226. 6 Kids, Married, TV Show, Number 1 Podcaster - Parenting Expert Justin Coulson

If you love the podcast and you want other valuable tools, resources, and coaching that will ignite the fire in you to go to the next level, then, look, make sure you jump on the other various platforms. We have absolutely our YouTube channel, Alex Ranieri. And in there, you'll find the opportunity to have different coaching and resources and tools and tips, including our podcast episodes in video form, which a lot of people get value from, too. But make sure you have a look at everything that we have to offer. High Performance Father is something that is a phenomenal movement that I'm very proud of. It's something that I love in this message that continues continually grows, and it grows in more fashions and ways than just the podcast. But I appreciate you tuning into this podcast with a couple hundred thousand downloads now. It's just incredible. So thank you very much. Enjoy this episode, but make sure you do go and use the other tools and the other valuable resources that we have. Welcome to a podcast episode. We've got an unbelievable guest with us today, one of the top parenting experts in the country. So, gentlemen, make sure. I strongly urge that this is an episode you would absolutely want to share with your wife or in fact, anyone who you believe is going to get huge value out of this, because the chances are quite high. If you're a father listening to this or watching this, you obviously have other people within your network who may be fathers, expecting fathers, and also some of our older gents, the old bulls, as we like to call it. You've got young men in your sons and possibly your daughters, too, where there's value in understanding what to look for. Because it's almost certainly true that sometimes prevention is better than cure. But we've got Mr. Justin Coulson joining us for an amazing episode today. Mate, thank you for giving us the time.

Yeah, nice to be with you, Alex.

Something that I can't wait to sink my teeth into. For those of you who may not know, Justin is a father of six. So everything that we share, you have zero excuse unless you have seven or more kids. Is that fair, mate? Or, I don't know, you might have a better approach.

You know what? I signed up for a life of poverty and exhaustion when I had my six kids. And it's probably worth mentioning as well, all six of them are daughters. I have six.

Wow.

So, so much noise, so much chatter, so much talk, so many emotions, so many words.

Do you have. Do you have pets, mate? And if they. If you do, are they. Are they males? Dogs?

You know, we have two girl dogs as well, just. Just a house full of my entire team, all female. I'm the only one walking around with high levels of testosterone in my body. And I don't know, I mean, I'd love to say I get to be top dog, but everyone, Everybody knows that. I'm just saying it. It's not really true.

I don't know why. There was just that gut instinct. I was like, I bet you that the pets he has are possibly female as well. I'm not sure why, but that's unreal. Isn't it crazy? I'm not. Did you come from a upbringing? Brothers, sisters? Like, what was the family dynamic in your household?

My mum and dad didn't mean to have me. I was a mistake. And I say that with total respect and love for my parents, but the reality is, this is sometimes what happens. So they. They had me when I think dad was 20. Mum was 19, and I was. I was a surprise baby. They were estranged almost straight away. The relationship was not off to a good start. And somehow, through a series of miracles and conversations and things that, you know, life just sometimes opens up possibilities that you didn't know were there. And. And they held it together. By the time I was two or three, they were fully committed to the relationship. And When I was 4, they had twin sisters for me. When I was 9, they had my little brother. And then when I was 15, they surprised everybody by saying. Including themselves, by saying, we're having another set of twin girls. So there's me, then twin girls, then my brother, then twin girls. I'm the oldest of. With two sets of twin sisters, which is just insane.

Extremely unique.

I don't know how they did it.

And.

And through all of that, they've always been extremely entrepreneurial. So Mum was a high school teacher. Dad. Dad managed a kfc, Then he became an insurance guy. But they started to sell furniture. So we were living on the New South Wales central coast. And I'm growing up. I'm like 4, 5, 6, 7 years of age, and Mum and Dad are going down to Sydney. I still remember jumping in the car and having these trips with them. And we would go and visit furniture manufacturers. They'd buy a lounge suite or a buffet in Hutch or a dining suite, stick it in the house, and then they would advertise it in the paper. So they're buying it wholesale and then they're selling it somewhere between wholesale and retail. And they've done this for, I don't know, a couple of years. And then they're like, okay, we can do this. So they've gone and rented a space and created a furniture shop. And. And at the same time, my dad has gotten out of the insurance sales and he's gone and bought a milk run. So I used to go on the milk run with my dad and deliver milk bottles and milk cartons. And I had no idea how to do math. So I'd leave the wrong change and slowing down, he'd have to go back to the doorstep and take the 20 cents back or give them an extra dollar or whatever. I learned all about maths by delivering milk to people on their doorsteps, getting chased by dogs, jumping over fences, all that sort of stuff. And then over time, they realized that the milk run was a very, very hard way to make money. Plus, the supermarkets were starting to get into milk sales. Supermarkets back in the day, we're talking the early 80s, they didn't actually sell milk, and so you needed to have the milkman deliver the milk from the dairy. And then, yeah, they kind of saw that the furniture thing was the way to go, and they had a furniture truck to do the deliveries and it was sitting dormant on the street more often than it was out doing deliveries. And they're like, well, maybe we could do furniture removals when people move house. And over the decades that followed, they had a very successful furniture shop and business which ultimately closed down, I think primarily because of competition from people like Harvey Norman and. And they found that furniture removals was just the better way to go. So they've just recently retired. But I've grown up in an entrepreneurial home with a big family and parents who have been. I mean, they've. They've developed so many businesses over the years and had tremendous success with most of them. And. And it's been a really fascinating way to be tutored as to what you can do with your life.

Yeah, absolutely. Different ways of thinking all come down to the environment that we're exposed to, mate. And that sounds like quite a. Quite a unique environment in light of, like you mentioned, there wasn't even milk available in the shops. And that level of resourcefulness where in the modern world we think of starting a business with technology in our phone. But like, they're fundamentally, there are opportunities like buying furniture, then posting it and having it. That's. That's really incredible. And on the central coast, that's where I am at the moment. So you. Whereabouts on the central coast did you grow up?

So Mum and Dad left Sydney when I was about 2. They decided that they were going to Make a go of it together. And this is one of their great regrets. And I think there's, there's some really great lessons in this, several of them actually. So they were looking at a block of land at Terrigle beach. It was about $3,000 more than the block of land at Niagara Park. And over time you can probably guess which one has appreciated more the amount of money that they would have made. But they were trying to save that little bit of money. They didn't understand property and real estate. They weren't aware of the WHO location, location, location rule. There was a whole lot of doubt as to do we push ourselves into that additional debt and so on. And so they made the choice for Niagara Park. So I grew up for the first sort of dozen years of my life until the end of primary school in the Niagara park area. Went to the Niagara Park Public School and then we moved across to Erina just as Erin Affair was being built and lived on an acreage at the back of Erina and then shot across to Wombral as I sort of moved through my senior years of school. And we lived with just a great place over at Wambi until I left home. Mum and dad have since moved elsewhere on the coast, but that was my growing up.

Yeah, well, I love it, man. Been up here for nine years now up the coast and grew up out in Western Sydney, South Penrith way. And mate, we've been up here nine years and I don't think we'll look back, Justin. It is quite a nice place especially well I guess with the kids and raising them. We love it here, mate, that's for sure. Like one me's a beautiful part too. And Aaron of the shops where it's getting built. That's unreal. It's always busy now, mate, when we get in there and you, you wouldn't imagine it but that's, that's quite incredible also the upbringing, you know, that's. And the reason why I asked me that as well, it's quite interesting, you know, being one of four boys having an old Italian father and just, you know, I laughed the other day and actually I broke into a fit because I like to laugh every day. But I couldn't stop laughing at this memory, mate. When my brother, we're wrestling like playing footy and he literally crash tackled me completely through the wall, Gyprock wall, just like everywhere. It was right in the kitchen, right as you enter the kitchen. I remember him pulling me out and then I was just both looking at this monstrous hole in the Wall just, oh, make the fear as well because the old man being Italian, he's, he knew how to bring the hammer down, I guess. And oh, look, that there's, there's times where it was potentially too much. Other times was probably what we needed. But mate, crazy. So I went from that to having to do IVF and lots of hardships and trial and error to having two daughters. I've got two daughters and a son, but the two daughters I don't just made me think of that. Talking about having six daughters, like, mate, it was completely anything I was exposed to, you know, with mum and dad, three boys plus myself. So, you know, family, four boys going crazy, crazy every day in the household, tackling, fighting. It is a different energy, mate, between, like when you like having daughters. I just, it was, it was such an eye opener for me on just the energy, the requirements that they are younger than yours, mate, six and four. Stella's nearly seven. But it's incredible, isn't it, when you, when you, when you truly see as a man what it's like to deal with, with children who are, who are daughters and, and that number as well, having six of them. Yeah.

