293. Paul Roos: "Your Resume Is What You Do. Your Legacy Is How You Do It."

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Unreal. Well, very special guest we have today. Uh, I knew about the 350+ AFL games, the, uh, 7 All-Time Australian. Mate, the 2008 Father of the Year, I can't wait to dig into that one a little bit. But, um, if you haven't figured out who yet, we've got someone who took the Swans from a 72-year drought to a premiership in 2005. But that's, uh, That's not all of who and what Paul Roos is about. That's what I love about you, Roosie, our connection so far, what we've gone through. And I can't wait to share some deeper, more intimate parts of your life, your journey and leadership and culture and everything else that we live and breathe, as you know, mate, from our interactions inside of HPF Coach and, and really what's so important and impactful for society. Uh, so mate, thank you for joining us. Can't wait to dive in. How you going?

Good to see you, mate. Thanks for having me on.

Yep, absolutely. Well, um, mate, let's, let's rip in. But what I love most, Roozy, what is what drives a man? You know, I'd love to know a little bit more about the life of Paul Roos before he became publicly known, and, and even further back, your upbringing, mate, if you would mind sharing a little bit about what led you to becoming the man that you were as you went into a professional AFL.

Yeah, there's no doubt. I mean, you know, some of the things we hear and learn and listen now, some I think are the bit of rhetoric, and, you know, sometimes you've got to take them with a grain of salt. But yeah, there's no doubt your upbringing plays a huge part in, you know, it doesn't shape you forever, but for me, if I look at— I grew up, you know, in a sort of new estate out in Donvale, eastern suburbs of Melbourne. Yeah, tennis courts, you know, big ovals. Yeah, I went to new primary school, new high school. Um, yeah, good group of mates, people that had the same sort of values. So Yeah, my life was sort of shaped— Mum and Dad were still together at that stage. I can touch on— they broke up when I was about 20 or 21. I can touch on that as well. But yeah, and it was traditional, you know. And when I say that, I don't want to offend anyone because we're pretty— we're easily offended in the world today. But it was pretty— Mum stayed home with the kids and Dad went to work. And yeah, Dad was the role model for this and Mum was a role model for that. And life was pretty simple back then, you know. You went to school, not much homework. I played sport pretty much every day, whether that was tennis, basketball, football. And I think a number of things probably stuck out for me. Clearly, I went on and played, you know, AFL football, but it was probably more the fun of sport, the teamwork of sport, the camaraderie of sport outside, you know, being active all the time. We only had 4 channels, mate. We could watch the Brady Bunch, we could watch Get Smart, we could watch F Troop, you know, etc., etc. But Oh, my son asked me a question once. He goes, Dad, and it was pretty, I don't know why, I actually didn't even ask him why he asked me, but he said, Dad, if you, if you could wind the clock back and you could grow up in any era, what would it be? And I didn't take me long to say, actually, I wouldn't change anything because what we see today, we didn't have. And I always say this to the boys. I said, I'm not sure there's anything we've got now that makes our life better. You know, really in, in real genuine, um, values, etc., etc. So yeah, it was obviously really important, you know. My, my parents had a brother and sister, older brother and sister. We went away with the family sort of every year. They had a— they had 3 kids, a boy, 2 boys and a girl. We got really close to them. My dad's parents were really healthy. They were up tennis court you know, the old working bee. I don't even know the working bee exists anymore. And yeah, they're always active. And yeah, so it was, you know, when I look back, you know, there's no question, you know, the Paul Roos before he went to Fitzroy, yeah, was pretty, pretty active and, and pretty healthy and had good role models around, you know, good role models around me. So yeah, they really shaped me before I went to the Fitzroy Footy Club.

It's funny you mentioned the, um, not much change, mate, because we've, we've had a few back and forths where we see like on, on Instagram with some of the nostalgic posts of the '80s and the '90s and being an '85 baby, but having an old Italian father and older brothers, I definitely feel that I was pulled towards the older generation, uh, which I loved, mate. But it's so true, like, how has tech increased or improved fundamental values and principles and how, if anything, it's probably made it worse, mate, and more detrimental because of the distraction, the conflicting value sets and belief systems. And, um, I agree, mate. It's a, it's something I said to one of my team, um, yesterday, actually, I said, Do people end up where they are in life because they're simple or because they make life more complex than it needs to be?

Oh mate, I 100% got a mate of mine. He's a little bit older than me, but we talk a lot about this thing. I just think we've overcomplicated life so much, you know, and that, and everything is overcomplicated. Think about picking up a phone and doing something with the bank. Guess what you used to do, mate? You used to walk in the bank. Take out your bank card, you know, your little folder, it's like a passport, slide it under the thing, get your money out and walk back out. So simple. Now people say, oh yeah, but I haven't got time. Hang on, the simp— now you get on the phone, press 1, and then you've got to press 2, and then you've got to press 3, and then you've got to speak to someone, then you've got to speak to someone else, and then someone hangs up on you, and then you've got to ring back again. And when I talk about simple, I'm talking about face-to-face. Conversations where you get an answer. If you don't get the answer you, you want, you ask another question. Okay. That make, oh, so you need me to do this? Yes, please, Mr. Ruse. Come back in tomorrow. Thank you very much. Yeah. So I, I don't think there's anything that I could think of now. If you said, Rusey, you know what, you have to go back to the '80s, what would you take with you? I wouldn't take anything. Maybe, maybe a mobile phone with all, without all the apps. Cause, cause we can then, if this was just used to communicate, communicate to people. Hey Alex, sorry mate, I'll be 5 minutes late. Fine. I think, or from a safety point of view, you know, just ringing someone, geez, I'm having trouble getting a cab. Can you stay on the line for me? Purely from a, I think that's the only thing that I would say, okay, give me the mobile phone without anything attached to it. That's probably the only thing I'd take back.

Yeah, and that's a double-edged sword, isn't it, mate? You know, it's, uh, I heard one of our members say, when you give your children access to the world, you give your world, the world access to your kids.

Yeah.

So that, that is that. I agree. That whole line of communication's fantastic. But also the reason why I still love pen and paper and journals is because that, that journal I have is useless for anything else other than the one thing I'm using it for. Whereas this thing, this phone, mate, ah, millions, millions of things that people use it for. It's crazy. And absolutely said, um, Which takes me back to sport. You mentioned sport quite heavily in your upbringing, and that's, uh, I think children always pave the way for us to realign to what matters in life, and it's that one thing. What am I focused on? It's Lego. I'm just focusing on building this Lego block or building this ramp with my toy monster trucks, as Roman likes to do. But what sort of impact do you think, like, sport does have and should have? I don't know if kids— it'd be good to see the stats actually, if more kids play sport these days or less, but how important did you feel sport was for you growing up and also for children in general? As they grow up, sport, the resistance and resilience they need to build against competing, winning, losing. Like what, yeah, what does that mean for you in terms of the upbringing and how important sport is for kids growing up?

I'll answer it two ways, one a bit differently. When the company I run now, Performance by Design, is a leadership company, you can always tell the guy or girl at an executive team that has played competitive sport as a kid. You can always tell. And the longer they continue to play sport, clearly at the higher level, but let's forget that I played AFL at a high level. I'm saying I can always tell, and I tend to go up to them afterwards and say, gee, you seem to get it. He goes, yeah, yeah, I played netball all the way up until I was like 32, and I played a lot of junior netball or whatever. So the answer to the question is it's imperative. You don't have to go and represent Australia at the Olympics or go to the World Cup in soccer. But the lessons you learn, even mate, things like, and I remember even things like, geez, it's cold tonight. I don't want to go to training. You're going to training tonight. You know, ah, mama, I don't want to go to training. It's raining. Son, you're going to training. You're part of a team. Think about today. And I've spoken to so many business owners that, and people, they say to me all the time, oh, Roozie, I get people that don't turn up to work. And I said, what do you mean? They said, well, they just don't turn up. I said, yeah, but they ring you and tell you they're not.

