I think that a very, very good place to start is the fact that most people at this point still do not understand how serious a danger EMF is to their health. And I'm curious with folks like Nick and you out there, why that is. Why doesn't the public still accept that EMF is a serious danger to their health?

That is a fantastic question. There's a lot of good reasons for it. So it's not to get frustrated or annoyed with the public because there's so many factors working against them. And it's all deliberate and very targeted in a sophisticated process. But let's go back to 2011, essentially nine years ago, when the World Health Organization actually classified cell phones as a Class 2B carcinogen, which means it's a possible carcinogen. But then just last year in 2018, the National Toxicology Program was this. A $25 million study funded by the NIH actually showed pretty conclusively that cell phone exposure causes cancer, which means It's a Class 1 carcinogen. It causes cancer.

What kind of cancer?

It was brain cancers. And I believe, I think it was. Was that brain cancer? It might have been a gastric cancer though, too. Too. So anyway, It's a Class 1 carcinogen. And the best simple answer though, to the question is that cell phones, without any doubt in my mind, especially after Doing a deep dive on this are the cigarettes of the 21st century. And just like cigarettes, you do not die from immediate exposure. You don't even get sick. Typically you're going to die slowly. Take years, decades, many decades in most cases. And just like tobacco, the companies that are peddling this stuff knew it killed their customers. And interestingly.

You'Re saying the cell phone Companies know that EMFs from cell phones can contribute to cancer or cause cancer.

They absolutely know this. And the evidence will come out in depth.

How do you know they know this?

Because they have the same published study just using the NTP study that was cited. They have the lead project. They actually came up with some pretty disparaging comments on this and he got fired. And they tried to re spin the results of that study, which was initially done to disprove this hypothesis and wound up proving it. So they had to downplay it. But there are thousands and thousands of studies that show this and they have access to this. They know it. It. So eventually, when the, when the state attorney general sue them 20, 30 years from now and the depositions come out, it'll come out in their emails and make it very clear, just like they did with the tobacco companies. So. And the tobacco industry knew this. In 1950, the tobacco industry knew how.

Dangerous cigarettes were, and they figured out a way to ensure that the public was not aware of that knowledge.

Yeah, absolutely. And how did they do it? They hired the best PR firms on the planet. And these PR firms were clever and sophisticated and they did their job. And part of the job is to create doubt and confusion in the public. And that's what they did. In fact, there's several movies on the Merchants of Doubt is one, and books that are written on their specific strategies they use. They create doubt and they create controversy so that they, if some, if some credible scientist comes up, not only do they spin off a dozen other studies from, from scientists that they paid to disparage this and discredit this, but they actually discredit that researcher. And just like Monsanto does and you know, they, they actually get them fired from the position. And you know, it becomes a real challenge because most of these researchers are not rich. I mean, they're living hand to mouth like most people and you know, they lose their position. It's a big, it's a big challenge.

So you're saying like you're, you're saying, would it, would it be a cell phone manufacturer like say Apple or Samsung, or would it be a, a network network like AT&T and Verizon or something like that that would be hiring PR agencies to discredit researchers.

It's actually the industry itself. It's actually. So there's a whole consortium of wireless industry that's behind the scenes.

Explain that to me.

Yeah, it's just. Well, these are the people, the lobbyists who the lobbies are probably one of the biggest thing and part of it and the chief, just to give you an example here, and I'll. In the process of giving this example, I'll explain it. The the other strategy that they use is they capture the federal regulatory agencies with which the tobacco industry never was able to do. You had the epa, the Surgeon General, the CDC, all warning people about smoking. And despite those warnings, they still considered, they still continued successfully selling them for another 20 or 30 years. So that the wireless industry is much smarter. They have captured the federal regulatory agents. And as an example of this, the chief lobbyist for the wireless industry, Tom Wheeler, was appointed by President Obama for four years to be the head of the fcc, which is the most egregious example of the fox guarding the henhouse. And in fact just Yesterday Ben, the FCC announced that they're going to spend $6 billion billion with a B to spread 5G in rural communities.

I want to talk later on about why that's an issue because it frickin scares me right now and I do want to get into that. But essentially I know that one organization I believe you talked about, that organization in the book was the National Cable and Telecommunications association, which I think is now the Internet and Television association, but used to be the National Cable and Telecommunications Association. That back I told you my boys about this and it pissed them off. Little 11 year old boys. I told them about the Telecommunications act of 1996 after I read your book. That basically gives this enormous concession to the wireless industry that basically silences our say in where and how these wireless infrastructures are built. And there's a section there that I think essentially it says that no state or local government can in any way regulate where towers get placed and how things are constructed. Any modification of personal like wireless service facilities, essentially it means that the telecommunications industry is able to install cell towers wherever they want.

And the point you left out was even if it's based on documented health problems or complications. So that law that was passed in 1996, the Telecommunications act is essentially the equivalent in the vaccine world of the Vaccine Coming Compensation act, which essentially got passed in 1985.

Careful how much you say the word vaccines because all my Podcasts get transcribed. I don't want to get penalized by Google like you did.

Yeah. So you know, it really changed that. Federal legislation essentially immunized all the vaccine manufacturers from any legal action, even if.

The vaccines were shown to be harmful.

Yeah, unless it was intentional, which is this is rare, small little area that they're liable for, but it's essentially almost non existent. So they can kill people to the cows, come home and never be held liable for it.

