164. Rising From The Descent We All Face

Welcome to another episode of Real Dad Movement podcast. The point and purpose of these episodes, as always, is to have a point and purpose towards helping you win the second half in life by building a path of becoming the best father, husband, man and member of your community that you can be. We do this with various ways of connecting. Life is connection. And as you hear these words spoken time and time again, know that the driving force of connection in life is energy. Which means that how you turn up as a father, as a husband, as a valued member of society will always start and end with how you turn up as a man within yourself first. This is why it's my mission, my purpose, our mission, our purpose through Real Dad Movement to inspire, motivate, educate and guide you into thoughts, feelings, actions and a change in your belief systems to rise up, cut the shit from your life and live and leave a real legacy. When dads win, everyone wins. And when you win, I win. Let's get moving forward, mate, right here, right now.

Welcome to another special episode. And it's a special episode because there's one special man here and it's certainly not me. It's the one and only Mr. Jason Pell. I'd like to say though, Jason's club, just like we said with Amesbury, but not unfortunately, but we've already got a few Jason's in here, mate. So looks like we can't change the name. But I'll tell you what, if I could, I would because we've got a stand up man who's been with us for two years now and created some amazing changes and is a real leader inside of the community and with our community. Jase, what I love most is you don't have to always be the loudest or the biggest extrovert to add the most value. And when you add points where you're checking in with a tribe and diving in, they're always very highly valued and I love seeing them, watching them and listening to them. But mate, before I end up turning this session to just twisting the ears off at about you, let's get cracking on into your side of the story, mate. Welcome. Thank you for joining us.

Yeah, no, thank you for the opportunity. Al. I know there was one, an opportunity maybe eight or so months back and it was, you know, come on in and you know, if you want the wife to come along, Ed's reached out and it was. I didn't feel that I'd done the work that I needed to at that point. So it was a bit, I don't know. And then when the opportunity came up again, I thought, yeah, look, I'd really built that self confidence and self belief through action. So it was fantastic hearing what you were saying. Yes, we can't have the, you know, no other Jason's. We've got a heap of new ones in at the moment that are looking really good as well. So, yeah, really happy with that. But no, my journey's been, I don't know, a fairly interesting one in the notion of sort of coming through and getting to grow up in one of the best places in the world. You know, Northern New south, sitting up on the beaches of Byron Bay. We'd had family up there, so it was sort of a natural thing. So from 2 to 25, I think we were sort of running around up there. Still got family there, so never really. I guess for me growing up, the role of family was, you know, it was there, it was stability, it was really, really good. It wasn't abusive, they wouldn't, you know, there wasn't drugs, alcohol or anything like that. It was just stable. And we often felt we'd go without because there wasn't like chocolate or anything. But we had a roof over our head, you know, and that was the priority and that was the model that dad had. You'd get up, you'd go to work. Like we'd wake up in the morning and think, you know, dad's up so we're going to stay out of the way. And we would. And it was just, he's got a job to do. And that was. Was the perception. And yeah, growing up and, yeah, trying to fit in and find the connection was important for me. So we'd sort of tick along and dabble at a few sports. Water polo, which was cool. Had a go at under 16, rugby union with a few mates, talked me into it, which was good until I got put down in the middle of the Byron Rec grounds. And if you know the place, you know, it's got a concrete cricket pitch up the middle. So that, that, once that season wrapped up, I was very happy to just sort of put the. Put the jersey in the shed. But then I sort of got into music. Like mental health wasn't great. So I got into music and listening to a lot and playing, got in a little band and from that started being invited to all these parties. The beauty of that was, you know, the popularity came. Everybody wanted us there and it was fantastic. Over two years of playing probably two parties a week. I think there's a grand total of $40 cash was paid and the Rest of it was just drink until you blacked out. And that became the culture that I was sort of embracing myself into. So school wasn't important. I just got caught up in that, you know, that need to be part of something or the need to be valued. And it didn't matter what cost it was. And it was. It was a pretty few, you know, pretty rough few years. So the end of high school rolled around. I remember we all went down to the post office, opened our envelopes, and there was no score to celebrate. There was absolutely nothing. You know, I had people next to me who'd scored in their 90s who were devastated. And I didn't. I don't even think I hit 40. So I was like, oh, well, I don't need this. You know, I've got this lifestyle mapped out. It's all good. And, you know, maybe a couple months later, that all fell apart. So I was like, you know, I need to just sort of do something different. So, you know, still battling a bit of. Bit of anxiety, and at the time I thought it was more depression, just not managing it well, not managing myself, not understanding the role of, you know, my place in the world. Met my partner on her 19th birthday, so that's probably a gift she wished she could give back. But we're still going strong, so that's really good. But I don't know, a few years of toughing it out at work then turned into, you know, time to sort of grow up a bit. And so I went to uni, did a teaching degree, which was good. And again, that was helping people, helping kids, getting into that. So I really, really enjoyed that. We had to move, or didn't have to move, but to trace the work, we ended up 1600k from home and from family. So that brought with it its own challenges of loneliness. And we got into that. So that was really, really, I don't know, an opportunity that I felt, well, I didn't think I would have done, but I did it. But again, along the way, lots of things just fell into place. So most of my life, been really lucky with that. After about five years of trying, my wife and I, to have a child finally happened. And it was. It was pretty stressful at the time in that, you know, after Elodie was born, it was five years before we even. Not five years, five years before we conceived, she was born and it was probably two to three days before my wife actually held her because the lungs hadn't softened. She was early, went down to Melbourne, so that probably was A bit of the, the start of the disconnect, I guess. And then for me it became everything in the house, everything in the home. And it sounds selfish, but I wasn't ready for that whole notion of, you know, it had been the two of us for six or seven years at that point and then pretty much overnight it changed and it was the two of them and me. And even then my wife was struggling with it and we struggled through for a few years with that second child came along, didn't get any better, didn't get any worse and I just found my identity being shaped more around work. So everything that I was doing was work based, which was what I'd seen modelled. And I did have an opportunity to go to a PD once with Steve Biddulph who wrote, I think the Raising Boys books. And it was at that point I started to think and make connections to what dad did, why he did what he did, why that was his perception of family. Know you get up, you go to work, you grind away, you come home, you're tired, you relax, you get up and you do it again. And that was just that constant sort of thing. Had a change of work which was good, it pushed me a little bit into a four year role that came back around and then with that was a new challenge as well as another kid. But the more time that went past, it just became this, I guess the trap of what's expected. So you go through teachers college or uni and then from there you get in and you do a bit of classroom teaching and from there you go up and you might do a bit of team leading or you might go for an assistant principal job or a principal job. That was just in my mind, that was the natural succession and I wasn't managing myself through any of that. So I had a few knockbacks and I was a bit disappointed. But in hindsight best thing that could have ever happened to me rather than getting thrown in early. But then I ended up in a high school which as a primary teacher was, that was, that was never going to happen. And I sort of had a couple big tough convos with managers about this is not for me, I'm really worried and that sort of thing about it. And in doing that I really got sucked into this whole do everything for everyone else. You know, I'd be at school and you know, sometimes the kids aren't friendly and sometimes they do take out a lot of aggression and it's rough and it's raw and it's brutal and I'd Weather that from them. And then I'd come home and with the disconnection with my kids, if there was any sort of drama, I'd be reactive, I'd be snappy. I'd just be a dickhead, you know. And I got to the point where I was just sort of looking around and there are a couple comments from my wife, like, this is, you know, because what you do, you bring your wife to work. That's good fun. And she'd see me at work and everyone at work had me on this high pedestal, like, fuck, you're so good with the kids. You listen and you're supportive and you do everything for these kids who everyone else is just saying, look, bugger off, you're too hard. But then I'd come home and there'd be nothing in the tank. There'd be no, I wouldn't be happy to see him. I'd sort of get home and be like, I just need a break. So I'd get home and I'd go to the toilet for 40 minutes. You know, I'd engage in that downtime or whatever it was just to disconnect and to try and create space. So not only was I getting up first thing in the day, getting out, not helping, come home and not being present, and it was. I don't know, we'd had a couple big, big weeks at work and I really started getting to the point that, you know, to a lot of people, there's one version of me, but to my family, they don't see it, they don't get that benefit. And I just thought, fuck, this is shit. And so I started Googling, you know, as you do when you're looking for an answer. And nothing really sort of popped up that grabbed me, except the sad. Your ad on Facebook, that popped up. And, yeah, that was hard because there was that looking inwards and seeing and I guess owning where I was at. So in doing that, it was like, okay, let's book it in. I booked it in and then I had to run down the street for lunch. So I did that and I thought, oh, shit, I'm going to be late. So I'm actually flying along the back streets trying to get back to work because I'd set up a room where I was going to be available for the call. And, you know, our chat was really good. It was open, it was raw, it was honest. And I think at the time I was. I don't know, I've sort of reflected on a lot since, just really flat. So you were Sort of full of energy and you know, this is where we could go and you know, come along for the journey and you know, build up and connect into this family, self and service stuff. And I think from memory I was like, oh yeah, that, yeah, that sounds good. So I got off the phone, I thought, well, as I'd said to you, I've got a, it is a big decision, you know, this isn't a 28 day dad bod thing. So I thought I'd talk to the wife and had that chat and she was like, yeah, you need this. I was like, I got the green light for something and it was, I guess that was probably one of the flags that I needed it. You know, I needed to do something so that the people who meant the most to me, who were getting the least out of me might get something. So.

