302. Who's Doing It Tougher? Lael Stone on Marriage and Kids

Hey, real quick, enjoy the upcoming episode. If you haven't yet, give us a 5-star review. Jump on Amazon, iTunes, Spotify, anywhere where you're listening to this. Or you could alternatively look at Facebook, Instagram, other ways to promote your love and appreciation for HPF if you align with the message and you love what you see. Take care, have an amazing day, night, weekday, weekend, whenever you listen to this, and enjoy this upcoming episode because there's some absolute gold nuggets that you're going to take away. We are joined here with a special guest today. Welcome to another episode of High Performance Father, our podcast here. This, uh, woman has reached people globally Uh, and already done an event with HPF in the flesh and impacted just in the HPF community alone, as well as online, uh, hundreds of families and over 1,000 children just with HPF in the last 6 weeks. Lail Stone, great to have you here with us here today. Welcome.

Uh, thanks, Alex. I'm so happy to be with you.

Yeah, likewise. And I, you know, we've, we, uh, I'm really looking forward to the summit as well. That's going to be a blockbuster event, but I just wanted to read out just so I don't miss anything, but I'm sure there might be things you could add here. Uh, Australian speaker, educator, author, working for over 20 years, as well as starting as a doula, calm birth practitioner, postnatal trauma counselor. Uh, you've spent 8 years as an Aware Parenting instructor, co-hosted, uh, wow, over 100 episodes of the Aware Parenting Podcast. That documentary Seen is amazing. Uh, that was pretty heartfelt when you invited me to, to watch that. And I went through and shared that through the community as well. Um, you've also been on The Resilience Project, your book. which I have, Own Your Story, exploring, which has been a real big thing for me actually, Leo, looking at the, um, I guess the clash between, um, love and, um, discipline is probably the best word to use it with my upbringing, you know, and, uh, you know, with, with my, my father, there was, there was love, but being the hardheaded Italian, there was obviously, um, extremes of discipline too. Right. Uh, and, and that, that's incredible when you look at. How, how many people are unaware of, of the childhood experiences actually shaping who we are and, um, and, and how we not only react, but our belief systems. Um, but you also, what do you, you must have more than 24 hours in a day. You've got your own primary, primary education, um, school as well, which correct me if I'm wrong, it's in its 4th year. Uh, 6th year.

6th year right now. Sorry.

6th year. Yes. Wow. That's, that's awesome. Um, you have 3 children, married to Mike, just came from an overseas trip, which I'm keen to explore because I'm definitely gonna be learning from you because my kids are a lot younger and on what to expect. Uh, my children living overseas right now is, uh, is something that would be hard for me to embrace. But, um, I love your philosophy. Connection's always the answer. Uh, I'm sure I might've missed a few things out and I'm always conscious of that when I bring exceptional world-class people like yourself on here, because it's You know what, guys, it doesn't do it justice just reading a hit list of what you've done or achieved because that doesn't take into account the ripple effect of the thousands of families and probably even more, to be fair, that you've impacted. But hopefully I was close-ish to the mark. But what have you seen? Just first before we, because I'd love to dive into your story, but when we talk about impact and ripple effects, what are your observations in the line of work that you've done? And what have you seen throughout generations? Because you spent decades in the space now when it comes to parents and fathers, mothers, and families.

Yeah, thank you for that intro. Yeah, it is, it's always weird, isn't it? When someone reads out your bio because you're trying to, I've done this thing and this thing and that's impressive and that's impressive. But I always say, look, you know, no matter what I've studied, learned, achieved, without doubt, my biggest learning of my life has been trying to raise my kids consciously. Like I, you know, it's parenting for me that has been the great leveler. And, uh, I can have all the knowledge and all the expertise and yet still, get reactive and I'm still brought to my knees sometimes when things don't go the way I want. And, and even having adult kids now, like they're 26, 23, and 18, you know, there's, it's, it's not as much now, but there's still sometimes when I'm like, oh wow, there's a bit of reflection here to do, Lael. So, uh, thank you for reading out all those things. I feel blessed to have done all of those things in the world and, you know, and, and lots of other bits and pieces that we all do in there. But parenting by far has been probably my greatest grounding, that's for sure. And I think You know, what I do love about what I do, and I think it's such a privilege, is I get to meet a lot of people who then tell me the ripple effects of the work, whether they've heard me talk on a podcast or whether they've read my book or whether they've done a course with me. I mean, it's beautiful. Sometimes I'll meet people and they're like, oh, I did one of your courses. And I've had thousands of people go through. So I wish I could remember everybody. And I'm like, oh, when did you do it? And then I was like, and I often joke, I go, tell me your trauma. I remember trauma really well. I remember stories. I just don't remember names and faces. So tell me your trauma. And then they'll go, I was the person who was this, this. And I'll go, yes, I remember you. I feel really privileged that doing this work particularly is when you can help parents and you help them heal some of their stuff, you see then how they turn up for their kids. And then what I love seeing is the shift that that changes in generations of healing and then what is possible for the future. And I absolutely stand by the fact that if we wanna change the future and change the world like where we are right now, It starts in the family. It starts right at the very beginning with our relationships and when our babies come into the world and how we respond to them. That is how we're going to create a more harmonious, compassionate, peaceful world. It starts with the families for me.

Couldn't agree more. I mean, what a canvas and a gift, but also one of the hardest things we do as parents, raising children. But, uh, nothing for me personally anyway has brought up the mirror more than fatherhood, um, with respect to my marriage and my wife and myself, my own journey, but it's Yeah, it's certainly a baptism of fire because no matter what, what people tell you or educate, you just don't. And, and you guys listening to this, you just, you don't get it until you're in it, you know? And, um, but, but I agree, like that's, uh, and one of the key things that, uh, Marco said at our, our Men Who Rise, um, feature film, you know, with a little old wog lady said to him when he, he got married or wrote him a letter, you know, um, you know, if there's peace in the home, there's peace in the streets. If there's peace in the streets, there's peace in the suburbs. Peace in suburbs. peace in the nation. But, but that's like, that's one word, peace. But, but it's that ripple effect of, of what I consider HPF to be moving towards, you know, in leadership. We're not moving towards, but that's like what, what we're, we're known for, helping these fathers become better leaders, which comes with awareness, self-reflection, looking at your own patterns and, and those, uh, those, those deep-seated, um, traumas we might have or, or guilt or shame we hold onto or judgments and, um, you know, with our parents, of course, doing the best they can, but in today's day and age, should we just rely on that? We just did the best we can with what we had. Well, what did you have? And did you expand what you had through developing your education awareness with things like what you offer in your courses? And because we have that no matter what country you're in, in this world. So not, not that I'm a hard man, but it's hard to have an excuse today and not wanting to become more and develop. But, but walk us through, how did you get to be, I mean, I guess. Reversing back, like, how did you get to be where you are? Where you're like, this is, and I know you and I have spoken off air about other lines of work because there's some exceptional stuff you do in the relationship space as well. Um, with, with, with men and, and, and women and even with the individual inside of themselves. But how did you navigate towards, because it looks like obviously your, your, your, your gift is, is humans and people, but it's been channeled, um, you know, really, really successfully in the pairing space. But how did that come to be? I'd love to learn more about your story.

