87. Confidence Became King For Ben

Another day. Another day.

Yeah.

Thanks for joining us, mate.

No worries.

Guys. Welcome to another episode Real Dad Movement podcast. We've got Ben Skinner, one of our locals.

Yeah.

On the coast.

Coasty.

Yeah, coasty. It's the way we like it. No, we've got dads, actually. We've got our first Northern Territory dad the other day.

Really? Okay, nice.

So we've got one in every state and territory in the country. Even ACT is different as well, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

So we got. We've got a couple in there too. I think at least one Chris Head. But mate, thanks for taking time out of your day. Joining us, those who are listening to this or watching this, Ben Skinner's been.

With RDM for 12 months. 12 months on the dot, pretty much. Yeah.

That's right. Start of the year. And mate, what a. What a journey so far. Yeah, yeah, we'll obviously dive into it, but Ben's a local, runs his own business now. I don't think you were at the start, but you're looking at getting into that, is that right?

Yeah. So I've always wanted to run my own business, but for whatever reasons, not enough confidence or something would happen and I just put it, put it behind me, put to the side for another day type thing. So, yeah, I work for someone and that was like a side job that I had an aspiration to start up my own business and have my own workshop. But as always, just sort of put to the side most of the time.

Yeah, that should be the name. You guys should be excited for this episode. I am. Confidence is king, we should call that. It really is. When you've got the right environment and you're taking action, that's a big thing, isn't it? Yeah, if you're confident and jovial in that nature, but you do fuck all with your life or you're either just arrogant or you've got an ego or you eventually get found out. Perfect example. I don't know how you were with school, but for me with high school, a lot of the big dogs, so to speak, who either went through puberty early or had all the chat done. Fuck all with our life after school. Yeah, isn't it funny? But mate, talk to us. How's it been over the last 12 months? Like from. From where you were to where you are now. But how have you found your journey with rdm?

Yeah, so probably going back to the start. I grew up in a small country town on the Mid North Coast, New South Wales and left school in year 10. Got an apprenticeship building boats. And the romantic idea of building boats sounds nice but the reality of it is all the crawling around in fiberglass, getting that all in your skin, that's not so romantic after a couple of days. So I left that, moved to Sydney. Just before I turned 17 I got a job making beautiful custom made timber furniture. So like dovetail drawers and things like that. So yes. So from then I got married at 21, beautiful wife Catherine and kids started coming along not long after that. And so living in Sydney we, we owned a one bedroom unit in dy. And then when the kids started coming along, like, oh, we don't want to bring up our kids in a one bedroom box. So decided to buy a house. So looking on northern beaches property, you know, it's pretty, yeah, it's skyrocketing now but at that stage we could have just afforded one but it would have been a stretch. So then we decided to look up the coast here. Houses were a bit more affordable and offered a bit more of a lifestyle that we wouldn't have had if we stayed on the beaches. And then once we made that decision, I told my boss what my plans were. Buy a house up the coast and move up here. And you know, that was my intention. I'd find a job up here eventually. So this is, this is leading to how I got to where we are now. And so he offered, he came back the next day and he offered me a really good pay rise, cover all my travel expenses and work a four day week. So that's like, you know, that's go, you can't knock that back.

Traveling to the coast?

