Tony Robbins, Peter Diamandis & Ben Greenfield Reveal New Anti-Aging Biohacks & Breakthroughs in Precision Medicine You've Never Heard Of Before.

On this episode of the Ben Greenfield.

Fitness Podcast, I want to go to the greatest sources on earth, simplify it into actionable things that people can do, and I want to show people what they can do to have more energy, strength, and vitality. You don't have to wait for some giant intervention. You can make these minor interventions and see radical changes in the quality of your life.

And then people say, well, I don't want to know. And I was like, bullsh t, of course you want to know. You know, especially now where you can do so much about it.

I'm definitely looking forward to a decade from now when I can head down to Safeway to get pickles and yogurt and grab a spleen.

Performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show.

My guests on today's podcast are people who you probably are already a little bit familiar with. They just partnered up and wrote an.

Amazing new book called Life Force. It's a book about precision medicine, regenerative.

Medicine, anti aging, longevity.

Great book.

The authors are Tony Robbins and Peter Diamandis. Tony Robbins is an entrepreneur. He's a great author, philanthropist, business strategist. Really great guy. And I could probably go on for an hour about him or Peter and all the things that they've achieved, but Tony's just doing some really, really now in the realm of medicine and anti aging and longevity. And I actually thought going into this interview that I was just going to be interviewing him, but Peter showed up, too, so you get a two for one.

Hooray.

Peter was named by Fortune magazine as one of the world's 50 greatest leaders. He's the founder and executive chairman of the Xprize Foundation. He's the founder of Singularity University. And he's also a guy who's super duper on the cutting edge when it comes to investing in what he calls.

Exponential technologies, including those that are helping to regenerate our bodies.

So we had a great, fun chat. Enjoy. Oh, and all the things we talk.

About you can find@BenGreenfieldFitness.com LifeForce, the books, articles, studies, et cetera.

All right, here we go. All right, so when I read this book, I kind of expected it to be another one of these longevity books, right? Like maybe eat your wild blueberries and your superfood smoothie. Eat, like, the Okinawans or the people in the Mediterranean. And maybe if you got a little bit of extra cash in the wallet, buy some nad or something and call your doctor about stem cells. And when I open up the book and began to read. I started to fold over page after page after page about ghost hearts and tissue regeneration and stem cells. Yeah, but different forms of stem cells and nad, but these upgraded forms I'd never heard of. And holy cow, you guys really pulled together a pretty impressive, impressive body of knowledge in the realm of longevity and anti aging here.

Thank you very much. Well, you know, we interviewed 150, you know, of Nobel laureates, some top scientists, medical doctors. So nothing in is our opinion. And you know, it started out really, you know, I've been obsessed with finding answers to the quality of life for people throughout my life. But one of the triggers for doing this for me this time was, you know, I have this injury that they told me was going to end my career. And I'm used to going out to a group of, you know, 10, 15, 20,000 people and going 12 hours a day for four days in a row doing insane things with my body. But I had this experience where I was going down this mountainside chasing somebody much younger and almost near professional snowboarder, and he could do things I couldn't do. And that became obvious when I felt like I just broke my neck. I mean, the pain was insane. I ended up just tearing my rotator cuff severely. I was on a 0 to 10, like 9, 9 pain. And so you know what I do? I. Well, I first I found out about PMF because I can only sleep an hour a night. And you know, as you know, there's about 3,000 studies on it. It can, you know, heal your bones in 50% of the time, help with your nerves. It reduced the pain to about a PI.

Pulsepulsed electromagnetic field therapy for people listening in and not familiar. It's kind of like a Swiss army knife.

Yeah, it's extraordinary. It's one of the best tools you can imagine. So it helped me, but it couldn't heal everything. It was too severe. So of course I went to all these doctors and every single one surgery, surgery, surgery, you know, four in a row. But when I asked them, okay, well, what's the prognosis? Will I be able to do everything? Well, you might not be able to lift your shoulder all the way up in the care again. Well, what's the recovery time? Well, rehab is four to six months, probably for you. And I was just like, I can't have one arm tied to me while I go out and try to get 10,000 people doing this. But the bottom line is the last doctor I talked to, I mean, this guy you know, he used my work and thanked me for all the great things I've done. I've never met him before. And then he goes, but now I got to be your doctor. He looks me in the eye and says, life as you know it is over. I was like, what? He goes, let me show you your spine. And I have extreme spinal stenosis. I've had enormous pain for over 14 years. And he goes, One, you cannot do what you're doing. No more jumping, no more running, no more snowboarding. He goes, let me show you. One hit here and you might not be able to walk again. You know, if somebody punches you in the gut and you're prepared for it, it's one thing, but I got to tell you, I'm usually pretty prepared. I wasn't prepared for that.

Yeah, time to move into the basement and become a blogger.

Well, I hadn't thought about that. Perhaps that would have been a good move. But fortunately for me, you know, my brain kicked back in and my heart. And I was like, okay, there's always an answer. And so I called Peter because, you know, Peter's my dear friend and, you know, he's a rocket scientist and an MD from Harvard. It's like, I've heard so much about stem cells. Some people say it's all bs. All these doctors told me it's worthless. But I've heard from other people, you know, some of my athlete friends who are goats, greatest of all time, who went over to Germany, went to other places and swear by them. So I said, who should I talk to? And he said, well, you should talk to Bob Hararis. And I didn't know at the time, you know, I knew Bob was a neurosurgeon. I didn't know he was one of the earliest people to discover the impact of stem cells. And, you know, I didn't know at the time. It's like saying, I want to learn about basketball. Let me introduce you my friend, LeBron James, right? So I go see Bob and I'm so impressed by Bob. And Bob says, listen, Tony, at your stage of life, I was 53. He said, there's no way. He said, your stem cells have dropped off the cliff. If you go do autologous, which means the stem cells from your own body, it's not going to work. You need allergenic, big word for cells from someone else. But you need four day old stem cells with a force of life, life force in them. And I said, well, I don't want fetal tissue. And he said, no, you don't need to do that. We're talking about cord or placenta stem cells. He said, you know, they've been thrown away by most people, but it's the force of life. And he said, I told me where to go. So I listened to Bobby.

Well, cord or placenta, the reason you say that they would be thrown away is. And I don't know when this injury occurred, but are you referring to the fact that people were favoring their own fat or their own bone marrow, like these autologous procedures at the time?

No, I'm just talking about pregnancies when babies are born.

Okay, I gotcha. I gotcha.

Yeah, they throw them away. So he told me a place to go to that was experts in this area. I went down, I spent three days. I got an IV once a day, and I got a shot. And the first day I just felt, you know, sleepy and relaxed and was fine. The second day, you know, I woke up, I had a cytokine response. Fortunately, I knew what it was, so I didn't overreact. Shaking, you know, freezing for about 20 minutes. And then I went to sleep. And I woke up for the first time in 14 years. Not only was my shoulder perfect, no pain in my spine. The first time in 14 years. So you can imagine, Ben, I became an evangelist. I want to know everything about stem cells. And then I realized it's not just stem cells. We're in a revolution of precision medicine. And I regenerative medicine. And then Peter was going to the Vatican. Believe it or not, the Pope every two years, puts on the largest stem cell and regenerative medicine conference in the world. Because it's not fetal tissue. He sees it a gift to humanity. He brings people from all over the world the very best. And they asked me to be the.

Thing at the Vatican.

Yeah. And they asked me to be the cleanup speaker. And I was like, okay, I'll do that, but I want to come to the whole program, and I tend the whole thing. And I met 11 year old that was supposed to die that Bob had turned around. The kid was 4 years old, and they saw no solution, and they got stem cells from his young sister, and he's alive today. I met people that were sent home to die with various forms of cancer. And then people didn't give up, and they went and got car T cells, for example, and they're alive today, seven years later. I don't know if you saw, but nature this last week said 10 years now these car T cells are still alive. It's the first time I've seen anybody in that market talking about a cure, but for leukemia and liquid cancers. And then I got to meet Jack Nicklaus, who the greatest golfer of all time. They were going to fuse his spine. He couldn't stand for more than 10 minutes without immense pain. And spinal fusion does not work at least 50% of the time. Fortunately, he got stem cells. He's 82 now and he plays golf and plays tennis. Complete change of life. So I said, I went to Simon and Schuster and said, I want to do what I did with money. I want to go to the greatest sources on earth, I want to interview them, I want to synthesize and simplify it into actionable things that people can do. And I want to show people what they can do to have more energy, strength and vitality. But I also want to show them what's happening with longevity. And I also want to show them what to do with the big killers so that there's something else besides standard of care, which often is not enough, as you and I both know. So that's when we started discovering these things like, you know, you know, obviously about, you know, you know, gene therapy and what's happening with crispr where we're curing diseases never to ever cure. You know, we're taking stem cells and getting people to walk again, use the arms again. You know, we got, you know, there's a single injection that's made by a company right now that's in phase three trials, you know, the final stage. They hope to be approved the end of the year beginning next year. Single injection triggers your WNT pathway, the signaling pathway makes you make up new tendons. So if you have osteoarthritis within 11 months, you have all new tendons. And because it's a clean epigenome they're pulling from, you end up with like 16 year old tendons, even if you're 50 or 60 years old.

