32. Tale As Old As Time

I think we're good. It's picking up nice and clear. That's with the mic. We shouldn't. I don't think we'll hear the kids. They're pretty loud though, aren't they?

Burst inside.

Thanks for. Thanks for doing this, Pop. Really appreciate it.

That's okay.

This is the most nervous I've ever been for any interviews I've done, Pop. I don't want to muck it up, mate. You got some runs on the board, hey?

Yeah, you got a few.

Thanks for joining us today. 93.

93 and giving 94 a bit of a shake. Yeah, closer to 94 than what we had in 93.

January is January.

Birthday. January is the birthday.

Unreal. And I guess one question, because I was talking to Corinne about this and you know you've had a huge amount of life experience. One thing I'd love to know is what your oldest childhood memory is.

The oldest one.

How old were you? What were you doing? And just to shed a bit of light on part of time, of the world in which obviously the rest of us have never ever experienced.

Yeah. Well, I was born in Marigold and we moved around a bit in the early years. The reason for that, I wouldn't know. It was in the depression years and possibly, I suppose the parents were chasing cheaper rents, you know. And I remember more about living up in Belmore as a kid in the early years, but this, I don't know. I remember I was about 10 years old when we moved there, or happy 10th birthday there. But as I said, we had two brothers and we were middle of the depression, more or less. Dad was out of work. But as a kid those things didn't phase you because you didn't realize what your parents were going through. You know, you. You just accepted life as it was and you thought that was a natural thing. Although you'd hear kids talk about after the Christmas holidays where they'd been up to the entrance of Woi Woi or been to Narrabeen Lakes for the holidays, but we never knew what a holiday was. Perhaps we only go to the beach once a year if we're lucky, But we accepted all that. But that was just natural for us. You more or less made your own fun as a 10 year old. And during being 10, I remember I was taken up to my mum come from Kempsey on the north coast, and her mum, that's my grandma, was still living up there and I was taking up during the school holidays. I was. Well, she stayed at the Grams. I was sent down on the farm for the six weeks of the holidays and they worked on the farm and I learned how to milk cow, ride a horse, bare back too. And that was quite an experience.

Yeah, because you were born. So you won 1926. 1926, it was about six, well seven, seven to eight years after the war. So it would have been a tough period, I'd imagine for.

Yeah, it was. As I said, it was tough and we didn't have any pocket money and to get any pocket money we had to earn it sort of thing. As I said, we three boys, we sold lettuce on the weekends. A big box in our arms of about a dozen lettuce. So two dozen lettuce and whatever we profit we made, we kept. And that was our Pokemon.

Businessman. At an early age, Pop going to the markets, I'd imagine grabbing lettuce and reselling it.

We used to go around those places. A couple of kilometres from where we lived you find market gardens. Those days there was market gardens and small dairies and you'd go on a Friday afternoon after school the three of us had to go to these market gardens and pick up the lettuce which my dad had been there the day before and got them all ordered and of course we had to go rain hail or shine on the Friday afternoon after school we went over and picked up these lettuce and that was the ritual went on for quite a while.

Were your mum and dad strict?

Not really, no. We had a pretty free reign as long as we come home all right. Mum was happy, I think she was happy to get us out of her hair. We used to frequent Belmore Oval a lot, you know, and those days the oval wasn't and only had a picket fence around it, it wasn't fully enclosed sort of thing. And that was actually before Canterbury Bankstown was included in the compound. We'd have miniature games of football on the oval ourselves and we made our own fun and weekends we'd probably watch you go down and watch some junior football down there. And as I said as a 10 year old and I suppose we lived there for a couple of years until I was about 12 and then we moved over to, over to Belfields. Then another one of our moves. And both Belmore addresses, they had fuel stoves in them. I didn't have to do it occasionally, only occasionally, but my two brothers had to get up, it was still dark and they'd go over to the goods train line which was about a kilometre way and collect coal that the firemen on these Goods strains would throw off and there'd be quite a few people there all collecting the coal, you know, to burn in the fuel stoves. And that's how mum done the cooking and how you kept warm at home. And we lived there for a few years Till I turned 14, I think it was. And I used to go around a big bread factory not far from us called Gartrell Whites those days. And it was a big factory and they had a lot of run bread runs operated out of there. And I used to go on a bread run on a Saturday as an offsider and get 2 shillings for the day. And it was a long day sometimes till 6 o' clock because the bread was delivered on a Saturday and you had to get enough bread was delivered because Sunday was a holiday and there was no deliveries on bread, no bread baked like they used today. If it was Monday was a holiday, well, you had to cover two days sort of thing, you know what I mean?