Yeah.

Yeah. So touch basin. The journey began.

Yes, mate. What a journey it's been so far. It's an incredible, incredible opener really. Jase, appreciate you sharing that and what an interesting upbringing you had too, mate. I think it's really fascinating when we're looking at the alternative in life. A lot of the times we get emotionally driven towards change because deep down most of us know if we're maintaining something that isn't wholesome or not working for those that we love and care about the most, if we don't change then it's not going to be ideal. And deep down we know that we need to when it's not wholesome or looking after them as well as yourself. One of the most interesting things I guess is this point you've written or I've written that you said here about needing to be valued. Isn't it interesting? As men, when we're in the workplace, we usually aim to perform well and exceed others expectations. Whether you run your business, you're an employee, whether you're in the industry of teaching education, building sites, construction, doesn't matter. Like you are there to perform. It's a place of familiarity. So you have a level of not over others, but self control and power. Like you've got control. Like I know my shit, I can do this, I can perform. So I look at this and I could be wrong, mate. But that whole deeply ingrained seed potentially of needing to be valued is something I really see as a common thread for a lot of, a lot of men and maybe a lot of men who didn't quite have the father they felt they needed to have that shoulders crying or have that emotional availability or have that level of connection that we do need as men. Like we're not 100% masculine. And this isn't about masculine or feminine. It's just understand that emotions are powerful. Like they can drive us, they can help us expel a lot of the toxic and shit we let build up inside of us. They can give us a release, they can adjust our chemicals. They can change fucking a lot, man. But you know, when I say that, I'm like, okay, needing to be valued, all right, can perform really well at work. So the value is there and it's being received because you would have been. You would have been probably getting accolades like what you said, how you're a different version at work and people would have really been appreciating, applauding. Then you come home running out of steam, tired, fatigued, and the family is in there. It's crazy, isn't it, mate? It's almost like a double whammy. It's like, well, I need to be valued here, but I'm not going to be valued and I don't have the energy anymore. And two of them and me. That was a powerful statement you said mate. Because I felt that when. When Corinne had Stella, I just felt distant, alone. Karin had a cesarean, so it took her a long time to heal. As well as endometriosis and some challenging issues which affected her hormones, sex drive or not. It was very diffic and challenging to start to connect intimately, which is important for men. And mate, it's just, what do you do? You just try less, you know, it's not like. It's like you just bring up this big confrontation, hey, I need help too. You know, you go to the hospital and if you put your hand up, you dare put your hand up, the nurses are straight into you. Hey, hang on. What about your wife? She's just given birth. Crazy, man. There's like 10 times more support for women than there is for men. Yet through childbirth and all the crazy things, it's. It's just as challenging for us in different ways. Do you see that as a common thing for a lot of fathers and men that need to be valued, but not. But not quite being there? And why do you think that remained the case? Was it there was a lack of communication at home or what led to, I guess, this bit of. Possibly what became a bit of an avalanche now when you're having your kids and whatnot and you realize that you needed to reach out and change something.

