Vaccines vs. Natural Immunity, Sudden Death In Athletes, The Best Early Treatment Of COVID, The Joe Rogan Vaccine Podcast, Can You Get COVID Twice & Much More With Dr. Peter McCullough.

On this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast.

If Covid could be magically transmitted by people with no symptoms, it would be the first respiratory illness in the history of medicine where that's the case whether or not someone's received a vaccine. Once they have COVID 19, the vaccine has failed to do what it's supposed to do. So there's been multiple calls to the authorities to shut down these vaccine programs because of the the unacceptably high rates.

Of death, health performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show. Well, folks, you're no doubt familiar with my podcast guest today. If you've been following some of the science behind Covid and the vaccination debate and all the chatter that's been going on surrounding that. He's an internist, he's a cardiologist, and he's an epidemiologist. His name is Dr. Peter McCollough and he practices internal medicine, the management of common infectious diseases and cardiovascular complications of viral infections and particularly injuries developing after the COVID 19 vaccine. He lives in Dallas and he's kind of been all over the media, all over the news lately. He has lots of peer reviewed publications on the infection and he also has a few notable papers out there. He was recently on the Joe Rogan podcast and that seems at least that was a few days ago. And it seems that that has kind of blown up of late and has gotten a lot of media notice. Peter, how's the blowback from that been? I mean, I know that you were pretty prolific on a whole bunch of platforms prior to that, but Joe Rogan has a pretty popular show. Have you noticed that the attention on you or what you're doing has kind of been even more magnified since that particular interview?

Well, thanks for having me on the show. And as a practicing doctor, I'm one of the few doctors in the media that see patients as part of my regular work duties through the week, about half the time seeing patients, half the time in scholarship. As an author, editor, a researcher, now news commentator. Joe Rogan was a terrific experience. It turns out. He's a very nice guy, very personable. He had just had COVID 19 and he had received really the protocol that I drew up for America and for the world in the first publication in the American Journal of medicine in 2020 and then in reviews in cardiovascular medicine December of 2020. So Joe was very appreciative. He actually received, received what's now the copyright of the McCullough Protocol. So first time he actually got to meet the person who mastermind the treatment that he had received. And you know, he turned basically what would have been a 30 day illness into about a three day illness. You know, he communicated with Aaron Rodgers. Aaron Rodgers received the same thing. We heard now that there's a whole flurry of senators who have COVID 19 as the vaccines are failing. And I hope they're all receiving early treatment. They're reporting relatively mild symptoms, which is wonderful. The hospitals are not overflowing. So I'm hoping now that we've got a good installation of an early treatment framework, a state of mind now people understand they can't wait to start treatment when they're three weeks into it in the hospital. We shouldn't be getting these panic calls at this stage. It shouldn't be a surprise. By the way, when someone gets COVID 19, the calls need to happen on day one. In fact, patients by this time should have asked their doctor, are they ready to treat them when they develop COVID 19? If the doctors are not ready, who do they refer to? Where are the monoclonal antibody centers? What are the hours of operation? How do they do the oral and nasal sanitizing to kill the virus so they don't spread it around? All these fundamentals people should have at this point in time. It should not be COVID 19, should not be a surprise two years into it. Yeah.

Did you, so you had a paper that came out kind of outlining what you recommend for the early treatment, which from what it sounds like you know that that's what Joe, for example, did. And you're right, Joe's a nice guy. I've actually been on his podc, I guess three times now. And he's, he's fantastic. He's super smart. I think sometimes he, sometimes he seems to like play dumb on some of his podcast episodes, just I think get his interviewees to, to chat. But yeah, he's a really smart, super nice guy. And, and yeah, I remember he put out a video after he got Covid about all these things he did, the monoclonal antibodies, et cetera. But regarding that protocol, is there like, like kind of like a layperson's description, that protocol or like downloadable document that somebody could reference regarding what you recommend for early treatment?

Sure. That document was published and posted on the Internet now has been downloaded, utilized probably tens, if not hundreds of millions of times. And it is called the COVID 19 Home Treatment Guide. It's offered through the association of American physicians and surgeons aapsonline.org it's also available by the Truth for Health foundation truthforhealth.org Go to guides and you can download it. It gives all the information on what needs to be done. Everything from using palvidone iodine and dilute peroxide in the nose and mouth to start killing the virus. The nutraceuticals and supplements, what you have over the counter. Everybody should have a home treatment kit assembled at home from stuff you buy over the counter. You'll spend probably less than $20 and be ready for COVID 19. And then it lists the monoclonal antibodies and then the prescription drugs that the doctor will call in. In most cases, especially when people over age 50 with medical problems and certainly all seniors over 65, there should never be a senior citizen that goes without treatment.

You mean prescription drugs like Ivermectin for example?

Sure. So after the monoclonal antibodies, which by the way are emergency use authorized, we have Lilly has a combined product called Bamalivumab combined with erticivimab, those two antibodies against the viral spike protein. We have Regeneron, which has been the workhorse. That's again an antibody pair. That's Caracivumab and Indetamab. And then now we have the GSK product which is a single monoclonal antibody, but it's against a stable part of the spike protein called Sototermab, which actually has the best overall. I mean, that monoclonal antibody alone in a randomized trial reduced hospitalization and death by 85%. Now we have the other drugs and the other drugs I think have a modest impact compared to the monoclonal antibodies. But we use them until we got the monoclonal antibodies and we still use them, they're partially assistive. Hydroxychloroquine has overall about a 24% risk reduction. That's in a publication that I have with now actually Surgeon General of Florida Joe Ladapo. Hydroxychloroquine has over 300 supportive studies and again it's modestly effective. Ivermectin more effective than hydroxychloroquine. About 60 supportive studies. They are probably about a 70% overall reduction in events, but need to start early and it's a weight based dosing. And then outside the United States there's Favipiravir for Japan and Russia. In other countries, that's Avagan. That's pretty modestly effective. That's very similar to the new drug called Molnupirnavir. Now that's gonna be Modestly effective as well.

Yeah, yeah.

And then now the Pfizer. The Pfizer drug is. Yeah, the Pfizer drug. Just to finish that layer. The Pfizer drug is a pair of drugs. It's what's called kinase like 3 protease inhibitor combined with an HIV protease inhibitor called Ritonavir, and that had very low rates of events in the clinical trials, but still favored strongly the Pfizer drug. So we have a good layer of oral antivirals. We combine that with azithromycin and doxycycline.

Okay, got it. So thesethese monoclonal antibodies, you know, there's a guy, he actually did like a, he did a video after you got interviewed by Joe Rogan. He goes by ZDoggMD, Zubin Damiana I think is his name. And he was commenting on these monoclonals, which are just laboratory produced molecules, molecules that kind of act as substitute antibodies to help to mimic the immune system's attack on cells, from what I understand. And he basically had this idea that he was skeptical of therapeutics. He liked vaccines because he said they use the body's natural immune defenses and train them and that these therapeutics circumvent what the body does. They try to hack around it. Whereas vaccines kind of prevent disease better than some of these therapeutics like monoclonal antibodies. I mean, what's your thought on that? This idea that vaccines would implement the body's natural immune system defenses better than say, a therapeutic might?

Well, there are two different indications. Remember, vaccines are used to prevent the occurrence of the disease. That's what the approval is for the vaccines. So whether or not someone's received a vaccine, once they have COVID 19, the vaccine has failed to do what it's supposed to do. Right. So we're already past the vaccine layer. So the vaccine is indicated to prevent the occurrence of COVID 19. The monoclonal antibodies are indicated to treat active COVID 19 illness. So they're two separate indications. The two can't be confused with one another.