No, no, they just don't even turn up.

And then I'll ring them and they say, oh, I'm not coming in tomorrow either. So, and I, I, you know, I look at it and go, how is that, how is it actually possible that, you know, our value base has dropped so far? So, so, yeah, playing your role in sport, you know, like coaches pick you in a different position, you know, okay, deal with it. Yeah, getting your backside handed to you in a game, deal with it. You know, like, I just think there's so many lessons that— and at this, at the time when you're playing, you have no idea they're going to translate later on. But when you're playing, like, I, I talk a bit about this, you know, some of the stuff I do with Dylan and some of the stuff I do with Performance by Design. Um, you know, think about your role models, and you don't really think about them until you're older. You know, John Thompson was my under-13 football coach. Yeah, Rob Morgan coached me at the Nana Wining Spectres. You know, at the time, I don't realize how important those lessons are that they're teaching me, but I do later on in life. So, you know, I always say to the young boys I'm working with, with Dylan, is just think about now, be grateful to some of the coaches that you have, you know, some of the mentors. It's fundamental to get your kids in sport and keep them in sport as long as you possibly can.

Yeah, it's, it's wild to me. Like, I feel very blessed, mate, with the team I've got, but just ignoring your commitments, like you mentioned with work, it's like, I guarantee those people weren't part of a sporting team where they had to overcome um, you know, and resilience and persistence to follow through on something. But that's, uh, yeah, that, that, that's something else. But it's so true. Our daughter, she's pretty, pretty good at dancing, right? And same thing, like, she just, oh, my stomach aches, or it comes up with all these little weird little white lies. And, and, uh, I, I was actually more of a softie than my wife, but I'm glad that we've, we've pushed through on that because she's, uh, she does exceptional well. And all those, you think about all those, it's not even just those sessions that you bank, all those commitments you follow through on, it's It has, how does that shape your belief system? What you do and don't commit to, what you do and don't tolerate then when you become a leader? Because we all in some capacity lead something or someone or have people depend on us, right? Especially as you become a parent. But, um, yeah, mate, so you got, you got two boys and they're growing up, Dylan and Tyler. And, um, so you've, you've got, and a grandfather as well. So you, you've gone through all the different aspects of, of life and and you're very seasoned, but if you go back to being a young man, how did you make it make sense for you at 21 when, when, you know, I guess mum and dad, if you don't mind, you know, diving into when they parted ways and like, yeah, what was that experience like for you? Because we have a lot of men on the inside where that, that just happens, mate. It's part of life. People, people grow apart or go in different directions and, um, no one has a crystal ball, but, but yeah, what, what was that like for you, mate, in your experience?

I think if the ability to analyze and there's two components to most things in life. There's the emotional component and the analytical component. So what I'd say to the people listening, and this is really hard and I'll give you a couple of examples of this, but I think I had the ability to take the emotion and compartmentalize it and say, well, mum and dad splitting up is not great.

Yeah.

And I won't go into details of what happened, but You know, it's typical of sometimes when people break up, you know, there's another person involved. And then what's the analytical side? Okay. I can be upset at one of my parents, but the reality is the analytical side is they're still my parents. Okay. And I can't, and I'm not walking in both their shoes. I don't really know exactly why it's happened. But the reality is they're still my parents. Okay. So that was the, that's what I was able to adopt that mentality. Okay. So I want to have a good relationship with my mom and I want to have a good relationship with my dad and I'm going to have a stepmom eventually. Okay. So, you know, my mom didn't remarry at all, but so I sometimes We can do either. Sometimes we can get way too emotional, and that's probably the main thing that happens, mate, in these situations. We say or do something we should, we regret later on, and words are powerful. They're really powerful. All right. Once they're out there, it's sort of hard. You can always apologize, which I encourage people to do, but they're hard to take back. All right. So when these things happen. I think you've just got to try and— there's the emotion. Yeah, I'm disappointed. I'm sad. Things aren't going to be the same way, but this is the reality of the situation. How can we make it work?

Yeah, it's, um, and I guess that would vary depending on the ages too. Some kids are too young to know. And then, um, yeah. And did you have siblings yourself, mate?

Yeah, I have a brother and a sister. I think, I think Yeah, the flip side of that, mate, is what you're referring to is I just get surprised with parents that have kids, young kids in particular, as you're alluding to, and put their self-interest ahead. Like, that's where I don't understand that, but everyone's different. You know, again, ego can be really dangerous. You know, I want to damage my ex-husband or my ex-wife. Through my child. I mean, I don't, I just don't understand that logic. It just doesn't resonate with me. So I think the other aspect of what you're talking about, mate, is just tuck your ego away, whack it in the cupboard. All right. It's serving no purpose. Maybe you're feeling I got him back or I got her back or whatever, but the reality is you're going to regret it at some point. It's like a scoreboard. Am I in front of them? Ahead of my ex-wife, my ex-husband? Don't worry about, don't look at it as a scoreboard. Look at it through the lens of your son or your daughter. You know, if they were scoring you, like, how are you going? You know, if they knew the way you were treating your ex-husband or your ex-wife or them as a result of that, I think ego is a huge impediment in those situations, mate.

Yeah, I completely agree. I think where you have typically more emotional buy-in is where you're more susceptible at risk of that, you know, the ego. Like, so when you mentioned being too emotional as a child, you look at the parents and they always lose, the kids always lose. So I look at that and haven't experienced it myself, although I had a few breakdowns in my high school sweetheart and now wife and mother of four, Corinne. But, you know, it's very interesting when you look at it, like there's always ego at play and the parents, whilst they might You know, parade around saying I'm doing what's best for the child. There's always either skewed perspectives or a lack of teamwork or lack of, and is it the separation that has caused the trauma for the child and the adjustment to lifestyle? Or is it the interests where they, whether they can articulate it or not, depending on their age, they know energetically that they actually aren't being put first because of how mum and dad are acting. And that's, um, that's, that's, that's pretty rough. Um, Do you see that though across the board? I guess segueing into sport as well. Is that something you saw through obviously very high pressure, high stress, you know, seasons on the line, premierships on the line? Is that something you saw? Like, is that a universal thing, Roozy? It's not just in the family nucleus where you can see either relationships or, or the wrong agenda or intent through, through, through ego. And I guess with other players where standards, withholding, cliques, like what, what would you say are some of the key things you've seen? Because this is, I guess we're talking about culture as well, aren't we, in a way?

Yeah, look, it's funny. The longer I'm— 63 now— the longer I'm alive, the less I think you can separate yourself from your job or what have you. And that's why I talk about life balance, not work-life balance. And in that regard, to answer your question, mate, I'm a father when I'm coaching the Sydney Swans, and I'm the coach of the Sydney Swans when I'm at home. When I'm a player at Fitzroy, I'm still a brother and a guy. I still got a brother and a sister and a mum and dad. Like, it doesn't, it doesn't change because your environment changes. Now there's going to be some things that are slightly different. You know, I've seen guys that are, and you would have too, mate, that are most competitive guys on the field and the most gentle people off the field. Yeah, but fundamentally they're good people. You know, so it's hard to separate the two. And I was really lucky, mate, to see really good people at Fitzroy when I first arrived. And when I talk about it, they were good football players, but gee, they were good people. And I was really lucky to see that. So I think when you hear people say, yeah, well, that's just me at footy, it's a bit of a cop-out. There is going to be slightly different things, as I said, because it is a, it is a different environment. But I think it's a cop-out. When you see people doing really dumb stuff at a sporting team and not taking responsibility, we're all going to make mistakes. I'm not talking about just making the mistake. I'm talking about being the person who you want to be. I talk a lot about personal brand. Who do you want to be? Because there's a lot of distractions, mate. There's a lot of— No one wakes up. Let me talk about this yesterday to someone. No one wakes up and goes, gee, I reckon at 35, I hope people label me as arrogant, rude, and disrespectful. Yeah, that's my goal in life, to be 35 and be arrogant, rude, and disrespectful. So how does it happen? It happens because you let your environment or parts of your environment or this competitive nature and push for money, money, money, money trample over your values that you've been taught since you were, you were born, basically, if you were born to a really good family. It happens. You don't wake up suddenly and say, I want to be arrogant, rude, and conceited, and an absolute prick, do you? But we all know arrogant, rude pricks. So how does it happen?

