Unleashing The Phenomenon Of Using Sound & Music For Performance, Recovery, Healing & More.

Hey, what's up? It's Ben Greenfield. Today's podcast is not our usual Wednesday Q and A podcast. Instead, it is a podcast about one of my favorite little pet topics, how music, sound, and frequencies affect the human body and brain. You're gonna dig this one. In this episode of the Ben Greenfield.

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Hey, folks, it's Ben Greenfield, and I've got a quick question for you. When was the last time you listened to music or a podcast or white noise or binaural beats or any other form of audio? And I'm curious if you ever gave thought, any thought at all, to the frequency of the actual wavelengths of sound in that audio? Because until recently, I really didn't think too much about the actual frequency or the vibration of sound or anything like that. I would just focus on the content of the sound itself. And I didn't really have any clue that frequencies of sound, frequencies of music and things like the frequencies of the piano that my kids practice every day up on the balcony, or the guitar and the ukulele that I practice most days of the week can actually affect things like cognitive function and heart health and liver and kidneys and digestion and libido and mood and a whole lot of other stuff. So I was at a health summit a couple of months ago, and someone gave me this book called the Sound of Healing, and it was written by this guy named Michael Tyrell, the person who gave me that book, also gave me this handful of CDs that Michael recorded. And the CDs are called whole tone CDs. And on the CD cover, it's actually described as music that heals, repairs, and protects against disease. So I'm always skeptical when I see stuff like that, but I was curious, so I, I sat down. It was actually on the airplane ride home, and I read this entire Sound of Healing book. I dig music. I love audio. I grew up playing the violin. I come from a very musical family. You know, my sister is a jazz musician, and all my siblings play in bands. And I played in a rock band until about six years ago. So I was really drawn to some of the information in this book. And I also started listening to these, these CDs, these CDs called whole tone CDs while I was driving. And I convinced my massage therapist to put the massage table, like, right in the middle of two sets of speakers and like, blast my body with these CDs while I was getting a massage. And I started putting the music in my sauna. And every time I'd finish One of these CDs, and each of the different CDs is, is targeted for like, a specific body function, like stress or, you know, liver health or cardiovascular function, things like that. Every time I'd finish listening to One of the CDs, I had this feeling I don't usually get when I listen to music, like elation and satisfaction. And again, at the risk of sounding really woo woo, just like peace, basically. So I even downloaded a digital tuning app just off of the iTunes app store. And I retuned my guitar and I retuned my ukulele to actually be at the frequencies described in this book, the sound of healing. And it made a huge difference in the ability of a song I was playing to make me feel uplifted and make me feel more full of positive energy. So this stuff is super fascinating. And I wanted to get Michael, the guy who makes these CDs and the guy who wrote this book on a podcast to talk about how sound affects your body, how music affects your body, and how as he goes into, in his book, most of the music we listen to today is actually pretty messed up when it comes to the actual frequency that it's played at. So, Michael, welcome to the show.

It's an honor. Ben, I've been really excited. The good thing about you is that you're very organized. And so I've had a couple weeks to think about our time together. So thanks for having me on.

Yeah, and I'm super excited to have you on because I have a ton of questions that I want to ask you about what you wrote in the book. And by the way, for those of you listening, whenever I do a podcast like this, I don't just like to tell you a bunch of stuff that you could just go buy and read in Michael's book. I like to delve into some of the practical nitty gritty applications as well. So, Michael, I wanted to start here though I really don't know that much about your actual background in music. I mean, I know you've produced some really fascinating CDs and the music is amazing on your CDs. Everyone I play them for just loves them. But what is your background in music? You like an ex heavy metal rocker or an ex violinist or what's your background?

Well, it's pretty well versed actually. I started playing guitar as a primary instrument. But I was one of those bizarre humans that was born with their eyes open, which there's a very small percentage of humanity that's actually born with their eyes open. And so I'm one of the few that can actually say. I remember being born and I saw the operating room when I came into the world and the first thing that I heard were voices, but they were processed differently than we. Because with us with voices now there's understanding. At that point there is no understanding. And. And so from an early age I was mesmerized by frequencies, especially musical frequencies. And my mom said that by the time I was 1 years old that I could, I could say all of the names of the instruments on the Lawrence Welk show. And so it was kind of a no brainer that I'd be a musician. But I started playing guitar at age 7 and actually did quite well at it. And by the time I was in high school, I was already making money playing bands and I was taking classical guitar lessons from a disciple of Andrei Segovia, who is one of the greatest flamenco classical guitar players that ever lived.

No, I need to interrupt you for just a second because my kids seem interested when I play guitar, but a guitar is a pretty freaking huge instrument for a seven year old. How did you play guitar when you were seven?

Well, the good news is that back in the day and they still have them available, they make three quarter size instruments, the Suzuki kids, even with violins, violas, there's three quarter size instruments. My first guitar was a very small guitar. It was a Three quarter size instrument. And so I got around on it pretty good.

Okay, gotcha. My kids, by the way, just a complete segue. At the risk of losing all our listeners right off the bat, they're actually, they're upstairs right now building ukuleles. They have their own build your own ukulele kit. They're staining the wood and building their own ukulele. So we're going to have three ukuleles around the house to annoy mom even more anyways, though. So you went from playing the guitar at age 7 and then you said you got into flamenco music.

I did. Like I said, I've always wanted to learn many genres of music. And so I actually studied five or six styles of music. And one I was fascinated with was flamenco or Spanish guitar. So at the same time I was playing electric, I was also learning flamenco guitar.