Do you think that pharmaceutical companies are, are finding profit in these therapeutics? Because there's like this whole idea that, you know, almost like a conspiracy theory that vaccines are going to make pharmaceutical companies a lot of money. But from what I understand, like these therapeutics are actually pretty profitable for a pharmaceutical company. Even more profitable compared to like a vaccination. Yeah.

Well, the monoclonal antibodies are expensive to produce. We basically have to get the gene that codes for the antibody, which is a designer antibody. And then have it fully humanized in a mouse model with the human immune system. And then it has to be transferred into a cell suspension, typically a hamster ovary suspension, to start cranking huge amounts of the antibodies. That's how Humira is made and that's how praluent and repath. These common monoclonal antibodies we use in our practice every day for other conditions. So the three monoclonal antibodies for COVID 19 involve the same production. So the point is they're expensive to produce. And you know, I think it's wonderful that they got brought forward through operation warp speed and that they're available. Everyone should just know where to find them so that we shouldn't have to go through this fire drill every day of, you know, I'm sick, what do I do next? It's like, come on, we've had these out now. The monoclonal antibodies came out before the vaccines. They came out in November of 2020 and they're full emergency use authorized. So everybody should just make some phone calls and know what their action plan is. It's a one hour infusion. You go in, you get a one hour infusion.

Is that like an I?

Yeah, it's like an iv. It's very well tolerated. The only problem I've had, I use them every day in my practice. The only problem I've had is when the infusion is rushed too much. And I always tell the patients, don't let the nurses or people rush. You just take it an hour, infuse it another hour, make sure things are okay, and then go home after that.

You mean rush like theylike, they speed up the drip too much, they speed.

It up, they say, oh, we'll get it done in 20 minutes. And I've had now two cases of serious reactions when it's rushed too much.

Really? What happens if you rush it?

Like kind of facial redness, swelling, trouble breathing. It's just in general, we don't, on these IV infusions, we just don't rush them. The body accepts them if they are over a reasonable period. An hour is the standard. And you know, with the GSK product, it can be used in the label, the emergency use authorized label all the way down to age 12. So we get, every so often we'll get a teenager with asthma or cystic fibrosis now and we can use these in these severely ill people. Do you know the kids, the only kids who are hospitalized are the ones who respond to receive no treatment. They receive no early treatment and they get really sick at home, they end up in the hospital. We can avoid all that with high quality outpatient treatment.

What's an early treatment? Like, how early is this, like the sign of the sniffles? Is this like totally asymptomatic? And then they test positive? Like, what would you consider early to be?

I'm glad you mentioned that. You know, it's very age dependent in general. So the older someone is, you can almost always predict they're gonna have a rough time with COVID The younger they are, you can almost predict it's gonna be like the sniffles. The problem is for both groups, it starts out as the sniffles. So right now, if we have somebody in their 80s and they develop some nasal congestion and sniffles, we say, listen, get a test and we can even do a home test. They can go to the pharmacy and get the covaxin test and do a simple antigen test and see if it's positive. If it lights up positive, you know, it has a strong positive predictive value. And somebody who is symptomatic, we say, listen, that's COVID 19. Let's start treatment. So what would that be like for an 80 year old? It would be aagain. We'd immediately start dilute povidone iodine nasal washes. And we're talking about a nasal spray. Spray it up in the nose, sniff it back, and then spit it out. Then gargle with scoper Listerine and start doing that every four hours. That starts to cut down the nasal viral replication. Then we ask the seniors to take supplements. Zinc, 50 milligrams, elemental zinc. Vitamin D, 5,000 international units. That's prevention. We go up to 20,000 units a day in active treatment. Vitamin C, 3,000 milligrams, cursing, 500 milligrams twice a day. And then we add an over the counter antihistamine antacid called famotidine or Pepcid, 80 milligrams a day. So that layer, we can start right away because everybody's gonna have this at home in their Covid emergency kit. So everyone's ready to go at home. That's the idea, is be prepared. We're two years into this. No one should be surprised if they get COVID 19. No one should be scrambling the day they get a positive test. They should know what they should do. So we have that list of really important is preparation. You can imagine my phone is blowing up every day with people who are panicking. It's like, listen, we're two years into this. We've Had US Senate testimony on this twice. We're going to have the third set of testimony in January. We have home treatment guides. We've got four national telemedicine services, 15 regional telemedicine services. We've had innumerable online seminars, et cetera. So everyone should be prepared. Then after that layer of nutraceuticals and supplements, the 80 year old would get the monoclonal antibody infusion. It's my experience if we get the monoclonal antibody infusion like on day one or two, then we can skip hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin. I simply add some doxycycline to cover the or azithromycin to cover the bacterial part of the sinus infection in bronchitis. And then we use inhale budesonide. That's a steroid. It's proven in a randomized trial to reduce hospitalization risk by 80% alone. We use oral colchicine, an anti inflammatory, for a full 30 days. Proven in a huge clinical trial called the Co Corona trial. Over 4,000 patients, double blind randomized placebo control. Super high quality study. So we know we got colchicine. We use aspirin throughout as a blood thinner. 325 milligrams a day for an 80 year old, I'd consider that. Continue that for 90 days. Reduce the risk of late heart attack or stroke as well. And then on day five of pulmonary symptoms, we use prednisone, which is a common steroid we'd use for asthma or for emphysema. And then the only question left now is blood thinners. So the last call I had, which was about five minutes before I came on, was an 80 year old. And we went through all the drugs. I talked to the daughter and she goes, well, she's already on a blood thinner called Eliquis for atrial fibrillation. I said, fine, you've got that covered.

So then you wouldn't put her on aspirin?

No, I would go ahead and use both right now because we know that COVID 19 is the most thrombogenic condition we have right now. The call I just had before that somebody was on a blood thinner or we used a blood thinner and we added aspirin as well. The lead blood thinner for really sick patients is actually Lovenox and we dose it in a milligram per kilogram dose every 12 hours. But what I've described for you is about four to six drugs. It's called the McCullough Protocol. It is Called sequence multidrug therapy. It has been a standard now going on for over a year. It's used in different formats throughout the United States. Americans should be reassured that while I was working with my teams of Doctors, mainly Italian, US collaborators, Dr. Pierre Cory and Paul Merrick were working in the FLCC group separately from us. They arrived at similar conclusions. They have slightly different protocols called Imath and MathPlus. Dr. Divier Rialt was working separately in Marseille, France, and as well as Vladimir Zelenko, they came up with an approach that, again, same principles, slightly different combinations. People should be reassured that early treatment does work. The papers by Rialt, by Zelenko, and by Proctor here in Dallas show even with our earliest, simplest protocols, 85% reductions in hospitalization and death. I think with the monoclonal antibodies. Now, the other things I mentioned, we should have a very rare case that would need to be hospitalized.

Yeah, yeah. You know, but back In December of 2019, I went to India like, like, just as there were a couple stories coming out about COVID And I got lucky in that I, you know, just basically made myself my own first aid kit for traveling to India. You know, I bought like 25 of those N95 masks back when they were far less expensive than they are now due to demand, and, you know, had had my whole first aid kit very similar to what you've actually described, although I didn't have monoclonals or anything like that. You know, I, I had ivermectin, I had, I had peptides, I had hydrogen peroxide, a little travel nebulizer. You know, I had the whole kit. And so, so got lucky in the, in that I had all that stuff at the house and in my travel kit and, and managed to actually get out of India just in the nick of time, you know, as they were starting to kind of shut stuff down. But one of the things was this, this nebulizer, you know, I still have it, I've got on my desk and you're talking. You ever mess around with a nebulizer as an alternative to something like that?