Yeah. Long weekend? Yeah, every Friday off, long weekend every week. So that was fantastic. You know, that was a good balance of working and life and it was a young family and you know, you get to spend that, that three days together was really good. And then after that I got another job offer, same deal, pay rise, four days a week, all my petrol and everything covered. And so I took that as well. I was working for, he was my best friend, he just started up his own workshop and his business was going gangbusters. So he's like come over, work for me, you know, be the foreman, get off the tools, more money, four days a week, you know, it's no brainer. So that was great as well. But then over time that four days became five days. So I was working 50 plus hours a week plus three hours each day commuting. So 15 hours a week commuting on top of that. And when you're in that environment, he's Italian, so he's very passionate and the, the atmosphere in that place was like really exciting. So if I wasn't there, I felt like I was missing out. So I just worked harder and worked more hours because it's just a fantastic place to work and I loved it. You know, you felt as part of the family, so. And once you're in that situation, I treated that business as my own. So I worked harder, did everything I could to help my mate and his business succeed. And then, you know, working hard, you get the rewards, you know, the praise and, or the ego that comes along with, you know, doing really good things. But also on top of that, the commuting, because you'd work all day, you'd be flat out, you would eat here and there, have a few coffees to get you through, but then when you're driving home, because I'd leave at 5 o' clock in the morning and I wouldn't get home till 7 o', clock, 7:30 at night. So really long days, not eating well during the day. And then when things are calming down, you're in the car going, oh, I'm starving. So what do you do? You stop at the servo, get a packet of chips, bottle of coke, pull into Maccas, get a quarter pound of meal, something like that. And growing up, I was always very active as a kid. Riding BMXs, skateboards, playing soccer, basketball, surfing. And then when we moved to Sydney, kept surfing before work, after work, played in a men's basketball comp at night, during the week. So always active and, you know, staying on top of all that. But when we moved up to the coast, all that stopped because of the long hours. I would get home at night, have dinner at 8 o', clock, then fall asleep on the couch by 9 o', clock and then get up at 5 o', clock, do it all again week after week. And then eventually over time I'd. So that was about a nine year period and I put on probably 10 to 15 kilos. And because my role at work had changed too, I was off the factory floor making stuff. I was more of a foreman role. So I was sitting on the computer, on the phone, driving around to different sites. Yeah, less active. The mind's going crazy, that's over overworking, but my body's just pretty, not doing anything really at all. And then on top of that piling in all this rubbish food and yeah, I just blew out. I found that on the weekends when I did get home and have some time with the family. I was irritable. Every chance I got, I'd be asleep. And then that cycle just kept going week after week. And yeah, eventually I sort of had like a. I would call it like a nervous breakdown. Just because my body was just firing all the time or asleep, you know, mine was always working or was doing nothing.

Yeah, when you're high performer, mate, in those sorts of roles, but you're not active or having the time to look after yourself, it can become. We speak about this as chaos. There's always, you know, as a father. Sorry, as a man, we wear lots of hats. Fatherhood's one of them. And then you have four kids.

Three kids.

Three kids, yeah. So, you know, it's having three myself now. I could see it's like. And it's not the two isn't hard, it's just. Yeah, you know, it's mounds to feed, lots of moving parts. There's chaos everywhere, mate. Which means with that comes stress. Which means if there's a lack of self investment, there's less energy to handle, the time management you need to handle and the limited time you have, which changes your mind, your body, everything, mate. When you talk about the breakdowns like that, it's crazy, isn't it, how it can just come about when you're blinking. You're active in high school and all of a sudden you're traveling to Sydney, you're putting in big hours, you're trying to build a future for your family, but it's coming at the cost of you.

Yeah.

What happened, mate? So not to interrupt you, I mean, that was a great intro. Appreciate you sharing that, Ben, especially for these guys watching. Because you're not alone. The chaos, the stress, all that sort of stuff. You guys need to know that you're the ones listening to this. It's. It's part of all of our lives. But what separates us, you know, what's the difference? But I'd love to know, like, what led to once that breakdown happened, mate. What did you do?

Yeah, so I think I was driving home one night up the freeway and the drivers on the M1 coming from Sydney to the coast are just maddening. And I got to a stage where I would leave the workshop and then drive an hour and a half and walk in my front door and not remember driving home. So I better put my key in the front lock and I'm like, what? And realised I'm at home and I can't remember driving an hour and a half. And so eventually I got walked in one night and said to my wife, said, look, I'm done. I'm just too stressful. Whenever I get a text message or a phone call because I was the problem solver, whenever someone had a problem out on site or in the factory or whatever, I was the go to guy to fix the problem or to guide them on the next move type thing. So every time my phone rang, it was 90% of the time it was a problem that I had to solve. So whenever I got that ding, ding, it was like, oh, you know, I'd have like a mini panic attack because. And so I said to my wife, look, I'm done. I just can't handle this anymore. Yeah. And so she goes, yep, I know you should have, should have realized this, you know, years ago. And because she's at home with, at that stage, two kids and, you know, I'm working in Sydney, an hour and a half away, she's running the house, doing everything. And then I come home late at night, grumpy, irritable, go off at the kids for the smallest thing, you know, just in my head I'm going, look, I'm working so hard to provide for this family and do everything, you know, be really selfish, really. And so I was like, I'm doing all this for you guys, but then when I'm in their presence, I'm going off at them and, you know, just don't want to have any part of it. It's like, you know, go work it out, go in your room, you know, go sort your problems out, go to your mother type thing.

