42. 2003 PENRITH PANTHERS PREMIERSHIP MAN

All right, guys, welcome to another episode of Real Dad Movement podcast. This is your host, as you obviously already know, Big Red. Although I've got to be careful saying that we've got another Big Red here, don't we? Swing Dog. Joined with a very special guest. Good mate of mine, actually. Big, big brother. You know, when I was coming through in the. In the Panthers jersey flag days and had a big impact on my life, man, in terms of work ethic, working hard and redhead sticking together, that's for sure. But we've got Swaney Luke Swain with us today, mate. Thank you for giving us your time and joining us, brother.

No worries, Alex, no worries. Glad to be here, mate. Have to put a caveat, though, like, you were the little big brother because you were foot taller than me when you're 19. So down there in the gym back in the day. Yeah, no, mate, it's good to catch up with you and excited to see what you're doing with yourself and this RDM movement and. Happy to be here, mate. Have a chat.

Definitely, man. And it's good, bro. I mean, well, obviously we're streaming this live as well, and the guys will get a huge amount of value out of this because you know, the value that you've added to your life and those around you, man. But I guess before we dive into footy, your professional career, what we're speaking about recently with how you break your neck and overcoming that fatherhood life today, it'd be awesome, mate. Just to get a bit of background on yourself, Swain, and your upbringing and what got you into footy, you know? So if you'd love to share a bit about your upbringing and where you've come from, mate, it'd be awesome.

Yeah, mate, I grew up in a suburb, a new sort of development near Blacktown called Dean park, which is just out that way now. It's all developed now. It's all houses now, but back in the day, it was just a tiny little suburb. And, yeah, mate, I was late to sport, really. Like, I played a bit of soccer when I was a young kid, then dabbled in a bit of cricket and enjoyed that, but then didn't play rugby league till under 12 and I was in the second side, out on the wings sort of thing. Just a mate of mine from down the road dragged me along. Yeah. But then fell in love with it straight away, type of thing. Jumped in there. First year in, I was here above myself with the kids down the road, and then I jumped back in my own age group. And you Know, and sort of. And family feet a little bit and, and played for, you know, out that way. Westmount. Druitt Raiders they were called, they're now defunct, they're gone now unfortunately. But back in the day, Westbound Druitt Raiders were me Colors and St. Mary's Leaf Club. Had a couple of years out there. Yeah, mate, junior rep footy and things. I, I got hurt in the first 10 minutes of Harold Matthews, which is the first year age group, you know, under 15, I think it was. I played 10 minutes of that and then I actually hurt me back playing cricket when I was 16. So I missed a couple of years of footy through that as well. So I didn't play any junior rep footy really. So I had a bit of a checkered pass as a kid. I sort of enjoyed the game and loved the game and I was always sort of in the mix but just got hurt those couple of crucial times, you know, like got hurt playing cricket. Got stress fractures in my lower back in lumbar region and I just had one specialist say to me, mate, you know, you're too lean and you're never going to put the weight on. You're going to need to play high level footy. So give it away, mate. So I was 16, had all my eggs in the one basket, you know, I was going to play first grade. I loved it and then got that news and it just rocked me and, you know, I had to spend six months in a plastic corset sort of thing to look after me back. Couldn't play any sport in my senior years at school and yeah, spent a good three or four months thinking that was it, you know, I'm just a bit lost and didn't have a good. Yeah, didn't have a good school there.

Yeah, so you're naturally quite lean and I mean you always shredded and had the rig, mate when we had our preseason, but you were naturally quite lean. And then these stress fractures led to, I guess you being told that you'll never be big enough, strong enough to be able to handle it in the arena.

Right? That's exactly what I was told. Yeah, we had a specialist. He actually said the same thing. The same doctor said the same thing to Luke Rooney who went on and played for Australia. So I won't mention the doctor's name, but I think, yeah, he's been shown up a couple of times there. But yeah, mate, he sort of gave me the news and for me it got me training. I think that's where my work ethic was Created like in the backyard gym, just had a bit of a bench press and a chin up bar out in the garage and took those words and you know, and thought, well, it's up to me to try and prove people wrong here. And got in there and just trained absolute house down as a 16 year old like a lunatic.