Was that the bio splice therapy that you talked on, the book or something? Okay, that was Biosplice. So I'm glad that you brought that up because I'm going to slow things down here for just a second. Either you guys, Peter or Tony, you can ask this question because you actually have, and I think this is wonderful for illustrative purposes, you have two fascinating individuals in this book. So fascinating, in fact, I handed my twin 13 year old sons the book with those two sections folded over and I said, read about these two inspiring individuals. They're doing, doing amazing things. And I had my sons read that and the first person was Osman Kibar. I don't know if I'm pronouncing his name properly. And he's the guy who started up this whole bio splice thing. So I would love for one of you guys to explain a little bit more about what biosplice is, but if you could give a little bit of a background of who this Osman guy is, because he got some unicorns in this book who are just, holy cow, they're doing some really cool stuff.

And there's, you know, the one thing. And I want. I'll let Peter, just because I've been talking so much, I apologize. I'm doing all day long by myself. I'll let Peter answer. But I do want to mention one thing. Osman. And, you know, I don't know who the other one you're picking, but there's so many to pick from.

Martin.

Yeah, of course. Martin Rothblatt. These are the people that, if you look at them, almost all of the people that created these breakthroughs, you know, Ben, they had one thing in common. They lost a mother or a brother or a sister or a wife or a child or someone super close to them. And it set them into a 10, 20 year hunger and drive to say, I won't settle for standard of care. I'm going to find the answer even though there isn't one. You know, like Dr. June, for example. And here we are 10, 20 years later, and we're all going to get to benefit from it. But Peter, I've been talking. Why don't you tell them about Biospice?

I'll jump in on Martin, who I know so well for 40 years.

Oh, you know Martin. Okay, so Martin's the other person. Yeah, that's fine. Tell me about Martin, because I know she did some different things.

Martin is extraordinary. So you have to understand, Martine was the creator of Serious and XM Radio. She was a regulatory lawyer for satellite industry. Her daughter Genesis comes down with a disease that pulmonary fibrosis that the doctors say to Martine, this is fatal. Your daughter's going to die in a couple years and there's no solution. What does Martine do, the rock star that she is? She quits the board of her company, she cashes in and she sets out on her very first moon. Actually, it's her second moonshot. Her first moonshot was satellite radio, which she made happen. Second moonshot was cure her daughter. What she starts with is a high school textbook, sits in the medical library, starts reading everything she can, not knowing.

Anything about like anatomy and physiology or anything. She comes from a tech background.

This is Biology 101, you know, this is like, this is a cell and this is a nucleus and this is the lung tissue and so forth. Long story short, she goes on this wild journey trying to get some grapple on some pharmaceutical that could deal with pulmonary fibrosis. And she finds a single scientist at one of the large pharmas. Do you remember which one it was?

Tony, I don't remember the name of it, but they had that drug that didn't work out for what they wanted, but could help make the difference on the lung for his daughter.

So first of all, she's like, give me that medicine, let me try it on my daughter. And they're like, no, we don't trust you with this medicine. We can't just give it to anybody, we could be sued, etc. So she gets this incredible panoply of advisors and physicians and supporters, and she finally gets access to the drug. And what, she gets a little packet of white dust, basically some crystallized of the particular molecule. And she goes through a drug discovery process, creates this drug, starts the company, United Therapeutics, effectively cures her daughter, and then builds what is today a nine and a half billion dollar company.

And this is a subtle nuance, by the way, Peter, that I think folks should know. This was like a worthless powder. This was like a totally abandoned, I don't know, what do they call them, like orphan drugs that nobody was using. She licensed it for. I'm sure the pharmaceutical company was kicking themselves afterwards.

Well, they got a percentage of future revenue, so I'm sure they fine for something that was taking up refrigerator space. But at the end of the day, that wasn't enough for her. She was like, okay, this drug can postpone the onset of pulmonary fibrosis, but what my daughter needs is a new set of lungs. And so she sets out on a mission of how of organogenesis, how can you build new organs? And she sets out on three and four different approaches. One approach is, can you take organs that are harvested from someone who passes away, but reperfuse them, get them functional again? And she designed and built machines that could reperfuse the lungs to get them back to a status that they were transplantable. She then set out on a mission with a gentleman by the name of Craig Venter, who sequenced the first genome with the notion, turns out that pig organs are the same size as human organs. A pig heart, liver, lung, kidney, looks very much like that of a human.

Right the only people that knew that, by the way, are the carnivore diet enthusiasts listening in.

Absolutely. But the problem is, if you took a pig lung or kidney and you transplanted it, your immune system would destroy it as a foreign body. But also in the genome of pigs are these endogenous retroviruses, these viruses that pop out and then infect the rest of your body. They knocked out the retroviruses, they modified 10 genes in the pig genome to make it sort of a humanized pig. And just recently, Martine's company transplanted the first kidney and also the first heart into a human subject. This is the potential to have a near infinite supply of organs and bacon at the same time. I mean, it's pretty extraordinary coming down the pike.

Yeah. And I mean, not only is it crazy that she comes from a background in tech, knowing nothing about this, winds up taking an orphan drug and turning into an effective treatment for pulmonary fibrosis and saving her daughter, but then figures out how to make actual human friendly organs from pigs.

And you know something, you know, it's going beyond that now, as Peter will share with you. But like Tony Atala, Anthony Atala at Wake Forest University has been, you know, the DOD has been funding him for more than 14 years. He has an approach of spraying on a scaffolding, your own stem cells, building an organ. For 12 years, he's had people with bladders in them that are perfect because they don't get rejected, and baking them over 30 or 40 days to build these. And now he's not in. You know, in the book, we give you examples like soldiers, their ears, you know, blown off, and he just regrows a new ear with their own, you know, exact stem cells. And now share with him, Peter, about what's happening now with the. Almost like the forward approach to building organs.

Yeah, I'll just mention quickly on Martine, the other thing she's doing is she's looking at 3D printing organs, where she's 3D printing, using human connective tissue to create the skeleton of the lung and then putting it into a bath of stem cells and having lung cells effectively differentiate on that lung tissue.

Right? You basically have the skeleton, you have the scaffolding, you got the stem cells. Same reason that Tony was able to basically regrow his tissue from the snowboarding accident. And they're using that same technology, just basically build a lung or build a heart.

Now, what's miraculous even compared to all that, is another hero in the book. And one of the things that Tony and I truly Enjoyed. And Tony's such a masterful storyteller. It comes through so beautifully, is telling these hero stories. Another hero is a gentleman by the name of Dean Kamen. Most all of you might know him as the creator of the Segway, which is the unfortunate side, because he's much more famous than that. He created the implantable insulin pumps and the Luke arm for people who have lost their arm. Robotic arms and robotic.

Okay, well.

Well, hold on. We just. We just established that. That one of the common Internet myths has now been debunked. The guy who invented the Segway did not commit suicide by writing a segue up a cliff. You know, that's a thing.

I never heard that story.

Yeah, that's. That's. That's the myth on the end. Okay, so this guy's still alive. He's still doing cool stuff.

We got a real breakthrough from this book, now, didn't we? Y.

If the book does nothing else, you got that going for you.

Dean is alive and kicking and thriving. So, anyway, Dean's a rock star. 1500 patents. He's extraordinary. And about two, three years ago, he ends up getting a grant from the defense department with the audacious mission of can you build a machine that can manufacture any human organ? Now, I want you to think about this, what he's built. And we went out to New Hampshire to the Advanced regenerative manufacturing institute. AR and I saw this my own eyes. It's about 40ft long. In one end, you put tissue samples. It can be skin cells or other cells you want to donate. It's converted to what's called an induced pluripotent stem cell. So your cells in your body, your heart cells, liver cells, bone cells, your brain cells, are all differentiated. They're super specialized. But if you treat those cells in a very specific fashion, you can get them back to an embryonic state where they can re. Specialize into some other cells. You can go from skin to these pluripotent stem cells, and then from the pluripotent stem cells to heart tissue. For example, you put the pluripotent stem cells in one end of the machine. Depending on what you're building, anywhere from 45 to 90 days later, out the other end of the machine comes your human organ that's been matched to your exact DNA. They've done this with bone. Ligament. Bone segments that you could use for repairing your ankle. And the next mission that they're focused on is pediatric hearts. So you never think about it. If a child needs a heart transplant, where Is he or she going to get it from? It's not a good situation. But imagine if you could actually 3D print a heart ready for transplant. That's what they're working on right now with the target of the next year.

