44. The Viking Of Vikings

Welcome, guys, to another episode of Real Dad. Movement. Got a phenomenal guest who. Yeah, just speaking earlier. It is like a bit of a Forrest Gump story. Jeez, you got some amazing stories, mate. And I think we're gonna have to create a series out of this. Jenno, what do you think?

Well, it sounds like a great idea to me. You should never let the truth get in the way of a good story, mate, should you?

This is the beauty, Mike. They're truths and stories. But to incredible. But look, thanks. Thanks for giving us your time today, mate. I really appreciate it. Even for me, for a selfish point of view, it's amazing to be able to catch up with you and touch base and wanted to for a long time. It's been a long time. We first connected. 05. 06, was it when. Yeah, it's.

Time really flies by, Alex. Yeah, it does.

Amazing. But look, what I'd love to start with, mate, is obviously we'll dive into your story and you've got some amazing value that you can give that a lot of fathers listening to this can take on board in their own lives, whether it's to do with fatherhood or themselves as men wearing the hat of fatherhood, as we all do. Mate, New Zealand bravery medal. Talk to us. Let's start there.

What happened? Well, look, after finishing my year with the Crusaders, I was brought back into rugby league at the Warriors. And this is a pivotal part in my life, really. It's a huge turning point in my life because at that point, probably at the end of probably 18 years building my career and spending a lot of that 18 years at the highest level within sport, professional sport, I felt like that was probably the highest point of my career and that was to be head of athletic development at the Warriors. I could recruit my own staff, built my own high performance centre. It was a strength and conditioning coach's dream. You know, we had two very, very wealthy owners, gave me an open checkbook, so, you know, open slather. How good's that as an S and C coach, you know. So it was a really exciting time. I'd spent a year at the Crusaders just after the earthquakes, which was quite traumatic. And just previous to that, leaving the Panthers after five years. So it was good to get to the Warriors. I felt like it was a great opportunity to actually maybe change the culture, improve the culture and do something really special with all the experience behind me. So everything was great. Life was great, highly paid, lived in a fantastic area. You know, two weeks into the job, I didn't know My next door neighbor, we lived in quite a nice area because I was getting paid quite well at the time. And about 7 o' clock at night, we had this huge explosion. So my next door neighbour, we found out later that she'd filled her house full of gas containers, petrol containers, and decided to take her own life, which is sad in itself. And when we talk about, you know, mental issues, and it's good talking about, I suppose, the positive side of this story, but there's obviously a victim there as well. So with all due respect to the lady, and I'm not gonna blow this medal all out of proportion with my ego, because it's a pretty serious subject because we know there's a lot of people out there suffering with mental health. So this is the extreme side of mental health. Obviously, you know, she felt the only way out for her was to do something so dramatic, which it was. So, look, there's a giant explosion. This is the old image versus identity, which we can talk about a little bit later. So, you know, my image, Alex, my image is the Viking. 10 foot tall and bulletproof. Sometimes you can get mixed up with your identity and your image, you know, so it's in your character, I suppose. I got out the house, ran down the stairs trying to put my shoes on. We had a bit of a. We had quite a bit. Big, steep hill from the house where I was. And as I was. It slowed me down a little bit. It was a good job because as I turned the corner, the whole front of the house blew off, which would have killed me instantly anyhow. So I was quite lucky there. But ultimately she was screaming, obviously, because, you know, she's obviously in the fire because she poured petrol onto herself as well. So, okay, I went into this inferno. It wasn't. It wasn't. I suppose a normal house fire is bad enough, but this is like an inferno. So, look, ultimately I went in. I was very lucky. I got the lady out. Very traumatic. You know, when we talk about being fathers and dads and husbands, the thing that really affected me was obviously my wife Sharon. She ran out with me and, you know, she was screaming. She knew what I was gonna do. She knows me. You know me, Alex, I'm going in. You know, the street's full of people, people running. The way I'm going, Jenna's going in. You know, so, you know, she knew exactly what I wanted to do. So she was screaming at me not to go in. Then she was screaming so hard and she was panicking so much. There's nothing coming out so no voice coming out. And I can remember it's already this thing used to play on my mind quite a lot. So I actually took a last look, a last glimpse just before I went into the flames. I stopped, turned around and just took that last glimpse. Because I think deep down I thought well this is it, I'm not going to see her again. And my last view of Sharon was just looking at me in complete terror like trying scream and nothing coming out. So that played on my mind quite a lot after it because as you know Alex, you know I love my family, I've always supported my family. You know, there was been priority in my life. So why, why risk all that? Why leave my wife behind? Why leave my son behind, my daughter behind? You know, again that really played on my mind after the event. So the event happened pretty quickly. We got the lady out who was badly burned. Very traumatic things happen. You have a statement to the police actual fact the following morning I actually got up at five o' clock in the morning to train the boys. We took them to the sand dunes and I can remember I just got up as normal, went across, drove across the sand dunes, trained the warriors on the sand dunes. And I was talking to the head coach at the time, Matthew Elliott. Oh yeah, there was a house fire next door to me last night. I put this lady out, blah blah blah. And I was coughing obviously I was coughing a little bit because I'd been inhaling small but I didn't really have any. There's no. I had a bit of redness to my body but the heat was so intense in the house. It just, you know, when we came back he actually drove back and went past the house and by that time the police had called the area off because they'd been what they thought explosives in the house because it wasn't. It was his house in front of blowing up. So it was always cordoned off. And he said holy hell General, what the hell, this is the house. What's going on? You know, he couldn't believe it anyhow so I went in. The police asked me to go and make a statement because obviously the anti terrorist squad was there and you know, because they thought it was an explosion of some description. And I gave my statement for which eventually obviously goes through the process, you know the police recommend you then it goes obviously through the process till it comes to the Queen and she felt it where they to receive the New Zealand Bravery medal which is a, which is a great honor, you know, it's a great honor and you know, I received that from my family more than anything because I came out the fire a completely and utterly different human being. You know. You know how I was, Alex. I was like larger than life. That was my image, you know. But I left something in that fire. So from being. Before I went in that fire, I was completely focused on my career. I dragged my family around the world and they'd supported me. You know, coming from Bradford in the UK to Canberra. Kids were only 11 years old. Schooling in Canberra was fantastic for the kids. So we knew we'd made the right decision. Wife made new friends and we moved to Penrith, had to make new friends, got a new school system, New South Wales system, then I go to New Zealand. It was great for me because I was at the Crusaders and we had 15 All Blacks in the team, some legendary players. So that was so inspirational for me. But my wife couldn't come because just after the earthquake, there's nowhere to live, really. So separate from my family again. Then, you know, then go to New Zealand. It's just. It was just. I think I came to a realization after time that I just wasn't happy doing what I was doing anymore. You know, I was in the job that I'd spent 20 years getting to, you know, really highly paid, dream job in the profession that I'd sacrificed everything for. And I just wasn't happy. I just wasn't happy. It wasn't. And I really believed. I'm not. I'm not a religious personality, but I'm very spiritual. And I really believed that I survived that event for something. And it wasn't to work in elite professional sport anymore, even though in my profession that's probably the dream scenario. So that played on my mind for two years. I wasn't myself. I didn't feel myself. I didn't coach my best. Was it post traumatic distress? I don't think so. I don't think so. I'm not too sure. But after two years of being completely unhappy, I came home, which is Sydney. And that was a massive turning point in my life, that fire. And I felt like I'd survived for a reason. And the reason was to give back, which I've set up a business now where I do generally give back to the community through young people.

Yeah, that's amazing, isn't it? It's funny how, yeah, that image being larger than life and what you were saying, the image versus identity, but it's only a collective of the two that's pulled you into a position of where you are now. Which is what we spoke about that the Super 6, that's an amazing thing that you're doing. But yeah, it's, it's really funny, isn't it, mate? Because at the crux and core of who you are is probably what dictates those split second decisions. Yeah, isn't it?