What was driving that? What was driving that? What was driving that, man? Like, that's a tough, tough news to get, bro. And then looking at what you've achieved, like what was driving you to push and not necessarily prove people wrong, but. Or maybe that was it, I don't know, to get to where you were, mate.

Yeah, I think it was just single mindedness. It was just sort of like one of those things where, you know, I was gung ho, I was gonna do this, you know, as a 15, 16 year old I really enjoyed my footy and wanted to play and wasn't gonna let little setbacks, you know, stop me really. I think, I don't know, I think it was just sort of just as an adolescent teenager, pig headed. I'm just gonna get this done. And enjoyed training, you know, that was always an advantage of mine, like enjoyed the training, enjoyed the process, enjoyed the learning about nutrition and what it takes and the rest in recovery and I enjoyed that at school and in life. So mate, I just, I took it, you know, scruff the neck and ripped in.

That's awesome, man. And when did you get back into footy? Like what was the process there? Like 16, 17, 18. And what did you do from there that got you eventually into having a shot with, with the Panthers?

Mate, I still remember the day ringing the recruitment coach at Penrith, Jimmy Jones is there again now and saying to him, look mate, I'm ready to go. I've got a doctor's clearance, you know, like I'm 18 by this stage I think. So you've got to play the jersey flag competition, which is now. And he said, mole, mate, sorry we're full, you know, like this is November and got our preseason squad. And so I was like, I was devastated. So I went and trained for the Kellyville Bushrangers in the Metro Cup. A mate of mine from school, he was playing there and he said, oh, we'll jump in the car and we'll go down to Kellyville and you can just play Metro cup for a year and you know, as a young bloke and try and get back into it and train the house down sort of thing, train that way. And I don't know what happened, you know, the room, the way I remember it and the way people tell me is one of the guys, you know, he did the wrong thing, got dropped out of the Jersey Fleet squad. I think he got in trouble with the law and he's gone. And they needed an outside back, someone who played center sort of back row.

And that was me.

And so they gave me a call and just. I did the whole preseason at Kellyville thinking, oh well, maybe, you know, the path's not going to be so straight anymore. It's not just going to be junior reps all the way in. I'm going to have to go around the long way. But got the call before the first or second trial in the Jersey Fleet. So I was fit, I was ready to go. I had a great off season with the men. It was probably a good thing for me to train with men in the off season. Steeled me a bit and then got in there and just took it by the scruff of the neck. And then by the end of the year, I'd played half a dozen reserve goat games by the end of that year. So I had a pretty successful comeback.

That's awesome. And you've got a bit of a Chuck Norris there about you. So I'd assume that after the Kellyville preseason you would have made them better men with when you left and as a young bloke. Wow, that's incredible, man. It brings back memories of when I was going through Fleg and it's pretty crazy, isn't it? The stats when you look at it, even from Harold Matz to SG Ball to FLEG to reserve grade mate, what would it be like 1 to 3% come through every year? Like it'd be nuts. It'd be so hard to get up there.

Yeah. And the stats, they sort of give you as. So I've stayed involved rugby league through playing and coaching obviously since then. I haven't stopped since then, but. And the average career, if you get to the top, still 40 games and that's the average, you know, some guys will play half a dozen, some guys will play 300. But even of the small percentage of guys that do make it, sometimes only a couple of games and that's it, you know. So it is, it is really small. It's a competition, isn't it, out there and want to do it. It's a popular sport.

How did it feel going from not knowing where you were to then a preseason with Kellyville to playing half a dozen reserve grade games? What was it like?

I still distinctly remember speaking with my Family about speaking with my mum, actually thinking, I'm so happy, like now that I'm, you know, I'm going to uni and I'm playing reserve grade footy now. Like, this is so good, you know, 12 months ago I didn't know where I was. I think I only just got the clearance from the doctor. That's one of the first things I think, like looking back and when you were asking me what drove me sort of thing, I think little victories like that, it really set myself up, you know, Like I really took, you know, you're 18, you got no brains. But I think I took stock of the achievement of going from not playing anything at all, but thinking that career's over to playing a few reserve grade games and thinking, I still remember the end of the season, the season was over, and thinking, you know, that was pretty cool. I'm pretty proud of myself that, you know, it felt like four year process coming from a kid being hurt a couple of years out, a couple of years in, you know, like. And you know, I was happy where I was there. That was pretty stoked where I was there.