Thanks. Well, I think probably like a lot of people, sometimes you get called into this and you don't even realize why. So I was the kind of, you know, finished high school, went to like a, you know, pretty fancy private school. It was really academic. I wasn't academic. I was creative. I remember even at the time being at high school thinking, ah, this feels a bit like bullshit to me. Like, you know, there's got to be more out there in the world. And it was kind of drummed into you, you must go to university and all that kind of stuff. And I was like, yeah, I don't know about that. So when I finished school, I went traveling for 2 years. which was huge and hard. And, you know, you're, you're just so young and naive. And, you know, I was very lonely and had big life experiences, which taught me to grow up. And so then when I came home, you know, I was a bit of a lost 20-year-old. I started, you know, working in bars and pubs and doing all the things that you do and then stumbled across actually children's entertainment. And not everybody knows this about me. And I went and worked for this business where they used to do kids' birthday parties and stuff. And I remember working for them for a few months and just in my little entrepreneurial brain back then, I was like, I could be making 10 times the amount and doing it the way I wanted to do it. So this was when I was 20. I went and bought a mobile phone. This is when mobile phones were first coming out. That's how old I am. Got some business cards made, registered a business name, and started a business with no idea whatsoever. But just started advertising and all of a sudden started booking all these kids' parties. And then I got so busy, had to employ someone. And, you know, as a young, young woman, ended up having like 10 people working for me. Wow. And we'd put on big events and shows. And I love, I love that part of my life because it was all about just, you don't know any different. You don't know that you should be scared and you don't know that there's a right way to do it. You just do what you think. I love the naivety of being young. So I had that company for many years, you know, entertaining kids. It taught me a lot about children, which, you know, now comes into my work in big ways. It taught me how to be a public speaker because I used to have to walk into a space and know how to grab people's attention quickly. Taught me a lot about humans, about running businesses, all that kind of stuff. So I did all of that. And then, you know, my husband and I kind of ended up finding out we were pregnant when we were pretty young. So I had my first child at 25 and, you know, running this business, being a young mom, you know, floundering about. Those years were not easy because you really don't know anything. And really, I look back and think I was a child myself. Uh, but I had a challenging birth experience with my son and, um, I had quite a bit of trauma and, you know, it, it had a big impact on my entry into motherhood. So when I got pregnant second time around, I made some different choices. I got support in the ways I needed and I And I had this really amazing, beautiful birth experience with my second child. And something just unlocked in me that went, wow, this is what I want to do to help mothers particularly, but families have a really good experience into motherhood because I knew what it was to parent when you had trauma. And then I, and I got to experience what it was like to parent when you had this really positive, amazing experience. So I actually closed my children's entertainment company. I didn't sell it, didn't do anything. I was just like, okay, that's done. I've done that. And then I actually started working in birth. So I trained to become a childbirth educator and a doula. and started attending births. And then I think because, I don't know, I love people and I love their stories, I was really fascinated around the stories of couples coming together and navigating birth. And then beginning to see that there was a lot of birth trauma that happened in our birth system. And so I started to work with a lot of couples that had birth trauma. And then because I, you know, have a real passion for helping people understand more about themselves and the world, I, you know, with my birth partner at the time, Jules, we created one of the first online birth education programs in Australia. So this was way before online learning was a thing. Cost us so much money, I can't even tell you how hard it was to build it, uh, not with all the tools that we have now. And so we started to educate parents, we started to educate health practitioners, and I just wanted people to be more informed and have more education so they could have good positive experiences. So that came from my own lived experience of having trauma and wanting to do it differently. And then as my kids kind of grew, I, you know, found myself, you know, asking myself the question, how do I raise my kids as consciously as possible? And because I was kind of the first of all my friends to have kids, I didn't really have anyone in front of me showing me how to do it. So I felt a bit lost doing the whole thing. Uh, and so then I just wanted to learn again, and I'm a big fan of having mentors and people who've walked before you. So I just would want to learn from people or parents who I thought were really doing it well, you know, or who felt like they loved parenting or, or who were— had really connected relationships with their kids. So I did a whole lot of that. Then I had my third child. I had a big journey experience with her. And, um, and, you know, I ended up having PTSD from a big life or death experience of her journey, which then set me on another path of learning about trauma because I realized I had to really heal myself and help my baby heal from a big experience. So I dove into the world of learning all about trauma, about the nervous system, about how we heal. Uh, so I spent a lot of years doing that. I mean, really my kids have shaped my learning and my life, you know, my life experiences in me to keep learning and growing. And then, you know, as my kids grew, my son hit puberty. I remember again asking the question, oh my God, how do I prepare him to be a healthy, conscious man in the world who's not going to take advantage of women and who's going to be, you know, understanding consent and all of that kind of stuff? I was really like, have we done enough? Like, how do I make sure my son, you know, is a beautiful, healthy young man? So then I dove into the world of, um, you know, sex education and, and well-being and understanding how we help teenagers, you know, with the information they need. So then I spent 5 years teaching sex ed in secondary schools to kids. Um, I'm a big fan of if there's— if you see a hole, go jump in and figure out how to do it, you know. So I did that for many years. And then, um, you know, again, I followed my kids through puberty, through teenage years, learning, growing, resourcing myself, learning from people who'd come before me. And then that path kind of, after I'd done that for a long time, the opportunity came up to build a school, uh, with, with Mel, my partner, who just, you know, came to me saying, hey, I just, this education system doesn't feel good. How do we create something that really takes into account trauma-informed practices, emotional awareness, teaching kids things they need to learn for the world, keeping them connected to their bodies and the earth and all that kind of stuff. And so that's when we created Woodline. So again, I think all the paths that have kind of been in front of me have all been from my own lived experience or wanting to make a difference in my own family. You know, I'm a big fan of learning, continuously learning and learning from others. So then after creating Woodline, I learned a lot about education and the education system and started, you know, doing more with that. Then I wrote 2 books in that time. And then, you know, these days as my kids are adults, uh, you know, my work now focuses more on helping adults understand themselves so they can be better humans in the world, whether that's in the workplace, whether that is in their relationship, whether that is with parenting. So, you know, I don't know what's next for me. I I reckon maybe I'll work with the elderly and death or something, because I feel like I started at birth and we'll work all the way through. So I feel so lucky to do what I do. I feel like so much of my learning has come from me wanting to be a better human and then wanting to help others. And yeah, I feel very blessed that from starting that first business when I was 20, you know, I've run my own businesses for a long time and grown and learned and been able to create lots of products and help others.

It's, uh, yeah, bless my kids, they've stolen all my pens again. I was trying to make some notes while you're, um, shedding light on a wide range of, of, of experience because, uh, what I'd love to know is, because that's incredible, is what, what's the common— so you've got children in probably what they would feel being their natural environment, parties, right? So you would have observed and seen some of the, the wild things that, uh, parents can't contain even if they try and make their kids good. quote unquote, and well-behaved in public, uh, all the way through to observing the possibly first or second or third time parents through what can be a traumatic but also beautiful experience in birth and post-birth and nurturing a child from the very early ages into how children adapt, learn, and grow into puberty. So that was a school one, um, and, and running a school into puberty and the hormonal changes. Yeah. What would you say? So that, that's Which obviously makes really good sense based on your ambition as well for, for growth and learning, uh, to, to why you're exceptional at what you do. Um, because that's, uh, I didn't, I, I started HPF because I had, uh, good principles around mindset and resilience and, uh, I knew fitness and I knew if you like, as, as a father, respectfully, like you could say you're the best dad in the world. I don't know, I'm exaggerating here, but if you're 180 kilos, sheer physiology, like sheer physics will say that's impossible.

Mm-hmm.

Because no man at 180 kilos has the capacity to be as good as he could be if he was 100 kilos, um, and carrying that excess. So, so that was like my thing. But then over time, like yourself, just experience diving in and figuring out the rest. So that's incredible, like, to see such a range of the, the human life. That's what it is. What's, what's, what's, what was— and maybe it's more than one, but what is that common thread or through line that you've seen or observed over decades with, with us as humans from, you know, Birth to yay high to adulthood.

