286. The War You Don't Talk About

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Sex bot at 8,000.

Yeah, I know. I don't know how that changed. I was. I was in for a minute, but I'm not upset with, with the name

you're just calling, calling the Mrs. While you're away.

You know, I'll let the computer take its talk.

So that's, that's the intro for this episode. We've got, we've got. If we're going by labels on, on, on zoom. We've got Mr. Scotty Stefan, we've got Mal Muddle, Jeff Brown, and we've got Sexpot 8000, which is Sean.

Sean,

mate, I must admit you first came in as Stephen and now that name, that name. Not nothing against you. Well, similar to your last name, Scotty Stefan, but I like that. It's a good, It's a good name. Sean O. Yeah.

Well, let's say, like it's putting tickets on myself. I think that's it, mate.

See that, men? That's the confidence of hbf. When you join the program, you get a whole new nickname and identity and how good is it? Unreal. Thank you for. Thank you for joining, boys. I'm really excited for this session. Not only because all of you guys ascended the top of the mountain and we went to the highest point of the country, which was pretty, pretty powerful and symbolic in itself, but all of your own unique stories and wisdom that you bring, the stages that you joined, the brotherhood, the movement and the successes despite the struggles individually that you've had, which has been real for all of you in your own ways, which is. Oh, fuck. Firstly, sensational work, boys, on maintaining Your commitment and following through, because that's no easy feat, what all of you have individually been through. But on that note, what I'd love to do, fellas, is possibly because there's four of you. Less talking from me this episode and more extracting golden nuggets is always out of view. I've got my pen and paper. I'll always grab something from this and it'll turn into the next hour's insights. But we'd love to kick off with just understanding the history. So where were you? You know, we've got you guys from all over the country and again, all different stages of life, all different circumstances, scenarios. But ironically enough, the patterns which lead to our downfall and all the pathway which can lead to the rise is somewhat similar. You know, it always comes down to the whole be a hundred to give a hundred, investing yourself, so on and so forth that we focus so heavily on. Like my last session on. You understand that you're the asset. Like you are the asset for life. Not, not the attainment of money. That's a byproduct, not a certification or an identity or a hat that you wear outside of yourself. It's how, just how great can I become? Just how good can I get? I love that. But I'll start with you, Scotty, Stefan. And it's the. Where we use like the befores, you know, where were you before HPF men? And gives a bit of a rundown on some of the struggles and the challenge that you found yourself facing in life itself, in family, softened service. Yeah, thanks Al.

Great to be here. And also obviously reach out thanks to all the men that are watching on that are joining, standing up for yourself and obviously entertaining the sense of growth that all of the men within HPF are seeing each and every day. Obviously each of our stories different. In October 2024, that was my joining point. That was the point in my life. Well, just after the point in my life which was probably the lowest that I and many other men go through. So I entered following, yeah, 16 year relationship, 11 year marriage broken down. So entering into a. The first stages of a separation. Yeah, pretty. Pretty rough month before that. I think each of us go about that journey in a different way, a different manner. And for me, I was lucky enough to get involved in a few programs and HPF became a core part of my evolution beyond that really difficult stage of my life. So yeah, if I look back, I. It's hard really to see the man that I was. Often we talk about the man versus the boy in the man's body. And for me now where I stand, I would say that there were parts of me that definitely did hold that boy in the man's body. There was the inability to really see myself and the importance of self in. In guiding my. My vision, my outcome, my goals. I was very reactive, and that obviously all culminated into that person that. That really wasn't designed, wasn't meant to be in a. In a serious relationship at that point. So, yeah, it's a. It's a. It's a symbolic and important part of my life to look back on and something that I am very thankful now that I went through had I not been given that opportunity or not be in the place that I am now and, you know, surrounded by this incredible brotherhood, the men in here within, this podcast itself, the greater tribe within Knights, and obviously all the men within hpf, which have had a heavy influence on. On my trajectory from that point. So, yeah, I think there's many words to describe that person that was there pre October 24, and a lot of it comes back to those negative terms that we label ourselves with, which don't necessarily hold any value as we move forward, but things like mediocrity. Even though I was hearing the word quite a lot in my circles, I didn't really look at how mediocrity spread from self, family, and service across those three core areas that we talk about within hpf. I looked at roadblocks as these things that would really encompass the majority of my energy and my time. And, yeah, I got to the point within a relationship where I was holding onto too much resentment. And, yeah, I'll talk. Talk further, obviously, when we get into a chat about Cosi, but that's essentially where I was compared to.

Yeah.

Where I am now. So in a.

In a nutshell, yeah, brilliant share, man, and intro. You know, it's. It's funny too, Scotty. Like, we all. Here's the thing, man. Like, the intent is always genuine or somewhat pure. Right? Like, and it's not like that the boy in a man's body or other things, or we talk about being too much Viking or, you know, I'm here to just protect or. Or the more I control, the better it is for my family and making those assumptions or too much Panda, you know, which is. Call it the nice guy and all that sort of stuff. But it's like the intent is always genuine. That's the hardest part. It's not like we go out actively, regardless of what archetype or index that you are, you Know the misaligned chief, the shapeshifter, the Viking, the panda. The intent's always pure. No one goes out going, oh yeah, look how, how well can I, can I, can I fuck this up? So that's what makes it really hard, man. And credit to you for, for falling on your sword, taking ownership despite not everything being yours to own and doing something about it, which is, which is really powerful, man. Which is why I always talk about the most valuable asset is you and who you can become. I love it, mate. Shawno. Shit man. I remember our call like it's just always talking about this at cozy. Remember our call like it was yesterday, mate. So crazy how fast time goes man. And obviously being a multi season member as well, I'd love to get your insights. Like what, where did you find that you were drifting in, in life pre hpf? And what would you say would be like the biggest shift now in how you lead men, how you carry yourself? Because by no means does anyone absolve themselves of stress and pressure. You've had plenty lately too men, or the last few months as well. So it's always there for us men. There's always, there's always a struggle or a challenge. But yeah mate, we'd loved your insights. Like where, where did you find you were drifting pre HBF and, and how do you lead differently? Like what do you find is the biggest shift so far to date?

So yeah, my biggest, my biggest drift was typical, you know, was alcohol, drugs, porn, all like work, you know, everything that you know that pulls you away from serving a purpose in life, you know, and like being reactive, you know. And all I, all I knew and ever, ever known was work. If you have stress, have a beer, ruin it, you know like and you just bury the hatchet. Bury the hatchet where now joining hpf, there's other ways to deal with those, those stresses and those things. Yes they are old habits and stuff that do sometimes pull you back in but more you know, with the meditation and the, and the tools and that, that we've had inside HBF have and, and the men as well, you know, show you the way of just how to deal with those stresses, you know, and how to overcome them. Like especially recently I've had a lot of, a lot of ups and downs but again I've knocked the alcohol off that's gone, you know, and I'm just. Day to day is just a new day and just there's a stress. I try and cope with it with a. Going for a run, just taking 10 minutes to myself just for a bit of breathe room, you know, just standing back and realizing that in the last two years that have been 15 of my years like prior that never worked. Now I just know to come back to the basics. If you're stressed, take 10 minutes, 10 minutes to yourself to have a bit of breathe room, bit of breath workout or something like can really carry you for the rest of the day. Come home, you reset, you're good to the kids, you're not as reactive, you know, to the partner even if she's stressed. You've got that, you know, your cup still got a little bit more stress because you've taken that time to give yourself that day, you know. And like I said before hpf there was no regulating at all, not a single bit, nor did I know how to regulate. So you know, over it all is yeah just taking that time, realizing that life is stressful and you can't stop that no matter what, how hard you want to try it but it's how you get thrown and how you deal with it. Everything, every day is a new day. So just take it as a new day and just use the tools as you know, all our breath, work out, go and talk to a member and all that stuff. It's been fantastic lately, especially talking to Jeffrey Brown, Scotty, you know and Carl Fritz as well. Like they've all just the last few days, the last few weeks as well. Just brotherhood we've got here is just a real big thing too to help out.

Yes, couldn't agree more. Men keeping you tight helps you stay focused and like you said, it's not so much what happens, it's how you respond and how you choose to see it. And it's yeah some great insights and wisdom too man. The. This is what I love. I've already got half page of notes here. The stuff you talk about 10 ministry on it's like every. It's so important but men don't give that. So what do they do? They just keep carrying moments forward. Like every moment is simply that moment and nothing more. Now that might seem like what is a moment or scientifically apparently it's three seconds and all that sort of stuff. I get all that but every moment is simply that moment and nothing more. So how often are you men out there listening to this carrying too many moments forward that aren't serving you? Because I think it was Dr. Jonathan Negus is talking to me about how momentum doesn't or shouldn't exist because it's a double edged sword which he Convinced me quite well on that because, like, okay, you can rack up all these wins. Builds momentum. What if you don't have momentum? Well, then that becomes the vice, which is, oh, I don't have momentum. So I'm going to pull away, I'm going to lose here, where they're all just single moments that just accumulate over time. Like someone who scores a century in cricket. There's a lot of ones, some twos, heaps of dot balls, plenty of fours, maybe a six here and there. So it's a really good reminder that you had Sean O. Despite the stress, pressure, what we have in one, the tribe and people around you to support you, and two, just taking a quick refresher, you know, and not carrying too many moments forward into the next moment. That taints the next moment and the next moment and cost you dearly. Yeah, love it, man. Powerful stuff. Mel, how about you, mate? Like life, Life pre hpf. What was the drift? What's. What's been some of the biggest turning points for you so far, mate. Would love to hear your insights and your journey so far.

Yeah, thanks, Al. Yeah, I'm a bit looking, looking at these, this mob here. I'm a bit older than these guys. You know, I'm not quite as old as Hutto yet, but, you know, I'm getting up there and different part of life. You know, been married 32 years. Had ups and downs in that marriage, but going okay. My adult children had left, left home. So that empty nester thing, you know, sitting on the lounge looking at each other. So it was about, you know, not keeping that connection and not being on the same page. You know, you talk about the five Cs, you know, that we, that we all look at in here, they just weren't happening. That was the problem. I was busy at work. Leadership's always been important to me, so I was putting a lot of effort into that and learning about that side of things and kind of forgetting what's really important to us, as we say, family, self and service. I was going pretty good on the service. Wasn't really thinking about myself and probably wasn't thinking that much about service either. So that was the. That was sort of the stresses. And then the wife and I had, you know, many conversations and we, you know, she sort of said, well, it's kind of not working anymore. So it was reasonably, reasonably amicable. But still, you know, I was devastated and I had to work out what I wanted to do. And I came across hpf, went into that. You know, we talk about the, the first, you know, the first couple of weeks in that. Or actually, I'll digress a little bit. You know, talking to, to Mike Hudson and, and you know, I was a bit skeptical and thinking, oh, you know, is this, is this really good? Been around a while, I should be able to fix this myself. You know, I should be able to, you know, just try harder and it'll work. And having conversation with him, he goes, just, just. How about you give it a crack? You know, we, we understand we've got lots of people very similar to you in the past. You know, things change around. I went, yeah, right O. And then sort of sat on it for a couple of days and rang him up and went, let's do this. You're right. All the things that he sort of told me and, and that I knew, I knew it. That was correct. So met Harding, you know, the coach from the, for the Knights. Just a really nice young fellow that. Super keen and super, you know, full of energy and positive affirmations. Got into the 21 day challenge. All of a sudden my life started turning around. Like in, you know, in days. Wins. You'll say it. You know, it's those wins thing. It was all about just ticking off those small wins, building confidence in yourself, which I found just amazing. I had a. Those of you probably remember, Scotty remembers. You know, I was 11 days in to, to the 29 day challenge. Feeling awesome, living at my daughter's place. Had my shirt off, doing the, doing the workout. She asked me to spray some cockroaches. I sprayed the cockroaches around the hot water system and the whole thing exploded. You know, ended up on the floor, against the wall, on the floor. She ran out, what are you doing? And are you okay? And I went, no, not really. And she was on the floor and I went, I think that's all my skin from my torso. So I'd burnt basically, you know, half of the front of my torso. So end up in hospital. Went down to Royal North Shore and sort of. Harding. Yeah, I spoke to Harding a couple of days later. I was still trying to do, you know, still walking every day. I was still trying to do that. You know, a month before that I would have just felt sorry for myself and thought I was an idiot and, you know, laid in bed. So, you know, that weekend I came home, met Chris Hurley, which is another HBF guy up in Newcastle, and sort of, you know, he sort of said, what. What are you doing here? And I went, it's. It's the brotherhood. This Is it, You know, this is. I'm in. And you know, he's kind of, he kind of, you know, he's one of those guys that, you know, just always positive and, and about HPF and, and I guess, you know, lending into Cosby, we're going to talk about later. That was the first, that was the first hook in Gal Nikazi because he'd been, you know, this was sort of April 25th and he'd been in November the year before and he just started telling me about HPF and Coy and how good it is and he got that hook into me. So anyway, that's, that's a bit of my introduction there, Al. It was quite dramatic. But went back into that 21 day challenge and started it again and done every, every item, every day and started leaning into the Monday charge ups with blokes like Scotty and Harding and that and yeah, changed my life.