What was a shilling? Is that 10 cents worth or.

Yeah, two shillings was 20 cents. That's right, yeah. I can imagine them today doing that. It was hard work, but if you wanted a bobber, that's how you. Anyway you got it, you know. And then I eventually got a job there at nighttime. Used to start at midnight and load the trucks and the vehicles ready for the red cars when they come in every morning to ready to move out, you know. And I guess there was quite a. I say quite a few. There was well over 20 runs operated from there. Then eventually that was 11 shillings I got for that for that night you'd work at 12 and knock off about 6 in the morning. Then I got a job on. Working on the. Excuse me, on the bread table. On the revolving bread table where the. Where the chaps were working the ovens, where the bread. They had automatic ovens and they loaded the ovens up with the bread. By the time they. The ovens completed the cycle, the bread was ready and they unloaded the bread and shot them down their chutes. They come onto this revolving table and you had to stack them up on me. And believe me, you had to keep moving because the bread kept coming and if you didn't, it was. Bread was going everywhere. I got 16 shillings, $1.60 and that was all my job. I did that. I left school and I left school at 15 and then got a job and got a job. I had to go in town and look for a job when I left school and that was. And just walked around, asked anybody different places they're looking for any employees. And I got this job in a place called British products. 25 and sixpence a week. My dad said I couldn't take a job unless I got 25 shillings a week. But then eventually put in for a job at the Sydney County Council and got that. And that's where I worked for the next 43 years.

Yeah, with that, Pop, when you were going through those different jobs as a teenager. I'm trying to work with the times. Is that when the Second World War would have started?

Yeah, well, the Second World war started in 1939, actually. I was still at school.

What was that like?

Yeah, well, as a teenager, like, I was 13 when the war broke out. You know, it didn't affect. Didn't affect you. Me at the time, because you were, you know, you're just something you read in the paper about a war. And. And it was until I was about. I might have been about 16. Round about that when it started to affect our family was when my eldest brother was called up in the army and he was 21, I think. 21. And then he was 21. And that's when everybody got. Once they took. At the time, they got called up at 21, and it was only called up for six months or something like that, I think. And then when the war started to get to deteriorate and things got. Things weren't looking too good overseas, but they were kept in permanently. Yeah. And then the second brother, Eric, he got called in at 8. He was 8 when he turned 18. And then I was looking forward again. Because I was only 16 and everybody else was going on. You thought it was one big adventure, you wanted to go. And I joined the air force and. Served two years. About two years and two months. Yeah. It was all part of a life experience and a good experience, really. And you look back on it and, you know. But as you say, from my experience, going from. I suppose from my early years from around Belmore there, and to see the changes in their lifestyles. And then after the war, things really started to change. You know, first thing after the war, we still had rationing. Your clothes were rationed. The beer, you couldn't. You're lucky to get a beer. Anyway. Cigarettes were scarce and petrol was rationed. It wasn't until 1949, when there was a change of government, that the petrol rationing was abolished. And that was about four years after the war finished. You got a book of coupons, you know, and you buy a pair of trousers. You had to put so many Coupons in. Once you ran out of them, that was it.

Fascinating.

Yeah.

With like you said, Belmore. Is that. Is that why you go for the Bulldogs, Pop? Is that where the sort of.