It's such an interesting point, isn't it? I've got someone I know who works in aged care and they mention even people in their 90s, mate, you know, how they can be bitter and rude. And I remember saying to them, I said, uh, you know what, they'll probably like that most of their life. You know, like it's like just because you're elderly or, uh, but it is funny how you pay position that because through their own eyes, they would not see that or very few would like it. You'd be, you know, it'd be hard pressed to find someone who says, yeah, I absolutely want to be all of those things and seen that way too. Because social acceptance is a real thing for humans in what we crave. But for you, mate, like, so that's— yeah, yeah, so it's crazy. But culturally, you obviously carried something into professional sport. So what was it, knowingly or not, that you felt that you added to elite sport when you walked in as a player? And then what did your eyes see between the 25-year-old Roozy and a 45-year-old Roozy? What started to shape and change as well over time in terms of culture and the importance of that?

Yeah, well, I think something happened probably around the early '90s, mid-'90s, where coaches, when I first arrived, were part-time. Robert Walls was a schoolteacher. Yeah, we would arrive at training at 4, 4:15 at night. So it was a pretty brutal, straightforward industry. Yeah, don't do that, you effing idiot. You know, if you don't, you're going to get dropped sort of thing. So I was, and I consider myself lucky to spanning a couple of eras. Then all of a sudden, In the late '90s, well, mid-'90s, I went to Sydney and that was the only time I didn't have a job. So suddenly you had all these players that were now becoming full-time. So building relationships started to become really important. So the more empathetic coach came into vogue, you know, having more deep and meaningful conversations. Again, Wallsy and Parkin and these guys didn't have time to do that. And the environment was very, I tell, I tell, you do, I tell. All of a sudden, you know, mid-'90s, late '90s, it started to become, we decide, you know, what do you think about this? So I think what I was lucky, I probably had that empathy in me as a player. So I had that ability to be competitive. But compassionate. Um, and we had a pretty compassionate group of players and competitive. So I saw that lens. Yeah, we didn't win a premiership, we had some really good teams. I, I was able to see, I reckon it works. I think you can be a compassionate, caring sporting team and win a premiership. I, I'd say the notion when I first arrived at Fitzroy was you can't really be too yeah, caring and compassionate to win a Premiership. You just got to be hard as buggery and, and try and, you know, belt the living daylights out of your opponent sort of thing. So, so I was lucky. I think I had that in me. And then I saw that era of, you know, transitioning to being able to implement those systems and We won the premiership in 2005.

Hmm. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's so funny, mate. I think it's, it's probably my lens, Roozie, as well, given that the work that I'm, that I'm in and, and no doubt we, we're very aligned with our views on fathers and fatherhood and families, but everything you mentioned then takes me to a session I had with a parenting expert talking about, and I don't know where their source of study was, but the carrot and the stick, and they went through generations. On whether parents raise their children with the carrot or the stick. And, um, and my old man being Italian, geez, he's got some wild stories. You know, I thought it'd be rough on me sometimes, but there's nothing compared to what he had. But also, he wasn't bad. And we talk about the Viking and the Panda, right, with some of our HPF Coach protocols. But I agree. And just to reference that, guys, like, the carrot is obviously like, you could tie that to emotions of being compassionate, driving towards goals, vision, and a love and emotion towards something you pursue together as a team. And then the stick is like Here's the punishment and the cost. And the, you know, I guess if you want to tie it back to what you're saying, and I agree, man, I think you can have both. And then that's what I, that's what first drew me to you, seeing that in a man, you know, it's not, it's all one thing to be a powerful man, but do you really respect someone who's, who's so over-indexed on one, one, one way of being as opposed to, um, you know, being able to have that life balance, as you mentioned, not just across your priorities, but also how you carry yourself. Do I have a measured approach? Um, and then obviously you've got men on the other end of the spectrum who possibly too soft, too weak. And don't ever push towards anything, which you can't be a leader without, right? But, um, you know what, I think you've hit the nail on the head.

I think when I look at my coaching career and even as a parent, I think they're— that's what I said before, they're so interlinked. Like, it's when do you use the carrot and when do you use the stick? That is, if you ask me, and great you brought up, mate, if you said to me, Roozy, what's the trick to being a good dad or a good HPF Coach. When do you use the carrot and when do you use the stick? It's a really, really good analogy for being a good parent. And there are, and that's why like having people around you is really important because you might think you need the stick. Your wife says, hang on, Alex, I reckon we probably need the carrot in that situation. Oh, okay. Tell me more. Tell me more. That's why we have assistant coaches. That's why we have groups that you form, mate, because we're not always right. I've never met an individual that is 100% right 100% of the time. But the carrot and the stick analogy is so, so true.

Yeah, and that willingness to be open, mate, like that's one of our tenets is student for life with HPF and that's something that whilst I can be firm on my decisions, when I'm all in, I'm all in. Um, I love what you mentioned there because the cohort of HPF Coach really is about having that, that togetherness in, in not being so— especially things you touched on recently like divorce and separation. Don't be so narrow-minded or have the blinkers on. Have you thought about this? And just, just opening the possibility and doing that with strong men. I remember hearing a professor say, uh, only a man can keep another man in check, and he's talking about, you know, masculine energy and how it's just so distorted today as a bad thing, which drives me nuts, mate. But maybe that's for another time we could talk about. But you know, it's, uh, it's, it's so important to have that, that unified voice, but also what's the intent, you know, because you could be getting influence from the wrong people, even if it's through a screen, not in person. But, uh, but, but I love that and that willingness to, to be open. Um, walk me through if you have any stories, mate. I'd love to know a bit more about how your discernment was able to, one, where did you learn when maybe you used the stick when you should have used the carrot and two, When did it click, um, and what was the outcome?

Yeah, a big moment in 2005. So we'd played— I'd been coaching there for 2 and a half years. We played against, ironically, the West Coast Eagles, who we'd beat in the grand final that year, and we got beaten about round 6 or 7 by, oh, 40, 50 points, and we just stopped playing for each other. And I remember walking down the box, and this was probably a combination of stick and carrot, but more stick. And I really launched into the team after the game because I just felt— and again, this is the combination we're talking about. This is a calculated, non-emotional response. All right. Because footy's emotional, as you know. Like, I was really calculated. I was walking from the coach's box down to the rooms. We're going nowhere right now. We are literally going nowhere. I don't have to be the coach because I want to see this team win a premiership. That's the only reason I'm here. I'm not here because I want to coach for 12 years and I'm just here because I think I can help this group. So as I'm walking down, it's carrot, stick, emotion, you know, logic, all going through my mind at once. And I remember arriving in the room, said, nah, I'm done. Like, this is, this is, we're not. And I literally said to the players, I said, guys, I'm wasting my time because you've stopped playing for each other. Yeah, it's, it's, this is ridiculous. If you want me to go, I'll go. But it's, but mate, it's the combination of, of all of them. You know, it's clearly sometimes footy in particular. Like, I saw the stick come out all the time, and I saw relationships get burnt by that because the emotion just overrides the logic. You know, players are hurting after a game, as you know. So I wrote down a list of things when I retired in October 1998.

All right.