So I need to clarify as well. We were not trying for a boy and we do have a tv. Everyone always says, yeah, I've got a tv. It's like, yeah, we, we've got a tv, but there are other things that we like doing much more than watching tv, as you can probably tell. And, and yeah, we just kind of. Kylie, my wife, always wanted to have a big family. I was, I, I was fairly non plus. I was just like, well, I guess we'll have however many kids we have. But when we got to about number four, we had a bit of a break and I was the one that went to her and said, I really miss holding a baby. I, I missed that experience. And we decided together to go for number six. And as I reflect on what having a big family has meant for us, and I say this with, without judgment, it's going to sound like I'm throwing shade at people. I'm not. But just the different values, the different ways that we deal with these decisions. I remember having a conversation, in fact two conversations almost consecutively, like within a day or two of each other. I was with one guy and he was a Polynesian guy. So culturally we know Polynesian families do tend to be a little bit larger than the standard Caucasian Australian family. And he was just about to have his seventh child and I said, mate, you're a painter. How how do you, how do you afford this? Like, why are you still having more kids? Surely economics has to come into it. And I remember him looking at me and saying, I never want dollars to be the decider about how many kids I have. I want to have the family that my family needs to have. And we're incredibly fortunate in Australia to have the support networks that we need around us to, to sustain that. Now, that's going to obviously clash with some people's value systems. That's fine. I just, the, the central thing was I don't want money to be what determines this decision. The next day, I bumped into another guy a day or two after and. And he was going off because his wife wanted to have a third child. And he was just putting his foot down and saying, no, I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to let her do it. And just the, the difference in terms of. There was something in their eyes. You know, you've got one guy who's really compassionate. He loves his wife, he loves his family. He wants to have as many kids as they decide they're going to have. And the other guy, so authoritarian, just slamming his fist on the table and saying, she doesn't get to decide. It's my decision. I'm the one with the sperm. Like, it was a really, it was a really intense kind of contrast. And over the years, as I reflected on that, I thought, I don't want to be the guy that's saying to my wife, no. Who am I to tell her no? Like, we work this out together. And of course, we kind of did. And after number six, she looked at me and she said, you're getting a vasectomy. And I said, okay, like, we're, we're done. It's over. Our kids, our kids still ask if they can have another baby brother or sister. Like, they, they, they just. Oh, they love having the big family. It's beautiful.

Yeah. It's quite an interesting experience too, isn't it, getting the vasectomy mate?

Well, Kylie came and watched. She wanted to make sure that it happened. She sat in the room and watched it.

Yeah, it's like a woman who's thorough to make sure the facts are all lined up appropriately. But it's. Would you consider mate? Because that's quite an interesting contrasting of two different perspectives. Would you. But potentially with those sorts of things, it would highlight, I guess, the deficiencies in a man where, whether it's ego or not, internally he would feel challenged in not being enough. And the way that I'm saying this is look there's always opportunity. The whole money doesn't grow on trees was something coming from nothing that I was somewhat raised with. But I know that to be a lie provide a level of value and provide services always options always even as a painter, regardless of your culture, your background, your history. That guy who didn't want the third there's always a way should he choose to level himself up that he'll go and produce should financial or otherwise or you know patience and all these other things that lead to men thinking it's not the right decision to alleviate some of that that get in the way. Like would you think that that would like I know you you had the chat on me but is that your gut feel being in this space just for those of you know as well and I haven't gone the full thing but number one parenting podcast. Both Justin and his wife Kylie, author of nine books like this man has a two seasons down now of parental guidance. Like it's a Sorry Matt, I probably didn't introduce the because I already I can already see the value but for those who are listening and six kids like you guys are going to get some phenomenal value. But tell me mate, like your thoughts on your experience. Is that a limiting factor of someone's stories, their own insecurities and like to be that authoritarian or put the walls up or what are your thoughts on on that?

What you're describing is what my life was for a long time. So maybe I'm going to share three things. Number one, values. Quick story. A really good mate of mine, his name is Bruce Sullivan, talking about values and dollars. He sorry, adding value and bringing dollars in. He tells a story about how when he was young he realized that he could go and mow the neighbor's lawns and make a few bucks. And as a teenager he was stoked about that. He was making so much more money than all his friends. So much so that he began to recruit his friends and they worked for him to mow other lawns. And he just takes some cream off the top like savvy businessman. As a 14 year old he was figuring it out. But one of the people whose lawns he was mowing had a conversation with one day and said Bruce, you need to know something. All the money that you will ever need for the rest of your life already exists in the world. It's already here. And Bruce looked at this person strangely and was like I don't know what you mean. And the person said your job to Provide for yourself and for your family as you get older. Your job is to work out how to get access to the money that already exists. You don't actually have to go and, I don't know, create a mint and start publishing your own money. It's already there. He said, what you need to do is work out how you can add value to other people's lives. You work out how you can add value to other people's lives and they will take the money that's in their bank account and they'll put it into your bank account and you'll have everything you need. And that became kind of like a governing principle for him. My mum, as I was going through university and stressing about mortgage payments and things, every now and again I'd have a conversation with her about it. And this is the entrepreneurial woman who's built several multimillion dollar businesses over the last 30 or 40 years. She used to say, justin, you just need to create it. And I used to hate that. Here I am, I'm a uni student, I'm working three part time jobs, I'm studying full time, I've got a wife and a bunch of kids and a mortgage. And I'm thinking, how am I supposed to create it? What do you mean? And she wasn't saying it as eloquently as my friend Bruce, but what she was essentially saying is, find a way to add value to people's lives and they'll give you money for it. Just be creative, develop it. And for years I chafed at this, Alex. Like I pushed so hard against it, but then eventually I finished uni and I started speaking and I started writing and there's no, there's no, there's no pathway for a guy like me. And even with what you're doing, it's not like there's somebody out there who said, oh, this is the way you do it and follow these steps and there you go. It's literally making it up as you go along. And in some ways that's all of our lives. Even for people who are following a more traditional career pathway, we're still trying to figure it out as we go along. We're biting off more than we can chew where making best guesses, we're failing. We're hopefully standing back up and saying, all right, well now I've got to discover some new pathways. And that's kind of what happened. I had a very, very successful radio career before I quit the media industry completely. I went back to school and I studied for about a decade, full time. Became an academic for a couple of years, didn't light me up. And I knew that what I wanted to do was help families. And so I quit the academy, I left the university, started writing books, started writing articles, started giving talks. And over 10 years after almost losing the house, I don't know, four, five, six times, scraping through with mortgage payments at the last second, we sort of got it together. And in the last five years or so, the business has really boomed and been a wonderful, wonderful blessing, not just to us, but to the people that we get to talk to. I guess ultimately finding a way to add value is at the core of it, and that's why I do what I do. So if I get paid for it, great. Even if I don't. I mean, I don't get paid for this conversation with you, but we're going to change somebody's life today by having this conversation. And for me, that's my currency. And I'm just grateful to be able to do it.

It's it, mate. There's so many things that I'd love to explore in what you just said there, but it really is that in a greater level, things like think and grow rich, law of attraction, people don't realize it's not, hey, I. I want to have a Lamborghini, I'm going to think about it or appear. It's like, what is the energetic input I can create or, you know, in the world that will have an output or a byproduct or lag measure, which is always slightly delayed, that will give me everything I need because I'm already there. I'm already that. I'm already providing value. Like this is, I think, episode maybe 226. And there's some who've done more. There's some who've done. Actually, I saw a stat on another guy who has a podcast show, and he says if you make more than 20 podcast episodes, you're in the top 1% of podcasters in terms of, like that, mate. It's like that's. And. And you see. And you would say too, Justin. It's so consistent. You just see the formula is the simple, the fundamental things, putting in the work, the repetitions, of course, getting accurate and better and improving. It's not just hard work. There are people who work hard all the time. It's crazy that.

Oh, yeah, I want to, I want to just say something on that. It's really important to me. I hear people say, just showing up, showing up, what you got to do. If you just show up, that's most of the battle. And I really resist that. I really push against that and react against it. Because no, showing up is not what you got. You've actually got to do the work. Like I said, you've got to do the reps. My podcast, I think we've got 820, 830 episodes out now, but we just show up every day and we do the work and if the work's not good enough, we chuck it in the bin and we do it again. Because you've got to have standards, you've got to have expectations and you've got to push. And I want to be really clear though, this is. I know we're going to talk about parenting eventually, but right now, while we're talking about being your best you and we're talking about making a difference and adding value to people's lives, you've got to make sure that it's going to add value. Otherwise, don't do it or do the reps to get yourself to a point where you can add value if you're not there yet. I mean, I did, I did eight and a half years as a full time university student doing my TAFE because I couldn't get into uni, then doing my university, then getting my honors and then doing my PhD. And during that time, I'm not really adding a whole lot of value to people's lives, but I'm showing up and I'm doing the reps. I'm doing really hard, heavy lifting there so that when I step out of it, I can not just show up, but do the work. And it's doing the work 100%. It's doing the work whether you want to be a better father, whether you want to be a better person, a better spouse, a better employee or business owner. It's doing the work that gets you the results, not showing up.

100% agree. And I spoke about this last night in a coaching session with our group talking about standards. You know, what you tolerate becomes a standard and how you operate. So it's got a thing and it starts with us. There's got to be things you need to no longer tolerate of the excuses, a little voice inside, what is going on to pull you away and also create a higher level of standards in how you operate. Because I agree, mate, it's not just people say work harder, people say work smarter. I say you probably need both. But also not just resting on our, on our hands with common phrases like just show up. I agree with you, mate, it's like, yeah, that's cool. Like, just like the. We've all got 24 hours in a day. They're so desensitized, mate, that doesn't mean anything anymore. Like, it's numb. It's like. Well, instead of that, how about we look at, like, time management as an example? Well, you've actually got a thousand minutes a day. If you break down 16 hours into minutes, and that gives you lots. But minutes go quick. And how can we shift the perspective on things? Which is why for a lot of you men listening to this and your wives, hopefully as well, yes, we're going to talk about parenting. However, what Justin and I, I guess, have prefaced in this whole episode is around you actually shifting the way you view things, the way you think, how you turn up, and when you are 100%, then you have a better ability to be able to produce. And the skills, the techniques, the strategies, the talk that we're going to be discussing specifically around parenting, because would that be a fair statement to me? Like, if you're going to be the best, how do we be the best husband? How do we be the best father? All of these are hats that go on the individual's heads. So who's the individual? How's he turning up?