Yeah. Tough time too for you as well, Mel. Appreciate the sharing the insights and I mean just some of the traumas and struggles, you know, in family and self more notably with what you shared. It's not easy, man, but it's pretty easy to just pull away and retreat and give in and give up. So, you know, credit to you for sticking with it. Mike's a legend too, mate. Such a great and gentle soul. So I'm glad that he was able to help you in making what was the right decision for yourself ultimately, which is what we're all about. What I love about this though, boys, is the. And yeah, and like all of you guys, you're an inspiration, Mel. And that's what I love most about this community. And what I love though is the spread of experience. You've got. We've got something like Sean Hutton, right? These kids have been moved out for 160 years. So you can ask him, hey, mate, fucked up. That's been, you know, 16 decades. How do you keep going? And then you got someone like Coach Harding, mate, dude's a legend. He's finishes his HSC this year, so he's Harding, our coach of Knights is in high school so he's doing well as a younger fella. But actually when I look at this, it's funny, we got a whole panel of Knights here and they're crushing it. So much so that I've got a note from Ed. Ed Armstrong, who's the head coach of the Fire Breather, said that the squad he's most afraid of this year is the Knights. And you think that they'll beat the Fire Breathers and win. So I'm not sure for you fire breathers listening to this, what that means for you, but yeah, I'd be, I'd be challenging Ed on that as well for sure. But we've got a great crew here and I, I love the, the energy in all of the squads. But bml, what I love is the, the wisdom. It was phenomenal having you at Cozy, mate. And, and having the, the, the widespread level of, yeah, maybe youth in some of the younger men and going through. And then the wisdom of the older men. So it's the energy balance as well. It's a beautiful thing. Beautiful thing. Jeff Ro, Mr. Brown. Geez, you're about to, you're launching into a completely new lease on life. And in the second half, man, we'll walk us through some of the struggles, the pre HPF drift and challenges. Pre aware man, given your expertise and in general in life. But where was life for you before hpf, man? And where are we heading now? What does that look like for you?

Yeah, I think first of all, I think fire breathers are worried because they saw Mel without a shirt on at Cozy. But all of us are ready to go get them. But yeah, for me, like you said, I thought I could handle myself. Also Mel said same thing I thought I was a year into separation when I sort of found hpf. I was pretty much burning the candle, trying to keep up with everything. I remember just being at my cousin's house because he lived 10 minutes down the road from my work and just in the spare bedroom, scrolling doom scrolling. Just trying to find. Because I always felt like there was just this piece I didn't understand or I was missing because, you know, from my background, I've worked in a lot of health spaces, mental health. I've run national suicide awareness programs. I've done a lot in the mental health space and mindset and you know, strength and conditioning training and understanding the mindset behind that. And there was still just this one piece missing. And, and once I sort of, it was kind of, kind of funny. Like the one ad that came up for, for HPF was talking about the whole Chief Panda Viking. And it was literally that moment I was just like this. The Chief was the one thing that I didn't understand and I'd never been taught that, you know, I can break that down further but it's just this one sort of dynamic element I just didn't understand. I had no experience in. And so I was, you know, always the type of person that would put myself last a Little bit. But I would sacrifice myself for the family, for the kids. I'd do anything for the kids, do anything for my. For my ex to, you know, build a family up and see what we can do and going forward. But, you know, once everything sort of blew up, I was still searching for answers a year later, thinking I could handle myself. And then I came in about July 24th a little bit. I think I'm the OG here. But the. Yeah, once I sort of got into the program a bit and really stood, understood it, I think it was that moment where I really understood it was just, you know, being the chief I was leading in the workplace, in service, I was leaning everywhere else but at home. And so it took a little while for me to sort of understand and change the dynamic mindset in myself around. I go first with everything. And I even sort of, you know, about three months, I think about. It was about October when Scotty joined. It was sort of. I was sort of falling a little bit off the perch again because I was just burnt. I was absolutely burnt out. So I lived on the Sunshine coast, worked in Brisbane. My work were looking at. They pretty much abolished work from home, so they said, you have to come in five days a week. So I'm traveling up and down. That's why I'm staying in Brisbane and whatnot and burning myself out trying to deal with kids and all that stuff. And, yeah, sort of burnt myself out again. And around that October point, and that was that moment where I was like, all right, this is enough. I need to really look after myself and put myself first here. And I think from that moment, it's changed and I've had to completely change my life. Like, I ended up quitting that job because it just wasn't serving me. And that was the biggest rock that I needed to move in order to release myself from that. And it was a scary moment because you're basically just quitting your job, going into a. Starting a business from scratch, so there's no money there. It takes a little while for that to build up. And I'm still building and building momentum. And one thing you said about momentum before is it's so important to, you know, take the baby steps and do the little details and build it and build it and build it. And then once that momentum's going, it's really hard to stop. And I even notice it in myself. Like, once I. Once I'm going, I'm really going. And the only thing you've got to really watch out for then is Distractions and little things that will try to tear you off the road or anything like that, or tear you out of your space. So I think now, you know, it's been a long time almost, you know, coming up to two years in HBF now, and I would never look back having done this. Like, the. Just the accountability I get from the boys in here is second to none, and that's what keeps me going. Like, anytime that I've, like, I'm struggling with something or I'm just like, you know, it doesn't. Something doesn't feel right. I'm feeling a little bit down on myself because something hasn't worked out. And, you know, it's becoming less and less, and I just lean into the group, lean into the brotherhood, you know, call them, call one of the boys and just talk things through. And it's. Yeah, it served me greater than anything else. And the lessons I've learned through the being the chief and having been knowing that I am the prize and that's how it works. And that leadership energy. And I. I see it, I feel it. Even when I talk to. Talk to women now, these days, I notice it straight away. Like, those dynamics I just didn't even realize before. So it's been a long road. Still got a long way to go. No doubt about that. But definitely this year, I'm on the upward trajectory, and it's like a rocket ship now. I'm ready to go.

Absolutely, man. And you talk about accountability. I mean, Jeff, when I first met you in person, I was like, this is a pretty big dude. He's got some good muscles. So you keep me accountable to keep lifting weights. So the next time I see him person, I can. I can keep matching you, mate. I think it might have been a project. Before my first workout in Breezy, I was like. And we'll pumped up. I was like, this dude's pretty stacked. And then I see Scotty's abs. I'm like, okay, I gotta do a thousand scissors a day every time I wake up and get out of bed, mate. Just crossing the legs over in a half V. Sit.

Right?

But that's. But that is. As much as that seems like a joke. It's true, man. Like, I want to be fit as fuck by the time we come to our Brisbane event in March. And I'm on track for that. But that's what I love too. And it's not just about posturing, pride, or ego. It's just there. It's using accountability for what it's what has been Made for. So, so then for you men listening, what is accountability? I just wrote this then as you're talking, Jeff. Like being accountable is actually pretty simple. It's being actively responsible for your actions, mate. How's that not one of the most fucking valuable things in life? Being actively responsible. Like we should all be responsible, right? But actively responsible for our actions. Like account. I'm accounting for. I'm accountable too. So I'm giving an account of what I've done to this person. You know, like an. I wouldn't say I'm accountable to my kids, but I'm accountable for them, right? Because they're not fathers like me going through the same. Whereas I'm accountable to you men. It's a brilliant thing, man. And too often we. And I'll come back because I want to give you guys some of the nitty gritty and the tactics like Mel, you mentioned the five Cs. Cool, let's unpack that. Sean, I'll cut to you in a second, man, and get what's a tool or tip that's worked for you? Jeff, mate, let's unpack the Chief index and, and Scotty and so on. But one thing I find, man, is like, especially with the Chief, like too often we bury our head in the sands thinking that it'll sort of sort itself out that that never happens. Or we, we try and overcompensate, right? So if I do abc, it'll cover xyz. So I'm coming in bringing the money and that sort of stuff that compensates for. Or I'm deficient or there's a skill gap inside of my marriage or my emotional intelligence or my presence with the children. Men, the reality of life is not all things are measured equally. And whether you believe that's sure not as irrelevant subjectively. Every single human being has a different view on what value is and rightfully so. Like a five year old son has a different set of things that he values in life or finds attractive or worth the time and effort. Compared to my wife. Compared to baby Flossy who just wants to drink milk on the tit, shit, scream and be cuddled, right? Bit different to what you boys value at the moment. So that, that's a, that's a big trap I think, Jeff. We, we overcompensate. Which then is. Leads to a lot of men who can be Vikings at work and they push hard, they know what to do. But then there's this real skill gap at home. So I can't wait for you to unpack that a little bit more and what being the chief means to you and that that whole index. But Shauna, what's the. I guess talking tactics, man, Is there a tool or, or, or yeah, I guess a methodology or a principle, you know, that, that you found in HBF that, that's helped you man in, in your journey.

Oh

yeah. So with which again I'm always resort back to breath work and meditation. That's hands down, I think is the biggest tool. But inside our 21 day challenge, no screen time. Fuck the phone off. You know, put that phone down and leave it, leave it on charge. Get home, find a time that you suit. So if you're going to work, go till five or six, whatever works for you, turn, put on charge, piss it off, you know, and then you get that nose freeing time. I found starting with your sleep is the biggest thing to go for. So you know, like I'll try and I'll have a calming tea or you know, something like that. And I've just recently just trying to learn to read books before bed as well. Like I'll just go through and do a few pages or whatever that winds me down where most well before I do some screen time, which is no good. But I highly recommend too for people to get a watch to track their sleep because it becomes a game. It really does because like I'm so competitive. Like shit, last night for the first time ever, I got a 95% sleep score. And you know, it's frigging it just because I did get a good sleep. But it is a game. And then when you start to see your score go down, you're like, shit, I need to change something. Or you just start to play those little games for yourself to realize or you know, what's the night before you go, all right, I was, I didn't put my phone away. So look at the down downside of where my sleep went. And then that's with the meditation just before sleep, you know, and then, you know, get. And then having your routine, just waking up. So if it's five or whatever, getting yourself anywhere from six and a half to seven hours sleep is a good pocket, you know. And then on the weekends, let yourself have that sleep for your eight hours, you know, to reboost your energy or so forth. But yeah, realistically key points was start with your sleep to get yourself regulated and then find your pockets to start moving. You know, where it's. You find cut. You be calmer, you're regulated. And then you go, okay, I've Got time to do X, Y and Z for the morning before you start your day. Whether that might be a walk, more breath, work. So whatever it may be, but that's. Yeah, I think a rundown of trying to focus on sleep first and then everything else will come in between. And again, try and find whether it's a. Watch your bands. I don't know. There's probably an app on your phone too, to. To track your sleep. I'm not sure, but that and that. Like I said, I'm competitive, so I really love, love working all those statistics out and then having. And then working off, then you've got to find a baseline before you can work on anything.

Yeah, I love it, man. And look, the reality is guys like you look at sport and other things, life is the greatest game of all. One thing I'm really excited too, Sean, is which I'm excited for the members. We've created a way to. And have a formula and a weighting and everything in place where we've actually gamified HPF and life as a father in family, self and service. So offer members rolling that it to you boys next quarter, which is very exciting. And, and for you guys, mate, that's a huge thing for me as well. It's like, oh, shit, my score's gone up, my score's going down. And using that as your. As your compass of focus, it's a powerful thing. And how much life can change just with a couple of small little steps, like you mentioned, Shawna, which then become the habits which then create the big changes. I mean, life goes so quick anyway, boys, right? Like, it's. The biggest changes come from those little small steps, like you mentioned, mate, at the time of recording this, like in a week's time, we're halfway through February. And me, mate, halfway through the second month of 2026. Yeah, like this, the. The 80s is nearly 50 years ago. That's. That's scary. Not that some of us were born then, but Mal was born a little bit earlier again, you know, but man, that's. That's crazy. But I love it, Sean. It's, it's. It's. It's all those little things that really add up, man, and gamifying it because we don't like, let's be real, right? If you listen to more than two podcasts, we definitely don't attract men who don't want to win. We attract those who are ambitious, they're hungry, they want to win this game, this game of life, so to speak. Mal, do you want to speaking like tools, tips, tactics. Do you want to walk us through like the five Cs that's more notably fellow's been something we've distributed and provided through our Red hot marriage playbook. We talk about communication, connection, commitment, control, confidence. But yeah, I guess Mal would be awesome to get an update on, on where things are at in your world too mate with you and, and those close to you that you love and care about and also the five Cs and how you've applied them.