Yep, I guess. Look, it is in some people, we do see it. Oh, like my best mate Phenomenal dad, you know, because for him he just does everything, you know, if the kid's not sleeping, he's up, you know, he's up, he's elbow deep in. You know, his kids are a bit older now, so it's not so bad. But he was always deep in poo and just everything that comes with kids. But I guess by not actually addressing it, by not acknowledging, you know, in the middle of the night when everything is quiet and you're both lying there awake, not rolling over and sort of having that conversation about what are we doing to maintain us, you know, the old honey and handsome time, it was, it was a non event and then we sort of went through and the whole thing was, yeah, we can't ask people to, to have a, you know, give us the night off to babies, you know, by babysitting. So yeah, we don't want to inconvenience people. So then the opportunities went, went and went. And as you said, you know, you just, you get to the point after a bit where you're like, well, you know, I could suggest something, but the last 10 times it's gone a particular way where it's like, look, I'm too tired or you know, we haven't got the availability or we haven't got the perceived support around us. So it just, it fell away and it just became that, that routine, that grind. It was one more thing. So not having it challenged, I guess was. Or not not challenging it and not being able to communicate that at that time, not having that self awareness. And look, my elder, she's 19 and a half. So it was, it was a bit of a different time back then as we kept going back for, for more and more kids. The hospital staff were good. We actually got to know the kitchen crew fairly well. So, you know, when my wife was in, I'd come around and visit and there'd be a plate of food there for me with a little bit of extra custard and an ice cream because they were incredibly friendly out here in the country. But it was, yeah, it just became that, that grind. It's what you do. You get up, you go to work, you come home, then the kids start fighting and you know, whether it's their fighting for attention, it didn't matter. It was just, I haven't got, I haven't got the headspace for this. I haven't got the energy. So just, you know, I'll go and hide for a while and that sort of thing. So, you know, is it something I'm seeing More good dads out there. But I'm seeing it coming off the back of that communication and those sort of things that, you know, as a skill set, I didn't have. So this, this program 20 years ago, when I only just made eligibility criteria of having kids and becoming a dad would have. I don't know, I think at the time I probably wouldn't have thought, yeah, this is something that I need because I hadn't sort of been through and really got sucked in and not hit rock bottom, but just been really disconnected and. And not able to sort of make that connection, that there's actually two versions of me, you know, I probably would have lied to myself and said, no, no, everything's. It's not that bad. It'll get better. But it's that, you know, it'll get better, but not doing anything to make that change. So it doesn't change. So of course, then it doesn't get better.

So, yeah, it's crazy, isn't it, mate? And it's not that, like Jason's saying that it's definitely not that all the guys who are on the inside were at rock bottom, per se. We get some who feel that way, of course, and like, okay, we know we can't save you, but let's, let's. Let's help you position yourself so you can liberate yourself and take. Take control again. But so we do get. Obviously the patterns are very similar, Jason, what we see in communication, big one, totally agree. And also agree with what you're saying around challenging it. And sometimes the challenge is actually just awareness. Like I said, roll it over and say, hey, this is. This is really fucking hard. Hey, there's no rulebook on this. And I, you know, and then you can. And then from there it's like, well, we can set some attempts at commitments or game plans towards, okay, there's a deadline and then we're going to do something or we must get away or we must create this or, you know, awareness is it really. Is that gateway to start opening up the possibilities and what you can do, you need to walk through it. And that's the hard part. Involves more than just you, now, does it? Doesn't it? When you've got one kid, then two, and then the Mrs. And then the work. And it's like when I say it involves more than one, what I probably mean is it involves more than one hat or something like a stack of 12 hats. We should all have, like, necks like Mr. Olympias, but the guys don't. Yeah, the Guys don't always come and they. And they don't feel. And they feel like they're at rock bottom. And the ones they're like, it's. It's standards. This is the. It's going to be an episode that I do very soon. It's standards. And what is the standard I want? And also, what do I want? This is the craziest part, mate. Like most men, they move away from pain. That doesn't mean when we did our consult, when we do consults, now, we're just going. We're just trying to make you feel as shit as possible. But it's. Most guys, there's something that happens, and it's like, I need to get away from this space where I am right now, my identity. Something needs to change. For some guys, they really fucking push it, man. And they push it to the point of no return. It becomes divorce. It becomes a disconnect with one of their three children, three of their four children. None of their kids know who they are. They're now distanced physically. So it's hard to, like. They walk such a fine line, man. And it's like when you pass that, you know, what we do on the inside, Jace. But we're not miracle workers like we in those in that respects. But you're right, a lot of guys in their 30s will be definitely in their 20s, but a lot of guys in their 30s will be of that mindset still. Like, I've got time. I can turn around. She'll be right. All the while, they're still maintaining that vicious cycle. So they're just embedding that seed of poison even more. They're watering it, they're fertilizing it. They're doing all these things consciously aware of, not to the point where, yeah, all right, we've got a big rotten tree in the backyard now, and. And there's everywhere. And, you know, I almost look at it like friction. Like there's a level of friction that builds. And the man's life, you know, he's got a good set of strong hands. All of a sudden, he starts to develop these calluses. And these calluses build and they build and build. They just get and tougher and tougher, and then the more they pile up and build, the further it gets away from the deep core and the root of the problem or source, they need to change. All of a sudden, something will happen. Your grip and rip and shit will be torn back bare, and there'll be fucking blood everywhere. And then it's just chaos. Like, that's. That's a good sort of, I guess, visual that I had today. Just, just. Just thinking, just creating space about the A to B. The journey of the man, why the man lets it go so long. But, but again, mate, like, you know as well as I do that there isn't really a system, per se, right from day dot, you know, like we work with fathers, but is there a system that gets boys right at 15, 16 to start and hit the prime of testosterone, release and go, hey, man, this is what will happen. This is the process. And it's natural to feel. It's natural to feel that, like you said, communication, developing that as a skill set and so on. But I'm curious, man, what did you Google? Big, big red crossfit. Of me getting carried off the field. Innocent George Dragons. Jesse. I told my neighbor, no, no, I don't know.

I don't know what it. I don't know specifically what it was, but I remember telling my mate at work, who's my boss at the moment, that, you know, this. This is where I'm sort of looking at going. And there's this guy, Alex Ranieri, and he's like. I was like, big Aussie crossfitter.

I went, yeah.

He said he used to go down and watch because he's quite tall as well. So just the whole mechanics and movement of somebody his size moving as well compared to, you know, somebody like Rob Forte, who's a weapon, but he's probably taller than Amesbury, but there's not, you know, he's probably level pegging with me, too.

That's tracks five foot.

Yeah, but just that whole. The physicality. So to have your name come up and, and acknowledged by somebody who was well respected is well respected. It was like, okay, so there's that. That credibility as well, which sort of. Yeah, it was. It was quite interesting. Quite interesting.

So it. It's fascinating, you know, because. Because I do understand. I get it in terms of legitimacy, not so much authority, I think, just legitimacy, like being true, being genuine. We've got some members on the coast here. I'm on the central coast, New South Wales, and half of them, I think, saw it for ages. And then one day they just saw the truck. I just saw the RDM truck down at the shops or somewhere or parked out at the front of the office. And. And that was the kicker. Oh, this guy is real. And, you know, so I totally get that, mate, because we're in a world full of. Full of shit and full of people who, whether it's Social. Yeah. Social media or not, you know, it's. It's just manipulation galore and scammers in person. Online. Definitely online. And so it can be hard. I had someone today actually just send a message and he tagged the link, one of Mads, and he said, is this legit? I said, well, are you legit? You know, like, people come down, it's like, is this legit? It's like, well, I'm not gonna pussyfoot around. Are you legit? Are you wasting my time? You know, like, it's. But. But also, you know, we both know, mate, and you're on the inside. We talk about this, this. This level of truth in ourselves, and the truth always wins. And, you know, here we are. Good on you for taking that step, I guess. I'm, you know, I'm interested, mate. Four kids. Where would life have gone if you didn't do something, Jason? If you just kept going where you're going, mate, what would that have meant for your children, yourself, your wife, you know, work, everything from a relationship point.

