The Zen Of Being A Warrior Poet – How To Dominate Your Physical And Mental Performance

Welcome to the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast special interview series. As you know, about once a week I get somebody on the podcast to tell their story. And it's always a story that I've chosen because it contains stuff in it that I think is really gonna help you or even just entertain you while you're out working out or swimming, biking, running, whatever it is that you do while you listen into these podcasts. Now, in today's episode, I' got a warrior poet on the call who's going to teach us how to dominate physical and mental performance. The guy has ventured deep into the heart of jungles to drink mind altering ayahuasca beverages and he sparred around the world with top level MMA fighters. He's also the CEO of an interesting company which he'll talk about called Onnit. I hope you enjoy today's interview with Aubrey Marcus and remember to head over to BenGreenfieldFitness.com love if you dig this podcast.

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Hey folks, it's Ben Greenfield. And I've got a guy who calls himself a warrior poet on the call with me today. His website is warriorpoet Us. And this guy has an amazing story now you may have heard before of the website called onit. They sell supplements, supplements like Shroom Tech and Alpha Brain and some testosterone support formulas and even workout gear and things like that. And the guy who's on the call with me right now, Aubrey Marcus, is not only the CEO of Onnit, but he's also a guy who's been all over the place. He's ventured into the heart of a jungle and drinks this ayahuasca hallucinogenic beverage.

Any edge I can get, anything he.

Can do to keep life interesting. So we're going to dig into his head today and find out some of the cool things that he's done and some of the things that he can tell you about to enhance your life. So, Aubrey, thanks for coming on the call.

My pleasure, man, absolutely.

So Aubrey and I met at the biohack youk Life Conference, Dave Asprey's conference down in wherever that was. Where was that?

San Francisco.

That's right, San Francisco. And we Also saw each other at Paleofx. And when we're talking about biohacking and things of that nature. Aubrey, how'd you kind of get into the whole supplement health fitness industry? Was that your beginning or.

Well, my stepmother was actually one of the natural doctors for all of Pat Riley's team. So when I was growing up, it was the lakers in the 80s and then it moved on to the knicks in the 90s and of course the Heat currently in this new millennium. But I was a basketball player myself, so what she was trying on her athletes, you know, for Pat Riley's team, she was often trying on me as well. I don't know if I was the guinea pig or they were the guinea pig, but I'm so assuming that I might have been the guinea pig. But I got really familiar with what products worked well for me. And it wasn't just on the basketball court. It would be on a big test day I would have this stack of supplements, and then on a big game day I'd have this stack and on a heavy training day, I'd have this stack.

I gotta ask you, how old were you when she was guinea pigging the stuff out on you?

Yeah, she waited until I was in high school at least, so I was probably know, 14, 15. And then it picked up and got more aggressive as, you know, sophomore, junior year, senior year, of course, came along.

Now, were the supplements and the type of things that she was feeding to you, so to speak, kind of of a certain variety? Like are we talking like herbs, you know, Native American medicine or like naturopathic medicine or what kind of stuff did you use?

You know, she was pretty across the, across the spectrum, tried to keep as many natural, natural basis for these supplements as possible, but if it worked and it had minimum side effects, she was into it. And we would try it a lot of times. Definitely very herbal based. She had Chinese medicine background, so we definitely dabbled in some of the Chinese herbs. But she didn't really discriminate between Chinese Ayurvedic and just traditional natural herbal supplements and vitamins, minerals, things of that nature. So it's pretty broad spectrum. And you know, for the most part there was a lot of great successes, a few complete catastrophes, but overall it certainly helped my performance. And that kind of set the paradigm for me to realize, hey, there's things that I can take that'll tweak my performance, affect my body in certain ways. And, you know, it was always something that I was interested in, you know, despite where my professional career started. Off just being in general marketing, I always had a passion and an affinity for the natural products.

So as you were playing basketball and by the way, you played up to a pretty high level, didn't you?

I did, yeah. I was all state in Texas, which is a pretty significant stone to achieve. They take the high school sports here pretty seriously. Went to University of Richmond, played around with the team a little bit, but decided to take my life a different way after I got to college.

Now is that the point after you finished basketball, when you started doing stuff like venturing into the deep jungles and researching. Yes, there was actually mushrooms and ayahuasca and all this stuff. How'd that happen?