Well, it is. But you know, you know the really funny thing about it, Alex? It's not a funny thing. It's pretty serious thing. Is it? One of the things I learned when I was at the Crusaders was the point of difference with the All Blacks. So they can control pressure through breath and just conditioning their state of mind or their state. And there was an amazing sport. So the all black sports psychologist, a guy called Kerry Evans, he actually worked with the Crusaders and he's a psychiatrist, he's probably the best in the world. And he taught me how to deal with pressure. Obviously he was part of the coaching staff. So we used to go through all this thing. It's through breath, through scanning with the eyes. So under extreme pressure, obviously the blood goes back to the limbic part of the brain, which is just fight or flight. Usually in sport we see that, we see that where athletes shut down, they either get aggressive, passive or scared mentality. Understanding how you're hardwired is a really powerful thing. Understanding that you don't need a thousand hours of therapy to get over it. You just probably need about two minutes of explaining what's going on with the biology of the brain and how you can actually affect the biology of the brain just through breath, scanning with the eyes and being dexterous, which actually tells the brain there isn't a threat. So the brain oxygenates itself. So I went through all this process with the genius Kerry Evans. It was quite, it was a really strange thing. So the fire happened, which was for me, as a human being, that was my greatest threat, that, you know, I was gonna die. You know, this is it, you're facing death, you know, so it's probably greater than that. So anyhow, when I got to the Warriors, I was talking to the coaching staff and the management team said, look, we got to get this guy, Kerry Evans in. Dead set. This guy is brilliant. If anybody can change the mentality of the dynamics of this team, it's this guy. So obviously in New Zealand, anybody that's working with the All Blacks is pretty well respected. So to cut long story short, we actually got Kerry in. Before Kerry was allowed to speak to the, the players, we had him to speak to the owner and obviously the management team obviously I'd got him there, so I was under a bit of pressure and the I don't like this guy. So we went out, he did his normal presentation. This was probably a year after the event, after the fire. So I was sat there and he started doing his talk about, you know, obviously throughout breath, what's going on with the brain, if you learn to control it, it will slow the situation down. Instead of making harsh decisions, you can make accurate decisions. I'm thinking I literally had a chill all over my body and I had to stop it. Said, kerry, you got to stop right now. And I explained to him, did you hear about the fire? So I said, no, I didn't. I told him about it and then I told him how I, what I actually did. Because I realized what I did before I went in, which was to do all those techniques subconsciously, you know, scanning with the eyes, not closing down, breathing, staying calm. And I was completely calm when I went in. Obviously in that calmness and the ability to actually make decisions quickly, accurately, you know, I might not be on the playing field making a decision, but that's what saved my life. Dead set. Without question. If I didn't have that knowledge, I would have died because I would have still gone in. Because under pressure I'm aggressive, so I'll attack under pressure. So the fire was the threat and I attacked it. The majority of the people in the street, it was either escape or freeze. It was either running away or just standing frozen. Yeah. Which is, that doesn't make them weak, it doesn't make me strong. That's just how I'm hardwired. But the ability to actually control my limbic part of the brain, to oxygenate the decision making part of the brain, the dexterity and the vision and everything else definitely saved my life. So there was a couple of things there that I realized could really help young people, which was actually teaching them how to breathe correctly, about these high performance processes used by the world's greatest team. And so my young athletes learn these things. Yeah, it helps them with the sport, but more importantly it helps them under pressure at school. They're getting bullied in life. So, you know, my program is not a psychological program, but it's about developing athletes physically and emotionally. And I know that stuff really helps them. Yeah.

As it would mate like that. These are phenomenal skill sets and tools that you wouldn't see in schools. And I'm not here to my wife's primary teacher. I'm not here to hack on the system. But the reality is Looking inside of our lives and what's actually practical and what can help us move forward as human beings and evolve and be the best we can be. What you just mentioned is an amazing thing that everyone should be doing or at least be aware of and see how that could fit into their life. And I mean, that's a real. For me and a lot of people listening to this might not completely understand, but that's a real high end thing which has obviously been built off the back of a huge career. Dating all the way back to when you were young, mate.

18, 30. No, no, no.

All the way when you were young. Getting into. Yeah, like because you've had bronchiolitis several times, I think you're single. Bronchitis and getting into sport and actually, would you mind sharing a bit of that as well, mate? Like you've been in physical health and fitness, seeing the benefits of both, how it helps the mind and the body for, well, how long now, mate? Many decades. Yeah, yeah.

I suppose I've been pivotal in professional sport in a lot of respects, you know, but about my background, the main thing, when I look back, the main thing about my life is that I had an amazing role model in my father who still is. He's 85 and still training, you know, so, you know, but he is right on. My life has been a great male role model, a mentor.

Yeah.

You know, so that in itself tells me that, you know, somebody that's a, A good mentor can, you know, ultimately and a good male figure in your life can actually help you mold you to who you are moving forward. So my earliest memory, to be honest, Alex, and it must be when I was very, very young, so 18 months. I don't know how far you go, but was what seen my dad doing, I can see in my mind's eye now, doing push ups. He'd made these two stools with red leather tops and he was doing like really deep push ups on them, you know, and his vest and that, you know, and that's my earliest memory. My dad was one of the original bodybuilders. So he was in the Health and Strength magazine. He competed at the same time as Reg Parks and all these type of people. He had 20 in jams, you know, he was an amazing. But you know, back in the day he was. He wouldn't, didn't have trainers or anything like that. So he was a training normal, going out shoes. He wouldn't wear a T shirt or anything like that because people saw him as a freak. Because back in the day it was like, really unique. I mean, there's millions of healthy, fit genetic freaks out there now, isn't there? It's part of our modern world, isn't it? But back in the day, no. So when he did his national service, and it's quite funny when you see the old photographs, the old black and white photographs, he was in the Air Force and there wasn't a uniform in the Air Force that would fit him in the whole of the Royal Air Force. So he's there, they're all there. And he's got like a boiler suit on. He's got like a big boiler suit, his, you know, his belt on, because he still had quite a thin waist and a cap. So he's got off and he's there in his boiler suit. So, you know, it was a bit of a. But the one thing that he did, Alex, he's probably one of the first generation to actually be healthy, so God loved them. My dad talks about this all the time. So my dad grafted. So his first job was breaking cast iron in a place called Reckitts Blue, which used to make asbestos, for God's sake. So he learned his apprenticeship on steam engines. He goes back a long time. But the one thing he did was train. He didn't know why. There was a couple of guys that trained back in Hull, lifted weights and did weight training, did bodybuilding, and he ate the right types of food. He ate salads and chickens and drank milk. He used to go to the gym and take a crate of milk and a crate of oranges and they didn't leave the gym until they drank all the milk and eaten all the oranges. But the thing is that he's always eating healthy. He's always trained hard, always. He's 85 and he's still training hard, you know, and he's in great shape. He's beaten cancer, he's had a stroke. When he was over in Australia, he beat a stroke, he beat cancer. And he's 85, wants to live forever, I think. But ultimately he's a great example of actually the indication of eating healthy, staying fit, you know. Does it make you live longer? Probably not genetically, to some degrees, but it definitely gives you a better quality of life if you. If you look after yourself.

That's huge.

But I wasn't like my dad. I was. We lived. He was obviously came from a working class family in the north of England. We lived in a pretty damp house and I was the archetypal skinny weakling, you know, so obviously I had a Genetics. But I was a very, very sickly child. You know, I worked out after leaving school. I think I must have missed about three years of school. Through every winter I would get bronchitis, you know, I can remember spending countless nights trying to sled around the settee, trying to get my breath coughing, coughing up, you know, flam, everything else it was. I was an archetypal weakling, you know, it was just. But the one thing I was good at was music. I was very musical, you know, so I wanted a saxophone. Well, obviously I couldn't afford a saxophone, so they got me a clarinet. And I grew up in a really tough part of the world, mate. So what I used to do, I used to sneak my clarinet to school. So I put it in my satchel and sneak it to school. I'd do my music lessons and then play with all the tough kids in the playground, you know, and run around, chase them around and things and, you know. But I was very musical, so that was my God given talent, my music. Yeah. So by the time I was nine, I could play the bugle in the scout band. So I actually won the Brighouse Band championships when I was nine. Now the Brigham Span Championships is the biggest, like marching band championships in the uk. So I could just. Back then there was a lot. So I can remember being in the final, it was me, I was with my bugle and there was somebody from the Royal Marines on the drums next to me, like a soldier. And the Scots Guards here in his kilt, like these two big soldiers doing the drums. And then I was doing my bit and I won it at nine, so obviously I was very talented. And the same year I was chosen for the Yorkshire Youth Orchestra on my clarinet, which nobody knew about. So I was at school, sat with my mates at the back of assembly, all the scrawny kids at the back. And the music teacher came out and said, oh, we've got some fantastic news. You know, one of our, you know, young kids, young children has been selected for the Yorkshire Youth Orchestra. And I'm thinking, no, no, no, don't, don't do this to me, you know. And she said, oh, Carl, could you come to the front? And all my mates looked at me and I stood up, walked to the front. I had to play in green sleeve. I had to play green sleeves. It's like scarred me for life. So I played this green sleeves on my clarinet with the school teacher on the piano and my life changed in a second. That's. My life was totally different from that moment. I got Absolutely smashed every day, beaten up, bullied every day, man. You know, I couldn't fight back. I was just this skinny kid. I got hammered, honestly, because I was different. I was different. And a target, like, that's, you know, bullies are weak at the end of the day, aren't they? But I was just a target and I didn't. And I was a good kid. I didn't know how to fight back. And that went on for a long period of time. I turned my back on my music, which was my gift. When I got to 14, I think my dad must have thought, I'm going to have to do something with this kid. So skinny, you know, going to take him to the gym. So he took me to a gym called Arthur Straight. Arthur street is like one of the original gyms, Alex. It's not like a CrossFit gym. This was old school. Old school. It was brilliant. Old school's derail school, innit? This was brilliant. You know, I remember going in there and he gave me two exercises to do. He gave me squats, back squats and pullovers. He said, look, son, if you do back squats, pullovers, as a superset, it's the best combination, you know, so obviously we. Pullovers, because I had, like a pigeon chest, it was all caved in, I was so skinny. So I used to pull over superset with pullovers and back squats and bench press. And I can remember my first bench press. I think it was like £40 or something, you know, which was, to be honest, for me at 14, I thought, that's quite good. You know, my squats were quite good, but obviously my genetics for strength was in there, even though I was skinny. And within about two months, my asthma, bronchitis, my health, that's all that all gone, completely gone. So that. Well, there's got to be something in this. So I continued to train. By the time I was 16, I was the north of England under 21 powerlifting and Olympic lifting champion at 16, you know, so I was still skinny, but I was really, really strong. I got a photograph of myself at 16, front squatting, 275 pounds, you know, with an old bar with all these little weights on it, you know, at 16, right down, you know, so. And I was skinny, so I was very strong, you know, naturally strong. But it. And that was. It changed my life. I got into strength training, which eventually got me into throwing, which eventually got me into coaching. So it's, you know, things are meant for a reason, Alex, is what we've spoken about before, you know, the bullying, the adversity changes the direction in life which eventually leads to something, I think what you're supposed to do, your purpose in life.