And it was no doubt a reason I won the Premiership. And one of them was, after the game, if you've got nothing to say, don't fly off the handle. Wait until Monday. So that was really, really valuable. I always talk to leaders, if you don't have to make decisions under pressure, don't. Okay, wait until Monday. If you do, find a way to calm yourself down. Yeah, so I, you know, it's probably half a dozen times I could think, you know, one game we lost it when I was coaching Melbourne. They probably just weren't equipped at this stage. I hadn't coached them long enough to get them. Yeah, a couple of players did the wrong thing late in the game. Yeah, I whacked a water bottle off the table. Yeah, just garbage like that. That doesn't make you feel good, you think, but doesn't really help. It doesn't sort of help anyone, to be honest. Yeah. So, and that's why good people around you is really important. I remember in that situation, someone, the coaches sort of covered for me a bit, which was good. And we were able to, you know, rail it, rein it back in a bit. So good people around you. Yeah, it becomes really, really important.

Hmm. The, yeah, and agreed. You hear that saying, don't you? The sum of the people you hang around and it's, it's so true as you get older as well. Um, I feel blessed because it's like my, my tribe is like 98% of my life. So it's, it's, it's, and then I'll hear the odd thing just in general or the public and that's not criticizing anyone who's not in, in HPF, but it's, you'll be like, oh wow, that's a, that's really interesting. I can fantasize or entertain that. Way of thought, but then if I go off into the future, wow, that path doesn't lead, that's a dead end road. That doesn't serve me. It's time to lever you back. And I completely agree. The playing for each other. So you literally said that you're not playing for each other. Is that, is that right?

Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Yeah.

That's, uh, that's powerful, mate. Cause I, we, we talk about, especially a lot of men who struggle in relationships and whatnot, we, the problem is they become too fixated on that, which leads to them overreaching. If you make something greater than, you're less than. And if it's a person, a person. And it's a tough, it's a subjective measure. When you're talking about that though, what I feel anyway, I could be wrong, is you're putting a mission or a purpose above the individual. Like, is that what you, like, do you believe like having a mission or a purpose that's greater than the individual? Is that the core essence of what drives? Because playing for each other, that's a lot different to you're not listening to me and I'm the coach. It's you guys are letting each other down. Like, I love that, mate. That's awesome. I mean, I get good times. I think back to when I was playing footy, but also with how we keep each other accountable. These days. But, um, what are your thoughts on that? Like having a mission or a purpose that's greater than the individual that brings the collective up but also improves them as individuals. Have you seen that play out through sport and in life as well?

Yeah, absolutely. But I think I'll talk about sport because in that instance, you know, you've got to define who you are. You know, we went down to Coffs Harbour and, you know, we defined what's the Bloods culture, what are the behaviours, etc., etc., what do we want to achieve. So bringing people along for the ride is really important. You know, when I coached the Sydney Swans, I remember Tammy, my wife, I think Dylan and Tyler were pretty young at the time, like 4 and 5. We, we coached the Swans, not me. And I had a discussion with, with Tammy. I said, this is our job to coach the Swans. This is not my job to coach the Swans. And the boys were like 3 and 4 and they're like, oh, Dad, we'll never see you. We don't want you to coach. It was pretty funny. But by the end of my tenure, When I told them I was going to give it away, they said, no, dad, no, no, no, don't give it away. Don't give it away because they felt part of it. All right. So this is the important thing, trying to make that connection that you asked about, mate. This is not just about a, because people, one of the things that drives me crazy when I'm doing a workshop at Performance by Design is, is like, oh, you guys got a common goal and, you know, yeah, we'll find one. You know, like, what do you mean we have and what you don't? You don't have a common goal. Well, why are you on the executive team? If you don't have a common goal, you know, you're here for the company. You're here for the family. You're here for your kids. You're here for, but guess what most people, and this is where, and I've had a lot of discussions with my wife and a few friends about this. The problem is, mate, the currency in the world right now is competition and money. That's the currency that exists. How much money can I make and who can I kick the shit out on the way to get, make that money? We now, now that's why the, the individual or the collective around you is so important because that's the driving force and that's why people become pricks because they get consumed by the driving force. What you are talking about is what is my, what is Purpose. Money is an end result. Money happens, you know, whatever. There's outcomes and there's processes. What you do really well, mate, with your group is processes. What we did at Sydney really well is processes. What I hope I did with my family is processes. These are the processes. Now, where that ends up, don't worry about where it ends up. The process is to have a collective goal, to go down to Coffs Harbour and find the Bloods culture, all right, to hold each other accountable to that. And when we don't do it, we tell each other. We build really strong relationships with each other. We're honest with each other. And then eventually we reached our goal in 2005 by doing that. But it's not always smooth sailing and you've got to be prepared to have those conversations. And that's in your family. And that's why, mate, as you and I spoke about, your group is so important, mate, because not everyone gets a chance to run on the MCG and play for the Sydney Swans. But everyone can have a tribe. Everyone can have a group of people that, that supports them. And then, and again, whether it's fathers or mothers, you know, don't isolate yourself. You know, there's a lot of, lot of dads and a lot of mums out there. It's not like it's hard to find a, a group of people that are going through similar things to you. I think isolation is probably one of the biggest problems. Look at COVID. You know, the things that are created through isolation. So what you are doing, mate, is so important to, you know, the fathers, you know, high performance. What does that really, 'cause a lot of them, you know, it's easy to just get in this groove of whether it's work or whether it's money or whether you do everything for your kids or, and nothing for yourself, like whatever that But it, but as soon as you widen your group, oh, I didn't really look at it that way. Now I understand why it's important for me to go to the gym in the morning. I thought that was selfish. Now I understand why it's important to go for a run in the afternoon or take the dog for a walk or, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So you have to expand yourself to potentially understand what your purpose is. Sometimes you find it organically or really quickly, but not everyone's able to do that. So explore it. What am I doing? Is what I'm doing right? Am I who I want to be? If you aren't, self-assessment, mate. How many people just self-assess at the end of the week? Was I the person I wanted to be this week? Was I the husband I wanted to be this week? Was I the father that I wanted to be this week? Was I the brother I wanted to be this week? Well, you know, you know what I mean? Assess what you want to be and keep holding yourself accountable to that person.

Yes.

I've already got a full page of notes, Rizzi. This is what I love for you. I'm always, uh, always listening, always learning and, uh, incredible stuff. And you're right about not isolating, you know, like we all have tough times, guys, but creating your own echo chamber. With some of those thoughts, it serves you and those you love and care about who depend on you. No justice and no good. But the processes, mate, that's what I really, that's what I've just written down here, processes and then an arrow, control. Like if people just, the outcome, fine. Yeah, we have something where we call the pink elephant rule, right? Don't think about the pink elephant. It's exactly what we are, which is the whole point. Most people think about what they don't want in life or outcomes and they're either living in the past or the future. Whereas for us, it's like, no, you spend 3% of your time, let's say we do an exercise for, you know, an hour, spend 3% of that time, so short, sharp, and what you don't want, then spend 6%, which is double, on what you do want. What's that true north, right? So that's the destination. And then the other 91% is, how am I going to get there? What's the plan? What are the actions? And that's what you mentioned, mate. It gives you more control. It gives you more direction. Um, and that whole assessment itself, like that sort of stuff allows you to, to, to redirect. Um, I remember hearing it, it might have been Jim Rohn, I'm not sure, but he said, uh, people don't need to be informed as much as they just need to be reminded. Like a lot of our stuff is so simple, mate. It's not like it's— get structure in your life and look after yourself physically and mentally. Going to the gym isn't to get biceps in your 40s, 50s, or 60s. It's to maintain clarity of thought, mind, self-investment, be more to give more, and, um, you know, skills around leadership, consistency. And it's just reminding, and that's That's what I was chatting to my brother the other day, like drift, man, that's the biggest threat, Roozy, to everyone because of technology, the world, an overwhelming saturated level of attention and distraction that comes from all these temptations, so to speak. It's wild, mate. And that's where we really focus on maintaining what that true north is for you, having a team to keep you accountable because we're all susceptible, myself included. Drift might look different for me than it does for Bill and for Andrew, but it. No, it's, it's absolutely, um, a universal threat. But, um, no, I love that, mate. And then the mission stuff is, it's, it's quality. I've given up everything for HPF Coach, and I'll tell you, I love it. I do it a million times over. If you told me back 8 and a half years ago, I probably would have said, oh, I might do something else. But I'm lucky that I've, I've been seasoned over time to, to be resilient enough to go through some tough times. But I've shared that, you know, selling everything when we nearly died several years ago and going, but That's the mission, man. That's what you're talking about. It's, it's, um, and then servant leadership, no doubt, which is what you, what you embody. But what family, did the family see the same Porus that the rest of the world did? Like, walk me through, I don't know if culture is the word, maybe it is, like the culture at home, is it the same as like, how did you maintain consistency across the two? Because they are different humans, right? You've got, you've got Tammy and your two young, young boys, and then you've got these bustling men all thriving to wit, like, yeah, how did you create that? I guess that crossover.