It's a powerful thing, man. Like what you said then I resonated with an old saying. I don't know where it came from, but it's better to be prepared for an opportunity and not have one and have one and not be prepared, right? Like imagine if you didn't do your pre season with Kellyville and you were just slack or and then you got called up to a trial match with Flip, man, you wouldn't have even made the bench if you'd done no preseason.

Or anything, you know. That's exactly right, mate. Yeah. And like I said, I'm so involved in footy and you see kids coaching and the basics are still the basics and the way forward is still the way forward. You know, you can't shirk it. You just gotta get, you know, your shoulder to the wheel and get it done.

You can't cheat it, can you? And it's really funny, the ripple effect too. Like, is it fair to say that this, given what you did and what you went through ultimately in selflessly going from the wing to the forwards, gave Rooney the opportunity to play for Australia.

Is that exactly what I was about to say, actually. So Rooney, if you're listening, mate, Rune's watching this, mate.

Only reason he played for Australia, because Swaney let you mate. Oh man, hilarious. So what? So from there, man, let's move into what happened. Then next year you're with preseason with first grade, like, how'd you get. How did you get up in and.

Get your shot, mate? I think I was, you know, like a lot of things, I was really lucky in some ways. John Lang was the coach at the time. He'd set the structure up that you train in the morning, guys have the opportunity to go and work and then come back and they train in the afternoon. That was a full time squad, which is still a little bit old school for the time for the early 2000s. But it worked in my advantage because I was going to university. I still had to work. Obviously back in the day there was no minimum contract like there is today. It was, you know, you had to graft a little bit. So I spent a couple of years. I played the whole reserve grade season the next year and then the year after coming in 2003, I was able to train in the morning with first graders, you know, in the gym and then in the afternoons I got invited a couple of times to be able to train in the afternoon. So that circumstance really, really helped me and I just went and worked. Worked at the local gym in the leisure centre. Did me uni as well, Got the footy done as well and just busted myself, basically. I look back at it now, you think where did you sleep and where did you get it done? But it's what I had to do.

Was it that set up when I started coming through as well? The big complex for the gym and out the back. Man, that was good. That was a good setup.

That's awesome.

Would you got Potsy. Potsy commenting, mate. Swain dog legend.

Potsy McLane, my man. Well, listen, he was my bigger brother. I feel like Potsy was my weights partner when I was a young bloke. Shout out to Potts, mate. Yeah, and he's the strongest little man alive too. I could never keep up with him. I was always chasing him in the gym. So that made me train harder.

He was a beast, man. I think he was the captain when I came through and got a couple of shots in reserve grade when I was in Jersey flag.

It was awesome. Top bloke.

Unreal, mate. And then your first first grade game. Surely you remember when, who it is against? What was it like? Tell us.

Freezing cold Saturday night down at Penrith Park. He played Canberra Raiders. And I'm sitting on the bench, as you can imagine. I'll get on. It's about we're winning, we're flogging them sort of thing.

Because you're there naturally.

Because of course I'm there. No, actually, because I was on the bench and they come back and beat us. We're up by 20 points or something like that, and they come back and beat us. And I'm that typical debutante, you know, I'm sitting in the sheds after the game, smile, trying to hide my smile, ear to ear. Because I've just played first grade. We've just been mowed down by 28 points ahead or something silly like that. But I was stoked, you know, because I played first grade sort of thing. But all my mates were there and family was there. So, yeah, round four in 2003, it was unreal.

So I didn't actually realize that. So you debuted the year that you guys won the Premiership?

Yeah. Yeah, mate. And for me, another testament to John Lang as a coach. He was the sort of coach that he picked and sticked, you know, we didn't have any injuries that year. Rode the bench the whole way, you know, I was just old number 17 the whole year pretty much. But, yeah, that's another thing. Under John Lange, I got that chance to stick around.

Yeah, I was with Lange at Souths for a little bit in my last year, and even when I came through in 05, 05 is when I started, he always seemed like he's straight down the line with me as well. Always respected that. But I remember looking up some stats, I think, yeah, it was only did maybe like 21 or 23 guys play that year. Like, it was. It was very, like, tight. You know, you see some teams that they go through, 36 blokes in a year, you know, but it was almost like it was the same team every single week.

