38. Parenthood now, Parenthood then, it's always you.

Welcome, everyone. This is Al, but obviously you already know this. Welcome to the Real dad movement. Another podcast episode. Got a special guest. Got my brother, my older brother, bigger brother. Matty, the oldest. That's right. But I wouldn't say the old boy yet, But Matty's. He's 40 this year.

40 this year? Yes. In a couple months.

That's awesome, man. I think their plans for Kokoda isn't there. I'll have to.

Yeah, yeah. Hopefully we can get a small group of. Of special people together and go to Kokoda, do the Kokoda track. So just been in talks with those guys and just sort of gauging everyone's interest and hopefully it all comes together.

That'd be awesome. One of the guys who I used to train, he. I think he represents Kurt Fernley. He did the track crawling. He's an Olympian, I think, with a disability. That's right. Yeah. He's. He crawled it 100ks. Unbelievable, man. What he's telling me about it. And I was starting to think about with you and your birthday coming up and doing it, I was visualizing like, shit, man, that's a push up every single meter or like a bench press. Every single meter. Insane. But, man, it'd be an awesome. It'd be an awesome journey. I definitely want to look into doing that with you and a few other boys later this year.

Hopefully you can make it. It's a big commitment. I understand if people can't, but, yeah, look, hopefully we can get a nice tight small group together, go over and do it and bring in the forties with a bang.

Yeah, absolutely. And look, thanks for joining us today, man. I wanted to dive into, you know, a bit of your story and Sharon, I mean, Matty's the oldest in our family. We've got four boys. So point of today is basically just to hack shit on dad and bag him out and send it his way. So you can listen to it. The old bull. He's Some stories. But let's start with yourself, Matt, because obviously I, you know, I've known you my whole life, but introducing yourself and where you're at now. And then we'll dive into a bit of. A bit of the history and upbringing together.

Yeah, sure. Well, yep, as we said, I'm 39 years old, grew up in St. Clair in western Sydney, son to Joe and Bronwyn, our beautiful parents. They had us at the ripe old age of. I think mum was 20 when she had me, and dad was maybe 24. So very different to nowadays. Yeah. So that was. We grew up pretty much in a suburban, typical western Sydney Suburban setting. 600 mil block of land, single story house, three bedroom. And you know, obviously as Al said, we had four kids ended up coming along. So we outgrew that pretty quick. And yeah, then we went to. We moved in with our grandparents for a while while dad took the undertaking to build a bigger house for our family. So that was pretty exciting. That was from. I think I was in year five when he started building that. I think I was in year eight when he finished. So it was pretty much a four year process. And I guess that's what happens when an accountant decides to own a. Build his own house and be at least half the trades on that build as well. But that was pretty interesting experience and upbringing and then yeah, I guess moved out of home when I was 18. Had a lot of different jobs doing different things. Mostly my careers have revolved around building, construction and sales and I've had the opportunity to work alongside Al in the past and I still work alongside one of my other brothers, Tim and we've been selling and installing swimming pools around Sydney for the last 12 years now. That's my professional sort of career. That's where we're at now. We've started a few other businesses off the side of an excavation business and a pool heating business.

Cryptocurrencies as well.

Yeah, professional cryptocurrency trader. It's funny actually, I was doing all right just with bitcoins and then I kept on having all these people who I'll leave them unnamed telling about all these other great coins I should turn my bitcoins into. And anyway, hopefully I wasn't one of them.

Here we are.

I'm a hodler. I'm a hodler from way back. I don't know how to sell things. It's hard for me to let go of cryptocurrency. So I've still got it there. Yeah, yeah. Personally I got married four years ago. I had my first child eight years ago and I've got a family of two boys and one little girl. Seven month old she is. And then a four year old boy and a seven year old boy. Rocky Kai and Rain and married to Bree. We live in Maroubra currently and yeah, we just, we're just starting to come out of the baby cloud I suppose and starting to book holidays and trips again and things like that. In the late stages of pregnancy and then late stages of pregnancy and then when the baby's also just born. It's pretty Much survival mode. And each time you do it, it's a little bit different than the last time because although you're a little bit more experienced, you've got a little bit more on with more children and whatnot. So. Yeah, but it's a journey. It's all going pretty well. Outside of work and the family, I do a little bit of circuit training, try to do a little bit of hiking and things like that. Running at the beach, swimming. And I've actually just started trying to be a vegan the last four weeks. I just wanted to try it for eight weeks just to see. See how it sat with me. So I'm sort of in the middle of that little experiment and. Yeah, that's about where I'm at.

There's a little. The little boss. Little range. She run in the house yet or.

Yeah, she's close. Yeah, she's. She's. Yeah. I mean, she's teething at the moment, so she's got two bottom. Little bottom chompers and she's got a top. Little fan coming through. Just one. And look, whatever the. She loves her brothers. Loves her brothers. Whatever they're doing, she wants to do it and she just idolizes them. But, yeah, no, she's. She's great. Very happy. Very happy little kid. Little boss. Yeah, little boss.

It's crazy with the teeth. You don't realize. To become a parent. Lillian's 10 months old and she got five at the same time. They're just all coming through. Five at the front, man. Jesus. Been a.