Yeah, it's a good point. With Performance by Design, we do a lot of profiling now and I hadn't done it when I was actually coaching. Now I understand what I was doing. I probably didn't understand it then exactly what I was doing. Now, just to give you a simple, we use a tool called Insights Discovery. Now, red is, you know, the, the itel, you know, the high red is an eagle. A blue is a dove. So reds and typically the older, and I don't want to pigeonhole anyone, so don't get too caught up in this, but I'm just going to give you an idea. The old CEO was always red. They just made decision, decision, decision. Blue, really analytical, which is typically your accountants, engineers. Greens are very empathetic, call them the dove, nurses, childcare work. And again, without pigeonholing, yellows. Yeah, vibrant yellows, the peacock, you know, salespeople, marketing people. Now again, bearing in mind I'm answering your question and I didn't know, I think when I now look, I'm a green-blue, which is actually an introverted, empathetic, analytical person. Football is a very red sport. Okay. So whilst you want to be yourself fundamentally, to be a great leader, you have to get in and out of the colors. Does that make sense? So as a green, I had to be red a lot of the time. All right. So I had to have the ability to be able to do that. And I think without knowing it, mate, I did have the ability to be the green, yeah, goofy dad with the kids and then go to football and have the difficult conversations with, as I articulated one before, at the time I had no idea I was sort of switching out of my person. And everyone, we all have colors. We all have the colors in us. It's just some are more prominent than others. We talk about above the line. So anything above the line, 50-something percent, is your natural personality. So I think for people out there, probably the message I'd say, mate, is sometimes you're going to be uncomfortable as a leader. All right? Sometimes you're going to be uncomfortable. And when I talk about leader, I'm talking about at your job, at home, at sport. It's going to be uncomfortable. If you are looking at leadership as staying in your personality and being comfortable all the time, I don't care whether you're a green, yellow, blue, or red, you're going to be a terrible leader. You're not going to be a great leader. So I think I had the capacity, mate, at the time to be able to go, okay, this is dad time. Yeah, we've had a bad loss, but I still want to be attentive with my kids, read a book at night, you know, do those sort of things, have a bit of fun. So would people say, I'd say there's a slight difference between Paul Roos the coach and Paul Roos the dad, but not a dramatic, not a dramatic difference. I can give a spray to my kids. I can give a spray to the, I can give a spray to the players. You know, I can wrap my arm around my kids. I can wrap my arm around my players, you know. So I think I have the ability. So again, my message is, mate, don't let who you are get in the way of who you need to be. All right. I'll say that again. Don't let who you are get in the way of who you need to be.

That's brilliantly put. It has to be a skill though, Roozy. You mentioned, see, people associate compartmentalizing as a negative, but it sounds like that's something you did early in life. Is this the same thing? It has to be a skill you're building here on knowing who to be what and when. And like you said, don't let who you are get in the way of who you need to be. Would you agree?

I think so. I think I think it is a skill. It's a, people talk about leadership a lot and things. I'm sorry, you're not born. It's, you know, you're born with certain traits, I believe, but you're not born as a leader or not a leader. You can learn anything in life, I believe. Yeah, you're going to have strengths and weaknesses, as I've already said. But yeah, I think you, mate, you said before, listening is an underrated skill. Stepping back. You know, watching interactions with people, you know, not stepping in too early, you know, and I'm talking about, you know, your formative years, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, when you're first job. Listening is an underrated skill. You know, great listeners, I reckon, fundamentally become really good at whatever they choose to do because they've been able to take in, particularly if you're in a lot of different environments, you know. But we all know people, mate. You would have seen them at footy clubs. Yeah, like, I don't want to go to this function tonight. I don't want to talk to the— I used to say to the guys, even if you don't want to be there, take advantage of the people that are going to be there. Here's the list, guys. This guy's a CEO of Ford. This guy's such and such. This person, this lady works for such and such. Go down here. Even if you don't want to be there, take advantage of the opportunity. I think too many times we just wander through life with blinkers. My wife wants me to go, take your blinkers off. You never ever know what you're going to learn.

And it's just a thief. And one, what you said, spot on. You never know what opportunity and where it comes from is such a mystery, which makes it attractive. I love that, mate. Just like what you and me have been building together. But at the same time, It just robs them of joy and having that enjoyment and fulfillment. Because I look back at like, whether it's a function or whether it's doing autographs for kids, like, mate, like, you think you're going to have this forever? Like, you know, like it's just, and whether it's expectations that removes appreciation or not. And we fall, we all fall short, I think, with that too, mate, where I just expect my wife to look after Florence, you know, and it's like, hang on a minute. How about I actually really show some appreciation and, and, and, and have some fun and joy where I can with my wife and acknowledging that she does so much, not she should because she's a mum. So, and, and I think I saw that when I was playing footy at times and it's not, you know, I get it where we all have our moments, but yeah, I saw that where there were proper star players in first grade footy and the attitude. I was like, man, I would, I would kill to be able to provide that service to children who would look up to me like that, who don't see me because I'm a nobody, I'm a reserve. I'm like, I would, I would kill to, to fill their cups with, with, with, with seeing the smile on their face. Like, mate, but yeah, I get, like you said, you know, it's everyone's different. I guess it's a, it is a skill too on how you, how you channel and focus what, what's important and apply yourself accordingly. That profile, I mean, I'd love to know more about, um, Performance by Design, but, but just before that, mate, like the profiling, And that's really important, isn't it? Like it's, you're getting awareness of why you're wired the way you are. And then like you said, who you need to be. But what, just before I dive, cause I'd love to know about what you're doing, mate, with your leadership stuff in Performance By Design. But I want to go back to the 2008 Father of the Year. Like, how did you feel? Like, walk us through, I guess, that moment and some reflecting. You've no doubt had huge accomplishments. Meant at that stage of your life. But what, what was that like for you, Roozy? And how did you feel when you were looking over? And the world's changed again, you know, in nearly 20 years. But yeah, how was that for you, mate? And what sort of reflections and takeaways did you get through, through that time?

Yeah, well, look, it was an incredible honor. Like, um, sort of some of the things you find easy, I find it pretty relatively easy to talk about, but some of the more, um, emotional things are harder, you know, like to be named Australian Father of the Year. And I know it's sort of somewhat symbolic, you know, because we you can't measure up on how many fathers there are in Australia, but I mean, it's not like it's a, it's a race or a survey or an exercise. So you, you, yeah, you put it into some sort of perspective, but still, like, it was a great honor. Like, and I think the reason I took it as such an honor is because I, I knew I'd worked at it. I knew that being a father was really important and to be rewarded. And I didn't need the reward because I valued being a father and a husband so much. I didn't need anyone to validate me, but probably because people sort of saw me as a coach that had really good balance. I think it was symbolic for them as much as it was for me that we can be great at what we do and we still can be a great father and a great husband and a great, yeah, because there's this sort of, I don't know how to call it a misconception because that's not right. Everyone, as you said, everyone's different, but there's sort of this perception that to be successful, you have to give up everything else. It's, it's, I think it's garbage. Yeah. Now depending on what you do and all those sorts of things.

Yeah.