Well, after I've stopped playing basketball, what the hell was I going to be? From there you have a little personal identity crisis? You got to go off and meet some strange people in some strange forests and see what they have to offer? No, I was just fortunate enough to meet with some people with some traditional native practices. And really after my first experience, my first experience was out in the desert. And with my first experience under my belt, I knew that that was a real tool. Just like the supplements that I had taken to enhance my physical performance, these natural sacraments could actually unlock different facets of my understanding and my spirituality, my mind. So it became kind of a habitual practice for me to either reset or expand my mind.

Tell me about that first experience.

Well, the first experience was a particularly significant experience. I was actually out in Mexico, in the desert of Mexico. And I wasn't sure exactly what I was given, but I was given some kind of brew and there was some drums and music. And pretty shortly after I could feel my entire body melt away completely and a consciousness kind of elevate out of my body and kind of look back on it and say, oh, whoa, I am not my body, so to speak, there's something else there. And I didn't have a religious background at all. So everything that I believe in has been experiential. And that really set the tone for me understanding that, you know, while it's great to celebrate my body, there's something else there that survives beyond it. And from there that's a major leap. Once, once I got to that point, I was hooked and I wanted to find out as much as I could.

Now in that case was, was that like a, like an ayahuasca beverage that you'd consume?

I think it was somewhere between peyote and some kind of psilocybin based mushroom. Some of the traditional, you know, the Mexican mountains have traditional sacraments that involve both of them. Peyote is usually smoked, but there's a variety of cactus medicines and different things that you could do. So I didn't ask too many questions back in those early days. I just kind of went along for the ride.

Before we scare all of our healthy triathlete crossfitter, you know, maybe we do five athletes away. You know, this stuff has obviously kind of morphed for you from perhaps being, you know, almost like a hallucinogenic experience into more of kind of like targeted nutrient therapies to enhance physical performance. Where, how do you go from something, you know, kind of, kind of messing with your head almost and sending you on a trip like that to this stuff also assisting with performance. What's the variable there? And I don't mind if you get into kind of the physiology of it too. Our listeners dig this.

They're slightly different aims of course, but the idea is the same. I have the utmost confidence in earth grown nutrients and their effect on the body. We've cohabitated and evolved alongside these plants for millions of years. And whether, you know, our body adapted to them or they adapted to our body, either way there's a synergy there that's completely undeniable. I mean, they sustain us in both food and, you know, provide for us in medicine and you know, really. So the principle is similar in that we're ingesting something that we've evolved alongside a plant, a plant based either medicine or food that's going to have an effect now with the kind of antheogenic, more mind expanding supplements that people have taken in a more spiritual context. Obviously the intent is different. You know, you're trying to really, what you're trying to do is shut off that part of your mind that is the self limiting, self doubting, you know, kind of meticulous, fearing, emotional based side of your brain and open up that higher part of your brain so you can think more clearly. Now there's a pretty poignant example of, you know, I went down to the Amazon rainforest, the jungle out in Peru, took a canoe up the Madre de Dios river and met one of the Ayahuascara shamans out there and they serve.

If I can interrupt you for just a second, what's an ayahuasca shaman?

So Ayahuasca has been a sacrament down for the peoples in the rainforest for hundreds and hundreds of years. And it's basically a DMT based brew. DMT is a molecule that's endogenous to all life. But when you get a good enough amount of it, it will cause you to basically have a very mind expanding experience. So they use it in kind of a religious, spiritual context down there. The native peoples have for many, many years. So I went down there to experience that and in one of my experiences I basically saw how I needed to change the course of my business to really creating Alpha Brain and a lot of the different supplements. Now it wasn't like all the formulas came to me in specifics. That was all a bunch of research talk with different doctors and different medical staff, athletes, professional athletes, and trying a lot of trial and error to get there, but at least seeing the course of the business and seeing what kind of products we needed to take from an integrity level and what kind of ideas we needed to run with that was completely instrumental in doing that. So they can work synergistically together in that one can kind of open up your mind to directions for the business that you may not have seen before. And then it's still going to take the hard work and the kind of scientific method to put the right nutrients together to affect performance like in the Alpha Brain or the Shoomtech sport.

Interesting. So after you went through that experience in the jungle, did you just like come home and launch a supplement company? Is that what happened or.

No, the supplement company already existed, but I was focusing on products for hangovers and recovery and stuff like that. And I was marketing to a crowd that was partying their asses off and it just wasn't the right fit. I was friends with Brogan at the time and we had talked about Alpha Brain but really after that experience I saw, forget about this, you know, post party recovery bullshit. Let's just focus on, you know, Alpha Brain quality nutrients to optimize the human experience. Take healthy people, take people who are interested in achieving peak performance first of all and help them have the tools to do that even better.