Okay, got it. And so were you a professional musician at that point?

I was a professional musician, like out of high school, actually. And during high school, I used to play in bands that were well known bands in town. And even this guy named Bertie Higgins, it did this song called Key Largo and. And they had to sneak me in to play in bars because I wasn't old enough to get in. So I'd have to go around the back of the bar and they'd bring me in the back door and then I'd come out on stage. Nice, nice.

So you're playing music and it sounds like a lot of musicians. You started young and you were in a band and you were immersed in music. When did you first begin to delve into frequencies? Or when did you first begin to realize that perhaps the way that we currently experience music in our day and age might not be ideal, specifically when it comes to things like our physiology and our biology and our health?

Well, that's kind of the pivotal question, Ben. Actually, it was just one of those things. Like sometimes, you know, you'll ask yourself a question and the question you ask yourself demands an answer. And one day I was just musing, I was thinking about, you know, experiences when you go into music store and you buy your guitar and then they want you to buy a chord book and then they want to sell you a tuner. And one day it just hit me. Why are these tuners calibrated to this particular frequency range? Why is the note a equivalent to 440Hz per second or vibrations per second? To make it simpler, that question kind of opened the door for an unbelievable deep rabbit hole as both of us Call it of discovery, when I realized on one of my first international dates, Ben, that, you know, I was tuned to our tuner, you know, our supposedly standard tuning tuner, and I went to play with the band in Columbia, and guess what? They were in tune with their tuner too. And neither one of us were in tune with each other. And that was the beginning of my understanding that there was no true standard tuning. There was an attempt, however, to convert the entire world globally to one particular tuning, which again was what United States and Canada adheres to, which is A. The Note A equals 440 Hz, or vibrations per second.

Okay, so when you say that the US And Canada, when we take a musical instrument and we play the note A on that musical instrument, and the current status quo is to have that Note A at 440Hz, what does that mean? Like, from a physics standpoint, what does this 440Hz refer to?

Okay, that's simple on the guitar, you know, to make this very simple, the second, you know, there's the fat strings and the skinny strings, the fifth fat string is the A note, as we call it, as our guitars are tuned in fifths. That note A means in order for it to sound that note in A, in the key of, it's got to vibrate 440 times a second, BEN and so with that being said, if that would be the calibration, then that note would only be a true A if the tuner that it was checking was calibrated at 440Hz. So if it was any other, if there was more vibrations, less vibrations, of course it would change that number. And so that's what we're really, what we're saying is that the equivalent of the note A in this supposed standard tuning of the US and Canada is equivalent to 440 vibrations per second.

How did that become the standardized chosen vibration frequency?

I had a feeling you'd ask that question. It's really interesting that during wartime, a particular man named Joseph Goebbels found that he could disassociate himself from the war and propaganda and being one of Hitler's, him and Mengele.

So when you're saying war, you're referring to World War II.

That is correct. And with that being said, all of a sudden, Joseph Goebbels decides that it's important to globalize a standard tuning for every nation, knowing that, for example, Leningrad's 444, most of Europe's 432 hertz, you know, all around, every basic country has its own tuning center, if you will. And he was trying to globalize this and went to great lengths to do it during wartime. And, you know, that hit me like, I'm like, there's something here that's missing. And as I delved into the research, I found out later on that A equals 440 was first known as the German radio beat, and it was used for propaganda and mind control because it actually works negatively towards the circadian rhythm of the human body, thus creating some semblance of chaos, which.

Slow down there for just a second because you're getting a lot of people all of a sudden whose alarm bells are going to go off with conspiracy theorists labels. So back that up a second and explain to me what you just said. I've heard, of course, that fluoride in water, for example, is one way that someone's resistance to authority can be tweaked, and that it may make us all more susceptible to governmental influences. Whether or not there's research behind that, man, I don't think we need to get into that right now. Although, for those of you listening in, I do have a fascinating podcast on fluoride. I'll link to it in the show Notes for this one. However, when you talk about frequencies and their ability to allow us to be controlled, can you get into a little bit more detail on that?

Well, absolutely. I mean, everything has vibration, everything has frequency, everything has a resonant frequency. I mean, in the room that you're podcasting, and the room I'm podcasting is my office. If I was to use a frequency generator right now and I had the proper amplitude, I could make the walls of this room shake once I determine what that resonant frequency is. In the same way, the human body on a cellular level operates much in the same way. If you introduce a certain frequency to the body, it will accept it or reject it. It will either do for the body or something negative for the body. And in the case of the German radio beater, 440 hertz, as I'm talking about, they would broadcast their propagandist Nazi materials on this particular frequency range, knowing that it had a negative effect or a chaotic effect on the human body. So it's not really this one. I understand what you're saying about conspiracy theory, and I'm, you know, good friends with Dr. Horowitz. But however, with that being said, this is actually just straight up good old science. This guy knew that if he could get everyone to use this particular tuning center and to calibrate all of their tuning instruments with that, that they would be introducing a level of chaos into the entire world.

What does that mean, chaos? Like when you say, for example, that a frequency could induce chaos, like in the human body, how is that chaos manifesting itself? Is this something we could look at in terms of chaos in a red blood cell or in a liver or.

