Vape Pens, Hair Growth Serums, Fixing The Pineal Gland & C60 (The Next Great Longevity Molecule).

On this episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness Podcast.

I think as a whole, what we're doing is going to be the next shift in human longevity. He would put his front paws down on the ground and literally just pull himself forward until his hind legs plopped down and hit the ground. It was horrifically depressing. Two weeks later and said, dude, this actually works. And I said, yeah, I know. He goes, you're a moron. Why are you not putting this out? Why are you not sharing this with me?

That's kind of what I'm wondering. Why aren't you a billionaire, dude? Health, performance, nutrition, longevity, ancestral living, biohacking, and much more. My name is Ben Greenfield. Welcome to the show. All right, folks, getting into C60 today, this anti aging molecule I get asked a lot about. We're going to cover it with this brilliant guy who came to my house for this episode. We are recording.

All right.

We are recording. I can hear your voice. It's angelic. Everyone's voice is angelic when they're sitting at my kitchen table. Hey, hey, Everybody listening in. That was the rollicking, lovely, angelic voice of Ian. Not Ian. Ian Mitchell. Although it's spelled I A N. It.

Is, yeah, same spelling. Mom's an artist.

Yeah, that's effed up, dude.

You can't argue as a toddler.

All right, so to give a little context for those of you listening, I was at Paleo fx and a bunch of people were telling me, like, you got to meet this brilliant researcher, inventor, like mad scientist guy named Ian Mitchell. And eventually I was introduced to you there, former podcast guest of mine, Dr. Barry Morgellon, the crazy Chinese energy worker guy. He interviewed, or he introduced us, and we've kind of been texting back and forth, but it turns out, like, probably the thing that I get all the feedback from folks that you're most knowledgeable in is this stuff called C60. I've never done a podcast about C60. It's something that I get a lot of questions about, like, what's C60, what's Buckminster Fullerene, carbon 60, et cetera. And I've never, aside from a very brief stint, like four years ago, just kind of ordering some online and seeing what it was used it.

Yeah, the field has changed a lot.

You sent me a little bit, and I want to learn more about this stuff. But I keep hearing about C60 over and over again and researching this book I'm working on about longevity. It also came up there in terms of some really compelling studies on longevity and age reversal. And so I figured, what the hell, let's do this. So you actually, for those of you who are wondering, yes, I am sitting here at my kitchen table, we just did a little vasper workout.

Yeah. Very, very int. Fast for workout.

Yeah. What'd you think of that thing?

My God. Wow. When they say you can pack in 3, 3 hours of exercise into 21 minutes, I now comprehend why they say that.

Yeah. Yeah. And so if any of you listening haven't used this thing before, it like puts full body or not full body, but arm and leg based, almost like Katsu device, like blood flow restriction, arm and leg. And you felt that because I put those straps on you, then it fills them up with ice, like ice water. So you got cold, you got compression, you're barefooter, you have socks on. So you're grounded and earthed on these metal pads. And then it's a full body exercise machine and you do 21 minutes of high intensity interval training.

Yeah, it was kind of like being strapped into a medieval torture device. It was like the machine from the Princess Bride, you know, works though. Yeah, it's doing something. Yeah.

And you were here last night too. We did the sauna. We had a fun dinner with my brother. And during dinner you just kept like talking about stuff and I'm making these mental notes, I'm like, okay, we gotta talk about that in the podcast. Gotta talk about this in the podcast. Like one thing that you mentionedand we'll get into C60, you guys, don't worry. But one thing that you mentioned, I think this was when we were in the sauna. We weren't actually smoking weed or CBD or anything like that. We were just, we were chatting and vape pens came up and you talked about how you figured out how to basically like make vape pens, not burn the lungs or not have the nasty amounts of propylene glycol or whatever in them. What exactly did you do with the vape pen thing?

So it was kind of an interesting puzzle. I had talked to a California about it a few years back and they, they were trying to arrive at a way to do vaping that wouldn't be detrimental. And I really, their, their focus was on CBD and I really didn't know a tremendous amount about it at the time, but I researched a little bit and kind of nudged them in the right direction and basic idea was to, to pre lace their vape juice, as it's termed, with compounds that would block the metabolization or the, you know, kind of when you metabolize things, sometimes it burns a lot of compounds out of your brain. So in this case, cholinesterase precursors and things like that, so that it would pre lace all of the compounds so that it didn't cause any drop in your normal physiological levels.

Of choline.

Yeah, of choline, which works like a champ because then there's no after effects where people get headaches or anything like that. And then to use things like pulmonary surfactants, which is what you'd use with a premature baby, because it opens up the lungs, the alveoli expand.

To clarify, not a premature baby who's vaping.

Well, what I'm recommending here is that all premature babies vape. Right. So the basic idea is you open up the lungs because it seemed like there was kind of an arms race going on in terms of how people would stack on. We've got 2,000 milligrams, we've got 5,000 milligrams, which is kind of pointless because if you really break it down, it doesn't matter how much you're getting in your system if you can't utilize it. Right. So it's all about bioavailability. So if you can figure out a way to upregulate the bioavailability, then you can use less and get a higher yield. So. And that's exactly what that did in terms of using a pulmonary. So you can use, say 200 milligrams and get the equivalent input biologically from what you'd Normally get from 1000mg. And so you don't have to do as much to get the same yield.

You're saying like 200 milligrams to like a CBD versus a thousand milligrams?

Yeah, exactly. That's a lot.

1,000 milligrams.

Yeah, it is a lot. Yeah, it's a whole lot.

Do you take cbd?

I do.

How much do you use?

Just a couple hundred milligrams.

Yeah.

So in order to physiologically get the.

Effects, dose is considered to be like 10 on a lot of these bottles.

Yeah. If you look at the literature on that, you really don't get the kind of cognitive impact that you're trying to get until you cross the threshold of about 150 to 200 milligrams. And I, I am obviously a, you know, shrinking violet with a 250 pound frame. So I have to take a little bit more than your average. You're a big old boy. Yes.

But I have found the same thing. Like, Like I was talking with Hunter McIntyre. I did a podcast with him. He's a pro Spartan athlete and crossfitter. And I think he, he said like his, his minimum dose is something like 200 milligrams.

Yeah, exactly. And to get the right physiological impact because despite the fact that our frames may be slightly different sizes, our brains are just about the same weight.

Yeah, well, I sleep like a baby. I took 200 last night after we retired.

Yeah, that's actually, that's when I get the most benefit from it, is because I don't generally sleep a ton, but that kind of, that takes the edge off.

Yeah, yeah. How'd you sleep last night out there by the cheese?

Oh my God. Fantastic.

Check it out. Roosters didn't like you.

It was great. Yeah, no EMF stress. I think I could be a little woo woo fringe for that. But my guess, God, that felt fantastic.

Electrically appears super clean. I catch a lot of flack for that. People raise an eyebrow that some of the research on calcium channels and emf, but all I can tell you is I sleep and feel like a million bucks when I'm at home.