And by the way, listen, as a target of the next year, when you first hear this, you think this is such bs but when we were talking to Martine and she was saying, I was saying, okay, when do these, you know, pig parts going to be able to be installed? And we're, you know, both Peter and I think in five years, three years, six years, by the time your book comes out, it'll be happening. And she texted me a couple weeks ago when they first did the first implant where it was in person who actually died. They were just keeping me alive. And then, of course, just a few weeks ago, they did the first heart implant, a big heart implant of a live person, like, literally exactly on time. Martine's great gift is to take giant moonshots and break them into something that's truly solvable in chunks. Like one year chunks. What's going to get done? And she thinks that way, and she solves things that level. She's even, you know, she's so conscious, she doesn't want to just send these body parts on little Learjets that use all that fuel. So she built the first electric helicopter that could go any distances and funded it, got the thing done. I mean, this is the level of creativity that's there. So imagine, you know, your car's old, but you put in new tires, you put in a new engine, you do a new paint job, you do a new interior. That's basically what we're going to be able to do with our bodies. And we're Talking about not 30 years in the future. We're talking about with kids perhaps a year or two with their heart. We're talking five years, six years, seven years, ten at the outside. I mean, this is. You got to take care of yourself so you can take advantage of these things.

Yeah, look, I'm definitely looking forward to a decade from now when I can head down to Safeway to get pickles and yogurt and grab a spleen along with it. Amazing. You know, you briefly alluded to Bio Splice, and I brought up Osman as another very inspirational individual. Within the book. I have a lot of listeners who are kind of. They're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel or whatever you want to call it. You know, super active exercise enthusiasts, you know, reaching 40, 50 60. The joints are starting to hurt, and at the back of their heads, they're starting to wonder what's going to be available for things like connective tissue regeneration or helping to fix joints. I know Biosplice does a lot more than that, but tell me about Osman and Biosplice and what they're doing.

Well, Osman has got a really unique history. He's a math genius and he's from Turkey. And his entire company is made up of. The basis of it are these four leaders that all got in this special school. In order to get in, you have to be the best and the best in Europe. He won the European math competitions. He went out and won the World Series of Poker and did so well that he got bored and moved on to give you an idea. And so he a variety of things in his background, but one of his dear friends from back in this Turkish high school for Made for the Best of the Best became one of the top lawyers on Wall Street. Another one of his buddies there became, you know, with the top people on medical science. He brought them all together when he came up with this idea of this ability to recreate by understanding the WNT pathway. The WNT pathway. WNT actually is a signaling pathway. And it, you know, when you're born, everything after you're born, after the fetal tissue has begun, is coming from stem cells. And the WNT pathway says this many stem cells for brain cells, this many for stomach, this many for leg muscles, whatever the case may be. And so they learned that they could accelerate it or turn it down. So they've got, I think it's eight cancers they're working on right now. They've had extraordinary results with where you take a pill and the pill goes through your system. If there's nothing wrong, it passes the system. But one of the biggest problems with cancer, as you know, is metastasization somewhere else in your body. And it down regulates this overgrowth that cancer cells have, or in the cases, let's say your knee, it increases the stimulation. And they've learned how to monitor this with a tremendous level of precision. Again, they're in phase three trials on those. You know, the pieces you're concerned about, your knees, your ankles and so forth. These guys have all had the injections themselves. Like, you know, they injured himself in soccer and, you know, he got himself fat and he's got brand new knees. It's just pretty extraordinary. This is phase three, so it could still not work, but I'd bet on them in a heartbeat. If it doesn't work, they'll find another approach. But so far it looks incredibly good. And so it's cancers. It's how do I change the regulation, how do I upregulate or down regulate through this bio splice technology.

And it's for different tissues of ligaments and tendons and cartilage and so forth. And one of the points that he made, which was interesting, is that the WNT pathway, when you're stimulating stem cells, it works as well for your stem cells if you're 20 or if you're 60 or if you're 80. And so this is about giving hope to people who are like, you know, and I've had these conversations with some of my. The people that I mentor and support who are going in for total knee replacements. It's like, dude, if you, like, replace it all with metal, you can't grow the cartilage back there.

It's gone.

Yeah.

So consider carefully before you do that.

Right. And that's basically what regenerative medicine is. It's a. It's a regeneration rather than a removal and addition of a new component. Now, the interesting thing about that, that went pathways you alluded to, and I think that's important, Peter, is no matter how old you are, once the stem cells are triggered, they can start to regenerate if that WNT pathway is triggered. And you guys mentioned there's a capsule. And you talk about peptides in the book. And the thing with peptides is you can inject them and they can be injected locally. They can also act systemically if you just do a subcutaneous injection in the fat tissue. Say now with this biosplice, are you saying you could swallow a capsule and it'll just act systemically wherever it's needed? Or would it also be an injectable? Or you could take it straight into the joint that needs it.

Injectable. When you're doing knees, it's a pill when they're dealing with cancer because they want to go through the whole system because of metastasization. Right. That's the biggest challenge with cancer.

So.

So Ben, I have. I have Osman on my stage years back, and he's going through his presentation and he's talking about what Bisplace can do, and it can, you know, grow your cartilage, it can cure this cancer over here, and then it can grow hair. And the audience explodes.

Excitement.

When he got to the hair part.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah. Because that's important. We all know that's more important than lungs or cancer or heart or Anything. You know, I mentioned peptides. You guys have a great little spread on peptides in there. Have you looked into thesethese peptide bioregulators at all? These very, very small. They're smaller amino acid chains than peptides, but they're out of Russia. Dr. Kavinson over in Russia is the main researcher on these for decreasing the rate at which telomeres shorten and regenerating organs using peptides thatthat target specific organs. You know, you take one for your testes and one for your lungs and one for youryour pancreas, etc. Do you guys use peptides or peptide bioregulators at all?

Yeah, we do use peptides, and there' sthere several. I mean, there's a whole chart in the book. I can't even remember half of them in terms of. Because IB7, 29 and so forth. But as you know, there's some for immune. One that's really interesting that most people have no knowledge about is it's one that, you know, men have a blue pill if they have a challenge because it's only blood flow, but for women, hormonally, it can be a lack of desire. And there's one that stimulates the neurological level of desire in men and women. And we were just talking to Mark Hyman. He said, yeah, I tried that thing. And he goes, it was unbelievable.

Is that a PT141?

I think it is PT141. I have to look it up.

I have some little trochees up in my pants, basically. PT141 and progesterone and tadalafil, and you take that thing, you know, a few hours before a date night, and holy cow, you're right, that's. That's a very interesting peptide, but it's a nice one.

It's a nice one for your date as well. Not just you, because, you know, most men getting that desire is not as much difficulty sometimes. I'm only for women is. And so that's where the real breakthrough is. But as you know, there are ones for weight loss, there's ones that are for the immune system. And so we do a full catalog of it and then talk to you about what the upsides and downsides are of them and how to make sure you get, you know, the proper education and the right doctor for it. We actually, you know, just like, hormones are so important. We all know about hormones. Most women because of menopause are familiar with it, but they're looking at hormone replacement therapy. What's currently now. And you know, this Ben, but not everybody does, is hormone optimization therapy. We make minor shifts, but a huge shift in your energy or your strength, men or women. We had a gentleman that was. I forgot all he was. But he's 36 pounds overweight. He came to Fountain Life. You know, his wife's frustrated, he's frustrated, got brain fog and everything else and, you know, look at everything. And he's like, oh, I've had my hormones looked at. You know, doctors don't tell people till they get to a place where it's a problem. So he was like, I think it was 225. And you probably know 7, 8, 900. Most men need to feel reasonably strong and alive, but they don't say anything until you're like, I don't know what the number is. 175 or whatever. When you got a problem today, you don't have to wait for some giant intervention. You can make these minor interventions and see radical changes in the quality of your life.

Yeah, yeah, I love it. And write a note to yourself, guys, by the way, Toto look into. To look into not just peptides, but peptide bioregulators. Mark my words, those are gonna be something that are a big thing in the anti aging and longevity industry in the next several years.

We'll check it out.