Of view, that would have broken down real quick. The kids would have hated me. Depending on which one you currently speak too. A couple of them don't currently. The. The eldest son does at the moment. He's really, really struggling with, you know, being 16. A lot of hormones, a lot of emotions, no idea how to process them. You know, ball of rage, no accountability, feels a high level of shame. So I'm actually keen to. To have a listen to the new Hugh Van Cuylenberg book that dropped the other day. So, you know, we've sort of. He does air Force cadets, so we'd sort of go out and I'd put on a. Some of the Resilience Project stuff, just as that gateway for him. So he had that management strategy, but, yeah, not going real well at the moment with him. And I was talking to my auntie and, you know, she's saying that it gets better. And Mum and Dad tell me that, you know, I got better once. I probably moved out and moved 1600k away, but it was. It's that my eldest daughter, it's sort of. It's flowed in and out the relationship. I think it's pretty good at the moment. Like my wife, I thought it'd be fun to bring her to work as well, so. But she's moved out, so I've got, yeah, the wife and eldest daughter at work with me at the moment. The youngest daughter, I don't know, a couple years back, you know, still had that view that you know, dad's pretty cool and again at the moment, like she's got a few sort of very anxious and blows up and last night had a big, big yelling fit and told me she hated me. And when I went in, sort of tuck her in, actually said what you said really upset me, you know, and, and named it and acknowledged that, said it's not, you know, those sort of hurtful words do hurt. And you know, she apologized and, you know, I'm sorry, dad. And so I guess without, without having taken this detour in the light of that, it would have just been a case of, you know what, all right, ya, you know, you're a spoiled little, you know, shit of a kid and all I asked you to do was feed your axolotl that you had to have and you've, you've had the big massive meltdown and it would have just been, I've got no time for you. So it wouldn't have been that ability to reflect. So if I hadn't have come this way, yeah, I'd be probably, well, most likely, you know, coming to visit them in a nice home that I could no longer afford or be part of, but them not wanting me there either. Because the flip side of it has been previously that. Where a lot of people at work would see one version of me and home and get the other because I taught at the same school they were attending, they'd see it as well. And this is, you know, I saw that kid today, you know, tell you to off and you're okay with it. And now, you know, if you ask me to do the dishwasher and I go, this is, I get upset. And so how does, how does that weigh up? What's the, what's the perspective? And it's like, you know, it makes a, makes a fair point. So trying to be, yeah, through this, I've got that karma, I've got that fare of I don't always get it right. You know, I'm not gonna say that I'm the glowing endorsement of good choices, but it's definitely a lot easier to actually think about stuff and know when I need to create space and know when I need to do a bit of connection work and then. And when to sort of own my mistakes. I had to go to Mrs. The other day. She came in and she was having her ant and I just flied back and cut her down and I was like, and you know, a couple years back it would have just been, oh well, suck it up. I don't give a shit. What, you think I don't give a shit what you feel? You know, you came in ranting, I told you to pull your fucking head in now. It was like, you know what? My response to it wasn't what you needed at that time. You know, I needed to listen. And yes, there was some good points. It wasn't something that I could fix or control. She needed to blow off, she needed to vent. So I'm a lot more aware of digging holes and then how big a hole it is and whether I decide to make it deeper or whether I start filling it in and, yeah, be less of a prick, so. But without doing this, I'd be alone.

Yeah. It's really hard though, isn't it, mate? When we're looking at as men and wanting to be performers. And more often than not, we perform well with our work. There's just a logical process of this is how it should be done. And it creates subtle expectations of either what should happen or what shouldn't be happening, but is happening, which can lead to short fuses, whether it's the children, whether it's the Mrs. And it is a fine line to work walk, because no one should be anyone's punching bag. But on the same token, you're right, it's when we have someone that we're living with and sleeping in the same bed as it's like, okay, what do they need from this? And what do I need? And. And what can I give? What can I offer? Guys go too far. They offer everything. Guys shut down too much. So it is a fine line to walk because if you give everything, you become that punching bag. You become not respected, not valued. You know, just see it how you like it. But women, a real woman wants a real man. And a real man is not someone who cuts away his personal integrity and just becomes a fucking yes man to his wife. And I've had consults with guys like that. It's tough because I see, like, at the flick of a switch, man, how they could get their own power back. But they're literally. It's not like the woman wears a pair of pants and the man wears a pair of pants and he's just taking his off. He's. He's like fitting. He's fitting his misses with his pair of pants and he's like tailoring them and going, yep, that'll fit nice and beautiful. You got two pairs. It's savage, man. Like, that is that far. Like, that's one in the extreme. But. But there are a lot of guys like that and then there's obviously the other end. Yeah, it's one of our episodes. I'm sure you know about it because we talk about it on the inside. The Viking and the Panda and, yeah, this fine line we walk, I find the best way, especially with the kids. So it's helped me do it better with Corinne, too. Funnily enough, I've worked from the kids and going slow and steady to then communicating. Not to Corinne like she's the child, but it's explaining yourself. You know, it's funny when I. Because I thought. I thought that flowed through my head, because I never use that term, explain yourself. But when you were talking, that's what went through my head. I was like, you know what? So many times people, when they want something out of us, they'll tell us to explain ourselves. But, like, what happened with your daughter and you sharing and opening up your feelings and how, hey, you know what? I'm human, too, because they look at us. My kids look at me and think I'm fucking indestructible to the point where I'm laying down and they'll jump on my spine with their knees. I'm like, man, I'm strong, but there's no muscle there. Like, Stellar will just launch two days in, right in the middle of. Not my back muscles, my spine. And I'm like, hey, that's. And I'm shot. I'm like, all right.

And it's hard not to react, isn't it, at that time. It's just that.

Oh. I'm like, man, Daddy. I say, stella, Daddy's strong. But there are. There are still tender spots for everyone, especially. I mean, Lillian's kicked me in the nuts that many times. But Roman once, because he's at the age now when he. I know it's a bit off track, but he's. He's at the age now where he can reach up and he's grabbed my shorts one day, is there? And he just went bang. And just with his hand, and he's got a massive grip. He just grabbed my nuts and crushed him in his hands. Like, wow. Crazy, crazy, man. But you're right, you can't. I mean, obviously with that, you really can't react, but explaining yourself, not when prompted, but when you need to share who you are, how you feel at that point in time and what's important. Mate, that's. That's a big win, Jase, because we. A lot of the times, we don't know other people's perceptions, do we? Especially our loved ones. And what could be going through their head is, that'll be right. And. And people create a fabrication there in their head. They create a story where she might have a memory of you just delivering to the entire school and seeing this guy and be like, look how fucking tough he is. And he can handle all this, this, this. So they justify their actions. Everyone does it. Kids do it, teenagers do it, adults do it, faint grandparents do it, old people. They definitely do it. People. People justify their actions and they will find any piece of evidence or data in their own head or memory or a past or something or a future forecast to justify it. So it's very powerful, isn't it, mate, having that communication, especially with your children? Because it's like, hey, you may think it's this way, but this is. I'm telling you my truth. And then. And then you sort of have that blend and crossover. Is that one of the valuable. I mean, you're great. You are great at that, man. I know you say you're not thinking model for good choice, but shining, but I've loved being part of your journey, mate. But, like, what is. I don't know. What have you gotten out of working and being with us? When I say working with us, I guess that's true. We're a team here. We're working together towards, you know, being better leaders for ourselves, for our families. But what have you gotten out of your journey with us so far, mate, in the last couple of years? It's, you know, helped you, helped you build. You've built professionally very well. But in all areas, I guess I've.