By that, I mean it's garbage in a sense that, you know, whatever time you want to put into being the father, you can do that. You know, you can read your kids a story at night. You know, it doesn't take, you know, you don't have to go on a holiday to Aspen for 3 weeks or go to Disneyland to be a great father. I think, and this really hit me, I did a session with Dylan. It was, I think it might've been around Father's Day or our UK Day, and they knew Dylan was mentoring young kids and he was my son and without notice. So he was asked on the, there was a Zoom call and all the staff were listening and he said, and the MC said, oh, Dylan, what's your greatest memory of your dad as a coach? And I thought he would say, cause he literally got up on the dais when we won the Premiership in 2005. Yeah, got to carry the cup, got to sing the song with the players after the game, got to hang out with, you know, Kirkie and Goodzie and Barry Hall and all those guys. And you know what his answer was? He said, I remember my dad would fly home on the midnight flight from Perth to coach me on a Sunday. That, that, that was his answer. Yeah. So when I think when people get it wrong is they wait for the big moments and because they're so busy, the big moments never come. Stack the little moments, stack the little moments. And then if the big moments come, fantastic. If they don't, your kids aren't going to worry about it. But if you're not stacking the little moments, That's when you, that's when you're getting it wrong.

That's incredible insight, mate. It really is. And it's so true. If the, I was just writing that, if you wait for the big moments, you, you get so busy that the big moments never come. That's unreal. Uh, I was gonna, when we're talking about, so the, the kids or when they were kids, sport the difference between the family and juggling that, wearing the different car. I'd love to do that profiling too, by the way. That'd be amazing. Um, I was going to ask like, how do you discern what you do and don't tolerate? But I think you're addressing a lot of that, mate, in, in what drives you at the core. You know, your outlook on things, knowing who you need to be versus who you are, that self-awareness, your principles and what you stand for and values. Would that be true? How do you know what to tolerate, not tolerate, I guess, in general, mate, even now?

Is this— yeah, I think again, I think what we spoke about earlier, mate, keep it simple. All right. I think because of Instagram and because of all this social media, what the kids see as normal isn't normal. All right. So who has to define what is normal for them? It's you and I, and things haven't changed that much in 50 years that being late to training wasn't normal back then. It shouldn't be normal now. Like going to a party at 16 wasn't normal back then. Why should it be normal now? I think we've overcomplicated discipline because of the external factors. Yeah, but Mary's allowed to go to the party. She's only 16. To be on. I don't give a fuck what Mary's allowed to do. It— I couldn't care less. That is hard because Mary's got a friend called Michael and Jane and, and they're all going to the party. That's, that's the difficulty. And Dylan, again, working with Dylan's been really cool because he talks about a lot of these things now through the lens of a 32-year-old. And he talks about, Dad, yeah, I rang Dad up one day He said, I said, I, you know, can I stay at Maxwell's house for the night? I said, who's there? Mum and dad? Nah, nah, I'm coming to pick you up. What do you mean you're coming to pick me up? Mate, I'm coming to pick you up. Your parents aren't there, you're not staying. And he talks about how important that was when back then he was like, you're an asshole, you know why? All my friends are allowed to stay, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So now he's got, now he's got the lens to look at it. What our job as parents is, is to use that lens that they haven't got to make decisions for them. And a lot of times we're abdicating that responsibility now.

100%. And you mentioned earlier that leadership is an uncomfortable thing and that's, you know, being a great leader. What I found, Roozie, and you attribute to it as well, mate, is that the greater you become as a leader, the more you look to actually serve, the more you've learned, the more you value in life, the more you try and keep things more simple instead of complex and, and look how smart and clever I am. It's, uh, it's incredible. But that's the willingness to, to be disliked but do the right thing. That's a real roadblock, isn't it, mate, for leadership? People like, like, especially with parents, like, and, and that's that fine line of, no, I'm going to make the right decision even if you're kicking and screaming because I can see more and before. I love John Maxwell for that. He's, he's brilliant. He's got bloody 100 books or something. But he talks about that, seeing more and before, and yeah, making those— that's the whole point of leadership, you know. Um, yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, it actually takes me out too.

As a parent, you're trying to put old head on young shoulders really quickly, as quick as you can. Now, the only way you can do that is by having a disciplined approach, because let's be honest, we're all kids at one stage. If you're a kid, what do you want to do? Do you want to do something that's really hard and disciplined, or do you just want to do whatever you want to do all day? Not go to school, sleep in, hang out, go and have a kick of the footy with your mates. Yeah, go to a party on Friday night. Imagine the anarchy if we let 10-year-olds do whatever they wanted to do and 12-year-olds and 14-year-olds and 16-year-olds. And then eventually they get to a point where, and this is where it becomes easy because the more disciplined you are earlier, the better the decisions they're going to make later in their teens. I don't think it's going to be the opposite. Oh, well, I'll tighten it up when they get to 17, 18. I'll let them do whatever they want from 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. And then suddenly I'll jump in. Good, good luck. Good luck doing that.

Yeah, no chance. And then the world will swallow them whole, mate, when they enter the real world. Imagine that. Yeah, you got no— they got no spine, mate. They turn to jelly. It'd be so— it'd be so tough. Um, and I do feel lucky like that. The old boy pushed us hard, admittedly through sports first, but then, uh, through, through some hard life lessons that we had to fail on our own. It was— and there's so many times, Ruzie, that I just wanted him to save me too. I'm like, oh, Dad, can just, yeah, why doesn't Dad just— this, this is— and I feel disgusted saying it, but it's like, why doesn't Dad just, you know, just give me an extra $500, man? I just, I just want to get that thing. And this is me as a teenager. I'm like, you don't mind being an elite athlete, but you, you, you know, you're having bitterness towards your old man not giving you money because he— to bail you out. It's like, mate, it's fucking disgusting. So it's, uh, even as an athlete, there was still those, those susceptible moments of, why can't Dad make it easy for me? Whereas now I'm like, I'm so I'm so grateful that he was, he was firm, but I might have to chat to you offline a bit more, mate. My daughter Stella's, um, nearly 10 and she's got a few Marys of herself. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. Starting to get the whole iPads and phones.

I'm like, mate, you're not even 10. Yeah, 100%. That's the challenging part. Yeah, it's so challenging.

Oh, shit, but, um, life balance. You started to dive into that. Um, and then, and I asked you about tolerance, mate. I'd love to know like your philosophy around, around that. I love the term. We've spoken a little bit about it when we caught up in Sydney, but what I'd love to know more about that. And then, and then mate, walk us through Performance by Design. I'm really interested in that. And I think a lot of our guys, yeah, we, we all walks of life, sure. But a lot of our HPF Coach guys are, you know, business owners or driving hard in terms of leadership and impact. So we'd love to, to, to know that mate, life, life balance. And then also tell us a bit more about Performance by Design.

Yeah, I just think this notion that the reason I don't like the term work-life balance because it sort of separates the two. Like, as I said before, like, I don't care what your role is, but when you go to work, you still have a father or you still have a brother, whatever your family. It's not like they've disappeared because you're working 10 hours a day at an office. And then when you go home, you know, it's not like you aren't the CEO or you aren't running the business or you aren't coaching the Swans. So my point around that is I think if you look at it as life, then you're able to integrate both into each other. So then it becomes one melting pot. Now there's certain things clearly, you're not gonna bring your wife and kids to a board meeting at the office. I'm not gonna sit them in the coach's box, but it just gives you a different perspective of when can I involve them? When do I exclude them? When have I spent too much time at work? When have I spent too much time with the family? When is my life getting out of balance because I'm not attributing enough to this particular bucket? If you talk about work-life balance, it's never going to be 50% anyway. What's that mean? Or is it supposed to be 80/20 or is it 70/30? Who's the custodian of what work-life balance looks like? Whereas life balance, you can self-assess it. You can, gee, I didn't get home last night to read my daughter the bedtime story. Now there's a reason I didn't, but gee, I don't have as much work today. I'm gonna make sure I get home to do that. I'm not gonna miss that 2 nights in a row. So again, a lot of it's got to do with just self-assessing, but not putting them in 2 different buckets. I think if you're doing that, you're never gonna get it right, because it's never gonna be 50/50. But if you'd say, this is my life, this is my job, and this is who I am, but they're all rolled into one and I'm going to try and make it work.