Yeah. And again, the goal for this podcast, for those of you listening in, is not necessarily to give you the complete rundown on how cell phones are truly the cigarettes of the 21st century, which I am convinced is the case after reading Joe's book. It's to instead give you a little bit of a background. You'll get his book to delve into the long story about how the telecommunications industry is working with PR agencies and lobbyists to discredit researchers and to essentially shove a lot of this research. And I dug into the research after looking at Joe's book and there is indeed a lot of evidence in terms of the biological damage of this stuff. And I think we'll have a chance to explain a little bit of that today about specifically I want to talk about how it affects things like NAD pathways and some of the things that I know that my listeners are concerned with. But you know, the way I explain this to my boys, again, because I try to pass on the knowledge of what I read in my books to my children, I think that's one of the best things you can do if you're going to spend all your time reading, you might as well, you know, at least educate your loved ones and those around you. And they actually get, they get $30 for any book that they take off my shelf that has about bunch of pages folded over. If they write a one page report on that book, then they get $30 and that's just the way they can make money anytime they want. They go to my library, grab any book, anyone that has all the pages folded over and they'll get paid to read it. But what I explained to them was that the problem is that arguably cell phones are a bigger issue than cigarettes because even though there's some second hand smoke from cigarettes, you can largely escape most of the biological damage from cigarettes with air filters, with avoiding, you know, buildings where people are smoking, etc. But with cell phones, because the towers are now everywhere and with this 5G rollout which I want to talk with you about, you can't escape it. Like, like you have no option when that airplane is landing that metal tube and 75 people switch on their cell phones, all with one bar of reception, and the WI FI signal now is going on the airplane the entire time. Like that's just one single example that, that I'm exposed to a lot. But you, you can't escape it now. It's, it's not like cigarettes where you can just walk away.

Absolutely. Couldn't, Couldn't. Said it better. No question it's pervasive and it's getting worse and no question it's getting worse. And we'll talk about that. And it's like 5G is coming. Everyone has heard about that.

That's what I really want to talk about. Because although there's a whole bunch of different forms of EMF, dirty electricity, RF, non native EMF that you talk about in your book, 5G is a big component of your book. And because that's something that's getting rolled out all over the place right now, I want to talk about that and what it is. But I also have a question. I don't want to throw too much of a curveball at you, but before we delve into 5G. Well, this is actually related to 5G. Do you know why? About two weeks ago, although I live out in the middle of the forest where there's none of these 5G panels that I'm aware of of my phone Suddenly switched to 5G unless I have the LTE disabled on it. Do you know why that would have occurred?

Well, I have a question for you first. Who's your carrier?

AT&T.

AT&T. I was going to say, I don't know if you remember back when we were all on 3G. Oh, I know what I remember. Wanted to say now with that NTP study, that NTP study that proved that cell phones, the radiation exposure is a Class 1 carcinogenic. That study was done with 2 and 3G, not 4G or even 5G. So anyway, getting back to the reason why, if you remember back to when we had 3G AT&T did the same dirty trick.

Joe, by the way, I remember back to when my dad had the giant brick size cell phone.

Okay, okay, that's good. But do you remember that there was, it was a, there were a lot of articles about it because they were essentially scamming people, deluding them into thinking they were getting 4G and they weren't. So they, you know, it's not technically illegal, it's just fraudulent. But they're putting this 5G moniker on there, and it's not 5G in any way, shape or form. That phone probably doesn't even have the capacity, it doesn't have the chip to receive 5G signals.

So technically, even though it says 5G when I'm out in the middle of the forest, where I'm at, I don't have to disable lte, it's technically, it's not true that, that it's truly producing a 5G signal.

Yeah. And here's the thing to do that's good enough. Just go to go. If your phone is a smartphone, as it probably is, you just go to a browser, you type in fast.com f a s t.com and then you see what the bandwidth speed is. If it's 4G, it's probably not going to be more than 10 megs per second. I mean, you might go a little bit more, but not much more. If it's 5G, you're 5, 6, 7, 8, hundred megs a second, it's 100 times faster. 100 times?

Yeah.

So, you know, I can almost guarantee that's what it was. It's another dirty AT&T trick.

Well, regardless, my, my wife and I, whenever we travel outside of our house, we switch the LTE off just so we're not picking up 5G signals anymore. But we, we digress. What, what is 5G exactly? And why would, why would people even want 5G in the first place? What's so great about 5G?

Well, as I alluded to, it's the speed. There's no question. It's 100 times faster. Yeah, that's, that's, that is the primary benefit. There's a lot of details I go to in a book, but there's so much more to go into than this. I mean, just know that it's faster, it's going to be pervasive. And here's the big reason why it's going to be pervasive. Well, you know, first of all, most people don't need it. I mean, how many times have you on your phone said, God, I wish my phone was faster? I mean, that was totally true in 3G. And 4G was a big benefit, but it's not true. 4G is fast for most. Fast enough for most of us. Us. Unless you're downloading video or something.

I like to smoke weed at night and surf through my Instagram feed. And I always wish that that's how I spend my evenings, as you know, I always wish it was faster when.

I'm doing That, yeah, right, okay. But for commercial use it may be the benefit for self driving cars and there might be some other commercial applications, but for personal use probably not. But here's what to know about 5G and this is not widely known. In all I'm a big fan of Elon Musk and you know, I've had a Tesla now for probably close to eight years and but he's got another company called SpaceX and SpaceX has got this project called Starlink which is essentially going to shower the entire planet with 5G. Just last month they've got submitted proposal for another 30,000 satellites. They already had permission for 12. That brings it to 42,000 satellites. These are low earth orbit flying satellites about 200 miles up. Most satellites are about 20,000 miles up or 2,000. 2,000. 20,000, but it's a lot higher, at least 10 to 100 times higher. So they're going to saturate the entire planet with 5G Internet. You cannot escape it no matter where you live. It's going to be the entire globe.

How about the safety of it? Talk to me about the safety and I believe you call it the millimeter wave wave that's being used for 5G. Why would that be an issue? And have any safety studies been done on it?

Well, that's a great question. There have been been. No, zero, nada. Not one safety study has ever been done on 5G.

How about, how about any, any studies on millimeter waves and their safety?

None that I'm aware of. Okay, may be the case, but I believe that's, that's the same status because that it is a 5G is complex because it's a variety. It's not just one frequency.

It's.

See the frequency of 4G is typically around 2-5 GHz. And 5G is going to be significantly higher. Probably 20, 30 GHz initially, maybe up even up to 80 GHz, which makes it a problem for a lot of ways because we don't really have inexpensive meters to measure that like, you know, which we can talk about. But you know, typically these inexpensive meters are only under $200 and they're pretty good and you can find out where your exposures are. But these meters don't exist for 5G yet. I mean they're going to come, but they're not out. They're not out.