The big thing is I've got to know myself. And I mean, it sounds. I don't know whether it sounds cheesy, but, you know, I know who I am. I know what I want. I know what I believe in. And that was the thing, like when we went up 12 a little bit over 12 months ago, up and did cosi. You know, I sat there for the first probably two days and, you know, all these dads sharing their open stories, and I was like, yeah, right. And it was only when we did the activity where we went around, I think at the end of the third day, we were sitting downstairs unpacking what our true north was. And that realignment there was.

I.

That's. That's why I'm here. You know, I want to have that. That one version of myself, and that's. That's probably the big thing that I've got out of this. Getting closer to one version. Yeah. Not that some people See me at best, and some say me my worst. There's, there's a balanced approach, so there's a bit of vulnerability at work. Whereas previously it was like unfazed and bulletproof, you know, and people might not like some of the things that I've done and they'd have a bit of a carry on and I just sort of ignore or that sort of thing. And now it's, you know, that's not the right thing to be doing. That's not the right thing to be saying, you know, we're a team, we're united, you know, you can challenge, that's fine. Back it up and have a conversation with me about it. I think that's, that's huge. So for me, getting that, that level of clarity, that's one of the big, big things that I've got. And you know, here I think that there's. There's a lot more appreciation, there's a lot more, definitely a lot more predictability in my behaviors. You know, it's very easy to see. And I think one of the things now that my wife's also working in the same sort of space is doing some of the work with her around, you know, I can see how I'd come home from work in her and it's just that processing stuff and unpacking and debriefing and for her, creating space is a lot of sedation. It's, yeah, Netflix, it's series. It's just that exhale, physical exhaustion. So just do something to do that where I'll be like, cool, you got this. And I go for a walk and that's something that every now and then I'll sort of tap her on the shoulder and say, hey, let's go and do a blocky. And you know, she hasn't run off her feet, you know, being five foot tall. So she's even shorter than some of those crossfitters, like.

Yeah.

Keeping up with the normal walking pace. She's almost in a jog. So she is, at the end of the day, absolutely knackered. She's chasing up our young bloke who is 8, he's got ADHD. To get off a chair, he stands on it and jumps to get out of bed. He stands on it and jumps to get off the lounge. He'll stand on and jump to get through the car, he'll run across the seats and then, you know, blows up. And it is. It's exhausting. I think if he was our first one, we'd have one child. We wouldn't have gone back. You know, we keep saying we're too old for this shit, but you know, we see people our age starting fresh and it's like, no way. But just, just what I've got out is that, that awareness and that balance. And I was actually talking to one of our young teachers yesterday or today and seeing all the work that they were putting in to sort of showcase everything they could do. And I had him in my office and on the wall I've got this little like a flow diagram. It's got like family, self and service. It might, might be something you've heard.

About and Sounds familiar.

It sounds, but it's that whole, you know, realization of where is the energy going? And if I'm sitting there throughout the week and I'm looking up and it's all service, it's like something's not right. And on the rare occasion that it's all. Well, I don't think I've got to the point where it has been all family yet. But if it's heavily self related in terms of getting out and making sure that I'm eating well and really concentrating on that or getting out for movement, you know, love that. I think that's fantastic. But just sort of, I said to the guy at work, said, think that you got three buckets, just try and keep them level. If one's full and the other two are empty, something's not right. You haven't got that balance. So that's, that's one of the big things that I've, I've got. And when I'm doing the weekly temples and it's like, hey, do you go this week? And I'm rating. I find it a lot easier to give myself five stars for service if I've had a good work a week as opposed to for family, because I'm still. That I know I can do better. So I sort of. Yep, it might have been a good week, but there's, there's that. So I'm sort of hoping over the next few weeks, once we hit the holidays that I can get a few five stars there. So that's, that's probably the big things that, that I'm sort of rolling with and then I'm sort of getting out of or what I've got out of this, that growth journey, sort of a bit more balanced.

Simon.

You know, there is that one version and it's. Yeah. Good for everyone.

Yeah. Awesome share, mate, and great points. We are really striving towards and we do. It doesn't Mean, we do it all the time, but we do it consistently well in making the impossible possible. You know, I'm not, I'm never. And we're talking about balance here for those listening or watching, because whilst there's a perception that balance cannot exist, mainly because everyone seems to have different definitions, right, or what they think it is. Life is a balancing act. And we use the water in the bucket. So that's a great example, mate. You know, we talk about the juggling of the balls and you know, sometimes they're rubber so you can let them bounce. They come back up and they're in that rhythm. They're in their spot beauty. We just don't want them to turn to, you know, get a couple turn to stone and then they become glass really quickly. But I love that, you know, the circles of significance, family, self and service. I've never coupled that with that question. I don't know if you've got it on the wall or not, but I wrote it down because that's very powerful, having that family, self and service. And then a question that says, where is the energy going? That's very powerful, mate. Like that, that's awareness. Like I said, awareness opens up the gateway to changing and to the possibilities. If you're not aware, you don't know. If you don't have that on the wall, it just becomes. Because we're so distracted in life, right, there's so many different things, so moving parts. We are literally our, our awareness and our eyes, what they see at volumes every day, whether we use technology or not. Are you going to school? The volume that your eyes are exposed to, the stimulus, like, man, we are full of chaos and there are times of scattered, not just emotions, but thoughts, feelings, when we're just reacting. But moving back a little bit, mate, getting to know yourself like that's, that's critically important. You know, if. If anything gives you the opportunity to get to know yourself, you should dive into that right away. That might not be. That might not be us. For some of you guys, listening very well may be. But ultimately, when you get to know yourself, you then have a point to pivot and go, cool, I know exactly where I stand now as well. Where do I want to go? Do I want to. I'm getting to know myself now, so now I can get to build myself into who I want to become. Again, comes back to that alignment. This is the A to B, A to B of your personal legend or identity or who, who you are. And then from there the offshoots, because that's the big fucking trunk, man of the tree. And then the offshoots become my family. And, you know, that self keeps rising up. That's got to be the top. That's going to hit the sun. That's going to, you know, create the entirety of photosynthesis. But you've got your family in service as well. It's all part of the same thing at the roots, man. It's you, Jason. Like, you can't deliver 100% in a work if you're not delivering into yourself. And you know that. But a lot of guys, they just keep giving. One, maybe they need to be valued. Two, maybe they're not aware. Maybe they don't challenge things. Maybe they don't communicate. Maybe they just accept. And three, maybe they don't want to get to know themselves. Maybe it is a, you know, a dismissal of something which is probably the most important thing ever in valuing and loving and knowing who you are. Knowing who you are first. Like, that's. We talk about relationships, and the biggest one is your relationship with yourself. Naturally, it's. It's not. When I say that, people think straight away, the missus or some might think kids, but it's with yourself, you know, It's a really funny word, though. You said predictability. I used to. I used to hate. And it didn't happen a lot, but probably in school because I was overweight and got, I guess, triggered because I got bullied for being overweight and picked on in high school, people used to say to me, you're so predictable. I used to fucking hate that. A. I used to hate that so much. Whereas now I actually. I really love it because I can. I can change. You know, we all can. If you have the ability, you can flick a switch and change your Persona. You know, how I am with you. Jason is probably a little bit different than my grandmother. And I'm a mother and father in them is different, but to my children's different. But predictability, I love that, because if you're solid in yourself, I think there can be a lot of value there, man. If I'm solid myself, then people will know, hey, if I do this, I can predict that because of Al's values, who he is and what he stands for, this will be his stance and his response, not his reaction, his response. So I really like that because that, to me, is a word I haven't really used much. Again, this is why I love these episodes, man, because I'm learning. I've got these notes here. I'm like, there's some good stuff here. We've basically done the Sunday charge up Jay. So I'll just copy and paste this. I'll slide it in, I'll pretend it's live. I'll do a little graphic. So it's got a little live button in the top corner.