Yeah, thanks, Alex. Yeah. Child of the 70s. Yeah, early, very early 70s. Yeah. I think as I mentioned before, like I was in a place where, you know, I wasn't sure what to do and how to do that and lend into the content. Lend into, you know, you got that ticking off the, the, the content in here and actually got, got excited about, you know, doing this module and getting a tick, doing that module, getting that tick, you know, that Doberman achievement type stuff. And I was winning, I was winning on the 21 day challenge. I was ticking off the, the content and yeah, the five C's one was one that sort of, really, really sort of hit me because the communication was the bit where my wife Rebecca, you know, that was, that was one of the things that was just fading and probably when we thought about it hadn't been right for some time. You know, I'd like to, I'd like talking, talk flat out and you know, thought that I was, you know, from my leadership training and the skills that I'd learned in my service part of my life, you know, I can fix anything. Oh, we just need to talk about it more. And you know, in hindsight she wasn't actually talking. So in the commit in the, in the five C's I think you talk about it's that, you know, there's a balance there between, you know, talking and listening and, and then actions. So I think of the five Cs, the first one for me was, was it that was the biggest thing for me. That was the one that sort of went, oh. Because Rebecca had even said, you know, you try and fix me all the time. You, you know, you just, yeah, you're talking and that type of thing. So it was really one that, it's one of the, one of the ones that like really hit me between the eyes and I've gone, yeah, okay. So something that, that has really worked in my service life wasn't working in my personal, especially that, you know, that partner relationship. Yeah. So that, that was, that was the key part of that those five Cs, I think the six Cs I think you talk about, Alex, which is the certainty. And it was actually gaining that certainty about what I, what I wanted to do and what I wanted to achieve was, was a key thing for me through, you know, through the brotherhood, talking to people, building my confidence and that sort of thing and going. I can actually learn. So the big word for me was. Was growth throughout 2020, was throughout 2025. I'll talk about that a bit later, but I've got a thing that I've been talking with Harding. I have a yearly word that I fall into and then I have a monthly word. And what they're for. What those words are for for me is they're big words and some of them quite powerful, but they're. When I'm in a hole, when things aren't going the way I want them to, whether, you know, whether a stack's quite dynamic or it's sort of led up to that, I stop, probably what Sean says, I stop and breathe. But I lean into my word. What's my word for this month? What's my word for the year? So that's. I, yeah, I find that so much so, so powerful. And I've done that since Cosi, but I'll talk about that a bit later. But back to the, Back to the five C's. For me, the, the connection, if you get the communication bit right, then that leads into the connection. You know, Rebecca and I are. We were parted for about 10 months. We're back together after a couple of weeks after Cosi, we got back together and rebuilt that connection. So that's been, and that's been going really well. We're not the same people. We've actually, I, I think, you know, I'm a better husband, I'm a better person. I'm a better man for the things that I've learned and, and Beck's also, you know, been on her own journey and, and learning and growing. So that was, that was quite, quite powerful. But I think some of the, the back end of the, the five C's now are more important now that I'm back there and understanding those, you know, about, about our commitments, about our commitments to each other, about our achievements. As you get older, you know, some of those achievements, you start to get hung up on them a little bit more probably than when you're younger. So it's about talking out, talking those things out. So comes back to that number one, that comes back to being on the same page, having each Other's back type of thing and not the control. I know, Alex, you talk about the control bit, but it's about sometimes it's about not striving for being in control all the time. It's about letting go, knowing when to let go and knowing when not to. And that builds confidence in yourself and it builds confidence in the partnership that you've got with your partner. Yeah, five Cs were really powerful to me, but I do, I keep falling back on that. The first two really are the two important ones for me that I found really drove my behavior and was able to with a lot of other content. You know, there's so much content in here that, you know, for the first, I don't know, first six weeks, that's all I pretty much done was went through all that Jeff mentioned before, you know, what was I missing? And that that was the same thing for me. You know, I've done a lot of leadership training. I've done a lot, had a lot of conversations. I've had, you know, I've been coached by corporate psychologists that changed my life, all that sort of stuff. And here I was like the most important relationship in my life. I couldn't, I couldn't work it out. So I had to lean into different content. So when I found this and I went, oh, there's so much information and, and, you know, just core information of why didn't I know this stuff? So, yeah, it was really, really powerful. Thanks, Al.

Yeah, brilliant share, man. And all of the stuff fellas that you see in HBF has been birthed out of thousands of men before you and men here today because we keep evolving and adapting and tweaking. And so it's not when I say what I love about the content or what HPF provides, it's not what Al created. It's. It's all the stuff that you men have contributed to over the years. What I love most about that is all of the, the, the principles, the philosophies, the methodologies, they're. They're all actionable patterns, right? So what Mal's talking about with the five Cs, it's not A, it's not a concept of thought. It's an actionable pattern. Like even communication, right? Talking, listening, and example, right? Doing their three types of communication. There's possibly a fourth hidden one, which is nothing. Because not communicating is probably a form of communication, right? Not choosing is a choice. But these patterns, they're very powerful, man. Cause it covers the who, the what and the how. So, so when we look at these patterns, it's like the who is like the identity. Like, who am I choosing to turn up as? Who do I choose to be? Who am I in this moment? And yeah, albeit it's funny and I love the Snake game, but fuck me, like, do any of you guys still have a Nokia 5110 anymore? So people hold on to these old stories, these old beliefs, whether they serve you or not, prop up and protect your ego or pave the way of a victim mentality that pulls away from life. People hold onto all these identities that are 10, 15, 20 years old. But you wouldn't hold onto an old phone. You're upgrading every one to three years. Why? It's crazy, isn't it? Instead of going, well, who's Mal model this year, like you said, you're in a cooning, well done, man. Like, congrats for you and Rebecca as well. But, you know, look, but that's awesome. It's not the outcome that matters, it's the pursuit of your greatness that provides the path of those pin drops which are outcomes throughout the rest of your life, with or without a person, significant other, children, grown adolescent, infant. It's awesome. It's awesome, Mal, because you're different now in 2026 than you were in 25, than you were in 24. And that's how men you should look at this. Especially if you're filled with guilt or shame or other things like don't turn away. Whether you're in the community or not, that's your time to triple down and come back in. There's no shame or judgment here. And if you're outside the community, well, fuck, mate, that's a dangerous pattern to keep going into. And then you've got the what, which is the behaviors. What am I actually doing? And then you've got the how, which I'll go to you next, Jeff, on that's leadership, right? Leadership is the house. You've got identity and then you've got behaviors and then you've got leadership. Identity is who am I turning up as the behaviors are, what am I actually doing? And the leadership was how am I going about it? How am I actually leading? And that's what I love about the Chief Index, which I haven't expanded on, which I will do on the Seafarer, the Mountaineer and the Farmer. But, but also there's, there's, there's four types. Sorry, there's five types, men. You've got the over index Viking and the over index Panda. And then you actually have the misaligned chief and the shapeshifter. And then you've got the Chief, but without going into those other two, which I haven't spoken to you boys about either. But keeping it real simple, which I love. Viking Panda Chief. Walk us through that, Jeff. Like, what was. What was that aha for you? Because there is a real skill gap. Like, my father was a pretty ruthless Viking at times, but super loving. He got the beaten out of him from his old man who's. Who used to do it for fun, the old Italian. But then I can only imagine what my Nuno went through, right? Because he. Obviously it's learned behavior. So whilst my old man gave me some. That's for sure. He.

He.

He was. He was the. He was the shapeshifter. Super Viking, super panda, you know, but yeah, Jeff, I'd love to see what your thoughts are on, I guess. Yeah. These principles and methodologies, more notably the Chief and how that's helped and served you. And because what I love, boys, you get understanding. It's our language. It's ours belongs to us. Not al. It's not Alex, it's ours. It's HPF's language and the terminology just lands for us, for men, and then it's applicable. But yeah, Jeff, talk us more through the Chief man and your takeaways and how it's helped.

Yeah, it was something similar. Like, I had that same question. It's like, why didn't I know this? Like, why. How did I never learn it? But, um, the Chief side of things for me was just not understanding how much of leadership I needed to bring into the home. I think a lot of it comes down to how you raised a lot of things that come up in life as, you know, as you get older. A lot of things that really raise their head is due to down, you know, how you've been raised and whatever challenges, traumas, whatever you haven't dealt with or haven't been able to deal with because it's too painful. But in my case, I had a beautiful, loving family. My parents are still together and support me great. And I had great grandparents and all that sort of stuff. And I was always taught, like, even when I was doing my wedding day and whatnot, my grandparents were always like, as long as you put in 150% each, you know, then this will work. And it was. And when I look at that now, it was always around. I was there in service of my wife, like, to.

To.

To be there for her, to. To shoulder the load, like I'm all. I've always been very resilient person. And I was. Whenever I see her struggling, I'd be like, that's cool. I'll take it. I'll take it on board. I'll take this. I can do this. I can. I can start cooking all the dinners. I can start doing this. And I take more and more and more on and, And I didn't really see that. I was just destroying myself in the process by just taking on so, so much instead of actually leading the family. Because when we come back to the chief, part of it was with, with my family. So my parents had a business when they were younger and then, you know, it, it did all right. And. But then they sold that business and, and mum actually did an mba and mum became the breadwinner. And once that happened, then, you know, I think a lot of the dynamics of that, you know, Dad's still a bit of a panda these days. Like, he's, he's, he loves the joke around and, you know, that sort of st. But mum became the breadwinner and looked after all of finances, looked after all of that sort of stuff. And so that dynamic then shifted and sort of like, it's almost like, okay, well we're subservient to you now. Like, and it was more like,

you

know, putting her on a pedestal in that sense. And I, I sort of invertedly, sort of just learned behaviors became that in my marriage with my wife. Like, I, I just, you know, yeah, I loved her too much to the point where it's like I put her on a pedestal and I became too available and, and you know, I'll do whatever I needed to do to serve that. And I think a lot of. I reflected a lot on those sort of ideas and lessons that were taught back in the day, but I didn't really understand the leadership. Part of the chief that really comes through is when everyone is looking to you to hold the strength for the family and to be able to go, well, this is, you know, to make decisions to set the tone to, you know, eliminate the chaos that can come with life and kids and family and all that sort of stuff. And you have so much control and power over that and being able to manage that. I think that's a, it's, it's a huge dynamic that I was missing and I didn't understand and I'm still, you know, I still work towards and these days, but I, I, you know, and my biggest thing now is just really, really dialing in on the communication side. Of things like when someone. When someone says something to me, especially if, like, my ex still says something to me and she's dysregulated and. And what is that real message coming through? And then how do I then come back with that and go, well, no, this. We're not having an argument. I'm calm about. This is just the issue, and this needs to be changed. And it's just simple leadership like that. You don't have to raise your voice. You don't have to get into it over little things like that. It's just calm. I see the path. This is the path we're taking. And, you know, and you bring your partner with you on that. I'm doing the path by myself at the moment because I don't have a partner. But it's like, it. That doesn't matter. Like, because once I've got to rebuild myself first before I bring anyone back into that path with me, there's no. I think it'd be very unfair of me to actually drag someone into this space now while I'm rebuilding myself. But when it really comes down to it now and, you know, versus what it used to be, it was back then I was always doing things, sacrificing everything for my family, for kids, you know, everything. I, you know, stopped. I wasn't working out as much. I was still training whenever I could. But, you know, I've got fitness trackers and all that, and I've been right into that for many years and actually working with them. And I was, you know, read at least two or three times a week. You know, I was just borderline burnout by Friday every week and whatnot. And that was just purely because I was sacrificing and I wasn't actually doing everything. And the biggest move was obviously quitting that job. For me, it was. Once I could do that, then I could actually realign everything. And then everything's just started to just smoothly sail and the momentum kicks in. And then my health increased. And I think within about three or four months, I gained about five kilos of muscle and lost about five kilos of fat just from just in doing my training, even just doing my walks, just getting out and moving and just cutting out all the driving and all the. All the other crap and actually just realigning and going, what's important? What's important to actually get us forward and cut out the little things that don't matter. And then that's the real leadership. And then the communication side was the other biggest part for me. So I touched on that before where, you know, now I can calmly sort of hear what someone's saying, and I can understand, okay, well, what you're saying, this is the actual issue over here and what you're actually saying. So I can actually help you and lead that, Lead that conversation, help that person through that moment, as opposed to, you know, back, you know, a couple of years ago, I would, I would hear that dysregulation as a, as an attack on me, and I would. I was very strong in that space for about, you know, 612 months that I wasn't good enough. And I was never good enough. I was never going to be good enough. Because I know if nothing, no matter how hard I tried, nothing was ever good enough. And I couldn't even get it right. But that wasn't even the issue. So it's, it's really understanding what people are saying to you. And if you, when you really dial into it and understand how they're communicating to you, whether they're regulated or not, you still hold your frame, and that is what the Chief does. You still hold that. You, you know, I can show you the way. I can. No, I can put a stop or this situation's wrong. No, that's not right. I, you know, I mean, and call out the bullshit. You know, part of being that panda was, you know, not wanting to hurt her feelings too much, you know, if there's something going on. Because, you know, I'm waiting for the jokes, but I'm a pretty big guy, so I can get pretty intimidating when I'm like, get angry about something. So it's, it's understanding how that communication comes through and, and, and doing it with a vision and purpose of, you know, moving forward and how you're leading someone as opposed to just reacting and responding. I hope that sort of covers the way I sort of see it in, in the Chief, but it really is brought away from, you know, sacrificing yourself, you know, coddling others and, and how you speak to them and that sort of thing versus, you know, you come first. I look after my health first and getting enough sleep. And then, you know, I can lead through my communication, through my actions and, and that responsibility that we have every day.