Well, so is what you're saying that there's no studies that show that 5G is going to be harmful?

I guess you could spin it that way. But by implication or your inference, you can use the studies that have already been done on 2, 3 and 4G that we know it's harmful. It's just only going to be worse. It's not going to be better.

Is the phone still, still accessing any of these two, three or four when it's in 5G mode?

It depends. It's going to be a transition. It's going to be years before you get complete 5G rollout. And then because of the specific mechanics of 5G distribution, it doesn't go very long. So you need a lot of transmitters. You need like a, essentially a mini cell phone tower like every five or six houses on your block. And so, so that's part of the reason why The FCC committed $6 billion for infrastructure in the rural areas. Kind of reminds me of the electrification process in the 1950s to get electricity, but this one's more dangerous. So the, you know, it's just, it's just going to be, it's going to be a long time before it's out there. And then because of the way that's distributed, if 5G is not available, it's going to automatically go back to four.

But I mean, like, I don't know, for me rolling out 5G without actually conducting safety studies on it seems irresponsible. If that is indeed the case, that no safety studies have ever been conducted on it. Do you, do you think there's ever been any kind of internal testing in the telecommunications industry on it or anything like that?

No, I don't know. I would guess not. They would, you know, I don't know that they would expose themselves to that type of live potential future liability. But, but the issue is there's no question it's going to cause problems.

I hear a lot about the effect of these small millimeter waves on things like animals or plants. Like the biological impact of putting all these towers everywhere. Has anybody ever looked into that?

Oh yeah, that's been well documented. In fact, one of my favorite researchers, Martin Paul, wrote a nice paper on that a few years ago. How it works on a similar mechanism, at least on his theory of these voltage gated calcium channels. But it, in these channels or channels, similar channels like them are available, are essentially in most all biological life, certainly in animals, other animals and plants and insects, trees. So you know, when you start flooding the planet with these frequencies, there's going to be consequences, biological consequences. Which, and actually one of the subtitles for the book, maybe the original title was going to be the Existential threat to humanity. So. And it does this in a way, not because you have this pervasive exposure. And one of the consequences biologically is you can get arrhythmias. You can get like the four A's, the arrhythmias, autism or three A's and Alzheimer's. So you've got autism on the, on the low end of spectrum, you know, with maybe 50% of the population having this type of developmental delay and impaired neurology. And then you've got 50% of the elderly population coming down with Alzheimer's. That essentially. And then you've got infertility, which is increasing massively. Largely believed related to the exposure to these frequencies. That is a prescription for biological disaster. How can a society continue to be sustained in those circumstances? It can't extinguish.

Yeah. And to be fair, that's all correlation, not causation. But the big picture would be that it's basically right now a giant health experiment.

Yes, yes. That we've had no control. We're just voluntary guinea pigs in this experiment.

If we weren't going to use 5G and we wanted to get this kind of speed distributed throughout cities, what would be the type of alternative we weren't going to roll out? 5g.

Essentially the alternative that we had when. Or similar alternative that when we all start first using the Internet and last century. How many people accessed the Internet wirelessly before the year 2000? Virtually no one. It was always through a wire. Typically in the early 1990s, it was through your phone wire.

Yeah, it went a little bit something like this. It's like dumb and dumber. The most annoying sound in the world.

Yeah. But then it progressed, you know, faster and faster. But really most of the wireless connections was. Was. Didn't really start until the mid 2000s when you. When shortly after the iPhone came out. First came out, 2007. So there was not. I mean, we didn't have smartphones. We had some, but they were pretty primitive, 2005 or so. So, you know, people were not accessing their. The Internet on the phone. That's for sure. And not as many people had wireless routers back then. It was a wired cable.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So you're saying like A, like a 5, like instead of 5G.

Instead of 5G, use a fiber optic cable. Here's the thing, it's faster, it's safer and it's cheaper.

But most cities right now, they don't have wired infrastructure for that, do they?

They could Easily get it. Listen, 5G transmission does not come free. They have. There's an enormous infrastructure, hardware investment that they have to put in to put these, these transmitters up. So they could easily replace that investment with an investment in fiber optic cable.

I won't lie that the convenience factor is incredibly attractive. Like, for me, it is a little bit of a pain in the ass. And I didn't say it on this podcast, but I've said on many other podcasts, my Entire home is Cat 7 shielded Ethernet cable, right? So anytime you want to connect to the Internet in any room of the house, you need to make sure you have some kind of an Ethernet adapter for whatever laptop you happen to have. And then you plug that into any of the 12 different cables I have, you know, sticking out of different outlets around the house if you want to plug in. And yeah, it's slightly inconvenient until you get used to it, but at the same time, I mean, my home is not getting bombarded with all these signals that I don't know the health effects of for, for my kids. Well, with WI fi, we do know. With WI fi, we do know. I think that there's, there's a multitude of studies showing the effects of WI FI on, on fertility, on the brains of children, et cetera. And I've, I've talked about that many times in other podcasts, but with 5G, you just don't know, so why not play it safe, right? I realized we could probably spend this entire show just scaremongering because, I mean, there's. And I think that a lot of other shows have done that. But one part of your book that I had not yet seen before was the pretty interesting biochemical strategies that you can use, like, beyond just like, you know, some of the stuff I talked with Brian Hoyer about, you know, like, you know, painting your house with some shielded painting on the walls, or installing dirty electricity filters, or even using Faraday implements in some areas of the house. Like, there's a lot that you can do if you have a building biologist walk through your home to protect everything, but as far as your own body goes, you're really keen on the biochemistry. And I know you've really been getting, getting into some of the ways that we can not only enhance longevity with certain pathways, such as the NAD pathway or the NRF2 pathway, but also the link between these pathways and exposure to non native emf. So let's get into that. I would like to start with nad. We've talked about that a lot before. People are doing NAD IVs or subcutaneous injections. Many people are supplementing with oral NMN or NR or even NAD in some cases, and even using intranasal sprays like. It's kind of a darling of the supplement industry right now. And I'm curious why you address NAD pathways in a book on emf.