It's completely legit. I mean, if you read the latest data on it. I think as a whole, the US is one of the only countries that doesn't acknowledge the fact that you can dysregulate calcium channel flow. Just, I mean, it's what, 600 times the input available from EMF stress that you actually need to modulate ion flow.

Yeah. Well, speaking of controversial topics, another thing I want to talk to you about before we dive into the topic of the day, which is C60 is, I think we were talking about fluoride. Fluoride came up last night at dinner. We were talking about fluoridation and not necessarily getting into the whole conspiracy theory about how government is using it for mind control, which is arguable, but the idea that fluoride can actually accumulate in, for example, thyroid tissue or even calcify the pineal gland. And we were chatting about how, I think I mentioned a lot of people who use plant medicine. For example, if your pineal gland is calcified, you're not going to produce much dmt. So many people who may have pineal gland dysfunction might be using something like whatever, ayahuasca or five MEO or something like that, and actually not feeling it the way that they should because their pineal gland is essentially calcified. And then you said, oh, I have a way to descale. Descale the pineal gland.

Tell me about that. So it's not research. I did, it was research out of Russia about 15 years ago, but I co opted it. And when we were doing the initial formulations of one of our first round products for animals, because most mammals have the same thing and we're all drinking the same water and hence have the same after effects, if you use a combination of peptides, you can actually descale that. And that's one of the things, I mean, obviously anything in that whole glandular secretions, they're kind of important because when you look at nanogram and microgram quantities having the same sort of just tremendous effects on your biology, you're eliciting huge responses with these very, very minimal tweaks in dosing internally. So one of our first runs was to use ala Gluas gly. Right. And that was the. The compound. And we put it in as a peptide. Yeah, it's a peptide. So we just had this special tetrapeptide formulated, which at the time was kind of funny because the first round of having it formulated, I think the price quote I got back for one gram was 34,000 bucks, which I thought was a mistake at the time. And I called the company and the woman was polite and said, oh, but that includes shipping. So I'm assuming they would have delivered it in Alexis.

A gram. A gram is pretty spendy to ship. But a lot of peptides, the dosage is micrograms.

It is, admittedly, yeah. And we ended up using 50 micrograms was kind of the dosing that we ended up going for. But we included that in the first round of products and it had a really pronounced effect on the animals. And I think a great deal of the impact in the efficacy of the first round of products was because of that. Because it just. We weren't just addressing some of the components that you can hit with C60 and some of the other inflammatory components that we were hitting with proteolytic enzymes. We're using those tetrapeptides to really modulate things at a secretion level for your endocrine system.

Can you buy those commercially now? Like those?

Yeah, yeah. In the past decade, since I started playing with all this stuff, a lot of that's changed. And you can.

What's that peptide called again?

It's a pithylon or a pidolon, depending on the site you go to. Really?

I've got that in my refrigerator back there as. As two 20 day cycles on it. Based on the conviction protocol. Yeah, I didn't realize it had an effect on the pineal gland.

Yes.

That's very interesting. Okay, so I've already got it.

Yeah, using it, that's the thing. And everybody who's.

Twice a year, 10 to 20 day protocol. I forget what the dosage is per day. I want to say it's something like 10 milligrams a day. And there's human trials in Russia showing reversal of all cause mortality with that approach. That's just like an insulin syringe subcutaneously.

Yeah, that's why we included it for animals. Because one of the things we had a patent released, I guess three, three, four months ago. But we showed that what we'd effectively done was created a buffering solution so that we could buffer most compounds against degradation for the stomach acids and also for heat. So, you know, we, even with proteins, we're blocking denaturing up to 80 degrees Celsius, you know, which is kind of a trick. And also it changes the levels that you actually have to utilize a lot of different compounds. So I'll give you a link to the patent, but it's. It really changes the amounts that you actually need to get into your system because it'll take it all the way through your GI tract down into your small intestine so you can actually get access to it.

You've got a lot of patents. Yeah. I found your patent page online because I was looking up some stuff to talk about, but I didn't really introduce you that comprehensively. And I'm sure people are now wondering who the f you. Are you playing with peptides and vape pens? So how do you describe yourself? Are you like a researcher? Scientist?

Yeah, research scientist. That's kind of my. The current incarnation of what I'm doing. And right now it's all biological puzzles. And I, I have the inkling that probably in another three, four years, most of it will be looking at hardcore physics because the things that I've been working on biologically seem to be tending towards availing themselves for more change based on frequency response. Like a lot of the cancer research we've done. One of those patents was on an antimetastatic therapeutic for cancer. And we have effectively shut down the ability for cancer to metastasize. Now I don't. It's not a cure because if you have a primary mass or some distal site that already has mass that's vascularized, so it has its own really regulated good blood flow, you can't necessarily just shut the thing down and kill it there. But I can say pretty definitively that Once you start ingesting that compound, metastatic behavior stops, like cancer will not spread and metastasis kills.

You mean once you start ingesting C60.

It'S not just C60. So kind of the trick there, if you look at the patent, it's three basic compounds, Right. So it's a lipid, which is just a fat, and that's bound to the C60 and that allows it to pass through cell membranes. So it's kind of in effect giving it the all access pass.

And is that why C60 is often combined with olive oil, like as a carrier?

Yeah, exactly, that is. And you know, in olive oil, it's a great carrier. It allows for membrane swapping on the cell surface really readily. Oleic acid swaps out with normal somatic cells really, really readily. But there are other things, like coconut oil, if you want to do different things and elicit a different response in the body, not surprisingly, different oils break down in different components of the body and are metabolized to different areas of the body. So if you want to do something that's going to modulate your liver, obviously you'd use an MCT because that's going to go into your liver and fractionate there. And if you want to use something else, you might use EPA or DHA because those kind of things break down and move to a different area if you're trying to elicit a response in your brain. You know, I got. Subentanoic acid is what you really want.

Right. So the carrier oil that C60 is delivered in would influence the site of action within the body completely.

Okay. Yeah. It's like using a different key for a different lock.

Okay. And I want to get more into C60 and especially C60 in cancer and how that's affecting metastasis of cancer momentarily. But back to you, your research scientist. Do you have like a lab or.

Yeah, I do. I have.

What a day job actually look like?

Yeah, I have a really, a really great lab just north of Tulsa in the great state of Oklahoma. And so I travel back and forth between Austin, where we have the company headquartered in Tulsa.

Okay, so your carbon 60 company is in Austin and then your lab where you're doing all this mad scientist stuff with vape pens and descaling the pineal gland and C60 and all that jazz. That's in Oklahoma.

Yeah, that's kind of where the crazy magic happens. Yeah. And mad scientist is I think, the moniker that's usually thrown out because I'm constantly playing with things like, like a couple Weeks ago, it was building a microwave cannon to see if I could knock out cancer cells in situ.

Really?