Something like that to totally demystify, let's take the word disease and let's hyphenate it. Dis ease. My body is at dis ease. It's not at ease with itself. You mentioned peace earlier. A chaotic state is anytime when something's in flux, it doesn't really matter what it is. And so with the human body, if you put yourself into a place, for example, some people like myself, are very susceptible to magnetic waves or being near power lines or a lot of bundles of cable. Other people, they could live in a house that was right beneath a power plant. It would never bother them. So it's how it affects us on a physiological basis. If you have the wrong electrical frequencies permeating your home, EMFs or wherever you are, you're not going to sleep well. It's going to cause issues with your circadian rhythm, maybe even your pineal gland. On a cellular level, it's a negative thing. So that's where I was going with that, is it's not like in. It's good science. If you could do that, and you're really twisted enough individual that that's your mission statement, that you want to screw up the world, hey, that's a great way to start. My mission is exactly the opposite. I want everybody to experience what you experience every day of their life. And I'm working 247 to start in the United States and hopefully later on another direction, to bring frequencies into the musical world that actually bring harmony and peace and help people sleep better.

Okay, that makes sense. When you talk about frequencies. And you mentioned this Dr. Horowitz guy I know he's done studies on, I think it's 520something hertz.

528, yeah.

And he's looked at the fact that I believe it's water. When it is vibrating at that specific frequency, it actually flows through, in and out of cellular membranes more efficiently. I think Dr. Gerald Pollack at University of Washington has done some similar research in terms of the ability of a cell to either absorb or not absorb water, depending on the frequency at which that water is vibrating. And I know also, for example, I use a biomat, and it has amethyst crystals and tourmaline crystals in it. And these also vibrate at specific frequencies that seem to affect organ function. And I know that people listen to this podcast, are aware that the human body is a battery. It operates at a specific ideal electrochemical gradient when it comes to, you know, the way that sodium potassium pumps work, you know, in terms of getting energy in and out of cells. And that particular battery function is dependent upon the. The frequencies that we're surrounded by. Right, so. So you talked about wi fi signals, Michael, and obviously you talk a lot about music, but a big part of it comes down to the fact that that cell membranes respond to vibrations, Right?

Absolutely. And that's been one of the funnest things as far as with whole tones, is people say, well, how loud do I have to have my music? Do I need to wear headphones? And the beauty of frequencies is, no, no, and no. If you want to enjoy it with headphones on, sonically, you're going to enjoy it maybe a little bit better. There's particular applications, PTSD, TBIs, for example, where it may improve the situation with headphones. But for the most part, as long as you're immersed in some degree, even if it's just at a barely audible level, your body responds huge to these particular frequencies.

Interesting. Okay, so we know that sound frequencies affect the human body. We know that they affect things like water, for example. Now, when it comes to musical instruments and music and retuning musical instruments, tell me about what you found. When it comes to 440Hz, for example, like you mentioned that we have in the US And Canada as our tuning for the note A, what did you find when you began to realize that that might not be the ideal frequency?

Great question. I mean, it initially started like I had mentioned before, after the initial query of, why are these tuners calibrated this way? And the other side of it is, my whole life as a musician, I always knew that there was so much right with music, but there was something wrong with music. It's really difficult for me sometimes when you look at these things to try to pinpoint the exact moment. But it was when I questioned the tuner, and then after that, I suddenly realized, well, wait a minute. If music is more than just entertainment, if it's actually a modality for healing the body, then I need to find out what frequency would work along with the electricity of the human body. As you mentioned before, is tourmaline's a huge conductor. I need to find out what would be a conductor that would have a positive effect on the body. And so through a lot, I mean, we don't even have the time on this broadcast to go through all of it. But through a wonderful journey and a myriad of different things, I ended up in Israel and met a man that basically had told me that he spent his entire life working on the Psalms of David, King David in the Bible. And at the end of this incredible day, I walked away with transcripts and information that was boggling my mind about the possibilities of why music was not doing what I thought music would do. And after making these appropriate adjustments, I found that sonically, and here's another argument, by the way, sonically, 444Hz is probably the greatest frequency or key that you could play over the human body because it activates every single organ, works on your DNA. Corroborated work by Leonard Horowitz. I was surprised I published it in the book. I was shocked when I read Leonard's work before we became friends. And all of a sudden, out of the blue, he said, and I'm positive that 444Hz is a rested, positive frequency that will help align the human body. And I was like, holy smokes. Because, I mean, basically there's a million different frequencies. But when you're In A equals 444 Hz, an amazing thing happens underneath. Your fingers unlocks all these other frequencies. As you mentioned, 528 becomes Middle C on the piano. Now you're working in A, in a range where every single thing you're playing, even if you're playing the same songs you used to play, now they're in a virtual new key, only $0.04 higher, but they make a huge change in the human body.

It's a very, very slight adjustment. Like when I got that digital tuner and I actually emailed you to make sure that I did it correctly. I made that slight adjustment to ensure that, for example, the A on my guitar was at 4:44. It really did change the way that I felt when I played the music. And it's really, really crazy. Again, it sounds woo woo and unscientific or whatever, but it actually made a big difference. Now, you talked about 444Hz. There's a pretty strong religious background behind that, right? Because you talked to this guy about dav, for example, for those of you not familiar with the Bible, David was considered to be, correct me if I'm wrong, Michael, but he was one of the greatest musicians in the Bible, right?

The absolute greatest, the master musician.

And how do we know that he, for Example was playing music at that particular frequency.