It's really interesting, isn't it? When I look at that, I've got a few different mantras, but one of them I tell myself is this has already been written in history. All I need to do is go and experience it. And it's hard because I don't want to take away people's personal power and their destiny and also from a relaxed point of view to go, oh, this is written anyway and it's already done and just assume it. But it's really funny how life finds you. I find that as well, isn't it? It just really does. Whether it's a higher version of yourself or something. Because everything you're telling me there, Jenno, and then we can go through and share obviously the accolades of what you've done with professional sport. Although that's seems to be just a portion and maybe not even as important now from some of the things you've already shared. But it all plays a role. But all I'm thinking the whole time is, man, what's driving this guy? The question I asked myself, question I asked the dads I work with, like, what drives you? What was driving you as a young boy to get in and then become so gifted and work so hard with music classes at the point where you're literally hiding, you know, your clarinet so you could actually do it and then turning around, lifting weights. 125 kilos. That's a lot for a 16 year old. The front squat, I'm pretty sure that's what it converts to in pounds. That's huge for a front squat.

It was, but you know, like my bench pressing was pretty good. So that was always my thing, bench pressing. So I benched 180 kilos, 182 kilos the first time when I was 18.

Wow.

And I, my first, because my dad's, my dad used to say my personal best, Carl, you never beat my personal best. And his personal best was £440. So my first, you know, obviously my first 180 kilos, £400. And I still don't believe it to this day, mate. It's just like, it's like unbelievable. So I did my first 400 pound bench press when I was 18 and I did my first 500 pound bench press when I was 20. Wow. That's raw, mate. That's raw. That's not, that's not with all these daft straps on your arms and all that rubbish. That's just like me in a pair of shorts, T shirt, pushing out a bloody bar, you know. And my personal best was at 21, I bench press 447. Sorry, 547 pounds. Which is ridiculous, you know, so look, the drive you talk about, drive, I don't know, I think I've always been a little bit crazy. I don't know, I've always. I'm a really proud overachiever, Alex. You know, I did very little schooling at all back in the day. You know, I got educated through life, you know, I was very lucky to get the role that I got in sport because when I got my role as strength coach in sports, weren't strength coaches, you know, you know, there wasn't guys going to university and get degrees in strength training, you know, it just wasn't happening. So I was like, you know, before that started, it was about the art of strength and conditioning rather than the science. The thing that's driven me, I don't know, I see people, most people my age are probably thinking about retiring. You know, I believe in my greatest achievements are yet to come. And I truly, truly believe that. You know, do I feel like I've achieved a lot in life or the knots on paper, I have. When I think about the times and the experiences, they are pretty epic. You know, I live life on the epic scale, but did I take that for granted? I don't think I did, but it was just what I did, you know, it's just what I did and it's the drive. I don't know. I'm very emotionally driven, as you know, Alex. I was always very emotional about my drive was an emotional thing. What I learned from true high performance was to actually achieve a lot in life. You have to be process driven and you've got to actually control the state, you know, your state of mind or the actual state that you're in. But the driver, everyone's different, Alex. The one thing that I do work with with a lot of my young aspiring athletes, I have athletes all different abilities, but I have some young people that are going to be the best in the world. I got a couple of my racing car drivers that are the best in the world, one of them in particular. So I often talk to them about actually front loading their destiny. So you spoke about, is it our destiny? Is it all meant to be? Whatever we do, we always go down a certain path. Well, I think we do to some degree because our Paths are actually driven by our behaviors and life changes the way that we behave. That's that summation of forces that's pushing us forward. But I teach athletes, young athletes, to actually front load their destiny. And it's quite an uncomplicated thing to do. The process is quite long and I go through with them, but ultimately it comes down to actually them thinking about where they want to be. At 25, it's the same person, different life experiences, obviously, and how if that person does actually get to the top. So separate sentences for you, Alex. The man you are now is different to the young man I knew. That's same person, innit? Yeah, same person, but different. The thing that's different is that experiences and education has changed your behaviors. So if you wrote down the behaviors of your day now, the Alex that you are now, that list would be articulate, hard working, attention to detail, inquisitive, you know, these type of things. So it's quite simple. If you could take those behaviors, those traits that you have now, and if you could take those back and you lived by those traits when you were 17, you would become. Would you be a different person? No. But would you have got to where you are quicker? Probably, yes. So for me it's. It's about behavior all the time. So I coach behavior super six. Yeah. Parents bring the kids because they want the kids to be better athletes. Fatter, faster, fitter, better soccer players, better rugby league players. But you know, they realize pretty quickly that that's all secondary. That's all secondary. Don't worry about that. We're going to coach their behavior first. And that's why it's called Super 6. It's the 6, 6 behaviors that I know that have been crucial in all the great athletes that I've coached. So again, the thing that drives me, I don't know, something's pushing you forward. I don't know what it is.

Yeah, it's awesome how you explain that though, Jenna and the Super 6. I mean, I love to know what they are, but also I think it's pretty clear to see that, that memory of your father doing push ups, which is why I love what we do as dads. There's nothing against women and mothers. They play a huge role in their leaders in their own right. But as fathers, it's something that primarily we connect to and that seeing that you wouldn't even have to think about it, it just becomes something in the back of the brain of. That's the standard that you like my girls seeing the gym It's a gym. Give me the rings. I'm ready. It's amazing.

It is. And what you see, what you're taking for granted, is that your girls have male mentor in their lives. See, a lot of families don't have that. So within my program, I have a lot of young lads in particular that come from broken homes or from care, from traumatic backgrounds. So they're in emergency intervention. So the only male influence they've had in a lot of respects, especially in those traumatic upbringings, is, Is a male mentor. That isn't necessarily the best influence or actually even inflicts pain onto them. So when they turn up in a lot, Ricky, they're not used to having a male influence in their life that's positive. And you know me, Alex, I'm pretty positive. So the power of being a good male influence and mentoring as a male is so powerful. It's so powerful because these kids come in, maybe the carer or the mum can't really control the young man because he needs a male role model in his life that can give fair discipline, give good direction. Fair, but fair. Give really positive feedback. Not negative, but really positive feedback, you know, because it takes as much energy to be positive as it does to be negative. Yeah, but I'm telling you, being negative takes. Takes more out of you than being positive. You know all about this. And for a young person to get that positive reinforcement is so, so, so powerful. So the one thing that I think is a really important thing that you'll understand, Alex, as an elite athlete is changing the state of mind. So look, as an athlete, there's three states of mind. There's calm, optimal and peak. And for a person, a normal dad out there that's working really hard, having to, like, obviously support his family, there's a lot of pressure on that individual, you know, but whether it's. There has to be a time that you're calm. And the most powerful time to be calm. And it doesn't matter what shit's going on in your day. Yeah. Get in the car and while you're driving home, breathe. Get calm. And don't share their problems. Don't offload your problems when you first walk through the door, be calm. Just give five, ten minutes of that calm soul to your kids, to your wife. Yeah. Tell them that you love them. Yeah. Just actually be calm for a while. It's a hard, hard thing to do. But athletes learn about transition. You know, you did an athlete, you know, you play your first half, you're 20 points behind, you walk Off. You got to get calm and change it. You got to listen to what you need to do. You got to have a transition and you got to go out and try and solve the problem. Don't solve the problem or you solve it after the game. You got to get calm again. There's got to be transition in your life. Some people struggle with having the ability to act, the awareness. And you understand about awareness, Alex, is, you know, because you're such a powerful force within the family unit, your responsibility is so powerful because you're going to influence everybody around you. If you take your problems into that, you know, first impressions, laughs for a lifetime. As soon as you walk through that door, you know, it has such a negative influence on the whole family unit. And it makes you feel worse if you actually just calm. Go home. Just 10 minutes. That's what it takes. Just 10 minutes. Even if you're feeling like shit. Just to give them kids what they want. They don't care what their dad does. They just love the dad, you know, so the dad just needs to just give them a little bit of time and have. Go get a shower, have your meal, you know, and then look after yourself. Because I know you're a great believer in that, Alex, about helping dads look after themselves first. But being a positive role model is such a powerful thing because if you're not, it has a massive influence on the family. A massive influence on the whole family.