You know what, Alex? I'm even going to resist and push back gently against the idea of best even being the best that you can. I don't know about you, but no matter what, what I do, so I'm a pretty keen cyclist. I love to surf. I've just started running recently. I've spent time in the gym over the years. Although if you look at me right now, you'd probably say, have you really? But I have over the years, just not lately. No matter what you do, no matter how hard you try, you give it absolutely your best. Once it's done, you can't help but look back and go, oh, geez, I reckon I had another 1%. I reckon I had another 4%. I know that I could have pushed harder in this situation. And so I, I really, I understand the motive behind it. It's kind of like, oh, no, I'm all over the place here. Let me make two points on this. Rather than pursuing your best, what I think it helps to do instead is to act with intention and look at how we serve. So to me, if I show up in a way where I'm really intentional, I'm really focused, and my entire focus is on how I can make a difference, then I'm satisfied. With that, is it my best? I don't know. But I've done what I could do in the moment with my intention. Right. And my desire to make a difference. That's the first thing I'll say on that. The second thing is when you think about this whole doing your best, it brings to mind the idea of I want my kids to, or I want to reach my potential. And when I'm doing my workshops in organizations and in schools and wherever else I'm being hired to speak, I love to ask the question I'm going to ask you. In fact, let me ask you. You do you want your kids to achieve their potential? You want your kids to fulfill their potential?

It's loaded, isn't it? Because that's not possible.

But without.

Yeah, initially, absolutely. My initial response is absolutely, reach your potential. But how do we measure that? Yeah, right.

And my point is. And of course, the parents that I'm speaking to haven't had the big preface that I just gave you, but when I say, please put up your hand if you want your kids to fulfill the potential, 100% of hands go up every now and again. A couple of hands don't go up. And I'll say, can you please put up your hand? If you do, couldn't be bothered putting up your hand. And those people will laugh and they'll put their hand up.

I'm like, 100% of you want your.

Kids to feel your potential. And then I just pause and I say, can you please put up your hand if you have fulfilled your potential? And there's this nervous, uncomfortable laughter as everyone realize realizes that, hang on, if I haven't fulfilled my potential, how can I expect my 7 year old to fulfill their potential? Like, what am I doing here? I did have one guy recently in the Southern Highlands put up his hand and he said, you have fulfilled my potential. I've just retired dad, who's like 50 years old or something, 55 years old. And I said, so because you've retired, there's no more growth, there's no more learning, there's no more development, there's no future for you. Your potential is capped and it's all downhill from here at, what, 55 years old. And he kind of laughed and he was like, yeah, okay, I see your point. And my point is this idea. I'm going to be the best father I can be. How about being an intentional father who makes a difference? Because you're. If you're constantly pushing for best, you're going to constantly be aggravated with Yourself, you're going to be constantly saying, oh, geez, did I? Like, we start to flagellate. We start to whip ourselves and punish ourselves and beat ourselves up. It's great to say, was I as intentional when I walked in the door and saw my family today as I could have been? And did I step in with the desire to serve, or did I walk in on the phone, ignore the fact that the kid said, hey, dad, and tried to hug me and walked into the room and closed the door so I could finish that phone call? Didn't even make eye contact with my wife? Like, to me, that's. I'm doing the best that I can, right? I'm being the best dad. I'm being the best husband I can be, But I'm also trying to be the provider. So what can I do to be intentional? What can I do to serve? If I can do that, then I'm probably gonna. I'm probably gonna end up being a better father and a better husband. Anyway, a quick story, a quick personal insight into what I do my very best to do in my. In relation to just that particular scenario. So I've got this rule that I don't walk into the house if I'm on the phone. But also I don't pull into the driveway and sit in the car while I'm on the phone, because everyone knows that I've pulled in the driveway. They've seen the headlights, they know that I'm there, and they're all sort of like, what's he doing out there? Whatever's happening in the car is obviously more important than I am, more important than our family is. So my rule is I drive around the block if I'm on the phone until the phone call's finished. And if I'm up to lap five or lap six around the block, I then will say to the person I'm talking to, you know what? I've driven around the block five or six times having this conversation because I've got a rule that I don't walk into the house while I'm on the phone because I want to be intentional. I want to be present. I want to serve my family. When I step in the door, five to six laps around the block makes it look like I'm stalking, like I'm looking for someone to kidnap. We need to wrap this conversation up. Do you mind if we finish it tomorrow? And just doing that, people laugh. They're like, no, no, no, we're done. We talked this to death. We're finished. And then I can walk into the house. And there's a couple of other things that I really make sure that I do to be intentional as a husband and as a father. When my kids see my face, I want them to see delight on my face so I don't let myself walk in with the worries of the world on my shoulders. When my kids look at me and say, hey, dad, I'll say, it's so good to see you. I won't just say, hi, or, how was your day? It's an intentional, it's so good to see you, or, where's my hug? Or I think that the knuckle noogie is on its way. Like, there's going to be something that demonstrates playfulness and intention. We have a rule in our relationship, my wife and I, and we made this. We've been married for over 25 years now, and we made this rule in our first year of marriage that whenever we walked past each other, whenever we were near each other, we would reach out and touch. And that. That's. That's intention, right? That's service. It's a squeeze of the bum or a squeeze of the hand or the elbow or just a hand across the shoulders. Whatever it is, there's a touch. Often there's a kiss. And it's. And doing that, like if you. Alex, if you did that today, the relationship between you and your wife isn't going to change that much, let's be honest. And even if you did it every day for the next week, you're probably not going to move the needle. And even if you did it every day for the next month or the next quarter, I don't think there's going to be an enormous change in your relationship. But you do it every day for a year and something starts to happen, and you do it every day for 25 years. I can't even describe the way it impacts the quality of the relationship because of the intention and the desire to acknowledge and serve. And I know I'm using the word serve intentionally because I know it's a central part of what you do with high performance. Father. But our relationships are about service. They're about giving. Marriage isn't about you. It's about the other person. Parenting is not about you.

It's.

It's about the kids. So show up with that service orientation, with that intention, and I think you just get a completely different experience. And then if we bring it all the way back full circle to where we began, you don't have to worry about being the best you can. You're being everything you need to be.

Yeah, I love it and agree mate. I completely agree. And there's a great share as well. Like when we're looking at that fundamentally peel the layers back of the words, how we articulate things, even the physical actions, they're all just forms of energy. And that little touch, that subtlety, that's like you buying in. Like I, I speak with the men on the inside around marriage being like a baby. That's an organism you need to keep alive and have thrive and it just needs things alignment, it's feeding it the right things. You don't poison it. And investment feed it so it doesn't starve. And just those little subtleties like you said, mate. 100 and it's true too. Like on, on calling out on the, on on the being your best thing, mate. I agree. I will leverage that at times as a psychological push to help men snap out of, to drive a high level of action because like I'm nowhere near that. And it's not that I do this on purpose with our men, but I help widen the gap. So I understand, hey, we've got work to do. But essentially it's not so much being the best as opposed to just being better. And you cannot be better without those two things you spoke about on intent and then that follow through on providing. And maybe we spoke about this off air when you said 10 years. You're 10 years my senior. And it's like I'm this close like every time. It's like I'm this close. I'm this close. And that's. You could, you could set a line in the sand on. This is what would define me to be the best I've ever been. But that's just a mountain that then gives you a different view, Justin, to see mountains that are a little bit higher. And we talk about that so much in hpf where the destination is actually the journey and the type of journey you have because there is no finite. So I agree with you mate. And yeah, and yeah, thank you for sharing that as well and giving that example because we as. As much as I, you know, like what you've said with, with putting in the reps and, and the work and I feel blessed that through being able to communicate with guys it's been thousands of videos and service and all the things that you, you have done as well in your own right. And it's, it's an incredible rewarding thing because it actually levels you up beyond what you think your best would Even be so. It's quite interesting, isn't it, mate? When we look at life itself, and not only the adversities, but how the continuous improvement and service actually creates a greater version than the limited belief on who we are could even define as being the best.

There's a quote that I'm just Googling right now. It's a quote that somebody shared with me just years and years and years ago. It came from a guy who was a church leader. I think, if I've got this right, and he says, the more. So this is not talking about family. This is talking about making a contribution to the community or the wider society. But I think that applies to all relationships. He said this. The more we serve our fellow men, or we could say the more we serve our family, the more we serve others in appropriate ways, the more substance there is to our souls. We become more significant individuals as we serve others. We become more substantive as we serve others. Indeed, it is easier to find ourselves because there is so much more of us to find. I love that quote. And it kind of gets to the very core of what this whole service thing is. I think it's a mark of the very best individuals, people who are. It's not that you think less of yourself, you just think of yourself less, but you actually become more as a result of it. That like this incredible paradox.

Yeah, I agree. It's something that, you know, like looking at these podcasts and what we've done, connecting with you and so many people over the years, it's like, well, who am I? Who is Al? If you remove the items that I own, the roles that I have, or say that I am, father, husband, or not, and the beliefs that I have, if you remove those three, I'm nothing. But then at the same token, I'm absolutely all the possibilities that could ever exist. And then when you look at those two. I love David Goggins. I got to give him credit when he talks about when he's doing 240 mile, you know, and he's. And he asked that question, what if. What if I could pull this off? And I guess. And I could be wrong, but that's what I see when David says those sorts of things when he's in these crazy situations, we're like, in those moments, there is no David Goggins. There's. There's no shoes. They've served their purpose. His feet are already broken. And it's like all the items, the roles and the beliefs, it's just the what if? Which means he's nothing and everything at the same time. And he just. And then we make a choice. And I don't know, mate, like I find. And you would be the same with that, what you just mentioned, that quote that I would dare say that I am a version, a collective of the amount of people I've connected to, the interactions, the experiences. And when I'm engaging and serving a larger energy source than me, I'm one person, mate. HPF is much bigger than me. So when I'm serving a larger collective and energy source that removes the or brings insignificance in some of the daily, sometimes ego driven problems we all face as individuals. There's. There's so much more meaning and purpose and like you said, there's so much more to find. I definitely agree with that. I find that serving so many others outside of yourself helps you actually find who you can be because you're working with a larger energy source.