Well, here's the best part of it. It's like with anything else. That's where we get a little weird all around, Even in the political places that some of us aren't there. And so we can't say definitively that that was what he did. But after using, you know, 18 years of research and adding and subtracting and working a lot, suddenly I realized what he was working. I mean, obviously he played a kinor, which is what some people call a heart, but it's a 10 string instrument. And I always knew that the bottom note, you know, the tonic, would have been a. So it was a matter of subtraction. And then after several years of working with it, all of a sudden I thought, man, could it really be so simple that. That it's just. Would 4 sense make that much difference? So when I made the adjustment, I don't think I've ever told anybody this, Ben. But the first thing I noticed immediately was I'm thinking it's higher. And so I'll have to sing higher if I sing. So I started singing. I never went hoarse. I could sing for three hours, four hours. And the other part that was amazing is as a musician, I'm real persnickety. And so I'd always be tuning my guitar. When I did the whole tones recording in 444, I think I tuned my main guitar twice in seven days. Usually I tune twice in a song. So it was almost like that frequency was. My guitar was saying, aha, thank you. And my voice was saying thank you because that's where I'm supposed to be. That's the tessatura. That's where I'm supposed to sing.

Now, with regards to this 444hz. I know it makes the body feel pretty good because like I mentioned, and I don't remember if I told you this prior to us getting on a recording today, but I had my massage therapist, Tracy, come to my house the other night, and I had her put the massage table in between the two biggest speakers in my house. And I put on one of the CDs. So I think you. How many CDs are in the CD kit that you have? Seven.

Seven.

Okay. Yeah. So you got seven CDs. One of them is just all that, what you call the key of David, right? Like 444 hertz. And I had her just blast this. So it was like an hour long massage. We just put it on repeat, right? Cause the CD's 22 minutes long. So we just played it three times through. I felt amazing afterwards. And she did too, like she was even getting a massage. But she's like, I cannot believe how good my body feels after just being blasted by this music for an hour. And so I know that, that that particular frequency seems to work, but there's a whole bunch of others. Like you've got, you know, 528 and frequencies up in the 800s. Can you kind of walk us through and explain how different frequencies affect different organ functions? Because when I look at this CD kit that you have, it says, you know, some of it's good for, like, the liver, some of it's good for stress, some of it's good for detoxification. Can you walk me through how these different frequencies work and why you chose the frequencies that you did?

Absolutely. Ben. Well, first and foremost, you have to remember, like I said before, everything has an atomic weight or everything has the ability to be vibrated, for example. And I'll even tell you what I did as far as how, why this has been so successful. And it works. Let's just say that we both, you know, we found the way to be able to survive after someone removed both of our hearts. And we're looking at our hearts and saying, wow, the atomic weight of Ben's heart and Michael's heart's a little bit different. But overall, we're within a certain bandwidth to where if there is an excitement or a frequency that's added, suddenly that heart will begin to vibrate once you find its atomic weight. And so when I found the baseline of that, and it was through mostly the work of a man named Royal. Rife. Rife. There was a lot of research out there. And also I happen to be in a gaggle of just amazing scientific geeks that are always helping me work through these things. And I just realized that every part of the body has a resonant frequency. And like, let's. We're talking the human heart. So there's a bandwidth to where we're all virtually close to having the same, but no two hearts weigh exactly the same. So the way I was able to find a baseline was once I found that frequency that is inherent to vibrating the heart, for example, I would add a mild, super mild oscillation bend. So an oscillation just for your listeners is just when you. It's like when you have a total tone, like, ah. Or all of a sudden you go, ah, right. Add that little bit of vibrato, if you will, or vibration to that frequency. Well, what that does if you look at an oscilloscope is it spreads out the field just a little bit. So if you do that with a frequency, you find a frequency that is absolutely favorable for a particular organ at a mild oscillation. Now you've got 90% of the people listening are going to be affected by it. And so with that being said, each of the seven frequencies operates in a different part of the human body. And it also has a lot of an emotional connections. If we had time, I could read you like, well that we have thousands of customer testimonies now, but just amazing things that happen with certain parts of the body, certain emotions depending on which of the frequencies that you're listening to. And even the most amazing is how it affects animals. Like anxiety with animals, dogs and cats, separation anxiety, sleep, really, you know. Yeah, it's unbelievable. So in essence, anything that has breath is affected plants. I mean, Jordan Rubin, a great friend of mine, you know, get real nutrition. You know, before that, you know, he had one of the largest supplement companies in the world.

Yeah, he's Garden of life, right?

Yeah, he sold it, but he was, yeah, I mean he's just like the arch typical when it comes to supplement. He's like the top. Anyway, long story short, when he found out about what I was doing, he said, I want the first copy of Chroma so I can use it to in my mycobacterium. I want to grow mushrooms and stuff inside. So he puts up these plasma screens and I send him a couple packages of Chroma. Chroma for your listeners is the DVD and the Blu Ray set that is actually not only these frequencies in the audio, but the harmonics of light that coincide with them. And he began playing.

So you play this on like a tv?

Absolutely.

Interesting. Okay, I have it. The same guy that gave me these whole tone CDs, he gave me that Chrome. I didn't know what it was. I don't even have taken out of his shrink wrap yet. So you would play this on a TV and you could, for example, have that playing in a room where you have plants and things like that.

And you, I mean you're going to be bathed in photons and audio because remember, once we exhaust the audio frequency realm, we've just begun the frequencies of light. And so if you can combine those two modalities of light and sound, you know, photons and audio, imagine what you're sitting in in your room when you're getting therapy. It's actually chroma therapy. And so he thought, what do you do.

Sorry to interrupt. What do you do? You sit there and you look at the TV monitor while the sound plays. Or can you be anywhere in the room?

You can be anywhere in the room. You can be doing stuff. It doesn't matter. It's light. It's just like when you're outside and you can play football or you can lay down and get a suntan. Either way, you're getting sun.