Yeah. Yeah. It's incredible. And transitions. That's a big thing I got from that as well. Like there's. There's so many. Isn't there in life? One of the big ones, like when I come home to my children, I'm entering their environment. Doesn't matter that the house is in my name or I'm paying the bills. I'm entering a preoccupied environment.

Yeah.

Who am I to go in there blown off steam or being a fucking tool without checking myself first? And just having that level of calm. And that's hugely important. And something that's probably very underrated or maybe, like you said, they're not aware.

You know what it is, Alex? It's actually your state. Your state is. And this is high performance sport again. Does high performance sport have an influence on normal day life? Of course it fucking does. Because the amount of money that's been pumped into high performance sport is ridiculous. So if you look at a nation that's. That's bidding for the Olympics and they get it, and then they got to spend trillions of dollars to build stadiums and then they won any gold medals. So believe me, for every dollar that's spent on the stadium, there's a dollar spent in a sports science lab trying to find a way for their athletes to win. So there's huge amount of resources gone into this type of stuff and it's very powerful. So we know in high performance, the greatest influence on performance is the state, the state that the athlete's in. You know, they're in complete control of their internal environment, which ultimately can obviously affect their external environment. So state. There's actually an equation that goes with state. This isn't something I've read in the book, Alex. So this is a bit of like, you know, straight out the old noggin. So it's basically to be in a really good state. It's just physical, physical energy and at times emotional focus. So physical energy times emotional focus over clarity and connection, equal state. So, for instance, you understand this as an athlete. I've said that 20 times so far. So going into a performance, if your physical energy and your emotional focus is on. Yeah. And then you're surrounded by clarity and connection with your teammate. Yeah. You're going to go and win. So you go into a game and your physical energy is low and your focus isn't necessarily there. There's no real clarity in what you need to do and there's definitely no connection. You got no hope in hell. It doesn't matter what type of athlete you are or what type of individual. Now, how does that relate to the normal dad in the street? So, look, physical energy, you know, being healthy and looking after yourself is so important. And as you know, the balance between physical energy and emotional focus is linked 100%. I'm sure there's some papers written out there about it. But we know, Alex, we know that stuff, don't we? We know it. It's a reality.

Yeah.

It's not about going to the doctors and get some tablets for fitting that sort of shit. We know. This is about being healthy. It's about physical energy which creates emotional focus. And if you're already clear on the role that you play in the world, you have true connection with your family. How good does that feel? How good does that feel? Now, I'm telling you, if you're unhealthy and you haven't got focus, you're not clear on your role in life or what you really want to do. There's very little connection. And connection's very important. It's about communication, isn't it? Communication. So there's no connection. It goes to shit. And I don't care what scenario is involved. We're all human beings. I don't care what role you play in life, what job you have, what type of career you're doing. If there's no physical anything, physical energy, emotional focus is not there. There's no. You're not clear of your role or there's no connection with the people around you, you ain't going to perform. And a dad's role in a family is, is to lead that family. I know we live in an equal rights society and everything else, but reality is there's a bit of pressure involved in that. I feel that every day, Alex. They pulled my roller door on my gym down four weeks ago just as the business was flying. What do you do? I've got to get some money. I got to go find some money. I've thought outside the box. I put it all online now and it's going great, which is fine. But your state as an individual is the most important thing now. Is it your responsibility to actually learn about that for you so you can actually impact other people in your life? Well, of course it is. I'm telling you, if you can actually learn how to be in a good state on a 80 20, the old 8020 rule there, Alex, you'll feel more fulfilled, you know, you'll be a happier person. You know, you'll affect people around you in a much positive way. And you got to remember that your kids are watching every second of the day when they're with you because you're their role model, you're their hero. You know, whether or not you want to believe that or not, that's how kids look up to the parents, don't they? And the father figure in their life. So the state is such a powerful thing.

Yeah, it's an incredible equation. I love it, mate. And I'm seeing a similar pattern as well, it seems like what? Because I'm emotionally driven as well. What you were speaking about earlier and you said you looked at harnessing that but then dialing that into being process driven. What I'm seeing a lot even with that formula and state is I say facts and feelings, the feelings that can drive us and put the energy in there. But then what are the clear indicators? Like we said, clarity, connection, how we connected, is it through communication? And seems like that's like almost that yin yang or that balance that's necessary. But too often we either have one or a lot of fathers, when I'm processing this now, would have none. They don't have any physical health. They don't even know how to communicate. So they're never calm. They're always triggered or at a state of peak when they're not supposed to be. And imagine that on a chronic level, decades.

Yeah. But imagine how quickly you can change things around. Because I can tell you, your state of mind can change in a second, Alex. So we're starting talking really calm right now, and a tiger jumps through that window. Your state of mind changes in one second. Yeah. You leave it. No, I knew you'd wrestle it clean.

A jerk.

Yeah. You would be this. You just wrestle it, you know. But so ultimately, through a reaction. Yeah. We can change our state of mind. Yeah. An external trigger. I know you talk about that a lot. Yeah. But if we understand how to control that, that is so powerful. Because we have a choice. Choices can be made. You know, people that. People come out with X can't do this. Avoidance and excuses isn't high performance. Everybody has a choice. Most people know what the difference is between right and wrong. Yeah. If that's. There's no. There's no gray area. It's either right or it's wrong. I was taught that from an amazing gear steward at Bradford Bowls, Fred Robinson, God rest his soul. What an amazing man he was. You know, it's a luck song. It's either right or it's wrong, son. There's no in between. You know, and through all these years, I've realized that. So we all know what's right or right or wrong, and we have. Everybody can make a choice, you know? So if you know what's right and wrong and you've got the ability to make a choice, make the fucking right one for your family. Just do it. Don't fucking talk about it. Just do the right thing.

You know?

And people say it's easy to say that, but I'm under all this pressure. No, breathe. Get calm. Just get calm. Breathe through your nose. But you all know about the breathing techniques. Alex. You know, it's common knowledge now, you know, so breathe. Get calm. You know what's right. You know what your kids need. Just go and do it just for 10 minutes. Just be the person that you deserve to be. You know, everybody deserves to have those type of things in their life. But we're in charge of. Everybody's in charge of their own destiny. There's a lot of people. We live in a bit of a soft environment these days, don't we? You know, we know that. You know, and I know that the majority of my young Athletes don't live in the ghetto. Yeah. The greatest boxers live in the Bronx. We know that.

Yeah.

So, you know, if you don't live in the ghetto, you've got to trip. You got to train in the ghetto, you know, and it's adversity bring breed strength. If you want to squat 300 kilo, you've got to work out, you know that. You've got to go and train. You've got to train your body and your mind to get into that bat. It may take you three years. Yeah. And you're going to go through a lot of pain along the way. But you understand that for me to look, for me to squat 300 kilos, I got to train. So look, to actually control your state of mind, you got to work at it. You got to do processes. And I was taught this. So when I came back and started doing my business, I went through a really bad time, Alex. I felt in my own mind that it was the right thing to do. I somehow I had this given a second chance in life to give back and all that. But being involved with team sports for 20 years, overnight, I lost all my mates. And I got that lonely. I was just so lonely. I got pretty low, Alex. I got very, very low. I contemplated a few things, but ultimately what it was, a great friend and mentor of mine, which is Matt Elliot, he said to me, look, Carl, on the way home in your car, don't think about all the negative things. Just think about all the amazing things you've achieved in your life. Think about all the amazing things that you're doing or you're trying to do and focus on all those amazing things. Just 15 minutes going to work and 15 minutes going home. Spend the rest of the day worrying about shit. But just then, just train. Just train, train to think positively. And initially, when you're in that really bad mindset, you're thinking, what a crock of shit talking about, you know. And you know what? I treated it like a training routine. 15 minutes training. I would sit in the car and I think about, yeah, life's great, you know, living this amazing country. I got amazing family. I am making a difference. I got family that supported me all these years. The sun's out. Anything I could think about, I just thought about how amazing that was. Just for 15 minutes training in the car to and from work, telling you within a few months wasn't overnight, within a few months of that simple process. Process again, simple process. So smack behaviors. Talk a lot about smack behaviors to nick talk to actually make Change, we don't like change. Humans don't like it. But to actually create change, you've got to create what I call a smack behavior. People know about smack behaviors, which is a systematic, methodical and consistent thing, and eventually it changes behavior. So that little 15 minutes in the car every day to and from work, very simple process. But it was a system. Yeah, it was a system. I was methodical and consistent with it, and it changed the way that I thought completely, you know, over time. It was. I was just training it. It was a simple thing to do, but I was just consistent, consistent, consistent. Yeah, so. And it works. So, look, ultimately you got to work at it, but you just need to have a process that you believe in. You know, you've got that clarity and connection with that process. Yeah. And that eventually will change the state of mind.