Yeah, really? Yeah. Well, because you can get them to pass through normal tissue, but then because of the C60 being inside the cells, you can get the C60 to oscillate and then create hyperthermic effects where you can target specific cells. And because of the way we set up the anti metastatic therapeutic, it goes in and binds to the cancer cells. Cancer is nutrient primal, so it's going to suck things out of your system fastest. And. And its favorite food is sugars. So this, the anti metastatic is bound.

Most of the time. There's a few variations that paradoxically, this upsets a lot of people in the keto community. Like some forms of breast cancer, for example, eat up ketones instead of glucose.

Yeah, exactly. Well, and it's also. It's kind of. I have a great respect for it after having been wrangling with it for quite a few years, because it metabolically pivots on the fly as it needs to, to make sure it can ensure its own survival. Yeah. And so. But kind of a broad stroke, I think. We've tested 22 different cancers and we were able to zap them all. And the basic gist was, you know, you take a lipofulllerine, which is just C60 adducted to a fat, whichever fat you're playing with, depending on what you're.

Talking about, that's the definition of a lipofullerine. You take a C60 molecule and bind it attached to a fat. That's called lipofullerine.

Exactly. Yeah. So you take that and then you hook that to a sugar. And so I did that through a different type of thermal catalysis in general, just used heat to bind it in a very specific way. And then once you have that, and it's actually, it's oddly specific because you literally have to have the right particulate size, the right thermal curve, hit all the right gradients. It's kind of crazy. And as fate would have it, it just was a bit of a luck out. I nailed it. Quite literally the first shot out of the gate, which was, in retrospect, knowing how easy it is to not get it now, after having tried to find tons of different ways to work on it, it makes one kind of ponder the idea that literally the first shot out of the gate, you know, got it right then, as opposed to probably hundreds of other approaches and not able to get the same response. So pretty lucky.

Is this what you went to School for, like, study chemistry?

Yeah, I had a full ride. Started out studying chemistry and then shifted over and studied jazz performance and. Really? Yeah. Well, to me, it's effectively the same thing, right. It's all about resonance and it's all about combinatory relationships. So chemicals and admittedly, I have a little bit of a knack for it, but chemicals and music are the same sorts of things. You have bass tones that you play with, and then you have to look at the relationships and you can force it. I mean, you can create some sort of redox reaction and you can get something to go through, but it doesn't mean it's elegant. Right. And so what I'm always trying to do is just like music, you can play two notes together and they can be discordant or they can be harmonic, but what you're really trying to do is you're trying to find an elegant solution. And so that's. I think that's the crux of what I really play with the most, is looking at all these different compounds and saying, well, how should this function? What can we actually do with this? What kind of response can we elicit that's going to be sort of magical? And it really is. It's more art than science. I mean, when you really start to break it down and you have the basics, it's just like music, you know, you have to work at getting your chops up. You make sure that you technically have the capacity to do that sort of exercise. But then beyond that, it's really a matter of how can I make this move in an artful way? You know, this is the end goal. I'm trying to do something here, and I want to get a certain response. How do I do that in a beautiful fashion that's elegant. Because nature truly is nothing if not elegant and efficient. It's kind of brutal sometimes, especially if you look at cancer, it's a really very, very brutal function, but it wastes no steps. You know, it really. It serves. If on an individual basis, it's kind of tragic. But on a. You know, if you look at it, my dad was an anthropology professor, and if you look at kind of the overarching impact on a society, it's actually really beneficial because it's, you know, thinning out the herd for people who are marginalized and giving those same resources and reallocating, giving them to a younger part of the planet.

From a pure evolutionary standpoint, that's what cancer is doing.

Yeah. And, you know, it's kind of society's changed A lot. I mean, we're no longer, you know, just tribal folks. So, I mean, obviously we're cooking in a kitchen here as opposed to, you know, outside over a fire. So things have changed, and it's not as relevant as it once was, but just same sort of thing applies to, you know, pathogens and, you know, the discovery of antibiotics. I think as a whole, what we're doing with C60 is going to be the next shift in human longevity is my. After doing, you know, a decade of work on this.

Yeah, I want to talk about that. Do you. Do you still make music? Did you actually have a career as a jazz musician?

I did. I did have a career as a jazz musician for quite a while, and, yeah, I still practice.

Did you play the trumpet?

No. Sax. Jazz.

Okay.

Yeah. Jazz saxophone? Yeah.

Nice. You and Bill Clinton.

Yeah. Slightly different level, but yes.

I just had to name the one famous saxophone player, meaning that.

Yeah, that Bill Clinton was from the Simpsons.

Okay, so hand me that bottle that you have over there. So what'd you just do before we started recording? Tell me what you did and what this stuff is. I'm holding and. Because I want to try whatever you just did with the coffee and the. And so what is this bottle?

Okay, so that is revive. That is our. What I think is the.

The best product that we put out says Lipoful. And you just did a very good job defining that. So we've got C60 in here. And what is it, olive oil?

Yeah, it's in an olive oil base.

Okay. And then serratiopeptidase.

Yeah, which is serrapeptaseratiopeptidaseratiopeptidase.

That's a lot of times found in joint sport compounds.

Yeah, it is. And the basic idea is that was actually a drug in Japan for quite a few years, and then they downregulated it to a supplement because they found that they couldn't get enough of it to be bioavailable. And what I was alluding to in our patent that was just released is we were able to very definitively show that, yeah, it works like a champ if you can actually deliver it to the body and get it, you know, able to be used where it needs to.

And then carnosine, which I know helps deliver fatty acids into the cell. Is that why you put that in there?

No, actually, that was really for kind of reparative, restorative stuff after the fact. It's got. Most of the things in there have a couple of effects. It's not just a one off okay.

And then Coq 10.

Yeah, and then Coq 10. Because it's gonna upregulate a lot of cell function.

Alright, so how did you do this? I have my tablespoon here.

Okay. So the way I do it is I shake it up and make sure everything things back in suspension.

Okay.

Then I shake, shake, shake, shake. Put it in the, put it in the handy spoon there.

Okay. And do I put this in the coffee?

No, actually I'm gonna use the coffee chaser. Exactly. So put a little coffee before you put it in your mouth. Put a little coffee in your mouth.

Okay, hold on.

And this is for those of you at home. Platinum.

That's key on coffee cokes, just so you know.

Okay, Take a little swig of that.

Okay.

All right. Swish it around. Put another little bit of coffee in your mouth and chase it down.

I don't have to leave it in my mouth like a liposomal kind of thing.

Not at all.

So it says two tastes. Should I take two, Two tablespoons? Okay. So as I'm doing this, the more the merrier. Tell me chairs, tell me what C60 is.