Okay. And you don't have to be looking at the sun. You can just basically be exposed to the actual. The photoreceptors on your skin, for example, can be exposed to that same light wave right on.

You don't have to stare at it. That's what makes it so great. And that's why people that like, I don't have 22 minutes and 22 seconds to sit here and listen to a song. Well, don't move around. Do your housework. As long as it's audible, you're getting it. So it's what's so cool. But before I forget. So I sent him out these. I sent him out the chroma packages, and within a couple of weeks, he's sending me pictures of how it's changing the plant root size, bioavailability of his plants that he's growing for his new company, which is Get Real Nutrition. It's handmade nutrition. And we've become very close friends. And he uses chroma for every single thing. Every product that goes out now has been what he calls. How does he say it? Harmonically. Harmonically. Energized by whole tones. So everyone that receives Jordan Rubin's supplements knows that it's been bathed with chromotherapy before it ever gets into. In their body.

Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean, we. We know, for example, that even when you're walking on rocks and dirt outside, you get exposed to the Schumann resonance frequency that. That the earth emits. Right. It's 7. It's a very, very low hertz. It's 7.38 hertz, something like that. But they actually make crystals. I used to actually, I caught a lot of flack for this, actually, by. By people who thought that I was completely. Not to overuse the term yet again, but woo, woo. By going down this path. But I used to have bracelets, and they sold out. And then I no longer was able to work with the guy who was manufacturing these crystals that we developed, but we were just blasting these things with that particular frequency, that 7.38 Hz, so that when you're in an airplane or on a skyscraper, somewhere like that. You could actually wear this crystal on your wrist or around a necklace that would vibrate with that specific frequency. So you're still getting a lot of. A lot of the benefits you'd get, say if you were grounding or earthing or camping or something like that. And people responded to these frequencies. They actually do have an effect on the body. So it's fascinating. And so the idea here to return to my original question is that specific organ groups respond to specific frequencies.

So I need to go ahead and answer that question. I'm sorry, it's. I'm kind of like a water fountain sometimes. And anyway, so here's the deal. I can make this really simple. Too simple on your. On your audio set at home, treble mid bass. Let's start there. The lower the frequency, the more bass, in other words, or bottom that it possesses. In other words, let's just say that you're driving down the road and a guy pulls next to you in his hooptie and he's got his subs so loud that you can't. It's rattling your brain inside your cranium, right? That only elicits the. The physiology of the body, the physical, the earth, the flesh, in other words. So the base is a slow, lumbering frequency. If you were to look at it, an oscilloscope, it's a slow, big, wide open sine wave. And now it's really funny, that part like 396, for example, in the whole tones package, or the open door as it's called. It's an opening frequency. You don't start an opening frequency in a high range frequency. It doesn't work. You have to start at your. Exactly what you said at the grounding point of where you're at. And 396 opens people up. And the most exciting thing about this frequency for me is people that have. They deal with shame and guilt, Ben, and they don't feel worthy to ever have anything good happen to them. Suddenly, this frequency, when they sit and listen to this, suddenly they realize that not only is healing within their grasp, but they're worthy of it. So there's this grounding that comes at the very beginning. And as you move up through the frequency realm, you move up through the body, you move up through the audio realm. So for example, something super low only moves your body, but it doesn't do much for your emotions, you know. But when you get up in the mid frequencies, the five 28s and up, like yo yo ma, on the cello, you guy can sit down on a stool and play three notes and you're crying like a baby. Because it's working in that mid range, which is the soul realm or thought, will and emotions. It elicits feeling like if you ever hear like back in the day, B.B. king could just play one note on his guitar and people start crying. It's because that frequency range really does a number on the soul. But as you know, the higher you get in the frequency, you begin to move past the soul realm and into the spiritual realm. So there's high frequencies that basically elicit that type of an effect as far as opening you up to.

Yeah, more. More spiritual effect. And I have your. I have the cd. You have one. Remind me what the one is called? That's at the very, very highest frequency, like up in the 800s.

It's 852 hertz.

Yeah. What's that one called?

It's called the Majestic.

Yeah, I listen to that one when I do devotions and prayer in the morning because I have a few. I've had to actually get some CD players now that I have your CDs because I didn't even have CD players. So now I'm playing these in CDs. But it actually enhances my morning meditation, my morning devotional practice. Because that particular hertz frequency seems to cause more of almost like a spiritual awakening.

Absolutely. And people don't really understand how all of that works in my life, it seems almost is that I'm trying to demystify it. So I like your terminology, but I don't want people to think that it's woo, woo. And one of the things that I tell them about frequency that makes them laugh is first of all, you could never have a phone call. You could never ever have a conversation. And best of all, if I would have met you 50 years ago, I mean, if that was possible, because you're not 50. And I said, hey, Ben, I gotta cut a rectangular hole in the Sheetrock of your kitchen. And I have this device, I'm gonna stick it in the wall, okay? And when I'm done, you're gonna be able to take any of your cold food and shove it in there, push one button, it's gonna heat up, but you can take it out with your hand, it won't burn your fingers. You say you're a nut, you're a weirdo, you're a wizard, you're a freak. Well, that's what we call the microwave oven. And it's an antiquated piece of kitchen equipment today. But at the time, you know, people look at stuff like that and they go, what type of chicanery is this? Well, nothing. It's just good technology. So in the very same way frequency has been around as long as there has been anything to be around. Frequency is a voice. It's a voice.