Can you imagine what that would feel like? Imagine you just had gums and then all of a sudden you had these sharp white bits of bone starting to stab through your gums.

Yeah, I couldn't imagine, man. It's lucky we don't remember that stuff, right? But.

No, that's. Right.

That's awesome. And we'll dive into, like, the. I guess the importance, because it's always been at the forefront, you know, up and down in different sports. I know basketball is something. You're awesome as well. You had a few operations, actually, more than me with the knee and. But it's always been there. And we'll talk about the importance of that with trying to be fit and healthy for your kids, because obviously there's. Well, 99% of fathers out there seem to fall down and fall apart. Like I said, every time you get another one, it just compounds. There's something else. There's more. Your experience, sure, but your time less, probably. Tolerance less. But it's interesting, man, because When I look back over our life, is this something you think just comes naturally being the eldest but you are always sort.

Of right out there.

Left home at 18 was it to go to Melbourne to start a business, wasn't it?

I left at 18, I just moved out. I moved to Erskine park. So just next suburb over, just for a couple of years and then I think when I was 21 I started working. I started working in the labor home recruitment and then the opportunity to move Interstate was like 23, 23, 24 to start my own business there. So that was my first taste of starting and running my own business.

And what was the like with it comes to the decision making process what was the driving factor for you to not just go and get a job or just settle or stay still or.

Ah geez. I think, I think dad in large part would always instill in us that where we can do whatever we want and we should push ourselves and that it's good to strive for not the normal to go for. From a young age I can just remember always wanting to be my own business and be my own boss. But before I actually worked out what I liked and didn't like or even what I was good at, I sort of always, I think I like the idea obviously you're motivated by different things at different times. But I kind of like the idea of you know, trying to make a lot of money and sort of not have a boss and sort of all these sort of more I guess immature sort of goals. But then the unexpected sort of benefit when you actually do it is the flexibility is fantastic when you've got a young family and also the opportunity to I guess express yourself through your business is good. It's good if you're the boss. You can really create something, create a team or create a legacy or create a way of doing things or make a real dent in the market or in people's lives. It feels like sometimes you've got a little bit more capacity to do that as a business owner rather than as an employee. That's what I've learned as I've sort of gone on my journey. But yeah, I think from a young age I just kind of, I guess I wanted to prove to myself that I could do something hard and do something on my own. And yeah, I think I was actually scared by the thought of kind of just settling, settling down for a nine to five, working for someone else, living in the same suburb we grew up in. I sort of wanted to get out and challenge myself and explore. I've always sort of just liked the idea of doing that. It's just always been more attractive than going for the safe sort of the safe bet nowadays when you have kids, you can sort of see a little bit more value in security and you know, maybe not chopping and changing or just moving interstate to start a business and doing all these things that I did in my 20s. But by the same token, you still do have to risk and push yourself otherwise you're risking your family's security if you sort of go stagnant as well. So you know, it can be a tough market at different times and in different areas. So you've got to keep. I find security in, in pushing the boundaries of where I'm at and where I think whatever market I'm in is at as well.

Yeah, fair points, mate. I mean, I completely agree like we have in rdm, we've got a lot of dads that own their own businesses, a lot of high profile dads and we have a lot of fathers that fly and fly out, shift work from all walks of life. But I think the big thing and what you said then, which was a big takeaway for me, was the greatest security you can have is investing in yourself through exploring yourself and what appeals to you, working and having a boss. Awesome.

Good for you.

If that's who you want. But I definitely understand that. It's interesting though, I think like back to us in our childhood. Do you think there was a reason why dad seemed to. I don't know if it's a chip on the shoulder, but do you think there was something that he took from being an immigrant coming over? He shared some of his upbringing and that's what drove a level of sport, how competitive he was. And that's something he naturally instilled onto us. So what do you think was the driver behind him to give us that perspective?

Look, in a really lovely, respectful way, I think he's a bit of a tortured man in a way that he probably sets incredibly high expectations for himself and you know, he's got some really big plans and of what he wants to do and he still does. And I think part of that was him proving to himself that he was, he was good enough and he wasn't all the things that maybe people called him when he came over from overseas. And you know, you see it a lot, you see a lot of, a lot of self made people, they're immigrants that come from nothing. And I think when you've got that, when you got that tough environment, when you're Raised in that tough environment, it sort of makes you go one way or the other. I think one of the quickest ways to demotivate someone is to put them in a beautiful, pristine environment and cater to everyone and need that they've got. I mean, there's no real. You're not really gonna be trying to push for anything more. Why would you? So I think, you know, Deb obviously had a tough environment. I think we had a great upbringing. Did we have everything that. That we. That we ever wanted? No, not at all. Did we have everything we needed? Yes. So, you know, feels like a lot of us spoil our kids these days, you know, and mum and dad probably spoiled us a little bit relatively to what other people were doing with their kids back then. But I think a lot of it comes from dad. Dad wanting to really prove something to himself and have some big plans and some big dreams. And, you know, I think that's, you know, I think that's a lot of it comes from that.