Yeah, very well explained, man. And guys, it's not about putting yourself above others. It's just putting yourself first so you can then serve others around you and give them a lifting hand. Be the prize for your family. You know, be a hundred to give a hundred. Like, you always see that. Like, if you look at the language of hpf, every single fucking letter means something like, there's no waste the. Yeah, now, very well explained, man. The hardest part, too, fellas, is understanding that, yes, the circles cross over. So what you do at work, there's a crossover with family and self for sure. So if you look at the three circles of significance, they all cross over. Then there's a triple section where they all cross over each other entirely. And there's. There's you, the man in the middle, Right. But also, every single circle has its very own universe. So whilst you being the chief in your physical health and wellbeing and your business or place of work, there's only a little crossover there. It only. It only overlaps the whole circle of family a little bit. So then it's like, where's the chief? For the family which is divided into the sections of, obviously your offspring, your children or an extended family. Sure. But more notably, those intimately underneath your roof. Right. So your wife and kids. That's what makes it tough. So when we talk about, like, even, like Mel, to your point, about control with the five Cs, a lot of times, guys, it's trying to, like, relinquish control that we're asserting outside of ourselves and then just regathering that inside. And I remember hearing someone talk about, you know, like, 80 of marriages are successful based off selection. And everyone nods their head and says, oh, yeah, that's right. You know, I chose the wrong wife or I chose the wrong husband. It's like, no, no, no. This guy, when I can't remember, might have been Tony Robbins. He goes on anyway, to talk about, no, no, it's about who you select to be in that relationship in that moment. Because at the start, it's all, I'll do everything, I'll go bum me, and it's all honeymoon, blah, blah. Because I could be an absolute tyrant to my wife or I could be an absolute panda. There's times where I'm neither, neither, both of those. But close to where I'm more of a full viking, more of a full panda, and then the chief, which is that sweet spot in the middle, you can't always be the chief too, Right. Otherwise it's too rigid. You lose an element of not enough play or not enough discipline in the decisions that you make. So that was one thing too, where we look at, like, who are you selecting to be? Which can be a real tough one, Jeff. Like, we speak about the skill gap of relationship dynamics and good intentions, but no woman will ever want to be 150% held accountable.

Right.

Like, women don't like accountability. And it's not that I don't necessarily like the facts. It's just that their life's driven through their emotional state, which then drives the eyes and lens and how they see the world. So, yeah, tough, man. Tough to be as rigid as we can be with men in holding women accountable, that's nothing against women, too.

It's.

That's the science, man. And we all have. We all have observable evidence of that. So. So when we look at this, it's a real tough one, Jeff. When all good intentions, you get what you tolerate. And that's the hardest part. All good intentions, we get what tolerate. But then with that, guys, not that I'm comparing our wives or our children or workers or colleagues to dogs, but, man, I got two dogs. If they fucking bit my children every time they came out when it was feeding time and I did nothing. That's not compassion or understanding. It's supporting a behavior through absence of correction or a lack of clarity on my position. That's what that is. Right? So I'm not saying that there's a physical action required, but if Corinne is out of line, which is why it's so important as a man, because there's plenty of evil men, too, so important as a man to have a set of values and core principles you live by, to have a vision on what's best for everyone, to be able to forecast that through gaining insights and feedback of what value is defined as. Through every single one of my four children and my wife.

What do you value?

What do you want out of this life? Can I provide that? How so? Being the visionary is a collective, not just this is my way or the highway. When you have that foresight and that stability, well, then, yes, you should command more presence and respect and. And. And waiting in your. In your views, your opinions. So if Corinne's out of alignment with. With these agreements, so to speak, that we have on a way of living in life, well, then I'll either make an action to correct her through asking reflective questions that doesn't paint any contradiction or hypocrisy, but helps her understand the situation or whether she's being led by feelings or facts and. Or if there's nothing that has stopped my, hey, wash my hands. Got nothing do with me. I will then give clarity on my opposition to her position and her statement. It's like, hey, I'm okay if you're not okay with this, but I think that's Corinne I don't stand for that. So if you want to carry on like that, cool. But if that impacts me or the kids, we've got a problem. But if you want to keep doing that and that destroys yourself, fucking great. Go nuts. Not that I've had that type of conversation, but you get my point. So that's a. I remember hearing that and it sounds hard, man. You get what you tolerate, but it's like, fuck, so true, man. It's why the chief matters, right? How we lead. But yeah, brilliant, brilliant shares Jeff. The Scotty. So, you know, obviously you stepping more into probably being. Bringing some Viking back and becoming the chief as you move forward through the back end of 25 and into 26. What, what do you. Because it's all well and good to have the theory, but then the practice and the application, right? All of you guys have a common thread of the brotherhood, helps us follow through on what we know needs to happen and is most important. But you had a beautiful analogy, man, about the rock. But do you want to share, I guess, what the brotherhood means to you of hpf? And if you want to share that analogy, you can. I know it went for 73 minutes at cozy, so we probably can't spend that much time on it, but now, look, all jokes aside, it was brilliant. We did capture on video, so I think that'll be a very special piece that we put on our website. But yeah, man, I'd love to get what the tribe and brotherhood actually means to you and also, you know, bounce around with some of the other boys on your experience in general.

Yeah, absolutely, mate. Yeah, some awesome shares there, obviously from Mel, Sean and Jeff and really rounds out the compliment of men we have in hbf and also obviously the Knights under the watchful leadership of Harding and some incredible, some incredible chats that I've had with Harding over the, over the last year or two. And a big part of it has, you know, has been that. That circling back on myself and for too long leading into my entry in hpf, I'd been, as, you know, a wonderful leader in the titans in. Lee has shared about the wearing of masks and I was definitely wearing plenty of masks. I was wearing masks in, in my relationship and my dealings with, with the, you know, the other side of my family and now refer to the outlaws. But you know, it's, it's funny how, how we can sell away so much of ourselves, so much of our identity at different times in our life and then a finger can get clicked and all of a sudden you're left with yourself. You know, I had so many relationships there that I'd built over 16 years, a very long time, and many of them just bashed. It really shows you the importance of owning yourself and owning the person you are. And I think the people within here, the people within HPF just create that environment, they create the right environment in order to grow and to grow back into that version of yourself. We talk about version 2.0, version 3.0 and so on. And yeah, it's really been a massive weight off my shoulders. Not nearly as much as the weight that legend Mark McNee would have off his shoulders if he dropped the weight vest from Cozy or, or maybe some of the traps that he carries around. But yeah, the energy and the accountability, as Jeff referred to earlier, is just second to none. So the brotherhood within HPF is a huge driving force for my involvement and my continuity within here when new members join. Actually, I'll go to the analogy and I'll make it short. I'll get down to at least 71 minutes this time. So, yeah, I guess a little takeaway for me, I always bring rocks. So this is my hobby. Rocks and looking at geology in my normal job of dealing with earthworks, contractors, drillers, landholders, native title reps, government agencies, flying drones. Yeah, all the rest. Every now and again I like to look at rocks and find a way back into that passion. But at the top of Cosi, you gave us, I guess, a task which was to leave something up on top of the mountain. I'll openly share what. The key thing that I left at the top, there was resentment. I haven't looked back. And 2026 has been an amazing time so far and the end of 2025 for me, after leaving that up there. But yeah, being a, being a geologist, I decided to take a, take a rock as well. And this one stood out to me, which is you might, might be able to see it there. So it's a coarse grain grant. You see these grant tours up the top of the, the mountain there at Ociuszko, and sometimes you'll see another inclusion within it. So that's called a xenolith. And essentially what's happening is as the, as the magma melt rises up through the crust, it can pick up pieces of the surrounding surrounding country rock. And as it rises closer to the surface, it'll cool and crystallize into this amazing coarse grained granitic rock that we'll see at the top and we'll have these fine grained inclusions in there as well. And what that symbolizes is it symbolizes the capacity of that melt to grab on to these parts of the country rock as it's ascending up, we're talking kilometers of depth ascension, this rising force that is unstoppable and it's grabbing onto these things in the environment surrounding it. So it's akin to HPF as a group, as an organization, being able to grab onto these men who are going through some pretty traumatic and pretty hard times in their life. We can all go back and think about that. And a quote that sort of, I guess resonates with me in that, that realm now, from the writer of Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson, Arthur Conan Doyle, is mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself. So when we're in, in that state, that, that fixed state as, as that rock and we see HPF lifting and rising next to us, we have that option. We can stay in that, that point of mediocrity or we can seek that growth. And that's what the vehicle that is, that is HPF allows us to do, to rise up with this collective movement. So that obviously stood out to me at the top of cosi, and it's something that I brought back down, shared with all the men and yeah, trying to convert a few people into passionate rock lovers, that's my ever continuing job out there. But yeah, within that is so much meaning. We take meaning from all parts of our life. Everyone's in a different capacity in their service world and their family and their self. And yeah, it's just a really important capacity builder to be able to zoom out, to be able to take that perspective and to be able to see things in the eyes of a future version, a version 2.0, version 3.0 of yourself, something that you wouldn't have been able to consider as you're running on that system that you're used to for so long. As the other guys alluded to, there's no rulebook to adulthood, there's no rulebook to parenting, there's no rule book to being a husband or being a partner. But what we can do is we can take the wisdom of others and those around us, like the men in here, like the men within hpf, the amazing resources, the access that HPF gives you to the experts out there, killing it in their fields and such a diversity as well, in terms of some of those experts and, and mind shifts around core beliefs and core principles that we may have held onto for too long at the expense of our own growth. So I'm always looking to reach out myself, reach out to new members that are coming in, offer support and offer that, I guess that collective reassurance that they've made the right choice and, and going all in on themselves is just a core ingredient to find that true capacity that they all have. So yeah, if you're sitting on the fence, if you're a bit stuck with the idea of investing so much within yourself, it's time to really take that backward step, zoom out and really consider what are the, what are the flow on effects, what's the opportunity cost if I, if I just stay stagnant, if I stay stationary in this, this point of mediocrity and in at least one part of my life in, in self, family and service. And I can say that, you know, my, I guess my, my influence within my family now as a, still as a, a loving father is just so much more elevated in terms of the right ingredients, the core principles, the time of presence in there, the time of really being that dependable and adaptable person in young people's lives. And yeah, I haven't always walked the rope of being out in the sticks, out in the bush and kicking rocks around. I did a decent stint teaching as well and moved into secondary education. So yeah, that gave me a great, I guess, glimpse into what young people are looking for in their parents. And so much of what that is comes back to the core principles of presence and time. There was, there's plenty of young people that were, that were reaching out and seeking more of their parents and they just couldn't give it because they'd gone, they'd gone too hard on themselves. You know, it's that constant argument, I'm gonna work hard to provide for my children. And meanwhile you've forgotten to live in a moment, forgotten to be that father, to be that core pillar within their life. So yeah, finding, finding an opportunity to zoom out, really reflect on the importance of fatherhood, which is what we're all here for. And going for that hard exploration within yourself is just the real gateway to getting there.