We started to talk about these little molecules that are cool. I'd love to shift for a second and talk about a few of those. You know, when I was introducing you guys, I mentioned nad and obviously a lot of people are into NAD days for life extension, for DNA repair, et cetera. I was intrigued, though. There was a page in the book where you guys talked about kind of a new game in town when it comes to boosting NAD levels. Tell me about that one. It had one of those C3PO names.

This is MIB626. It's called. Just so that everybody I know, Ben, you're so well read and so know it, but just make sure your audience is up to speed. Just think about three things. First, you know, we all know DNA is not our destiny at this point. It's the epigenome above the genome, right? So the genome has got, you know, those 3.2 letters from mom and dad, billion letters. And you got your instruction, your genes from that. But think of that like the piano. The epigenome is the piano player. Well, what affects the epigenome as you know, diet, exercise, sleep, radiation, chemicals, all those things play a role. But those seven master genes, the sirotuins as I'm sure you know, play two critical roles. And people need to hear this. The first role, and they're competing roles. The first role is they turn on and off the genes which can determine your life or death or the quality of your life. The second thing they do is they bring down inflammation, which, as you know, is one of the basis of most disease. Thirdly, they go and help to make sure that NAD gets into the cell, and you actually get the transformation of the energy in the mitochondria in the body with those. Those energy furnaces. But they also.

Which is why a lot of people will combine NAD with a sirtuin activator, like resveratrol, for example.

So that's. Exactly. And that's something David Sinclair does. We talk about that in the book. But in addition, it has a competing task. And that competing task is it also goes and cleans up your DNA, because as you age, you get more exposure to radiation, to crap in the environment, bad diet, all those things, and you accumulate challenges. Well, when sirtuins are properly fueled, which, you know, comes from nad, right? NAD is what's fueling that. Well, NAD drops off the cliff in your 50s, and it starts dropping in your late 40s. And so all of a sudden, you don't have enough energy. And it's gotta decide, am I gonna clean up your DNA or am I gonna provide this, you know, protection that you need for inflammation? And so nad, as you know, needs the precursor of NMN to make it work. But here's what we found is so important for your audience to know this. We tested six different brands because we're doing our homework, and there was no NMN in any one of them. And I went to the, you know, the lab, and I said, how's this possible? These guys, are they just thieves? Most of it comes from China originally. And they said, well, they could be, but it also breaks down in 30 to 45 days. So by the time people get it, most of it is worthless. It's. It's, you know, it's psychological. But this new. And the reason it breaks down is, you know, that's how it works. So this group called Microbiotics, Metro Biotech, excuse me, the founder of Ed Shelux, come to my house here this Saturday again. So I became an investor in the company because I couldn't believe the results. So here's what your audience needs to hear, just for a second. When you give a mice nmn, an old mouse. An old mouse is 20 months. It'd be like a 70 year old person without giving men. In the end, they can do a quarter of a kilometer on a treadmill. A young powerful mouse can do four times that, 1 km, 14 days on real NMN. And the mice can run 2 to 3 km, 2 to 300% more than a strong mice and multitudes more than their normal. So the question is, where do you get the best nmn? So Ed Schulich and his group, he went and hired one of these breakthroughs started to happen. Some of the best people in the world, you know, like Altos Labs, where they put together all these geniuses, he's got about 150 of them also that are working with him on these solutions in a variety of areas, but this is one of them. And they came up with a crystallized molecule that is like NMN and produces the same result but does not break down. And instead of gaining 30% absorption, which you see, let's say in mice on M and N, you get somewhere between 200 and 300%. But here's what's exciting. Mice studies don't always transfer, as you well know, to humans. Here's what's amazing. And this got released inadvertently by a commander who was not supposed to talk about this is all top secret. But about a month and a half ago in Boston, one of the commanders, they've had a two year study with our special forces and then it was in the Daily Mail like last week. And the reporting is still not accurate because they don't know the details and I can't tell you the exact details. We're investors in the company or I'm investor in the company anyway, and so I know some of it, but it can't be released yet. But here's what I can tell you. They just finished the study for two years. They got all the data. The commander was so excited, he told people the results. For the strongest people in the world, these special forces, men and women, their level of endurance has exploded. Similar to the mice, their muscle development from the same amount of exercise has exploded. And most importantly, especially for the military, their cognitive capacity has gone through the roof. So when you're exhausted, can you still think and function? You know, Ed was introduced to me, he said he's got this friend that's now 72 years old. He hasn't played world class chess since his 60s because the problems he's had because the brain requires the most energy. He's been doing this and in the man. And now he's playing world class chess at 72 years old. Now you know, with COVID it goes in and it messes with our mitochondria. Right. One of the sources that you need. So they have, I think they're on phase three. I'm pretty sure I'm going to find out on Saturday on not only preventing Covid but the recovery from long term Covid. They've got a study, another university on the kidneys which are affected by Covid. But the most exciting thing is this is not going to be a nutraceutical. This they're going through the fda, they're doing a parallel path along with the military and they think in 18 to 24 months they should have approval because the safety has already been covered and so forth efficacy. So really going closer to phase three trials, this means anyone will be able to do the most important things in life. Have the maximum energy in your cells, have the right genes turned on and off and have your DNA cleaned up. But when, right now, when you get to 50, it pretty much drops off the cliff. So it's one of the more exciting breakthroughs I see coming down the pipe.

That's amazing. And I wanna make sure people heard you say that it drastically affects cognitive performance because that's what a lot of people don't know about nam. You look at all these NAD and NR supplements. NMN is the, it's the only NAD precursor that can efficiently increase likelike your hippocampal and your hypothalamic NAD level. So that's important that they're using this NMN precursor because they're actually getting the cognitive aspects as well. So that one's called what is again MIB.

MIB626.

MIB626. But here's what's cool, is that you guys also talk about something else related to NAD that you know, correct me if I'm wrong, it seems like it could possibly stack quite well with this, this MIB626. And that's NAD3. Another, another one. I think it's more of a nutraceutical. I was unfamiliar with it. Tell me about that one.

Peter, you want to pick that up with NR as well?

Well, so one of the things that Tony and I wanted to do in this book was give people an on ramp, give them an action plan for people who say yes, I want to, you know, I'm in for this journey of increasing energy and vitality. And along the way we met a gentleman, Dr. Victor Lopez, Dr. Hector Lepoz, who is one of the world's experts on nutraceuticals. And he became a world's expert by virtue of testing what's out there. So he's the. He'd run the lab that would test.

Nutraceutical to say what's using AI, by the way. So it's. That's why he's more sophisticated than most. And.

And what he ended up doing was realizing that a lot of the formulations were. Were very weak and they didn't have the right combination. So he ended up putting together a series of. Of formulations that we actually make available for folks who want to pursue it. One called peak rise, one called peak energy, one Peak vitality, and peak longevity. And these are formulations that include nr, nmn, and other precursors. So, I mean, the details are on the lifeforce.com website.

Yeah, yeah, it's a very interesting formulation. I have it where's. Yeah, it says it's got wasabi, theocrine, copper, niacin. Basically, it's kind of turbocharging the enzymes that boost the conversion of NAD precursor. So, you know, I don't know if they messed around with these at all with the MIB636 study or 626 studies, but it'd be interesting to see what the effects would be combining something like that with NAD3. And so I think probably the takeaway story here for people who are interested in nr, nmn, or NAD is that there's some really cool things coming down the pipeline related to that.

I'm blown away by your level of detail. I've listened to your podcast once or twice, but you're a real master of these details. I'm really impressed. Very few people understand the dynamics between these.

Well, I'm a dummy, but just don't ask me about crypto or what's ranked high on rotten tomatoes right now, because I failed out. But I like to talk about that stuff.

Well, I'll tell you, one of the things we did is, you know, hope we'll get a chance. We should talk about diagnostics at some point because it's so critically.

Yeah, I do, because you talk about fountain life, and I was just intrigued. This seems like the medical clinic of the future. There were three things. There were three things that I thought were fascinating when it came to fountain life. And I'll give you a chance to say what that is momentarily. But I can tell you right now the three things that really caught my eye. Early detection of heart attacks, early detection of cancer, and early detection of Alzheimer's, respectively. This clearly the grail and the combinostics I know it's a horrible interviewer who asks a whole bunch of questions at once, but let's get into early detection. Go ahead.