I think the thing I always talk about or what I see is, and if you were to ask me what's the most important thing, I would say it's connection. It is that children, babies, teenagers, whoever feel connected to someone. It's that they feel like there is someone in their world who is delighted to see them, who accepts who they are, all of who they are. And And when we have connection in our world, we often can navigate all the hard challenges. So part of, I guess, also learning about things like trauma is that, and Dr. Gabor Maté, if you don't know of him, he's amazing, does some incredible work. He often talks about that trauma is not what happens to you, it's what happens inside of you from what happens to you. It's about what happens around it. Mm-hmm. You know, as humans, we can navigate some pretty crappy situations, but if we don't have the people, the support, the connection around us to process it, that's when it becomes a huge issue. And so I think that's what I've also seen is that, you know, babies being born can go through really tricky things, but when they're held, when there's love, connection, when there's all the spaces there to help them process it, then they can thrive. We see the same with toddlers. We see it with school-aged kids. You know, we can move through really hard stuff when connection is in place. And yet one of the hardest things for us to do as humans is connection. Because connection requires intimacy, it requires vulnerability, it requires us being at home with the array of feelings that we have, like the breadth of who we are as humans, which is the messy bits, the angry bits, the sad bits, the jealous bits, the happy bits, the funny bits, all those pieces. When we can be connected to those pieces within us, then it's easier for us to connect with others. Yet, and this is the yet, having heard thousands of people's stories and sat with so many people listening to their journey, not that many people got that. You know, most of us grew up, um, with a lack of deep connection and presence and attunement in our lives. Now, you know, you, we've talked about this before. This is no shade on our parents, our parents, our grandparents, our great-grandparents. We're a product of their time. They were doing the best they could with what they had, which I know is a big statement for people when you have had pain. And, you know, I always invite people to hold that piece tenderly and just be kind to yourself. I always say, don't believe anything I say. You are the authority on you. Take the bits that resonate and throw out the bits that you don't. But I guess what I often come back to seeing is that when we weren't attuned to, when we didn't have that connection in place, when we weren't able to be met in the fullness of who we are, then we create a story around that. And then we grow up with a belief system of I'm not enough, or I'm only lovable when I'm achieving, or I need to be in control to make sure everything's going to be okay in my world, or all the stories that we tell around that. And for me, I think it comes back to those deep fundamental needs of humans, which is being attached and attuned to someone who sees us and says, you are enough just as you are. There is nothing you need to do to work for my love. There is nothing you need to do or be in order to know that you're not enough just the way you are. Because that's how we're born. We're all born enough. We are born as babies, beautiful and perfect just the way we are. I often joke and say, no parent holds their baby for the first time and looks them in the eye and thinks, I don't know if you're enough. We don't. We look at our kids and we're like, oh my God, this is a miracle. This is amazing. And then society, life, programming, conditioning, all that kind of stuff kind of tells us a different story. And I find most of our adulthood is undoing that and finding our way back to ourselves, to our enoughness.

It's, um, And look, it's a fair point on the, oh, and couldn't agree more, but I'm very curious on, I guess, the difference between men and women in the blockages and the processing. So I'm sure you've noticed those patterns, but, uh, the older generation, they may not have had the competition that we have today, you know, with technology and all these different things vying for our children's attention and belief systems and all that. But at the same time, Yeah, they didn't have the access that we have today either. Like, where would you— I look back, oh boy, like he's, you know, he came over on the boat from Italy. Like, where would he start?

Like,

yeah. And I love like Hold On to Your Kids, which is the book I have of Marte, and I'm sure he's done a lot more. But, um, yeah, like none of that even would have existed or been accessible.

Yeah.

Back then, you know. But, um, are the blockages though, and the way that we process things, what you've seen, is that different for men and women? Because that's, that's what it sounds like. We have these blockages that we obviously struggle to clear or don't even acknowledge that they're there, which means they can't even start to try the process. But have you, have you found that they, the way that that is processed so people can move forward, is it different for men versus women? And I know you've worked with a lot of women, but most recently a lot of the HPF men, like, yeah, what are your thoughts on, on that? And are there patterns or things that you've seen in the men of HPF, even with the stuff we do, like, or in men in general, like, that What, where are they stuck? You know, I guess in, in, uh, in their journey of trying to, you know, become more for themselves, but also their families.

Yeah, it's, it's a really good, um, good question. Um, look, classically what I see with women is part of what their biggest undoing is relinquishing the good girl, which is the imprint that basically said in order to be lovable, you just need to be compliant and good. So for many young, many girls when they're little, it's like a good girl. So don't get angry, don't get upset, and take care of everyone else. And so what I find with women, a lot of what they do in adulthood is learning to have self-care. It's learning to actually put their needs first. It's also learning to have boundaries and actually know that you don't have to carry everyone else's burden. So women are classically, you know, we've got that nurturing hormone, we've got that oxytocin, we've got all that caregiving stuff, which is important and beautiful. But often, and this is what we learn through generations, it's at the cost of ourselves. And that actually doesn't serve anyone. We know we can't give from an empty cup, right? That applies to men and women, but women are exceptionally good at putting their needs down the line because we've been sold a story that says to be a good mother means you must sacrifice yourself. You eat last, you give to everybody. Look how, gosh, she's so good. She's really sick and yet she still made 60 muffins for the cake stall. Like, no, that's not good, right? Why is she sick and what does she need? So that's a big undoing, what I see. With men, I find it is more about, I'm only enough if I'm achieving. So if I'm looking a certain way, I'm making this amount of money, I'm providing in a way that looks good, that is my measure of worth. And that can often come again from the imprints they receive of, this is what a man should look like. And I know this is stuff that you cover a lot of, Alex, is, you know, a man is being the leader and, you know, being strong at all costs and, and providing and all that kind of stuff. And the challenges I find for a lot of men is, uh, the ability to be vulnerable. Is to apologize. It's a big one. To actually know that feelings are okay. To not project those fears of, if my child is acting out, then there's something wrong with them and they're not going to be a successful human in the world, and then that's going to reflect badly on me. It's a big story that comes up for a lot, particularly around things like discipline, those kind of things. And actually, you know, I think for a lot of the men I've worked with as well, you know, the ability to be vulnerable and to be tender feels terrifying. Yeah. Because that was the message that they got when they were growing up is don't cry, don't be weak, don't be vulnerable. So girls heard don't be angry, right? And boys heard don't cry. Whereas boys were allowed to be angry. Well, that was kind of more acceptable, but you're not allowed to cry. Whereas girls weren't allowed to be angry. And then when girls get angry, they get called hysterical. Or they get, you know, like it's regardless of our gender, I think the messaging that we've received for a long time, which is because of the behaviorism paradigm we've grown up in, is be compliant, be good. And when you're good, we'll reward you. And when you're not, we'll turn away from you or we'll take something away from you. Now, if we want to raise a generation who just are compliant and do what we tell them to do and never question anything, then that modality works well, right? You threaten, you power over, you have control, and then usually children become fearful. And because our biggest survival instinct is attachment, we learn to do whatever we can to survive. Which means I must be good all the time. But then what happens is we lose our sense of self. And then what happens is we don't have boundaries. And then what happens is we believe our worth is based on what somebody else thinks of us. That's the biggest thing I see with men and women is that we reach a point where we won't take risks or we won't do the creative thing or we won't express ourselves because our sense of worth is from outside of us. You know, we believe we're enough when we make that money, when we buy the car, if people think we're good looking, if, um, you know, if they think we're great, like, you know, then, then I'm enough. Yet it's never ever going to be enough because it's external. The enoughness comes from an internal knowing of, you know, I am human and I am lovable. But a lot of that is patterning and conditioning that we have to undo. And again, I just want to say this. I say it all the time. We're a product of the time we've lived in. Yeah. You know, our parents were doing probably what was done to them. They don't know any different. And as you say, your dad would come over in the boat. He'd be like, what is this emotional intelligence bullshit? Right? Like, I get that. My parents are like, you know, my parents are a bit different. They're a bit more aware, but like, you know, I see it in many generations. They're like, in our day, blah, blah, blah. That, that's what they needed to do to survive at the time. And this is why I often say parents of this generation are really extraordinary. And, and it requires a lot of courage to be a parent these days because we are being asked to heal our stuff and to look at our stuff. in a way that has never been done before and then do it differently with our kids. And that requires a lot of courage and it's hard. And often because there's not evidence of what that looks like, that's where it feels really challenging.