Powerful, mate. Yeah. Something that I feel almost saved me even in my younger years when I started to shift the weight from being overweight and getting into sport and then all the different adversities of life, family, relationships, business, just always naturally optimistic and positive. And I'm like. I even say to the dads, I work with them, well, fuck, what's the alternative? Where's that going to get you? All right, so I'm pulling away. I'm becoming less thinking worse. It's going to take me even longer to get back to where I was before, and I'm losing time in the process. It doesn't make sense to me. But the overalling principle seems like if this is an energy and frequency you put out there, like you said, it's a behavior and a process, but then it just becomes you.

Yeah, you. So, Alex, so just. This is. Sit back. Just sit back and just point to yourself and say, jenno, this is me. Get assertive with me. Point to yourself and say, jen O, this is me.

Jenno, this is me.

Do it again. Point to yourself.

This is me.

Where are you pointing?

To myself.

Yeah.

My heart.

Yeah. Now, where do the majority of people live? In the fucking heads. They live in here. The brain is just a processor. It's hot, it's cold. Good. It's bad. Just a process. This isn't who you are. This isn't who you are. It's just. This is who you are. Yeah. Now, I've asked that many people to do that, from being 8 years old to world champions, and they always touch the chest. And then when you actually talk to the best athletes in the world, because ultimately I've worked with quite a lot of those. When I asked Them. When you did your best ever performance, what was you thinking about? You tell me the answer, Alex. Or when you played your best ever game, or when you played, when you had your greatest performance in CrossFit, what was you thinking about in that moment?

One, I can't remember. But two, I think it's because it was nothing. I was just feeling correct.

You don't think about anything. Which is. Which is, you know. So look, so when you're at your best, if you're not thinking about anything, when are you at your worst? You're fucking constant. Your head's busy.

Yeah.

Don't trust your brain, mate. Trust your heart. So the thing is, with all the dads out there, they gotta get out of here and they gotta get into here. So look, when you fall in love, you get butterflies out in your belly. You don't get a fucking headache, do you? You get butterflies in here, don't you?

It comes later.

There's gurus out there that say, this is what they call the lower keeling. Your soul. This is where your soul resides. When you hear some really, really bad news, you know, there's a lot of people in the world right now hearing really, really bad news. You get that sinking feeling. Yeah, in here, in your gut, like you've been just punched in the guts. Yeah. You know, this is who you are, Alex. So look, to be, you know, without getting too spooky, because, you know, the real Jenna, don't. You know, the Jenna the Viking, freaking screaming and shout, you know, so this might be hard for you to like, what's going on, Jenno, what's happening here? But look, it's about getting in touch with who you actually are. This is your image. Image. This is where it resides. This is where an image resides. Yeah. This is where your identity survives. This is where it resides. This is who you are. This is who you think you should be. Yeah. So look, it's the ability to actually get in touch with who you actually are, to do the right thing. It's a really powerful thing. So the more you think, the more, the worse you get. The majority of people on this planet, in the Western world. Let's talk about the Western world. Live in myth, the fucking dead set. Live in myth. The worry about what happened yesterday don't fucking exist anymore, man. It literally doesn't exist. It was yesterday. In the energy of the universe doesn't fucking exist. So they spend a lot of the time worrying about what happened yesterday. And then they spend the rest of the time worrying about what's Gonna happen next week or tomorrow. Yeah. Or the bills they've got to pay or the job they've got to keep. Doesn't fucking exist. Hasn't happened yet. Doesn't exist. So the majority of energy and the majority of your existence is living in a complete and utter fucking fantasy world that does not exist. Yeah. The great strength is to actually be present. You felt that, that feeling that you had, Alex, when you was at your best, you was present there. You was clear and it was you. Yeah. The big Viking was just gonna tear this apart. Physical energy was good. Emotional focus was good. He was clear. Connected. Clear here. Connected. Shit happens. Good stuff happens. So the thing, one of the processes, this is why meditation is so powerful for athletes is again, it teaches them how to deal with pressure. The more pressure there is, the more you think. So all you've got to do is stop thinking. You know, if you're at work, you're feeling stressed out, your boss is a dickhead, you know, you got bills to pay. Well, no, breathe. Where are you right now? How. You know, just, let's. Let's get back to who you are. Let's get back to your identity. Not your image, but your identity. This is what I am. Yeah. I feel good about myself. Yeah, this is good. Yesterday. Yesterday doesn't exist. It literally doesn't fucking exist. Tomorrow hasn't happened yet. Get in the moment now. You know, Alex, the greatest rugby league players, people like Darren Lockyer, he just was in the moment. Jonathan Thurston, in the moment. Even in the big games, when you surrounded, like the state of origin games or test matches. Because when I was with Great Britain, we used to coach against Australia, much better team, but somehow we had to come up with a game plan to win. And we knew, we knew exactly what. Darren Lockyer's players were on the edge. He had a hook line, he had a flat pass, he had an inside ball to clicking Minichello. Back in the day, dead set. Last five minutes of a test match, he would always put it on. Did we know that was coming? Of course we did. But under extreme pressure, he was clear, knew what he had to do. Inside ball to Minichello, under the sticks to win in the last five minutes. Did that that many times against Great Britain. Yeah. Simple player, executed perfectly without thinking about it. So having a clear mind and being conscious that you need to have a clear mind and the more you're thinking, you've got to go, hang on, I'm under pressure here. I'm thinking too much. I've just Got to breathe. Three breaths. Get clear. Yeah, I can deal with this now. I can deal with this. So it's a powerful thing, awareness. And you understand about awareness, Alex, is a powerful thing. Once you have awareness, how amazing that information is, you've actually already beaten it. You've got it. Yeah. You're aware of it. So now it's a reality. Yeah. Before, I spoke about living in myth or living in the moment. There'll be some dads out there thinking, fuck, yeah, you fucking know. Yeah, job done, game over. Because that's really powerful stuff because I lived like that for years until I realized, hang on a minute, I gotta start living. I gotta start living in the now, appreciating what I've got right now. Yeah, it's such a powerful thing.

And you can't even have awareness if you're in the past or future. I just. Fantasy or previous. It's what couldn't exist, awareness in the. In the past. Like, if you. If you're living in the past, how could you not now?

Well, the only. The only place that. That exists is in your head. Not anybody else's head. It's just in your head. And what happens is you carry those. Those myths, thoughts around with you, and then you. You impart them on other people. You walk through your front door, all that myth, then you're whacking out your wife. What about this and what about that? Don't fucking exist. And then you pan onto them and they're thinking about it, and your kids think about it. Doesn't actually exist. What exists is these beautiful people in a lot of respect you've created in this world that need your. Need you to be present right now. Yeah. And the only thing, and the easiest way to do that is just to breathe and clear your mind, appreciate what you've got. Because right now in the world, it doesn't matter if you're the leader of the UK or a billionaire or a pauper. Everyone's getting a disease, aren't they? They're all getting it. It's. You know, so it doesn't. The only thing that really matters is family connection, who you are and trying to help each other through it. They've become really, really powerful in the last few months. And there's more people doing that now. They used to be. I think. I think people are actually getting more connected now.

Yeah. No, you're right, mate. Anyone can do it. That's. That's what I was gonna say. And, you know, just.

It's just a choice, Alex. You just Make a choice in life to do it. You know, the greatest legacy that you can leave as a human being is having a positive influence on other people. You know that there's no true, there's no, you can't live forever, but there is actually a way that you can be immortal is by actually passing on your legacy through other people that they can pass on in other people as they move through their life. You know, with young people in particular. So with a young person, if you can truly, I believe if you can change one young person's life for the positive, they'll go through their life and they'll affect lots of people in their life. So you probably affect hundred people in a lifetime in a positive way. If you can change 10 young people's lives in a positive way, they'll go on and they'll change thousands of people's lives in their life. If you can change a thousand young people's lives in a positive way, change the way they think for the positive, they can change the world. Man. That's what I truly, truly, truly believe, Alex. Maybe that's why I came out that fire when I shouldn't have done. And with you, you've got to understand how powerful your role as a mentor is in other people's lives, because it has an effect. It's a butterfly effect, isn't it? And all the dads out there, the effect that they can have on their family has such a powerful influence for the next generation and even generations to come. You know, it's a really powerful role to have in life and it's something that we shouldn't really take for granted at all.