Well, I spent most of my life living in the canary area, except when I was born in Maryville. My parents operated a fruit shop in Asheville. I was only 2 and 3 and that is. That's not much memory to me. And we moved to Campsie a couple of times in Campsie, then to Belmore twice and then to Lakemba. We were living in Lakemba when we got married early on.

That's a shame. You and Bondi, mate, you would have gone for the Roosters. They won this year.

Always been a bulldog, never changed.

How'd you meet Nan? Was it school or boys school?

No, we met Nan up at the local dance up at Lakemba. Had a dance there every Saturday night at the Palais. And yeah, I played football with her brother went to school. We played in her school team together and we played in the week in team together. I didn't know she had a sister. He had a sister till he spoke. She spoke to me and it must have been the dance there, the barn dance or something. And she spoke to me and said, hello, Reg. You know, I didn't even know who she was.

Too busy cutting up. Cutting some rug while. Yeah, out on the dance floor.

Yeah. Just how Mary she was and ah, well, there we are nearly 70 years later.

Must have been a catch, mate. All the girls were after you.

Oh, I don't know about that.

Trying to get in early.

Yeah.

Probably be a different dance these days if they had a Lakemba dance, you think, or.

Oh, it would be entirely different. Just about each Saturday there'd be two or three dances going Saturday night and two theaters going. And when the. When the TV started to come in, picture shows folded up one after another.

Yeah.

And for some reason other. The dancers, they all closed. I don't know when.

Yeah, tv, because that wasn't in your early. It wouldn't have been around earlier in your childhood.

No, no, no. Watch TV. 50, 1956. TV camera.

Yeah.

Well, I can remember my parents getting. I think I was only about 1 or 10 when they first got a radio and that was a big deal.

What happened before then? Just newspapers and word of mouth.

Well, that's all. That's what it had. It was like everything those days. Nobody very. If you owned a car, you'd have to be a pretty rich person. Owned a car those days.

So I remember you saying that it Would have been like horse and cart. Probably still then.

Well still it wasn't a lot of it but a lot of your delivery stuff was horse and cart. Your bread cart. Because you got your bread delivered those days and your milk. No horse and cart. You had an ice man come bring you ice because nobody had fridges refrigeration, they just had ice shelf. You put a block of ice in it and put a bell underneath at the bottom. Underneath. And the ice melted because it dripped through. Had to remember to empty the bowl. Otherwise you get water everywhere in the kitchen.

You didn't even have fridges. That's how you kept all. Would you keep in there just your meat and your dairy? I'd imagine.

Yeah. You get things like that, you know. And was until. Oh and we got married in 1950 and we weren't married all that long. Then we bought a fridge. Start putting the ice price of ice up all the time. So we worked out we could pay off a fridge if we were paying the ice bank.

And when did you get your first car? When was that sort of becoming a common thing for people?

Yeah, well mum and I, we were married. We didn't get one till 1960. In 1960 we bought our first car. We were married 10 years before we got a car. Some people are fortunate enough they got one before us. I suppose we could have bought a second hand one but we weren't. Just kept saving till he could buy a new one. And that's how we operated. It was the same of everything like that, you know. They were all pretty dear to what they are today and same as your televisions when they first hit the market they weren't cheap.

It would have been a fascinating thing to see. TV's coming in and then black and white to start with and then color soon after.

Yeah. And when they come in there was like 17 inch ones. That's how big they were in black and white and you got a 21 inch one. And another thing too, we used to have insurance on me on television to cover the cost of the tube. Kept telling us how dear the tubes were if you had to replace one, you know. And at first too, when you first early years you had to have a TV license from the government and. Yeah.

TV license.

Yeah, yeah. I didn't tell you that part too. But we you originally with the wireless you had to have a license. The wireless radio license.

Wonder why that was.

Like everything raising a bit of revenue.

That's right. What's it been like for you Pop, Seeing the. Not just the Shift. But the speed and the changes in technology from day dot to where you are now.