Yeah, I like the idea of a nebulizer. Go ahead and nebulize. Dilute hydrogen peroxide. Put a few drops of Lugoil's iodine, L U G O L S Iodine in it. That's a blue bottle you get on Amazon for about five bucks. And if it stings, it's too strong, make it more dilute and nebulize it and just sniff it up in the nose. And what you do is you kill the preponderance of the virus. The virus is easily killed. The mistake people have been making is they've been focusing on hand sanitizer. You know, it's not even spread on the hands. It's not a hand infection. It's an infection in the nose. You have to do something to sanitize the nose. And people have been preoccupied with the hands. So it's been one of these, you know, ridiculous things. Everybody should know. It's not a hand infection. We don't go around saying COVID 19 is a hand infection, yet we're incessantly.

I know I was in that boat because I get lots of packages from Amazon. I remember when this first happened, like, right when I got back from India. I was spraying down all my packages with hand sanitizer and alcohol and just thought anything I touched could infect me. And, you know, now I think it is prudent to just focus on the nasal passages. But, you know, I've gotten. Actually, you know, I mentioned to a few people that I was gonna have you on my show. And, like, the number one question I got over and over again, Peter was, everybody said, what does Peter mean when he says you can't get Covid twice? Like my uncle or my neighbor or my friend or me? Like, I feel like I got Covid twice. And somebody like 10 minutes before we got on to interview today sent me over a tweet by Robert Malone, the guy who I guess was one of the inventors of the vaccination or did a lot of research behind it. And he says he actually tweeted. He was like, peter is wrong. I had Covid two times, and so did my wife and so did many others. What's the deal with getting Covid twice? Is that established that you can't get it twice? Is it just really rare and few and far between, or what's going on with that?

You know, it depends on context. So let me give you a context. So my daughter had documented COVID 19 with the characteristic signs and symptoms last year in 2020. And she's in her mid-20s. She needed a little bit of treatment on the back end, and she's fine. Well documented and prolonged illness. You know, COVID 19 is always two weeks to four weeks prolonged. Now, because in my family, some people are germaphobes, and we have some elderly people in my house. My daughter's in California, and she developed a cold. She developed a head cold. And everyone says, well, listen, you better get a COVID test and she goes, well, I already had Covid. You can't get it again. Get a COVID test. So the poor thing canceled her flights, and she was getting daily Covid tests. So the first day on Tuesday, it was negative. The second day on Wednesday, it was positive. The third day on Thursday, it's negative. And now she's home and her cold's completely gone. So was that Covid? And I would, based on what I know as a clinician, a doctor, it's like, no, that was a false positive test. What people are being confused with is the false positivity of the test. I actually looked at her test and the cycle threshold on it was 37. The CDC says no cycle thresholds above.

28, because the more cycle thresholds, the more likelihood of a false positive.

Right, False positive. So right now the NHL announced they're going to daily testing. There's 47 players in the NFL. Notice nobody's sick and in the hospital, but we have an epidemic of false positive tests. This is all just a product of false positive testing.

So it's not like you couldn't get Covid twice. It's just like, it'd be rare and few and far between for something like that to ever happen. Or is it like biochemically impossible to get it twice?

You know, this idea of, you know, I got it and my wife got it too, and we both got it twice. I mean, I think that's honestly, it's a contextual thing. It's a problem of getting a test and getting a false positive test. Let me give another example. My dad had COVID 19, in a nursing home. He got really sick. He was sick for a month. He got over, he got better. They kept testing him to see when they were going to let him out of this Covid unit. He intermittently tested positive 17 times over the next three to six months. He didn't have Covid 17 times. It's just that the test remains positive intermittently for a long period of time. It's considered a false positive test, particularly in someone who's had it before, because we now know the viral remnants of the virus last in the body for a year and a half. Bruce Patterson showed that. So it's not surprising. You could. So we tell people, listen, if you've had COVID 19, don't get another test, because all you're going to do is get some type of false positive test and be in this conundrum. So many people are under the idea that they think they're getting COVID 19 over and over again. And I always tell people, listen, take a look at it. Did you have a 30 day illness where you were really sick and did you end up on the ventilator twice and have X ray changes? Whatever. They're like, no, really, One time I just had a drippy nose or I was trying to travel to Hawaii or something. I said, listen, that's not two cases of COVID You had one real case likely and you have one false positive or intermittently positive post infection. But it's a one time illness. We know that because the virus is analogous to SARS COV1 where there's a one time infection and lifetime immunity. Our CDC has been legally challenged by lead attorney Aaron Seary, said, listen, if you've got a second case, if you really think somebody can get it twice, show it to us. Because they're trying to make the case that everybody should take the vaccine. And it's clear once you've had COVID 19, you can't get it again. And so there's about 100 cases in the peer reviewed literature where doctors think, aha, here's somebody who's got it the second time, 100. Now we're talking 100 out of 8 billion people on Earth. They think there's 100 cases. I've looked at every one of them and every one of them is basically just another exercise in false positive testing where on one occasion it's a positive test but they're not really sick. On another occasion they really have Covid and they're sick and they have X ray changes and hospitalized. We know this because think about how many cases we've had in the United States. If it was possible to get it a second time, the nursing homes would be sweeping and cleaning out patients and on the ventilator over and over again. We never hear about it. Never.

Maybe a dumb question, but is there like a better way to test than the PCR test to eliminate the chances of these, of false positives popping up?

Yeah. So I've proposed, listen, that COVID 19 is such a serious illness, if people really want to propose that they get it two times that, boy, the second time they better have a PCR at a low cycle threshold under 28 and have confirmatory antigen testing and have limited sequencing which now is FDA EUA approved. I mean, you better nail it down. That's the reason why the CDC doesn't have any cases because there's nothing verifiable. There are no second cases.

Well, by the way, for that early treatment stuff that you were Talking about, I'll hunt it down. So for people listening in, I'll put all the shownotes@bengreenfieldfitness.com DrPeter like Dr. Peter. So if you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com DrPeter I'll put that there so that you can access that. And the previous podcasts that I've done about this kind of stuff now kind of sort of related to the testing thing. Peter, the claim that, like, asymptomatic testing isn't necessary because there's no asymptomatic transmission of COVID Is there really, like no data that you can't transmit it if you're asymptomatic?

Well, if Covid could be magically transmitted by people with no symptoms, it would be the first respiratory illness in the history of medicine where that's the case. Do you see what I mean? So we basically making something up if we say suddenly somebody is perfectly asymptomatic and they literally could just walk into a room and magically somebody else get it? Respiratory illnesses in the history of medicine have never been that way. So to kind of assume a magical quality about this illness, in my view, was kind of a mistake to begin with. We should have always assumed that, yeah, you have to be symptomatic to transmit it, just like every other respiratory illness.

It's kind of like a unique illness. Right. Especially if you believe the idea that it was engineered for gain of function and the spike protein has been modified, etc. I mean, wouldn't it kind of make sense that it would act differently than some of the previous sars?

Well, it's acting pretty similar to sars and it's certainly not acting as bad as Spanish flu. I mean, yeah, it's up there, but it's not that unique. Again, it just violates everything we understand about communicability. Having said that, there was these papers published saying, Listen, 30 to 50% of spread is asymptomatic. And for that reason that triggered all these shutdowns, all these lockdowns, and people were trying to shake hands.