Sounds like it's, um, so it sounds like it's exactly the same thing, but it's measured differently. You know, I've, uh, I'm typing notes now, but, uh, you gave me a great one-liner. This is what I love too. You know, I'm always in a, in a state of learning or if not, um, remembering what matters most and communicating it slightly differently. For a lot of you men, you'll resonate with this. Your value is only based on yesterday's scorecard.

Oh my God.

Because when you're saying that, I'm like, absolutely. And it's, but the thing is like, it's hard to assess because as a man, you want that as well, right? Like, I want my family to, you know, we, we spend a lot of money on good quality meat. So I feel good when I see my kids eating that. I'm like, I know that's good quality. That's, that's, that's great. Like, so that's the hard part. We attach to that provision, like for our families as, as, as men. And then the woman, it's like, yeah, you're only valuable based on how good you are for everyone else. Yeah.

And can I add something else to this? And this is what's interesting, which I've seen over many years of being in different parenting spaces. We make things mean what we make them mean. So in our mind, if you're like, right, good organic meat means I'm a good father. And someone else will be like, going to the best school means my children, you know, I've done a good job. Or, um, you know, we only play with wooden toys because, you know, that's, that's that, right? So we have all these external things that we think are measures of You know, I'm providing the best for my kids. But if you can't meet your children emotionally, I promise you, it doesn't matter what school you go to or what food you feed them. That matters more than anything. Because those external— yes, they have a place, right? We know health is important. We know environment's important. They have a place. But what I have learned over all these years, the most fundamental piece of helping us to raise healthy children into thriving adults— Mm-hmm. Is the connection and is our willingness to look at our own crap so we don't pass it on to our kids. So again, I've been in lots of different communities that are all like you know we do this and we only eat that and da da da and then then they're like shaming their kids right or then they're you know bribing them or yelling at them and I'm just like yeah you know what the food's only going to take you so far right or the toys are only going to take you so far or the school's only going to take you so far because the fundamental relationship as for us as humans is those is the parents we're and the the community. community around us that we're raised in. That is what sets up the imprints and the stories. Now that can feel like an enormous pressure. So like even if you're sitting here as a guy listening to this thinking, oh man, have I stuffed it up or it's not good. I just always want to say it's never too late. And it's also, there's no perfect. No one does this perfectly. That, you know, like I have all this information at my fingertips and I've learned a lot and I've still messed up so many times. So has my husband. But our ability to repair with our kids, our ability to reflect on it is the thing that actually holds us through. And that, that is, that is just fundamental.

Yeah. And you, and which is why, you know, like you can't, you can't give what you don't have. So the irony, the irony of looking at these external measures is one, it chips away at our own self-worth and value, but two, the core of that's actually driven from a very egocentric place. That's the craziest part. It's, I want to be important. I want to be powerful. I want to be seen and heard using external things to justify it, which is, which brings your own undoing that, um, What we talk about with, um, with communication, Lael, is listening, sure, um, talking, of course, but example. And that, that's what I mean, guys. Like, you can't— hard— well, hard— I can't say can't, but I don't want to say can't, but hard to give what you don't have. Yeah. So when it comes to understanding your own emotional patterns, trauma or not, like your, your, your own emotional patterns and what you've developed into a man throughout this life, um, with your parents, without your parents, adulthood— we've got men whose parents died when they were teenagers and they're So like you said, environment, yeah, that matters. Food, nutrition, all different things matter. But your, your, your sense of self and understanding that, I've found personally anyway, has absolutely been the first step. Uh, and it's led to things like, you know, not telling one of my daughters in front of the other 2 daughters that they're my favorite, even as a joke. Because they think that at the moment with little Florence, she gets, she gets the, the big thing. She looks at me and sees this, this, this large man who can Yeah. Making silly noises, looking at me going, what is this? And my other 2 daughters are watching going, hey, you never did that. And so I'm bringing up the phone going, I did. Look, that's me looking like a fool when you were a kid back in 2016, and that's 2019. And, but, but, um, but it's, it's so important what you said. I hope that's landing, guys, because you know what, that also actually— I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I want to dive into next, the, the path. Um, if I'm wrong, but that actually takes pressure off you and gives you control because it's not It's not even initially, it's not even about your kids. It's like, mate, start with yourself. You have full control over that, which means you can make progress and develop, and then you can expand into your children. So, so when I say that takes the pressure off, lads, that's what I mean, because there is absolutely every chance that you can do something about your situation no matter where it's at. Yeah. I feel like I'm a great father, but man, absolutely 4 kids. It's like, it does, the number doesn't matter. It's crazy at the moment with our household and I'm constantly tested.

Yeah.

And, uh, I've got a little trigger now, uh, which is, um, Uh, it's Finding Joy. I just write it to myself. It's actually a song. It's out of one of the kids' movies and it's just a piano tune and it just resets my state. Pull away a bit of that Viking high stress pressure business or bringing the hammer down. We've got 4 kids, Corinne's stressed. So what do I want? I want what you said, compliance, production, and outcomes. Not, hang on a minute. If dinner's 34 minutes instead of 13 minutes, Like, you know, so I'm, I'm always learning, remembering, reminding, but these patterns are like, what, what, how do we go though, Leah? Like, I'd love some advice. How do we go from first recognizing these patterns to secondly, then actually breaking them down and starting to create positive change?

Yeah. So I just to, before I get into that, I just really want to touch on something that you said really beautifully then. For me, you know, and again, for any guy listening to this going, oh God, where do I start? What do we do? One of the most important pieces is willingness, a willingness to go, you know what, I'm not loving how I'm turning up as a dad. I'm not loving how it feels at home, but I'm willing for this to change. I'm willing to learn. I'm willing to grow. One of the biggest obstacles I get in couples that come or come and do parenting stuff is sometimes, and I'll say a lot of it's mainly dads because women are usually the ones seeking it out, when the guy's not willing To change, 'cause he's just in there, there's nothing wrong, it's fine. Like, but people, they just need to listen to me. And it's very hard to work with someone who's not willing. And that, that requires us, and I get why we don't wanna do it. It requires us to be vulnerable again. It requires us to actually look at where we've come from. Now, this makes so much sense 'cause we're really clever as humans. We are always trying to keep ourselves safe, right? I always say we're always coming from protection. So when we look at why we don't wanna be willing or why do we don't wanna look at something, it makes a lot of sense because it requires us to look to the past. And if our past has been painful, if we didn't get what we want emotionally, if there was any form of abuse there, if there was neglect, all that kind of stuff, it makes a lot of sense why we go, you know what, I'm just going to turn the other way and I'm not going to go there. That's protection. It's protection. And I have no judgment around that because I believe as humans, we are always trying to keep ourselves safe. And sometimes in our minds, what safety looks like is I just won't look at that or I won't, I won't address And that's okay. Sometimes that works for a while, but then it usually ends up seeping out the sides because you have children and our kids are here to kind of mirror back to us the stuff that we haven't dealt with because they're kind of going, I don't want to carry your crap forward. And also I need you to be the best human of you, who you can be, because when you are being your best version of you, it models to me that I can be the best version of me.