Yep. Yeah, there's this medical device. I believe it's out of Russia. I'm actually in the process of researching it right now. It's called a deta. And the way that it works is it actually generates some really low frequency electromagnetic fields, like anywhere from 0.1Hz to 100Hz. And you can set it at a specific frequency to affect a different organ. Right. Like the diaphragm, for example, is at 91.0 Hz, or the lungs are at 72 Hz, or the amygdala is at 20, 20.5 Hz. And if you know you have an issue with a specific organ, you can actually blast it with that particular frequency and you can generate a healing response or a vibrational frequency in that specific organ. So it's really fascinating how there's some health devices and I've even talked about pulsed electromagnetic field frequency before in the podcast. Have you heard of this before, Michael?

Well, remember, I'm also an inventor.

Okay.

So the machinery in my home is pretty shocking. But yes, I actually have a PEMF machine in my bedroom. And the machine that you're talking about, there's also a German machine out now. And there's an MLM company that I won't mention now that's also trying to facilitate a Japanese machine that does similar. But I think the Russian and the German machine are far superior. But yeah, as far as I try to stay on the cutting edge of anything that's frequency based and all the work that's being done, your listeners might be interested to know that there's a new stylus free turntable now that plays 12 inch records that has a laser for a needle. There's a man in Australia at the moment that is doing inoculations using frequency instead of a needle. There's a Canadian man and his wife right now that have cleaned copious amounts of polluted water by using 528 with a frequency generator and 20,000 watts of power. Amazing stuff going on out there.

Speaking of vinyl, I want to ask you about analog versus digital sound in a second, but one other thing I should mention is that for those of you out there who do things like listen to Binaural beats, which I know a lot of folks do now for sleep, for example, or use these sleep apps that play sound. Or for those of you that use. I've talked about the Earth Pulse and I've talked about the Delta Sleeper. Two different devices that can be used to affect, for example, a delta brainwave function while you sleep. If you use any of those type of things, you're already taking advantage of the way that frequencies affect the human body. It's just that Michael particularly excels in creating these type of frequencies into music. Michael. But when it comes to music, and you talk about this a little bit in your book, but I have some questions for you about this. Analog versus digital. First of all, can you talk about the difference between the two and why it could potentially be actually inferior to be listening to things like MP3s and potentially even CDs if you wanted to get all of the benefit out of.

A sound, I certainly can. And again, I think it's very important that a lot of people are very combative and polarized over certain issues. Like is 444 or 432 better, which we may get to. Analog versus digital. First, let me say that in the realm of sonics, both modalities are positive. There's not a negative. One is digital, one is analog. Obviously for certain reasons the analog is preferable and I'll tell you why. When you have an analog signal bend, basically it's an unretouched natural resonance of a particular note or frequency. A digital it captures the same note and same frequency. However, it converts it into binary or numbers. It converts it into numbers and then those numbers recreate those particular wave patterns. So it's basically a way of. It's a difference in translation. 1 For example, if you and I am old enough, but I remember the first time I listened to tchaikovsky on a 12 inch vinyl disc through all analog equipment in a Macintosh tube power amp. And it was an experience that was so enthralling and exhilarating that I wept listening to music. However, today we carry around ipod sized devices that fit in a shirt pocket that can carry 6,000 songs on it or whatever. And if you plug it into the earbud and you listen to it, it sounds really good until you realize that one of them is notes that have been converted into numbers versus actual frequency vibrations that are organic. You realize the difference where it gets funky is that people say okay, well I thought your music was analog. It is. Everything that's recorded on that product is an analog instrument. I use a proprietary method of recording to where even the digital signal gets washed through analog equipment, which does make a big difference. And that's why it's sweet. And the transients are full. And I go to painstaking quality Even with the CDs to make sure that they're actual WAV files instead of MP3s, however.

Okay, so back that up just a second. So when I'm listening to one of your cd, and this is something I was a little bit apprehensive about because I read in your book that analog trumps digital. But then the actual CDs that you have are technically digital, but you're creating those in such a way that you're maintaining some of the analog benefits.

There are some fantastic conversion. One of them is called sadi. It's a Sadi system. But there's also some fantastic real time things you can do in the studio while recording to make sure that you're not losing transients and frequency. So where it gets. And what I want to say, I'm so glad we're having this conversation. Where it gets interesting but still functional is when we get into the truncated frequencies where we talk about mp3 or streaming music or digital. Here's the thing, we used to call it zip. Remember? You know, it was like a zip file and then you'd have to open it up. Well, basically an MP3 is an ultra compressed file. So you're taking analog, you're converting it to numbers and then squeezing it. So if you look at it as far as size, it's a smaller postage stamp of that frequency. But what people miss in that, the positive side is that in today, the percentages of people that actually even own any analog equipment in their home is less than 1%. And so the only people that do are what we call audio files. And they've retained old, you know, record players, everything on pristine vinyl, which is the preferred way to go. However, when you're recording, people have no idea what happens in the recording studio. Back in the days of analog, we used 2 inch tape. Ben and I was a master of mastering and a master of editing. And you did it with a razor blade and 3M tape. And that's how it worked back then. And if you made a mistake, you got to do it all over again in the, in the, in the virtuosity of digital recording. Today, there isn't anything that you can't do. You never have to, you know, can you rewind that? There is no. Everything's virtual tracking. So as far as ease of recording and what can be done with recording? No question about it. There's elements of analog that. That a lot of people like myself, but a lot of great producers in New York, they're finding ways to start recording drums, analog, the human voice analog, certain things, analog again. And then the only downside of it is once you get it to that place of mastering, you're still running it through tubes, weiss mechanics, all kinds of stuff that adds warmth and roundness to it. The only thing you've really done is converted part of the signal digital for the sake of being able to play it back. And online, people say, okay, well, you offer wholetones digital. Why does it work? Well, because digital still works. One of the funniest testimonials that I have was from a lady that actually called me from Tampa, Florida. I won't give your name. She's a registered nurse. And she called me on the phone. I don't know how she got my number. And she said, I never believed that this crap could ever work. And I said, hi, I'm Michael. And she said, listen, I've had rheumatoid arthritis for 10 years. I'm a nurse at Tampa General. Somebody told me about your, you know, your wholetones.com, wholetonesmusic.com so I went on there and I listened to a sample one time, went to bed, woke up in the morning. I didn't feel any pain in my body for the first time. I thought it was a fluke. She goes, that was two months ago. My doctor, she said, told me that I have no more rheumatoid arthritis. I'm a huge fan. And she introduced me to the medical community. And doctors now find the validity in what I'm doing because of what's happening and because they're using. So many doctors are using music therapy today, it's shocking. They're finding even post surgery, post evasive surgery, invasive surgery, that it brings healing in a fraction of the time it used to take. And so it speeds up convalescence as well. So, anyway, I just said all that to say that if somebody listened to a sample on my website, I mean, that's like uber compressed. You know how quick you got to load those things to get your web right? And if people are getting healed listening to that, the question is, is analog better? Absolutely. It's richer. Are you going to. Is the average person going to hear a difference between those frequencies? Absolutely not. Absolutely not.