Yeah, that's a pretty high percentage.

Yeah. And people were trying to touch. And so what happened was these models were predicted actually out of University of Washington. I'm a UW graduate in medicine there, and I can tell you it's called the Murray model. They were predicting 30 to 50% spread. And so these models were swept across the United States and then there was all these reactions based on them. So in Dallas, as an example, because of the models The Army Corps of Engineers came into Dallas and they started setting up an army field hospital in the Dallas County Convention Center. They had thousands of cots, IV bags, ventilators, medics. They were all standing at the ready. And I published an op ed in the Hill. When I saw this happening, I said, these models are completely off. It doesn't spread symptomatically, asymptomatically. No respiratory illness does. I said, we'll never use a single bed in that army hospital. And turns out we never used a single bed. So the models were completely off base, and we ended up wasting an enormous amount of money. And now two papers, one by Cao Cao and the other one by Madewell, published in 2020, basically disproved asymptomatic spread. Cao basically looked and looked and looked among 10 million Chinese and said, find one person who's got the virus who really doesn't have symptoms. And it turns out out of 10 million, they found 300. And then they looked at every single person they touched and came in contact, and nobody got the virus. And so the bottom line is if you even have really have the virus, it's there by sequencing and you're asymptomatic, your body is forming immunity to it, and you can't spread it anyway. You.

What about if you're vaccinated? If you're vaccinated, could you spread it?

You know, those studies haven't been done among the vaccinated. Now, it's possible that the vaccine could take a little edge off incipient symptoms and make somebody spread the virus more. It's possible. I don't want to blame the vaccinated for anything. People took the vaccines, thought they were doing the right thing. But the bottom line is we know now just with good measures, like not going to school while you're sick and when you, if you're sick at school, go home, that those measures are working. You know how we know that? Because everyone's back at school and there's no school outbreaks. None. We've been at it for six months now. No school outbreaks. Not a single one.

Yeah, I was listening to that. That the, the, the ZDogg, Maryland. Guy that I was talking about after you got interviewed by Joe Rogan and related to like, the, the school outbreaks. He said that there's like lower incidence of kids getting COVID infection in highly vaccinated adult communities. Like some kind of like a cocooning effect, where if you have a whole bunch of people vaccinated in a community, kids are getting it less because it reduces the amount of circulating coronavirus, apparently. So there's protection for kids who aren't vaccinated. What do you think about that whole idea? Like there's this whole proposed or so called cocooning effect.

It doesn't look like it's supportable. I think people would want to think that, but there's a paper by Anika Singhanayagam and it was published in Lancet, and the title of the paper is called Community Transmission and Viral load kinetics of SARS CoV2 delta. And in that paper, this idea of cocooning was kind of evaluated. And the bottom line is they found that 39% of transmission is from fully vaccinated to fully vaccinated in the house. So the kids aren't protected at all from adults who are vaccinated. What we know is that in the pediatric meetings in September and October, in the meeting minutes, the general agreement by the experts was that through May, 40% of kids had already had COVID 19. So the reason, you know, they had basically natural mirror. You don't get it twice. It was one and done.

And they know that from like doing antibody tests on the kids.

There's, there are antibody prevalence studies and also just the community overall transmission rates. And now we have data, you know, through the Delta outbreak, I estimate that we probably have 80% of kids who have already had it. And so that's the reason why we're seeing no outbreaks. Scott Atlas presented at a meeting with me recently data suggesting that elementary school teachers and junior high teachers are the safest of all professions from COVID 19 because the kids are an immunologic buffer. They've already had the illness. So again, the beautiful thing is you don't get it a second time. So that immunity is robust, complete and durable. There's over 140 studies now that support natural immunity. All we're left with is a false positive conundrum. And if we just stop testing people and only use tests in the acutely ill, we'd be a lot better off.

Now over to the vaccination piece. You know, there's this whole, how do you pronounce it? The VARS V A E R S database. Like the adverse event reporting. In terms of the adverse event reporting, you know, obviously there's a lot that's being reported and some people say that because it's a voluntary reporting system and like anything that happens after a vaccine gets reported to VARs, that there's like a vastly overestimated estimation of the number of vaccine complications because it's just kind of like one of those things where there's just more being reported, period. Do you think that's the case or do you think that there's actually something to the idea of all these reports of issues with vaccine injuries based on the VARS database?

Well, I'd point you to a paper by Cody Meissner. M E I S S N E R M D and that's in the association of AAPS News, the American Academy of Pediatrics. And this was before COVID And it asked the question, who reports to vaers? Who reports to vaers? And the answer is family members. And the individual patients is only 14% of the time. Only 14. And you know why? Because it's so hard. Oh my gosh. It's multiple pages of entry. You have to enter in all the hospital data, all the laboratory data, the doctor's information, doctor's phone numbers, fax numbers, and each page is under the threat of a federal imprisonment or fines if it's falsified. So we know 86% of the time it's doctors, nurses, coroners, the pharmaceutical companies.

At least 86% of the time before COVID We don't know where it's at now though.

Well, I have to tell you, I think it's the exact same number because, you know, we're looking. There's two different ways to look at who's being injured, who's dying after the vaccines. We can use VAERS and we can use cms. CMS doesn't rely on voluntary reporting. CMS knows who's been vaccinated and who died and who's been hospitalized. And so we can look at the relationships and get to. So VAERS is always thought to be underreporting, never over reported underreporting. There's been multiple papers on this. The question is with COVID to what extent is it underreported? So in the publicly available CMS whistleblower lawsuit against the U.S. you know, the U.S. government's being sued for death after vaccination. The underreporting relationship is established with vaers. And the answer is on mortality. It's a five fold underreporting. And that's pretty solid. So, and they've looked at it multiple times.

It seems like they, it seems like what they should do is like figure out what are the chances that you could die or hadn't have an adverse effect anyways. Like if you look at say like the data on the death rate in seniors, like, you know, you could vaccinate somebody who's like 90 years old and the next day they could die. But it seems like you'd have to figure out like what the statistical background rate of death in that population would be to begin with. Right. And then compare it to the background rate.

Well, you look at what's called temporal association. So, yeah, people are always dying every day, but in general the rate's pretty steady day by day by day. So if you give a shot and the shot has nothing to do with the death, the death, the background death rates are steady day by day by day. It's kind of a flat curve. But if you give a shot and there's a huge spike in the death rates after the shots are administered consistently over and over again. In vaers and in cms, we know the temporal relationship is really tight. And I tell you, right, it's like a cannon shot went off. It's 50% of the deaths occur within 48 hours. 80% occur within a week after the vaccine. You mean after the shot? Yeah. So it's not flat at all. It's not flat. So it's, it's nowhere near saying this is a background rate of death. This is very strongly temporary related. And not only that, but there's nursing home studies where, you know, there's a nursing home study from Scandinavia where they, you know, they have 100 nursing home patients who die of the vaccine and they actually have the charts to review. And so, you know, those exist out there. There's been the most recent. Let me give you the nursing home study, see if I can get this for you. I want to make sure we get the quotations.

Take your time. We want to make sure we get it right.

Right. But the most recent paper of you could say, well, the VAER system has got a flaw to it. We can look at another database called the VIGISAFE database. Vigisafe, there it doesn't. That's the WHO safety system.

Okay.