Hmm.

And so our kids come along with the perfect barometer to know how to push our buttons. They are like, oh yeah, Dad, you got this one, this one, and this one. So I'm going to respond in these ways to activate that. Now, what do we do as a culture and a society? Because, you know, we haven't learned about emotional awareness, is we then make the kid wrong. And you just need to do this and you just need to do that instead of taking a moment and going, Jesus, I'm really reactive here. Or God, I really want to yell. Or wow, I'm feeling really frustrated. There's something being triggered in me. And that is the first step, the willingness to be able to look at it and go, yeah, there's something here, there's something needs to shift. So when we come back to that question of how do we identify those stories and imprints and how do we begin to change them? Well, the first simplest place is what pisses you off, right? What, what, where do you get fired up? Is it when your kids don't listen? Is it when your kid sticks his tongue out at you and says, you know, you're a poo head or whatever? Like, you know, I mean, I cannot tell you how many times dads have come to me and just go, man, I get fired up when my kid talks back me. It's a good reason why we get fired up. Is it, you know, when we feel like our partner's not listening? Is it like, I don't know, it's wherever you, wherever the point is where you all of a sudden start telling yourself a story of that person just needs to do this and they need to do that. I mean, I always look at it like this. As soon as we're pointing the finger at someone else and going, they just need to, then there is an invitation for us to go, what is going on for me here? So my kind of really simple steps is I say, The first step is always noticing that you're, you're, you're, you know, you're fired up, noticing that you're feeling triggered. And in those moments when we feel triggered, if we can, the best thing we can do is step away, take a step backwards, go into the bathroom, run your hands under some cold water, take a breath, ground yourself. I know we can't always do that sometimes, especially when you've got kids and they're in your face, it's hard. And especially if our nervous system is a stress nervous system, we're going to go to 0 to 100 quickly. We fire up. And it makes, again, a lot of sense why we do that because we're looking for a way to discharge the uncomfortable feeling in our body. And how's the easiest way to do that? Is to yell, right? And somehow it feels a bit empowering. We don't love it, and then we feel guilty, and then the whole cycle continues. So the goal is to identify and to even just say, I feel angry right now, or I'm feeling really triggered. Like, and you can just say that out loud, which basically just says, here's my state. I'm identifying that I feel something. And what that does, it's a first step towards, oof, there's something here for Then ideally, when we deal with whatever's in front of us, we try and find a little bit more calm. You know, my next step is always this: what am I feeling? Not what the other person's doing. What am I feeling? So it might be I'm feeling frustrated. It might be I'm feeling disempowered. I'm feeling powerless. I'm feeling jealous. I'm feeling angry. I'm feeling— but we just wanna identify what am I feeling in my body? What am I making this mean, this feeling at the moment? Now that's where we begin to start with going, right, I'm feeling really powerless right now. And of course I feel powerless when my 4-year-old won't get in the bath or brush their teeth, or my 15-year-old says, nah, I'm not listening to you, or whatever. Absolutely can tap us into our powerlessness. And so that reaction, that powerlessness is a normal reaction to feeling, you know, in that situation. It's not wrong. It's just, it's information that's saying, this is where I'm at. And then what do we do from there? Well, we identify that's how I'm feeling. And then the questions I usually ask myself are these. The first question is, Is this just a reaction to me not getting my needs met right now? So we all know this. We all know that we can be a really good parent when we've had enough sleep, we're not worried about money, you know, maybe we've done a workout, you know, we're, you know, dinner's cooked, things are feeling pretty good. We often all have a lot more patience when our kids bring stuff to us, right? We can sometimes take a deep breath. We can meet them with some calm. We can, we can respond in a healthy way, not react, right? We can all often do that when we are feeling good. It's when we don't feel good that we become very reactive. So much like you were saying then, that song helps you reset, be more playful, those kind of things. So in those first few moments, you know, when we are reactive, I often go through the checklist. Is it because— am I reactive here because I'm not getting my needs met? Which means I haven't had lunch, or I'm really tired, or I actually need a break, or I need some support, right? So we're firstly looking at our physical needs usually. Is my physical needs not being The second reason why we often get triggered is because what we're telling ourselves. And this is one that is, you know, I find actually turns up a lot. And that can be things like this. It can be the narrative that goes through our head. So let's just say our son or our kid's not doing something. And the thought in our head sounds like this, why can't he just be like his sister? Or, you know, if he was good, then my life would be easier. Or, um, you know, if he was, if I was a good dad, he wouldn't be doing this. So it's often a story that we've got around why our child's behaving the way they do. Now, when we've got a story around that, where we look at our kid and we make them wrong, we make ourselves wrong, it's really hard for us to have empathy and compassion when we've got that narrative going on. And so when we can catch that thought, we're like, oh, there's something here, right? So we kind of just, we shelve that. Yep, there's a thought there that's telling me my child is wrong. And there's something that we want to invest So, so again, coming back, the first thing is usually, is there a physical need that means I'm being reactive, right? And when I meet that need, I have a break, I eat some food, I have a sleep, I feel better, right? We know that helps. Is there a story that I've got going on, which is usually pretty much connected to, you know, some deeper stuff that we might need to explore? That's the second thing. Or the third thing, and this is the doozy, am I reacting because it's tapping into my own wound, usually related to childhood? And, you know, there is science out there to explain this, but I'm not a sciencey person, so I'm just going to talk from my lived experience. I have seen this too much to know that it's, that it's, you know, it's 100% true and accurate. When we get really triggered and fired up with our kids over small, usually things, and it's not about a need and it's not about what we're telling ourselves, it's usually tapping us into a wound from our own childhood. And that can be perhaps where we were not heard. It can be where we had to be good all the time. It can be that, um, something around control. It can be that we were shouted at. Like those wounds are there because they don't actually go away. They're asking to be healed. Now that is a bit of deeper work, right? And what I say to people when we're starting on the journey, the first step is to identify, I am feeling ABC. The second step is, how do I find myself back to my center for the moment, you know, to deal with whatever's present? Third thing is, what is causing that feeling in me? Right? So is it a physical need? Is it a story I'm telling myself? Or is it tapping into a wound that's bigger within me? Now if it's the third one, This is where we need to often talk to people. This is where we go to therapy. This is where we talk to a mate. We talk to a coach where we bring them something where we say, you know what, every time my kid throws himself on the floor and goes, it's too hard, I get so fired up. I get so activated. And ideally one of your beautiful coaches is going to go, tell me more. And we're going to go, well, when I was a kid, I wasn't allowed to give up. I had to keep going no matter And if I didn't, my dad gave me a whack. Now, when we then ask a question, if this was me and I was doing therapy with someone, I'd be like, oh, how old were you? Or what was going on there? And they were like, yeah, I was 5. And, and I would ask the question, and what did it feel like when your dad gave you a whack? Or, and, and was like, well, I felt like I was only good enough if, you know, he approved of how hard I put effort in. And then we can go, and what's that been like your whole life? And then we can just see the whole life has been about, I'm only worthy if I'm doing this. And then you have this beautiful little kid that you bring into the world and his default at the moment is just like, it's too hard. I can't do it. And what does it do? It taps back into our wound where, where we were never allowed to do that. We were never allowed to throw ourselves on the floor and go, it's too hard. Because what would have happened? We would have got whacked.