Well, it's a great question, but it's very similar to the reason you should address them if you had exposure to iodine radiation. And the EMFs that we're talking about, of course, non ionizing radiation. I'm not. We don't have time to go into details, but essentially the mechanism action in X rays and exposure from your phone or your WI FI router is almost identical. Essentially results in excess oxidative stress, which catalyzes damage and breakage of DNA bonds. And when you have a DNA break. Thank you, thank God. Our biology has developed a system to repair that. And part of that repair process involves an enzyme that previously was called PARP and in most publications is still referred to as that. PARP is short for poly ADP ribose polymerase, but now they've renamed it to art. ADP ribose transferase, I think. So if it's a newer literature, they'll use that term. But anyway, this PARP enzyme uses about 150 NAD molecules. Every time you have a break just decimates it. And most researchers believe and suspect that that is the primary user in your body of nad. It has other purposes, of course, but that's one of the biggest ones. And the more exposure you have, the more breaks you get, the more you use nad. And we know, especially from your previous, your, My previous podcast with David Sinclair, who is really one of the primary innovators in this area, to help us understand how NAD is an intracellular signal from the mitochondria to the, to the nucleus and really essential for improving longevity. When you start depleting that, you have got major problems. And I've got to tell you that I've got a good friend we'll talk about later, actually. James Clement, he's out of Gainesville, probably one of, he's probably one of the top NAD researchers in, in the US and he, he and I are actually collaborating, doing some studies, but he's got his own mass spec and he's, he actually measures these and he's published on this before and he's done a study, I think it was at the beginning of this year or early last year that showed how rapid the NAD levels declined independent of emf. I mean, if you take Someone healthy, they've got their NAD level is going to go down literally 80 to 100 fold. It just doesn't decrease slowly over time and it falls off a cliff. The drop, it's very dramatic. So the last thing you want to do is deplete your NAD levels, especially if you're elderly. If you're younger, you can get away with it. It's still gonna hurt you, but it's not gonna hurt you as much.

Okay, so basically what you're saying is that nonionizing radiation can produce DNA damage that results in increased need for activity of these PRAP enzymes, which are big consumers of nad. And so essentially the more you're exposed to something like 5G, your argument is that the higher your needs for NAD would be. Okay, so in terms of actually, and this is obviously something that's kind of, I guess, confusing to people these days and often controversial because I know there's a lot of supplement industry, There's a lot of, I guess, bias by different manufacturers of NMN from NAD to nr. But what, what is your preferred method to keep NAD levels elevated?

Well, how about the free ones first? Okay, so limit your exposure to EMFs. I go in great details on that. In fact, we'll talk about it later. But I have a resource. It's chapter seven of the book, as you know, is the largest chapter in the book. And it goes into how you can limit your exposure and remediate your household. So the first thing is, is, you know, shield and limit your exposure. That's number one. Because if you're not damaging your DNA, you're not going to use it up. So that's the first one.

Do you do still like a guy like Brian Hoyer to come out to the house?

Brian Hoyer is my favorite. I just love that man. And if you talked about shielding paint, he just emailed me yesterday. I think he's got seeking to develop a paint for like 200 a gallon. Because right now they're about $2,000 a gallon.

Yeah, well, Brian Hoyer did an analysis of my home two years ago. And I didn't tell you this yet, but after, after reading your book, I talked to Brian because I've since built a guest house and I've also got a bunch of different new biohacking tools like a float tank and a hyperbaric chamber and a vasper and all these different things that use electricity around the house. And I'm going to have him come back out actually in a few months to do a reanalysis. And that's just basically after reading your book I also want to know about any potential for new cell phone thousand that have been installed near my home etc. So and, and for those of you listening in again if you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com EMF I'll link to my my previous podcast with Brian where we delve into building biology.

He's the best. I mean he has, he actually has a company. I mean you picked in my mind he's the best in the U.S. yeah, I couldn't recommend anyone more. He's got a company called shieldedhealing.com where actually others can hire him or his team as a consultant.

I'm glad I talked to him before release this podcast because now if you release the podcast he's going to be booked up for the year. So unfortunately I got a hold of him in time. Okay, so you've got reducing your EMF exposure of course, but what else would you do in terms of non supplementation?

The things that you and I have been teaching people for years. And by the way Ben, I forgot to congratulate you. You have reached the top 10 most visited natural health sites in the world and you deserve it, man. You're just incredible content. You're producing.

I'll have to off to produce some more stuff about vaccinations and cancer. So I get taken off that.

We don't want to do that. You do not want to do that. But anyway, what we've both been teaching people is obviously eating a good diet because I don't have time to go deep in the weeds on that. But the oxidative stress can happen when you're eating a lot of carbs and processed foods. So but that's key. But the exercise and not so much what you're eating, but when you're eating time restricted eating. You and I are both big fans of sometimes some people call it intermittent fasting. But both of these strategies activate the rate limiting enzyme for the the recycling of the salvage pathway of NAD which is NAMPT. And essentially they increase that by 30%. So you have got to be out of your mind to be taking, taking a supplement of NAD when you're not addressing these basic variables. You need to be exercising and doing time restricted eating and eating healthy. So those are the, that's the first three things and those are free. There is no charge for it.

Okay. Okay. Now of course one could even say that when you're traveling and when you're out of your element and exposed to even more WI fi signals Then using a ketotic approach or high fat approach might even be more beneficial in those situations because when you're combining sugar with the exposure of 5G, you're just increasing oxidative potential.

And especially when you're traveling, when you're traveling fasted or even taking exogenous ketones. Richard Veech, who I think you've interviewed before, has he really. One of the godfathers in ketone research. And his team has written some. I think Bill Curtis is one of his other writers who's published some stuff that, that shows how ketones are really effective HDAC inhibitors. And they radically. And I think they increase NADPH or nad. Yeah, nadp. Wait, nadph. Nadph. Oh, nadph. I'm sorry.

Yeah.

So the NADPH is increased. So that radically decreases the damage from ionizing radiation and should increase the damage from the non ionization too. So that's a good strategy.