And can look at deaths there and they find that basically the same relationship and it's an age relationship. Who's dying after the vaccine? It's those over 65. So it turns out of the serious safety reports after vaccination was called serious adverse event safety reports. It was. About 4% of all the serious reports are deaf when they get reported in VigiSafe over age 65. And then we can look in the yellow card system, the MHRA system. And there, there is an independent report from an independent consulting company that's the lead consultancy to the World Health Organization. They're Called the evidence based consulting group, they evaluate the yellow card system and they found the same thing, an irrefutable temporal relationship. People take the shot, within a few days, they die. And they reported to mhra, they said, listen, these aren't safe. Shut them down. So there's been multiple calls to authorities to shut down these vaccine programs because of the unacceptably high rates of death.

Now, what about, that's for the elderly, but what about for kids? Like I've been hearing especially about, like young boys and myocarditis? Is that more, more Covid or more the. The vaccine where something like that is occurring? Right, because I know, I know the spike protein can be problematic for myocarditis and so natural Covid could cause myocarditis. But what about the vaccine? Like, which one's worse when it comes to increasing risk of myocarditis?

Well, let's take the natural infection first. So with the natural infection, people who are sick enough to be admitted to the hospital and sick enough to be in the icu, there will be a rate, probably about half of them will have an elevated cardiac troponin above the upper limit of normal. The blood test, Troponin is a test for heart injury. But the same is true for those in the ICU for pneumococcal sepsis and meningococcal sepsis and for urosepsis and for. That's just basically an ICU elevation of troponin. There aren't associated EKG changes or echocardiography changes. So it doesn't meet a definition of myocarditis. But that is in the COVID literature. Actually, the Chinese reported this and importantly, they never labeled it as myocarditis. They labeled it as a cardiac injury pattern as seen by the cardiac troponin testing in the kids. It's very different. The kids actually take the vaccines and then they develop an explosive syndrome of chest pain, difficulty breathing. The parents bring them into the ER and they have cardiac troponins that aren't just a little bit elevated, they're about 100 times elevated compared to the upper limit of normal. And they have dramatic EKG changes. About a quarter of them have basically abnormalities on echo. And the CDC first reported this with the FDA back in June. They had 200 cases. And the FDA immediately put a warning on it, said, listen, Pfizer Moderna can cause myocarditis. And then what happened is, you know, parents kept taking their kids in for vaccination, and now we've got over 16,000 of these cases. And we know now the initial CDC initially reported that 90% of these kids needed hospitalization. It takes a lot to hospitalize a 15 year old, let me tell you. And then Tracy Hogue published from the University of California, Davis, at the end of the summer, thousands of cases from the VAERS and V Safe data, 86% were hospitalized. And now we have a paper by Truong and colleagues, Truong and colleagues from University of Utah at Salt Lake, where they indicate now that the hospitalization rate, I believe, is about 79%. Still, a large number of individuals have to be hospitalized for this. This is the point I'm making, is this myocarditis is no joke. It's nowhere close to being the same thing as the respiratory illness. People have said, well, there's more. There's a paper in the New England Journal of Medicine, which I think is just invalid, where they say, well, there's more. Myocarditis. With COVID 19 there is illness. I said, well, it's because there's a lot of old people in the hospital with COVID 19 and they get in the ICU. It's not clinical myocarditis. These kids who basically are taking the vaccines, they're minding their own business at home, they're actually coming into the hospital for myocarditis. They're apples and oranges. Apples and oranges. They're not the same illness. The myocarditis. You know, this one is clear. The FDA is telling parents don't vaccinate the kids because they get myocarditis. I think parents should just pay attention to those ones.

Yeah, what I was trying to figure out was like, it seems like the myocarditis seems to happen, especially like in kids after the second dose. Like this is the so called booster dose of the vaccines. That's what I was trying to figure out was like, is it the actual vaccine or is it some kind of like an immune response that kicks in after the second dose that increases the chance that there's going to be some kind of a crossover effect on the heart? Does that make sense?

You're close. I mean, there's a paper by Avolio and colleagues that have really worked this out that the heart really basically gets primed and the parasites are basically attacked by the spike protein. And that spike protein starts to attack these cells. The cells provide the integrity to the capillary system, to the cardiomyocytes. And there is wide open heart inflammation, heart damage. There's a paper by Choi and colleagues from Korea. A young man takes the vaccine. A few days later, he develops explosive chest pain, goes in the er. Seven hours later, he's dead. They do an autopsy. His heart is loaded with inflammation, loaded throughout the conduction system, et cetera. Another paper by Lim and colleagues from Korea. Young woman. They're able to save her, but she needs to go on ecmo, a form of advanced support. She went completely flatlined. They're doing CPR on her. And now there's this collage. I don't know if you've seen these European athletes. I think they're nearly up to 200 athletes who have dropped dead.

Yeah. Like dying during practice. Yeah, yeah.

They're holding their chest and then they fall over. And, you know, the million dollar question is, you know, who took the vaccines and when did they take them? You know, we know that once somebody develops myocarditis, they absolutely can't have any physical activity. Physical activity will trigger a cardiac death event.

I think there's a lot of variables there too, though, because, like, I think it was last year I was reading a report in the Journal of Strength Conditioning Research. Like practices have changed. The environment where people are practicing has changed. Even, like the fitness of some of these athletes because they're able to train less has changed. So I think there's a lot of variables, like, I'm not sure one way or the other if it's a vaccine issue with all these athletes dying, or just so much has changed since COVID anyways, in terms of their training environment, their training conditions, their training fitness. It's super tough to say it is.

But I can tell you as a cardiologist, this is my field. In the last 20 years, I'm telling you, certainly last 10 years, there is very meticulous screening for hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, for.

Instance, which I have, by the way, I've got a massive left ventricle just from all my endurance training.

No, I'm talking about genetic hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, where there's a risk for sudden death and people get defibrillators and stuff. So we have very good genetic testing. We have echocardiography, mri, ecg. That hereditary fatal cardiomyopathy that no longer steps on the playing field. Those days are over with. The other thing we know is the athletes now are incredibly. Well, the sports physical for these pro athletes has turned out to be a very detailed evaluation. We know that sports strengths have dramatically improved. So everything I'm mentioning is actually working to have decreased sudden death rates on the field. And so to have an explosion, a couple hundred athletes visibly, you know, basically fall dead on the field is distinctly unusual. And because the only thing that's really changed is vaccination, it does make one wonder if this is subclinical myocarditis and these are cardiac deaths. The one question I think that's perplexing is why aren't we seeing this in the US and it's really ex us.

That's kind of weird.

Well, the only thing I can tell you there is we never really know in the US who took the vaccines. Right. So look at Aaron Rodgers as an example. You know, there's kind of this general assumption that everybody in the NFL took the vaccines. And then suddenly Aaron Rodgers gets COVID 19 and people say, well, did you take the vaccine? He said, no, I didn't. So it looks like the athletes have a way of non disclosure that they don't have to disclose their vaccine status and they can just kind of go along with a general talking point by the team. They work it out legally. So we really don't know within sports right now who took the vaccine and.

Who didn't in the US at least. Yeah.

So, I mean, so I think that's the point that, you know, thank goodness we don't have our star athletes dropping dead on the field. But what they're seeing in Europe, obviously these are huge losses. They're coming up on about 200. I mean, this is extraordinary. They're losing star player after star player.