Let me take cancer, heart disease, and Peter, maybe do the Alzheimer's, because I know it's one of your favorites, especially with Dr. Tanzi. But let me give an example on cancer because it's such a simple example. Again, the majority of the time when people die of cancer, it's because they find it out at stage two or stage three. And most of the cancers that get us are the ones we have no tests for. So, you know, we have colonoscopies, women have mammograms. But the challenge is the cancer society did a study with 100,000 people and this is what they came out as the general of the entire summary of what they learned. Roughly 80% of the time, if you find out it's stage three or stage four, your 80% chance of dying. I focus on the 20% chance of living what to do differently. But that's what they share. The message really is it's much harder at stage one or two. It's 80 to 99.9% chance that you live. But most of us don't discover this. So like we said, the heroes in this book all have this thing in common of something pushed them beyond. And this, you know, blood test that's been done now that's able to find 50 different cancers in your body before there's any symptoms. It was generated by a gentleman from Google who was the head of their investment in X division. And of course he lost his wife to cancer. A two year painful experience. And it just drove him to find these answers. And so now in combination with mri, because you have to go, plus the blood brain barrier on mri, you can now know exactly what's going in your body. We had a man come in, his wife again pushed him. This is another example of this. And he went through the typical physical and he did his blood analysis and he did urinalysis. And she said, you got to do this test. You got to do. It's called the Gravely test. He said, you do the test and he finds out that he's got kidney cancer. But it was at the early stages. So it was a 20 minute procedure, outpatient procedure, and he's cancer free. Otherwise this thing would have grown. Never even known about it with a traditional approach, you know, so that's one. The other one is the heart piece.

Clearly, and that's that, that, that early cancer technology is, that's just A simple blood biopsy, right? This is blood based.

That's all it is, a simple blood biopsy. That's the beauty of it. I think it's like a thousand bucks. It's gonna drop to about 600 bucks pretty quick. To know exactly where you stand, you know, and be able to kill.

Pardon me, Gallery. Is it called?

No.

Grail test.

Grail, yeah, grail. G R A, I L. Grail. I'm sorry, maybe I misspoke. But then there's the CCTA test. So, you know, one of our partners there, the Fountain Life, owns, as I said, 10 to 12. I think it's 12 now. He started hospitals and he just got tired of sick care and wanted to get in Prevention and want to get in precision medicine. And so that's why we built these Fountain Life centers across the US and we're doing some in Dubai and other parts. But he called me about five or six months ago and he says, Tony. And he's Mr. Understatement. And he says, tony, you gotta come see this. This is the greatest breakthrough I've seen in 10 years in cardiology. And I'm like, anybody else said that. I think they're full of it. But, you know, when Bill says this to you, he understates everything. I said, well, what is it? He said, well, you do the state of the art CT scan and you can barely read it. It's hard to tell. It's grayed out. You're looking to get a calcium score, and we don't know if it's hardened calcium or it's soft plaque.

That's a very important nuance. Maybe you were about to explain. But a lot of athletes, they'll go in and get these calcium scan scores and very dense, kind of like organized calcium plaques and heart tissue. They're actually not something to worry about too much, especially in these athletes. It's the less dense plaques that's the problem. People freak out. They get these high calcium scores and they're healthy and they freak out.

You read it exactly right. So what this is is an AI that opens up all the arteries and digitally goes through and says, is this soft black, or is this hardened calcium? Which means it's healed, it's healthy, it's not something to worry about. And as a result of that, they can predict the heart attack five years in advance and then tell you what to do to prevent it. We had a gentleman that came to Fountain Life. He couldn't get life insurance. I don't remember his score. It was insane. The number Highest number I've ever heard of. And Bill said, listen, we did his test and it was all hard in calcium, he is not a risk. And so they called the insurance company. Insurance companies almost never changed. But they showed them the new clearly CTA scan and they reversed themselves and gave them life insurance. To give you an idea, but let me tell you what I did when they told me this. I said, I'm in, I'm going to do the test, I'll come next week. And my father in law is with me. And he just turned 80 years old. And you know, as you get older, this is a guy was self made, you know, built a lumber business, but like every round's insane. Get your affairs in order, you're 80 years old, you never know what's going to happen, right? And I've watched over the last two or three years and kind of lose that energy. So I said, dad, I said, how about I'm going to go do this test, why don't you come with me and do it as well? I said, we're both old enough. We're going to have some soft plaques, but it'll show us where it is in the body. Precisely. Show us what to do to get rid of it. And he goes, okay, I'm in. We'll go, we go, we do the test. And my 80 year old father in law is clean as a whistle. I mean he is like so healthy. It's unbelievable. I was better than I was five years ago, super great. But he was better than I was. And you can't believe what it changed in his psychology. And then, you know, we have these techniques that we do with some of the great athletes in the world or just general people, you know, we work with all the Pittsburgh Steelers, the entire team. But you know, you get an injury, a soft tissue injury and it locks up, it might lock up the circulation, it might block off the blood flow, it might walk off nerves. And I had one on my ankle from jumping on stage from 15 years ago. No core rehab ever fixed it. And so if I got a massage, don't touch that ankle because I would get this like electric shock from the nerves up my leg.

Yeah.

And so I did it. They scan you with ultrasound, takes five minutes, they find the spot, they put in amniofluid, the substance, it opens it up the tissue, you get full circulation, the nerve pops in place. You can smack me as hard as you want now and doesn't feel anything. So dad's there, he's high as a kite that he's got a healthy, you know, heart. And now he says, I said, the guys, I said, can we look at his hip? Because, you know, part of what makes you all feel old, you're not able to be stable or walk right. He had real problems with his hips. So he spent about a half hour with him. Boom, his hip is perfect. He's walking smoothly there. We get on the plane, I was telling Peter the story, and he sits across to me. I'll never forget this moment. He looks at me and goes, you know, Tony, you know, these people talk about 110, 120. I don't know about that. But he said, you know, I got. My heart is perfect, my hip is perfect. I could live another 20 years. I could live to 100. You've only been married to my wife 20 or to my daughter 22 years. He said, you know what? It's like, that's like another lifetime. And he's like a different person. And that's the part that I want people to know. But Peter is the master of this. Because I was like, I don't want to get tested on these things in those days until I started seeing these stats I told you about. But Peter, tell them what you do. You just, you're smart. And.

And by. By the way, before Peter jumps it, was that a nerve hydrodissection protocol that they did on your dad? Although those are amazing. My friend, Dr. Dr. Matt Cook over in San Jose. Yes.

That's fantastic.

Oh my gosh. If I've got some, you know, I fly down there and he'll just like shove a few nerves to the side and get rid of pain instantly. It's crazy. I'm surprised more people don't know about.

Yeah, it's truly miraculous. So outside.

Go ahead, Peter.

Yeah. So, Ben, I mean, for the last five years, every year religiously, I go for my upload. In fact, tomorrow I'm going, I'm flying to Naples. We have a Fountain Life facility in Naples. In New York, we're opening up Dallas, we're in Philadelphia, we're opening up Denver, Santa Monica. Just, you know, and then number throughout England, Europe. I'm sorry, London, Abu Dhabi. Yeah. And. And India. And it's a five hour engagement. And during that five hours, you're going to get your full body mri, your brain, your brain vasculature. You're going to find any aberration. One of the things that's important is you're going to also get your baseline because when you find something off. And Tony and I had the exact Same situation. My aortic root of my heart, right where the aorta enters the heart was at the upper end of normal. And the first time the radiologist saw it is really concerned about it. And then especially since my father had some issues along that line. And the next year is identical, the next year is identical, the next year is identical. And that's just my normal baseline. So getting that baseline is so important. The clearly CTA same miraculous situation. Right. That it was, it really gave me confidence in my protocols of what I'm doing. But at the end of the day, I go every year and I feel naked and exposed if I don't go. And the challenge is we're all optimists about our health. We don't know that anything's going on. The stats are the following. From the first 1400 people that went through this kind of analysis, 2% were found to have a cancer they didn't know about. Two and a half percent had an aneurysm they don't know about. And 14.4% had a significant life threatening finding that they needed to get addressed within the next, within the next year. So, you know, we're all optimists. And then people say, well, I don't want to know. And I was like, bullshit, of course you want to know. You know, especially now where you can do so much about it.

Yeah, I mean, playing devil's advocate, you know, there are those cases where, where excessive medical screening leads to excessive medical costs and the detection of issues that may not have really been issues at all. But at the same time, when we're talking about getting a blood biopsy and being able to get early detection of dozens of different cancer markers, I mean, it seems like the pros outweigh the cons to me.

Well, and also the imaging systems of 20, 30 years ago really gave false positives a bad name.

That has been breast cancer, thyroid cancer, etc.