I have made a credible share of written three or four things down here, but the latest one is, yeah, the whole working hard to provide. Right. But brilliant, brilliant shares Scotty. Really love your, your insights and the rock analogies. Bang on, man. Yeah, the capacity of the melt. So it's not like HPF is no easy thing. You don't, you don't walk in and of course we support and, and, and love and care about you, your mission, your ambition as a man and want you to succeed. But Also, it's. It's love. Tough and tough love. It's like, well, fuck, man, come on. This is your commitment, this is your accountability. Let's go. So when you say the capacity of the meltdown, it grabs and pulls. That's. That's done under heat, that's done under friction, under pressure, not. Not through. Yeah, here's the. It's. It's not a, it's not a slippery. It's. What do you call them? Yeah, like the, the slides that kids go down or like at a water park. Yeah, I'll just go down, let gravity do a thing. I'm just whirling around, Bang, I splash in the water. It's nice. It's 26 degrees. Okay, awesome. That's not that at all. So I love that analogy, man, because it's, you know, through the fire of truth and the situation in your life is when you do mold and forge yourself into more. But the thing that. Not to be as smart as. But it's funny is that saying on being able to provide for your children and whatnot and losing size, bigger picture. I'm going to work hard for my children so I can give them everything they wanted by the time they're adults and leave. That's what it is, man. I'm not even being smart because, yeah, I'm going to work hard and triple down for my kids so by the time they're the adults and they fucking leave anyway, I can finally provide for them like that. I want you to let that sink in, man, because that, that's what it is, you know, could. Could we have grown HPF harder? I don't know, had a bigger movement, made more fucking money, all that sort of stuff? Of course. But man, I got a 9, a 6, a 5 and a 10 week old, you know, so I love living the hpf way. And if it's slow, so be it. Because of who I become and all who you men become and throughout the world and providing value to the marketplace. Oh, man, if I'm like this now, by the time I'm in my 50s and 60s, I can make heaps of fucking money. I'll be way more valuable as a man. So when my kids move out and I've got even more time on my hands, you know, like, how do you measure that? How do you measure memories and experiences which money can bring in a little bit, but how do you measure that verse, you know, having more fiat currency in your fucking bank account, mate, and trading that off against your children? But I. So, yeah, that was really powerful. That last bit you said. But the others is like. Like, for those of you who aren't members, or even those who are members, like, it's the same thing, right? Like, we're not here to tell you what to do, but with permission, guidance and direction for sure. Hey, Mal, don't think, man. Just do this. Five Cs. Bang. Off you go. Like, of course, we're not here to waste your time either. However, for more importantly, those who aren't on the inside, yeah, we're not here to tell you what to do, but let's ask you a question. Okay, cool, man. Let's just stop for three minutes. What do you want out of life? What are you really building? What we life mean when it's done. What does that look like for you? Okay, cool. What's your plan? Like, a real, tangible, actionable plan, not just subjective, not just feelings. What's your plan to get it? Of course. Of course you don't have one. Like, pretty tough when you're stuck with one capacity in your own singular brain, as opposed to a collective or a proven pathway. Hey, guess what? With what you want, we can help you achieve if you want. That's how simple it is. And I say that, boys, because I get it. Like, we're all men. We're all proud. It's like, well, don't tell me how to father, or don't tell me how to. It's like, mate, that's a very closed mindset. You know, my. It's why I'm very conscious of giving people. Yeah, we're hpf, but giving people actual parental advice. I've got some friends who've got young children, right, and they ask advice. I'm like, well, it depends, man. Like, my firstborn didn't sleep for three and a half years. Lillian slept through it six months. Two completely different approaches, you know, Roman different again. Florence different again. So it's like, I can give you guidance on. On patterns and what to look for, but I'm not going to tell you what's the exact answer. Florence is vomiting. Vomiting. Everyone's telling us it's colic. It's this, it's that. Get this medication. Get that medication. They don't know. She's got all the floppy stuff that Roman's got. Super rare. Like, less than 0.1% of kids in Australia born with it, but none of them knew that because they haven't experienced it as a parent. We have with Roman. It was brutal. So that's where it's a really Interesting thing, it's not like we're not here to, to force you into a way of life. It's just. Yeah, what do you, what do you actually want, man? Hey, sweet, what's your plan? All right, well, yeah, it sounds like that's not going to work for you, like, or good luck, but the chances are very slim. We could help you. But the thing here too is Scotty, just picking up what you're putting down around not, not regret, but, but, but sitting on the fence, taking action, like following through, creating a life. The people, People will typically move in life. Not just HPF or joining or other things, but generally in life, in, in general. People will typically move when the pain of remaining the same outweighs the pain of change. Now the pain of change is always a story. It's fuck all in the grand scheme of things because of what it provides you in the now and it gives you your power back. But the pain of the remaining the same is very, it's very, it's very deceitful, boys. It's very deceiving, right, because think about it. Yeah, you know, things aren't great at home, but you're measuring the pain today, right? You get interest charged every week to that bank account, baby. So when you, when you're weighing up whether HPF is for you or anything in life that you know you need to change, the pain of remaining the same needs to outweigh the pain of change. What you need to do is you need to not fight against yourself for the stories and think the pain of change is actually that bad because it's not. It's just one step, you're one second away from your life turning around. But then the pain of remaining the same, what you need to do is you need to front load that, you need to forecast and shoot that out. So not the pain of remaining the same today, what's the pain of remaining the same going to be? So what is the pain in a week, in a month, in a year, across the next 10 years, across the next three decades, across the different relationships in my life, not just in myself, in my wife and my children. When you look at that, oh man, like fuck. HPF's a no brainer. But I'm not here to sell you on anything. I'm just helping you with the tools that'll arm you with knowing that you have a choice. And then that choice allows you full ownership over the path you take. Good, bad and the ugly. Mate, some people fucking enjoy pain. That's why I had a fourth Child. But I'm just kidding, if Florence doesn't listen to these podcasts one day. Now, why are you here then, man? Like, you're in your mid-50s as you. As you. Or you're in your 50s as you've explained and gone through. Yeah. Why keep going, man. Like, what drives you? Because it is an interesting thing. Like Sean o' be in the younger end. Jeff. A completely second lease on life in the second half. Scotty. Exactly the same. Just curious, boys. Like, it's been an amazing session, but I want to, I just love to get your insights and, and, and dig in a bit on, on each of you and what, what drives you, like why, why keep going and growing? Why, why want to become more? But I'll start with you, Mel, and then we'll, we'll shoot over to you. Shauna.

Yeah, thanks, Alex. I think from that little extract you've done, then, it's about trying to be the best version of myself. And you say about, you've got the content, we've got all the things about people that may not be in the group at the moment, if they're thinking about it. What HPF gives you is the opportunity to be the best version of yourself. And it does that through the content, but mainly through the guys. You know, the guys that are on this, on this screen, the guys that are on the Monday charge up the people that, like Jeff said that you can actually just ring up. I found that at Cozy that kind of locked in for me to go for a second year in, in hpf. And why it did that is COSI was just the whole HPF environment on steroids, you know, times 10, you know, the brotherhood, the, the, the, the learnings, the growth, the, the support. They're looking around and going, oh, these are men. These are, these are real men. And I'm actually building real human connections that, you know, I have no problem if I'm having a day, I could ring any one of these three guys on the thing and about another 10. I actually wrote a list on the way home from, from Cosby because I drove home by myself back to, back to Newcastle and I stopped and I actually wrote down 22 names. Yes, there was a hundred people there and I probably had, you know, contact and interactions with 60 of them. But I wrote 22 names down that I believe, you know, I could bring them now and they'd have my back and they'd actually, you know, either challenge me or support me from a place of, you know, real human connection. So why am I, why Am I continuing hpf? It's because of that. And, you know, I've spoken before about my, My, you know, past leadership in. In my service. Well, how do I. How do I expand that? You know, how do I. Actually, Deshaun and I were roommates, which was amazing. You know, he's bloody top fella. And also he says it. How. How it is. He says, he says what he thinks. And I just, you know, really, really enjoyed that. I kind of went to Kosciuszko as a, you know, one of the older guys. Bit of a, you know, I had that imposter syndrome about me. Am I going to be actually able to ride the mountain bike down the hill and not get in the way when Big Jeffy, you know, lost his tire halfway down and got in my way, but, you know, I was pushing him out of the way. You know, I wanted to go, I wanted to keep going. So I was super keen and I actually did it. I got to the bottom. That gave me confidence. The next day, going up the hill with all of these super fit guys, you know, they've done all sorts of things in their life. Am I. Am I going to go up there? Is, you know, Alex going to be carrying Alex and Jeff carrying me up the last bit? That wasn't the case. You know, I had my 10, I had my. I didn't carry on extra plates, but I had my own. There was no way anyone's taking them off me. One foot after the other took off pretty quick, sort of with Harding and a few other guys and quickly realized that, you know, that's not for me. One foot after the other. I stopped once the entire way up there, stopped for five minutes with Jonathan Weber, caught up to him, had a great chat, had a music bar and went again. So I made it. And I was extremely proud of myself for doing that, but I just. It was just that I didn't race. I just one foot after the other every step, and just kept going and going and going. And I think, you know, if we think about the analogies for life, that that's, that's what we have to do. It was hard at that first bit with going up those stairs. You know, I've been to the top of Kosciusko before a few times. I've done a lot of hiking and, and that sort of thing. I've never walked that bottom section, and it was a lot harder than I thought. I was really sucking the breasts in and. But geez, it was rewarding and enjoyable getting to the top. So that's that's why, Alex, why am I in hpf? Because it gave me those opportunities. It gave me that opportunity to grow, gave me an opportunity to understand things. But mainly it gave me the opportunity to talk to the men that are in hpf, you know, great, great men that I now have relationships with. And like I said, that happened over the last sort of 10 months or the first 10 months that happened. But Kosciusko just put that, you know, out of skyrocketed, which was amazing. And that's the, that was the key thing for me. And it is like my word for 20, 26 is legacy. And that's the business I'm in. You know, how do I set up, you know, I might have five odd years to go in my career. How do I set that legacy? That on my watch, it was good, but people are still talking about my watch in time to come. So how do I set that up? And that's with men, you know, it's men that are in hpf. It's my family and friends that aren't in hpf. How do I set that? Legacy is a key word for me this year with my children. My children are amazing, but how do I ensure that they remain that way?

Love that. Mel.

The.

How old are you, mate?

55.

You hear in Mal's voice, right? So we talk about being the best version and my question is, okay, someone hears that or you hear that commercialized throughout personal development, motivational speakers for decades, right?

All that stuff.

But what is it? Why does that, why does that matter though? What does that mean? But right now, if you're listening to this, go and find all the 55 year olds you can and just, just look at the frequency because everything's vibrations and frequencies, right? And listen to them as they speak and they're fucking lifeless, mate. Like most people like that in their 30s and 40s, it's crazy sad. But here's male, 55. So like, if you want, if you want to know the path that's firstly out of your head and into your heart, like what I hear is the heart and soul of Mal going, I yearn to make this time count and to continue to become more. And that's, that's, that's a beautiful thing because whilst most people really fall into slumps in their 30s, cracks in the 40s destroyed by the time they're 50. So it's not a. Oh yeah, I'm 46 and I was unlucky that year. Not at all, mate. It's decades in the making. Over 50s is tough, man. It's. They rarely make it through now. So firstly, huge respect to you, man, but just the vibrance, the vibrancy in, in your voice, mate. And the shares and the stories. You conquering that mountain, that's no easy feat, man. Like you're all. You guys are wearing weighted vests. It was, it was brutal conditions as well. That wind, once you got past the, the lookout, about another K in one or two little hills past the ski lifts. But starting from the bottom was rough. Mal took it upon him, did a thousand squats as well just before he started. Just to make it harder to give the other young blokes a run for their money and give them a head start. But, but it is, it is a, a supremely impressive thing, Mal, to not allow both age and the norms of society to dictate or determine the, the value and energy you can bring to life itself. I saw an interview of this fit dude in his 70s, 75, bricks for ABS popped up on my feed. I'm not sure why, but yeah, I mean I look at some weightlifting and bodybuilding stuff, but this dude, 75 guys interviewing. I was like that, you know, what do you do to stay fit? Like a guy who runs around and does all that stuff. It just popped up. And this guy talks about push ups, pull ups and, and nutrition. He's like, oh yeah, how many pull ups you can do? He's like, oh, you know, 30. 35 over 35 on good days that boys, that's fucking crazy. Like the most I've ever done where I've been extremely fit, very strong and Lean is 18. Like that's mate, that's fucking brutal. And I thought he was taking the piss. He's like, no, let's jump on, mate. You should have seen the first 25. Holy moly. Full lock out of the bottom. It's like the guy who's doing chest to bars, he's about to do a muscle up. He ended up doing 36 just on the spot. This was in the middle of his workout. Like, what the fuck man? This guy's 75 with ABS and he does 36 pull ups. Now I don't know if I'll ever be able to do that. And you've got mechanics and other things in place and I don't know if that's the goal for me either, per se. I'm just sharing. Human performance doesn't need to end because of the number that you turn. And performance across family, self and service is an everlasting and Ever going pursuit, it's a beautiful thing. So I love that mount when I hear the youth in your tone because if you look across the history of the earth, boys, 60 year old is fucking nothing, mate. 70 years is nothing, you know, 80, what is it you do 80 times three? There's Captain Cook arriving in Australia, mate, it's fucking nothing. Three 80 year olds. So why do we think we're old all of a sudden? By comparing to society and folding into the norm of the environments we're surrounded by. Not a chance. Mel, just before we bounce to Sean. Love it, mate. Walk us through these one words. I know you said you wanted to explain it. So legacy for the year, awesome monthly word. And I think you wanted to expand a little bit more on maybe why or how it serves you. We would love that, mate. Before we go to Sean.