Yeah. And you know what I love about you, Izzy? I just picked up on, but no doubt it's always been there, just the extreme ownership, mate. Everything you share has that go within, inner awareness, reflecting. Like it's awesome. You just, you don't see that even in leaders, mate. You don't see that often. It's the strategy or the tactic or the next shiny object, as opposed to going, no, no, go to the fucking core. Make sure you discover who you are, what you stand for, who you need to be to those that matter, what actually matters in your life. And I love that, mate. I don't know if that's a, um, definitely wasn't an accident, something that you've no doubt built over time, but that's a real, that's a big thing, mate. Would you agree that ownership, that's coming from everything you're sharing, it starts inside with you?

Yeah, it does. And I think that going And I think it stems from when I went to Fitzroy. I can't exactly— I mean, I think part of it's my makeup, but they owned it. Like, Gary Wilson, he was our most talented player and he's our hardest working player. I never seen— I never saw Gary make an excuse in his life. I'm still good friends with him now. He's 70-something years of age. I've never seen him make an excuse. Mickey Conlon, Bernie Quinlan never made excuses. Like, Wallsy never made excuses. It wasn't someone else's fault. It was always their fault. You know, I didn't play well today. I can train harder. Yeah, I can be a better teammate. Yeah. And always holding the younger guys accountable. Geez, don't do that. We don't do that here, sort of thing. So I think, I think that's where it sort of stemmed from, to be honest, that this, this ownership that was taken when I first arrived, I was 16 when I arrived at Fitzroy. So to see these talented, great players taking ownership for their careers and not blaming anyone else or not relying on just natural talent. I think that was a real— oh, you know, because I, I became a little bit lazy at 16 and 17 in my sport, and I had to make a conscious decision too. Gee, do I really want to be an AFL player? Because this is tough, you know. Then once you do it, there's no other option at Fitzroy than to take personal accountability for it. So that's, yeah, I think that's something that I hold strong. It's fine to blame others, but what's your role in it first? Yeah. And then there's going to be factors that you can't control, but what can you control first and foremost? Try and control them. And then the things that contributed to your success or failure that you can't control, all right, what role did they play? And and how can I navigate that situation as well? So leadership's not easy and I talk about it. If you think you're going to go to a leadership conference and get a magic pill about leadership, you're kidding yourself. Leadership is really complex and really challenging, but keep it simple. And I'll follow on, but Performance by Design is pretty much all the things we've spoken about, mate. How do we get a group of executives together, get company together, their purpose, values, their behaviors, particularly their behaviors. What do we want to hold each other accountable to? Culture's really simple. It's what we reward and what we challenge. We've spoken a lot about that in the last hour. We do the profiling, which is really cool because a lot of times conflict just comes up because we just see things differently to someone else. But if we've got a framework for how we work, this is who we are.

Okay.

These are our profiles. Build strong relationships. We believe the strength of our relationships will determine the strength of our conversations. Yeah, if we get on really well, then we'll be prepared to have honest conversations. So it's a framework that we put in place and then we coach and review, coach and review, coach and review. Everyone wants accountability. If we can get ownership before accountability, all right, who are we? What do we stand for? And own it ourselves. We have built this ourselves. Similar to Swans at Coffs Harbour, where they built it, they built the Bloods culture. We then picked our leadership group, we built strong relationships, and then we started to have really good conversations. We didn't do the profiling, which I wish we had of, but fundamentally that's what Performance by Design is.

Yeah, it sounds incredible. Looks incredible too from what I've seen with the events. And is it, would the, if guys wanted to know more, mate, just on that, would they go direct to their website? What would be the best way? Because, um, We've got plenty of guys who run exec teams.

Yeah, definitely. Just go to the website, www.performancebydesign.co, or follow me on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. So any of the people in your community are listening to this, just, just jump on LinkedIn, send me a message and I'll get back to you pretty, pretty quickly.

Yeah. Hardest, but like you said, very tough, hardest, but one of the most rewarding things, leadership, mate. I'll tell you, it's, but it's right there. Everything you mentioned, it's right there. Like we've all been victims of trauma, but holding onto a victim mentality, mate, like just those, And it blows me away. You hear those statements and it's like, it's just diminishing your power. How does that fucking help you? Like when you're, when you're saying, giving these excuses, it just strips or control was the word you said. It just strips that away from you. But, um, even with things like life balance, I love the way that you put it and how you explain it, mate. You know, we, we, and again, statements like I need more, I need more work-life balance as people say, it's like, yeah, but that's, that's rearview mirror stuff. Like you're looking at something. It's like checking data, it's already passed as opposed to what you, what sounds like you've done really well and clearly shown and described. It's not so much statements like that. It's how do I get better at balancing? That's a skill, isn't it, mate? You know, that's, that's, that's more, yeah.

Definitely.

Definitely. More forward focus. Yep. What would be, let's say you and I, mate, I can't believe that the time it's been, it's been awesome. We could probably do a 4-hour session, mate, but I'm conscious of your time too, Roozy, because I know you, uh, You live in Hawaii, don't you, mate, with Tammy? Is that right, mate?

Yeah, we live in Hawaii. She's from California, so we've settled over there, but we're back in Australia a fair bit. One of the boys is in South Yarra where I am at the moment. My other boy's in Tweed Heads South. So we come back and forwards a lot, which is, yeah, which again is probably a result, you know, that some of the things you've spoken about, you know, we get on planes pretty regularly. We make decisions pretty quickly. We try not to look back. We try and look forward. What, what's next? You know, when can I see Dylan? When can I see Tyler? When can I see Raina, my grandson? You know, when I saw my family last night. So yeah, you're right. Like, um, yeah, the ability to be flexible within a somewhat inflexible world is, is, is really important as well. Yep.

And, uh, and on that, mate, with, with, with Raina, like, walk me through, because as, as you would remember, nothing changed. Well, for me anyway, nothing changed in my life more than when you see the baby get born, the first baby, and it's like, wow, like it's a weird, no one can describe it. Like men won't understand until they become fathers or parents in general, but men and women, but is that same thing happen or is it a bit different? Like when you become a grandfather first time, like what's the look, what's the perspective, what's it like, mate?

I tell you what is really interesting. I reckon, cause when you're a father, you're so immersed in it. I think as a grandfather, you've got a helicopter view and I've picked up so many more things from Rayner as in what his awareness, whereas with Dylan and Tyler, you're in it. Whereas with Rayner, I'm like, wow, that's really interesting. How important, and you touched on it before, how important his environment is. Gigi picked that up really quickly. Like, and you probably know it when you're a dad. But you're doing so many things. Whereas a grandfather, you're observing a lot, you know, and I'm, and I'm watching Rayna, like they learn so quickly from their environment around them. So again, the message to dads is be conscious all the time what you're doing around your kids. And I, and I, and I probably didn't have that awareness when I was a dad. But now I do, and I look at Dylan and I look at what I do, and I'm just so much more conscious with Rayner of everything around him because I'm not immersed in it as much. And that's probably my biggest takeaway.

It is funny, mate. I'll come into the office here and I'll just see like, I'll see a video and there's Lillian, like with my glasses, the microphone, this phone that's been ripped off. I'm like, oh, she's just been recording videos.

100%, mate.

100%.

Do, they're watching. Whereas when I was a dad, I probably didn't realize it. Now as a grandfather, you know, I'm just so much more aware of what Reiner does and what he sees and what, and what we do. It's, it's so cool.