And we are who we are in relation to others. So I am the person that I am because of the relationships that I share with my wife and with my kids and with people like you who say, hey, come on my podcast and have a conversation about this thing. We are who we are because of the relationship that we have with others. I wouldn't be Dr. Justin Coulson if I didn't have the six kids and my wife. You wouldn't be the high performance father guy if you didn't have the relationship with all of these men who say, I want to, I want to get this stuff together because I'm making a mess of it. Help me out. We are who we are because of the relationships that we share. They, they develop, they form, they shape our identity.

It's incredible how life maneuvers you as well, mate. Like, you're spot on. HPF was born out of the trauma of my life falling apart when I became a father for the first time. And I look now like here are men who are suicidal no longer there. Men who've been kicked out of their homes, they're reconnected with their families again. Men who weren't seeing their children. Now they've got a beautiful relationship.

Like, wow.

And it's not. That's not. This is the Al show. It's got nothing to do with me anymore. But it's funny, just that ignition, that catalyst that created what is something that we're very proud of. It's incredible, isn't it? When you like, like you said, we are, I guess, defining ourselves in our purpose, built off the experiences, the environment and the connections that we. We make. Which leads me, mate, to, I guess, really. Well, the first thing was like, you nearly lost your home five or six times. I'm like, geez, man. Like, I love to know what the mentality was, the mindset, the resilience, how you came through that. I'd know that first. But then secondly, yeah, what got you into the work that you do, mate? You know, the positive psychology, the, the. Oh, mate. TV shows, podcasts. But essentially in your profession, you're helping countless parents. But I love that first, the mindset. Where were you at with that? And how did you break through to. To come out the other side? And then also, yeah, what led you to getting into where you are now, mate, in your profession?

So I've always had a. I shouldn't say always, but I've. I've worried about money a lot. Money is sort of an anxiety thing for me. You know, we've all got our different trigger, worry about this, other people worried about. For me, it's just the dollars. And once we started this business, we had no idea how to do it. I'd never run a business. I had parents that ran very, very different businesses. And I'm trying to work out how do I contact people and then convince them that I've got something to say when I have no profile, no platform, convince them I've got something to say and that they should pay for it. And so it was literally just making it up as we went along and I'd make a contact with someone or somebody would I. I remember I wrote an article for free that got into the paper about Naplan and why my kids don't do Naplan, even though I've got a PhD in psychology and I'm supposed to want my kids to prefer the potential. And so it was about why my kids don't do that. And then I ended up on the Today show and all the radio stations and bit by bit, this little Facebook page. In fact, one of my favorite things to do is to get those on this day memories that come through. Just recently I got a memory come up from like 11 years ago. And I was saying I now have 200 followers on Facebook. 200. I'm so excited that 200 people like what I've got to say so much that they're following me even though they don't know me. It's not my mum. Like, this is so exciting. I mean, now I've got nearly a quarter of a million, right? But 11 years ago, I was saying I've got 200 followers. This is incredible. But, yeah, bit by bit, bit by bit, we just got there. But that meant that some months we didn't. There was way too much month left at the end of the. We didn't know how we would get there. The way that we did it, though, was we burned our bridges. We just said, this is the path. This is the way we're going. The one thing that I relied on, although probably a couple of things, but the one thing that I'll mention just now that I relied on was just before I started, so I'm working academically at the university as a lecturer and researcher, and I rang my dad and I said, hey, dad, here's what I'm thinking of doing. Think about leaving uni. Think about starting the business. This is what I want to do. I feel like it's the right thing to do, do, but I'm really scared. I'm in my mid to late 30s. I've now got five kids. We hadn't had our six, but we got five kids. What if it doesn't work? And he said, well, mate, that's the risk you take when you start a business. And I said, I get that. I guess what I'm really asking dad is if I end up in strife, can I lean on you ever so briefly while I recalibrate and figure out what next? Whether I go back to uni and work as an academic or whether, I don't know, figure something else out?

Out.

And that was amazing. He just said, I'll be here for you.

It's. It's incredible, isn't it, mate? Where we. We realize that that is. You know who I really like, Jim Rohn. I must say, there's something about. He's got such a funny quirk on how he always finishes you. But I don't know if you've followed or seen much of his stuff, but Jim Rohn, I believe he was Tony Robbins mentor, but I remember seeing a video where he's live, like, it's all risky. He's like, the minute you were born, it got risky. He's like, you know, you think, you think it's risky trying. Wait till they hand you the bill for not trying. Risky investing in yourself. Wait till you get the tab for not investing in yourself. And he goes, like, getting married is risky. Having children, he goes through it all. And exactly what you said just, just then, Justin, it's like, mate, there are no guarantees. But it's so funny. It's like the burn the bridges, bridge the gap. Or, you know, as Tony said before, burn the boats to take the island. That's, that's like, like you mentioned with us. Regardless of whether it's a traditional career path or literally pioneering into a space, you're literally laying the pavers as you're walking the path. And that's, that's the number one thing that I see has just been the limiting factor for people who limit themselves from becoming better and growing and evolving. It. I don't know if it's a fear thing or if it's just, or if it's just a choice but you know, the, the whole I'm this close and what you and me spoke about off air, like when you crack that code, you can't just crack it once. Like continual pursuit of growth and expanding, becoming better every single day. Cause there is no best like you said and I agree. But once you crack the code consistently, you get it. It's like that is the formula. I know there's no guarantees. What I need to do is I need to do whatever it takes to create the guarantee and make to do that with the skin in the game, with that many kids in the house and everything is just incredible.

Well, let me answer that other question that you asked because I think that it's really important for any dad who's listening to, to know that I get it. So I was a radio announcer. I mentioned this a bit earlier. I was working for a number of radio stations around the country. Ended up at Brisbane's B105 where we played all today's best music while you worked. And thank you for the laughter. I appreciate that. You know, still got it. So I'm on air, I'm doing my thing and I'm really confident. I'm hanging out backstage with global celebrities when they come through Brisbane. I'm being wined and dined in Brisbane's best restaurants when the record companies have got a new song out that they want me to play. I'm the music director on the morning's announce. I'm filling in on breakfast when the Breakie crew are away. Like I've got this career and it's, it's going well. And then I would go home to my wife and at the time our 3 year old and our brand new baby and I had no idea what I was doing. Like, so competent all day and so clueless in the afternoons and evenings with the family. And I remember one time I just, I hate telling this story. I actually, I really hate telling the story. But I think it's important.

Important.

Kylie had to go out Saturday afternoon. I've just gotten home from work. I used to do a six day week back then and it's midday. I'd had like three hours of sleep the night before because Friday night I was out doing the radio DJ thing and I was just so tired. The baby just gone to sleep. Kylie said, put the three year old down, you can have a nap. I'll be home before anyone wakes up. And I was like, yeah, that's what I need because I'll be an awesome dad and an awesome husband so long as I can get some sleep. Have you noticed how lousy we are, how hopeless we are as parents and as, as partners when we've had no sleep? And so I tried to get her to go to sleep and she just wouldn't. You know when three year olds get to that age where they're like, I'm too big, I don't need to have sleep anymore. I know better than you. And you're like, no, no, I'm bigger than you, I'm smarter than you, I've got more life experience than you. Just listen to me, do as you're told. And we went through this escalation process where she refused and I got angrier and then she refused some more. Like, have you noticed that 3 year olds don't look at you and say, well, now that you're getting angry, I see your point and I should have listened the first time. Like they just don't say that they, they get angrier at you. Force creates resistance. Like this is a fundamental relationship principle that comes out of the world of physics. Force creates resistance. And I got angrier and angrier and then I started yelling at her and then I started threatening her and then I started hitting her and then I slammed her in a room and I threw her under a bed and I locked her in there and she got behind the door and she's banging on the door with her heels and I pushed her out of the way as I shoved the door open because she was going to wake up her sister who was asleep. And I threatened her again and chucked her on the bed again. And I mean, it was just, it was hideous. It was, it was so shamefully bad. It was just disgusting. There's no other word. I'm so angry. Not, not angry. I'm so sad. I'm so sad that as a young dad I thought that that was the way that it was supposed to be done. You're the child and you will listen to me. You're not going to Be like all the other kids who don't listen to their parents. I will make you listen. And I remember, I remember standing outside the bedroom door as she fell asleep crying on the carpet behind the door. And I had this thought, it's not my fault. She made me do it. If she'd have just done as she was told, this would never have happened. Now, in 2023, if you hear a guy say, she made me do it, that's that, that's usually a recipe for trouble, right? And we know, we, we have, in psychology terms, we, we use the term agency. We have agency, that is, we have the ability to choose for ourselves. No one can make you feel anything. No one can make you mad. No one can make you happy. No one can make you horny. No one can make you anything. You choose what you're going to be. But when we say, oh, she made me, what we're actually doing is we're saying, I don't have any power in and of myself and my 3 year old has so me that they can make me feel this or that. But in that moment, that's, that's how I was feeling. That's, that's how I was justifying what had just happened. And then, then I realized, I still remember the thought, she's a toddler. She's behaving like one. Justin, what are you and what are you behaving like? I just, I was like, oh, this is a mess. This is a disaster. And it wasn't the first time. This was the culmination of months and months of me being more and more out of my depth, more and more incompetent, more and more clueless as to what I'm supposed to do as a dad. So I stepped out in the backyard and I thought very seriously about what I'd just done and knew that it was just awful. And ironically, across the back fence and down a few houses in a neighboring street, I heard a dad start to have a big fight with his toddler. And it was almost like what I'd just been through was being replayed. And it was hideous hearing it. I wanted to call the police. I wanted to say, there's a toddler in danger here. But I couldn't call the police because I knew that I had to call the police on me. It was horrendous. And so when Kylie got home, she said to me, I thought you'd be asleep.