Yeah, it's interesting too, isn't it, the dynamic. Like, I look at dad and move mountains for us, gave us the firm love. And mum as well, could play both, but she was such a loving, stable rock for us as well. And it was. It was interesting. Like you said, we had everything that we needed and it was a good foundation, you know, like, if we. It's true, man. Like, if we had everything handed to us on a platter, like, would we. We still want it?

Will we be driven?

Almost certainly not. And it's interesting when you look at that because I'm sure there's. There's some big, valuable lessons you got from. Was it six knee operations? How many have you had from.

Yeah, I've had three reconstructions and two or three arthroscopes. So sort of they go in there and they. They cut it and clean it all out. And, you know, I only stopped playing basketball. Most of those injuries were in my early 20s, early to late 20s, where I was sort of, sort of playing rugby league and AFL at a fairly. At a fairly low level. But yeah, I got my knee injured once when I was 20. I was 21 playing AFL. And then. And then I played league and some other things over the next couple of years and just kept re. Injuring it. I think that, yeah, it takes you on a bit of a roller coaster when you get a knee injury. Obviously, if you're used to being pretty active and competitive and part of a team, and then next thing you can't do that anymore. And all your friends Are sort of, a lot of them are going out and doing things and so you sort of more gravitate towards your friends that you can still sort of, you know, start going out a lot and I'd start eating more and you know, you put on weight and would start smoking or you know, drinking a bit more and stuff like that. In my early 20s it's easier to drift towards that when you don't have that, that outlet of. That physical outlet of being able to go for a run or play sports and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, look, it was, it was good. The funny thing is now I think my knee's stronger than ever and I think I'm probably out of just my immediate friends. I'd probably be one of the most fittest ones out of my friends. So I don't let it stop me from doing anything. And I think my legs actually quite strong and I don't think my legs ever been as strong as it has been now because as you go on the journey and you learn more about the mechanics of your leg and you really, I mean it's really apparent to me now if I keep moving, keep it strong, then I'm going to be able to do physical stuff with my kids and stay fit and healthy into my 50s and 60s. If I don't, if I take my foot off the gas and just sort of become more sedentary and don't do anything for the next 10 years or so, I can see my health and my mental state would probably take a bit of a hit for sure.

And it's really interesting, isn't it? Because it's like you don't have to be 180 kilos and go through all this to have these aha moments can come to injuries, come through injuries or experiences of those around us. But to tie this into the loving and nurturing and firm. But you can do whatever you want in this world type environment that the mum and dad helped us with our self esteem. That's a really funny one because my point of asking about your injuries and whatnot was looking and going well. The adversities, the challenges, what you went through. Yeah, maybe you didn't need to do it six times but obviously at least for a few of those, especially the first one, what we spoke about, valuing your health, your leg, your knee, all these different things that encompass who you are. It's hard as we become parents, is it when we talk about naturally spoiling our kids because it's like I don't want my children to Be in pain, as you're probably saying. But at the same time, I'm like, there are some invaluable life lessons that I've experienced that think it's important for Stella and Lillian to find her feet with. I mean, is that a fair thing that you'd probably agree with as well?

You need your challenges. Yeah. You need your adversity. It probably ties into what I was saying before about how we were raised and whatnot. You can't. You need a bit of a diversity for perspective and to force you to learn about yourself and how to overcome obstacles. And. Yeah, you're right. I think probably one of the biggest things we do as parents for our kids is we try to avoid them encountering any negative situations whatsoever. It's probably making them a bit soft and they're gonna come across some hard stuff. They're gonna. They'll outlive us. So, I mean, at some stage you won't be there to help them and something hard's gonna happen. So, look, I'm very honest with my kids. Like, when it comes to death, sex, reproduction, if they've got any questions, I just answer them, just without emotion. But, like, I just try and tell them honestly, look, this is what's happened. You know, Grandma's passed away. People pass away usually when they're a bit older, sometimes can happen when they're younger, you know, and we just have a bit of a chat about it. And so I sort of try to. I don't sugarcoat it and make up sort of stories and different things. I just sort of try to tell them honestly. And it's like Rocky asked me before, like, oh, where do babies come from? And I said, well, you know, the man has a penis and he puts it in the girl's vagina and sperm comes out and the sperm meets the egg and then a tiny little baby forms and then it grows in Mum's belly for nine months and then it comes out. And he just sort of nodded and said, okay. Well, it's a bit weird, but makes sense. And, you know, and he was. I think he was six when I had that chat with him. But he asked me, so he asked me a question, you know, I didn't want to sort of start making up all these different stories, but same with anything, if I'm having a bad day or if something happens bad, I sort of try to just be honest with him and speak to him a little bit like an ad. Bit more like an adult than like a. Like a kid, because there's not that many hard things that happen to them in the early stages of their life. So at least I can start to prepare them a bit by just honestly with them. When they ask me a question, a request for information, I want to give them an honest that they can store away and go, okay, I know how that works now.

It's funny, I think of that video, the old art video cassette. Where did I come from? That cartoon?

Yeah.

They're doing the tango and the sperms like the shark music. And he starts dancing. And I must have watched that like 50 times. I think I was about 6 years old.