Man, with you guys, it was awesome. It was good. Yeah, great. Dave McClane, he played one game in that. There's a photo of us all at the end of the year. Yeah, we've got individual shot and there's not many players. And that's a bit of a. A bit of a stat that comes out of the Grand Final winners. If you see they don't use too many players. And like you said, like, you just keep combinations. Preston Campbell, Reece Wesa, Craig Gower, Luke Priddis. You keep all those guys together for a few games in a row, they're going to start running amok, you know, and they did.

You know what? It really showed me in a different way, I guess, coming in. Even though I grew up out of Penrith, coming in and getting the chance by mistake, I turned up on the wrong day and got to train with you guys in first grade. When Matty Elliott was there as the coach. And it's good crew like Pulla, Tour boys, Jolly Clinton, Waterhouse. It was very tight crew. I could feel that right away, which no disrespect to when I moved on from the Dragons, but chalk and cheese, man, absolute chalk and cheese in the energy through the connectedness, you know, it was very interesting.

Yeah, it was awesome.

Yeah, it's. I'm sure you've gone through and lived through it a few times, man, but what was it like? You know, the gf, the lead up, the game itself and then ultimately, I guess the pinnacle of winning it.

Yeah, it's a good week growing up, you know, like, I'm just sort of stars in my eyes, kid. I was 21 at the time. I think I was. Yeah. Just soaking it all in and appreciating it. I've still got Ryan Girdler, his words ringing in my ear saying, boys, you make sure you appreciate this, you know, because he hadn't played finals and things like that for a long, long time. And then he's part of it finally towards the end of his career. And I can still remember thinking, yeah, mate, it's pretty good and we appreciate it. Yeah, we really do. But actually, like moving forward, I didn't play another semi final or grand final in the NRL or the Super League again. So that was my only sort of taste of finals. Looking back, I really, really appreciate it, what it was. But just the week was fantastic.

Great week.

Build up to the week. Yeah. And the game, just electric. I'll never forget that feeling of running out and the ground's just shaking and just that amount of nervous energy, but just good nervous energy, you know, like really just sort of. It's a high, you know, it's only surpassed by your kids and marrying your missus and things like that, you know, all the life stuff. But. And this podcast there, mate, it was fantastic. I actually got knocked out. Knocked senseless. There's no hia back in the day. So second. Second half, I was a bit in Disneyland a little bit, so I had to watch the video for the second half. But we won.

Mate. It's one of the best grand finals I think I've ever seen. Not because the Panthers won, obviously. Team I go for still remember tina turner, mate. 91 grand finals. Penny panthers, they go six. You're right. It was just electric. It was crazy. And then, yeah, east versus west, everything, it really was set. It was a stage that I. I don't know if I've seen. I'm sure there's been some massive. I mean, shit, it was 17 years ago now, wasn't it? Or 16. Yeah, crazy, man. Goes fast. It's still a moment, though. That's the funny thing I find with anything that I've done, whether it is through footy, your children being born, marriage, anything, it's still just a moment, isn't it? My Inwood, what do you think it is that defines you as a man? In appreciation of that, but also in moving forward and creating new things in your life? Is it that moment or is it all the work that you've done? Like, Jesus, man, you must have been hooking in. And you guys as a whole working hard, entire year, like, it's a brutal sport. 24, 26 games and finals and the.

GF, like, it might definitely, like you said, it's a momentum that you build as a team and the hard work you put in together. Because like I said, going moving forward and not having that feeling in it and not making those finals again and not being part of a team that did that again. They made it in the 04 grand final. They made the 04 major semi final, but I wasn't part of it. I was injured at the time, but moving forward the rest of my career, when you don't have that feeling in a team, it makes you look back and think, jeez, that was something special that we had. And it wasn't, you know, under John Lang's coaching style. It wasn't anything complicated. It wasn't. It was. It was simple, but it wasn't easy. You know what I mean? It was just so straight up and down. Like you said, he was a straight shooter and he got guys working in unison, really, because we had different groups and socially it wasn't, you know, there was a couple of different groups, but everyone got along, everyone respected each other, and we worked together as a team. So, like that something you can't create, as you know, Red, you know, as you know, you know, through what you're doing, especially, you know, and I hear the messages you're putting forward and it's just the words couldn't be truer that the momentum that you build, the teamwork, the environment that you're creating leads to special things. And that for me, that 03 Panthers team was the epitome of that. That was just encapsulated everything that you needed.