Hmm.

And so here in this moment, when our kid is mirroring perhaps what we didn't do, It's tapping us into our story and our wound. Now, the answer is not to just say to our kid, oh, you never have to do anything hard, honey. That's fine. Right? I know that's not the answer. I'm just using it as an example. But really it's about the feeling that is surfacing in that moment there. And you know, and when we can identify that feeling and maybe we talk to someone about it, maybe we sit with it and go, you know what, what did I need as a 5-year-old? I actually needed my dad to come down on my level, look me in the eye and go, mate, Life is hard sometimes. I get it. I know it's really, really tricky, but I'm right beside you and we're going to give it another go and we'll keep trying. But there's no shaming and there's no pressure. And we're going to keep practicing doing hard things. And each time you do something hard, you're going to get better at it. And this is how we get to mastery. And I'm right beside you and I'm going to guide you and I'm going to teach you without judgment, without shame, without punishment. That's probably what we needed, right? That was what was going to help us to be who we needed to be. So in that moment, our beautiful kid in front of us is giving us an opportunity to heal something that felt broken within us. And when we can heal that part within us, which means maybe we talk about it, maybe we feel teary about it, maybe we need to say, you know what, pretend that we're talking to our dad going, you know what, Dad, I didn't like that. That was not good. What I needed was this, this, and this. I don't ever recommend going to your parents and saying stuff like that, by the way, because it's between you and you. So we, you know, we do some healing work in whatever way that makes sense. You might want to journal, you might want to share it with a friend, you might go to therapy. But often when we've met that younger part of us with some compassion and understanding, we feel more spacious to meet our kids in those places. And I have seen this too many times to know that when we get that bit in our own stuff, our kids usually stop behaving in that way.

I love how aligned we are as well, because it all starts from the— well, in HPF we say be 100 to give 100, right? You're talking about being the best you can, and then that inspires the children to be the best they can. So there's lots of different, um, things we can model to our children. But what you mentioned there as an example, I really see, Leo, with the, with, with, well, with men and women, but with mostly the HPF clients we work with, because we've got that eye on the ground and that data is, yeah, they're circumstantial cycles. So if you're, you're becoming a martyr to life, your threshold is, man, it's paper thin. Whereas by investing yourself and, and it's almost like, not prevention, but it sees the situations they find themselves in where they just want to lose it as more of a signal because they're willing, they're aware, they've poured in their own cups. They've got more space, more time, and a bigger threshold to be able to really see it for what it is instead of just, like you said, reacting, blowing steam, or anything that fills the cup of, yeah, I want to feel empowered again. I want you to listen to me and I want to, you know, it's, um, yeah, it's powerful stuff. And they know, they know our buttons, like you said as well. And And, um, one of my son's favorite buttons is doing a WWF jump off the lounge into my spine when I'm laying awkwardly playing with Florence. Completely, completely passive. Like, thank you, son. That's why I've got 2 kidneys. But, you know, but it, yeah, but it is a, uh, it's, man, it's, it's a dangerous slippery slope if you don't start with the willingness because you'll never know. And, and that's the sad part I find with children because the cycle repeats. Yeah.

Yeah.

Firstly, and secondly, you, you're, you're so ignorant to the fact that of, of the, the positive influence you could have and where the source of what your children will now carry comes from.

Yeah.

Which is the conditions of the environment you've set as the father and as parents. Um, and then the, the willingness into building that awareness and, and, and taking those steps where, like you said, it'll get to points where, um, the self-reflection is great, but surrounding yourself with, with others or practitioners or professionals, Um, it's a beautiful thing. It's not about just being macho. I really enjoy that too, Laila. I mean, you've, you've seen when we've spoken enough that I find, I think it's strength through, through vulnerability. Uh, I've got no issues, um, being the, the Viking when I need to be. And I absolutely love being the panda when I need to be. I think it's awesome. Like,

and

both of them are doses that vary. I don't think it's great to, we're all like, this is the thing, like men hold onto things to try and cover up these wounds that need to be addressed, like toughness. Yeah. Name someone in the world who isn't tough. Like if, if, if we, like everyone's tough, otherwise the—

Who would survive?

Yeah, exactly. And whilst it's very unpleasant, um, with the current suicidal rates, given how hard life is, it'd be like 98%. So everyone's tough, but it's not the answer holding onto these things. And at the same time, there's this delicate balance I find in society where you can't tie sex to, to an expression. Like I can't stand the term toxic masculinity, right? But, but then what happens? You're either men will emasculate themselves and become not what is fundamental to, to society, or they triple down and go even harder. It's like, ah, no, like there's no victory there for, for, for society and families. But what, I mean, you've given some good insights, I guess, just to expand a bit more. Like some, some might be listening to this going, yeah, look, I am, I am, I am aware. I am present. I am, I do, do I do this? And my question's always, well, how do you know? You know, like score your marriage out of 10. It's an 8 out of 10. Sometimes they're proud, sometimes disappointed. I'm like, oh wow. If they're proud, not to cut them down, I'll be like, oh wow, 20% is a big number, man. Because I think humility is important. You know, it's not to shoot a man down. If they say it disappointingly, I'll be like, look, 8 out of 10 is a pretty solid score. But it's always the follow-up question. How do you know? What would your wife score you? What could you do to bridge that gap? Or, so that's where I'd love to go. And I'm quite, I mean, this is absolutely the first of hopefully many sessions because there's, I can't believe how quick the time's gone. So there is, there's way too much to dig into, which excites me. Um, so I do appreciate we can't spend too much longer, but I just, I'd love to get like, I guess you talk about connection. Like, what does that look like in practice? So let's move. It's not about tricks or tactics, but I guess we've got men listening. Hey, cool. You've given me stuff I can work on myself, but what does actually real connection look like? Not just being a physical body in the room, but would you mind just maybe giving us a couple of tips and tools for the men to take away and work on?

Yeah. I love, and I love how you pose, sorry, you phrase that question of like, how do you know? I think is a really good question. And that's, that's a great question in parenting. How do you know? Because often I find that, you know, we have one thing that, you know, often I'll say to parents, what do you think you're doing well? What do you think you could do better? Like, you know, where, where is that sitting? And then what do you think your kids would say? You know, and I, I think we, we get blind sometimes because we don't want to turn towards how painful and uncomfortable it is. And, you know, I love what the work that you do, Alex, where it's about really getting honest and it's about going, where is it at? Yeah. I mean, how do you know? And I'll just say this to any of you who've got kids that are maybe older than 6 or 7, you ask them right now. This is one of the most confronting questions you can ask your kids, and you have to be willing to hear the answer, but to sit down with your kids and actually ask them, you know, what is one of my 2 favorite questions? What do I do that makes you feel loved? Right. And that is one of the most powerful questions we can ask our kids because they'll come back, you know, little kids might come back with, you know, eating ice cream together, or, you know, it could be just reading book, playing Lego, kicking the footy. It could be like, you know, you always hug my mates. It could be, you know, you ask me to hang out. Like, you know, that question's a really powerful one and one that I think you should keep asking your kids at all ages. What do I do that makes you feel loved? Because we want to do more of that. But the other question is, is there stuff that I do that doesn't feel good for you? You know, if you could change anything in our house, what would it be? And I mean, I remember sitting down with my kids once and asking my son, I said to my son, if you could change anything in our house, what do you think it would be? And he goes, ah, it'd be really good if we had faster Wi-Fi. I was like, okay.

That's love right there.