Yeah, yeah. Well, Rocky's asked me a lot about. He asked me a little bit about death because. Oh, like what happens? Because unfortunately we've had, we've had probably more than our fair share of funerals to go to in the last couple of years. And you know, and that's just how life is. You know, you might go for five years and no one dies. It's great. And then all of a sudden in a one or two year period, you know, you go to seven or eight funerals and or more and you see what's going on. But Rocky said, you know what happens when you die? I said, well, people, people don't 100% know, but you know, people have got different ideas and it's kind of up to you a little bit to decide what you want to believe in, what happens when you die. And if people are really religious, they believe they go to some other place or heaven. If you watch the animal documentaries where the lion eats the gazelle and the gazelle is the meal for the lion, but then when the lion dies, his body goes into the ground or other animals eat him and it's just a big circle, it just goes around in a circle. We're all on the one planet and we just sort of have these sorts of chats and he doesn't seem that bothered by death. And then I've got a friend who's a bit more religious and he's explained the heaven and hell sort of theory to his child. When they've come up with the same question and their child is constantly asking, I'm not saying what I've done is right and what he's done is wrong, but their child is constantly requesting more information about who's up there. What happens if there's too many people up there? What does it look like? Because of the absolute, what's the rules? And that's what a child does.

They want to know how it works.

What'S the detail in this. But the problem, obviously, with that story is I think it could possibly leave the child a bit more anxious, sort of knowing there's a few holes there. I'm not exactly. That doesn't kind of. That doesn't sort of make it. But everyone's got to find their own thing. But I like having these. It's good that you have these honest conversations with your kids and actually makes you question your own sort of thought patterns and beliefs.

It's funny, isn't it? Such a. It's like. It's like a dichotomy of growth when it comes to your children, whether it's nurture or challenge, discovery, adversity, like you said, meeting them where they're at, where. It's a bit of an art to it, isn't it? I mean, there is no real right or wrong or approach, I guess, is there? It's like, I believe in the stuff that you've said in presenting that transparency and to help them try and, I guess, form up as they get older too. You know, obviously they're under your wing for X many years. And then actually, I remember one of the dads telling me 80% of your life with your children's when they're up to 18 years of age. That's pretty bizarre, isn't it? But it sort of makes sense because I think since sort of 18 or 20, how often do I see Mum and Dad, how often do I talk to them, as opposed to when you're under the roof? So it's pretty important years, aren't they? But between 0 and 20, in the influence that we can have over them.

Yeah, that's a pretty interesting way to put it. Definitely. Definitely. I know Jordy, our youngest brother, he's 13 years younger than me, he's eight years younger than you. And we worked out we'd only been living in the same state for, I think, six years of his life or eight years of his life or something like that. So when I moved to Melbourne and he was still in Sydney, and then when I moved back to Sydney, Mum and dad and Jordan moved up to Queensland and I'd only spent. It's funny to think, like, I've got a brother where I've only ever lived in the same state as him and he's 26 and I'm 39 and I've only lived in the same state as him for like seven years or eight years or something. I don't know how much time you got there, really, with people. That's just how it goes.

They're funny. People get traditional constructs of what family should be or what life should be. And it doesn't make sense to me. Predetermining something which as an eventual, can be whatever you want. But that's something I wouldn't mind asking about that, man. Talk to me like childhood when we grew up riding bikes. I remember your red line getting stolen out in front of your house.

Unbelievable, man. But that's a good life lesson. That was a good life lesson. Don't leave a $500 BMX out the front of the shops and then go into. That's right.

But we were very active. Like, it was awesome. But not that I'm against technology, but I don't know, what are your thoughts on childhood that we went through as opposed to the modern world and what kids are exposed to in these days?

I thought, I think it's. Life's different for adults and children these days than it was back then. Obviously, you know, when we grew up, we had the one corded phone in the kitchen. Maybe Mum and dad had another phone in the bedroom at Blackwell Avenue. I can't remember, you know, one TV, five channels. On that TV, I think you'd only get cartoons between 6am and 8am and then on Saturday morning, maybe it went to 9am or something like that. Obviously no phones and no social media, no computers. Maybe we had an Atari or something. So it was pretty much, you know, you'd have your breakfast, you have your sugary. Your sugary breakfast. You know, you get all jeed up and then you put your helmet on and you take off on your push bike and, you know, you come back for lunch and then you come back for dinner. And that was exciting. And I actually don't think that there's any more. I know parents generally aren't too scared nowadays, in a lot of cases, to just let their kids leave on a Saturday morning with no way to contact them and then just. They can come back before dinner or before lunch or something like that. A lot of parents I know, they want to know where their kids are, especially if they're under the age of 10. But I can remember being pretty young and just being able to take off. I don't think there's actually any more abductions or bad stuff happening. I think that it's on social media and, you know, the Facebook group. So what? You know, watch out, someone, this nearly happened and whatever. And I think that people are just more. It's more in people's face about, you know, this could Happen if you're not there with them. So, you know, I get it, it's different. Like I work in swimming pool industry and in that industry we've seen growth year on year for the 12 years that I've been in the industry. And I think a big part of that is people that want their kids active and doing healthy stuff, but they want them safe. So a pool is a good way to do that. People work from home, kids come home from school, jump in the pool for an hour, jump in the pool for two hours instead of just sitting down watching TV or. You know. I think, I think I remember dad going to work. He sometimes drop us to school, sometimes not. But then I quite often remember him not coming home before sort of 6:37. A lot of the time during the week, but then on the weekends, you know, most of the time, you know, he might mow the lawns and then he was just around, you know, he never really. He didn't have. He didn't go to the pub or have mates that he'd go do stuff with. He pretty much devoted himself to taking us to sports and just hanging out with us around the house and whatever else. So that was pretty cool. I think for my kids would see me a lot more just because I usually drop them to school and pick them up every day. So I'm sort of with them kind of from 5:30 onwards. So probably see me a bit more. Might see me a bit more in the morning as well.