Okay, so C60. Buckminster fullerene. Buckyballs. It's literally, it's a soccer ball in shape made of carbon atoms. So it's an allotrope, which just means another form of carbon. And it was discovered in 1985. The three guys who discovered it all got Nobel prizes for it because it was the first new form of carbon in a couple hundred years. And at the time, because they had found this, they were actually looking for things in outer space and they saw a signature that they couldn't recognize. And they finally figured out that it was actually 60 carbon atoms grouped. And so they brought it to a researcher who was a mathematician and said, you know, what is the shape of this? And he said, it's a football. And so it is. It's literally, it's a soccer ball. It's a truncated icosahedron, so, made out of carbon atoms. And it's got a bunch of different properties because of that configuration. It's very stable, it's very, very strong. And a lot of research was done early on. There was kind of a glut of people trying to jump on the bandwagon and do the research. But due to a couple of oddball reports that came out, people didn't think it was going to be very beneficial biologically. So it really kind of of crunched everything down for a couple of decades and the research didn't really move forward. And then in 2012, a report was released, and I'm sure you've seen this. It was Fathih Musa was the fellow in France, and they had done a study on the effect they were doing earlier in LD50, which is a lethal dosing 50. You're trying to figure out what kills the median percentage of the population when you introduce a new compound to an animal. And so in this case, they gave it to rats. And the rats lived 90% longer on average. And they actually sacrificed the last 90%. 90% longer. Yeah. And so they found that the control group died. Then they had an olive oil experimental group, it died, and then the C60 group died. But, yeah, 90% extension in lifespan on average. And it had a bunch of other oddball properties, too. Like normally when you're in your lab and you're knocking out, you know, your lab rats or mice, you do it with carbon tetrachloride. And the rats could handle more than twice the normal amount of carbon tetrachloride because it buffers hepatically and renally. So your kidney and your livers are buffered from oxidative stress and from toxins. It'll handle. You know, if somebody went to the hospital for an acute toxic threat, they'd give them activated charcoal. Right, because it binds to toxins and it takes it out of their system. Well, the same things apply here because of the carbon, but at a much more enhanced volume because of the spherical configuration on the surface. So you just have this maximal binding volume for toxins. So it binds the toxins and carries them out of your system. And oddly enough, it also does a similar function with radiation. So you end up with a huge protection against.

Really?

Yeah, radiation.

So you could use something like this, for example, for airline travel, when you're getting exposed to the X rays and the solar radiation, etc. Interesting. Okay, so C60 is not something that the body makes itself. This is a molecule that is synthesized in a lab as buckminsterfullerene or as carbon 60, bound to an oil and then delivered via supplemental form as lipofluorine.

Yeah, exactly. Now, typically, it's found in nature. It's been around since the Big bang. So it's 13.8 billion years old. But it only occurs at. At kind of the intersection of a couple of different factors. A vacuum, lightning strikes. Occasionally, you can get it at, you know, lightning strikes without a vacuum. But generally, like when we make it in our lab, we have, you know, a chamber, and we'll depressurize it so we put a real high vacuum on it and then introduce helium. So it's got an inert atmosphere. And then you take two carbon graphite rods and blast them together, usually driven by an arc welder. And the resulting explosion, you sieve it out, and you get about 3 to 7% C60 out of all the soot. It's very cool. And the equipment looks like. Looks like something that should be in Back to the Future. Kind of looks like you're.

That's pretty sick.

Yeah, you're driving. You're driving something.

That's just how everybody makes it. Like, because I started to look around, like there are. It's kind of like CBD. Like, there's a lot of C60 websites.

Like, oh, yeah, there are a bunch now.

Common C60 health and C60 this and that. So. So are all these labs spread across the country, across the world, pretty much doing the same thing, making the same C60?

No, they're not, actually. At least not through the same method. Now they're making C60. But I can tell you experimentally, because I've tested a lot of it from different laboratories. It's kind of peculiar in that some of the methods, like the plasma arc method is one way. The carbon arcs that we're using is one way. There's a flame synthesis method, and they all have their kind of pros and cons. The plasma arc method, the color is different. And one of, you know, and you can attribute that to particulate size, or you can attribute it to, you know, different configurations on the surface. It's. It reacts differently biologically. And I. And I'm not sure, you know, if you run. We have an HPLC in the lab, and when you run a spec on it, it pops up as, hey, it's C60. But I can tell you, you know, experientially, it reacts differently in your body. And so I'm not sure exactly what the difference is, but I can tell you that there's definitively a difference.

Okay.

Not to say that it gets any better or worse effect. It just. You feel different. My personal favorite flavor of it is from a carbon arc. And, you know, we make some, but we buy a lot from different labs all over the world, you know, some in the States, some in Europe. And the carbon arc variety seems to function the most. And also, like in Fathi Moose's study, that's what they did. They bought it from a group out of the States. We did a similar rodent study where.

The rodents were 90% longer.

Yeah, we did A similar thing. I was actually looking for inflammatory response, but we used P53 knockout routes. And those are the ones that have their tumor suppressor genes. Yeah, screwed rats. Yeah. So those are the very. Unfortunately, yeah, aesthetically challenged because they have lumps all over their body. Very screwed rats that idiopathically just present with spontaneous formations of cancers. And ours, oddly enough, didn't do that and they live 93% longer.

So these are rodents that are supposed to get cancer. You give them C60, then you get cancer.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

What's going on there? What exactly is happening?

Well, so cancer, in order to proliferate, you've got to have a dysregulation in the energy level intracellularly, specifically in the mitochondria. Right. You've got to dysregulate the energy level. You can't kill the thing, but you have to suppress its energy. And you also have to use a type of paracrine signaling. And Johns Hopkins in 2017 released a paper where they had noted that they had identified IL6 and IL8 as the paracrine signaling cytokines that cancer was using to promote metastasis. And luckily we had already been filed for a couple years for our patent because we had seen the same thing in my lab. And it was really good to have that backed up because cancer co ops your body's own immune system and uses it to signal spreading. So if you crush the cytokine levels and really precipitously make those things fall, then there's no signaling mechanism to spread, which is why our anti metastatic does a really good job. The other function, as I alluded to earlier, was if you downregulate the mitochondrial function enough and the energy level goes low enough, your etc drops, you don't get enough ATP, then cancer can proliferate, can't kill you, but it has to wound you effectively. But if you keep the levels upregulated, it doesn't allow it to spread. And so we've done testing and our boost was roughly 18% on the low end to 58% on the high end of an uptick in ATP. And that was just with. Actually, that was with the serum that you just took.

The other serums, this stuff I just took called revive.

Yeah, that's the one. Yeah. So that was just a mild uptick in comparison to the rates that we've been able to get since then. And so, you know, it's constantly growing and changing. We're trying to research, I mean, we really, as a whole C360 health. We effectively think of ourselves as a research company. You know, we have products that support it, but really it's all research based.

Okay, what do I notice? Okay, so let's say I wanted to use something like this as an anti cancer strategy or a life extension strategy. Would I notice anything from like what I just did, like these couple of tablespoons with the coffee. Is there an effect, acute effect on cognition, on exercise performance, anything like that?