Yeah, that's to me, what I believe is eternal life. Like the body's become dust, but the values, principles, mannerisms, what we can pass on, it actually does exist in others. But as humans, we've got such a, almost one dimensional way of thinking that thinking.

You said it. Thinking there.

Exactly.

Who think. Stop thinking, Alex, you'll stop thinking. I know, I know. You're an educated man, you know, which is fantastic. Not thinking isn't about being educated. The reason why that elite athlete can execute a skill without thinking is because he's practiced, it's 10,000 times. Yeah. So look, you have to practice, you have to think at certain times. So all the knowledge that you've learned and studied, that's there, that's there in a positive way to be used in a positive way. But for you to execute at your best, it's to get calm and clear and then just speak from the heart or speak from who you are. You know that one? This is me, Jano. Yeah. Who you are. You know, so it's a powerful thing, Alex.

Yeah, this is what. This is what I love, mate. I mean, we've got, like two men that your background, what you've been raised with, and your accolades, which we'll have to do on a another episode, mate, and dive into some of the elite sports stuff. We will absolutely touch on them, though. But you got two men here. We can be the big fucking tough man. We can beat our chest, we can do all that sort of shit. But the reality is, when you can combine a level of temperament through state what you said, and combine the science and the spirit from men who can be the big fucking warriors, it's the voice that's needed, mate. I'm not. And it's no disrespect, I'm not some little skinny dude who hasn't lived or gone through hardships of life. And I'm trying to get men to be in touch with their feelings. No, these are men in you and me. And there are others, but as leaders who can be this big, big fucking hard man. But it's a matter of choices and going, hey, you know what? These are ways that you can connect with yourself, and this is what you can do moving forward. Because men have never had this before, Jenna. Not, not, not. Maybe, maybe, maybe ancient tribes have and we've lost that.

Right? But in the modern Spartans, dead Debacles.

But in the modern world. Yeah, you like last hundred, maybe 150 years. That's the Western world anyway. Suppressing male emotion. Toughen up, don't cry to be a fucking man. Like, it's the whole wrong play, which ultimately has led to, you know, which is maybe for another day, extremities of feminism and demonizing masculinity. That it's not necessarily the case.

Yeah. Well, look at one of the greatest boxing coaches in history, Cus d', Amato, who was Mike Tyson's coach and he died. That's one of the reasons Mike Tyson went off the rails. But there's an amazing book, and if you're into reading, you need to actually get it. I think it's called Kings of the World, and it's the era of Ali. There goes my bread. I'm getting too old. I've got the book in my bookcase. I'll talk to you about it. It's called Kings of the World, but it's about. So Cus d', Amato, he was a Fatalist. So when he was a boy in the Bronx, he pinched an apple, got into a fight, he had his eye poked out with a stick. So he believed from a young age that because he had an apple, he lost an eye. So he believed that he would never have possessions. So even though Cus d' Amato probably coached the world's greatest boxers over a long period of time, five of the legends of the sport, he lived in the same one bedroomed flat with his wife in the Bronx his whole life. And he's an amazing man. Amazing man. So look, we get. But he used to choose. So in these areas, you can imagine there's really, really tough people going back to the 30s, 40s and 50s, really tough people walking the streets.

Yeah.

Back in the day in New York, he would choose the crybabies, he would choose the kids that would lose a fight and would cry. He would look in the street and he would get them because he believed that a crybaby or people perceived as a kid that would cry had emotions and would use those emotions. That was just his way of doing it, you know. So when you actually go through all these great. These are legends of boxing, including Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson used to cry, you know, that's why he chose Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson used to cry before his fights when he was younger because he was scared. Dead sketches, you know, he won the world title at 18, so he was fighting men when he was 17. 16, 17, 18, you know, so he was scared, but he used to use that fear and channel it to be an unbelievable athlete. And that goes back to all the champions. So, yeah, losing touch with who you are and your emotions is a really, really negative thing on men, you know. And again, it's. Get it, it's losing in touch with this. Yeah. And putting it here. Yeah. Tough blokes talk, Tough blokes don't cry. What a lot of shit. That's myth, isn't it? That's myth. Yeah. You know, if you, you know, it's about getting who you are. It's your identity, your human being. You got emotions, you got, you got hormones that are going on. It's. It's normal to feel down, it's normal to feel sad. It's also normal to feel happy. But if you're telling yourself all the time you're not supposed to feel like this. This is shit. What's the matter with you? Christ, you're thinking too much again, aren't you? You're creating this state of mind that's like really negative. Giving Yourself, negative feedback. A lot of people get into that cycle of thinking. It's just. And again, it's this thing taking over. Don't trust what's going on up here. Don't trust it. Trust in here, how you're feeling. Yeah. Because it's such a powerful thing. And that's. We've lost touch. A lot of modern men have lost touch with how they're supposed to feel. Yeah. And as you know, some of the greatest warriors that I had coached. Alec, I'm talking about, you know, these people, you know, you bled and sweat with these people off the footy pitch. They are the most gentlest human beings on the planet. Reuben Wiki, dead set. What an amazing human being and father.

Yeah.

So let's go through them. Best people I've ever met. Alex Reneri. Oh, no, sorry. So look, Reuben Wickey, absolute legend and warrior. Warrior. He had the lowest tackle count in the Camber Raiders team because nobody would run his way. Tackle counts on the other side of the field because he was going to break you. They'd run the other way in a tough game. That's a good stat to have. Yeah. So he's the most amazing human being off the field. Petro Sivana. Sieva. The most amazing family man off the field. Luke Lewis. You know how tough Louis is. The most amazing father off the field. And you can go through it. You can go through all the truly tough men. Not that talking tough game, but you know, in their moments, come up with the tough player. You know, the majority of them, there's always an exception to the rule, but the majority of them type of people are really consistent with them standards and behaviors off the field. And they're good people. Can you look back at your life and think, you know, I haven't been the best person here. I don't feel good about myself. Well, make a choice, you know the difference between right and wrong. Become a good person, become a good role model. Make a difference in the world. It's just a choice. And that choice can be changed in a second. Yeah, totally changed in a second.

That's what makes life, isn't it, mate? Series of choices.

Yeah, it is.

We're all teachers and through choices showing a glimpse of what will happen if you do the same thing or if you don't and you turn it around and change it. Just as we wrap up Jenno, because we'll definitely do another episode. Mate, you got some amazing. I mean, we'll go through your accolades, but it's, it's interesting. What was the nature, like with these all black players, like they are just monsters. They do the haka and all this. And did they have that. Did you apply this same stuff through with your elite athletes as well over the years?

Well, look, if you actually look at the Crusaders sporting history, it's probably the most successful rugby union franchise in the world. The actual All Blacks culture is the crusader culture. The modern All Blacks culture is the. The crusader culture. The crusader. Listen to this. For a sporting tamer franchise, I think it's something like 75% of Crusader players become all black. Now just imagine if 75 players, 75% of all Panthers players played for either Australia or the Kiwis. It's just. It's just aired off. So the culture is quite amazing. I read a few things about it. But again, destiny took me there. I didn't really choose to go there. Destiny took me there. Their point of difference, the Crusaders, their point of difference is that they have to. They believe they have to constantly evolve and they're always looking for a point of difference. So to be the very best at something, you have to point a difference. Their point of difference. That year after the earthquakes, probably nobody else wanted to go there, to be honest. Maybe it's just me trying to big note myself. No, because nobody else wanted to go work in Christchurch. Matt Geno was the only person that wanted to go. But look, their point of difference and the tournaments, they wanted to get league fit. They knew the game was evolving at the time. They knew that the defensive structures in league needed to be brought into rugby union at the highest level. They understood that getting some shape around the half, you know, the halfbacks or the ball players within the game had to change. So they took quite a lot from me. I was assuming that it was gonna be a physical development. It was actually all the other bits and pieces that I knew about the game. It was quite interesting how they actually put all that together. But the most amazing thing was their culture. Now I. And you can read about all this stuff, the All Blacks culture and everything. Ultimately, it's a high performance, winning culture. It's a winning culture. The expectation, scrutiny and consequence, which is high performance is very, very high. So the expectations on you as an individual is probably the most important things that you have to have. And without these, you just got to walk out the door again. And yet you have to have courage and character. That's it. That's it. But you have to have courage and character. Courage. So where does courage and character come from? Alex? You tell me.

Amet from the heart.