But yeah, growing up, I know how dad did it. Hey, when we played cricket. You mean Tim were playing cricket on weekends?

We had one car. You wonder how they coordinated everything, where everyone was and all that sort of stuff. There's just one phone. I mean it would just blow your mind together. There's just one phone in the house and if someone would get a hold of you and you weren't at home, they can't get a hold of you. That sort of stuff is tight, hard to wrap your head around these days. It wasn't that long ago. Yeah, I think, I think it was. There was less stuff to worry about. It seems like there was less stuff to think about and worry about back then. And maybe people had a bit more time to be present with their families and in the moment, even though maybe dad got home from work a bit later, you know, he was either with us or watching tv, he wasn't on his phone or, you know, wasn't getting notifications of this and that, whatever. I've got to make a real conscious effort at Home to. I've actually got two phones and I'll just switch one off and I turn off all the notifications for everything because you just get pulled away from being in the moment with your kids. And your kids can see it straight away as soon as they start trying to grab your phone and, dad, stop doing this or stop doing that, and you start checking your emails and thinking about stuff and you're not present. I don't think our parents had that problem. I don't think that they. You couldn't check. There was no emails, so they couldn't check emails from home and, you know, they wouldn't get a call about work from home. So I guess it's just different. I think everyone does their best, but you just gotta always be evaluating your priorities and just making sure that, you know, with all this new technology or new opportunities or new stuff, that that still lines up with your priorities. If you want to be, you know, a good family man, present with your kids and you want to really enjoy their time and vice versa. And the time you've got with them, you got to be present with them and you got to. You got to, you know, you got to think ahead a little bit. But the. Yeah, growing up, yeah, it was different. It was very different. It was like, you know, you bring your mate and you try and go to his house or something and then maybe you played board games a bit more and got outside a bit more. But, yeah, it was a long time ago. Ali, what do you remember about it?

It is. I remember playing test match and always losing.

Scorecards on your own. That's right, Alex. And then Alan Border and you're on the Australian team and you just did the scorecard.

Let Ab open the batting with me, mate. It's good, man. Yeah, No, I really enjoyed our. It was funny, like, being really overweight when I was younger, it was handy to have older brothers who had my back because it's tough. It's different, isn't it? Like you said, we've got social media and technology and all sorts of bits and pieces, but it didn't take away someone pointing out, hey, you're fat, or making someone feel bad whether you're overweight or not. So, you know, a large portion of my childhood was surrounded with how loving and nurturing Mum was. And then when she put the foot down, she certainly could break doors if she wanted to. I think one of our brothers, Tim, did get his door broken in once when he locked her out in his room. And then having you and Tim and Jordy yeah, he was younger. You know, one memory I do have is Tim crash tackling me through the gyprock in the kitchen. That was pretty funny. I don't know how we're gonna hide that. But dad come home.

That was just ring dad. You'd ring dad while he was still at work and so he could get really upset about it and then calm down for a few hours before he got home. You know, he'd go, dad, I'll put a hole in the wall. And you start swearing and carry. But I remember. Well, I mean, in a way, but Mum and Dad used to let us come home and there'd be no one home. We just let ourselves in and then it was just the three kids on our own and, you know, you'd sit down and have baked beans on toast and a bowl of cereal and you'd eat and then you take off in this. But we were sort of left to rule ourselves, like to a degree from not. We weren't that old. Maybe I was when we started doing that. Maybe I was 12 or 13. 13 when we moved into the house in Saint Clairs, I was 13, Tim was 10 and you were 8. And we just used to all come home and if Mum and Dad were at work, we'd be at home from 4 o' clock till 6 o'.

Clock.

We'd have two hours on our own. So that's when all the crazy stuff happened. Broken windows and putting holes in walls and, you know, massive fights with bloody sticks and rocks and playing cricket, playing golf inside the house with real golf balls. Playing cricket with real cricket balls just out the front.

I could see the good and the bad, you know, like, of having brothers and being self sufficient that way. But then also, like you said, some of the crazy times.