It's crazy. Now, you know, in terms of like your own genesis when it comes to getting into all of this. I mean, like when you were a doctor, you know, like 10 years ago, did you ever imagine that this is what you'd be doing or what you'd be immersed in, or if you'd be at the forefront of a debate like this?

You know? No, I didn't. And you know, most doctors like myself, we're not very kind of military oriented. We're not very courageous or jumping into battle. But the way COVID 19 worked out is it's not a problem that government agencies can battle. Right. So the CDC and nih, fda, they don't treat anybody and people are falling sick all over the place. It really boils down to doctors. Doctors are either going to step up or they're not. And what happened in the United States is we had about 500 doctors step up. And, you know, it takes a lot of courage, takes intellectual guts, takes a lot of clinical skill, everything. There's just not that many doctors who kind Of Meet the Grade, a lot of doctors are just on the sidelines. They tell patients there's no treatment for COVID 19. And I think, honestly, a lot of them are just. They don't want to treat COVID 19. They're afraid of it.

Well, that's what I wanted to ask you. If there's like, 500 doctors, is there a way, let's say somebody wants their primary care physician or their family's physician to be a physician who's kind of familiar with some of the early treatment stuff that you talked about and maybe is thinking with an open mind here? Is there like a list somewhere? Like, you just mentioned 500 doctors. But I mean, is there like a physician's directory or anything like that for people who may want to be looking for a new doc or trying to find somebody who's kind of, you know, got, I guess, got their head screwed on the way that you do?

Yeah. So the list is kept by association of American physicians and surgeons, aapsonline.org it's updated once a month. And, you know, more and more doctors do join the list. There are AAPS has all the training seminars and webinars and, you know, all the instructional materials on how to do this. You know, we're far enough along now. We're a year into it, where we've had the treatment guides and all the standards. The Frontline Critical Care Consortium has just a little different blend of approaches. They again, have webinars monthly, actually, they have weekly educational updates to get everybody up to speed. So there's plenty of opportunities to get involved and treat COVID 19. And more and more doctors are doing it. Thank goodness we had the doctors do it. Who they would. I can't imagine if nobody treated COVID 19. Oh, my Lord, it would have been a disaster. It was bad enough as it was. I testified in the US Senate in November 2020 that half of the lives could have been saved. At that time, we had about 200,000 deaths, and I thought about half could have been saved because it took a learning curve before we could learn how to treat it. And it took time for me to publish it. I was the first one to get a publication over the finish line. That just takes time. Otherwise there's no dissemination. We can't even get anywhere. Once we got the news out in the November, December early treatment hearings and got that permanently as part of U.S. history, the telemedicine services took off, the regional telemedicine services took off. Doctors started to engage. And so in March of 2020, one I told Texas Senate, I said, I think I'd upgrade it to about 85% of the lives could have been saved if every doctor jumped into action and helped patients. Now, the drugs themselves aren't perfect. They've gotten better over time. But you can imagine a senior citizen who is sick. Everyone's afraid to see them, so nobody will come over and see them and sit at home sicker and sicker. They call the doctor's office two or three times, the doctor's office tells them, nope, there's no treatment. And then they finally just toss in the towel and they go to the hospital. And then the vast majority of people who die with COVID they actually die in the hospital. They don't die at home. So then, you know, the hospital is part of that death sequence. You can imagine all of that would be avoided because the drugs reduce the intensity and duration of symptoms. And by that mechanism they reduce that panic trigger to go to the hospital. And if you can get through it at home, by definition you never get to the hospital. So you never get to the point of death.

Yeah, that's a good point. Now, you know, there's a lot of other vaccines like, because I've interviewed some other docs who've brought this up and also, you know, I've kind of been trying to keep my finger on the pulse of this because like I'm, I'm not anti vaxx, I'm not opposed to getting a vaccine. I just, I'm not convinced the ones that are out there right now are, are safe enough, at least as far as long term data. But there's, there's some like, you know, Novavax or Covaxin or Vaccinity. There's another one I was following called Inovio and some of these look like they might be a little bit safer, you know, like for example, Inovio I know is something that's just like delivered intradermally like to the deltoid muscle. So you aren't apparently getting the spike protein making its way to the brain and liver and the kidney and the eyes and the vascular system. And I'm just curious, in your opinion, are we on the cusp of maybe having access to a vaccine that might be a little bit safer or at least have fewer adverse event.

I agree with you. I agree, actually all those comments. I am very pro vaccine. I've taken all the vaccine schedules like you. I went to India, you probably took extra vaccines. So did I. You know, I took two vaccines.

I actually didn't. But I honestly was being a little bit of a cowboy too.

You're braver than I am. I took the vaccines but for these first generation of vaccines were called genetic vaccines where they're on lipid nanoparticles, that's Pfizer Moderna and Johnson and Johnson. I gotta tell you, this turned out to be too dangerous. They get distributed all into the body, they go into the brain, they go into the heart, they do damage in these organs, they damage blood vessels. We know that Theyyou know they install the genetics to produce the spike protein. And you know that causes blood clotting, it damages blood vessels. So there it's just this whole first wave. Like it's true in many medical products, the first wave doesn't make it. You know, the very first blood thinner to replace Coumadin Xymalaguetran didn't make it. There was some liver failure deaths. And so just like these ones, these ones aren't gonna make it. They're gonna ultimately get pulled. For sure they will. And the newer ones coming along, I think the Lead 1 is Novavax. Now that's a spike protein on a matrix. It's gotten through all the phase two, phase three trials. New England Journal Medicine, 90% vaccine efficacy. Looks like it could be more easily modulated to cover some of the other variants. A sore arm but no systemic effects. Now they've got some booster data. They have actually longer follow up than Pfizer Moderna. It's just a higher quality program all the way around, no genetics involved.

But it's not approved yet in the U.S. is it?

Well, you know, it just got approved in Australia by the tga. It's going to have some ex US markets. But the US should not be dragging their feet on novavax, in my view. I think that should be fronted. And the sooner we can get off Pfizer Moderna JJ and get onto Novavax, I think people can breathe a sigh of relief. My concern is our seniors are now uncovered. We knew that Pfizer Moderna, jj, they just don't last very long, only about three to six months. So our seniors are uncovered right now. That's the risk. You know, vaccinating kids is not in my view a top public health priority because the kids, basically 80% have already had it and they don't get serious illness anyway. But the seniors do. The seniors really get sick. The nursing home patients, I've had so many of my seniors in my practice get sick. They need coverage. And if Novavax came out, everything I know about it right now. Provided the safety holds out, we could easily make a shift and that could be in a sense like a universal booster and we get off the genetic vaccines. Inovio is an interesting technology. That one's farther behind and that is more of a back to a genetic vaccine of a different type. There are really a lot of different vaccines in development and I'm hopeful we're going to get something that's going to have some durability. I don't think anything that's going to last less than a year is going to make it because people are not going to be going in every three months or six months for a shot. It's just not going to work. And the coverage is going to be too spotty.

No. Especially with all these new variants coming out. Yeah, the Inovio, I guess it's just like DNA plasmids and water. There's like nothing else in there. Like even as far as adjuvants that I'm aware of, it's just. It's pretty safe and clean.

I know, but we wouldn't want the DNA coding for the spike protein because once we get back to coding for it, we don't want install the genetic code to produce a dangerous protein in the body. That turns out to. That experiment has been a disaster because the reason is because it's uncontrolled. For some people, they must take up a lot of the genetic material and make a lot of spike protein for a long period of time. And for some people, it's lethal. It's obvious it's lethal within a few days. Whereas if it's a limited spike protein, like I can tell you for novavax, they tested 5 and 25 micrograms. They went with the 5 micrograms. It is a limit. It's like a tetanus shot. If I gave you an overwhelming amount of tetanus toxoid, I could kill you. But if I give you a tetanus shot and it's limited, it doesn't kill anybody and you get immunity. That's kind of the concept with novavax.