Yeah, well, I'm afraid I got left behind in the technology because I didn't try to keep up. Actually.

I wouldn't.

Yeah. Obviously I wasn't worried about getting a computer, I suppose. And the phones kept changing. Everything kept changing. You know, one year to the next. Everything's changed quicker than that sometimes. And as you get on the beach, you think, what's the use? You know, as long as I could do the basic things on it, like there's a phone, as long as I could ring out, something could ring me. And that was all I was interested in. Yeah. And. That's where the big changes in life, I mean, you're from growing up as a kid, like I was in the depression years, till to today, there's been mighty changes. The way people live today and what we did.

Yeah, maybe some better, but probably a fair bit. Not as good as well, with some of the changes, eh?

Yeah, well, I've heard, Pete, you talk about the good old days in some ways, good old days. And sometimes you wouldn't want to go back to them. You know, when people say good old days, I mean, you go down the street and leave your back bloody door open and you could. You weren't frightened to get a train home at midnight or something like that. But today, that's a big difference like that today. They've taken a lot of enjoyment out of things when.

A general level of trust and.

Yeah.

Common courtesies and whatnot as well.

Yeah, that's true. You wonder what's next on the line, if it changes. And I suppose there will be a lot more to come. You know, space travel around the corner and all this. It will come. I suppose.

It's fascinating at the rate it seems to be. I mean, I'm sure there were big changes from stuff like horse and cart and ice boxes to fridges, but it seems like at an exponential rate, it's like. Like you said, even now, six months later, there's a better phone or a faster piece of technology.

That's right.

Faster Internet or like I said, you hear a lot of the really wealthy billionaires talking about space travel and all these sorts of things. It's. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah, well, that's quite a way off yet, I think. But it will come. And like everything else, they're expensive to start with. As they get more and more into it, things will get cheaper.

Just jump on a plane and do a day trip to Mars. May only cost you 100 bucks.

That's if you want to go there. I think I'd still rather be on planet Earth.

Yeah, I'm with you on that one. And actually I'm curious to ask you as well, Pop, because this is, this is connected to a movement that I started as well in helping fathers. I'd love to get your experience and how you saw it like fatherhood for you, just switching gears a little bit and going into your personal life from that point of view. Like what was it like for you becoming a father and you have three kids?

Yeah, well, we had a bit of trouble at first before my wife got pregnant. But we always. We tried to start a family just after we got married and as I said, we had a bit of trouble there. But we've got no regrets. We've read two boys and a daughter, both have been pretty good and. Yeah, and they're still. Yeah, we've stuck together as a family and I think that's. We still do. And you get a lot, you get a lot of pleasure. There is a few heartaches along the way, but I think everybody has that few ups and downs. We have more ups than the downs. And. You weather some of the storms and you're coming out better for it now. I've enjoyed fatherhood and I wouldn't swap it for. I just think the lack of discipline on the children today. Perhaps I'm a bit old fashioned. I think they get everything too easy today because my childhood, as I said before, is exceptional circumstances and perhaps if things have been as affluent as they are today, things would have been a lot different.

Yeah, I can definitely say that even though things have gotten faster in the modern world, which I don't believe is necessarily a good thing either, but it seems like with that and technology, kids and younger generation have just got access to. It's just access to everything. Which means I've got almost senses, you hear it, sense of entitlement. Or I can get something quicker or instant instead of delaying some form of. You spoke about selling lettuce heads and earning money or saving money to either buy a car or a house or other things. And there always seems to be an easy option to still get what you want even though once it's in the journey, like you said, they don't have.

To earn it anything to die, don't they? Like we had to earn anything if we got it, we got to. And not today they don't. It's just seems to be automatic. They got the best of fans of these iPads or whatever. You call them everything that happens and shuts they've got.

Yeah, yeah. It's some things were earned over years and decades, aren't they? But that seems to be of.

But in as I said in our day growing up, your parents just couldn't afford. You're lucky to get a feed on your table sometimes.