Well, you remember Liam. Liam used to love coming to our house because he just used to love hanging out with us and seeing the brothers and like seeing all of us together and just being part of it. And I can remember a few people. It's funny because Liam had a younger sister who was five years younger than him, so he was the only boy in his house and, you know, next sibling was quite a fair bit younger. And Tim had Pat Farrell and he was an only child. And I think people used to like to come to our house because they were like. I remember people saying, oh, you're so lucky, you know, like you got so many brothers and your mum's such a good cook, you know, Mum. Everyone used to always talk about Mum's cooking, just whip up all this food in like five seconds, you'd look in the pantry, there'd be nothing. And then two minutes later, mum's got three or four dishes of all this different stuff to feed everyone. And I think we were looking back, I think we were quite lucky, as you say, to have each other. And you never really bored for too long. There was always something, some stupid idea you could come up with. Ride the mattresses down the stairs or climb the trees out the front, or explore the building sites near our house. Remember, they're just building near our house for like five or six years, opening up all those new estates and you just wander around and wander on the building sites and climb the frames and stuff.

Yeah, and it was a great, it was a great semi controlled environment for that natural push and pull. I think that's the beauty of siblings and that. I don't even know if rivalries of the word or competition, but just having that, that resistance, having our own agendas, but then being together and then exploding, but then supporting each other. I think it was awesome. Not that I've got anything wrong with an only child. I know a few mates who are only children and like you said, they will naturally gravitate towards that though. It's interesting to be in that environment.

Well, me and Bree talk about, like, we feel bad sometimes that we haven't got enough attention for the kids. As you have more kids and you're probably your third and fourth and fifth if you have more and more kids, because I know you got two now. Once you have more, if you have more kids, you feel a bit guilty as a parent. You're like, oh, I used to be able to sit there and, you know, really spend an hour reading every night. I can't do that anymore because there's two others and they want different books and whatever else. But the thing that you miss is that they've now got more people to play with and as they get older, they're gonna want mum and dad's attention and time sometimes, but they're gonna more want to hang out with people closer their own age and their own interests and. And that's what you get in a bigger family. Less time with mum and dad, but more people to sort of play with and enjoy.

Interesting the mindset behind it, isn't it? Like, do we want that because of our own internal perspective of what we think that they should have, which equals the value we have ourselves of being a parent? Or is it genuine in that child needs me for an hour. And like, you're right. Like, Lillian's been amazing for Stella. Um, but then it's funny because then Lillian doesn't really get us alone. That's something we need to be mindful of. Whether I take her out for a little date or Crin takes her out and I spend time. You know, it's. It's interesting. But I'm curious, mate, like, how's fatherhood change. Change you, Matty? Like, you know, you've got three kids now from Rocky. Like that first thing, how did it change you initially and then as you start to move towards, I guess, the second half.

Yeah. So Rocky nearly eight years ago. So I was 32. Look, I guess you sort of. Obviously the first one really changes your priorities because instead of life all being about yourself, even though you've got a partner and you know, you do anything for that partner, but your life pretty much more or less revolves around what you want to do, your own wants and needs until you have a choice. And then once you have a child, obviously that gets turned on its head and you go through a process of really reevaluating all of your priorities and goals, which I did. I actually saw. I didn't go to the gym as much or see my friends as much, but I kind of doubled down a bit at work. I had a renewed incentive to set up some financial security now with obviously the arrival of a child. So that was good. And then obviously that kick started us to move from out of a unit and to find a house. And so obviously that's another big sort of undertaking. Look, I think I'm probably less aggressive than I used to be, just not that I was an aggressive person, but I'm a bit more. Bit more calmer. I can get stressed out, but I wouldn't react. I know you've seen me obviously lose my shit on more than one occasion over probably not incredibly big things. You probably wouldn't see me do that anymore, but I don't know if that's just. As you get older, you sort of mellow out a bit more. But, yeah, other changes. But look, after Rocky was a baby, then I sort of became really motivated to keep myself healthy. I was quite conscious that by the time he gets to sort of 10, 15, 20 years old, if we're gonna. If I. If we're gonna go hiking or camping or bike riding or kicking a ball or whatever, I have to keep myself. I have to keep myself fit and healthy. I've got to sort of invest in that to be a good parent. And then, yeah, look, I've set A bit of a goal for myself. Me and Bree really want to help all our kids, give them a helping hand in securing a house for their families when the time comes. So financially we sort of start to set those goals, not just for ourselves, but if, like, we live in the eastern suburbs of Sydney, which is not a cheap place to live, and if we want our kids to sort of grow up near to us, we've got to start. And we want to send them to nice schools and things like that. We've got to really start to plan and think about that sort of. Now that's my motivation. That's my motivation and my plans or big part of my motivation, sorry, is that. But yeah, the second one comes along and it's a bit more of the same and you sort of feel a bit guilty about you can't give the first one as much attention as you used to, but then the second ones, you sort of, you know, then you see how they grow up and they're got a different personality and, you know, that's all amazing. And then you start going on holidays again and things like that. And look, I've never really been the type of person who really liked to stay out really late at night and stuff like that. I'm happy to go to bed at 9:30, 10:00', clock, 10:30 of a night. So you're sort of forced to do that with kids. And when you go on holidays with kids or you go to the Easter show with kids, it's awesome because then you start doing all the stuff you like to do as a kid again. You start going on the rides and.

Relive it a bit.