Now you also focus on some, some different techniques in terms of like breathing and meditation and things of that nature too, right?

Absolutely. So the way that I've heard it described is these psychedelic experiences, these long retreats, those are like feasts. And you don't want to have a feast all the time. You got to sustain yourself with regular meals, meditation, breathing exercises. Those are the day to day meals that's going to allow you to basically find a bit of stillness, clear your head, empty the clutter of all the things that are going on and make sure that you're charting the course that you want to chart.

Gotcha. So give me an example of a breathing technique that you would use.

Well, the breathing techniques, obviously I'm a big fan of yoga, first of all. So I end up kind of just going along for the ride. Some of the yoga, the classes that I go and things that I do, that's really one of the places where I really focus on a lot of the breathing techniques. But really for me it's about fluid breaths. I end up, I find that I end up taking kind of hyphenated breaths and not really taking the full relaxing breath that I, that I take in my day to day basis. So that's when I kind of really mess with it. There's also another kind of semi hallucinogenic experience you can get called holotropic breathing. And that's more kind of somewhere between a meal and a feast to continue that analogy. It's a pretty significant experience. But basically you are taking in lots of deep, hard, fast breaths, hyperventilating, flooding your body with oxygen. And in that flood of oxygen, basically some of your brain will, some of those systems that are the systems that are very focused on the finite details of life, they'll start to go away, they'll start to shut down a little bit and you'll be able to really find some deeper clarity or emotional release. So holotropic breathing is a specific technique that I use very sparingly. It's akin to a larger experience.

How do you spell holotropic breathing? If people want to look into it.

H O, L O, T, R, O, P, I, C. Got it. And one of the things, you know, it's really one of the ways to get that psychedelic experience without having to ingest anything. And you know, I'm not a proponent of people going out willy nilly and doing illegal things. I've always tried to do everything I've done in a setting where we have a medicine keeper, a knowledge keeper who's been using that sacrament for their whole lives and really dedicated themselves to perfecting the medicine and having a tradition behind them. You know, these ayahuascaras, that the tradition is passed on grandfather to grandson, oftentimes in an unbroken chain of several hundred years. So the amount of knowledge that they're kind of passing through and the amount of intent that they can put in there really makes a significant difference. But with the breathing techniques, it's a way to basically get access to that, push those parts of your mind that are self destructive out of the way and open things up without actually having to ingest anything at all it's just oxygen manipulating oxygen in your body.

Yeah. The reason I ask is it's something I've been really geeking out on lately. There's a new book that came out called Running on Air that teaches you how to do rhythmic breathing while you're running. And I've been combining that with a technique. It's an ayurvedic technique that is used by a guy named John Douyard, who we just had on the podcast, who runs a clinic down in Boulder. And he teaches these nasal breathing techniques that you can do while you're running and while you're cycling. And I found it's made a dramatic difference in I measure my heart rate variability when I'm training and it kind of activates your parasympathetic rest and digest system while you're out fighting and flighting. And it's kind of a really cool mix.

That's awesome. I would love to actually hear some more about that because I know I can sense that it's a weakness of mine because I've caught myself breathing in really screwed up patterns. I'm like, that's not effective. So really putting some consciousness behind it, I think would improve my performance. Absolutely. Because I've seen the power of breath. It only makes sense that if you mastered it during your training, it could be helpful.

Exactly. Shallow breathing is a huge issue for me as well, and this has helped tremendously with that in terms of mindfulness. Now, you also, and I haven't mentioned this yet to folks, but you fight, you spar at an MMA gym, is that correct?

Yeah, that's right. I haven't actually made it into a full training camp. I've been a little busy with all the business, but I've trained with some of the best fighters in the world and really love the sport and love to keep up with it and be a part of it as much as possible.

Now, for somebody like you who's getting in and sparring with top level fighters, in terms of the type of nutrients that you'd put into your body before you stepped into that type of a setting. Because we do have people who are either competing at a high level or toeing the line of like an Ironman triathlon or something like that, what kind of things have you found for you work really well?