Yeah. And that is why, by the way, since learning this, I believe, from you and then discussing hydrogen with Tyler Leberon, your scientific editor, you know, two things that I always have with me on long haul flights is a shot of ketone esters both before and then after. Yeah, that's. I've got the what's in my fridge right now. The ketone aid and the HVMN are the two brands that I have right now. And then the other thing that I do is I have these hydrogen tablets in my bag when I get a. On the plane, I put two of those for every, every bottle of water that I consume. And from what I understand, this actually can affect NAD as well in kind of a roundabout way. Is that true?

I don't know if the. What's going to work really well is it's going to activate the NRF2 pathway, which is in my mind the best antioxidant system in the world because it's.

But what I'm saying is that is the. That hydrogen would inhibit NADPH oxidase. Right. Which would consume nadph. So technically it's a roundabout way of increasing your NAD levels without taking nad.

I forgot that Tyler pointed out to me a while ago that it is a pretty good inhibitor of NOx NADPH oxidase. So you will increase NADPH, which is going to actually help. And those are the two most powerful strategies I know of that you're doing. So congratulations on that. The ketone esters and the molecular hydrogen. Yeah, you just don't want to overdo it on the hydrogen. You like do it like every hour or so because it Works best when it's cycled or pulsed. So once I would probably do it twice a day. I wouldn't really do it much more than twice a day.

Well, when I'm at home, that's what I do. When I'm at home, it's morning and evening. When I'm on the airplane. I actually probably have five days doses on the airplane.

That might be a little bit too much. Yeah. Because if you're taking it continuously, like you can inhale much higher volumes and concentrations with respect to milligrams of it by just taking it pure hydrogen gas. And it won't work as well. I mean, the studies are really clear. You can discuss with Tyler. It's just not as effective.

I guess my, my logic was, was that if you're under constant EMF stress and damaging your DNA, such as on an airplane, you deplete your NAD extremely extreme rapidly, which would mean that figuring out ways to replace it would be pretty crucial. And maybe what I should be doing, and this is not something I've really done a ton of yet, would be to. Well, I take that back. I do wear a transdermal NAD patch on long haul flights for transdermal delivery of nad. So maybe I could back off on the hydrogen and still be getting a decent amount of. Amount of NAD into my system.

Yeah, I would still do the hydrogen. I just want to do it as frequently.

Yeah, yeah.

And those patches are nice. They think they cost like $17. And I think you're getting like about 250 milligrams. But they're pretty elegant. They work.

Oh, the one, the one I have is 800 milligrams delivered over 12 hours.

Okay. That's a little higher dose. It depends on how much you put in the patch, I guess.

Yeah, it does. Yeah. They come with a little liquid. You put it on the patch, then you put the patch in your skin. They operate on the principle of electrophoresis basis.

I used to use those, but I just found them inconvenient. So I just, I just go with another strategy.

Yeah, they are inconvenient, but for a flight. For a flight, I'll put them on.

That's a good, that's a good one. That's, it's, that is solid, Absolutely solid. And it's not terribly expensive. It's $17, I think is the, the total cost for a patch.

Now what about supplementation? What would be the best form of supplementation to get NAD levels up, in your opinion?

It's controversial for sure, but you know they probably all work, but the question is, you know, what happens to them when you swallow them orally? So it's pretty clear, even though it's not really disclosed too well for most of these companies, that when you swallow them, your liver is going to methylate them. And once it's methylated, it doesn't work very well. It kind of stays in the liver and it's not going to be active, so. And then it becomes a problem of detoxifying it. So.

Right.

I'm a little bit adverse to doing that. And, and you know, you really have to bypass the oral route so you can do that. Like the patch which does it. It's not an issue. And you're. And you're getting the real molecule with nad. And actually, James Clement, I mentioned earlier, he just interestingly, by the way, published his. His new book December 31, which is called the Switch. Unbelievable. This is. It's about activating MTOR on and off. You'd love it. I'll get to send you a copy.

I'd love to read it.

Yeah, he. He is, I mean, I mean, the. George Church wrote the forwarded book. He's good buddies. And George Church is probably the leading. He's a professor of genetics at Harvard and really good guy. James is the one who told me about that. That patch initially. But the, the other ways to increase the nad, the one I use that I like is I found a source of NAD powder. So I like, I bought like 3 ounces of it or so and I measure it out and I actually use. Put. Put it in suppositories and it has to be kept cold because NAD is a really unstable molecule. We had looked into making liposomal preparations with it, but it's so perishable and stable. It's just. It just wouldn't work. So that's why precursors are more useful like NR and nmn. But one strategy I think we're working. I'm really looking forward to it. It's. Unfortunately, James's mass spec took three months longer to get up and running than it was supposed to, so we should have had the studies done by now. But Chris, Chris Shade, who you also know is making liposomal nnm. It exists. I know maybe by the time this podcast is out, it'll be up for sale. It's not for sale now, but we're going to be testing that to see how much it increases NAD levels. And I possibly could have the results back before this podcast gets launched.

Yeah, that would be cool. I do like most of Quicksilver Scientific's liposomal formulations. I travel with their melatonin, for example, and have found that to be the most, the most efficacious way to use melatonin. It's the only one I actually feel when I use it, when I travel. And all their stuff is liposomal. So it bypasses digestion. Thus, as you alluded to, negating a lot of the issues with poor bioavailability of orally administrated nad. And so yeah, NMN that you dissolve under your tongue or take liposomaly or even NAD for that matter, whether via patch or IV or sublingual is going to be better, I think, than like an, like an oral NR for example. So yeah, I do, I do agree with you in terms of NAD delivery.

Yeah. Well, just let me just add a little point to that. And Chris is not, not all liposomes are created equal. Chris's are especially effective because they're so small. He has, they're not really liposomes. He calls them nanoliposomes. They're like 30, 40 nanometers, which is the same size of exosomes. So we know from the research that exosomes get put, it gets transported intracellular lickety split. So it's, the transport system of this cell is just magnificent because they're the right size.

Yeah. And you know, one other thing we didn't discuss was the enzyme that actually converts NADH back to nad plus the NADPH dehydrogenase. And that one I know can actually be affected, I believe in terms of terms of increasing its activity with, with sauna and with light therapy.