It's incredible, man. I couldn't imagine. I mean, I'm sure I've had bouts of it in my own way, whether it's my Tight knit family with things like what you said, the pinnacle of being a father and childbirth. But I was getting the ripple effect of that in 05, man. Two years later I was coming into that and there's still a large portion, I think sats might have been done gerds. There's still a fair portion of guys though, and I could feel that. It's an incredible thing. It really makes you value what you said as well then. The power of environment and energy, mate.

Yeah, definitely, yeah. That's what creates you on the field, off the field, doesn't it? As mate, you're trying to create with the fellows there.

Thanks, mate. And I know you mentioned it before we started this, mate, talk to us, what happened? 4 dislocated, broken neck, Dislocated neck, Dislocated me neck, yeah.

Wasn't even on the field. It was an off the field injury. Just with me mates, being a young bloke having a good time out on the tiles, you know, come home and mucking around, you know, just wrestling around with a mate and doing what you always do with a teammate and then, yeah, give yourself a mishap, just the coat of your neck, you know, like, and just everything just fell apart then really, like, you know, injured first thing, you just didn't think about footy. You think about your life, you think about, you know, I was nearly, I was nearly a quadriplegic. I was like 2 mil off. They said being a quadriplegic only have me delt muscle, you know. So, yeah, from the highest of highs and you're flying as a young bloke and just to have it all crashing down around you, yeah, it sucked and it was a big hit to the system. You know, moving forward, it defines you. And how I came back from, how I was able to sort of recover from that, I was really lucky in that, you know, like I said, there's only two meals off but they're able to operate and you know, I slowly regained my strength and stuff like that. It was all unknown when I first did it. They pretty much said, well, we don't know how you're going to recover from this. But luckily, you know, touch wood, I got through it and just went back to the, back to the grind. You know, I used my experience from being hurt as a teenager. I was like, well, here we go again. You know, I've done this before and you know, build off the momentum of what I'd done before and take the, you know, massive self doubt and massive, like just being down on myself. About what happened and what I'd created and what had gone on. But, you know, that little glimmer of what happened as a teenager, you know, I really use the confidence I built there to take on another challenge.

It's funny too. Like you hear terms like muscle memory and that sort of stuff and literally the consciousness of the cells in our body. Like, it's like you said, you get down, you get back into work. That's. I wouldn't say that's what saved you, but it's got to be a large portion to it, man. Like, like you said, like what would be going through your head at that time? What would you be thinking? How would the body respond? How would it come to building muscle and building the neural pathways again, like no normal person who did nothing and had that injury, I believe would have been able to come through, not just physically, but mentally, to be able to overcome that, man, that's a big thing.

Yeah, I'm sure there's bigger problems out there and I always feel like sports, sort of a, you know, sports injuries are a first world problem. But you know, in saying that, you know, it was something that, yeah, like I said, just went back to what you know and take confidence out of what you can do and what you have done and just try and do it again.

It's interesting as well though, because you're talking about being at the high. If someone's born paralyzed, right. They'd never know what the feeling is. That was the hardest thing for me going through the ops that I had. And I never had neck or back issues, but having nine operations, it was such another end of the extreme because like yourself, we're so used to being the pinnacle up the top with any given sport. You're an elite athlete, you can move your body. Maybe except for darts, who knows. I was going to say ping pong, but they look like they're pretty fast and some crazy fast twitch muscle fibers. It's almost harder sometimes, isn't it, mate? When you get such a high thing taken away from you and you've got to build up from the ground again.

Yeah, well, that's your identity, isn't it? I suppose. And it's a good level and it's a good humbling experience to be able to. When your body's not there and your body's not where it needs to be, where you want it to be, to go internal and, and it develops you in other ways, in so many other ways, you know, there's so much more to life.

It's incredible you bounce back, man. Where did you end up? So what ended up happening throughout the rest of your career? Like how many games did you end up playing, where did you finish up and whatnot?