What's going on?

And I just, I told her the lot. No tears, not really any emotion. I just said, here's what happened. And I'm not. I'm just not getting this right. And Kylie, who is usually so soft and kind and compassionate and thoughtful and, gee, she's just wonderful. She just looked at me and she said, yeah, you know what? You are not the father I hoped you'd be be. Which was just a. It was a gut punch. Like, it really. It really hit me. And as I'm recovering from it, she followed it up with. And now that I think about it, you're not quite the husband I thought you might be either. And I just thought, well, this is. This is actually a turning point. This. This is one of those moments. This is. I need an epiphany, and I need it now. As it happened, I was reading a book. It was called Punished by Rewards by a Guy called Alfie Cohn. And I thought to myself, there's some stuff in that book that I'm learning about that's important, and I think that I need to know more. And that was literally the turning point. As a result of that conversation, I said, I'm quitting radio. I left the radio industry within three or four months. I went back to school. I studied at TAFE, then I went to uni for another four years. So that was five. Then I did three and a half years to do my PhD and I did it all so that I could learn how to dash. The difficulty is that when you do a psychology degree, they don't teach you very much parenting science. Most people that I ask who have done a psych degree did zero or one or maybe two hours across the four years of parenting science. You do a lot of developmental psychology, but parenting, it's almost not there. Which is why I did the PhD and then I started doing the research as an academic. And what. What I learned, Alex, it changed my family. It turned my family on its head because we needed. Well, actually, no. I put my family back on its feet is probably a better way to say it. And we kept on having kids because we realized that we could have a happy family. We could figure this stuff out. And now that's what I teach people. That's. That's why I do what I do. Because it's changed my family forever. And I know that'll change. I know that it has changed millions of families around the planet.

That's unreal. And quite a. Quite a personal, and I dare say, yeah, emotional share, at least upon reflection. Action, Justin. Because we. We have those moments where I. I look back and I was like, man, the anxiety. I've created in my firstborn and the seeds are still there. And she's nearly seven. And I'm like, wow. And it's. It's not that I. Sadness is the word. It's not that I have regret or shame. It's given me the ability to then level up and obviously provide greener pastures for my family and how I. How I lead, influence and nurture their environment. But it's. It's tough, mate, because for a lot of people, people would you say they're probably in no man's land where without potentially some sort of. Well, a lot would have the breakdowns without breakthroughs, but we have the breakthroughs from the. From some of the breakdowns we experience in life. But I guess there's probably a lot of. What would you say, your experiences from so many parents, a lot of them in that stage where they need those epiphanies too, or they're also a lot where they're sort of in no man's land and it's just like this. They're not providing what their children need. Like, what's the. I mean, mate, that was an incredible share. But I guess in your experience now and what you're doing, your expertise, what do you see? What are the patterns where you see where parents, mothers and or fathers are missing the mark and what are the challenges or problems that you're finding or seeing from what you've done, Mate?

Yeah. Okay, so there's a couple of things here. I'm making some notes so that I make sure that I get everything that I want to want to say into. Into this answer. I reckon one of the. You mentioned you need a breakdown to have a breakthrough, but that's only partly correct. If you have the breakdown and you don't have the resources around you, it's very, very hard to have the breakthrough. I was extremely, extremely fortunate that I was reading that. That book really made all the difference for me. It's actually a very good book. I recommend it highly. The guy is an incredible thinker in parenting. His name's Alfie Cohn. The book is Punished by Rewards. He wrote another wonderful book about a decade and a half later called Unconditional Parent Parenting. It's just great stuff. But had I not had that book, and there was another guy that I was reading online about parenting, I really connected with him and I was reading his blog because back in the day, that's what it was, late 90s, early 2000s, it was all about blogging and having those resources. It kind of just. It gave Me hope. But there are a lot of parents who, they have the breakdown. A lot of dads are like, I can't do it anymore. And they don't have the resources around them. They don't know where they're supposed to turn or they think that they just need to parent hard, harder. And, and I got to tell you, parenting harder doesn't work. It just alienates your kids from you. It ruptures your relationships. It makes things messier, not better. So, so breakdown, breakthrough. Yes. So long as the environment is sufficiently enriching and has the resources that you need. The, the other thing though, that's critically important is humility. And, and this is. You asked what patterns I see in parents. And, and I hate to say it now, there are some mums who suffer from this, but it's more dads. And that is the attitude that I had. And you're going to do as I say. I'm the dad. You need to listen. And there's a lack of humility. There's a lack of, I don't know, we give the impression to our kids in our parenting and we even give the impression to ourselves perhaps that it's my way, my way is right. There's no humility around this. I just know what needs to be done. And this is so harmful. Like if we don't have humility, we can't learn and grow, grow. We feel like we're the finished product and what a load of, what a lot of rubbish that is. So maybe, maybe I guess in, in wrapping up my answer to the question, what I can highlight is what, what we really need to be doing to make our families happy, like to really support a strong, healthy family. Because I mean, this, this take me 25 years to figure out. And I've been so in, engrossed, so engaged, so deep in the research on this, and it's still taken 25 years. I've got a brand new book called the Parenting Revolution, which goes into this in detail. It's the book that I always wanted to write about these things. So our kids, even you and I, every one of us, every human on the planet, has three basic psychological needs. They're known as relatedness, competence and autonomy. So they're the psychological terms that we use in the research sites, but in real terms, relatedness is about having a good quality relationship. It's about feeling like you belong, feeling like you matter, feeling like this is a reciprocal, interactive relationship. Competence is about feeling like you, you can master your environment and understanding the rules of the game. Like understanding the limits, the boundaries, the stuff that, the stuff that makes things work. Like there is a structure to a game of soccer. There is a structure to the way a business runs. There is a structure to what makes relationships or families work. And that structure, essentially the word I'm using is structure, but we often call it limits and boundaries. And the third thing is I mentioned autonomy. This is the ability to make your own choices. So if you think about typical parenting, let's say I'm dealing with this three year old who won't go to sleep, what do I do? Well, I get angry. So that stuffs the relationship need just gone. But I'm also in my anger. I'm usually telling my child that they're incompetent. You're not doing it right. You need to, to go to sleep. You're not listening. And so I'm crushing their competence and I'm taking any sense of control and autonomy off them because I'm telling them what they've got to do. All of our traditional parenting, no matter what scenario you think of, whether it's the kids are fighting, you've got a child that doesn't want to go out and play the sport that you sign them up for because it's hard and they've lost three games in a row, whether there's back chat with one of your kids, no matter what it is, if you dive in with a traditional parenting model, you rupture relationships, you crush competence and you just ignore the fact that they have a need for choice, control and autonomy in their lives. Because you get controlling, you tell them everything they've done wrong and you send them to the room for a timeout or worse. So when we do that, crushing all of those, just trampling all of those basic psychological needs, what we're actually doing is we're making our family life harder and more miserable. And the underlying philosophy of everything that I teach is, is let's build the relationship. You've got a child who's not getting it right. That means that you've got a child who's struggling. They might be showing their struggle in some really antisocial and very clumsy ways, but they're struggling. They don't have the ability in the moment to figure this out. And so you move towards them, you lean in, you get curious, not furious. You provide structure by saying, hey, I want to know what's going on for you. All right, now here's what we need to be doing. And then you provide autonomy by saying, so for our family to work well. Or for you to figure this out.

What.

What do you reckon we should do? How do we. How do we move forward? And this simple process, I call it the three E's of effective discipline, you explore, you explain, and you empower. This process changes the way your family feels. It changes the way all your interactions go, and it makes your family function in just profoundly different ways to the standard traditional model.

That's incredible, mate. I love that. Especially that last one as well. I truly see that as giving. Like all of us as humans, we want to do well. We naturally, especially.

Yes, we do. Our kids want to do well. I'm so glad you. And they will if they can.

And they want to have the best. Here's the crazy part. I remember seeing this with Jordan Peterson is like, your children want to have the absolute best relationship possible with you more than any other human on the planet. Like, they look up to, at least in the early days, obviously. And then what do we do? We create the message and we unravel everything. But the last one in power. That's huge because I see that. I see that with my workers and colleagues. I see that with our tribesmen. So our members. I sat with so many people where it's like, if you give them the opportunity to take ownership, then they're going to not only own the outcome, but own the possibilities, the creative nature, the ideas, the suggestions, and the ways to actually get there. Why would children be any different, mate? Like, give them opportunity. Cool. So this is instead of, this is a mess. You're not this, you're not that. And, you know, the whole don't think about the pink elephant. What are they thinking about? The pink elephant? And we, we had a guest NATH WALLACE, 25 year neuroscience veteran. He's like, your brain will use 25% immediately when you say the don't. So instead of don't stand on the chair, you should say, sit down on the chair, please. So as children, we're highlighting things that they can focus on and that in a way that is detrimental, both in the lack of exploration and explaining. There's no room to empower them. They're already crushed, like you said.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I even want to talk about that chair thing for a sec. You can say, I want you to sit on the chair. We don't stand on the chair. I want you to sit down. You can say that because the do is always better than the don't. But you know what's even better? And it doesn't work in every scenario. Like, sometimes you just got to say, hey, buddy, sit down. Sometimes you just got to tell your kids to not run on the lounge suite, but just sit on the lounge suite or run outside. Just give them a choice, sit down or run outside. But you know what works even better and it ties in again with these three needs, is when you got the kids standing on the chair or dancing on the table.