Yeah. I think that Inovio actually, despite it having minimal adverse events from the research I've seen on it so far, just because what I do is I just use my. I use an app called Feedly and just type in the search term that I want to get updates for each day. And I've got Inovio as one that I'm following. I know it does contain the plasmid that encodes for the whole length of the spike glycoprotein, but again, like minimal adverse events. So I don't know. I agree with you though. Like novavax seems like like one of the safer ones out there. But regarding the variants, you told me like right before we were going to record, you mentioned that, that you had some updates on Omicron. What's going on with that?

Well, Omnicron is the most mutated of all the variants so far. It took a big jump in mutational status. Remember Alpha, Beta, Gamba, Gamma, you know, they were moving along, inching along in terms of the virus replicates billions of times. It's going to make mistakes. Everybody should know that. There's always variants. We've always had variants in the background, always. We started out with the Wuhan wild type virus and then it kind of quickly mutated to Alpha. When I had it last year, I had Alpha, I was in research, I got genotyped and I knew what I had. But Neeson and colleagues from Mayo Clinic and working with a group called Inference, a research group in Boston, they showed, listen, you get to 25% of the population vaccinated, you're going to allow a dominant variant to move forward. And that's exactly what happened with Delta. The vaccine program is responsible for the Delta variant. And what happened was in Mashtra, India, one of the states, they got to about more than 25% vaccinated and the virus mutated up multiple times, about seven times in the Spike protein. And the Spike protein, a paper by Venkata Krishnan is the first author and from this company Inference and Soundarajiden is the senior author. They showed antigenic escape with Delta. Now with Omicron now we have Venkata Krishnan again as first author, Soundarajan as the senior author from Inference in Cambridge, Massachusetts. They also have an installation in Bengaluru, India and also in Toronto. Those three centers published this most recent paper on Omicron. They showed that it is far and away the most recent mutated variant. It has 26 unique spike protein mutations, 30 spike proteins overall, far more than others. To give you an example, for instance, an Alpha only had four unique Spike protein mutations. Beta only had six, Gamma only had eight. Delta had eight of those. The most most lethal actually was Gamma. Gamma was tough. We didn't have that. That was mainly down in Brazil. We've had a good dose of Delta now, which has been hard. And I can tell you clinically I fought Delta now for months. It's highly contagious, highest transmissibility index of anything we've seen. Original wild type was transmissible index of about 2. Well, with omicron got 26 unique mutations, 10 in the receptor binding domain. We've got three deletions, one insertion, which is very unusual. And it's probably a very dysmorphic receptor binding domain. It probably doesn't bind very well. And so then we had this report come out from the CDC December 10th, where we only had 43 cases in the United States. And we found out that 79% were in fully vaccinated. So Omicron was originally described in fully vaccinated travelers crossing the border of Botswana. Then this report hits from Denmark titled the report status of the SARS CoV2 dominant variant called Omicron in Denmark dated December 13, 2021. You'll find this on the Internet. And here in this report, they are basically describing that we have a situation that there's almost an inversion. So if we look at other variants, if we look at other variants, not Omicron in Denmark, which is a highly vaccinated country, they have tons of COVID because the vaccines don't fully stop. Covid. They had 44,000 cases of fully vaccinated people with COVID 19 out there. It turns out that, you know, it represented 67% of everything they had was in the fully vaccinated. Now with the cron variant, the number is 79% of Omicron is fully vaccinated in Denmark. So we've seen this inversion and now the most interesting thing has happened is our CDC has a program that we can actually. And we, you know, everybody in this field pretty much checks in with it every week. And it's basically a variant. It's called monitoring variant proportions. And we check it every week. Well, they have two filters on it. One of it's called Nowcast. N O W C A S T. The Nowcast on is what the CDC is predicting. So it turns out that the CDC predicted for the week ending December 11th, they predicted 12% omicron. And the week ending December 18th, which is three days ago, the CDC predicted 73% omicron.

That was predicted like 73% of the new cases are Omicron.

Yeah. In the United States, they predicted. Now, when we turn off the CDC prediction algorithm and look at what we have, it turns out none of that's materialized. Omicron, the week ending, most recent week that they have is only less than 1%. So we have a situation where it's clear that the CDC has kind of, in a sense, the Data are in arrears. They'll come forward, but the CDC is way over predicting.

So, like, because I had a headline this morning, Omnicron sweeps across the nation. 73% of new U.S. covid cases. That should actually be modified to say estimated 73%. Right. And you're saying that estimated.

Boy, Omicron's gonna really have to get a head start here to get going. Because Delta is so dominant right now. Our understanding is Delta's got a greater transmissibility than Omicron. I don't see how Omicron. I was on national TV the first day the news that Omicron broke, and I said, listen, I don't see it. How is it gonna outcompete Delta? Delta is so successful, how can Omicron probably get an ecological niche? You know, it wouldn't. It wouldn't have a driver. Now, the one driver it may have is that it looks like it may be more successful in the vaccinated. And if that's the case, you know, most people in the United States took the vaccine. There's not that many unvaccinated people around. So most people have taken the vaccine. And in fact, if Omicron has a selective advantage in the vaccinated, that would be the explanation of how we could start to make a larger ecological niche for itself.

But then if a vaccinated person gets Omicron, they could do the whole early treatment regimen that you talked about and still see some effect from that. Right?

Sure. But so far in Omicron, what the CDC is telling us is that there's almost no pulmonary symptoms. So apparently there's the first US death. It's taken nearly two months for the first US death. First Omicron case, I think was described 6 November, that in fact, you know, there's no pulmonary symptoms. So it's very hard for constitutional symptoms like fever or what have you to be fatal. Now, it may have been a fatal thrombo, a blood clot or something. Yeah.

Maybe not fatal. Still issues. Still issues though, like there's a whole like sperm count, fertility issue. Like there's some long term issues dictating. Even if it's that's kind of asymptomatic or not as severe an infection, you may still want to consider some kind of early treatment. Yeah.

Oh, I agree with you. Listen, I would not underestimate any of these. When Delta first came out, we were thinking it could be milder. We couldn't get a straight story from India. And it turned out Delta was just really hard. I think Delta was even harder than the others. So Omicron could be very serious. You're right. Early treatment, I mean, the principles of early treatment is these, these viruses are going to replicate for 14 days in the body. They're going to rip the body for 14 days. Early treatment can drop it to about four days. The nasal hygiene approach that has the strongest effect on dropping these PCRs to negative. It's amazing. The Chowdhury protocol literally just absolutely decimated the viral load in the nose. And so the virus can't build up to a high count.

I know, look, I've had Covid, but I still, every week I just like with my little nebulizer here on my desktop, I still nebulize. And actually in the morning and in the evenings, I'm one of those weird guys who does like the whole ayurvedic thing where I wake up in the morning and I do like coconut oil pulling and tongue scraping. And I keep this little bottle of hypochlorous acid, just H O C L, which is kind of similar effect to like hydrogen peroxide or, or iodine in terms of similar effects in terms of the antibiotics viral properties of it as a nasal spray. And I just do a couple of squirts of that in the morning and then the evening I go up and brush my teeth, do another couple of squirts, use a nebulizer once a week. Just because I travel so much, just because even though I've had Covid, I'm just, you know, it doesn't hurt. And it takes me two seconds anyways to do this stuff, kind of like brushing my teeth. So. So yeah, I'm kind of staying aware about it.