What else, mate? And you know, he had, then he, then he went into the whole like, you know, well, I don't like it when his sister does this thing. And we had beautiful conversations around that, but sitting with our kids and actually saying, is there something I've done in the past or is there something in the way I've responded to you that has felt painful for you? Now again, that's an age-appropriate question. We're not asking little ones that. And again, It depends on the maturity of your kid, but you've got to be— and this is a great question to ask adult kids. It really is. If any of you've got older kids and you have to be willing to hear the answer and not go into, yeah, but blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, because that's your child's experience of what it is. And how we respond to that is, you know, it could feel painful to hear it, is to say, thank you so much for sharing that with me. I'll take that on board. And then we could ask something like, is there something that you need to hear from me? that will help heal that. Because, you know, I, oh God, I stand by this. It's never too late to repair.

Yeah.

You know, listening to people's stories for a long, long time, I have 50, 60, 70-year-olds who I've worked with who would give anything to hear the words from a parent, I'm sorry, or to hear, I'm proud of you, or to hear, you know, I love you just the way you are. There's so many adults I still work with who their big pain point is, is not ever hearing that from their parents. And so I say to parents all the time, you, you know, you have the opportunity now to create healing, to turn up today, tomorrow in a better way. And part of that comes from a willingness to change, but a willingness to be vulnerable and a willingness to ask these tough questions to say, what hasn't felt good for you? You know, what is, and then listen to the answer and then say, what would you need to repair this, to heal this? Now sometimes that's like, that's going to be trust. Sometimes it's going to be time. Sometimes it's like, I really want to hear these words. And you know, it's not as cut and dry as that. Like I know it's complicated and families are very complicated and there's a lot that's there, but even creating a bridge or an opening to have those conversations is huge because it sets up with the kid, hey, you can come to me with anything and you can bring the uncomfortable stuff and let's talk about it. I'm not going to turn away from talking about it. I mean, I share this story I love. My dad who's 70, And the book that I wrote last year, you know, he read and then he told me he read it 3 times, which is beautiful. And now he asked me to send him copies because he likes to give them to random people. And I'm like, it's my dad's freaking my book. But he rang me the other day and we've had a few conversations and he rang me the other day and he's like, Lael, I just wanted to check in with you again. Is there anything that, you know, I did as a dad when you were growing up that, you know, you feel you need to talk about or that didn't feel good for you? Or, and I'm, and look, my dad hasn't done a lot of emotional work, right? But he's coming to it in his 70s and it was so And I was like, oh, Dad, thank you. I feel really loved by you. I always felt loved and encouraged by you. I don't feel like there's anything between us. You know, I've done a lot of work on my own inner growth. I don't need anything from my dad. I just love him how he is. But I remember getting off that phone call thinking, oh man, you know, I'm lucky my dad's asking me those questions. I know people who would absolutely kill to have their parent ring and ask them that, right? How healing that would be. So as that parent, you can do that now with your You can learn to apologize well. You can ask them those questions. You can keep checking in with what that feels like. So there's one part of creating connection. A second part of creating connection, and these are really simple things, and again, relating to the age of your kids, is meet them where they're at. And that can be with play. So if you've got little people under 10 or 11, like once a day, even for 15 minutes, say to them, let's have some special time. And in that special time, we're going to do whatever the kid wants to do. So you jump on the trampoline together or you, you know, you play Lego or it's about what the kid wants to do. Not, hey, do you want to come to Bunnings with me? Or not come and cook the barbecue with me. Right. And that's what I'd see and blessings. And my husband used to do this too. It's what a lot of dads do. I'll take the kids, you come with me, but it's doing something that dad needs to do or wants to do as opposed to what do you want to do? And we don't have to do it for a whole day and we don't have to do it for 3 hours. You can do it for 20 minutes. Mm-hmm. And 20 minutes of focused connection where you are just kind of loving on that kid and you're filling up the cup and you don't look at your phone and you don't do anything else, you are just present with them. Presence equals connection, right? Our ability to be present and attuned with someone is what makes us feel seen. So, you know, if we're playing with our kids, but looking at our phone at the same time, or watching the footy in the background, our kids feel that. They know that. We all know what it feels like when someone's attuned So the simplest way to start bringing connection is often through play. Now, if you have a teenager or a tween, you know, it's going into their room and it's like, yeah, what, you know, what music are you listening to at the moment? Or have you watched any funny TikToks lately? Or did you see that reel on blah, blah, blah? And, you know, sometimes technology is a great connector that we can send each other funny things. We can connect in those ways, you know, that teens may need. Or do you wanna take the dog for a walk together? Or, you know, You know, you know, if you've got a kid, I tell this beautiful story, which I think is really appropriate for your guys. And this dad come and work with me once, and he had a 12-year-old kid, and they'd just separated him and his partner. And this 12-year-old kid wanted nothing to do with him. Like he was angry and he was just, and he's like, this dad was getting really, really angry that this kid wasn't connecting in the way that he wanted and all those kinds of things. And, um, and he goes, you know, when he comes to my place, all he does is bloody play computer games and I freaking hate it. And da da da. And I was like, yeah, technology's hard. And like, And he's like, so how can I get my son to, you know, be with me? It was so much anger and aggression there. And I'm like, well, firstly, we need to kind of work through those things. So we worked through all the feelings that he had there. And then I said to him, what is it that your son loves to do? And he goes, he bloody loves playing Minecraft or whatever the game was. I can't remember. And I was like, oh yeah. And I go, why don't you ask him to teach you how to play? And he's like, why would I do that? I hate that game. And I'm like, I know you do, but that's his world. He loves that.

Wow.

And I'm like, what if you went to him and said, I see how much you love this. I would love to learn more. Can you teach me? And so he was skeptical, this guy. And I was like, please just try it. Right. And so he went and did it. And he said to his son, and his son was just like, what? And really skeptical at the beginning. I'm like, it might take a bit. 'Cause he's, you know, he's got some feelings there. Anyway, he kept trying. I'd really love you to teach me. So they got another console, they started playing together. And then the kid, you know how they sometimes teens, they talk to each other while they're playing a game. You know, he heard his son go, sorry guys, I can't play with you. My dad and I are going to play together. Right. It was the first time he'd heard the joy. in his son's voice about my dad and I'm going to play. And the computer game became the connector. And so they started playing the computer game together. Now I know the dad didn't want to play the computer game, but I'm like, you got to meet them where they're at. So they started playing the computer game together. And then the computer game moved to let's go kick the footy together. Then they moved to— and he began to find this bridge into his son's world where he could meet him where he's at. And that again, for any dad or mom or anyone listening, I say, meet them where they're at. What are they into. Go be in their world. Get them to teach you. Tell me more. How do I do that? Like, be part of what is alive for them because that's well often what will feel connection for them.

No, it's beautiful. Amazing questions and that insight in the story. Uh, I hope you guys got a lot of value from that. There's just one more, if, if, if you're okay and have the time, there's one more thing I'd love to cover because we've spoken about the individual and then we've spoken about the connection with the But, and it does take two hands to clap and, and the environment that sets the standards for those children is, uh, and not all men are still in marriages or married and women, but is, is the, the leadership in the household. Uh, and we'll absolutely do another episode on, I think that'd be awesome on alignment and parenting and what if there is a misalignment in your husband and wife, but, but the wives of these men aren't just the wives of the men, they're the mothers of the children, you know? So, well, that, then that's, you know, I look at how hard Krin works and it's, there's, there's absolutely things that she can't do that I do.