Table.

You can walk in and you can actually acknowledge, hey, that looks fun, or you seem really angry. Like, just say what you see emotionally. And what you've done there is you've tapped into their emotional level without catching their emotion. And you're showing them you can see where they are. Say what you see, and then you can just say, what are the rules about dancing on tables or standing on chairs? And then they've actually got to pause, get out of the, the situation for a second, go, oh, we're not supposed to do that. And you're like, yeah, why? And so you're not just making sure they know the rule, they're understanding the rationale behind the rule. And that's where the buy in actually happens. Because you're worried that I'm going to stand on the lemon meringue pie or you're worried that I'm going to fall off and break my face. And of course your kids are going to say, it won't happen, it won't happen. You can say, I know, wouldn't it be great if I just let you do whatever you want? It's one of my favorite lines as a parent. I love looking at my kids and saying, wouldn't it be great if. If don't you just wish that? And then you finish the sentence with the thing that they want. Because it's wonderfully validating, but it's also drawing a really clear boundary. I'm putting a structure around this. Wouldn't it be great if. Which means not going to happen, kiddo, but I get where you're coming from. So what are we going to do instead? And it's that empowerment. It's the, so what do you want to do instead? Where do we go from here? How do we fix this? What's the next step? Can't do it when emotions are high. High emotions, low intelligence. Think about your own life when you're getting really emotional. Head full esteem, frustration, anger, stress, exhaust, whatever it might be. Like you really, really up there. You can't think clearly, can't think straight in a high emotion state. And so when your emotions are on the brink, you need to stop and think These are little mnemonics, little rhymes, little couplets that I. That I love to use to help us to remember if I'm going to improve the situation in my family. First thing we've got to do is get everyone level and balanced, including me and this child. And as dads, we often step in and think, I got to fix. Fix this right now, because the kid's doing the thing right now, and they need to learn right now that this is not okay right now. But what works so much better is when you walk in and say, oh, man, you. You two. You are at each other again, and you've just got so much frustration towards each other, haven't you? And then they look at you and say, yeah, that's right, because she did this or he did this. And you can kind of. You go, I know, I know. Wouldn't it be great if you just didn't even have a sister?

What?

Don't you just wish sometimes that you were the only one here and no one could ever fight with you? And they're like, yes. And you say, I know, I get it. Come and give us a hug. See, even saying that, even just saying what you see and then giving them in fantasy what they can't have in reality, it calms their emotions right down. And then you say, all right, well, now that we're calm about it, even though we're still a little bit cranky, what do you reckon we should do so that this doesn't happen again? What do we do so that next time we don't end up breaking the window or calling each other names or putting a hole in the wall? We get to have that conversation in a totally different way than the way that your Italian father had it when you went through the war with your brother. Completely different.

Absolutely. It's a great approach, too, because I think the biggest thing I see, Justin, is a lot of people just want to be heard. And you look at the mechanics of the brain and the children, how they operate. There's so much volatility all the way through the hormonal years, essentially. I guess if I'm reflecting on my own life anyway, until you. You're, like, probably in your mid-20s to some degree, you know, maybe early 20s. But it's. It. It's a beautiful process that you discuss, and it's something that. Like myself and. And the other men in hbf, it's a continual pursuit of mastery. But I look at that, like Stella this morning, perfect example, playing with toys. And she's the eldest, too, so what, what do we have as parents? Expectation. You should know better. You've got a four and a two and a half year old. But instead we pull back. Hey, Stella, you know, like, I appreciate you playing with your toys. You know, Mummy's called you four times now to get ready to, to go to sweetheart. How do you think it is? Like, do you think it's a. Would you like it if, like, you wanted to talk to mummy and daddy lots and we didn't listen to you that much? And I, I don't have it all made, mate, but I look at different ways to just acknowledge and understand. Looks like you're having fun playing with those toys. And she's like, I am. You know, I just want to finish this part that I'm ready to go for school. She's already. She knows. And then I'm like, okay, cool, let's. Let's marry it up and have a look at meeting her halfway. But then also helping her understand the need to get to school on time and so on and so forth and. Oh, mate. Look, a lot of the times, Justin, just through leveling out my own emotional state because of the. I don't think authority is the word, but the way that my children look up to me in the household as, as well as my wife Corrine, that's enough to sometimes help them steady the storm a little bit. But then be like, cool, let's explore this a little bit. Let's validate to some degree, like saying, wouldn't it be great if that's what Nath Wallace. I mean, it could be different words, but he used the word. You can validate their emotions. That helps get them on the level with you without shooting the emotion at you statue and then breaking through. I love that, mate. The three E's, explaining things and then empowering them to make the right choice. And then what did Stella do? Yeah, she. She put the toys away and got dressed and. And we're off. Instead. I could have just come. And that's the, that's the hard part for us as men like you quickly touched on. We're so logically wired and driven to just go for the kill. I can get the outcome. I can get the results. I missed a fix that I got a problem. Like, we're fixing up a car. There's a mechanical solution here. Do this. This stuff done. And I could do that like, I'm a giant compared to my children. I could completely overpower them. But what am I creating in the process? That is planting a seed of resentment or even revolution against, hey, I no longer, like this is not like there's going to be a time mate where I don't have any control over their external environments because they're not under my roof anymore. Yet the waiting I'll have on being some sort of trusted guided advisor, mentor, emotional outlet. That'll all get shot to shit, won't it? If we don't have that stability for our kids.

Kids, yeah, even like smacking, for example, I remember a mum yelling at her three year old, two year old, get over here right now or I'll smack your bum. And the kid just turned around, put a bum out and went smack my bum like she didn't care. And I remember John Irvine, Dr. John Irvine used to say, you can only hit your kids so hard before it stops having any effect. And then there's only one way to go and that's higher. What he's saying is, I mean it's terrifying when you think about, about it. The, the objective is, is not to get immediate compliance all the time, although sometimes it is necessary. The objective is to develop a child who has an intrinsic desire, an intrinsic motivation to grow and learn and progress and have good relationships and make a contribution that's positive and, and, and be in the family in a healthy and wonderful way. I think that our traditional model of parenting is broken. We've got generation after generation after generation that has been hurt, in some cases even traumatized because of the old model. And that's why I, I know we're not really sort of pushing the book too hard. I certainly don't mean to sound like I am, but that's why I called the book the Parenting Revolution. Because we need one and fathers need it more than anything. We need to change the way we're engaging with our kids because being three times or two times their height and 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 times their weight just by virtue of your size, that that's being their dad. That's not enough of a reason for them to follow you to do what they say. If you really want them to follow you, give them something to follow.

Yeah, like it's, it's one thing to understand that the choice and free will that we have in this world, it's another thing to really hone in on, hey, this is the only choice you have with consequences. If you don't, it's like, okay, remove the consequences. As your children get older, are they really going to follow you? Like you said, like if you're coming in over the top, top that will, that's you're killing the goose for the golden eggs, you know, and, and then there are no more golden eggs in terms of a relationship with the little people who are part of you. They're your, your blood or, you know, they are essentially a version of you in smaller fashion due to what are they exposed to in the conditions. Which is why marriage is so important too. I don't know. This is. Geez, I wish. I can't believe the time. I wish we put four hours aside, mate. You and me could probably talk all day, but it's.

I reckon we could.

Oh, I tell you, that's. But it's so true. And I, and I'm like. And I have a big thing people always talk about. I need to be more present. I need to be more present with my kids, work, life, balance. I need to be present. Okay, cool. Balance is a different kind of thing where I'm like, well, I'm not going to spend six hours on myself with my wife and children working and sleeping. It's not a chronological balancing, it's a. For me. What can we have with the time we have? Because sometimes we don't have as much time as we want. But what about the impact? So a lot of fathers will tell me they want to be present. I'm like, yeah, but you need two things. You need to be present. Present with presence and that, that's with a C. Gentleman, not buying them toys. Present with presence. And it's that thing again, like, I don't know, man, if it's my line of work. And you would know this innately, if not consciously because of your line of work, Justin, in your life experience, man, it's, it's all energy. I'm like, just break, break it down. Like we've got this little brain. They're six years old or four years old, they didn't have their nap, they're screaming. Nanny came over and gave him lots of lollies which I, you know, I don't like because of the chemical imbalance. And all of a sudden then they're grumpy and they want more and they won't have, you know, you know, good, good health or, you know, meat and veggies and what. They don't want that because they've got the taste now for the thing that is a survival mechanism that didn't exist in nature but certainly, well, it did to some degree. Look at the Masai and other tribes. They. When they find a honey mate, when they found the honey, they went nuts. It is like a so I'm dealing with that. And I'm like, okay, Hannah minute. I'm a man who's nearly 38. I've got this. This mentality. I've already got a developed brain. I've got all these moving parts around. I can see the future. I'm a visionary. Children are living in two different worlds. Up until at least sort of six or seven from my understanding of it. What's going on in Lillian's brain? What can I. And I'm just looking at what is the energy that she needs. Remove the words, remove that. Like, they're all different forms of energy. So I'm like, if I'm standing over her, I don't even need to say a thing, mate. That type of presence is obviously not warranted, but it's a dangerous thing to the point where you talk about. You talk about, like, I guess, discipline, those sorts of things. I. I don't want to hit my kids. So I started with something called Mr. Pinchy. I'm like, give you a little pinch on the bottom if you know what it's. Now. It's almost like a running joke. Like, they sort of half giggled, like, oh, you know, it's like. Like you said with the knuckle thing. It's become a game. It's so funny. But it's.