Yeah, I mean, it's really been minimized the technology and the, it's really the algorithms, you know, running on top of it. So one of the things we do with fountain life because you know, we've got six, seven centers this year, we'll have another seven centers or so in the next, the year that follows. But we created a operating system and we write about it in the book called Fountain OS. And Fountain OS is turned on in like 45 US states. We'll go beyond that where if you don't live near a fountain center, you can still use the Fountain OS app to ProCure a clearly AI coronary scan and a full body MRI and a grail test and all of those, we call them journeys, and then have the information uploaded to our algorithms and our AI and enter the system in that regard. And it's really. I'll just mention one other thing which I think is probably the most amazing thing that Fountain Life is doing. We built a health insurance company. Now, check this out for it's still in the early days, but if you're a company of 50 people or more, you can get Fountain Health. And for the same premium that you normally pay for your health insurance, you get included for your employees all of the diagnostic testing, the, you know, this clearly cta, the full body mri, the grail test, the blood test, and so forth, because it's flipping the model to make it, you know, personalized and preventative.

Right.

Fire insurance pays after your house burns down. Life insurance pays after you're dead. Right. Health insurance pays after you're sick, but not in this case. The whole idea is to be on the same side of the table.

And the. The detection, in addition to cancer and heart disease. That seemed pretty intriguing was this. I think it's called combinostics testing for Alzheimer's. You guys know about that one?

Yes.

We're basically beginning people to image the brain, image the ventricles, image the neuronal paths, to understand are you seeing early days of Alzheimer's. And then we have Dr. Rudy Tanzi, who's really one of the unsung heroes in the dementia space. He discovered the first genes around Alzheimer's and has been developing. You know, he's probably the most optimistic speaker I've heard on the future of dementia because he gives hope that this can be stopped and slowed and to even some degrees, reversed.

Wow. Amazing.

Actually, there's. You know, what's one. One of the great things that excited me when we did this research around Alzheimer's as well is two things. One is there's a company that was funded by Google that at ucsf, is restoring memories. You know, most people believe the neuroinflammation means you've lost the memories. We've always believed you get to a certain point, those memories are gone.

I don't lose any memories. They're all on Facebook. They pop up every day.

Well, I'm talking about people who don't have Facebook or have it in their mind. But what's interesting is they're now finding there's a new drug. It's called Isrib.

Okay.

And they're doing it with animals first Obviously with mice. But what they've proven is the inflammation is cutting the communication between the cells. When they're able to use this drug and reduce the inflammation, their original memories are back. Like they can suddenly remember how to go through, you know, these mazes that they went through two years previously before they were in this state. And so the most exciting thing is to think that we might be able not just catch it early, but even if you caught it a little bit later, be able to restore that communication. And then there's a gentleman who built this thing called Neuro Racer. And you know, you take people who are in their 70s, late 70s, and they're having the beginning stages of Alzheimer's and they play this game on an iPad. And I think it's 14 sessions. If my memory serves me right.

That was Adam Ghazali.

That's right.

Or University of California, I think, helped develop that. Yeah.

And these people in their 70s, after 14 sessions are able to multitask as well as the kids in their 20s. And so there's some really cool things. And Peter, you might want to mention about vaccinity as well.

By the way, you did make Cal Newport cringe just now talking about enabling seniors to multitask. I think he wants less people multitasking. But yeah, that's super exciting that. This is rib. It's an experimental drug to shut down inflammation related to the onset of dementia and Alzheimer's.

So another set of heroes in the book are Mei Mei Hu and Lou Reese, who are the co founders of company called Vaccinity. So obviously, vaccines have become all the vogue or all the conversation over the last couple of years in the pandemic. And vaccines have been extraordinary in dealing with infectious disease. What Vaccinity has done is use vaccines to be able to train your immune system to attack endogenous proteins in the body. And in other words, it's able to create. So for example, I take something called Repatha right now, which is a PCSK9 inhibitor. So in the liver there's an enzyme, PCSK9, that makes LDL the bad cholesterol. And I have genetic hypercholesteremia and it's always plagued me. I can't deal with statins, and so I would take an injection every two weeks of this. Of this monoclonal antibody.

But it's expensive.

It's like $14,000 a year because it's so expensive. It's a last line of defense, even though it is much better than taking statins. And what. So what a monoclonal Antibody is. Is an antibody created in a vat with cloned B cells creating these antibodies. You pull the antibodies out, you put it into a self injector and you inject it in yourself every two weeks. What if instead I could take a vaccination and train my own immune system to make the exact same antibodies against the PCSK9 vaccine? Except in this case, my factory makes it for free. Right. So an injection that can cost, you know, instead of 14,000 bucks for a year long, it cost 100 bucks.

Right.

It's literally a thousand times cheaper and can allow me to counteract hypercholesteremia, which is heart disease and stroke. Vaccinity has got a vaccine against Alzheimer's, it's got a vaccine against Parkinson's, it's developing vaccines against bone loss and muscle loss. So the goal is to really attack the chronic diseases of aging.

Yeah. Wow.

Okay, so you have full disclosure. We're both investors in that company ourselves too, just so people know. So we're quite enthusiastic about it. But we're also investors in it too.

Yeah. Okay, thanks. Thanks for mentioning that. So you've got two different pathways here that you're targeting the inflammatory pathway. And then with this vaccinity, it appears that that's primarily, if I understand correctly, targeting some of the amyloid plaque pathways. Exactly. I think probably the third thing to think about, I don't know if you guys have looked into this at all, is Dr. Diane Goodenow. I haven't interviewed him on my podcast yet, but he wrote a fantastic book called Breaking Alzheimer's. And he's been researching a lot of age associated, what he calls plasmalogen deficiency with the idea that some of these precursors to things like phosphatidylcholine that can help out with brain health and stave off neurodegeneration. His company, I think it's Prodrome Sciences, that they're now testing plasmalogen levels and finding that plasmalogen restoration targets another pathway of dementia and Alzheimer's, namely these plasmalogen deficiencies. So that's another one that I would imagine kind of like what's in place. Wrote the end of Alzheimer's blanking on his name. It's a multimodal approach to tackling Alzheimer's with ketones.

What's that company called?

Red light, etc. It's prodrome or Prodrome Sciences, I don't recall, but the name of the book is Breaking Alzheimer's. I'd never seen that approach before, but when paired with quelling inflammation and Targeting plaque formation. I could see us making huge breakthroughs in Alzheimer's in the next decade. So that's. That's exciting. Yeah, yeah, look into that guy. It's Diane Goodenow breaking Alzheimer's. Good book. I want to just because I've got such a big audience who's into fitness and working out and they beat up their bodies. We've talked a lot about regenerative medicine and longevity. But I'd be remiss not to give a head nod to a few of these things that I know you've tried, Tony, that have resulted in you being able to live a little bit more pain free. There was a special form of physical therapy that you tried. It was the Egoscu therapy. Can you tell people about that?

Yeah. I was in two car accidents, one on the way to racing school. Both cases I was rear ended. But the more severe one, as I was coming back from the airport, I'm sitting at a red light and I look up and the lights are coming fast. Guy gets me at 65 miles an hour at a stoplight. And everything happened in slow motion. I was obviously knocked unconscious. They pulled me out of the car and said, listen, you, you got to come to the hospital. And those days I was, I'm avoiding the hospital all costs. I said, I'll talk to my chiropractor tomorrow. And I woke up next morning and I couldn't move. So I spent the next two years doing every kind of physical therapy. Nothing worked. It start to work and I'd go to go on stage and I'd hit two steps and boom, my hips would snap under me and I'd be sitting in a chair at 26 years old. Like, you know, I'm an 80 year old man unable to move and trying to do my seminar. And then I met Pete Egoscue. And Pete Egoscue is a purple heart veteran from Vietnam. He was injured in battle and was told, you just have to live with the pain, take painkillers. And he'd never be able to walk properly again. And like all the other people, he just didn't accept that. And he began to study human physiology and he began to study the structure of the body. And he built his own set of principles on a set of exercises. Like, this guy can look at you and without you saying a word, he says, you got pain in your left hip, you got pain in the left, left, right side of your neck. You got this. I mean, like, he's like, you know, people look at him like, how can he know that he's that precise. And so I've known him for literally since I was in my 20s, so almost 40 years. And I, you know, I was, nothing else helped me. In the first session, I got out of pain. In the second session, I was consistently out of pain. By the time it was the third session, I felt like my normal self. And I've been doing his work, which he adapts to your body. It's individual for everybody. Now he's built an AI so he can help more people. But literally you can go get a session with him through the book. I think we've given people like a free session for him and you can see what's going on in your body, give you a couple of exercises that might take you 10 or 15 or 20 minutes and find yourself in a few days out of pain. I mean, it is extraordinary. In fact, Paul Tudor Jones, one of my dear friends, funded a $10 million study where they competed with various forms of surgery and compared to what Pete's done. And consistently, if you read the study, he beats them in terms of getting people sustainably out of pain and be functionally effective again. He wrote a book called Pain Free as well that people could pick up as well. Just actually new version of it just came out. Yeah, I think I briefly, I think.