Right. You know, where I learned that from is I was completely unaware of this field. And I got called by Paul Gossett, he's an anti infective dentist in Chicago. He goes, you know, we've been using these techniques from the very beginning. You mentioned sodium hypochlorite. That's actually.

Yeah, dentists use all the time. It smells like bleach.

Yeah, it's just a few drops of bleach and water. So it turns out when President Trump mentioned bleach, you know, he was, you know, he just couldn't. He should have, you know, had a dentist presented the American Dental association, that's in their recommendations to treat cytomegalovirus and Epstein Barr virus, gingivitis. Anyway, so it kills, obviously. You don't swallow it, you don't splash it around. It's just It's a tiny amount, but now we've moved on to the povidone iodine, which is very safe. You know, by the way, the ophthalmologist.

By the way, what kind of iodine did you just say? You said that really fast. Povidoiodine.

It's called povidone iodine.

Povidone iodine. All right, cool.

P O V I D O N E. Iodine. That's the same thing as betadine. B E T A D I n e. 10% solution is about 5 bucks on Amazon. I just bought one. It just got delivered today, and I can tell you it's a winner. You got to dilute it down quite a bit. You dilute it down to a 1% solution, but the ophthalmologists use that as eye drops, and the sinus doctors have been using that to treat sinusitis and facial types of infections forever. So this is very safe. It's been used in the nose, in the mouth, forever. It's part of medicine. In fact, one doctor said, listen, let me give you my sinusitis sheet. And he gave me how to make a betadine solution. He goes, yeah, I've been doing this my whole practice. He goes, it just turns out that this is now popular because it's Covid and it's so effective against the virus. I said, wow, I just can't believe that I personally had it, and it sat in my nose for three days and I didn't do anything, and it invaded my lungs. I could have avoided a lot of misery if I just would have zapped it in the nose. Yep.

Listen to your dentist, everybody. Hey, you know, I know that you're. You're busy and you're still practicing and you're doing all these interviews and you're getting bombarded by the media, and I'd imagine your stress levels are a little higher. Are you taking care of yourself? Like. Like, do you. Do you. Do you have, like, a fitness regimen? Are you hitting the sauna? Are you. Are you doing anything yourself from a preventive standpoint beyond squirting dental stuff up your nose?

I'll tell you again, I wish I would have done it. I've already had Covid, so I don't need to do anything now because I can't get it again. And the other thing, too, is I've had broad exposure to Delta, so I've had people cough in my face. I've made some house calls, no masks, kids all over me sick. With Delta, you can't get it a Second time. So the natural immunity is wonderful and people just need to trust it. But I'm trying to keep myself in shape. The crisis, because there was such a need for early treatment. And I was able to fill that gap the soonest and the most definitively. Then others helped out greatly. Pierre Cory and the Frontline Critical Care Consortium. Other people came on, but 500 doctors taking care of the country. We're busy. Let me tell you what. The phone is ringing off the hook. So I'm working on personal health the best I can. We got a beautiful day here in Dallas. After you. I've got Lou Dobbs, I've got Laura Ingram, Ingram Engel. Tonight, I'm going to try to squeeze in an hour where I can get out and do something. I had several patients this morning, and I still got to do their notes and handle their issues, and then I'll move into the next day. I really haven't taken a day off since the start of the pandemic. And in many ways, maybe I was just the right person at the right time. Years ago, I was a big marathoner. I had run a marathon in every state in the United States. And. And people said, Dr. McCullough, you know, do you have the stamina and the endurance to do this? And I said, gosh, you know, out of anybody I know, I guess I do. I can just. I just have more work capacity and physical capacity to do it.

Yeah, well, get some walks in the sunshine and man, for me, it's a sauna like every. Seems like, especially because I've been home more since COVID I'm in the sauna like almost every freaking day. Walk everywhere, and then I'll do like, you know, the 20 to 45 minutes, some kind of strength training or high intensity interval training every day. And I'd honestly, like, I'd, you know, a lot of people quit going to the gym during COVID and everything. I got in the best shape of my life, you know, just because I was able to be consistent at home. But, yeah, I mean, in any. I know we're getting ready to wrap up here, but, you know, if I, if I can help you out at all, you know, because I know you're doing a lot of good work. But, you know, my jam is health and fitness and nutrition. So anytime I can help you out, just reach out, man. I know you're doing good work and I want to make sure that you stay healthy yourself. So you know how to get ahold of me anytime you need any tips in that department.

Okay? I will.

Although I'm not gonna run a marathon with you.

Well, listen, it's so important because for COVID 19, it's so clear that people who are fit, in good condition, with good diets, they breeze through it. And people who are obese and unfit, this can be a fatal illness. So if out of anything we've learned now is we've had two years of this, that people do need to take things seriously and be fit. I actually through the first year of the pandemic, I intentionally lost weight and ran even more, thinking I was going to get tagged and I was going to get Covid. And sure enough, I did. And I was glad I developed pulmonary Covid, but I wasn't hospitalized. I even ran on day eight, treatment day six, and I was very short of breath. But you can do that as long as you're not doing of a fever. And just to kind of show America that one can do it now, I was outside, I spent almost the entire time outside. Very important in COVID 19, get outside, do not stay inside, do not wear a mask and keep breathing. Rebreathing the virus, you want to actually reduce the viral reloading.

Yeah, yeah. Well, hopefully even you've inspired all my listeners to go, go sign up for a marathon, you know, and I'm certain that that's the best way to prevent Covid. Right? Go run 26 miles. No, I'm just, I'm just kidding. I personally have become disillusioned with ultra endurance and I actually think there's a law of diminishing returns when it comes to cardiovascular health. But that's a discussion for another day. Peter, thanks for coming on my show, man, and sharing all this stuff with us. It's been incredibly helpful and for people listening in, you know, Peter did, like I mentioned, he had a fantastic kind of long form interview with Joe Rogan and I'll link to that because I think that'd be a good companion interview for you to listen to along with this one. And then I'll also link to his papers on the success and early treatment of COVID 19 and some of these kind of practical ways that you can do early treatment yourself for as we have established already, kind of like pennies on the dollar for this stuff. And I'll just link to all the resources as well as all the other podcasts I've done about this whole jam. If you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com DrPeter that's BenGreenfieldFitness.com Doctor Peter. Peter, thanks for coming on the show, man.

Thanks for having me.

All right, I'm Ben Greenfield, along with Dr. Peter Mercola signing out from BenGreenfieldFitness.com have an amazing week. In compliance with the FTC guidelines, please assume the following about links and posts on this site Most of the links going to products are often affiliate links, of which I receive a small commission from sales of certain items. But the price is the same for you, and sometimes I even get to share a unique and somewhat significant discount with you. In some cases, I might also be an investor in a company I mention. I'm the founder, for example, of Kion llc, the makers of Kion branded supplements and products, which I talk about quite a bit. Regardless of the relationship, if I post or talk about an affiliate link to a product, it is indeed something I personally use support and with full authenticity and transparency recommend. In good conscience, I personally vet each and every product that I talk about. My first priority is providing valuable information and resources to you that help you positively optimize your mind, body and spirit. And I'll only ever link to products or resources, affiliate or otherwise, that fit within this purpose. So there's your fancy legal disclaimer.