It's.

It's that bouncing act of. I can't. You can't just keep going higher and harder with different types of discipline and then leading into physical. It's like, hang on a minute. Go upstream to the top of the mountain, not the muddy lake at the bottom. Go to the source. What am I fundamentally. And mate, I love that. The three E's. That's something I'm going to be applying immediately. Or at least it validates some of the things that I've innately done. But I need to now consistently hon. As men, we like that. But what are the things upstream I can do that alleviates me feeling like this is the only solution? And I absolutely want to promote this. I just got an audiobook, the Parenting Revolution. Mate, there's one thing I love to. Geez, I know we're short on time. We're definitely. We're definitely gonna have to do this again, mate. But looking at this, fellas, you need to absolutely look into the parenting revolution. This book looks phenomenal, even from the very first thing that I'm reading here. We know about tiger parents, helicopter parents, free range parents, but have you heard of Tesla parents, leaf blower parents, or iPhone 6? Just that so many Styles, but there's one that actually works just that alone, let alone the rest of this read made. This looks phenomenal. I can't wait to. I'm going to chuck this on right after this and start listening. I'll obviously get the physical version too. I like doing two things, mate. Listening and reading the book. I find I absorb it better. Not at the same time, obviously, but they tell me like, I guess, yeah, this fellas, the parenting revolution. You should absolutely look into it. We're obviously going to make sure our members all get it. But talk to me about those parenting styles, mate. And I guess it's because I know obviously your time's valuable too, mate. And we, we don't have as much as we'd like, but I'd love to get a bit of an overview of the book, possible parenting styles, and maybe some tips or bits and pieces to, to wrap up, mate, because I know that you're, you're short on time as well. But yeah, I'd love for you to explore that a little bit more. Maybe the styles and maybe some tips for, for those listening today.

Okay, so let's, let's have some fun. Just, just briefly. So parenting styles have been around for a long time and Instagram and the mummy bloggers have made parenting styles absolutely blow up. But there were some scientific things in the background before that. Things like authoritarian parents, authoritative parents, permissive parents. Researchers have studied that for a long time. But once we sort of got to about 2005, 2008, people started talking about helicopter parents. And then moving through into the 2010s, we had free range parents and tiger parents, and there's all these different parenting styles. I've got a TV show, right? We talked about it before and that's all about the different parenting styles that are out there and what happens with the kids when we end up in this situation versus that situation. Based on your parenting style. We've got gentle parents. They're all the rage at the moment. My favorite one is the Tesla parent.

What is that?

So for any, any high performance fathers, this is, this is a joke, okay? Don't, don't take it too personally. Tesla parent is the one who is unquestionably better looking than all the other parents and also better for the environment. But everyone hates them because they're so sanctimonious. And then you've got the leaf blower parent, right? The leaf blower parent is the one who's noisy and aggressive and obnoxious and comes in and blows everything around. But when they leave. They've just made a bigger mess than was there when they started. And so the parenting that I was describing to you earlier, which is really at the core of the book, it doesn't have a sexy name, right? Tesla parents, Leaf Blower Parents, Gentle parents, Tiger Parents, Everyone kind of goes oh yeah, like it's really catchy. The marketing department at the University of Rochester where this parenting style was ultimately sort of developed and researched, they didn't give it a great name. Not a sexy name, but it is as far as I'm concerned. The, the superior, the vastly. It's the optimal getting as close to reaching your potential as a parent parenting style that's out there and it's called need supported. So you remember before I've mentioned that there are three basic psychological needs that we all have. The need of relatedness, competence and autonomy. Need supported parenting is basically as a parent what you're doing is you're, you're developing an environment that supports your kids kids needs rather than an environment that frustrates or thwarts those needs. And what we see consistently in all of the research is that parents who maintain a warm, loving, nurturing relationship where the kids feel like they belong and they matter. Parents who help their kids to understand structure and limits and boundaries, but they do it in autonomy supportive ways where the kids have a voice and are developing those structures and boundaries together. Those are the families that thrive. They're the kids that are experience high levels of intrinsic motivation in their lives in anything they're choosing to do because they have a voice. They're kids who do better in terms of well being. They're much more likely to thrive, much less likely to experience depression and anxiety and stress. But, but the biggest thing for me is when you go through a process like this with your kids. So, so you know, Alex, what we do so much is we shut our kids down and we make them scared to use their voice or make them not trust their voice voice and they become insensitive to that inner voice that's inside them. But a need supportive parent says, okay, so I've got, I've got runs on the board. I've got experience here and I am going to be the adult in the conversation. Like we're going to work this out together. But your voice is the one that I want to hear the most. So we've got a problem where we're fighting with siblings. So we've got a problem where you don't want to go to school anymore. School refusal is a really big challenge at the moment, or we've got a problem where you don't want to get a job, or we've got a problem where I can't get you to go to sleep at nighttime, or our mornings are just a disaster. So I want to explore where is this coming from? What's the actual issue? I want to explain. Here's what I'm struggling with, and here's what I would like to see us move in the direction of. And now I want to empower you. How do you reckon? What do you want our family to look and feel. Feel like? And if you want it to look and feel the way I want it to and every kid does, how do we. How do we move in that direction when we're at this challenging crossroad and our kids are listening to their voice, they're learning how to express themselves. They're learning how to solve problems. They're learning how to find options. They're learning how to create solutions. We're actually teaching them that they can trust that voice inside. And when they come up with a stupid idea, we don't say, that's a stupid idea. We say, well, I guess that's why one option. I wonder if you can think of another one. And. And that needs support that we provide means that we get to be what we're supposed to be as parents. The nurturing guide rather than the command and control dictator.

Love that, man. I think there's a lot of value to potentially. I mean, tell me if I'm wrong, but those three E's. Is this something that a father listening to this could potentially actually do on himself to actually just triage the way that he is parenting to go, well, I'm gonna actually explore the reason why I lose my. Do I not do enough for myself? Do I not go for walks? I'll look after myself or my health or other? And I don't know, like, is that something you think that. Probably two things that come from me with. With. That was one phenomenal approach. Could we do that to actually check ourselves and what we're doing even before we use that? Because if it's a skill we can learn within, can we then provide that outside of ourselves? And then secondly is the pathway to. To that asking questions like, we talk about need support? I would then peel one layer back and go, cool, well, what are the needs that need to be met? Because all three of my children have different needs too. Justin, Is that like. Or is that the problem? We're actually assuming we know what's best for them without actually finding that out first. Actually, that's probably the explore phase, I'd say. Potentially.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And essentially so they. We've all got different needs, but in terms of the. These foundational needs, these are fundamental to every human. Okay, so relatedness, competence and autonomy, they're fundamental. You got a kid who doesn't want to do something, it's usually because they don't feel competent or it's usually because. Let's look at school for a sec. You got a kid who doesn't want to go to school, it's usually because they don't have any good relationships there. So the environment is not supporting, it's thwarting the relatedness need. Or they feel stupid while they're school at school. So I don't want to be there because the competence need isn't being supported, it's being thwarted. Or they feel like they're constantly being controlled and told what to do while they're there. While they're there. So you will typically find that whatever it is, they don't want to play sport on Saturday. They. Or they want to quit the netball team or they want to quit the footy team, it's usually because relationships stink. They don't feel like they can do it well or they don't like the fact that they're being controlled. They don't have any choice over it. These three fundamental needs, they're at the core of what drives motivation to or against a certain thing. Don't want to share a room with my sister. Yeah, that's right. Because I don't like her. The relationship needs not going well and she always picks on me and makes me feel silly because I'm the youngest one and I don't know how to do what she knows how to do and she's always telling me what to do. She's trying to control me. So those needs are not being supported, they will be at the foundation of everything. Now, there's other stuff going on as well in terms of those needs, but when it comes to the kids needs and you and me, those needs are foundational. Anything that you're not motivated to do, it's usually because you're no good at it or because your relationships in that area are lousy or you feel like it's a controlling environment, it's going to be. It's not a one size fits all, but it's pretty damn close. And you'll find that this model will fit most areas of conflict and challenge and low motivation and low wellbeing. That you experience in your life. Now there's one thing that you said at the start of that question, question that I definitely want to address and you said, could you do this on yourself? I wouldn't use the three E's on myself. I can certainly explore. That's just so important. Doing the inner work and exploring, massively, massively important. But you're not going to sit there and explain things to yourself. That's kind of weird. The explain, it's definitely a dyadic thing. The empower though, this is critically important. And so this is what development's all about. If I'm motivated to get better at something, I've got to explore it and I've got to make conscious choices to improve myself. And again, you're going to do that best in a need supportive environment. This is, this is what your tribesmen do. This is, this is the whole essence of what high performance fathers is about. Right? You create a community where relationship needs are supported. Then you provide content that helps people to see where they can move to what they're aspiring to be. And that is wonderful for demonstrating, okay, I might not be fully competent yet, but I can see a pathway to competent. And then you, I'm sure in the conversations that you're having with the men that are part of this group, you're saying, so what do you want to do? How are you going to fix this? What's your next step? You're not controlling them. You're giving them their agency, their freedom to choose, their capacity to make the next decision so that they can build their competence in a nurturing, need supportive environment that feels like it's where they want to be. That's how motivation grows, that's how wellbeing grows. So we need to do it for ourselves, Ourselves. We need to support our kids with it. And I gotta say one more thing on this because we haven't talked about it, but it's really at the core of what's going to make our family flourish. There are so many people who say, can't get on the same page as my partner. And this explore, explain. Empower works so well in a relationship. But I change it just a little bit when you're talking about your couple relationship every week. So I'm going to open up the suitcase here. I'm going to let you in for just a second and you can see what happens in the happy family's house. So every Sunday, Kylie and I sit down and we have a relationship. I don't know, audit inventory. We have A relationship discussion. And it goes like this, hey, what's gone well this week? What hasn't? What are we going to work on effectively? It's an explore, explain, empower. I'm exploring when I say what's gone well this week? I'm explaining when I say what hasn't gone so well. And then together we're collaborating or empowering one another to work out what do we work on this week? So the process is powerful. It's profoundly useful for getting alignment in your adult to adult relationships. I mean, it even works with the kids. We do the same meeting with our family as well. 10 minutes, 15 minutes tops. What's gone well? Make a list. What hasn't. Let's look at a couple of things and be recognizing, recognizing that there's going to be humility and we're not going to get defensive. And then what do we want to work on this week? Let's just pick one thing. Because we pick too many things. We're going to lose the plot and we're going to feel like it's all too much. You just can't do it all. Let's pick one thing. And we're not just going to say, oh, right, we're going to pick on device usage in the bedroom. You can't just say, that's, that's, that's the thing we're going to work on this week. The conversation then is, all right, what's the plan? What will help us to do better? Where can we put our devices? When will we put our devices there? What are we going to do about silent mode? Do not disturb mode? What do we do about alarm clocks? Like, we need to wake up on time. And so you're putting the plan together and you create this alignment. And then at the end day of the week, you pull out the same piece of paper that you wrote it all down on and you say, okay, so last week we decided that this is what we're going to work on and this was our plan. How did it go?