Yeah, and it's what you said, mate, those little things, you know. Like my, my daughter in, in dancing, she's— all of them are, even Roman, they're, they're very conscious of all these little things like nutrition. Like, yeah, Roman doesn't like the, the yolk of an egg, but like, what do you want, Rome? You want some protein? It's like, how does a 5-year-old know what protein is? Like, yeah, I want, I egg whites, you know, but not the yolk, but give me the egg whites. I'm like, mate, that's, you know, and, and the other day, actually, Stella, you know, and she doesn't see all the inner workings of HPF Coach, but she's, she just randomly said, Daddy, you're a great leader. I'm like, that's a really, like, to have a 9-year-old, that's not a common word, Roozy, that kids would use, you know. And, um, and she understands, and I've taught her what, what leadership is and whatnot. Uh, but you never know how much, but you're right, mate, they take it all in.

They, they absolutely get it all in. Like, right, like, same, same thing. Raina's so funny. He, oh, 'cause I get a bit nutty when I'm around him and have a bit of fun. He goes, settle down, Papa, settle down. Like, you know, 3 and a half, like Papa, settle down, Papa, settle down. Like, and he's just had a heart operation a couple of weeks ago and like the sternum takes a while to recover. So he, you know, the awareness is amazing of the doctors and nurses. And so I'll start to wrestle him. He'll go, Papa, be careful. Be careful, Papa. I've gotta, I've gotta rest. I've gotta rest. And he points to his chest sort of thing. So like, like crazy, crazy things that, like you said, that they pick up really quickly and we probably don't give them enough credit for how smart they are at such a young age.

Yes. And the audacity. So good, mate. It's why, uh, even Florence, she's only just turned 8 months now. I'm just always whispering in her ear, no boyfriends till 30. I'm just, I'm planting the seed now, mate. No boys until 30.

Yeah, that's good. Oh shit.

I mean, look, it's been, uh, it's been awesome to connect with you. I hope you've enjoyed it as well, mate. You know, just, um, possibly a different angle to maybe some of the talks and things you've done before, but so, so valued, so powerful, mate. Like I really appreciate, and I can't wait to come into the, into the community, mate, on Monday. So, so HPF members, boys, we've got, got a special session planned for you on the inside, which will be phenomenal. But, um, I guess, mate, just, just as we we sort of wrap up episode 1. I'm sure we'll do more and I can't wait, but especially in the flesh, what would, like, let's, let's fast forward a little bit, mate. Like you and me, we're on our deathbeds, right? Like what would be your parting advice or the final thoughts, I guess, on, you know, the life that's been lived to, to the younger generation men, men and fathers? Like what, what are those things that would stand out? Those couple of one or two core things that you'd like to, to, to leave or impart with the men today?

Yeah, I love this. There's a little fable, I think. I don't know what they call them, a fable or something like that. And this little kid's talking to his granddad and he says, granddad, I don't really know what I want to be when I grow up. And granddad looks down and goes, grandson, just be a good person. There's plenty of vacancies. And that really sort of hits me as I get to 63 and not the year Yeah, you start thinking about your demise in, in a, yeah, I always joke I'm going to be, yeah, get right mate to 100, but at 20 you're not thinking about dying. At 63 you're thinking about legacy and you're thinking about other things. And the more I think about it, the more powerful that is, is just be a good person. Like if you can do that and you can, yeah, you can turn up your toes and we're all going to turn up our toes at some point, that's your legacy. I talk about this a bit. Your resume is what you do. Your legacy is how you do it. All right. Your resume is what you do. Your legacy is how you do it. But then people, yeah, we'll, I'll give you an example. People will turn up at a funeral and we'll all get speeches. Even the biggest assholes get people talking saying, um, you know, well about them at a funeral, don't they? Yes. But let me tell you, it's the conversation at the wake. That's the conversation that matters. The conversation at the wake— he's an asshole. Yeah, I had to say this about him. Everyone knows he or she's an asshole. Or Jeez, what a good person. Aren't we going to miss Mary or John or— It's the conversation at the wake that matters. The funeral. Have you ever been to a funeral where someone's got up and said, jeez, I'm glad this guy's dead. He's a complete asshole.

No.

What are people saying at the wake? So think about that and don't overcomplicate it. And mate, what you are doing is so awesome, mate. Like, it's so awesome because life is hard. Life is complicated. We need to simplify it. We need, we can make good people with good people. We need good people helping people that are struggling. There's enough good people to help other good people. So what you are doing is amazing. Yeah. Find, yeah. What I realize now is I, I don't want to spend time with people that I don't want to spend time with. Yeah, you have to at some time. So you've given these people a chance at a younger age than me to be able to, you know, get together with a group of like-minded people. Don't underestimate that. I was lucky to go to Fitzroy to be able to do that. You're providing a service that is incredible. So anyone, I don't know who listens to this, mate, but anyone that's thinking of joining, you know, the tribe, join. Like, it's a bit like someone said to me, yeah, would you like to join the Fitzroy Footy Club? Yeah, it's a men's group. No, not really. Well, it's a group of blokes that play footy. I don't know. Sounds all right. Mate, knowing what I know now, if someone said to me, would you like to join the Fitzroy Footy Club tribe? I couldn't get in there quick enough. All right. So for anyone that wants to join and, you know, your tribe, get in, join it, please jump on board ASAP.

I appreciate the, the, the, um, vote of confidence too, Rosie. It's, it's, it's interesting, mate, when I look at my life and I've done some pretty wild things and been reckless at times, but one thing is I find men, men are just too, too cautious. And, and it's a little saying that I just, I had to write it down as, um, just, just came through in a meeting with, uh, with our leadership team. And it was people who move too slow to make mistakes, quote unquote, will never be successful. And that's it. You're never gonna have it all figured out. It's never gonna be perfect. Even in HPF Coach, guys will go up and down. We've got guys 8+ years. But the longer you spend, they just, they just fucking nail it. And then they get it. But then there's the next challenge they haven't had before. Like I've never had, you know, I've never had a fourth child before and then I've never had one go in and out of hospital like this, but I've had others have operate. Like there's always something, mate, you know. But I do appreciate it, mate. And it's something that hopefully comes through with my heart on my sleeve. It's just such an important thing, man. And it's not that the fathers don't matter, like they're the key. But for me, I just, I think of everything we spoke about today as well. Just think of the children through their eyes, what they're seeing and the purity and innocence they carry that we then taint through our bullshit and our poor decisions and the poor investment we make in ourselves instead of the better investments we make in ourselves. And like you said at the the funeral, it's not, it's not so much what he did, it's how did he carry himself. That's the conversation I want because I know my name will be forgotten when all the people who knew me are dead, right? Like 200 years max. And yeah, that doesn't even matter. It's the legacy. Like, yeah, what have I left in them? Um, don't worry about the name, you know, and that all comes off how we, how we carry ourselves. But, um, now it's been awesome. I really enjoyed this. Hope you guys got a lot out of it too. Um, and, and yeah, thanks again, Roozie, for spending—

yeah, good on you, mate. Well done. I'll talk to you soon.

Yeah, we'll chat soon. Thanks, guys. Hope you enjoyed it. We'll see on the next one.

Well, that wraps up another episode. And just as we wind this down, I want you to just reflect and think back through some of the golden nuggets, some of the revelations, some of the sore points, some of the things that might have hit home with you. And then just look at ways that you can apply a different set of actions to change your position, change your circumstances, change your feelings, feelings and change the facts. These episodes are done with your best interest at heart, and there's always something we can get from that. Maybe it's not the first time, maybe it's the second time. We've had members listen to episodes 4 or 5 times and then it finally clicks. But either way, I hope you got a lot of value out of this. And also, if this is something that you really want to solidify inside of your life, repetition is the key. You've listened to it, write down your revelations, think about them, read them, Speak them. Believe in the changes that you will carve out in the action plan of those revelations to create change in your life, and then share that. And when you teach, you learn the second time, right? So teaching and showing this to others you love and care about is the greatest way that you can remember and make sure you consistently learn and relearn what is— it's true and what is it is important to you in your heart. Take care. Have an amazing day, night, weekday, weekend, and I'll see you for another one soon. Cheers.