We'll tap away.

We'll tap away. That's right.

Comment.

Comment below. I love the Sunday chart. I'm so good. But this is what it all builds to it. Predictability. I want to be that, not. Not to. To my enemies, although I don't focus on that at all, but to my loved ones, to myself. Then we know where we stand, right? Then there is the foundation of stability that can come from that. Because like, okay, this is what dad stands for. This is his values. So if I do this, this may happen. And of course it needs to be measurable. Do we want to be predictable in the wrong way? Well, no. Well, that's why the episode that we we've done with, with Ken and Adam about mastery and as you know, with the weekly temple, we measure it. But that's a beautiful thing. There's always something we can improve on. You could hit 80 and it's like, okay, I'll just do the exact same thing, but I'm going to create space two more times this week and maybe one more honey and handsome time. Bang. I'm blue ribbon above 85. Or I can just hit those two training sessions I need didn't because work was under the pump. And this is when you're talking about balance. I get it, mate. We create that, though. You can win in family, self and service because you might dip a little bit in this area, but you can top it back up and then you can hold that and then that can elevate that. And I really love it, mate, when bringing this, this graph software and what we have that's going to collate this into your journey over a month, three months and so on which we have. The data will just be manually loading into a new software that we have. It's going to be so cool because we can track the trends, we can look at the subjective data, like you said. How do you feel? You went with family, with work and then. And really, really reflect on. On the truths so then we can create more truths instead of. Yeah, it's all right. It's not. I don't know. We'll find out. And I'm really excited, man. I'm not sure on your thoughts. Obviously, a lot of these upgrades we've done in the last few months. But you've been with us for a couple of years. But I mean, where do you see all of this sort of stuff going? Not just this isn't about being robotic, but where do you see the journey of what we're doing? To continually elevate yourself, but then also the fathers we work with and where we're actually going, because you can see you're a very intelligent man and, you know, we've been together for a couple of years. Like I said, you can, you can get a pretty solid feel on where we're heading with all this.

Well, I think you sort of were mentioning in one of the charge ups around the data side of it, and that's the thing, like where there's that data to guide what we do and not just gut instinct, then it's better. So the last few weeks I've sort of had a look and the energy and connection scores have been okay, but that the next sort of step where we'll be able to see our scores will be fantastic. And then if there's, you know, that awareness of in this, in energy, what do I have to do to raise my performance in it, then it's a clear path, you know, and you've said it so many times within charge ups and so many times within these podcasts that, you know, all the pieces are there. You know, it doesn't do it for people. They've got to. They've got to take the step and they've got to take that ownership. But that whole notion of, I guess I just say RDM and the HPF side of it as being just a progressive pathway where people know themselves, they connect, they set a standard and identity, they work towards where, you know, as I was driving to work today, I thought about the weekend and I'd sort of had been a bit cranky. But even, you know, the lowest low at the moment is a hell of a lot better than the highest high from six to 12 months ago. So that whole notion of building and, you know, the roller coaster looping up and that sort of thing, so it's just, that's the journey and it's all off the back of knowing yourself and committing and, you know, connecting and putting in place the things that you need to so that you can be better and, you know, when we wobble, when we have a bad week, you know, we know how to deal with that. And that's, that's where I see it. So it's just that that's continuous improvement. So I sort of Had a shit tea last night. It was just some ravioli, you know, cook the Aldi way, where you just sort of boil it up and then get the thing of sauce and put it on and stir it through. And she was a rough night. Yeah. Just knowing that I hadn't eaten well and that awareness of the body of. Okay, so I've had this. And this is the outcome on me, as opposed to just constantly eating it and then you don't worry about it. So that, that's some of that self awareness. So tonight when we were sort of getting tea and, you know, there were some garlic prawns getting cooked up, which were good and that sort of thing, I grabbed a bit of turkey breast out of the fridge and I'm pretty big on. And I. I get a bit of flak from this at work and from friends. Just the bird's eye steam fresh microwave veggies. And I don't mind them. I'll grab a bag or two, throw them in the microwave for two and a half or five minutes, depending on how many. And it's done. It's quick, it's easy, it's not all greasy, it's not all. All shitty. And I just knew that that's. If I ate that, I'd feel a lot better, you know, I definitely didn't want to sit here tonight talking to you, feeling how I'd felt last night, you know, and just. It was. Yeah, it was yuck. So I think, you know, going around the long way to answer your question, that whole where I see this going is we know each other, you know, we know ourselves and we build on that. And then our actions have that impact on, you know, the young adults in our lives and the sons and the daughters, where there's that. That openness to sort of say, look, this has happened. Here's how I'm sort of feeling from it. I'm not just accepting everything. I'm not just reacting to everything, you know, that. That better world for the kids where, you know, we don't pretend that everything's fine when it's not, or we don't catastrophize stuff when it's not. You know, the amount of people running around like the sky's falling over little things and you're like me, you know, in terms of perspective, this. This really is not huge. So then the flow on from that is through our actions, our kids and then their kids. And, you know, it's.

It's big.