Okay, so you don't have to have a vinyl record turntable, per se. You just have to ensure that if you're using music that has been tuned to the specific frequency that has been produced using this kind of analog, I guess, analog retention type of equipment that you use when you create these CDs, is there a name for that system that you use if someone wanted to look at the COVID of a CD and see if it was recorded using that technique?

Well, in the mastering portion, in the information you can look for, Sadie S A D I E systems is one of the things. And the rest of the stuff that I use are all different types of audio washes. Like I use neve transformers, I use all tube stuff. My theory is if it doesn't glow, it's gotta go. Everything runs through tubes. And everything I can do to retain that sonic analog criteria, I do where it's at all possible.

Okay, I see that Sadie recording software actually has a website. And by the way, for those of you who are listening in, I'm taking notes on everything that Michael is talking about. And you can access the show notes for Today's episode at BenGreenfieldFitness.com tones that's BenGreenfieldFitness.com t o n E S Michael, I have a few other questions. First of all, the best way to use these CDs, like when I got them, I've just been experimenting, playing them in the car, playing them when I'm getting a massage, playing with my kids. But like there's seven of them and they're, they're each 22 minutes long. Is there any type of recommended system that you have for getting the most benefit out of them? Like, should I listen to one each day of the week? Should I just kind of mix and match as I see fits? I mean, what's the best way to use these?

Well, for the most part, Ben, people are the best judge on an individual basis, you know, which I think you know. Obviously I'm like you. I'm a huge advocate of people supplementing and taking care of their human bodies and not trusting other sources or government to take care of themselves. With that being said, there's one thing I tell everyone. If you're going to do this, you have to at least commit to the opening frequency. And then if you read the book, it goes into great detail about what, like you said, of each, what each one of those. What they can expect to see what part of their body will be affected by each of those frequencies. So what I tell people, if time is of the essence, always start with the first disc. 396, 396 hertz, the open door. And that prepares you for whatever else you choose. Let's say. Let's just use it. For example, let's say somebody's dealing with. Let's just. How about procrastination?

Let's have drank too much and I know my liver needs some help. Throw that. Not that anyone listening in ever drinks too much, but let's just use that as a fun example.

Well, which is a great one. And there's different times that certain things will. I'll give you a great example. Let's just say, okay, the way that my body processes is I have a hangover. Well, 417 works best for a hangover. Let's say that I drank too much and I have an upset stomach.741 works better for that. Let's say that I have mild case of cirrhosis of the liver. Now we're talking 528. So it really depends. But my main point is that the book gives a great overview of application. Here's a funny one. I did a wedding. I actually officiated a wedding in Texas. I got sick to my stomach about an hour before the wedding. And I'm thinking, oh, no, because it was a really. I mean, it felt like food poisoning. So I put on one frequency that's notorious for helping with the stomach, and it didn't. And so when I put on 7:41, within 15 minutes of the 22 minutes and 22 seconds, the stomach ache disappeared. Well, I found that one works better for something that is bad that you ate, as opposed to an acid reflux or something that's wrong with your digestive. See what I mean? You're going to know the best. But what I always tell people is you need to set aside at least 44 minutes and 44 seconds somewhere in your day to listen to the open door first and then whatever. One of those frequencies that adheres to your issue the best, the ultimate scenario. What we do in my house is we have speakers all over our house. So I leave it on 247 and I just let it play through. I let it filter through everything around the clock at a low volume.

Yeah. So when you're saying you need 44 minutes available, that can count as like time in your car, for example.

Absolutely anywhere. It doesn't have to be a focused therapy. Like some things are like, you can move around, you can do a lighthouse work, you can be in another room. You'll find that you can be upstairs and the music can disappear, but you'll hear that frequency just as loud as you did if you went back downstairs again, it travels.

Okay, gotcha. Cool. That's good to know because I plan on playing this all over my house. So a few other questions for you. Tuning forks. I ran into this lady at a health conference who was using tuning forks, and she'd choose a specific tuning forks and kind of put it near a different area of your body to target a specific region or organ. What are your thoughts on tuning forks as therapy? Is this the same concept or are tuning forks something completely different?