Courage and character is who you are as a man. Yeah. The rest is if you've got true courage and character, you can do anything. If you've got the character to actually put your head where nobody else wants to put it, if you've got a character to run an extra 10 hills when everybody else is falling over, if you've got the courage, your convictions, you can achieve anything in life. So that's when I started to learn about how powerful behavior was in high performance. But the other thing that I realized about that amazing environment was the fact that it was just an all the time thing. And the expectations on you as a coach was really, really high because their point of difference as an athlete is that they're independent thinking. So in modern sport, and I've made this mistake myself, so at the start of my career, right at the start, 20 odd years ago, it was all about the art of strength and conditioning. And then it got into the science of strength and conditioning. We thought, well, to be professional, you've got to give all the squad kits and boots. Oh no, they don't work anymore. The full time athletes. Full time athletes. I know, we'll feed you. Yeah. Well, we'll educate you. Yeah. As your game plan, you don't have to fucking think anymore. Yeah. This is your role. So they lose the ability to make decisions under pressure. It's a skill that's taken away from them. You know, you get a back and I've been, you know, I've been involved with systems, you know, which is all about structure. So you get a young back row that's got these amazing offloads and he can kick. He can kick. Yeah, he can kick. You got a little dribbling. Oh, you don't do that, son. Your job's to run a good line. That's it. Kick the ball again, you're not making a team, you know. So in actual fact, you start decoaching and the athletes stop thinking for themselves. So the real point of difference with that culture is they actually develop, sorry, develop independent thinking athletes from day one. So they have a process to that within coaching. So they used to. For me there was three types of development for an athlete. There was, there was learning to train. Obviously learning to train is that first stage where you're learning about the body and you're learning about technique. I suppose a lot of your dads are in that learning to train stage. And then there's training to train. So training to train is where you've learned the basics and you're training. Yeah, you can self manage a little bit and then there's training to compete. Now I thought that was the optimum. I thought the highest level was training to compete. And you know, I went through a period, especially out of Canberra when they were just developing small sided games from the AIs. So Canva Raiders is probably the first team to do all that stuff, small sided games and that, you know, competing, you know, competing. So you know, building a competitive element in training, a competitive element in the gym. How good is that? You're developing competitive animals. You're gonna go out there and compete. Yeah, they can compete, but can they win? So I actually found out when I was in the Crusaders with all these 15 all blacks that they trained to win. So a training to compete athlete would be somebody along the lines of, you know, you could be the very best. You know, wrestling's on today and you've been part some of those wrestling sessions, Alex, and you know, it's on, you're going to compete. There's another front row that you're going to wrestle again and you're going to wrestle him and you turn up and it's on. You know, there's, you know, you leave a bit of skin in the ring, you know, a bit of blood, bit of sweat. But training to win athlete, he knows next week on Wednesday there's a wrestling session on. So he starts preparing for that session, making sure he sleeps, making sure he's eating well, making sure he's stretching for that session because he wants to win it. Now that's a mentality. So when people talk about this spooky culture, what's going on with the old butt, they are 24 7, winning at everything. It's a cult. You know, we call cult. Cult's just a short name for culture. So we can, we can cope with the word culture. Countless people start saying cult, but they're quite happy to call it a cult because they're dead set that everybody's on. Everybody's on. So look, I used to, I used to feel like I would have to create an event every session for me and you'd be part of those. Alex would try and think of creating an event, I'd come overboard. I'd write some Viking saying on there or something and it'd be on, wouldn't it? Everyone's training and I'd be out there writing and raving, you know, trying to motivate the group. That's how I was. I had to go quiet and calm at the Crusaders because the motivation came from the other side, it came the other way. I was the one that was under pressure. I would come up with the best ever training session because I'm under the pump. I'd be going home and working it out to the finest detail because I knew I was going to deliver it to men that knew as much as me, if not more. Yeah, And I was dead set under the pump all the time to deliver because that's what they expected. They wanted the best all the time. And if it wasn't good enough, they'd remind you of it. They'd train hard. It seemed like a great session. Then one or two of them, you know, Richard McCrory, walked past our general. Make sure you prepare better for tomorrow. Boom. Holy shit. You know, what the hell? And guess what you do the next day, Alex? Prepare. It's their expectation. They're there to win, man. They're there to win. They want the best. Not like 360 days of the year. They want the best 365 days of the year, 24 7. So when you go on tour and things like that with them, then the kitman dead set the first game. And I'd read about this, about the All Blacks changing, the cleaning, the change rooms and everything else. First game for the Crusaders after the earthquake. So we had this temporary stadium with some demountables of changing rooms. Johnny the kit man, great fella, as all kit men are, as you know. So after the game, we played the Highlanders, we beat the Highlanders and we came back and I stood there and Johnny's there like this in the corner. You know what a changing room's like. It's got strapping tape everywhere, the cups, places, a shit fight, you know. Anyhow, and even at the time, it was just after they'd won the World cup, so Richard McCall was injured, but he was there. Richie started tidying up as well, and all the lads, all the lads that weren't playing would start tidying up. The lads went for the showers, then they got changed, then they started ti. I'm not talking about tidying up. I'm talking about cleaning the shower walls, cleaning the toilet bowls, cleaning. And the place was. And Johnny was like, thanks. I said to Todd Blackadder, the head coach, what the hell is Johnny doing? Oh, no, this isn't Johnny's job, Jenna. He said, you know, rules, you do what's right. You know what the third rule is, don't you, Jenna? I'm thinking, yeah, yeah, do I? He said, we always leave a place as we find it. When they walked into this changing room, they better leave this place as they find it. That's one of our rules. You know that, don't you? I said, well, yeah, you know. So when they walked out that changing room, it was pristine. Yeah, pristine. Now, is there a reason why they win games? Fucking hell, yeah. So when it says that they've got to be grounded, they go to the extent of. They clean the change room with the shoes off. So they ground it. The feet are in contact with the ground, they're level, they're feet on the ground, you know, so that, that's to the level that they live their lives. That's why when they go on the field, their habits, which is attention to detail, character, courage, doing what's right, they take that onto the field. So the outcome is an amazing performance. In actual fact, it's built off all that other stuff. Cleaning the changing room and doing the right thing all the time. And the world's greatest player while he's injured, going, buying all the meat and then doing a barbecue for all the young kids that training. Because he wants to, because that's his role as the leader. Yeah, well, you know, some of the teams that you've been in, Alex, if the best player in the world was injured, he wouldn't be going off his own back and coming and cooking a barbecue for the lads. Won't be happening, would it? You know, but that's because he's an all black, he's a crusader, you know, and that's what it is. That's training to win, that's preparing to win. If you win in life, the outcome is a really, really positive outcome. If you choose to choice again, if you choose to be shallow, if you choose not to be humble, the outcomes aren't necessarily that good. So just to finish, Alex, because I know you're very busy and I can dead set waffle. I got deported.

I will create at least a five episode series.

I got deported, mate, because I talked too much. So look, super six.

Yeah.

So this is what I coach behaviour first. So when I look back on all the greats I'd coached in rugby league, rugby union, I thought to myself, what made them who they were? So because they are truly the greats of the game, you know, some of them, the best that play at their level, some of the best that have ever played the game, you know, arguably. So you say to yourself, what made them who they were? Was it their speed? Well, no, at the highest level everybody's quick. Yeah. Was it the strength? No. At the highest Level, everybody's strong, you know. Was it the fitness? Well, no. To play at that level, you gotta be fit. Was it the skill? Well, no, because you can't play at that level. I should. So what makes them who they were? And after thinking about it, and I think you want to be honest, these two here played in different eras. Because I've gone through three generations of players, by the way, Alex, I am old. So they played a different time, different decades, different sports, but very, very, very similar. Hang on a minute. And these people are similar. And in the end, I came down with six behaviors that all these great champions had without question. Number one, humility. Yeah. The humble, you know, you know, Petro 7ACI was like, he still is an unbelievable athlete. Humble ass. Reuben wiecky. Humble. Richard McCullough. Humble. Dan Carter, Kieran Reed. Humble. You know, the humble people on and off the field. Sacrifice. Number two, they learn what sacrifice means. So when I speak to a young athlete, you know, I say to them, sacrifice to you is really important. And sacrifice is a big word. It's a big word for you to make a sacrifice. It might mean getting to bed earlier at night, it might mean eating the right foods, it might mean coming to Super 6 and doing some extra training. But it has to be a sacrifice. And for the dads out there, they might have to make a few sacrifices right now for me to feed my soul. I made a sacrifice. I gave up my career. Like that. Yeah, gave it up, but I feel better for it. Number three, loyalty. The best of the best. They're very, very loyal initially to themselves. They look after themselves. Yeah. Their health. And I know you're helping dads to look after themselves. So they're loyal to themselves. They don't self sabotage by thinking the wrong thoughts. They're loyal to themselves, they're loyal to the team and then they're loyal to the family. Probably not that order. But the best of the best are very, very loyal people. Now if you look at somebody like Ronaldo or Messi earning huge amounts of money. Yeah. And if they're very, very loyal people, they're loyal. Loyal. Loyal. Yeah. Sacrifice.

Yeah.