I briefly seen it. You had it, you had an event in, in, in New Jersey and the, the guy who connected us, your, your trainer, Billy, Billy Beck, he invited me out there and I brought my sons.

And we were, we were, we were.

Walking around the stadium before we went in and I think it was Brian Bradley, I think is his name.

That's right. Brian is a dear friend.

Yeah, he, he, he, he said, oh, your sons want to, want to come up on the stage and lead these special exercises with me for thefor, the audience. And so my, I think my kids were like 10 years old and theythey got up there and did all these exercises and I think they were, theit wasit was like thisthis 5 minute routine, this egoscu routine for back pain. And I was sitting there watching and taking notes. I started doing that when I got home and it's actually remarkably effective. And you know, simple exercises you wouldn't think would actually work.

That's part of what we try to do in this book is give you those biohacks that are cost you nothing, take nothing, produce tremendous results around sleep, around diet, around exercise. I mean, it's like cancer. You know, people are so afraid of cancer. It's one thing is to prevent it. You know, one thing is to monitor it, but, you know, I'm sure, you know, broccoli sprouts, in fact, Billy is the one who turned me on this, are full of sulforaphane and it dramatically reduces the risk of cancer. And studies show it can reduce breast cancer cells by 80%. And it's like, you know, this is a no brainer, right?

Right. Pennies on the dollar, Pennies on the dollar. And not only that, but the broccoli sprouts. Dr. David Perlmutter has a new book, great title. It's called Dropping Acid. It's a, it's about this, this epidemic of high uric acid a lot of people don't know about. It's causing goi or gout, joint pain, etc. And he talks about all the fixes in the book. And broccoli sprouts are one of the ones that he recommends as a go to, to help out with the uric acid formation. So, yeah, everybody should have a little bag of these broccoli seeds in their freezer and, and toss them in smoothies. And it works great.

It's amazing. It's truly amazing.

There was one other form of therapy that I wanted to mention that I found intrigued. I think a lot of people would benefit from hearing about this one. Even though I haven't tried it, I'm interested. I marked it down as something to look into called counter strain. Tell me about that one.

Oh my God, you'd never believe this. This was created by an osteopath about 75 years ago. Somebody came to see him and couldn't sleep. And so he just tried to find a position where the guy could fall asleep. And then he had to go. He got in position, he was comfortable, so you had to go handle two other patients, came back, the guys to sleep. But what was amazing is when he woke up, he stood up out of pain. And so it started this doc on this journey of discovering that if you put the body in certain positions, it takes you out of the pain pattern that you have. And when the pattern is broken, the pain disappears, but you become functional again. Well, he traveled around the world, taught this in Australia, Europe and so forth. And he had a young student who now heads this group called Counterstrain. His name is Brian. He's just a genius of a guy. And I got to tell you, the kind of quality of work they do now. They've learned to scan your head like you would, let's say your feet, organs in Chinese medicine and so forth, and the types of changes they can make in organ systems in your body are extraordinary. And I put several examples in the book. That would sound impossible, but the type of healing that it creates, amazing. And it is painless. This is not like some heavy duty body therapy where you're scraping the body or doing some of that nature. It's literally just knowing how these patterns can be released in the body. And I super highly recommend people to check it out.

Yeah, it's crazy. We're still discovering forms of therapy that work like this. I mean, my friend Ben Patrick, the knees over toes guy, he's fixing people's knees right and left, doing all these new forms of physical therapy that are super duper. Stand on the slant board and do a squat and it's nuts. People just don't know, right? You got to know. You got to have a roadmap. You got to know which moves to do. And once you do, it's amazing how much you can do without the stem cells and the injections and some of the more fancy protocols. You don't necessarily have to start with bio splicing.

Exactly. That's my whole point. I divided the book. We divided in five parts. The first part orients you to longevity. What's happening, how the body ages, how to shift it stem cells. The second part is this hero's journey of five of these tools, like bio splice, like, you know, the incisionless brain surgery for Parkinson's. Like somebody goes in and literally in 15 minutes, maybe an hour to set it up, five, 10 minutes to do the treatment, and they walk out like without the problem. It's mind boggling. You know, a person who had a 50 mile bike ride and they were taking 15 medications, couldn't walk across the road. So that's a chapter. Car T cells are a chapter. So you learn the hero's journey, but you also learn what the tools are. Then the third section is all the things you can do with sleep, with your body, with your emotions, with your exercise. What are the best cutting edge tools? Then the fourth section are the big six killers, right? Heart disease, stroke, cancer, what to do, what's the leading components? And the last part is, I think, the most important part. You do everything right with your body, but if you don't have your mind and emotions straight, you make yourself sick and feel terrible. Right? So people can pick and choose the things that they really want. But also you look at it as like a guidebook for the rest. You know, the next few years, you got somebody in your family that's got a problem Boom. You can go to that section and know the best of the best that's available today.

Yeah, yeah. And guys, I know we're running a little bit long in the tooth, but there's a couple other things I wanted to ask because we're going back to the fancy stuff. There's two different life extension strategies that might seem a little out there, but talking about some of this sexy stuff is interesting as well. So as a life extension strategy, have either you guys done anything like the, the, the young blood transfer or the therapeutic plasma exchange or, or the, this, this kind of more fringe protocol of basically replacing your plasma, replacing your blood.

So the, the therapeutic plasma exchange is something I'm looking into doing. And we're, we're developing, you know, we both are, and we're developing an investigational new drug application. One of the things we're doing with Fountain Life for our members who are, want to, you know, have the edgier programs, instead of running off outside the US To Mexico or Costa Rica or Panama to do it, we're working with the FDA to apply for what's called an ind, an investigation drug, and then be able to do it under a protocol where you can be contributing to science at the same time that you get it. And there are, besides the total plasma exchange, there are things like rapamycin and senolytic medicines like quercetin, dastinib, and so these are the sorts of things where there's a lot of hope, there's a lot of evidence, but the science isn't really buttoned up yet for it to go to the FDA for any kind of approval. The young blood experiments, the parabiosis experiments, no. But both Tony and I are investors in a company that identified. This is out of Harvard, Harvard's Amy Wager's lab. When you can connect the old circulatory system of an old mouse with a new mouse, in this parabiosis, the old mouse gets younger and the young mouse gets older. And when they looked at why, what they did was they found one particular growth factor called GDF11 that is changing over time. It goes down over time in the circulatory system as you age. And so there's a whole program right now to develop GDF 11.

Okay, interesting. Now, related to that, I know that one common thing that a lot of regenerative medicine docs are doing now is they're not replacing the blood, they're filtering the blood. Right. You pull it out of one arm, you pass it typically through like, ozone, uv, et cetera. Then Pass it back into the body. I've done that.

I have as well.

Ozone plasmapheresis and I've also done the 10 pass ozone. I think that's a pretty reasonable like halfway solution. I mean, I personally feel like it's an oil filter change for the body.

I've done it as well. And also, you know, there's some things we didn't put in the book just because they don't have enough proof yet. But there's also V cells which you may have heard of. Oh yeah, yeah. So they're, you know, they're circulating your body and they, they, you know, there's nothing, they've not changed. They're like in suspended animation and they take them out, they treat them and put them back in. And I've had that experience as well. And you know, and they do studies, you know, using, you know, the, the, what do you call it? Clock, the you know, methylation clock. And supposedly again, I haven't seen enough evidence, but I've done it myself is every time you treat it, you supposedly take three years off of your, you know, biological age.

Yeah.

And so I did it and I.

Got the spectra cell telomere analysis afterwards, which, which is a, it's not as good as the methylation class, but it's good for, good for a telomere analysis. I had a doctor Holland and Chen do that a few years ago in New York City and saw a significant decrease in the rate of telomere shortening from that V cell injection. It was an iv. Yeah, it's fascinating. I'm actually going to go down to Park City, Utah in March and see Harry Adelson who does the full body stem cell makeover thing. And I think he does V cells as part of that as well. And then one other, one other kind of sexy thing I wanted to ask you guys about because this one I was scratching my head on when I read about it in the book. I thought, I don't know about this, but, but these remote controlled microbots, smaller than a grain of rice, that can travel through the body to deliver drugs. Well, I mean, you know, a lot of, a lot of the, you know, the, the mark of the beast, people taking over our bodies, folks, I'm sure are also raising an eyebrow at that. Would either of you guys actually inject nanobots into your body?