Not after two tablespoons. It's going to have to build up. You're going to have to reach a certain degree of homeostasis in your body. If your cells have enough of it. Yeah. You'll notice a pronounced effect. Now just to be clear, I would not use that as a cancer prevention strategy. As a prevention strategy. Our anti metastatic agent, it's great as a preventative.

What's your anti metastatic agent? Is it a different one?

It is. It's different, yeah. And it's what's on that? It's similar configuration but it has sugars in it.

Okay.

And the sugars. Cancers are attracted to the sugars. They pull it in so they actually.

It's like a Trojan horse.

It's exactly what it is. We jokingly call it the cupcake of doom.

What's that stuff called?

We actually just call it anti M. But it's not.

That's on your website too?

No, it's not. It's not on the market yet. We're actually thinking about putting that out as a supplement in the next couple of months. Yeah. Which will be, which will be hopefully profound and make a big difference.

A lot of people listening to the show are interested in anti cancer type of compound. So that's very interesting.

Well, there are a lot of people who do it prophylactically for that reason right now, even before it's out and about on the market.

What else would I notice from taking this stuff?

Cognitively there is a shift. It takes a few weeks, but what happens is you start pumping out new neurons at a rate of about 2 to 3 to 1 relative to NGF1. So Neural Growth Factor 1, it kicks out new neurons a lot more rapidly. Rapidly. And also the morphology of the neurons is kind of odd in that normally you've got your soma at the center and then you have your arm spanning out to the end of the axon and they morphologically shift so that that span is two to three times larger. So you get the proliferation rate of 2 to 3x and then the actual span to the end of the axon.

You've actually looked at this?

Yeah, there's some really great data on it coming out of Japan. I think I'll send you some links on it. I know it's really when you start getting into this, that's why I said earlier that I think this is really the thing that's going to push our lifespans forward because it's not a steady curve. It doesn't go up just at one incline. You end up with these points of inflection. The term anthropologically is punctuated equilibrium. You have points where it spikes up and then it plateaus off, which is the introduction of antibiotics, good sanitation, things like that. They make our lifespan collection collectively jump up. And I really, you know, this is, my money is on this pony more.

Than like let's say NAD or telomerase activator like TAM818 or any of these sexy anti aging compounds people are talking about.

Yeah, Tam818 I haven't played with. Personally I think that's Bill Andrews thing.

Yeah, Sierra Sciences.

Yeah. And that, you know, he seems to be a very sharp guy and I'm.

Sure I interviewed him.

Yeah. And I'm sure that there is a lot of validity to that and I don't think it's a, an either or. Really. My guess would be that it's more of a combinatory effect because when we're trying to elicit some sort of different response biologically, you can't just address it with chemicals. You can't just address it with naturopathic stuff. You've got to look at the totality of the person and go, okay, so we're physical, chemical, biochemical, magnetic, electromagnetic and you have to address all those different things. So I don't think it's going to be a one shot solution.

That's why an anti aging approach, just like a, an Alzheimer's approach or a cancer approach is always multimodal.

Yeah, exactly. And so for me personally I do a baseline of C60, but then I do PRP stem cells, other compounds, a lot of nad, a lot of nmn. I think I haven't actually used nr, but I'm sure at some point I probably will.

I'm not convinced that if you're using NAD and nmn, you need to.

Yeah, and I actually would agree if I thought I really needed it, I'd be doing it right now. But you know, I have a pretty consistent regimen where I do NMN and nad.

And for an anti aging stack like that you would definitely throw C60 into the mix 100%. Like Epitalon.

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And I mean, that's really a lot of this stems from. That's what I was trying to do at the very beginning a decade ago was, you know, or closing in on a decade. It's a little over eight years ago. Was trying to figure out how to shunt biological aging. And then after you do that, you start looking at it and go, well, if I'm going to try and increase the health of an organism, what better way to do that than to literally roll the clock back?

Yeah, you told me last night I should give it to my dogs 100%. And then I went to your website and you have a whole pet section of the website. What's going on with dogs?

Well, biologically, we're all mammals, so this pretty much affects everything with fur. So if you've got fur or care about something that has fur.

I don't have much fur.

Yeah, well. Well use C60. So you got a good head of hair there, though. I do, yeah. So with my dogs, you know, that was the first thing I tested on myself and my partner at the company. He's done canine rescue for the better part of 30 years now. And we both took it ourselves before we gave it to our dogs. But then as soon as we knew that it was safe, we gave it to our dogs. And both of our dogs at the time hit a greyhound who had been hit by a car, and he rescues greyhounds. And it made a tremendous difference in the dog's mobility. And with my dog, he was a great Pyrenees golden. Retrospect.

That was the stuff with the serrapeptidase in it.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And that's one of the real sweet spots is, you know, not to digress, but the basic idea was C60 drops, the inflammatory response. But you still have some hot spots in your joints. If you get the serrapeptase in there, it will find its way to those spots. And it actually, it's a derivative from silkworms. Yeah, it's a silkworm enzyme and they use it to break down cocoons.

Actually, I. I don't think I've talked about this before on the podcast, but I've. I'm putting it into a new joint support formula that I'm working on for Kion. Like serrapeptidase is or a form of. That is one ingredient in the capsule rolling out.

It's great, powerful stuff. It really is. And, yeah, I mean, that's. That's why silkworms use it because they want to come out. And so when you have those hot spots left, even after you drop the cytokine levels and your inflammatory responses go down, the serrapeptase finds its way to that and then actually eats the scar tissue and breaks it down and moves into your lymph. So with this compound, you're structurally remodeling the inside of your joints every time you take it. So it goes in and knocks out a little bit. A little bit, A little bit, so that you're left with actually less structural media there to get inflamed every time you move.

And so you just give like a tablespoon to your. To your dog, your cat, or your.

Pet in the morning? Exactly. Well, yeah, cats, a lot less, you know, like a half a teaspoon, my dogs. The one who was a great Pyrenees golden retriever mix, he was structurally not as sound as you would hope a dog would be just because of breeding, but it made a huge difference. He had gotten to the point where he would try and hop up on the bed with me, and he'd have to put his front paws up on the bed and pull himself up. And then when he wanted to, to get down, he would put his front paws down on the ground and literally just pull himself forward until his hind legs plopped down and hit the ground. It was horrifically depressing. So then after I started giving him the C60, which was the companion 60 is what we called it when it actually went to market, which was a couple years after, I guess about three or four years after I had started giving it to him, it was great. Within two weeks, he was running and jumping up on the bed and then turning around and jumping off the bed and in. And I would say definitively bought, I don't know, two, three years of time, which for me was great.

You've got this thing called a hair growth serum.

What's that? Dr. So hair is not something your body preferentially really worries about all that much. It kind of is more concerned with survival and your cells functioning and neural function and things like that, and cardiac function. But follicular cells, if you trigger them from a telogen resting phase or, you know, a catagen phase back into an antigen growth cycle, they will do what they do. And really, you know, you can, you can look at dihydrotestosterone conversion rates, but my take was a little different. I figured if you could upregulate mitochondrial function inside follicular cells, they would do what they want to do, which is just Pump out hair. And sure enough, that. That is actually how that works.