I had the four seasons at Penrith, played 70 odd games there, went to the Gold coast for a couple of years. Their first years into the comp, played a couple of games, years at the Goldie which is fantastic. Moved over to Salford, went to the Salford Reds based in Manchester. The UK Super League, couple of good fun years over there with the wife and small boy. Then three years in France which is only ever supposed to be 8 month sort of holiday on the end of my UK experience, moved to a little town called Carcassonne and just fell in love and just said wow, you know, like, you know, rugby league's a third string sport over there and it's a minnow sport but I could scratch it out full time and enjoy myself over there and see the world and you know, why wait till I think of myself? Why wait till we're 65 and too old to get around when we can? We've got a chance here in our prime to get around, you know, push young bloke around in the stroller over the cobblestones in Rome and stuff like that. Yeah, we had three good years there.

In.

In France, two at Carcassonne and one at the Catalan's reserve grade side. UTC they were called. So captain coach there and had a great time. Had an absolute ball before we had to come home. Join reality.

Yeah, it's awesome man. Would have been a good experience. And what was it like playing over.

There as well over there in France, mate? Awesome. Just because it was sort of like, you know, you go over there and you'll be sort of the, the overseas players, only three or four blokes per team and you know, like I said, I sort of captain coached in the sides I played in. So it was really good. Learn the language and learn the customs and because my wife and I had a go and you know, try to immerse ourselves in the culture. You get invited to go, you know, like mushroom picking and pig shooting and all the stuff that they do over there and ski holidays and stuff. So mate, yeah, really great experience. It's awesome.

That's unreal, bro. And here we are, mate. You got two kids now?

Yeah, two boys. Yep, yep. How old are they? 12 year old Lachlan and a 6 year old.

What's it like mate? Fatherhood.

Yeah, I love it, I love it. We had Lachlan you know, we were young, we were on the Gold coast when Lachlan was born on the Gold Coast. So pains me to say he was born in Queensland Hospital, but he'll never follow the roans. But we took him around with us, you know, like we took him to England, we took him to France and obviously there's no family, there's not a huge support structure over there. So he's coming for the ride. If we're going out for dinner, he's coming. And yeah, he took, you know, we took him around and I just love the experience that we could share with him. You know, playing football over there, you sort of, you've got free time on your hands and you get a day off per week and things like that. You get to travel around. So it's been a great experience. Fatherhood. I've loved every second of it, you know, like really lucky. And I really appreciate, now that I've come home to the real world and work a real job, you know, work friggin big hours and things like that. You know, the time that I had with Lachlan, my first one, especially when.

He was little, it was invaluable and it is Val. It's funny, like my little one, Lillian, she just turned one and far out. It goes quick, man, it goes so quick. You know, whether you got a 20 year old or a 1 year old, it's just, it's unreal how fast it seems to go. And I feel like children really showcase that they bring the big mirror up in front of us. What's one of the hardest things about being a dad? We'll have a lot of dads who will watch this and listen to this and yeah, one of the biggest challenges or hard things that you find is it energy levels, trying to be a role model, turning up. What are some things you find that can be tough when we wear all these hats, man, you know, like you said with work and everything else.

Yeah, for myself, I suppose you always just, you want to sort of make sure that he's got everything that he needs to be set up. Both boys, you know, like I really want to. You want to be there to provide for him, don't you? And that's the challenge, isn't it? Like as, you know, like when guys come out of football, you know, you spent 10, 15 years away from any trade, away from developing a career outside of being an athlete sort of thing. I'd gone through uni and I did my bachelor's of exercise and sports science and I've done My masters of exercise physiology and so I scratched that out during my career. So a bit of a start on what I'm going to do. But, you know, as you come out of football, you've got to get straight back into it. You're 30 odd and you got to get your career developed and rolling. You know, blokes have had 15 years ahead of you in the chosen field, which they can continue to do. But you can't continue your sport, your career anymore. You have to move forward. So going through that transition and making sure that be a good role model for my young bloke and provide what he needs, what he needs to get through, that's a bit of a pressure there, I suppose. And that's the pressure I feel as a father.