It is really big. And that. It's that flow on that branches out and it spreads out. That's where I see it going. Because I don't want. I don't want my kids having the conversation with me I had with my dad earlier on in the year. Because we were doing a lot of stuff around the house and the only time we do stuff around the house is when dad's down. So he'll come down and we'll have all these jobs and he'll be like, oh, great. Yeah, we'll do that. We'll run to Bunnings and buy, you know, a planer or some timber and, you know, not a big job, but it's the jobs that we do together. And we'd done. We did a heap of concreting and bit of building outside and weather boards and all that. And I rang and said, oh, you know, he said, what are you up to? I said, working on the house. I said, oh, I really missed you. He was like, yeah, yeah, we. And he went quiet. I thought, okay, he's gone. Nah, we're up at my mate's place up on the farm, working there. So telling him I missed him was taken as I called. You didn't answer. Not. You weren't here.

And.

I want my kids to be able to say that and for me to be like, okay, and know what they mean. So by building that. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's.

That's huge because the. The more we come back to being open and honest and expressive, then the better everything's going to be.

Yeah.

So.

Yeah, yeah, that's what I love, mate. It's about being real, isn't it?

Yeah, you talk. So the camera goes off me for a minute.

Oh, man. It's pretty special. We share there, Jase. The flow on effects. Couldn't agree more. Men, you know, like this, this flow on effect to our children, what we do. We. It wasn't a joke. We're talking about how fast before we hit record, how fast time's gone this year and. And the changes in your journey. And we. We sort of said, oh, you know, we. Yeah, start of 2020, we made these shirts the Decade of Dads. And. And I guess I went on to share that we may not see because everything. I was wearing the shirts to get a few likes. Awesome. Great fucking few of us. You know, a few people love, love the term decade of Dads flows. Well, sounds good and whatever. Obviously a lot of our members wear them and we have them and I love it. But it's not going to be until there is a passion, a passage of Time where it's going to be truly recognizable, look and go, hey, Jason Pell's the man. He just kept standing up, turning up and leading and performing. And in the face of fires, he kept saying yes to the right things and no to the wrong things. And consistently. This is the thing. Consistency is not a straight line at all. Consistency is that vertical loop of the roller coaster. But if it's moving you forward in the right direction, it's moving you forward the end. And it'll be 20, 28 when people look back and go, holy fuck. What Al and the team has done in real dad movement and high performance. Like, this is. This is the decade. Why? Because of exactly what you said. The flow on effect to families, to children. You know, we, you know, I love the emails we get from strangers I've never even met saying they love the podcast and it's changed their life. Like, that's. That gives me goosebumps, man. But also I get that every Sunday when I do the charge up with you blokes because I see all the men watching and what we're doing and what we're. What we're carving out together, and it's. I wouldn't change it for the world, man. Maybe some people don't realize where this is going to go, how truly special it is, but it doesn't matter because it's not. It's not theirs to have to realize. It's. It's ours to own and to create ourselves. And that's important, man. It's not me. It's not ours. Not the owl show. It's ours. Ours. Not ours. Ours. Oh, you fuck. I just said that. I'm like, guys who aren't watching this looking at my lips fucking moving it.

We know what you mean.

Yeah, he just said Al's twice our s. It's ours's not. Not alss shit. What do you think is the biggest thing missing, man, for most fathers out there? You know, I guess as we start to. To. To wrap up what's been a very special session, Is it. Is it self awareness? Is it a lack of clarity? Is it not understanding that balance is possible, but they. They don't have the tools to do it? Like, what do you think's the biggest hole in most father's game in today's world or the biggest challenge? I don't like talking in a negative light when I say whole, but we can all improve. But what do you think is the biggest issue and challenge most fathers are facing, mate, as they move through their 40s in the second half.

It could be the busyness, it could be the grind, it could be just stuck in. This is what we do, you know. And you know, every now and then I'll see some dads and people are absolutely killing it, but it's, it's in the minority. The rest are just, this is what we do because this is what we do. It's. And it's, it's an accepted path, it's an accepted journey, it's an expected path that this is just what you do. And it's almost, I guess for some your kids grow up while you're doing everything you can to give them everything they need without in, you know, like all the materialistic things and having a house over their head and yeah. Giving them the things that they need for recreation or that sort of thing. And then I'm starting to see a lot of people becoming grandparents and investing so much more in the grandkids because they've now got the time, they've got the energy, they've got the space to actually slow down because they're not just flat bickies with work and they enjoy the grandkids and not the kids. And you know, some days we actually, my wife and I, we have the conversations around, you know, we'll do a better job with the grandkids. And that's not to say we've written off, you know, the kids and the 8 year old's just going to be on the back burner until he's provided us a grandchild and then he'll become useful again. But it's that shift and I think that's what's missing. I think the whole reflect and have a look and how you actually going. I think we've got this toxicity where, you know, there was a little dude up at little guy up at cozy little firefighter bloke, good hair, cheeky little grin, who when we were leaving made the comment, you know, you know, he was, as we all were, very emotional. It's, oh, look, I'm, I'm crying like a bitch. I know mate, you know, you're crying like a man. So that's that the ability or the permission to be emotive I think is hard. And I still see, you know, every now and then on Facebook when I'm on people post something that's a bit deep or they're sort of putting stuff out and other people at 40 year olds just going gay, you know, fuck me. Somebody's actually opened up and just trying to, you know, whether it is Just the beauty of a sunset or whether it's something that they're proud of or something that they've done, but they show emotion and they get cut down by somebody who probably isn't necessarily doing it to be hurtful, but it's just that whole, you know, it's awkward. So to break the awkwardness around what's happening, I'm going to make a comment and you did touch on this on Sunday, charge up about that self deprecating stuff. So if I get in first and sort of shoot something down, then it can't back come, can't come back at me, you know, I think that's what's, that's what's missing. The ability for vulnerability in itself, that's missing. So.

Yeah, yeah, I agree, mate. This is why environment's so important. Because when you surround yourself with those guys who either laugh it off or call, you know, call it out for humor or try and create humor from it and whatnot, it's. Yeah, it's disheartening. It's disappointing. It's disappointing to see as well, Jace, that that's still very prevalent. I mean there's a, there's a couple of very large Facebook groups where they're not. Not just fathers, there's a lot of men in there and I can't remember what they're called. I left them fucking years ago. But yeah, some bloke would be pouring his heart out or trying to set goals or achieve goals and he'd be sharing that and just get absolutely slaughtered, man. And I'd be like, what the fuck's wrong with these blokes? Like the world's tough enough as it is. We don't need to be bashing each other up. One of my ads has had over a million views. Like, I don't take the comments there personally. They don't know who I am or what we do. Why would I? It's a sad reflection of their internal horrors and reality. But when people project that like saying gay and whatnot, it's, you know, because a bloke or someone's sharing their feelings, it really is the problem, you know. And I guess having that vulnerability gives you the ability in the right environment gives you the ability to just stand up and actually express where you are. Sometimes shed the skin of the old because you haven't had that chance. And you kept that like toxic or poison, you've kept that bottle up inside you for so long and, and it's, it's, it's not an act of, of Weakness or it's. It's not something that deprives you from being a man. I like what you said there. Like, cry like a man. Absolutely. Because real men do. And should I guarantee you, mate, so many of them, so many of the men of the old guard, they fell apart behind closed doors when no one was watching, but no one saw him. Right. So I was okay, yeah.