So you take it orally or you actually apply topically.

Topically?

Really?

Yeah, it's just transdermal. So very simple. Yeah. And it was actually that came about because my daughter walked in one day and said, dad, your hairline's receding. And I thought very narcissistically, well, that's not happening. So I rolled out to the lab and whipped it up and literally I left it on a shelf. I just regrew my hair and didn't think about it and left it on a shelf for three years. And I was talking to a friend of mine and I said the same thing. And he was very balding at the time. And he said, wait, wait, wait, roll that back. You know. You did a what? And I said, yeah, I made this thing and regrew my hair and dropped the hairline. He said, do you still have it? I said, yeah, sure. And he said, send it to me. So I sent it to him and he started regrowing his hair. And he texted me two weeks later and said, dude, this actually works. And I said, yeah, I know. He goes, you're a moron. Why are you not putting this out? Why are you not sharing this with me?

That's kind of what I'm wondering. Why aren't you a billionaire, dude?

You know, sadly, maybe you are.

You got a sick Ford Mustang out there in the driveway, wife just backed into with her Dodge Ram.

Hence, hence the name Ram.

Huge dents in your Mustang. Sorry about that.

No worries. It's all good. Yeah, that's the Ram. It really lived up to the name. It's never really actually been a focus. I mean, that's for better or worse. I really. I love helping people. I love solving puzzles. It really. That's what drives me. And you know, I think if. If I were probably wedged into a different arena, maybe I would focus on that. But it really isn't. It's not what does it for me.

Okay, so I have a question for you. This stuff's supposed to be, from what I understand, a pretty potent antioxidant and anti inflammatory. Are you concerned at all about some of the research they've done on synthetic vitamin C and vitamin E, like blunting the hormetic response to exercise? Or would we be concerned with synthetically shutting down inflammation too much?

Yeah, I am actually concerned with that. Personally, I take it in a way that I elicit a hormesis, a hormetic response. I try and not do it completely regularly. I Cycle it a bit. As a whole, it's proving out to be a selective antioxidant though, which is different. Kind of like molecular hydrogen. Right. And there's a ton of work on that.

Right. Which, which they've shown as a selective antioxidant is one of the few antioxidants that doesn't blunt the hormone.

Exactly. And it's all the data that I've been both generating and reading with C60. It really appears to be similarly selective antioxidant, which is kind of, kind of nifty. But for me, the, the jury is still out until I've got something definitive that shows that. And I think this, I think at this point, the science, just because there's not enough of us researching it, I don't think the science is quite there. So that said, I take it one day, skip a day, two days, skip a day, five days, skip a day. And also the other thing that's different is we did clinical testing with animals and we came up with what was safe and 1x or rather 5x 1020. And so we put dosages that are normal. I do tremendously large doses. But I was going for a different response.

I do that with just about everything. I'll tell you a funny story in a second, but that's probably prudent, I would imagine, because you sent me a couple of bottles. I'll probably start to use it most when I travel because that's when I'm exposed. Like we were talking about solar radiation, the most inflammation, the most stress. I doubt. I mean, you've been out here in my peaceful oasis. I don't need a lot of anti inflammation when I'm out here, but this stuff could come in handy for travel, I'm sure.

You know, maybe to balance it out because of the environment here, you might want to actually take something that is a stressor.

Maybe I need to drink more.

I could, I could whip something up to just put a little bit more load on you metabolically.

Yeah, I'm sure you could. Funny story though. Speaking of putting a load on me metabolically, you also sent me this unlabeled blue bottle. I texted you, this was like a week ago. I'm like, what, what's this shit? And you say, well, it's neuroplastic juice. It's got like NAD and peptides and C60 and caprylic acid in it. And so I was like, hell yeah. So I just kind of held the bottle up to my mouth and took a swig and probably did that a Couple more times, I would imagine. I probably got about 4 tablespoons into my system. That's a little bit like, all right, I. Let's see what this shit does. And I sat down. I was supposed to record a podcast to somebody, so I sat down. I did this right before I had my morning smoothie. I sat down and I, like, I started. Started sipping my smoothie, and I'm replying to emails, and it was like, 15 minutes. T minus 15. To a podcast. I was supposed to reply.

T minus 15 is probably really applicable to this story, I'm guessing. My stomach goes, oh, yeah, there we go.

And so I barely made it. I sprinted up those stairs right there. I barely made it to the bathroom. Yanked down my pants and just, like, sprayed, like, just all over. And I sat on that toilet for, like, a half hour. Thank you for saving me from needing to do my coffee enema that day. And I remember I texted you from the toilet.

Dose makes the poison, my friend.

F is in this stuff. And I think it was the caprylic acid. Even though I've done a lot of mct. Whatever you're using, you know, it enhances. Kudos. Because whatever caprylic acid form you're using is working. But, yeah, it was like the intense diaper pants phenomenon.

Yeah. The C60 has a tendency to potentiate the effects of things that you normally have broken down in your GI tract. Yes. It does its job. Yeah. Even, you know, you have to build up to it really slow, slowly, because I've been building up on that same stuff for quite a while. And if you go over the threshold, there is. Yeah, definitely.

I took it again yesterday. I took a tablespoon yesterday. I actually measured and used the tables, and I felt fine.

Yeah.

What is that stuff? Is that also something you sell on your side, or is that like a.

It's an energy serum that we're about to. No, it's an energy serum that we're about to start selling. Okay. And that's. We're. We're doing some testing with it very shortly with the university, because we're. We're trying to. When I was alluding to the idea of, hey, we can upregulate ATP, we really upregulate ATP, you get a very pronounced spike.

Kind of peptides are in it.

I won't disclose that just as of yet. Yeah.

All right. So Speaking of being Mr. Mysterious, I know you're up to a lot of stuff.

Is it the cape I'm wearing in.

Your secret Batman lab, for example? You and I have chatted back and forth a little bit about deuterium depleted water. At the time that this podcast that you all are listening to right now is released, I probably will have released my podcast I just recorded with Dr. Thomas Cowan in which we discuss his feelings about the impact of DDW on cancer and how effective it could be for cancer prevention or cancer therapy. This idea of water that's been depleted of this heavy isotope of deuterium which would normally displace hydrogen in the body, you keep that from happening and you've actually got a very cool form of water that could be quite therapeutic. And right now it's expensive to get. You got to buy it for 10 to 12 bucks a bottle from Romania or Ukraine.

Yeah. There are only three places in the world that actually make it.

I also interviewed water researcher Robert Slovak and he talked about DDW and DDW generators and this whole idea behind ddw. And then you said that you were looking into DDW as well.