Is that something that you believe? Like you said, weathering the storms and overcoming adversity makes you stronger.

That's right, it does, yeah. When you realize nothing was given to you, even in later years when you first started work and everything like that and to save to get something, you know. But in saying that there's a few, still few things today, I think the young ones have got it tough. I think they trying to get a home and I think it's not that it's been easy in any era to get a home together. I think today it's out of proportion today, I think.

Yeah. It's funny, isn't it? Like I said, some things would be hard to get, but then other things, it's almost like a false illusion with access to social media or technology and other things they can have the best of instantly. But then you know, at what cost as well.

That's right.

With either housing or the population growing and all those bits and pieces.

Yeah, that's right. And no sign of it going to get any better neither. Well, they keep on bringing immigrants out, they're going to be in the big demand for housing. I honestly don't know. Young ones could buy us off to die out. The rents they gotta pay.

It's unreal, isn't it? And with yourself, Pop. And so you had two, two boys and a daughter and you grew up with brothers. What was it like having a girl in the house? That's my mother in law, Sandra. But yeah, that changed a little bit, I think. Crin tells me that she used to have a room to herself for the boys at the share room.

Yeah, yeah, they did too.

How'd they take that?

Oh, they had. They okay. Actually we got that wrong. Really. She boys should have been in the front room and Sandra out the back.

She had to be grouped or something.

Anyhow, everything worked out all right.

And the process of childbirth, it would have been different, I'm sure because when Crinz had our kids, Lillian and Stella, we've been able to. I've been in there with the whole time. Was it different? Were the rules different when it came to.

Oh yeah, well that wasn't the norm in our day. They wouldn't let you in the birth, anyway, they tell you how to get. You take your wife in there and then they show you the front door, you know.

Nan couldn't just call you on the mobile, mate, to let you know how.

That's right. I wonder why they did that.

They made it very strict for men to be involved. Or is that what it was?

Oh, I don't know why the reason was, I don't know. But same as they wouldn't let children in under 14 to come and to even the visit. I think possibly the reason, I suppose they didn't want children carrying diseases.

That's right, yeah.

Yeah.

I guess that was probably a concern as well. No worry with fatherhood. Obviously, I'm not a grandparent yet. And is it different, like, what's it like when you go from being. Going through. You've had earned your stripes more than obviously some of the standards of today in terms of getting through some adversities and tough times and then you've become a father, you've had your kids. What's it like seeing your children then start having their children and grow up and whatnot, and then being a grandfather.

Well, it's good that you can. You sit on the sidelines and watch it go on. But then again, you see what they're doing and you think, the way you brought yours up, I wouldn't do. God, give them a smack. Give them a smack, you know. But anyway, that's. Yeah. But overall it's quite nice to be able to see how they rear their kids and how quick that they grow up. Because I think in our day, I think they're like. I don't know, you'd say they were kept babies longer. They seem to be.

And.

They more or less dressed them as babies longer today. They seemed to be straight into clothes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I got plenty of smacks off my old man when I was out of line and I'm grateful for it, but, you know, it's not. I think there's a difference between abuse or belting and, you know, it's. I apply a firm tone at times with Stella when she's overstepping the boundaries, so to speak. And I think there's value in that from an animal instinct point of view, for them to understand the chain of command to a degree.

That's right. Yeah. Well, I can remember we didn't. We didn't build it or anything like that. I can't remember coping it. I think I copped one over the face one time, I can remember. But apart from that, we just Wandered our own ways. I knocked around the middle brother more than anything. And we'd go. Because those days there's a lot of open spaces. Land hadn't been built on and around it and you wandered around. You made your own fun those days and.

Bit of bike riding and I mean, that'd be a popular thing.

You didn't have a bloody bike.

You want one for Christmas, didn't you?