You start playing Lego together, playing toys and reading comics and watching cartoons. And look, I'm a big kid, I do all that stuff with my boys all the time. You know, it's pretty funny how much kid stuff I do with them. And I really enjoy it. I really enjoy it. So I guess sort of connecting with my inner child a little bit again since having kids, you know, just starting to enjoy those things. That sort of, you know, might look a bit weird if before I had kids, I was just sitting in the lounge room playing with Lego for two hours and someone came over and would see that and sort of go, what's going on? Or playing Beyblades or something, building the Death Star. But with kids. Yeah, with kids you can do it. It's like, oh, let's do this. This looks like fun. So look, I love it, but yeah, the third child, look, it's a big shock. To. This has been a big shock to. It's a bit of a quantum leap from two to three in a way, because it's not. It doesn't get easier physically as you get older. The lack of sleep and, I don't know, it seems like when I was in my 20s, you could sort of stay out all night and go to work on three or four hours sleep and you're sort of okay. But nowadays if I get 5 hours or less sleep, like, I'm pretty bad the next day. So that's a little bit tougher. But look, you just, you just, you go. I guess for me, I just try to not be. Feel guilty about not having enough time. You just, you know, just try and remain calm. When I'm with my kids and present, do my best and try to pick activities or things that we can all do at the same time. Try to plan ahead a little bit, have a bit of a plan. Try to get them outdoors as much as I can get them. Like, we've got a lot of nice walking tracks and beaches and stuff and scooter parks. Just try and get them out, get them out and about. If I keep them at home and we don't have a plan and I'm sort of just rushing around trying to do stuff or clean the house while I've got. If it's just me looking after all three of them, for example, it'll just be a disaster.

So, yeah, it's funny, a couple of things you touched on there. I was thinking back to the mobile phones and distractions. It's something kids only really know, don't they? The present. For a long period of their life, they only really know the present moment. And for us, it's like that fine line. Because when Lillian was born, my productivity went through the roof, same as you. I was like, okay, what do I need? Like, I was more invested in life. That's what I love with children. You lose time, you lose sleep. But it's like, I've got more to live for. And it'd be so awesome if you could bottle that into someone who's. Who was single and in their 20s and didn't have kids. Right. That ethic and drive to produce more. But it's really interesting when you start to have more kids. I'm the same now with Lily and Stella. I'm creating stories, going, I feel bad. I want to give them more time, be more present. But I'm also like, here and now doing this sort of stuff and trying to build an empire so that in Maybe not the next, but after that, the next present moment and providing a foundation, a platform which gives them, I guess, more opportunities. It's interesting, isn't it? You know, that balance for us as fathers wearing many hats and men, trying to provide for the family, but also be there and experience lots of present moments. Because it's gone, isn't it? Like little rain. She's what, eight months? Like, she'll be walking soon. Hair will come. It's crazy, isn't it, man, how quick it goes. They're no longer a little koala that you remember yesterday. Just like Mum and Dad. Probably how they see us when they watch this and see this replay. Like, mum's 20. Crazy.

You know, a lot of people say that. They say it goes fast, like life goes fast. But I think, I mean, all you've got is right now. So, I mean, I'm really happy with my life right now. I think we chatted about this a couple months ago. Like, I think for me, sometimes planning too much for the future and sacrificing too much in the now for the future, I can see it could lead to possibly some regret. We've all got our own path to carve out and work out what we. I think if you devote your life fully to your kids, but then completely neglect your own journey and whatever else, you actually won't be setting. One, you won't be setting a good example for your kids. Two, you're not going to be happy. And you could actually end up resenting or blaming the fact that you had kids for why you didn't do what you wanted to do, or why you're not happy or why your life's not where you want it. So you. You gotta sort of. I think it's the same with, for me, with sort of trying to be in the present. I think it's easy for dads to think too much about the future. I don't think there'd be too many dads out there who go, look, you're just not thinking about what's gonna happen in the future a lot like, whether you're actually doing something about it. I think most people are worried or occupies a fair bit of their mind space is, when are they gonna be able to pay this off? When are they gonna get to this stage? When are their kids both gonna get to school so that they don't have to pay preschool fees? When are their kids going to grow up to the stage where they sleep all the way through the night? So I'm not going to have broken sleep anymore. And you're sort of constantly looking at these little milestones that are down the track. But you don't want to miss the journey now. You don't want to miss all the good stuff that's happening right now. And that's the challenge.

Yeah. People focus so much on the result and cycle. It's a moving target. Changes like, here I am, I don't have a gym anymore. When I first opened Crosswick Wellbeing, I thought I could have a gym into my 40s. And that's just the scope of the mindset. But if I stayed fixed in that and that's all I did, I'd be losing out on the precious present moments which has led me to being in this position. And it's really interesting what you're saying there with that. I find that a lot. Maybe it's how conditioned we are in society or how society tries to condition us in. It's a fallback, right? A sacrifice I give to give to my kids. And Nonna was like that. She just cooked for everyone. And it's like, well, fuck, when are you going to invest in yourself? You know, it's that funny balance or that juggling act of being more for yourself so you can be more for your kids instead of. Like you said, I think if they just. All you did was the kids, there'd be some risks or regrets there. But what's the big thing? Like, there are a lot of fathers who listen and watch this stuff. And I know you've mentioned Matty a few times as we wrap this up. You mentioned about your physical health, fitness, staying fit and healthy. Like, how is that? It's pretty obvious, but it's also good to hear from lots of other people as well, including yourself. Like, how does that play a role in you being the best father you can be for the boys by staying physically fit and strong?