Yeah. On the same end, like with another one on the way. I find it's a good pressure. If you've worked on yourself, because I'm working on myself, it's the greatest investment that we can have. I'm working on myself being a best I can be, regardless what industry or job or career or anything I have or do. It's almost that level of inner certainty and belief and like you said, you want to provide. But when we found out, because we did IVF for our first two and this one was natural and when I found out, I was just like fucking. All the more reason, right? Yeah, well, finally, all the more reason, right, to win or to succeed. Because the little eyes are watching and observing and seeing and it's crazy, man, when we look at something, because I grew up wanting to play first grade, I wanted to play footy, I wanted to do this and that and that. And even if you had a long and glamorous career at 36 or 38, there's so much life left, isn't there? It's insane. But we don't see it at the time so much more.

No, definitely. Yeah, definitely, mate. Yeah. I'm a few years retired now, so, yeah, enjoying the challenge of, you know, developing yourself and developing career in another chosen field stuff.

And you reckon you get the young blokes, like, are they playing footy? You think you'll get them into it a bit or what's getting into anything in particular?

Yeah, my oldest boy, he's. He couldn't play. He doesn't want to play rugby league at all. He's not a contact sport kind of kid. He's a fantastic boy. You know, he's bright and he's active and he loves drama and things like that. Actually. He loves sticks and Dirt. Getting out and filming documentaries, you know, that's his go. So he's that way. And the little one that they're talking to, the little one's a lunatic. He's a bull. He's a tearaway and he runs. He's playing soccer at the moment, but I think he'll play footy and yeah, he loves it. He'll train with dumbbells out the back and he'll do ninja warrior courses and things like that. So they're chalking cheese. I think he's my shot at the as an all player.

Yes. Well, you said you were playing cricket, didn't you? Like I grew up playing soccer and cricket. Had one shot of footy at under 13s and then didn't play against when I was 19. And it's. I thought it was really good, a good base cricket. Cricket takes a lot out of the day though. I don't know how dad did it with four boys. It's a long time, man. Corinne's already told me, she's like, they're not doing cricket. If we have a boy, he's not doing cricket.

I just made a cricket comeback actually. We actually won the comp in Old Man Cricket. Fourth grade, fourth grade for Camden Ramsey. We play fourth grade park cricket down here just for a laugh and a good time. Yeah, it's been awesome.

Well, good hand eye, isn't it? Really good hand eye coordination.

Just a bit of a good laugh.

Yeah. What's on the horizons, man? Look, anything in particular? I know you've got a very extensive background in life experience and in studies with health, wellness training, exercise performance, the human body, anything sort of scratch your interest or sort of spark where you want to move to, into the next, the next phase as the kids get older and for yourself, mate, personally and professionally.

Yeah, mate, give me a size physiologist accreditation, you know, so really, really keen to explore options that way as well. You know, at the moment I'm working for a non for profit, the Clontar Foundation. We're working with young indigenous boys and working with those kids, get them through their education and you know, through a variety of different activities, so camps and sporting events and trainings and after school activities, lifestyle sort of skills. Doing that as well with exercise physiology, mate, I really look into to keep that work, that men's health, you know, is what I've always sort of been keen to explore and work inside, you know, getting blokes active because like, if you can just see what we count as normal these days, it's Unhealthy, isn't it? Like the Make Healthy Normal campaign of New South Wales government. I love that. You know, it's a great message because at the moment it's not working and we're getting sicker as a society and to sit back and watch it and just think, wow, this could be so much better. We're doing things the hard way. Yeah. Looking forward to really trying to get in there and shake that up a little bit.

Definitely, man. And look, much, much love and respect for women out there. They're leaders in their own right as mothers are too. But a lot of men and fathers I think are misguided or misled, mate, like you speaking about then health and wellness. It's very interesting. A lot of men out there, a lot of fathers out there might be struggling. What are some things like even mindset, pieces of advice made or takeaways or life lessons or learnings that have worked and helped you over the years that you think would help and add value to their life? Because there's a lot of them who may be struggling, man. They may not have the scope of mindset or the ability to get out there and get it done. Are there things like, I don't know if it's mantras or just practices or things that have worked for you over the years that you'd like to share or pass on or pieces of advice?