I'm not sure. I know apigenic can do that too. Or maybe apogenic CD38, I thought. Yeah, yeah. So those are magnificent therapies. I love, I am just passionate about sauna therapy. Near far mid infrared, you know, they're all great therapies. And you and I both do it pretty much every day we're home.

That or light panels.

Absolutely, yeah, yeah, both of them. And then the heat shock proteins you get from those which, you know, people hear about them, but they're so crucial for they refold your protein. And I didn't know until early this year that 30 of the proteins that your body makes right off the bat, they're misfolded. So you need heat shock proteins to put them back together the right way. And if they are, if it's the damage is too bad, then they actually accelerate the degradation process and through the UPS system and they, they essentially lickety split get them out of your cells and before they cause any more damage.

Yeah. And another pathway I wanted to jump into because there's kind of three different pathways you talk about in the book. The NAD pathway, the NRF2 pathway, and then also minerals such as magnesium. But when it comes to the NRF2 pathway, I mean, we know that activates a bunch of genes that have very powerful antioxidant effects that could protect against EMF damage. And when it comes to this pathway, most often recommended to increase NRF2 pathways, perhaps made most popular by Dr. Rhonda Patrick would be the use of things like sulforaphane and sulfur rich compounds like garlic and onion and chives and leeks. And it's also something that's often recommended. Broccoli, cauliflower, cruciferous vegetables. There's a whole bunch of different NERF to boosting chemicals in different foods. But now that we've got folks like, and I know you've interviewed him recently, you know, Paul Saladino and people saying that these, these plant hormetic compounds are, are gonna be damaging to our guts. Are you a fan of using those to activate the NRF2 pathways or do you have other recommendations for activating NRF2?

Well, the best one is, but is one we already discussed is molecular hydrant. I don't think there's any finer NRF2 activator. But you're right, the concept you refer to as xenohomesis. And I'm a bit skeptical. Paul is a really, he's a magnificent researcher and he really put some doubts in my mind about the long term strategy of using that. And actually interviewed Jed Fahey who was Rhonda's primary consultant for her, her passion of sulforaphane. And he's, he's been doing glucoraphanin research for a long time. He's out of Johns Hopkins. And he told me about this plant called moringa, which is like a superfood, which actually the, the glucosinolates in moringan is called moringa. And, and that moringan, and it's actually maybe even more potent than sulforaphan. So I live in South Florida or Florida, so I can grow it here and I you. But I don't take a lot of it. I just take a little bit. It's certainly easier to grow than broccoli.

Yeah, it's like, it's like a weed. And actually I, I looked into moraine moringa a while back. So I was thinking, I know you have some on your Property. And it grows like a weed in the Philippines. My, one of my assistants who works in the Philippines, the hurricane, you know, she got back to me with the damage from the hurricane and one of the things it did was it blew over their Moringa trees. They no longer have Moringa on their property. But I found out that nettle sting. Nettle has many, many of the same biochemical properties as Moringa and that grows like weeds around my home. So I kind of have my own natural in the northwest version of Moringa as far as a NRF2 activator that I can use just right outside my own house. I can make pesto out of it and tea out of it. And so nettle is another fantastic alternative for people who don't have access to Moringa or live in colder climates.

Yeah, that's assuming there's no downstream side effects that are adverse long term. So we don't know. I mean it really is unknown. So I'm a little skeptical.

Yeah, well, for now I still do include plants in my diet, although it's limited. And I'm largely eating kind of a nose to tail carnivore with some little plants and berries and bone broths and things like that. Worked in. Now you also, you mentioned magnesium as one other way to address biochemical pathways that might be damaged by emf. Why magnesium?

Well, magnesium is a natural calcium channel blocker. And that's one of the speculations, a mechanism as to how EMFs cause their damage. It may not be through this mechanism, but there's some pretty strong compelling evidence to suggest that there's. That that's at least one of the ways. So. And besides, 85% of population is deficient in magnesium. So the downside is like almost non existent. So I like magnesium. I think the best way to get it, especially if you're taking a bunch, you know, every molecular hydrogen tablets you're taking has 80 milligrams of ionized magnesium. So that's essentially elemental, which is a lot because the RDA is like 400 milligrams. So if you took like three a day, you're more than halfway there. And I take typically three at once in a half liter of water.

And essentially that's to control basically the influx of calcium that occurs in response to an EMF signal, whether it's 5G or any other form of nitrogen. Non native EMF, that calcium influx and the damage that it causes, particularly via the formation of these peroxynitrate free radicals, can in some ways be alleviated via the Use of magnesium supplementation.

Yeah. So peroxy nitrite really isn't a free radical, but it causes free radicals. And in fact, the hydroxyl free radical is what causes most of the damage from ionizing radiation to DNA. But we. What. What causes it from emf, we believe is. Is carbonate free radical, which is caused by peroxy nitrite. So interestingly, peroxide nitrate is a free or a reactive nitrogen species or an rns. It's not an ros, it's an rns. And one of the other things that you can use for RNS is a new passion of mine. It's a dipeptide, two simple amino acid that's present pretty much in meat. And it's called carnosine, which is unbelievable, this thing. And carnosine increases telomere length and it scavenges free nitro or reactive nitrogen species. So it should mitigate against some of the harm from EMFs. But it also does something that is particularly intriguing is that it scab. It serves as a sacrificial sink for carbonyl species, feces. And this is the intermediate that you want that is sort of the precursor to advanced glycation end products and ales, or advanced lipoxation. Or lipoxation and products which decimate cellular health. So carnosine is a big player. And that's actually the topic of my new paper that I'm writing. It's going to be probably 500 references in 30 to 50 pages, so.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, it's. I'll send you a copy when I'm done with it. Probably it's going to take me another three or four months though, but finishing up the calcium. Other calciums you can use, aside from molecular hydrogen, would be threonate, malate and citrate.

You meant to say magnesium, not calcium. Right, Forms of magnesium.