And

there's so many things that she does that I wouldn't last at all. But what, what do you feel like, I guess, like just that, that, that glue between I'm turning up better as an individual and this is what I'm doing with my son or my daughter, but, but collectively for the household, like what do you feel or have found most, I guess, just finishing on this, this episode, um, that mothers need from the fathers. So the wives need from their husbands when it comes to parenting that they're not actually getting. And any final thoughts, I guess, or advice would be awesome.

Oh, that's a whole other episode. That's another episode. There's a lot in there. But let me give you top-level stuff. Um, yeah, there's a lot in there. There's so much in there, isn't there? Um, I think the first thing we all need is appreciation. Appreciation and acknowledgement. You know, I have stood in both places being like the primary carer for our kids, like staying at home for years, looking after kids, kind of running a business on the side. And then I've also been like the main breadwinner. Like, you know, my husband and I swapped roles, that kind of stuff. We've been together for nearly 30 years now. We've been through all iterations, I think, of relationship and parenting and all those kinds of things. And what I've learned getting older, and one of the most powerful things that makes our relationship still really good, is appreciation for for each other is, and it's the simplest things of like, you know, when my husband was working really hard to provide for our family, I was often in a place where I wasn't getting my own needs met. So I was resentful that he was going to work all the time and you're just working. And, you know, there was that whole dance of who's doing it tougher was going on. And what began to shift and change that was making sure we started to have conversations about how do we all get our needs met? That was the conversation. If we were to sit down as a couple and as a family and go, how do we all get our needs met? What does that Now for my husband, his needs were playing football. He loves playing soccer and playing training twice a week, playing a game on the weekend. His needs were also, you know, some creative time. My needs were having quiet and not looking after anyone. My needs were doing a bit of work. Like we looked at that, then we looked at the needs of our family and our kids and how can we make that work? Now sometimes just the 5 of us couldn't make it work. We needed support. We needed grandparents or we needed babysitters or we needed other things to make that work. But when we actually stopped competing and asked the question, how do we all get our needs met? That's when things started to change. And within that too, we started to appreciate each other. So I started to say to Mike, I really see how hard you work for us and I'm so grateful for the work you do. And then he was able to see me and just say, he would say to me, you have the toughest job. He would often say, you've got the harder job. I mean, I remember going away for a week once and, um, for a training and Mike, I think we only had 2 kids and he was, you know, looking after the kids and trying to do all the school and stuff like that. And I came home after that week and he looked at me and he was like, holy shit, how did How do you do this? He's like, it's so hectic. And I'm like, yeah, it is. Like sometimes we need to step into each other's roles. And I never fully appreciated the pressure that he carried earning the money either until I had to do it. So we often don't see because we're stuck in our stuff, right? So the appreciation for each other is a massive one of, I really appreciate how hard you're working. And then also how do we all get our needs met here so we can be the best family unit we can be? So I think that that's a really big one. I mean, I feel like there's so many more elements we could go into around relationship, but, you know, I'm a big fan of sometimes we need to stand in another person's shoes to really understand it, you know? And I think sometimes we do do different roles as men and women in families, particularly if you're the one doing the main caregiving and then someone else is, you know, holding all the, um, financial stress and pressures. We've both got pressures, both got pressures, and we're both working full-time.

Mm-hmm.

Right. And one is paid work often and one is not. And what we have done as a society is we've only valued paid work. Yet we know that the work of raising children is the, as we said at the beginning, this really important, it's one of the most important things we can do. We, we, we raise healthy kids and we're going to change the world. Yet we're not acknowledged for that. And this is, you know, it's a lot that I've heard from women over the years. It's how I used to feel too. You feel unappreciated, unacknowledged, not seen, all that kind of stuff. Yet it's one of the most powerful things that we're doing. So when we feel that our partners see that, man, that makes a difference because we actually feel acknowledged and then we want to work together to make a difference. So, you know, dropping the battle and the who's doing it tougher and coming back to, you know, what do we need here to both thrive? It's a good place to start.

Always the little things, isn't it? Starting with appreciation. And you know what, the men right now will be going, my wife needs to listen to this. And, but it's valuable. No, but it is like to have a a woman who's successful in, in, in business and in, in the, the, the economics of the world, which is a very, um, not, not necessarily masculine, but it's a very competitive thing. Like I said, this is your worth based on your number. That would be awesome for them to, to hear that because that's one thing I find women do need as well. Not, not the echo chamber of this is what value is, especially with social media, but actually something like the, the subtlety and softness of, no, no, it's, it's, there's, there's more than one way that you can provide and be valuable starting with yourself and also looking at the bigger picture.

And it's not just on Mother's Day. Let me tell you, for years I was so pissed off on Mother's Day because I was like, one day? Are you kidding me? Do you know what I do? And I remember having that conversation with my husband going, I feel so unseen and unacknowledged for what I do in this world. And one day just feels, you know, it feels like an insult. And then I would also be like, and especially if there wasn't much thought given into it. Like, I can't tell you the amount of women that get pissed off on Mother's Day, right? Because it goes to a bigger collective story of not feeling seen and acknowledged. Now, equally, I want to say equally, I stand on both sides. I can see how men can often feel non-acknowledged as well with the pressures that they carry. I absolutely get it. We're both doing it, but we both look at each other and make each other wrong. And that's what we don't want to do. We want to kind of go, oh, we all need acknowledgement. We all need to feel seen and we all need to know that someone's like, thank you. Thank you for how you're turning up in the world. Like, we all need it. It's not a competition. Um, it's really important that we can, we can see and get our needs met so we can, we can all thrive.

No, I couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree more. Lastly, what are you looking forward to most with the summit?

Oh, I, yeah, I'm looking really looking forward to being in the room with everybody and having some really good conversations. I'm really excited about it. I can't wait to kind of talk some business stuff. I'm really looking forward to diving a bit deeper on some of our stories and, and our beliefs around kind of what kids should be and parenting and all that kind of stuff. I've got some good juicy stuff to to, um, to, to dive into. So I'm super excited to be there. I, and I've said this to you, Alex, I feel like it's a real honor to be in the room with a group of men. You know, I don't often get that opportunity just to speak to fathers or to men and, and it's, um, it's a real privilege to do it. So, you know, I'm grateful for the opportunity as well.

Yes. I just got butterflies thinking about it. It's going to be amazing. And, uh, no, first, first of many, but nonetheless, an absolute home run of value today. Thanks so much, Laela, and hope you guys feel the same. That was awesome. Really appreciate you being on.

My pleasure.

Thank you guys. And, uh, like always, action, action is key. Um, it's not the only thing, but action is key. Lael's given you more than enough to take, reflect on, and then implement in your own life so that you, um, yeah, you can, you can live the life that you want, but also be, be someone who can provide. We talk about legacy and I said this last week, like, do you have to be dead for your legacy to kick off? Why not start it now. And, um, and one of the greatest things I see is, uh, is why I do HPF is the, the connection you can have with your children despite their age. So, uh, thanks, thanks, Lyle. Thanks, guys. See you on the next one. Hey, I just wanted to ask a favor of you. It takes 11 to 23 seconds, but look, the best way we can reach more people and change more lives is by more people knowing and listening to this powerful message. I'm just a cog in the wheel sharing this. I mean, every episode you hear is inspired by the members of High Performance Father, and the will and desire I see in the world of families looking to live a rich and fulfilling life with love. Jump on, give us a 5-star review if you can, whether it's iTunes, Spotify, Amazon, even Facebook, Instagram, anywhere where you feel there's somewhere where you can contribute and approve and promote HPF and the message that you align with in, in who we are and what we mean. That means the world to me, and it's the reason why I keep turning up and creating these episodes. So thank you, and I appreciate you. Cheers.