Yeah, I think just, I've never been. Don't be ashamed of being an individual, you know, like the Australian culture and you know, what I grew up in and, you know, that real working class sort of just bite your lip and just keep pushing forward, you know, like, don't talk about your problems and that sort of stuff. I think even if you, you know, you're not a really expressive sort of person and seeking help all the time, but just live and examine life. I think, I think if you can just be man enough to think about your perceptions and how you're portraying yourself and what you want out of life and what you think a good life is, don't be afraid to go and pursue that, you know what I mean? Thinking that you have to have a beer with boys all the time or, you know, you have to be that hard ass sort of bloke, you don't have to be. You can live a healthy life. You can take the time to eat healthy and think about, you know, your perceptions and how you can, you know, be a better man within yourself, you know, like. And yeah, live an examined life. It's something I've really Looked at for the last few years, you know, reading as much, many more books than ever had before in the past and, you know, and seeking knowledge, really, on, you know, other ways to live and how you can be the best you can be.

Really love it, man. Big takeaway I got from that was limiting beliefs. Like you said, explore. Explore yourself and look at what you do want to have and have a crack at and build a perspective around that, right? Instead of all the bullshit going on in the world at the moment and living in a life of negativity or fear, like, what would you say before it's become the new norm, right? Like, just, this is the new healthy, crazy man. Like, some guys jokingly celebrate the dad bod. And I don't care how much weight fathers have. If you're happy with that, awesome, good for you. But reality is, from the sheer physics and physiology, if you're 20, 30, 40 kilos overweight, obviously not going to be able to express the same amount of energy as what you would ideally normally be, right?

Yeah, yeah.

But, yeah, Trent Waterhouse said, we're scraping the bottom of the barrel, mate. So I said, I can go lower. I'll call him soon. But look, it's been awesome having you on today, Swaney. I know we keep in touch, bits and pieces here and there, but loved having you on and sharing your story and where you've been and where you're heading, man, it's unreal. And I'm sure we'll be doing some things together moving forward, for sure. Do you keep in touch with any of the other boys you used to play with or any of the fellas from the old crew?

Trent Waterhouse gives me a hard time. Every now and then. You get on a few group chats and stuff like that and just touch base with everyone. It's one of those things, isn't it? Once you're part of something special, you can sort of. You can just touch base every now and then and still have that bond with people, even though you're not seeing them day to day, still always have that bond. So, you know, and that's just not the A3 team. That's blokes you play with throughout your whole career. So blokes like that, yeah, definitely stay in touch.

Very true, man. We've got a handful of school friends and that's it. Keep in touch with them once every six to 12 months and guys like yourself. But if it's true and genuine, it's like yesterday, right? Which is pretty cool. We're all busy Aren't we? We've all got our lives to live, man.

It's insane. Awesome.

Well, look, thanks again for jumping on today, mate, and really appreciate your time and the value of added. I hope you guys have gotten a lot out of this. Is there anything else you wanted to share, mate, or passing. Passing words of wisdom?

No, mate, not much for me. Like I said, like, Trent Waterhouse reckons we're scrapping the bottle of the barrel. But no, mate, just really happy to be part of it, man, and to get a chance to have a chat with you and support you in what you're doing, mate. What you're doing is fantastic. And I wish you all the success in how real dad Movement pushes forward because it's a great cause and, you know, it's something that, like, you know when you say things like you want to change the world and that sort of stuff and change Australian society, like. And I believe it because you're passionate what you do and kicking goals, mate, so keep pushing hard.

Thanks, brother. Appreciate it. And it's crazy. I'd rather shoot for that and hit here, you know, instead of just shooting for somewhere and actually reaching it. You know, it might be delusional optimism, who knows, mate? But it's something where I always ask the dads in our group, I spoke about attention the other day because that's very important focus, especially in these times. But also, what's the alternative? What's alright, you pull back, you give in, you give up, you settle in life, you're unhappy, you suppress, you reserve yourself, your energy, you don't have a crack. Like, how do you think anyone else could believe in you if you don't believe in yourself? It just doesn't make sense to me, man, you know? But that's why we're here, right, to try and help shift that. And yeah, I remember Trent Waterhouse and Jolie Clinton used to be like, lovers quarrels all the time. We might have to get them on as a duet next time. But look, it's been awesome having you on, Swaney. Thanks again for joining us, bro. Thanks for joining us, guys. Hope you got a lot of value out of this and appreciated, you know, the time that we've spent with Swaney. He's a legend of a bloke, there's no denying that. And it's been awesome having you on, brother. So I appreciate it and take care, guys. Hope you enjoy this and we'll see you soon on the next one.