Yeah, it's something that I actually heard on the radio and I was in one of those moments through the middle of last year, leaning into the content. Things weren't going as planned and it was some of the content which was around the purpose. And I went, and this lady was talking on the radio about how she has a word for the year and she leans into it when she's in, when she's in trouble, you know, when she's got. When things are going her way. And I went, I'm going to use that. It's a bit like before you said about the circles in life, you know what I mean, that they all join together, things happen. And in the past that would have just happened. I would have listened to the radio and kept driving and went, yeah, whatever. But because I'd read the thing the night before and then heard that, I went, I'm going to use that and put it with that and get a result. So, you know, towards middle, towards the end of last year, I started doing that and having a word for the month that when I was under pressure, didn't matter if it was at work, under pressure, in a conversation, even in sitting in a charge up and somebody goes, oh, Harding says, hey, Mel, what do you think? And I, it's that word to go, why am I here? Why am I doing this? You know, so my words have been, you know, they have been purpose, they've been disciplined, they've been growth, they've been leadership. You know, I've got another 12 for this year that it's just my word and I've got the one for the entire year because that's my 20, 26 year, but I've got one for the month that I can lean into and go, breathe and go, it's okay, meant to be here, you know, you belong, Use your word and just get on with it. So that's what I've done and it works for me the way my mind works and the way that I get results. Because sometimes the confidence isn't there in some of my environments. I need to be confident, I need to be in that position. So I just lean into my system and go, you belong here. Get up there, get on with it. Do it.

Beautiful. Share mate systems. Absolutely. What does the system allow you do? Allows you to focus and move forward. My three words, patience, presence and relatable for my children. But that's for the entire year, right? So maybe, maybe I could bring one word in this month when the kids have just started school in February and it's going to be a shit show because, mate, they're cooked by Wednesday, so they're cranky and you know, because they're back at school and Roman's first time at school, so. Love the first day. Then it's Tuesday morning. Oh, Mom, I'm not going today.

I'm.

I'm done with school. It was good fun, I think also,

Alex, once you have the word and they're all powerful words, you don't just pick flippant things. Once you've done that for a month, it doesn't leave you. Even though you get a new word the next month to lean into, you can actually still fall back on the others because you've actually, I don't know, it's a mind process thing that you go, I can do that, I can do that. That's the key thing for me. It's telling myself and proving to myself that I'm capable. I can do it. Things are going the right direction.

Yes. Yeah. Awesome, mate, awesome. Shawna, thanks for that. Mel. Phenomenal stuff. How about you, Sean? Why keep going? Why are we here? What drives you, man? What's driving you towards your greatness, your legacy and what you want to leave behind?

Well, what was draws me is obviously family, self and service, but I didn't have self before hdf, you know, it was always service, then putting as much as I can into service to grow and then into family and then short shortcomings. I was three days into 28 years old when I started HBS, you know, so I started very young, you know, and it's. I'm coming into my third season, you know, in a few months will be my. I'll be starting my third season of hbf and each year you just grow a little bit more like, you know, Sean 2.0, Sean 3.0. And it's driving me because you, you're unlocking things that you've just never known. Like every time I think I don't need HPF for next year, oh, I somehow I might slip back a little bit, you know, where. And then that's when I'll fall onto the. To the guys, you know, and need help and vice versa, you know, like, and then I'll be held accountable or people need to me to help them accountable. So it's a very, very switchback sort of tribe that we have here. And what keeps me going is that I've had a lot of friends, you know, and Adam Tasker at Cozy brought up, you know, how he, as he grew up with the boys that he grew up around was exactly how I did. Your mates are all there, but the, you know, the names and faces do change and you know, as we get older, you know, like, and things do change. Like, I've got a lot of mates that now are pretty much in the do not call bin because they don't serve me a purpose. And that was a big thing. Takeaway to Cozy. That really made me, I don't know, really knuckle down on, on our, you know, workshops that we've done because it was an eye opener to realize that the guys that were there there are only there to just because you're doing something dumb at that time, they weren't serving you any purpose with hpf. Every single one in here has a purpose towards me. You know, I mean, their stories, you know, their, their efforts, you know, even their losses, for God's sakes, you know, because then it drives me to want to pick them back up like I would do for some person that doesn't give a shit about me. So, you know, what drives me to keep coming back is, is our tribe and to keep unlocking all these new levels of life that we, we're stemming from, you know, like, just. It's unbelievable. Like even the start of this, you know, end of last year, after Cozy come home firing, you know, absolutely firing the belly, I had a good chat with a partner with EB and you know, like, we just sat down and. And it got me going again. And then obviously the Christmas break, you start eating shit a bit again because Christmas dinners and all that sort of come a bit sluggish and whatever. But New Year's Eve, New Year's Day, I was back in that gym and I have gone absolutely firing on all cylinders and you know, again, if I didn't have HPF or didn't have what would keep me going in hpf? It's like I'm thinking about stopping the business, like stop growing the business now I'm thinking about winding it back because it's not serving me how I want it to be. I'm not becoming happy. So it's a big thing. And then I've lent on a few of the guys to ask for help. I even posted a video asking for people's opinions whether I liked them or not. Like most of them I all enjoy. Like I never knock in someone's, but it's good to get the feedback, you know, and if I didn't have HBF or, and I had left because I thought I could do this on my own, I wouldn't have got those feedbacks to feel better about myself and where I'm, where I'm maybe choosing my next path in life, you know. And I remember our phone call, he said, Sean, blokes your age, most of them fucking fail at this, you know, he goes, because they, they think they can do it on their own and you know, they're stubborn, you know, we're arrogant, you know, and which we are like again, I thought the same thing. I was, you know, I thought I can do this myself and I always had you tell me that exact same thing. Go back. I'm like, no, don't be an arrogant prick mate, you need help still. And it doesn't matter where, you know, Mal, 55 years old, he's still getting help, you know, like in trying to, and give help as well. So, you know, my genuine purpose on, on why I keep coming back is the levels, the of life that we're unlocking, the people that I'm meeting and just the all round support. Like you just don't find this anywhere and I don't give a shit. I've got mates that I've been best mates with for years and yes they do have good, good advice for, for me and whatever but it's still not the same. I don't know what it is. It's still just, you know, our Christmas dinner, for God's sakes. It's just a, I want to give back as well. That's my thing. I've taken enough from, from hbf. I think it's time to give back to the guys and really knuckle in and give my brotherhood back, you know, and I mean show them what I've taken from that all the newcomers, ones that you know that are listening to this as well, think about joining. You know, it's. You know, there's always little pockets in life that you may think you've got it all knuckled down, but there will be another pocket of life, another. There'll be even just a simple word that you've never even heard of that will unlock something in. In your brain that will get you that little step further, you know, or just make you that little bit healthier or that, you know, that little bit wiser, you know, you never, never stop learning. And the day you stop learning, you might as well be dead, to be honest. You know, like, it's just. Yeah, like, overall, like, it's just, just. It's fantastic in here. And that's. At the end of the day, it saved my life. It did. Every bit of it. Yeah, I'm getting a little bit emotional because it. My life was, you know, and I didn't have a purpose. I didn't have anything. And this is what I've done. It gave me a vision. It gave me a purpose. Even though you lose it, you sometimes do lose it. You know, old habits do die hard. But I guess that's what, you know, you. You can be one person for so long, but you can change so quickly too. And yeah, my purpose is the family, self and service. And I guess number one is, mate, look after me. Make my cup full. Make it full enough that it spills into everyone around me. Make it over full. And yeah, again, analogy. Be a hundred to give. 100.

An absolute champion. Shawno. That's a fuck. What a. What a beautiful share, man. Like, that's. That. That's pretty special. That's pretty special, mate. You know, and again, taking notes and being a student for life, it's one of our tenets. I look at. I look at me and your age and I mean, fuck me, man. Like, even if you. And of course, like, yeah, it's a bit of hurt money for season one, right? I get that you've got an acute problem. You need additional support and help one up. We, we support, you know, loyalty or commitment financially over time. But me, sure. No, like, even if you. I mean, we would love to do a long journey with you, bro, but even if you. You're in here till you're 33, man, that's gonna set you up for life, mate. Like me, it's just like, it's. It's incredible and, but, but also it's. It's rightfully so. Oh, mate, I Was super stubborn and arrogant as well. And I think, I think for young men, I think that arrogance, I actually think that's a real primal driver. I don't think it's the, the man's fault, per se. I mean, are they all different personality types? Of course there are, you know, but, but yeah, man, like I, I see it as. When it came through for me, anyway, can't speak on behalf of everyone, but for me, it was as I moved through puberty, there were these unlocks, like taking high level risks, which men absolutely do. As a young man, it's almost like that, the arrogance. You got to back yourself. It's like you get this massive, obviously testosterone, this massive rocket fuel. Go out and survive. That's what I mean by problem with drivers, okay? You've got to kill. You've got to kill the saber tooth tigers or fight the fucking mammoths or the elephants, and you've got to breed, you've got to fight other tribesmen and you've got to build your family and there's always a risk. So I think it's just a real part of being a young man to be able to channel that and convert that into a different powerful word in Mal's ways and use it as fuel. That's awesome, man, because I guarantee you right now, talking even to Jeff, Scotty or even myself at 40, especially male, like, they all say the same thing, mate, I wish I had HBF when I just got married or I was in my 20s or early 30s or, you know, it's, yeah, absolutely, like huddles. Like, mate, when I was, when I was Val. Hunting. Hunting and slaying vampires in the 1500s, mate, I wish I had a HPFL to support me on those tough days of killing ghouls and. But back to a serious note, like, man, it's so, it's so special to hear that from you, Sean, because it fucking matters, man. Like, it doesn't matter what generation we are. Like, you're the backbone of future. Callum said this in another episode, how you view growth changes as you get older. So that's the funniest part with someone like you, Sean. Like, you don't need hpf. And truth be told, like, none of you do. Like, no one needs, quote, unquote, hpf, but you choose it. And what you spoke about then, that desire for more, it's such a blind spot. Unknown possibilities. Like, that's. That's pretty awesome, man. But that's why it's a hard thing for a man, especially young men, to grasp because like, oh, what, what don't I see? Right out of mind, out of sight, all that sort of stuff. Whereas what's driving you is Al, there's a possibility out there for that next unlock. Don't know what it is, it's unknown. But I fucking want to find out, man. Like Sean, I gotta tell you, mate, that is what, that is what has led to HPE being where it is today. I didn't have the answers. No way. Eight years ago, no way, mate. I was just trying to save my marriage and going through the next round of ivf. Have another child. Probably wasn't smart having another child while you're still in turmoil with your marriage. You know, maybe we thought it would fix it. That certainly wasn't the driver. But like, shit, man, the unknown possibilities is such a powerful thing because those possibilities become real. It's a beautiful share, man. Thank you, mate. That's, yeah, very, very deep, man. Very deep and insightful. Scotty, how about you, man? What drives? What's driving you? And I guess, yeah, purpose, but more so, yeah, just piggybacking off Mel and Sean's shares. What's driving you and why you're here.