So this is a technology out of Israel that's been developed and it's in testing right now. And you can introduce these, these microbots. They're not nanobots. They are small in the Grain of rice. But you inject them into the spinal cord, into the spinal fluid, and then you steer them magnetically up into the base of the brain. And the challenge with almost all brain surgery today, or almost all cancer today, it's a very gross technique, right? You're poisoning the entire body with a chemotherapy, or you're opening up and you're lopping out a piece of the brain. What these microbots are intended to do is be very precise, be able to enter through the ventricles of the brain and be able to avoid any kind of neural damage. But when they get to the point, the target that you want, they can release a toxin or they can release certain antibodies. They have crossed the blood brain barrier there, and then you reverse the path and you extract it in the same part of the spinal canal that it went in. And so I think this is very much where we're going. Ray Kurzweil, who wrote our introduction, my co founder at Singularity University, really talks about the future of nanobots and how nanobots are going to be one of the most critical parts of really completely rejuvenating the body, not by turning back the epigenetic clock, but eventually by being able to stitch together back the structures of the cells on a nanotechnology scale.

The answer to your question, Ben, is I'm not about to do that shit.

I know. I read. Well, what was the book I read back in the day with Hugh Howey's book Silo, where the entire world's population live underground in silos because the, because the military decided to release some nanobots. But I do think in terms of targeted delivery and small molecule therapeutics with, with great precision. It shows a lot of promise. I'm not gonna be the first person.

It's where things are going. I don't know if I'd signed up yet for that. But you bring out, you mentioned the military. I want to mention one other thing that people should know about. You know, one of the biggest challenges is 22 veterans kill themselves in the United States every day. And, you know, I've developed the skills obviously, to help them. I had a gentleman that, you know, had 34 missions lost. I think 42 of his men, you know, so severe PTSD came to one of my events. Dark glasses, because the light can fire him off, you know, you know, night sweats at night, you know, sound can trigger anything, can trigger him. So, you know, it took me about two hours to rewire him, take off the glasses, do the whole nine yards, and I brought him on cnn because I wanted people to see what's going on. And the producer started to cry when she saw him because she saw the video of him before and then what he was like, you know, four months later and couldn't believe it. But I could work 20 hours a day and not reach all 22 of these people. So I kept looking for a scalable solution. And the army has done a study for three years on this injection that takes away anxiety or PTSD. And I funded it for 100 veterans. And it's mind boggling. If you read the letters, it'd blow your mind. It's two injections and it basically interrupts the sympathetic system that's turned on that makes somebody go into ptsd, out of control, constantly adrenalized, reacting. So the first guy ever funded, for example, you know, I don't know these men, they just. And women both, but they write me letters afterwards because, you know, I provided it for them. And you know, the first guy, I'll never forget, he said, listen, I was on tour in Afghanistan, on tour in Iraq. I came home, I didn't know what to do. Everything makes me react. The whole world is either black and white or I'm enraged. I can't look at my children, I can't hug my wife. He said, you know, there's just no color to life. And he said, I attempted suicide twice. And he said, and then they told me about this scholarship and I thought, all right, I'll give it a shot. He said, Mr. Robbins, I just have to tell you, he said within 30 minutes after the shot, he said, life had color again. He said, I felt like I could breathe again. He said, I went home and hugged my children and wife for the first time since I've been home. And by the way, that was three years ago, the first time I funded this. Now he's gotten, he wrote me a letter again about three months ago. He's helped get about a dozen other guys into the program and seen these transformations. So people need to know that they have extreme anxiety. And by the way, some surfers that have had, you know, professional surfer, big wave surfers who can't get back on the, they can go do this injection like twice. It's part, you know, a week apart and it completely resets the sympathetic system. So I just want people to know on the psychological and emotional side, there are breakthroughs and then one more depression.

And by the way, before you get into, into depression, I should note that that, that idea, you know, a lot of doctors, they call it Stellate ganglion nerve block injection. You know, it's acting on the vagus nerve. You know, the same thing as when you do like EMDR therapy or, you know, eye movement desensitization, retraining or vagal nerve toning, chanting, singing, humming, et cetera. This is like kind of like top of the totem pole, you know, even over and above these, these so called vagal nerve stimulators. So if anybody's wondering, you know, if you feel good after you meditate or after you do a sauna or a cold plunge for your head, all of that's triggering vagus nerve. What this injection does is it basically takes that and just jumps straight to the chase and essentially reboot the whole computer.

It is extraordinary in its impact. And then one more is like right now, we just had more people die of overdoses last year than any time in the history of the United States. People in cooped up depression's gone through the roof. You know, suicidal thoughts are obviously gone crazy. And so if you look at traditional therapy, the meta studies, a group from Stanford approached me from their genetics lab, number one in the world. And they said, look, Tony, this is what we found. You know, the meta Studies show that 40% of people get better. 60% do not. After a year of therapy with drugs and therapy, drugs and therapy. And they said, you know, of the 40% that get better, they get on average better. 50%, meaning they're 50% less depressed. Now, some people actually get cured, but, you know, a lot of people don't. And they said, you know, I was curious, what was the greatest breakthrough? So we're in this discussion. They said, well, the greatest breakthrough happened about a year and a half ago. Johns Hopkins did a study where they used psilocybin, basically magic mushrooms, for a month with therapy, cognitive therapy. And it's the greatest breakthrough that they've ever seen in the history of depression. And the study shows that 30 days later, 53% of the people had no symptoms of depression. There's nothing like it ever in history. Well, the problem is psilocybin is not legal, so they're still working on that. But they came to me because they said, you know, we've had a variety of people that we know who've made it to your programs, some of which we knew were clinically depressed. They aren't anymore. But, you know, you know, there's no scientific study to show this. Would you be interested in showing what that could be? If we designed the study and we'd like to copy the same Exact style of study. But you don't have to do drugs. You don't do, you know, 30 days of drugs. Obviously you don't do the 30 days of therapy, but your Date with Destiny seminar, this seminar where people change their beliefs and value systems consciously and cognitively so their perception and meaning of life changes. Basically. It's very powerful. And I've been doing it, you know, I've done like 88 of them over 35 years. And so I said, well, I got plenty of people you can investigate. They said, well, we'd love to just start with a fresh group. So they took clinically depressed people and about 19% were having suicidal thoughts ideation, and they put them in two different groups. The Stanford professors said, well, this Tony Robbins guy is just a bunch of positive thinking. So they said, well, what should we do with the control group? They said, well, use positive psychology, do positive journaling. It's been proven psychologically to make a difference, but not a huge difference in depression. Well, 30 days later, first few days or week, it starts to have an impact. Then it gets old and not much impact. The people that went to the six day program with myself, the results were so intense that Dr. Gantz, the head of the study, sent it out to be reviewed, blind tested by another group and then a second group because they just wanted to make sure this was absolutely real. 100% of the people were depression free. 30 days later, no drugs, no month worth of therapy, just people making the changes in themselves. So there's a new study. The study, one study showed they did was on my seminar, my weekend seminar, showing 70% reduction in negative emotions, 53 in positive emotions. It goes through much more detail than that. But then they followed up 11 months later during the middle of the COVID piece, same numbers, without another interaction for me, because they made these shifts in their biochemistry. So they did a study on how biochemically people change in the way that I do what I do teach. And so now there's a new study coming out. It'll be out, I believe, in three weeks at the Journal of Psychiatry that shows the results that they now are publishing. But I want people to know there are real possibilities beyond drugs that you can make happen. And you don't have to settle for this. You can learn to take control of your thoughts because in the end, if you take control of your health, but you don't take control of your mind and your emotions, you're going to have a rough ride in this life. Ultimately, the quality of your life is where you Live emotionally. People have emotional habits. And some people, no matter what you do, you know, they got a billion dollars, but they're angry and frustrated. Well, then your life's angry and frustrated. Some people, you know, are in a place where they absolutely, you know, they're the most beautiful family, but they're worried all the time or their life is worried. So there are real answers, including on the emotional and psychological side, not just the biochemical side or muscle side.

Yeah, well. Well, you know, the only thing better than that, Tony, the only thing better than that is going to one of your seminars on shrooms, which is the next study. So anyways, guys, I know Peter's got to go soon and we're getting a little longer too. But I'll tell you what, for the audience, all the show notes, everything we've talked about, a link to the book, a link to all the fantastic studies, everything Tony and Peter are up to, you can find@bengreenfieldfitness.com LifeCourse that's also the name of the book. Bengreenfieldfitness.com Lifecourse get this book. Read it. Maybe look up a Fountain Life center if you want to get into some of the advanced testing. I'm certainly going to look into that. And these guys are on the cutting edge. If you think that you know everything you need to know about regenerative medicine, you don't. This book goes deep, so check it out. Peter, Tony, thanks so much for coming on the show, guys.

Ben, amazing job. Thank you.

Really appreciate it. Ben, thank you.

Catch you on the flip side.

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