I wanted a scooter. I wanted a scooter for Christmas. I pumped that one as wishful thinking. I don't know why. I wanted a bed and got up Christmas morning. Nothing under the bed now. Anyhow, I got one for my birthday, which is not long after Christmas. But it wasn't the pumped up one, it was a scooter. When I think back now, I don't know how they bought the bloody thing. Because I can remember dad was out of work at the time. Pretty tough times for them, as parents would have been. Because as I said as kids, when you're around, you just accept it. You don't realize just how tough things are. Or as a 10 year old or 9 year old, you wouldn't, you know.

Especially given. Especially given Pop, because now I'm thinking about that when you were born and your brothers were born a bit earlier, which your eldest brother would have been born almost just after the war.

Yeah, he was born in 21. He was born.

So your parents were going right through the war, from teenage to adulthood. That's the first war which would have been a big thing, I imagine.

Yeah, I went through that and then caused the Depression, straight into depression. It was pretty tough in those depression years because I can still remember that they get made coupons and stuff. Coupons for food. Dad walked for miles to get to these places because he had no money to pay fares. Yeah.

Amazing, isn't it?

Yeah.

And here I pop at the top of the tree. What a legacy, mate. What's it like being a great grandfather? Let us start a real. A real grandfather's movement.

A real great grandfather. Yeah. Well, about eight times over now.

Yeah. Wow.

Yeah.

Had a cuddle with Lillian earlier. It's amazing seeing her with you and just time and life and experiences.

Yeah. Anyway, things grow from two now. The family multiplies.

What. What's the greatest piece or just any piece of advice or something that you'd love to pass on or give or pass down to people like us, the younger generation. Anything from life lessons, values or anything that you'd love to share because there'll be a lot of people who resonate and take this on board, including myself. When it comes to advice from someone who's certainly been there and done that.

My advice is show respect, respect people, trust people and. Just. That's about it, I suppose. And earn the trust of people and that's what you've got to do.

Yeah, it's such an interesting one because you'd say something like that and straight away people would default back to old stories where they've been burnt or someone's done something wrong by them. But it's a case of, like I said, if you keep putting yourself out there and. And earning trust, and I feel with what you said there, mate, like, leading by example, you'll eventually attract the right people in your life anyway, won't you, mate? I mean, there's always going to be the other side of it, isn't there?

Oh, yeah, there's always that too.

You get smarter for it.

Yeah, that's right. The majority of people are. They're. They're good people. Majority are. It doesn't take, you know, when you mix with people, it doesn't take you long to sort them out anyway.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Carrying yourself that way, not letting other people try and influence you the way, the wrong way, and you hold true to your values and like I said, you figure out pretty quickly and you're holding yourself with a common courtesy, respect, and that's right, take care of yourself.

Treating other people with respect. Doesn't cost you anything.

That's contagious too, isn't it?

Yeah, that's right.

Seen it before. Just driving. You let someone in or you're nice and laid back and then they'll do it and they'll do it. Or. Yeah, you brighten someone's day by being courteous or showing some respect.

Yeah, true. That's right.

Yeah. It's quite a journey, Pop.

Yeah, well, I was going to say it's quite a journey when you look back. I love you. My dad used to always say to me, he says, life's short, son, just make the most of it. And when you're young, you think, oh, short years to go yet, you know, but all of a sudden they sneak up on you and you think back, jesus, where did all that go? You've been married, you reared a family and they moved on and. Yeah. And you find then that you're getting near the end of the road. Then you think back that a lot's happened over the time.

And. I had a friend tell me not too long ago, I'd never heard it before. But he's talking about when it comes to the kids, especially with some of the tough days when they're nightmares. And he says the days. It's funny because the days are long, but the years are short. The days are slow, but the years are fast. I seem to be hearing and feeling that a lot more as well. I'm 34. You've been here nearly three times longer than me. But between 18 to 34 has felt like the same space. Between 15, 18, it's been like a blink of an eye. Here we are, been out of school for nearly getting closer to 20 years.

Yeah, I think that's right. As you get older they seem to go quicker. Quicker. It's all in the mind, Marky, but you know, you just seem to get one year finished and you start the next one. Say Christ is Christmas again.