I'm sorry, yes, I'm sorry about that. Okay, thanks for the correction. Yeah, magnesium, because calcium is available as that and we don't want to take a lot of extra calcium. Although calcium citrans is not unreasonable to chelate out some oxalates. But you heard of the magnesium supplement Calm? Yeah, yeah. So many people have. It's one of the most popular ones. And it's basically. That's magnesium citrate. Well, we're making a Calm knockoff. It's called Canacomb, that has magnesium citrate, threonate malate and cbd.

Oh, wow. Wow, that sounds like a good blend. Yeah. The one I use right now is mag srt, which is Basically dimagnesium malate in the form of malic acid. And that's got, I believe it is, also includes a little bit of the five methyl tetrahydrophoic acid and vitamin B12 in that one as well. But you've got three different forms that you present in your book. The three and eight, the male phthalate and the citzrate as options. So as long as it's one of those. As long as one of those three people are going to be good.

Yeah. And you reminded me, you know, thank you for first of all for connecting me to Matt Cook. And when we were dialoguing over the summer we kind of both figured out, I mean he did figure it out, but I catalyzed the thought process as to using methyl donors when you're taking nad, especially large doses because it seems to, seems to be contributing to some of the side effects of that. So. So he discussed it on his last podcast with you. But that's an important contribution. Doctor.

Yeah, if you can buy S. Adenylmethionine. Same. And trimethylglycine. Tmg.

Yeah, TMG or betaine.

Yeah, Just dose those orally prior to an NAD iv. And that feeling of nausea or burning sensation or tingling seems to dramatically decrease with that strategy because essentially all you're doing with the NAD is you're really, really increasing your methylation need. And that seems to knock a little bit of the discomfort off. So Jed, it is a cool strategy. What about other like technologies like you know, we talk about NAD and the NRF2 pathway and hydrogen rich water and magnesium, but what about technologies? You know, people say we'll use pulsed electromagnetic field frequencies or go outside barefoot or use earthing or grounding technologies. You know, there's all these different things that supposedly will battle some of the effects of emf. Are there any that you like when it comes to those type of approaches?

Yeah, there's a few. First of all, let me tell you a few comments. Is that pemf, you would think, well, it's got EMF in it, so it shouldn't be good. Well, that's not true. It can be very beneficial and helpful. It's a different frequency. Typically most biological PEMF units, the frequencies are below a few hundred hertz. So they're more closely related to what your body is used to being exposed to. So the, so that's an important component. And then the other one is that people, there's a lot of harmonizers out there, these little pendants and stickers that you can patch your phone. And they're purported to provide safety and security. So what they do is they give people falsehood sense of security because there's no way shape or form these devices or, or shug. Shugite Shungite.

I think it's minerals.

Yeah, they don't work. I mean they may provide, they may impact in biologically some way, but they're not shielding you from the energy in those frequencies. So you're most likely you're causing biological damage. Now they may mitigate some of the autonomic nervous system responses, but that's not where they cause the damage. So I would not rely on those. You really have to first measure your exposures and then mitigate.

Yeah, yeah. The only thing that I, that I can comment on when it comes to some of these frequency generators like the Blue Shield or the Somavedic. I know that you know my father, Gary Greenfield Joe. And he has a harmonizer that he sells on his site. I agree that there's not a lot of data when you look at the effects of those on EMF mitigation, but anecdotally I personally and have several clients who have reported this as well, sleep much better when those devices are in the bedroom. And I also had one client who did pre and post inflammatory marker testing and with no changes in workout, diet, supplementation, anything like that, all he did was have these harmonizers running in a moderate EMF environment in his house for a couple of weeks. And you know, CRP dropped, homocysteine dropped and his LP PLA dropped. And so something seems to be going on with these harmonizers. Although I agree there's, there's not any good studies that show them to be effective at this point.

Yeah. So. And the danger, as I said, is that they'll give people a false sense of assurance or reassurance and they'll, they'll continue to use their cell phone like, like they're, they're protected. Did. So I have no problems using it as long as you're addressing it like you don't have it. You know, it's just a backup. It's not your primary.

Okay, now go ahead.

And the reason we're doing this, Ben, because, you know, I don't want to be Chicken Little and saying the world has fallen down. But listen, we all know we talked about the 5G and SpaceX implementation of Starlink. I mean, you cannot escape these exposures. It's pervasive. So the reason we're doing these, these and recommending these is Primarily the shielding, creating a safe environment in your home. So it's essentially a sanctuary is that I believe these strategies will essentially produce hormetic benefits because you are going to be exposed to this no way around it. You cannot escape exposure. So that if you can get yourself healthy, limit your exposure, you know, be, repair and regenerate and then go out into the environment. I believe, believe it's possible and that no one's done a study on this, but I theoretically believe that it's possible that the exposure to these frequencies might actually make you healthier. Very similar to exercise and very similar to other EMFs that everyone's familiar with, which is sunlight. Sunlight is another emf and UVB and uva. When you get exposed to it, they caused a sun tan, but you get too much and it's a sun burn. So it's a similar process of that. And, and the frequency, there's not a lot of difference. I mean especially when you get into 5G. 5G is a lot closer to visible light than 4G. So it's actually the next spectrum over. It's not that big of a difference in frequency. So it's not a big jump to believe that there could be a hormetic benefit here.

Okay. And a couple other just kind of like quick lightning round style questions. But as far as measuring devices, I know you use a ton of different measuring devices. Let's say someone can't afford or doesn't want to wait for a building biologist to come to their house. Is there any single meter that you think is best if they just wanted to kind of go around their living environment and assess for EMFs?

Well, there's like three different meters. You need one for dirty electricity. And then the Stetzer filter, I like for that. Then magnetic fields. And even though the tri field meter measures three magnetic, electric and radio frequency signals, it's really only good for magnetic field. But then the one for radio frequency fields that I like a lot, it's the size of a pack of cigarettes. And it's audio and gives you audio feedback too. And aside from visual is the AcousticOM 2. And it was recommended me by Magda Havas who actually reviewed this book for scientific accuracy. And you know, so she. It's pretty impressive. In fact, I should send you some slide that she showed during her most recent presentation that I was at. And it shows the distribution of WI fi centers like in 2002 and then in 2018. And then the whole planet lights up like crazy. It's like a Christmas tree.