Didn't happen.

What do you. Yeah, what do you think they were experiencing? All because of this front. And look, I don't use this very much, and it's not. Maybe people take this as a judgment, maybe they won't. I'm not sure. But I don't swear incredibly heavily with certain words all the time. But if you're a man, I know it wouldn't be men listening to this, but the men listening to this need to know that I support them, because men listening to this will have levels of emotion, and they will, whether they can't give themselves permission, have permission from what you just shared, Jason, or from what. What I share, what we can share. And tell them, you know, it's okay, man. Like, it's okay to go through the tough points. Okay to cry, to be emotional. And those men out there who shoot that down or castrate or bag it out, I will say it. If you're a man who does that, you are a fucking weak cunt. Take that from someone who's 6 foot 4 and wants to rip people's heads off back in the day, and I've worked with many guys bigger than me and stronger than me in the past and fathers of the same stature. It can be just as emotionally driven as you and I in this episode, Jason, in the right way, in the right light. But you're a fucking weak cunt. If you go out there and you push that on other people because of your own bullshit and pulling yourself down. I'm getting. I'm getting very warm. I can feel my face.

So really, no, it's good, but it is. And it's that. Yeah, the toxicity around it that holds a lot of people back. But Whereas within the tribe, you know, when you open up and share stuff, your email blows up with support, which is huge. And that's. That's what's missing, you know, so in the real world, but within the tribe, you know, I went on and had a big share maybe a month and a half ago, and it was huge, and it was raw and it was uncomfortable, and it was owning a behavior, and the amount of dads who reached out and said, mate, we've been there and the amount of dads who have gone have a look at this resource or this resource or the amount of dads who are still checking in is like huge. It's fantastic. And, you know, like, sometimes I'll be like, oh, shit, you know, I'll see the message and then because I, you know, it all comes through on the watch, I'll be like, working through and I'll see a message from one of the dads. You know, good job just checking in. How you going with that? I'm having a bit of a similar problem at the moment. All good. But, you know, thanks for being on top of it sort of thing. And then I'll sort of put the phone down and keep working away and then remember, shit, I haven't actually replied. So it's like get up and make the effort to acknowledge and respond. And it's the community, it's the connection and it's that, you know, and there will still be people, which is the other flip side that's good about the tribe is that, you know, if something goes up and it's not right, you'll get the messages going, oh, you're a dickhead. So, you know, it's. It's. It's balance and it's fair and it's not just, I don't know, it's not just blowing smoke up people's ass either.

So, yeah, definitely, yeah, it's definitely being on the level, but a true and genuine level with support, but also standards, like you said. Yeah, they couldn't agree more. What a session, mate. I've really enjoyed this with you, Jason. It's been great to chew the fat, so to speak, and sit down and just share your journey, your story, a lot of your philosophy, wisdom, you know, key takeaways that, like I said, I've written some notes here that I just love. This is. You know what? This is why I do what I do so fucking well, mate. It's not about the clap for Al show. It's just. It's not the books I've read, man. It's listening and learning from all the fathers on the inside, you know, is my skill set. Taking that in, filtering it, redirecting it with specificity to apply the right purpose and actions. Yeah, that's a valuable thing. Of course it is. But the source of where it comes from, champions like yourself. Otherwise there is no Merrell dad movement. There is no high performance father coaching program. It doesn't exist. It can't. I've been me sitting here just Talking to myself and be like, where is everyone? So, thank you, mate. I want to thank you for, again, for joining us and final thoughts. Made a final piece of advice for father listening to this and I know Amesbury did it. I fucking told him not to. He's like, it's not a promo, mate. Don't tell guys that they have to join. The man will take the step when he's ready. But just some advice, mate, like that you'd like to pass on any, any key thing, any, any mindset piece or motivational quote or anything, any last bit that you want to pass on as some food for thought or advice for, for the guys listening or watching to this, mate. I'd love for you, for you to share.

Yeah, I guess it's just that whole, be honest with yourself, be reflective, have a look at where you're at, have a look at where you're going. Are you happy with it? Awesome. If you're not, you know, put things in place, connect. Find a community who share your values, support you to be the better version of you. That's where it goes. I'm not going to do the aims.

Plug, but.

It is really important that men have a community behind them. It is huge. And, you know, without that, this whole parenting thing is a challenge. This whole adulting thing is a challenge. You know, the whole perception on society of where you need to go, it can eat away at you. Feeling that you can't open up, that you can't be honest, you can't, you know, be expressive is huge. So, yeah, you know, have an outlet, have, have something creative, have something that allows you to just clear the mind. Whether it's meditation, whether it's going for a walk or a run or, you know, it doesn't matter what it is, but it's just do stuff for you. Yeah, yeah. Don't be, don't be. My wife in terms of. And if she listens to this, I'm in trouble. But yeah, we have those conversations about if we're ever on a plane and it's going down, she will die because she'll be looking after everybody else around her and not herself and then not of benefit to anyone else down the line. You know, you've got to, to be able to give to work, to be able to give to your family. You've got to have that in the tank. You've got to give to yourself first. And goes against, I guess, a lot of the messages of society. But if you've got nothing in your bucket, you can't top others up. It's as simple as that. So, yeah.

What great advice, mate. Perfect way to finish this. And yeah, couldn't agree more. Give yourself the time and space to do something for you. Fill up your bucket and within that you'll probably have exactly what you said just before that, Jase Review and reflect where you're at and whether you are happy or not, what you're seeking and searching for. Thanks man. I really love this. That was great. I hope you guys enjoyed it as well.

Thanks Al.

Awesome session, mate. Thank you.

1,000 minutes a day. It's a lot when you're wasted on shit that doesn't serve you or move yourself or your family forward. You are bleeding the most valuable resource that you and I never get back. How much time do you think you have and how much quality do you think you've had? Don't be a fool like the masses thinking you'll cheat the system or get round to it one day or worse. Just accepting life and sin. Sinking back into a slumber of regret. This is your moment, your time. You're cut from a different cloth. You have the hunger and desire to be more and live more. Otherwise you wouldn't be here. So stand up. Find the golden nuggets. In this episode, you just listened to and align immediate action with them and where you want to go. You are worthy. This is your life.

Life.

You are the king and this is your kingdom. Now go and claim it by showing, not telling and be the real leader. You and I both know you were born to be.