Well, yeah, you have to stay healthy body, healthy mind. One, it's about what's best for yourself. Two, it's about what example you want to set for your kids as well. Okay, so if you. If I'm always eating crap, crap, food, food on the run, too much food, the wrong type of food, I'm going to be riding the highs and lows of sugar rushes and caffeine rushes and all different sorts of things. So I'm not going to be as consistent at the workplace. I'm going to sort of have highs and lows for me, if I exercise, then that sets. And I exercise early in the morning, that sets me up for Good habits throughout the day. If I don't exercise in the morning, I'm much more likely to stray into some other foods, more processed and sugary foods that are basically going to lower my performance. I'm not going to have as much ongoing energy throughout the day. I'm not going to be in as good a mood. So look, I find it incredibly important. And then I think it's just when you invest in yourself, exercising and trying to live healthily, that investment, it's like you're just reaffirming to yourself that you are worth that effort of time and energy to maintain. And it sort of gives yourself a bit of value. I suppose in a way it can help to sort of say, look, I'm worth doing this for. I need to be at my best. Not just for me, for my business, for my family. I think it's being responsible. I think it's just being responsible. Like we don't make the rules. This is, you get this body, you get one body, you get one life. Basically, if you don't keep that body healthy and if you just eat shit food, then you can't expect great results. And look, I'm getting to the stage of life now where some people slightly older than me and even one younger than me, a couple younger than me in the last few years have died of cancer and these other sorts of things. And look, I know a lot of cancer is just fully random, but I'd still like to give myself the best chance of not getting heart disease or heart attack or cancer or anything else by just trying to live as healthy as possible. And I want my kids to see me do that and do the same.

Powerful stuff, man. I mean, I've written some of these points down and I'll definitely be using them, setting the example and consistency. They're two big, big and powerful things. And reaffirming your worth. Well, you're investing in something that's solely for you, right? So that means that you have to value yourself. Otherwise why would you do it? That's important because your kids would say that, wouldn't they? And self value. We don't make the rules yet. You know, these are all powerful things, man. I agree 100%. And if there was a father out there who's listening to this and he's feeling a bit sad, stuck. Because a lot of it comes down to the real estate between the years. Yes, but what you can do with that, to actually take some action and move, like what would be some. Just some advice, some passing advice to dad to help him. Either questions he should ask himself or processes or actions or habits. I don't know, just something that your two cents worth that you pass on to people who might be struggling.

If you only did one thing, just one thing to try to change where you're at. I'd say if you just one or two times a week, just wake up half an hour earlier than you normally would and just go for a little jog before the family wakes up, before anyone wakes up, go for a little run, go for a little jog. If you live near the beach, go for a little swim, just get up a bit earlier and just don't get out of bed at the last possible second. Just get up a little bit early ahead of time and get your body moving. Get out in the sunshine, in the air. And that, I reckon that would just be one thing that I would probably say to someone if they're really struggling. Go for a walk, whatever. Take the dog for a walk a bit earlier if you're struggling. And I think that just sort of helps you put in the right mindset for the day. Helps you see everything a bit more clearly and just gets the blood moving. And I think the morning sets up your day to a large part. So, yeah, that's what I'd say.

It's a. Yeah, man. It's good alignment, isn't it? Because you look at a lot of these men and fathers with all these different hats, that's just what they do. They wake up, it's a fucking mad rush because the alarm goes off, they press snooze, and then they don't even get good food. And then they're just sitting in this cubicle all day. And then they go up and down the lift, they go home to take more like 600 steps, and then they're back in the grind again, you know, instead of actually taking some time out for themselves. And I like that. Getting out in nature, I'm big on that. Walking around, whether it's trees or beach. Definitely some value in that, man. Anything else you wanted to add, mate?

No, no, no. Good to chat to you, Al. Obviously, we don't live super close, so whenever our paths sort of cross, it's always good. Obviously, we're in a busy time of life with young kids and businesses that we're trying to grow, but, no, it's always good to chat to you, mate. And, yeah, thanks for having me on your podcast.

That was good, man. Thanks for jumping on, mate. It's been awesome. And I'll touch base with Tim at some stage we'll get him on. And like I was saying earlier, Jordy isn't a father yet, so he has to wait.

Geordie? Not that we're aware of. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Awesome, mate. Thanks for jumping on today, mate. It's been unreal. And look, thanks for joining in, guys. Whether you watch this or listen to this, hope you enjoyed this show and got some golden nuggets. I certainly did. There's some awesome stuff from Matt and just good to share stories, father to father, real. No bullshit. Just being open and transparent about life, the ups, the downs and what it can be, but what you can also make it, which is a big takeaway that I got from that. Awesome. Thanks, guys. And we'll see you on the next episode. Chee.