Okay, got it. And then what about grounding or earthing?

I think it works if it's true, authentic grounding. You know, Clint over is the person who popularized that, and you've had him on your podcast before. And I've been in both of Clint's movies and was a firm believer until I started studying this stuff and guys like Sam Milham, who's an md, mph, epidemiologist, who wr the book Dirty Electricity, and Dave Stetzer, and then they started helping me understand that the way that electricity is distributed in the United States essentially creates dirty electricity or high voltage transits that get inducted into the ground. This is only in North America. It's not in Asia, Europe, South America, Australia, so you have to worry about it there. So grounding over the stream appears to be good, but I'm concerned and my concern may be unwarranted, but I'd rather be cautious and conservative. And Brian Hoyer, who you know and respect, shares similar concern. And when he comes to your house, he's going to show you, but you need a. It's a little bit challenging to show you, but he can, he can demonstrate. I think he's created some videos for you too, so to help you understand that, so. But I do ground every day. I walk on the ocean. I just before this podcast, I was right in the ocean for an hour walking in the water, which is the ultimate grounding. There's Ed Clinton would. Would clearly acknowledge that.

But even your walks on the beach, not to derail you, you change those during your writing of this book, did you not?

Oh, you really did read the book, Ben. You did, of course. Yeah, I know. I took my meter out there and because I can. The beautiful thing about the beach on Florida, where I live, is it's just flat. There's no seashells. I could walk for 20 miles in either direction and no problems, no. No traffic, nothing. So the one direction I was walking and I took my meter out there, it was like three times higher than the other direction. So now I only walk in the low direction. But it probably doesn't matter because I believe that if you're properly grounded, as I am, and optimally grounded with my feet literally six inches to a foot into the water, which makes it a bit more of a challenge. I do actually do the beach walking with my Katsu cycling too. So it's really. Cohen.

Yeah. Which. Which we talked about, actually. I think when you interact with. Interviewed me recently on your podcast, that one might have come out by the time this podcast you guys are listening to. Right now gets released, but we talk all about how to use blood flow restriction, band training for walks. So go, go listen to my podcast on Joe's show. Your show is called take control of your health, right?

No, that's my MO. That's my motto that we trademarked like 20 years ago that actually some insurance companies try to rip us off. What's your podcast? That's our motto. That's. Oh, actually the podcast name is take control of your health. I. I take that back. I'm sorry, I forgot that we uploaded it to like, I itunes and other platforms, but most, most of it's just on our site. I mean, basically it's the same thing. It's nothing, nothing different. So it's, you know, on my website.

Okay, got it. So I'll link to that, but you.

Won'T find it in YouTube unless you put. Because I'm not on YouTube anymore.

Well, for me to access any of your articles now for. I just want to search for them, Joe. And I'm like, I want. I don't remember. What did, what did Joe say about. Let's say, yeah, you will not find us on Google.

We don't exist.

But if I search for like Mercola blood restriction training and I use your name, it'll show up.

It should. Yes. But if you just put, if you put in a keyword without my name, it will not show up.

Yeah, it's pretty much the only things that show up now are what, like Healthline and Medscape and just a few of the random. And it's very. Anyone who frequently has used Google in the past for searching for health terms.

And WebMD and do you know what the common denominator with all those companies are? They are owned by ad agencies. Ad agencies owns every one of them. And they, they have Google Ads and they sell ads for drugs. They. And so they'll have an article about a condition and they'll sell a drug ad right on the same page, which is 100% illegal.

Wow. Wow. Well, we have only scratched the surface of what is in this book. And we've been going. We're gonna be going up on an hour and a half soon. And I know there's a lot of resources. For example, if people want a free chapter, they can go to emf.mercola.com if you want the whole book, you can go. Actually go to the show notes for this podcast because I'll put my Amazon link to the book in there and you can get that@BenGreenfieldFitness.com. and we also talked a lot. Like we talked about Ryan Holiday's books and some other titles. We talked about this meter that you can use to measure. We talked about NAD and hydrogen water and magnesium. And I'll just link to everything that I've covered on previous podcasts about any of those for those who want to take a deeper dive. But please understand if you're listening, we didn't in this podcast even get into really scratching the surface of the amount of research and practical recommendations. And also, admittedly, I wish we'd have had a full couple of hours just to go into the chapter on how much of this has been hidden in terms of it being a big health experiment and in terms of how the lobbying and the PR agencies have affected public knowledge of this in what I would consider to be a very unfair manner. And so I would recommend everybody read this book if you want to wrap your head around that. And again, it's emf. I guarantee this is one of the ones my kids will be getting paid to write a book report on as well.

That is magnificent parenting example. Thank you for that. That's great.

Well, it makes it easy for them. I tell them, hey, look, look for the ones that have all the pages folded over because that means dad's already done the hard work for you. And all the most important parts of the book are already circled and underlined. So. So. But one of my sons, I think he's maybe bitten off more than he could chew this week. He grabbed one of Stephan Guillonnet's books off of my shelf, and he's 11 years old. I see him laying in bed reading about dopamine and food reward responses. And I told him he didn't have to read that one, but that's the one he picked. So I think it's because it had a picture of some kind of tasty food on the front. Anyways, though, okay, so. BenGreenfield.com EMF Joe, thank you so much for riding this book and for coming on my show to share with people about it.

Well, thanks for the opportunity. It's always fun talking with you, Ben. Really appreciate it. Appreciate it.

Awesome. All right, folks. Well, I'm Ben Greenfield along with Dr. Joseph Mercola, signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com have an amazing week. Well, thanks for listening to today's show. You can grab all the show notes, the resources, pretty much everything that I mentioned over at BenGreenfield Fitness.com along with plenty of other goodies from me, including the highly helpful Ben Recommends page, which is a list of pretty much everything that I've ever recommended for hormones, sleep digestion, fat loss, performance, and plenty more. Please also know that all the links, all the promo codes that I mentioned during this and every episode help to make this podcast happen and to generate income that enables me to keep bringing you this content every single week. So when you listen in, be sure to use the links in the show notes. Use the promo codes that I generate because that helps to float this thing and keep it coming to you each and every week.