Yeah. Trying to kind of keep up with all the things that might be adjunct therapeutics that really make an impact. DDW is brilliant, in my opinion. I think it's. In addition to the anti metastatic formula for C60, I think the introduction of DDW will make a huge and pronounced impact. It's doing similar functions because it changes the way you're. Your mitochondria are actually able to process. Right. In the synthesis process. When you're going through the electron transport chain, you actually have on your mitochondria, pieces that are moving at about 9,000 RPMs and deuterium breaks that it really impacts it negatively. Now, when you're a baby or a teenager, you actually want deuterium in your system because it promotes rapid growth. But when you're older, it starts to break down your mitochondrial function. And if you eliminate it, because there's. Right now we're probably exposed to 10 to 15 parts per million more than you would have been 10,000 years ago.

From pesticides, herbicides, radiation industrialization, etc.

Exactly. Everything kind of combining. It's not the best thing for us biologically. But because of that, similar to C60, if we lived in a perfect environment, if we all had an environment that was really nice and pristine, it wouldn't really be a thing that you needed that much. But to combat all the environmental stresses and give your body an edge. Yeah. DDW I think is brilliant. I think guys at the Deuterium Depleted Water center in la, I think the work that they're doing is tremendous. They also had a Project for the Keto Pet Sanctuary.

What's their place called in la?

Deuterium Depleted Center, I believe.

I think I'm supposed to. I'm going to LA next week. I think I might be supposed to go. Be going into that. I'm not for sure because a lot of times I just wake up and get on whatever airplane I'm supposed to get on based on what my calendar says. But I think. I think I'm going down there to do an interview with those guys.

Yeah, they're. They're great actually. It's. Yeah. Q. Collins and Laszlo Boros. Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, I would say that well worth the time to talk to them. I had a lot of questions.

Have you. Have you tested your deuterium levels?

I have not. With their determinator. Yeah.

Yes, I just.

I just looked at it. It's the center for deuterium depletion. And I would thoroughly recommend that, you know, if everybody has the capacity to do it, you know, call those guys, talk to them, get their determinator test.

By the way, the show notes. For those of you listening in, I'll link to Ion's website. All these different C60 molecules and DDW and the other stuff we talk about. If you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com C60 podcast. That's BenGreenfieldFitness.comC60 podcast. So you think DDW is.

I think it's legitly. Legit, yeah. I would recommend that people do it, especially people with cancer. I think there are just. For the average person, I think there's going to be a tremendous impact. When people see things that actually modulate their mitochondrial function, it makes a huge difference. I always talk about the analogy with deuterium is if you were playing tennis and you know, the tennis ball cannon is launching tennis balls at you and then suddenly one of them is filled with lead. You know, your. Your return on the ball filled with lead is going to be very different than your return on a tennis ball. And intra. Mitochondrially, that's what happens, right? Yeah. You're spinning. You're spinning along at 9,000 RPMs and then you drop something in that's twice the weight of what you're intended to be using. And it mechanically breaks things.

It's like trying to play baseball with a bowling ball.

Exactly.

Interesting. What else are you researching that you think is kind of hot or at least interesting to you?

Hyperthermia, actually.

No kidding.

Yeah. I think hyperthermia is going to be really profound for people with cancer.

I didn't tell you my story about hyperthermia.

No. Sure.

So I went to the Swiss Alps and I led a two week detox retreat there at a place called the Swiss Swiss Mountain Clinic where they use all European biological medicine treatments like liver electrodes that they attach on the front and the back side of the liver to induce an electrical current to improve hepatic function. They treat mold, mycotoxin, lyme, they treat cancer. They have all sorts of different injections, but then they have all these different machines from pulsed electromagnetic field therapy to blood ozonators to hyperthermia. I was sitting in the doctor's office there waiting for my consult because every day during these two weeks you're meeting with physicians, trying out protocols, et cetera. And I looked up at her shelf and she had a book there called Hyperthermic Treatment for Cancer. So I started thumbing through the book and I've dicked around a little bit with, with the use of the sauna for heat shock proteins. And I have this biomat that I sleep on for my naps upstairs. And a lot of Korean literature came from that kind of alluding to the beneficial effects of hyperthermia on killing cancer. And this physician's desk manual had a ton of very compelling research on it I'd never seen before on hyperthermic treatments for cancer. And I asked her about the treatments they do there and they have this full on hyperthermic unit and I don't have cancer. But I told her that I was very curious, I was very interested in just seeing what this thing felt like. So she scheduled a time for me. And this was during the heat wave, this was four months ago during the heat wave in Europe. So it was 107 degrees in the Swiss Alps. And the way the protocol goes is first, first you get on a bicycle in a non air conditioned little gym they have next to the hyperthermic facility and you're supposed to get your heart rate up and get your body temperature up to kind of prime the pumps.

I see you were doing CrossFit.

Yeah.

And I'm, I'm a standard CrossFit.

You know me, you just saw me on the Vasper, right? Like I'm go big or go home.

Yeah, that was pretty apparent.

I hopped on that bike and just jammed for 30 minutes, like eyeballs popping out my sockets. I'm like, if I'm get hot, I'm going to get hot. So I'm dripping with sweat by the time I get off that thing. And then I, I call the nurse and I'm like, all right, I got my 30 minutes. And so she says, follow me. And she walks me into this room where there's like this pod, right, this pod that, that essentially you put your whole body into and just your head is sticking out. And she put a rectal throat, a rectal probe, like a rectal thermometer in. And apparently for cancer, you want to get up to like 41 to 43 degrees. I'm going to say this in Celsius, because that's, that's what we were talking about at the time and that, that's what all the equipment was showing in the room. So she put the probe in. And already from being on the bike, I think homeostatically we're at what, 35, something like that?

Yeah. And so you're taking it up to about 107 for those of us you're inducing a fever.

So I was at 38 from doing the bike ride. And so you lay there, you get inside this thing, and it is like the worst, most claustrophobic sauna. You can't move your arms, can't move your legs. Just your head's sticking out because it'd kill your brain cells if your head was in there. And you just lay there. And there's like a little like DVD player on the, on the pod that would theoretically allow you to like, maybe watch a movie or.

I'm sure, because that's the, the environment you want to be in when you chill out.

And I told the nurse, I'm like, can I, like, put something? She's like, no, it's broken. So I'm laying there and I'm watching the temperature climb and climbing. It hits about 39 and my heart rate's already feels like I'm doing a high intensity interval training session on a, on an Airdyne bike or something.

And so the nurse, more like hurt than hit.

The nurse has like the little flexible plastic straw with a little glass bottle, and she just keeps coming over to me. I got to turn my head, sip that water, turn my head back, because I can literally feel myself just filling and filling with a pool of my own sweat, my body inside this hyperthermic chamber. And then when I hit about 39 and a half, she just starts basically putting ice towel after ice towel after ice towel on my head to keep my brain from suffering the effects of that fever, because you got to keep the head cool. And I started counting to 20 over and over and over again just to deal with the extreme discomfort, heat, pain, and high heart rate from that Thing. I got up to 41 and a half degrees and I kicked. I didn't kick the can. I basically, I backed out. This was two and a half hours in, and I'm like, I'm good. I'm good. Because I literally could like, I'm a masochist.