They're still getting up in the morning to train harder than everybody else. Even though they've got hundreds of millions of dollars, they're still making that sacrifice. So number three is loyalty. Number four is. I called it mental toughness. But for young people, it's about resilience. Increasing your threshold of resilience. Mental and emotional resilience. Mental toughness. They all have it in those Big moments. They will make the play. They will. The tough guy, number five. Follow your dreams. Now, you don't have to be a 15 year old or a 12 year old to have dreams. You know, I'm 56 and I've still got dreams. Yes, I'm still following them. So maybe the answer an hour ago when you said, what drives you, Carl? I got some dreams that I want to try and fulfill and it's what gets me up in the morning. Do they have to be massive dreams? Well, no, maybe. The most powerful outcome of any dream is to have a loving family and feel good about yourself. That's an ambition to have in itself. But you have to follow your dreams. Once that passion's gone, time to do something else. And the last one is hard work. Number six. You know, with an athlete, you'd assume hard work's first. No, hard work only just gets on there. It only just scrapes on. Because any fool can work hard, Alex. Any fool can work hard. But are they humble? No. He's a cockhead. No. Is he making a sacrifice? You know what, he works hard, but it could be so much better. He's just not making a sacrifice. You've known players like that, Alex. Is he loyal? Nah, he's not that loyal. So they'll never become a high achiever. Any fool can work hard, but it's important. But if you're humble, you're willing to make a sacrifice, you're really loyal to yourself and the people around you, you can develop that mental toughness. You've got a passion and a dream that burns in your belly and you're willing to work harder. I'm telling you, you will get to the top. Yeah. And on the way, you will pass so many more talented people than you. You leave them in the wake. Yeah. The world is full of talented overachiever. Sorry, the world is full of talented underachievers. Yeah. But I'm telling you, from my experience, this is only my experience over 25 years, being privileged enough to work with some of the best athletes in the world. They're all strong, they're all fast, they're all fit, they're all skillful. But the best of the best, they're humble, willing to make a sacrifice. They're loyal, the mentally tough, they've got that passion, that dream in the pit of the belly, and they're willing to work hard at it. So that's where Super 6 comes from. So when my young athletes come to the door, I teach them those skills. Now those skills will help Them become better young athletes, but more importantly, will change them as people through the rest of their lives. It's a powerful thing. So always coach behavior first. Somebody walks through the door, like, imagine, I don't care what backgrounds they come from. I have my standards for you schools. Yeah. This soft culture that we live in. Politically correct bullshit. Yeah. When these kids walk through my door, they just do what's right. I don't. They've got to be humble and they've got to have those behaviors. Otherwise they just walk out. I tell the parents to take them out. If the parent. I don't allow the parents in, but if the parents show them things that time to shut up and move out, I just tell them to go out my gym, don't want to come back, that's fine. You know, that's my world. I know it's right. So I always coach behavior first. When you actually coach behavior first, the differences in young people is literally amazing. And I didn't know how amazing it was gonna be. So maybe that was the reason why I survived Onyx. I don't know.

Yeah, it's. It's phenomenal, mate. And I love the way that you've laid it all out and you haven't laid it out through something you've read. It's collective everything, but one of the biggest things is his life experience. And Super 6, where could. I mean, there'd be heaps of obviously fathers listening to this and people with children. Where could they find out more info? Jenna, as you wrap this up, mate, with your Super 6 high performance program.

Look, you go through my Facebook page or my website, which I'm just changing at the moment because it's gone from like a face to face program to an online program. So that's all getting changed. We've just set up our online programs really good. So we've set something up. It's not about just exercise programs for kids that they can download. It's actually to support the kids while they're in isolation. So it's physical development, tutoring and mentoring other kids, planning wellness, everything that they need. So, look, just look for me on Facebook. And if people want to reach out. Yeah, they can reach to me through you, Alex. You know, you're looking after the dads, I'm looking after the kids who may meet halfway somewhere. I don't know.

That's right. Exactly.

I don't know.

Just look for the man who's been one of the key roles in. Who was it? The Bradford Bulls? The Penrith Panthers? The Canberra Raiders, Crusaders, Warriors, Great Britain. And you've. And you've played. No, sorry, played. You've, you've, I guess, well represented your country in two sports.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm a proud overachiever, Alex.

Incredible.

Yeah. Proud overachiever.

Walt had more. Carl Jennings would be better for it, that's for sure, mate.

Or more Alex Ranieres. What a loving work. We've got a big loving going on here, aren't we?

Final thoughts. Jenna, if there's a father out there listening to this and he's either a little bit unsure of himself or where his head's at, or like we've spoken about transitions to families, would it just be a good piece of advice, just something simple or something for them, you know, maybe as much between the years as in the heart that he can just sort of analyse or use or something that you find might work for a dad out there who's struggling a little bit.

I think it's a tough question, that one, Alec. Very, very good question. A very tough question. Very tough question. Look, ultimately for me, I can only speak from my experience and my experience when I was going through a tough time, it was about self reflection, but not reflecting on all the myth. Yeah, the myth. But actually reflecting on who I was as a person. So even though when all those really traumatic things are going on around you actually understanding that, you know, I'm actually a good person. Yeah, I'm a good person. I might be creating a situation where I might be misunderstood because of my behaviors. So look, if you're in an environment and you're affecting that in a negative way through your behaviors, change your behaviors. Just try. Just see what happens when you try that. Try to be more positive. Try to have some self reflection. I know athletes do this all the time. This is part review and preview of the performance. Daily and weekly is a powerful thing for an athlete. It's also a really powerful thing for an everyday person. Nothing wrong with that is to actually review your day and review your behaviors. Do you have to sit there for two hours? No, you probably need to sit there for 10 minutes or even five minutes at the end of the day and just say, look, how did I perform today as a father at work? Is this stuff in my. My ability to change this? Will it make a difference if I change? Well, let's just try tomorrow what I'm going to do. I'm not going to. I'm going to have some breakfast before I go to work. So I'm not, you know, I've got the energy to do a better job. There's a dickhead at work. I'm just going to choose not to listen to them. I've got a really hard day's work planned. Well, no, I'm going to prepare for it, I'm going to try and enjoy it and when I come home I'm going to make the decision just to be calm and you know. So I think the most important thing is about self reflection. Just spending a bit of time to think about who you are, who you actually are as a person and just look, you just gotta absorb the responsibility, you know, if you're a dad, I truly believe that's your role in life. Yeah, yeah, I truly believe that. You know, and even if your relationship's struggling goes back to state, doesn't it? Goes back to clarity and connection and communicating. Just communicate the God say, just be cute, make the sacrament, be humble enough and make the sacrifice enough to be a leader within the family and take the first step forward in communication because there's another person opposite you that's probably at one stage you love them. Yeah, that's probably in as much pain as you. That is struggling just as much as you. But communication resolves everything at the end of the day, you know, so it's, it's about trying to self reflection, you know, what do I truly want out of life and learning how to communicate better. It's, it's a powerful thing using behaviors to match.

I love it. It's incredible. I always speak with the dads about habits, routines, rituals, patterns, but it's behaviours is a great one because behave so what you're doing, your actions and how can you change. Very wise words mate, very wise words. I'll leave that there. And I'm absolutely going to get you in for a session with the dads inside of rdm, that's for sure.

Maybe for you, Alex, because with my online program we have team training. So the team training for the kids is zoom sessions. So what we do, we, we get all the kids on and we don't talk about how's your training going, we talk about how they're feeling in isolation because kids are struggling at the moment. They've got no teammates, they've got no schoolmates, they're at home on their own trying to study themselves just flipping hard, you know. So last week we had Luke Lewis on talking to them about his sporting career. But maybe we could ask you to talk to them as what you're doing about being a good role model and what that means, you know, you know, so maybe you could talk to the athlete, maybe you could think about somebody to spend 10 minutes, they can ask you some questions, you know, I'd be honoured, mate.

Especially if you wanted to connect that with some of the hard things I had to go through, probably at their age, without the Internet or without, I guess, certain privileges that we have.

It'd be a really powerful thing, you know, A really powerful thing, Alex, because some of my young athletes, and I won't point them out to you, but some of them are in, like, emergency care, so they've gone through holy hell. They've gone through some adversity, God love them, you know, but they've come through the other side, you know, they've really come through the other side now, the good young people, because they've had some good mentorship. So, yeah, maybe we should do that.

Sounds good, mate. You're an incredible man, Jenna, and a powerful leader in all aspects of life, mate. I can't see any other way to sum you up. It's been a privilege to. To have you on today and thanks for joining us, mate.

Nice. It's always great to talk, Alex, and it's great to see you and see how much you've developed from, you know, from a boy to a man, really, which is. Which is an amazing thing. Good on you, Matt.

Appreciate it, mate. And thank you guys for joining us. Hope you got a lot of value out of this and look forward to coming out at some stage in the future with part two where we'll definitely dive into a couple other areas with Jenna and some incredible value that he has to offer, that's for sure.