It's almost like December and January don't exist between Christmas and New Year's and Australia Day.

Yeah, that's right.

It's the biggest for me what I do, Pop in trying to help other people, and especially fathers understand the value of time so they can be the best they can be for themselves and their families. That's the big. That's the code that I don't know if it can be cracked, but I'm trying to crack to give people that perspective on knowing that exactly what you just said is so true. But instead of being in a state and listening to this and you feel that appreciation. How can we do that consistently over period of your life to really.

Yeah.

Live life on your terms instead of wasting it away. Because it, it does go quick.

Yeah, it does go quick. And as we say, the latter years seem to the fastest.

Anyway. Yeah. Any plans on becoming a great great grandfather, Pop or. I enjoyed getting a few photos today of you cuddling Lillian. I think it's a special thing for her as well and Stella obviously, but something that I wish well feel honored and blessed to be able to do if I can see it out that long. We're talking about that earlier, weren't we, about the life expectancy and whatnot and medicine and things like that seem to be.

Yeah, that's right. And they'll continue to make improvements all along. They're always talking now and hear them on tv then when you start to get your hopes up and then they say, oh, they should start testing in about four or five years time. I thought, you know how long it takes them to get on top of some of these diseases and I get a cure in five minutes. Do they?

Yeah. That's right. Really appreciate your time today.

Well, that's okay. Good.

Coming on and sharing your story and some history and what's one of the greatest. Just to finish up with. I guess one of the greatest memories and greatest achievements that you feel you've had in life. Might not be one, there might be a few. But is there something that really connects with you in the life you've had up until now?

Oh, I think the craziest one was meeting my. Meeting Elva. And yeah, she changed my life around. And I wasn't too long, about a couple of months out of the air, of course, when I met her and I was still a little bit on the wild side, I suppose. Just turn things around a bit.

Turned you into a romantic, mate. From the sounds of it, I'm not sure how much it's worth, what value it is in having someone my age tell you, but you should be bloody proud of yourself, Pop. And the legacy that you've lived to this point and what you've passed down and what I've seen as well. I've been part of your side of the family for 16 years now and. Yeah, special family, mate.

Yeah, they're good kids. Still call them kids. Always be kids.

You're allowed to.

Yeah, that's right.

That's right. Yeah. Oh, it's been a pleasure and honor and thank you for. Yeah, thank you for giving me the opportunity.

Yeah, I hope it's been a little bit helpful. Anyhow.

Thank you for listening those who will be listening to this or watching this. And. Yeah, hope you got some value out of this. And really the big takeaway for me was understanding and appreciating that. It's how you look at things, isn't it? It can always be better or it can always be worse. But there's certainly periods of life that we seem to have clawed out of things like depressions and wars and almost survival type feelings, to be in a position where we can create more and do more and have more, but only if we have a level of, I believe, gratitude for what we've got.

It's a gift, isn't it? Yep. Yes. You'd be thankful for when you see what some people go through in life, Medical wise, you know, they seem to get one thing after another, don't they? And. Like my brother's daughter sue, she lives out of barrel. I mean, she had breast cancer and she had both breasts removed and you had that malleable cirrhosis. You know, you get hit with a double whammy. It's pretty rough but yeah that quite a bit in families.

Here you do you do the greatest thing to do I guess is from what you said weather the storms and continue to move forward and even for me even at stagement now I look at life and go and it's not in a cynical way but there's no rulebook that shows that life's supposed to be fair and across the board and you should expect this or XYZ oh.

That'S right you can't expect anything in life can you.

I've really enjoyed this chat today Pop.

Yeah that's good Alan.

Something we'll have recorded forever which will be awesome I love that to pass pass on some history as well and where we were to where we are now and obviously your story and your life.

Good man thanks again Pop no trouble Alex no trouble.

Thanks for listening guys I hope you enjoy this and we'll see you again soon peace. Awesome.