It's a very, I mean, it's a very similar therapy. If you think about it, it's all about vibration. The only thing I would say, and of course, I mean, I have a lot of friends that have companies and I love it. The only thing I can say about tuning for works is think about how long that vibration lasts. Does it work? Yes. I mean, can I put it, you know, in a cranial sacral point and, and hit a particular thing and will it, you know, work on that particular part? Yes, but what I'm talking about is something sustainable. I mean, actually, in essence, if I, you know, and, and, and I am working on a new project, I just can't talk about it yet. But the longer that I did that, let's say I had a tuning fork that lasted for 30 minutes. Now we're talking. If I could put that tuning fork on a particular part of my body, Ben. And it vibrated at the precise frequency necessary for 30 minutes. Now we're talking. But you got to remember, even if you're multiply striking it, you're always, there's always a transient point between the strike, the note, like the note. And most people that use that therapy, they don't do it for 5, 10, 20, 30 minutes. So yes, I think it's awesome. I think it works much better. If you have a sustainable solid underlayment of frequency, which is whole tones is. And most people don't know the music is the spoonful of sugar. The medicine that goes down is the frequency. That's the underlayment bed underneath that music. And so if I stripped away the music and you just listened to that tone for 22 minutes and 22 seconds, you would still get massive therapy. And I think that's where other modalities kind of miss it a little. Is that, like I said, strike response, strike response. It's like you're breaking up and adding transient points. Even if you want to do that for 30 minutes, you're much better off listening to something that's continuous.

Got it. Okay. So if I don't have access to a CD or music that I can play long term, I could potentially have one of these tuning forks that produces specific vibrational sound frequencies for healing. But ideally, if I want to do it for long periods of time, a CD would be ideal.

Well, I could tell you right now if you wanted to use a tuning fork, as long as you sampled it and it was seamless, where there wasn't like a bit rate issue or there wasn't splits between it, it would work. But what I did was, and I don't mind telling you because you get it, I couldn't use a frequency generator or any type of anything that was not analog. So people don't, they say, how did you make that beautiful? Because I got so disgusted by what I heard on YouTube and it was so. I mean it all sounded like just, you know, like when your TV goes off at one in the morning and just makes it boop. It's like, who could listen to that? And so I actually, I got a crystal vase and an eyedropper and I filled it with water until it pegged the frequency meter on my recording software. And when I hit it 12 o' clock, I sampled it. And so everything you're listening in the bottom are real wood strings, analog strings, and on the other side are crystal vases full of water making that tone.

Yeah, it's amazing. I mean just this concept of crystal and sound healing. And I don't know, have you ever been to like crystal and sound healing centers will where they'll actually just bombard your body with crystals or gongs or different forms of sound therapy, that there's a little practitioner there just walking around you, bombarding your body with frequencies.

I haven't done that. I've been to obviously a lot of places where they use Tibetan balls and place out in California that was a frequency center that they had non stop stuff playing there. But yeah, I mean it's awesome.

Yeah, that's actually on my list of things to do. I've done some sound healing, but there's apparently a guy in Sedona, one of my friends, Aubrey Marcus, who runs this supplement company called Onit. He swears by this guy when you have muscle or soft tissue issues and injuries, this guy can actually, he does a combination of body work and sound therapy. And that was where I got the idea to play play your music while my massage therapist was working on me. And I think, I think I've actually, I think I've tapped into something I think if you're a massage therapist and you're listening in, grab some of Michael's CDs and play them for your clients. And like I mentioned, the Sound of David frequency was the one that. That I have my massage therapist play, but I may experiment with some others. And then I use, like, your. Your 800 and some odd hertz, whatever it is.

For 852.

Yeah, 852. For. For devotions and prayer and stuff like that in the morning. But, man, I think this stuff is fascinating. I think that some people raise an eyebrow at it with good cause. Like, I'm all about being skeptical. But at the same time, you cannot deny, when it comes to frequencies, that they. That they not only affect the human body, but they affect water, they affect plants. I think you and I, Michael, would probably even argue that, you know, when there's stories in the Bible about how they blow trumpets and knock down the walls of Jericho and things like that, there's probably something to that that you could actually.

Oh, yeah, you can do quite a.

Bit with either chaotic frequencies or healing frequencies. Michael, your wealth of knowledge, and I could talk to you a lot more about music and sound. I know your time is limited, and I think we've given folks a little bit to work with here as far as getting their heads spinning when it comes to sound and healing with music and frequencies. So here's the deal. If you're listening in, go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com tones you can get Michael's stuff on Amazon, like his book, his CDs, et cetera. I'll put a link to some of the other things that we talked about, too. Things like binaural beats, things like tuning forks, biomats, all this jazz. If you want to completely geek out, the sky's the limit. I'm a big fan of paying attention to invisible variables in your life, like air, light, water, electricity, and, of course, sound. So, Michael, thank you for coming on the show, for sharing this stuff with us, and for doing the research that you did and for creating these whole tone CDs.

Oh, it's an honor, Ben. And I just, you know, my whole thing is I just want to see people get better if this helps them in any way. And according to, like I said, tens of thousands of testimonials, it is. And what I do with my life helps me sleep good at night.

I love it. All right, well, folks, again, if you're listening in, you can go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com tones to take a listen or investigate a little bit more. And until next time, I'm Ben Greenfield along with Michael Tyrell signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com have a healthy week.

You've been listening to the Ben Greenfield Fitness podcast. Go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com for even more cutting edge fitness and performance advice. Sam.