Yeah, beautiful share that. Joining, obviously, those three ingredients you talked about there, impact, purpose, meaning behind creating the best version of yourself. We hear about it so frequently. You know, it's not just the HPF podcast here come at you. It's every other podcaster out there pushing, pushing the idea of going hard in the gym, you know, building that, that routine, building the well being, becoming the best, better version of yourself. We're exposed to it everywhere these days and I think with AI coming along, we're just going to continue seeing, seeing more and more of that popping up, more algorithms written to our, to our sort of psyche to chase that. So it's really about, yeah, pulling it apart. And for me, impact comes back to who will benefit from my actions. It's often a point of deepening my clarity. Behind my overall purpose is looking at how my actions are going to impact those that I love and care about, particularly my children, particularly that generation, their friends, their parents, the teaching community, the wider school community, the sports communities. I'm jumping on the front foot with things now where I used to sit back and I'd watch other, you know, other men, not necessarily raising my children, but being a much larger presence within their lives. And so that's me now. I'm the one being the cricket coach for my son, getting my daughter involved, and even just those little moments, you know, building A young man into a gentleman, as Chris likes to describe in his journey. And it starts so early. It starts with those little conversations, those little redirections. So every day there's an opportunity for that impact. And not just building the best version of myself, but building the best version of others around me as well. The purpose for me, the big, big wake up call was not having enough purpose and not having, not being a, I guess a goal setting individual at the time I came in. So a big question around not falling too short or shooting too low. And it goes back to that question I had before about mediocrity knowing nothing higher than itself. We can't sit on the outside and just pick up the book and flick through it and say, hey, presto, you know, this is going to be a transformational year for me. I'm jumping on the front foot in 2026, New Year's Eve, here we go. If we haven't set the wheels in motion, we haven't set the structure, the routine to become that better version of ourself, we're going to fall flat on our feet. And so much of what's offered within here that there's little snippets that come along like the four months that it takes for alcohol to fully be pulled out of your system from a cellular level. And it is, you get that transition period where one month, I can do it dry July, you know, 2026, here we come. I'm going to go a month without, without the influence of alcohol and each their own, everyone is in a different state and different environment. You know, if you, if you make your own, make your own wine, you're in a, probably a pretty, pretty hard position to give it up. But there's a, there's a choice there for us all and to I guess hand over the reins, hand over the controls to the broader system around us and to say, look, you know, I'm allowed to give in each night, each weekend to the fundamental forces at will out there, to advertising, to slogans, to the. I really don't. You know, it triggers me every time using the word culture when we talk about Australians and drinking. I think that's a really low way to look at it. It's something that's ingrained, definitely, but I don't think it creates a culture, so to speak, the way the culture really should be represented. So for me, something like, so impactful, like giving up alcohol. You know, it's been, I needed a symbolic day back in, back in September 2024 to change my story. And I chose that. I chose a hard stop and have a look back. And that's been a fundamental building block, ingredient behind my growth from that point and something that I'm constantly challenged by because I'm in that environment. I'm in a transitional work environment surrounded by. By new people that are getting on the beers every afternoon after work. That hard day work sure to know all about it, pushing the boundaries in terms of that physical exertion. And then you feel like you need it in the evening, but what is that costing that next version of you and then meeting? Obviously, the true sense of meaning is how much you take the time to really think into it. So having the resources at Cosby was just next level in terms of how we were able to transition through our ideas across family, self and service, and to build this new version of ourselves. It took that reflection, it took the idea of journaling, it took that collective thought to be able to get to the point of saying, well, this is what's going to create meaning for me and what's the meaning that I'm going to leave behind, like Mel referred to with his word and legacy. This year we come back to some of the stuff, some of the just absolute golden wisdom that guys like Aiden Charles have left us over the years. And the memento mori, this idea that it's not infinite. We get one shot. So what are you going to do with that shot? What are you going to do with that capacity? So the tag online is many mountains, one lifetime. And this period after Cosi, I searched for something more. I searched for a greater meaning. I knew I needed to search further beyond there, so I went out and tackled a few Indonesian volcanoes and pushed the body, pushed the mind, pushed everything to limit and, yeah, walked away with such a renewed clarity. And that's something I'm not going to get by just sitting on the outside and watching life go by. It's something that is constantly being driven within here. It's not just a token saying of be the best version of yourself, it's how do we actually unwrap that? How do we pull it apart for each member, keep each other accountable and drive that growth each and every year. So, yeah, that's it for me in that topic.

Powerful drivers meant understanding the value and the concept of time, experiences you can create that are cherished by yourself and loved ones and also having a mission and purpose that's bigger than yourself. That's certainly a big thing for me, man. Like, if you have a mission that's bigger than a man. And a man can provide for his family and connect and cuddle and kiss. But a mission that's so much bigger than. Than yourself. And it's. Then. Then by default, life is demanding the best of you. What. What a pull. Instead of feeling like you have to push, you know?

Yeah.

Beautiful men.

Jeff.

Row. How about you, mate? And then we'll do. And then we'll do it. This has been an incredible. This has been way better than the session I did with the Titans. Way better. It's a. Do the guys still listen to these podcasts? Do they? I'm just curious. I'm gonna get stabbed. I'm just kidding. It's jokes. Oh, man. If you guys are new to HPF and this is your first podcast, you got to go back through the last 10 or so. There's been some epic. What do you call this? A panel, I guess. Epic. But geez, boys, this is definitely one for the ages. Loving it. So, so powerful. I've got three pages of notes here. How awesome. Jeff. How about you, man? Drivers in life. And then we'll do it. We'll do a rap, boys. And final thoughts and.

And.

And key takeaways. Yeah,

look, from a. From a selfish point of view, for. For me, like, what keeps me going in this space is that I touched on it right at the very start. Was that accountability. It was. It was that towards. I've always been one that seeks growth, and in order to. To obtain that growth, you need the right people around you to do that. You need the right. You're not going to get it. You are. You know, it's what we. I was told as a kid is like, you become who you surround yourself with, you know, and if you're coming into a group like this, you. It's really, really hard not to win. Like, you've got people pulling you up, you know, you've got Scotty with these rocks, like, dragging you up through the. Through the mountains, you know, like, it's. It's you. It's. As long as you put in the work on yourself, you're going to win, you know? And for me, for my. What keeps me going is the standards that I hold for myself now and what I live by and what I live to. Like, there's no way I would ever turn around and go back on that. It's seeing how I was versus how I am now and what I almost know. I'm not sure what I'm capable of, but I'm keen to see what it is because it really comes down to My why is I want to, you know, impact the lives as many other people as I can as well. That's all. That's been a big thing for me. I've always loved helping people. I've always, you know, I've, I have, you know, mates outside HPF that call me and we have chats about things and you know, it's, you can, you know, you can offer them a little bits, advice and that sort of stuff, but really once you're in a group like this where everyone builds each other up and everyone you know will call you out if you, if something is, you're not doing something, you know, that's going to serve you or that's actually pulling you down without you even realizing, then that's, you know, why, why would you not want to be in this space? And that's something for me where I'm like, that's. I always want that accountability because I want that constant growth. I want to drive the mindset of strength and resilience and, you know, the standards through my kids and through everyone else that I work with because I want to improve the lives of others. You know, I coach youth sports as well. And you know, I've got a real challenging year coming up because we've got a young kid whose mother just passed away before Christmas in an accident. And I, he doesn't have a strong male role model and I'm about to step into that space and see if I can do that for him. And it's, that's one thing that really, I guess I'm keen to see how I can help impact that young boy's life because he's 12, you know, and that's, that's hard for some people. You know, like, I couldn't imagine going through life with that space. So, you know, from what we touched, what Mal touched on before with Legacy, and it's just the impact, you have no idea the impact you can have on other people's lives by the things, the actions that you do. And I learned that before HPF with all the work that I did in suicide prevention and whatnot. Like I, you know, and you just hear, people would just come up and they would tell you about stories and I might have said something and it actually helped them and they were able to find a path through that space. But when you come into a group where you have the support and you, whenever you're feeling down, whenever you're struggling or, you know, something knocks you back down because it's not a straight line journey, this space like, like you said, there's friction, there's heat that people, you know, you're gonna, you're going through the wars personally, and then you still gotta go through all this to actually grow to be where you need to be. But there is no other space worth that challenge and the success and the reward that comes after that. I think personally, that you just never look back. And so that's pretty much what everything in this HBF brotherhood means to me is that I know that I've got, I've got boys in here that are just going to have my back or, you know, pull me out of a rut if I'm in one that I can call on anyone, anytime. And it's, I don't, I don't know about you boys, but I'm fucking excited about the future and what I can, you know, what impact I can have on others, whether it be other men in this group into my workspace, kids that I'm coaching or whatever. That is what my sort of true legacy is. And you know how I can help build them up so they can be a hundred to be a hundred.

Jesus has been a power packed episode, man. That's. Yeah, that's a phenomenal share, Jeff. I actually got a quick shot of anxiety of like fuck me. Did I actually press record on this? I was a bit worried. I was like man, this stuff is absolutely gold, man. Like, it's just. Are you spot on, mate? Like, what keeps me going, man? Like three pages of notes on one podcast which is all inspired by, by human both on this session today and the, and the men who want to be more and the men who are inside already on the community mates. So awesome man. So awesome impact as many people as possible. Like that's a. And I'm very aligned with you on that too, Jeff. I think you may have a lot of. Of similarities maybe some, some characters characteristics we. We had as children. I think man. I think there's, there's some real common thread with you and I on, on the giving and I'm a massive banner at heart and not that you are now, but we're both chiefs but it's like man, just that that willingness and desire to have impact and with as many people as possible and it's. No, I love it, man. Huge respect to all of your answers and I hope you guys have, have really found a lot of inspiration out of this, out of this episode. You know, as, as we wrap up we talk about rocks and carrying weight and even cozy a bit and I mean on that Note, old Mark McNee. Gary, what do you have? He had like seven, eight plates with all these extra gear is probably about 45 kilos up the mountain. When I saw him up there and he told me, I said, well, why'd you stop, mate? You didn't get the 50 and get the half century. But no, I didn't say. That is insane, mate. Carrying nearly 50 kilos me, that's, you know, power of the tribe. One plate at a time. And he handed the ball back because we, we all have. I don't like the word burden. I don't like suffering, that sort of stuff. We all have. We all have our, our path, man. But being able to carry the load and the weight physically, mentally, even emotionally or spiritually with and for each other through pockets of decline is why we all end up at the top. I completely agree that, yeah, that one line you said, Jeff, Pretty, pretty hard not to win, you know, when you're in here and you're immersing and invested. As we wrap up, gents, I'd love to finish with. Yeah, final thoughts, tips or advice for our listeners out there today, starting with going from the wisest and work backwards. I'm just kidding. We'll start with you, Mel, and we'd love. Yeah, just final thoughts, tips, shares as we wrap this up. It's been an incredible episode. Thank you, man, for giving the time. But, yeah, final tips, shares, thoughts for our listeners, mate. Would love some finishing points from each of you.

Yeah, it has been amazing, Al. I've really enjoyed it. For me, it brings out what's important in life. If I think about the diversity just in this group of people, where do you. You bring strength in, whether it's your business, whether it's your relationships, it's about that, having diversity, having being able to seek different perspectives, understand different perspectives and get that collective back together. And I think that's what makes this brotherhood so, so good because people can, you know, pick you up on things that you just don't know. You know, we don't all know everything. So it's about, you know, having that. Having that collective thinking without group think. You know, you don't want group think, everyone thinking the same. You want that diversity. You want that challenge from others. So I find that so, so powerful. So this session today, like, we're all different. You know, we've gone through that. We're all different people in different parts of life and all of that, but we've all got something to add to everybody else, which, you know, once again I go back to Cosi. You know, all those people I talked to, they all added to my life and they all added something for me that I came home with such a better attitude about myself, about my service, about my family, about my relationship and yeah, just how to go forward. So that's the powerful thing for me. And that's the powerful thing about hbf. It's not just Alex, it's the whole brotherhood and it's so, so powerful. So, yeah. Thank you, gentlemen. Really enjoyed it and, and I love your work.

Amazing. Thank you, Mel. Sean, any final thoughts or even tips or advice for some of the guys listening today?