Did she roll in with a turkey baster? I mean, no.

And then. And then I'm like, oh, I need to go jump in, like a cold shower, because they're up in the Swiss Alps and the water does get pretty cold there. She's like, no, no shower.

Yeah, that would be a bad idea.

Lay in bed for four hours with this induced fever, sweating my ass off. Passing in and out of consciousness while laying on my bed, continuing to just, like, saturate the bed with sweat. And the thought going through my head as I lay there was basically, it was twofold. A, I'm never gonna do that again. B, if I had cancer, I actually probably would be highly motivated enough to do that. But for me to do that again, like, I would have to have cancer and just be imagined my cancer cells dying as I did that hyperthermic treatment.

So, yeah, see that whole body hyperthermia, that's. That's intense. I am kind of a fan of localized hyperthermia. You know, where you're going to introduce.

So when you said hyperthermia, what are you thinking of?

I'm thinking of using something, you know, like RF or something like that to induce hyperthermia in a localized environment. Like, if you have, you know, liver tumors or something like that, go in and use a, you know, 100 MHz ultrasound.

And that's actually one of the machines they're using was called Indaba. Treatment for the liver.

Yeah. Yeah. Those seem to be. I've read a lot of literature lately, and they seem to be really profound. And I do think. I mean, if you just think through the process of what do I need to do to get this out in a specific area? You know, in my case, assuming, you know, how you can stop metastatic spread, then you want to be able to treat it in that one spot and the hyperthermia. Localized hyper. Hyperthermia, again, seems like a great approach.

Okay, got it. Hit it from all fronts, you know, so we got. We got vape pens that do not harm the lungs.

Yeah.

By the way, are those. Are those available?

No, they are not. That was.

That was more like a good idea. We've got using. Using epitalon to descale the pineal gland.

Yep.

C60 combined with some of these things like olive oil, Serrapeptidase, CoQ10, some of the cool formulations you're working on, and the hair growth serum.

Yeah.

You've got deuterium depleted water, localized hyperthermia, a lot of cool things.

Yeah.

Anything else that's interesting that you're up to?

Yeah, there's. There's a whole host of things that I probably really ought not talk about yet, but yeah, we're.

You're safe. No one can find you here.

Yeah, I figured the Internet, it's the, the most, the most anonymity you can afford a person live broadcasting on the Internet. No, I probably. That's probably enough.

Okay. All right, gotcha. So with C60, just a few more logistical questions. Dosage is going to vary based on body weight.

Yeah, based on body weight and metabolic conditioning. I mean, if you're in great shape, like what I would tell you is you could do the same thing. You're in far better shape than I am. So, you know, two tablespoons I'd up it. You know, if I were you, I'd probably do three or four. That way you're going to hit a balance really rapidly and then you'd notice the effect quickly.

Okay, got it.

And one, one word of caution though is you can super precipitate your skeletal muscles. So you, if you do mega dosing, you have to be very cautious and conscious of your movements because you can move too much weight. You'll get a signal across and it'll fire more of your muscle. Normally your brain down regulates your firing to 25 to 30.

This happened to me before with TDCS. Yes, there's that company called Halo and they make the head worn device that induces neuroplasticity and also enhances motor neuron activation. And you actually need to be careful if you put that on before an intense weight training workout because you can actually recruit so many motor neurons that the eccentric muscle tissue damage that you do leaves you sore for a long time. So you have to be mentally prepared for that.

That's exactly right. And mental preparation, I build, built a TDCS unit for myself and this was a couple years ago just to try and see what kind of responses I could elicit before Halo was a thing and I ended up burning two patches into my scalp where I had two very large rectangular patches.

Sexy.

It was hot. Literally.

Okay, so pre workout you could actually take three to four tablespoons. You just need to be prepared for.

Yeah, you've got to be very cognizant of how Much. You're actually, actually moving, you know, because if you can normally move £100, suddenly you have the capacity to move £300. Just. Because if you do that much recruitment, you know, you'll hurt yourself. Your body's not designed for that. So it kind of puts you in the driver's seat a little bit more.

I doubt you could go from 100 to £300. That's a jump. That's like saying like. I mean, that's like saying somebody who's doing a 300 pound squat could do a 400 pound squad.

Well, if you think about. Really all it takes is if your brain is shunting your response so that you can only get 25 to 30% capacity firing. And then suddenly you're able to get 60% capacity firing. You've effectively doubled what you can do. And if you take too much and you suddenly are going to. Electrically you're stimulating 100% of your muscle firing. It's effectively like fight or flight. And so you're going to cap out at what you can normally do, which is about three times what you would be able to do normally, which again, I would not recommend. But it's just a matter of firing.

Right, I'm gonna try. I'm gonna take this stuff and put on the halo headset and then go to the gym. I gotta be on a plane.

Can I give your eulogy? I'm down with that.

Seriously, I gotta be playing all day tomorrow. Maybe I'm hitting the gym this afternoon. Maybe I'll do it.

Do it up.

Yeah, I'll give you some feedback. Your website, I'll link to that in the show notes. But that's where people can get just, just regular old C60. Yeah, they could get this stuff we just took, which is the C60 with the serrapeptidase and kind of like the joint support stuff in it. Yeah, I know. You got another one that has. What's it called? Revitalize or Rejuvenate. Rejuvenate. And that's more for.

It's. It's actually geared for women and just. Or anyone who's really kind of working. It has hyaluronic acid in it and.

It'S geared for, you know, kind of hyaluronic acid.

Yeah. Supple skin.

Okay, cool. And then you got the one for pets and then the hair growth serum.

Yeah, exactly.

This neuroplastic juice that you're working on.

Yeah, that's. That's gonna. Yeah, it's. We're probably gonna bill it as energy serum because it really diarrhea. Yeah, I don't know that that's a great trade name. I'm just saying.

You can use me as a guinea pig. So if, if you were listening in right now, I'm gonna to link to all this stuff. If you go to BenGreenfieldFitness.com c60podcast BenGreenfieldFitness.com C60podcast and if you go there, I would imagine there's some people that are going to have some questions, comments, feedback. Leave them all there and I'll jump in and try and point you guys in the right direction. Ian, dude. Pleasure, man.

Yes, very much so.

It's fascinating. Well, thanks for listening to today's show. You can grab all the show notes, the resources, pretty much everything that I mentioned over@BenGreenfieldFitness.com along with plenty of other goodies from me, including the highly helpful Ben recommends page, which is a list of pretty much everything that I've ever recommended for hormones, sleep, digestion, food, fat loss, performance, and plenty more. Please also know that all the links, all the promo codes that I mentioned during this and every episode help to make this podcast happen and to generate income that enables me to keep bringing you this content every single week. So when you listen in, be sure to use the links in the show notes, use the promo codes that I generate because that, that helps to float this thing and keep it coming to you each and every week.