Well, you know, there's two of our supplements in particular that not only me, but all the fighters that we're with really find are extremely helpful both in training and on fight day, and that's the Alpha Brain and The shroom tech sport. So, you know, the alpha brain is going to allow you to increase your mental speed by tweaking your acetylcholine. It's going to boost your acetylcholine levels through hypersia serrata, which is an acetylcholine esterase inhibitor. Acetylcholinesterase is what breaks down acetylcholine, of course. So by inhibiting that, it's going to free up more available acetylcholine as well as alpha glycerophosphylcholine, alpha gpc, which is going to provide more raw choline for your acetylcholine. And acetylcholine is the neurotransmitter responsible for mental speed and sharpness. And what we find is just that you're able to see and react to targets a lot quicker when you're taking the alpha brain. So while a lot of people are going to take it for mental performance at work, at school, just in the day, that kind of mental focus acuity, it's also really good for athletes that are having to react quickly. Now, would it be incredible for a marathoner? I don't know. I'm not that kind of.

I actually. I personally take a Huperzine extract with cytacholine, usually in the mornings on an empty stomach. It's like a mix of Chinese adaptogens called tnt. And I can absolutely attest that it helps with endurance performance in the same way that like, like rhodiola or cortagen does, in a way.

Very cool. And speaking of rhodiola, that's the other. That's part of the other formula. Combining the rhodiola and the cordyceps mushroom in the shroom tech sport to increase oxygen utilization and provide more ATP energy, cellular energy from the. From the cordyceps mushroom. So that's really just gonna improve and tweak your stamina when you're competing. And not only the stamina in a single round. The way that MMA works, you know, with the round system, the ability to recover in between rounds is what I noticed the most. It's not so much that max exertion changes, but seems like you refuel just way faster, which is really a key element. And, you know, finally, you know, we have our hemp protein, hemp cocoa, maca stevia. Really simple, really delicious. Call it hemp force. And that's my go to recovery drink. Put that with some MCT oil. I like Dave Asprey's MCT oil, maybe some coconut oil. And make sure you're replenishing your body with some fats as well as the good protein in there as well.

There you go. Well, I know we're getting close to time and I wanted to also ask you about your training protocol. You know, when we were down at Dave Asprey's biohack youk Life conference, you know, we had Jay Schroeder there doing a lot of like extreme isometrics and electrostimulation. Do you do any of that type of stuff or do you kind of have your own type of training protocol that you follow?

You know, I was really intrigued by that stuff at the conference. Now obviously it was something a little bit out of the ordinary for what I would normally do, but I think a lot of the principles made a lot of sense. I don't have any of the electro stem devices. I don't know enough about them to use them. I'm more, you know, really. I like the kind of non traditional training methods like using the battle ropes, kettlebells, clubs, maces, things that are going to require your body to move odd objects in a powerful, explosive way.

Clubs certainly are a very awkward objects. I did the club's clinic down there at Paleofx and it was, it was tough. I was sore.

Yeah, it is, it is. And the maces, you know, the maces are just another, another way to do that. You know, you kind of feel like a barbarian while you're doing it, which is a good head trip as well. But you know, I've really enjoyed doing that stuff. I still mix in some, you know, pretty, pretty regular, you know, pull up routines and you know, grab the dumbbells and I'll do some incline with them just to, you know, I'll still mix in some more traditional things as well, but the core of my training is through the kettlebells, ropes, maces, you know, plyo boxes, things like that. And as well as just playing sports, whatever that may be.

Yeah, you know, after coming back from that Biohack conference, I actually had a phone call with Jay and have been using a lot of those experiences. Stream isometrics and also Electrostim and some of his other nervous system enhancing techniques in my triathlon training and it's actually, it's pretty sick stuff. It's very interesting the results that you can get, especially in terms of like lactic acid buffering with some of that stuff. So it's interesting.

Very cool. He seemed like he's, you know, it was a funny experience. He says if you do it right, you'll never be sore. I was sore as, yeah, I've never been more sore when I finished that.

So if you combine his, if you combine his extreme isometrics while you're hooked up to electro stem, you're extremely sore the next day. But do a little magnesium oil and some foam roller, it's usually not too bad. Well, we're up against time. Is there anything else that you want to share with your audience? I'm going to be sure and put a link to Holotrophic breathing and also to your Onnit website and the Shroom tech and the alpha brain that you talked about. But anything else you want to drop on us before you let us go?

Yeah, if you're more curious about any of the things I talked about, obviously about the supplements, go to onnit.com, o n n I-t.com and then if you're curious about any of the other kind of explorations that I've done, I go into pretty good detail on my own blog, WarriorPoet US and you can kind of check all that out. I've made some pretty cool videos and just understand my philosophy better. But yeah, pretty easy to reach out. We got all the social media filled out so. But if you go to our sites you can find that all pretty easily and you know, just appreciate the chance to be on here and talk about the things I love.

Cool. Aubrey, thanks for joining us.

Absolutely. Take care Ben.

Alright, later.

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Sam.