Yeah, I've got a couple of like little key points. Like I'm just going to start again. Back. You're just a night routine. Tea May. I know, tech time, breath work, set an alarm, get the up. You know, it's pretty simple shit. You know, don't feel bad for letting people go that serve no purpose in your life. You know, don't feel bad for it because honestly, they're just you. We get time and we don't get it back. So don't waste your time on that shit because you've got other shit to do. Remember, you know, when you say yes to something, you're also saying no to something else. So pick wisely, you know, like to what you're going to say yes to. Make sure that you know that you're going to say no to something else. You can't do them both at the same time. Doesn't always work. Cut the bullshit all together. Yeah. And one thing is, don't forget to zoom out on yourself. Picture where you were. Look back. Even if you feel like you're just doing. You're not going as well as you thought. Zoom back out. Just pull yourself out. Bird's eye view of where you were two weeks ago, one week ago, three, six, 12 months, whatever it may be. And just see the progress that you are making because there is some. If you do stick to something, you know, and it may not be as fast as you want and that's fine. There's not a. It's not a rat race, you know, I mean like. And that's half the problem. We're all. We're in a world that is. Everything's a race so freaking ridiculous that, you know, everyone goes at their own speed. Just take your time, do small wins. And they do. It's a snowball effect. It's snowball effect. Can work both ways. You want to eat, do and just not do that. It Will snowball affect your life going down spiral very fast. And I've watched witness on both, both aspects. Go and take that to another level where you want to do the right things, have routine sets and do all that stuff. Your life will go turn around so fast that you won't even know what happened. You'll go, holy shit. You know, you know all your affirmations, all your goal setting right on down. Get that, you know, along the way. And you know, if you're sitting on the fence, whether you should do it or you shouldn't, you have nothing to lose by jumping the fence at all. You have nothing to lose. Like, what do you do? You try it and you think you don't succeed because there's not a freaking time ever that I've been inside HPF that I thought a catch up was, that was oh, you know, or that workout was, or you know, that meditation was or whatever. There was not a single thing that has that I thought to take that would somewhat better my life and come out of it and gone. That was shit. But beforehand, go and drink some alcohol, go and smoke a cigarette, go and do eat food and how many times are you eating McDonald's and you're going off, you're so after that or, you know, you've had a big night out on the town or whatever, and you go, I wish I didn't do that. I feel like not a single time, if you have gone for a workout, you might feel sick. You know, you work so hard and you get that wheezy gut. But once that's all calmed down, you go, I feel good hydration, you know, so realistically, yeah, just trying to keep it short and sharp. But for anyone listening, that's just it all in a nutshell.

Bang on, love it, man. And yeah, there's two things, right. There's the price, sure, yeah, we will invest goods and services, exchange of value and whatnot. But then there's the cost and the cost if you don't. So it's monstrous for most. Even if it's not divorce, it's the what ifs. Who could I become? I got stuck at version one. That's. You can't get that back, man, when you're even 60, let alone 70, 80 on your deathbed, or even 80 on your deathbed, let alone when you're 70, 60 or 50, I should say. You know how simple our guarantees, like, you follow through on this and you don't get one positive fucking outcome, mate. Sweet. Take all your fucking money back, you've Just got access to everything, got all, got all the goods and haven't paid a cent. Some people might look at that and go, that's a loaded guarantee, mate. It's not one positive thing. Of course I'll get something positive. Well, not necessarily true. I mean, there's plenty, plenty of services out there that would give a fucking horrific outcome and result that would make things way worse. But that's how much we back ourselves and, and, and how simple really, our guarantees. Because like Jeff said, mate, you can't not fucking win. Like, it's like when you're talking about nothing to lose and whatnot. When it's, it's. As men, we gamble in life and we take. And like that's what life is, is calculated risks. Like, the risk is nil when it comes to personal development. And that's the ironic part. It's like it takes time and thinking and all this hesitation and fence sitting to weigh up something that's going to enrich your life like you couldn't believe. With more than enough social and proof points now with HPF into its eighth season. But then on the flip side, we spent 6, 8, 12, 15 years debating and what you could or should do when you do fucking nothing. The old I need to ask my wife for permission. Did you ask your wife for permission to behave the way that you fucking did for the last decade, which led to everything being destroyed? That one always cracks me up. Not that I would use that because it's not about rebuttal. We don't want those men in hpf. We want the men who step up and take, lead themselves and move forward. We don't pull you into hpf. You step forward into hpf. Beloved Shawno, brilliant man and super proud of your efforts so far. Let's keep rocking. Scotty, final thoughts, advice or tips, mate? And then, Jeff, we'll wrap this up.

Yeah, I think a lot of this has been obviously stated before, but you know that big one on imposter syndrome, feeling like you don't belong, like you are already walking a different path. It's all just labels at the end of the day. And sometimes the most successful people, the people with the greatest, I guess our perceived idea of wealth are living a life where they probably have just as many regrets and just as many questions on where they should have taken a change, taken another path as any one of us. So, yeah, dropping that comparison is a huge one. So moving through that imposter syndrome, questioning the habits. So what habits do I have now which are transmutating into this negative aura about me, this negative energy which might be holding me back. It's very difficult to see. I've used analogies like being stuck in a smoke cloud in the past and, and finding a way to rise up, finding a way to ascend up a nearby mountain or something to gain a better clarity of where you are. I don't think there's any other possible ways that you can get such an immediate return on investment there, like hbf, where you are surrounded by men who have been in that environment, they've been up the mountain, they're flying over it, they're, you know, they're dropping the tanks on the fire. The, the ability to zoom out and have a perspective change because effectively there is no, there's no regret when you reach that point of clarity where you can start awakening your true growth. And then when that really starts to become a part of your life just leaves everything for dead. And you know, like Sean mentioned cutting that dead wood, it's, it's not necessarily that you're, that you're cutting them, it's just that nothing can. Nothing keep up. Nothing can. Can hold up to that new trajectory that you're on. So really question, you know, the, that those little things that you're holding onto, the whys, you know, the might be the Australian dream that I'm holding on to. Right. You know, what is it about all that time and effort that I, that I spent, and I was one of them, spent a, a crazy amount of time, money, effort into, you know, renovating my, my home in, into a, a place that would be, you know, would be perfect for my, for my kids, for raising my kids, for, for growing the family and, and now I look back on it and I think, you know, how did that actually serve me? How did that time and investment into those tasks really serve me and my family? And I look at the choices that I'll be making now in 12 months time, in 5 years time, and there's just no comparison. The real authentic awakening to life, awakening to the broader world around us, not just for us, but for our children as well and our families is just. Yeah. Unheralded anywhere else. So, yeah, love, love the, love the chat here and, and love the energy. All the, all the panel podcasts have been just sensational. So huge shout out to all the other men, including the Titans. I should add that they had a pretty, they had a pretty good one as well. But yeah, and obviously a huge thanks to Alex and the coaches instrumental for getting me to this point and Seeing outside of my own cloud.

Well spoken, Scotty. Well said, man. Jeffro, final thoughts.

One thing to remember for all of us that are in here now, when we came into this, we were all lowest of the low. We were all struggling. And it takes. And it's important for everyone to remember that actually takes courage to admit when you're struggling and to actually do something about it. Then sometimes can feel really difficult to actually take that first step and actually do something about it when you're struggling that much. But that's the most important thing you can do with it, is that moment is like when you actually take that opportunity to actually step into a space and challenge yourself and learn and grow about you and really in depth, understand who you are, and then you can actually grow through that. All you have to do is the work from that point. Like, it's like you can either choose to put your head in the sand and do nothing and then watch that snowball effect keep going. Like Seanie said, like, it's. It's one way or the other. Like I said before, it's the momentum that grows with every little detail and every little step that you take through this process. When you do the work and when I say do the work, it's just chipping away at the little things to improve. And then over time, like I said, it's amazing how quickly life turns around and how good it can be. And I sort of challenge everyone in understanding how good do you want your life to be in that sense? It's a matter of actually going. And, you know, if you. If you're questioning the value or financial value or something, it's like, it's always what you put into it is what the value is. If you're gonna just pay for something and hope it just works, that's not how life works. You've always got to put the effort into it, you know, so it's. We all, I think Alex always says, like, we all tell ourselves stories, whether we're arrogant or proud or we don't win, you know, trying to hide from something and whatever it is, but having that courage to just sort of in that moment, just, you know, admit, you know, you're struggling or there's, you know, it's not right or you want to improve. That's that moment where you just take that opportunity and you move forward with it.

Yeah. Love it. Jeff, I think. I think it's Brian Tracy, I think is his name. Very old school motivational speaker, mindset guy, all that sort of stuff. Sort of like The Jim Rohn type stuff. And remember him talking Jeff about, or for all you boys about. It's. It's that moment when you know, the life, the adverse, the adversities are coming in by the truckloads, mate, and you're just down and out and, and, yeah, and everyone's version of down and out stiffened, right? My version of someone's version down now can be. I've been super successful 15 years and I'm stagnant and I feel like I'm drifting and I've got no purpose, you know, like, it all varies. However, the principles are the same. When you're in that bottom or you've bottomed out, or rock bottom or in the pit, however you want to call it, it's at that moment when you say to yourself, I'm going to become like this. This still won't stop me. And I want to be. And it's like a, like a character trait. I'm going to become unstoppable. I will not fucking stop. Like unstoppable. I just love that word, you know, And I've shared that with you guys intimately. When HPF nearly died a few years ago, I was struggling. My health and well being, everything was cooked. I'm in the shower, just exhausted. It's like 1am, I can't breathe, my throat's closed up and I'm just smiling and laughing, going, is that all you got? I'll be back, you know. And that's credit to all of you men who, who like you men here and all of you men who have that mentality. But it's not battling through life, it's being unstoppable in the pursuit to be more. That's the difference, man. It's like, yeah, you are enough to become more. Otherwise the default is decay. You can't remain the same. It's impossible. You're either becoming more or becoming less so. I love that, Jeff. It's been a beautiful episode, boys. One of the most inspiring ones that I've been part of. And I thank you men for giving the time on here today. And I thank you guys for spending the time listening. Probably the longest session we've ever done too. I think it's been a couple hours. How awesome. Jesus went quick, but. But thank you, boys. It's one thing to talk the talk, but to be able to share what you've walked and what you continue to walk is truly something rare in today's world. A world that's all but cooked and rare with a collective of men that are not here with a front, a mask, pride or ego, but with a genuine nature towards their development, wellbeing and impact in this life and encouraging that in those around them. So huge respect to you, man. Thank you for joining us, boys. I really appreciate it. Thanks Mel, Jeff, Sean, O, Scotty. Hope you enjoy. Thanks Al.

Awesome session.

Thanks.

Thank you.

And Dame style. I want to put that in. Thanks to coach Harding too. Well, you know, he wouldn't, you know, he. He's really helped us all carry on the way we are. It's just the way he presents himself in every aspect of every phone call, you know, and just. And not that goes for all coaches too. And you, Alex. But you know, like as he's our Knight's coach and he gets us our phone calls and you know, I couldn't ask for a better coach.

Yeah, and rightfully so, man. No, look, all the coaches are fantastic, but boys, this is, this has never been about the Alice show. It's just reality in starting a movement that it started with one person. So I wore all the hats. But mate, that's never been my agenda, intent or desire. And it's. It's hard. You know, this, this is hard stuff, man. Like, we're building a movement, we're building a mission. Yes, there's lots of love and support, but it's challenging and demanding the best out of the members. Doesn't matter whether you pay money or not. Like it's demanding the best out of each other. That's the mission, that's the movement. So when you look at that, you would all understand that I'm not different people. But the intensity raises. So when you're a coach or on the inside or poor Adam the coo, I'm pretty intense because we need to become way more and way harder and push through so much more than what we. You know, I never demand more out of others than I demanded myself, right. Than what we provide in service to our members. So it's tough and been unfortunate that we've had two nights coaches previously that haven't quite been able to make it. So it's fucking hard work, man. Harding stepped in and inherited a squad of a hundred odd nights in. In HBF as members because we have our cohorts, right? You've got the big community that we've got five squads and, and not far off launching our six, which is exciting.

But.

But that, that's. That's hard, man. It's hard. You're stepping in, you. You're. You're analyzing the existing culture. You're building personal relationships, all that sort of stuff. So it's not blowing smoke up Harding's ass either. All the coaches have done a phenomenal job and continue to do so. But yeah, man, it's a well warranted shout out, Sean, because. Because he's that dude when we went to Perth and we did 10 pin bowling, he's like the Mitchell. He's like the Mitchell Johnson of bowling or something. Or the Brett Lee, man. That dude, he was launching the ball like 200km an hour. We thought the pins were going to break. But I not, not all the coaches have their own strengths, but geez, I've never met someone that's been as wide. Oh mate, the dude has so much energy, it's insane. Like Harding's. Yeah. Shout out to you man. Well done on, on you and all the knights in, in your squad who've cultivated a phenomenal culture. And, and as Ed said, we'll probably beat the Fire Breeders this year. But good on you, Sean. Good on you boys. Hope you guys enjoyed this. We'll see you on the next one. Cheers.

Hey, just quickly, if you're a father who really aligns with our message or potentially his wife because we have a lot of father's wives now listening to this phenomenal.

Love it.

Share it. There are people out there who are in pain. There are people out there hurting that you may intuitively know in, in your gut, in your instinct, yet you haven't shown them that there is a possibility and opportunity that they can create change through creating the right perceptions and the right influence with something like hpf.

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