How did it feel?

Has it gone well this week? And you start to really build it out, improving mornings, making nighttimes happen better, getting intimacy into our relationship if it's lacking because we're so exhausted. The list goes on and on and on and you continue to grow from one level to the next as you go through this explore, explain, empower process with a what went well, what didn't and what are we going to work work on Frame.

Yeah, that's the beautiful part about everything you've been sharing and Guiding us on there, Justin, is the application of just that game plan itself has probably been a must for you to have six daughters, have six children, as well as your wife, as well as yourself. And your needs are met, Their needs are met. And for that to actually thrive and flourish, it's not, hey, you know, I'm a 28 year old who went to university and I've got like 16 hours a day to myself or not. But here's the answer that I've academically discovered. It's like, man, the application you just shared then is something that, like we've got our whiteboard and we do with our family in a different approach. But I'm definitely going to show this to Corinne and work on this because I'm always, I always want to be better. You know that like we said, the best thing is this. I always want to be better. I'm like, hey, Kim, why don't we look at exploring? Why don't we look at this? And using these three E's here and without actually thinking whilst we do special time and other things to fill our children's buckets of attention and power, getting them in on a family meeting, even if it doesn't even make sense to Roman, it's the pure exposure in him being around that type of energy that I believe would, would help pave the way for, for him as well. I love him and I do believe you're correct. Like I look at HPF as a whole. Yeah, that middle one, explain, hard to do on your own, but having those three E's together, that, that's what we do with, with hpf and we're providing that, that feedback and that platform for exploring, explaining. So we do weekly temples, so it's weekly reviews and weekly targets for a week ahead and 100. I didn't even realize that that is, that's absolutely. Those, those are for all humans. Like I said, those psychological needs is something that, that not we stumbled into. It's just become a natural evolution. We're like, well, this is working the most effectively. How do we continually improve on that? It's a pretty unreal like when we look at, I guess fundamentally as human beings, Justin, what I'm seeing here is a pattern of there are areas to lead and areas to be led. Like the whole empowerment thing. When I look at our children, I'm like, well, actually I'm allowing them to take lead inside of hpf. I'm allowing the men to take lead on what it is. But we're creating not lanes, but guidelines. On, hey, you know, history would show that if your wife's love language is words of affirmation, then there's potentially a series of options that may connect with her on a deeper level. Instead of going, I'm doing this and it's hitting my head against a brick wall, we actually find it's an easier path to open up a dialogue on what the potential options could be. Giving someone ownership over that and then that. That mastery. But again, mate, like I've said to you, we could probably spend. We should have. We should have blocked out eight hours for this and, and live streamed it across all of Australia. But it's. It's been. It's been phenomenal, man. Thank you so much for. For giving us the time. And, you know, obviously, it goes without saying. Well, I guess there's several platforms. Guys could look into you a bit. You know, type in Justin Coulson on Google and you'll find your way pretty quickly. Absolutely. Parenting revolution. Get that. But, mate, I'd love final thoughts. Like, final thoughts or, you know, father listening to this. Potentially him and his wife together or separately in different times times. Like final thoughts or advice or tip, I guess as we wrap this up, mate, for those listening.

Yeah, I mean, I think that what I would probably wrap it up with, Alex, is that you're never going to get it perfect. And you're not supposed to. When you look at any business, when you look at any team, when you look at any family, you have moments where everything is spot on, but it just doesn't last. And it's not supposed to, because there's no growth if everything, everything is perfect. We're supposed to become better. And we become better as we rub up against challenges and bump into difficulties. And sometimes that's our kids, sometimes that's our partner, sometimes that's ourselves. What I really, really would want to emphasize is that if you want to make your family happier, the most important thing that you can do without any hesitation is to remember this cheap, cheesy 1980s quote. I don't even know where it came from. That has literally become my favorite quote of all time, my favorite parenting quote. And, and like I said, it's. It's cheesy. So I'm warning you. But it is just so profoundly, stupidly, sublimely, brilliantly true. And it is that to a child, love is spelled T, I, M, E. So when you look at you look at the mess that you're making every now, and we all are right. We're doing our best, but we're Making a mess. If you feel like you just can't quite get it together, just go for a walk with your kiddo or jump on the skateboard and go and roll around in the driveway or take them for a bike ride down to the beach or the park, or just chuck them in the car and say, hey, let's go get a hot chocolate down at the cafe and we'll make sure we stick in two marshmallows just for fun. Just spend time in the relationship. Put the stupid damn phone away and spend time connecting. Because when you do that, especially if you do it in nature, nature is fuel for the soul, right? But if you get outside and just chuck a Frisbee or kick a ball or, I don't know, throw a thing, whatever it is that you want to throw, and do that together, it changes everything. It's grounding, it's centering. It reminds you that you're human. It reminds you that they're human. It's just so profound. And if you haven't got time for that because the hours are just that long, sit on the bed and read them a story at night. And if they're already asleep, hop into bed with them and give them a cuddle for 15 minutes and just spend the time. To a child lover, spelled T I M E. And if you want to have a happy family, it's at the very core of it. It's the. The number one piece of advice that I would give to anyone who's just going, oh, geez, it's so hard. I don't know what to do. Find a way to connect, to make sure that those kids feel seen and heard and valued. That. That. That is my number one piece of advice.

Phenomenal, mate. And there's a. There's a reason why some of those quotes are timeless. Because it's the fundamental things that ring true and have the greatest impact. And, man, I completely agree, you know, and for those listening, time is not. I'm in the same room as them. Give them your time, which is your energy, your presence. And like you said, reading books, going for a walk, something that creates and builds this connection because it's something that is. It's so finite, isn't it, mate? The opportunities and the shots that we get on the developing brain, the chaos of the world, the multiple environments that can influence them. And even for those listening who have older kids, of course, the relationship can continue to grow and thrive. However, now is the time to give what is necessary for you to make sure you're aligned with what A fruitful life can really be. And that's why you're in the space you're in. I'm in the space I'm in, mate, because it's one of the hardest but greatest things I truly believe will ever experience as men. Absolute legend, mate. Appreciate your. Your time and I hope you guys got a lot of value out of this. I certainly did. I can't wait to listen to this and watch it again, as well as dive right into Justin's late latest book, as well as the others. Actually, 21 days to happier Family. That's. That's quite a captivating title. So I'm looking forward the one with Teenage Daughters. You know, misconnection while your teenage daughter hates you, expects the world and needs to talk like this is. That's going to be very valuable for me growing up in a house of boys with now two daughters of my own. So thank you so much, mate. Really appreciate your time. And what an episode, mate. It's a lot of food for thought and some great practical advice as well. And what we can apply immediately, it's been awesome.

Thanks, Alex. I. I hope we get to do it again.

Absolutely. Thank you, mate. Well, that wraps up another episode and just as we wind this down, I want you to just reflect and think back through some of the golden nuggets, some of the revelations, some of the sore points, some of the things that might have hit home with you, and then just look at ways that you can apply a different set of actions to change your position, change your circumstances, change your feelings, and change the facts. These episodes are done with your best interest at heart. And there's always something we can get from that. Maybe it's not the first time, maybe it's the second time. We've had members listen to episodes four or five times and then it finally clicks. But either way, I hope you got a lot of value out of. Of this. And also if this is something that you really want to solidify inside of your life, repetition is the key. You've listened to it. Write down your revelations, think about them, read them, speak them, believe in the changes that you will carve out in the action plan of those revelations to create change in your life and then share that. And when you teach, you learn the second time, right? So teaching and showing this to others you love and care about is the greatest way that you can remember and make. Make sure you consistently learn and relearn what is it's true, and what is that is important to you in your heart. Take care, have an amazing day night weekday weekend. And I'll see you for another one soon. Cheers.