Hard, isn't it? Because it can become a chronic habit, man. Yeah, we, we love our wives, we want the best for them, we want to look after them. But I mean, mate, tell us surely that like most things and most people in that environment long enough. Yeah. Probably would have created some strain and struggle with your relationship with her and relationship with your kids.

Yeah. So after we had that sort of conversation saying, look, I can't handle this anymore, so I rang up my friend and resigned. And he understood and he's like, yeah, I've noticed, you know, you've been struggling lately with everything. And because his business grew so quick, as his business grew, we all just sort of grew along with it. And the role that I was doing after I left was taken over by three other guys. And then so I resigned, picked up a job on the coast and just there's five minutes down the road. So it was a nice, you know, 10 minutes after I knocked off in the afternoon, I was at Home so we could spend time at the park because the kids were starting to ride bikes and everything like that. So. Yeah, so for a couple of years there it was nice, just working local and no pressure, no responsibilities like I had before. Yeah, so just a couple of years there of. Yeah, things going along really smooth and sort of refreshed a bit, lost a little bit of weight after I stopped commuting and eating all that rubbish on the way home. And yeah, it's probably a time that.

Was needed to rejuvenate, I guess, mate, because you've been burning yourself for so long.

Yeah.

I think I remember you telling me about your Italian mate. He what? Loves. Just curious, just not to go off your story, but just the, the principles behind it. What led to him having that massive success? Was it just trying to micro tweak? Was there something that might be similar in what you see in rdm? Just constantly refining little bits to continually improve and get better or how did that happen?

Yeah, well, he's an amazing guy. Growing up in high school, he was like the black duck, you know, he was a bit of an outsider, but he was so passionate by everything he did. He did 110% and then some. And so whatever he turns his hand to, he's focused on that and if there's a problem, he would adjust. Okay, that didn't work. Let's try this, see if that works. Yep, that works. All right, let's go full steam ahead. And he's constantly changing and improving things and yeah, he's, he's not stuck on this is the way we do it. This is how it's going to be forever. He's always constantly just change, just tweaking little things here and there and improving his systems and the way he does stuff. And yeah, he's just done a phenomenal build, a phenomenal business and yeah, he's doing really well.

It's an important part of life though, mate. People, people resent change, right? But that's because they haven't built themselves up or they don't have the focus or awareness to apply the energy to influence the change, regardless of the level of control they have on it. You're a perfect example. You could have kept doing the same job, mate, and you could have fallen apart and been completely fucked. Really?

Yeah.

You didn't. You change and you recognize that and realize that there's a way to create some changes in your life, which there's a big part of RDM when we're looking at investing yourself having that flexibility to Change the circumstances. People will be listening to this. Dads will be listening to this and be like, oh yeah, I am like, Ben, I live in Newcastle or I live in Wollongong and I drive up to Sydney or I live in Penrith and I drive into the city and awesome. You know, good for you. But if you're happy with that, great, accept it. You know. But a lot of guys say, no, no, I just have to do it. It's like, well, no you don't. That's your belief system. You think that you're not worthy of finding a better job. You believe that you have to travel that much for work. And all these belief systems, they're not a right or wrong, it's just ownership over them, isn't it, mate?

Yeah, that's it.

You know, and there's always ways that we can create time. And I guess I think I asked you that question maybe yesterday, the other day, like, how much do you think. And we will talk about your journey with rdm, but how much do you think this has freed up your time and your energy to apply better value to the time you have since joining rdm?

Yeah, so before I would always in my head, I thought I was flat out all the time because while I've been working for this other guy on the side, I was starting to develop my own business on the side as well. So basically working two jobs. So I always thought I was busy. I was either working, making stuff, making furniture, or I was at home doing quoting or stuff around the house. So in my head, like I'm flat out 24 hours a day type thing. But in reality I would zone out on the couch. I'd get home from work and just sit on the couch, scroll through Facebook or Instagram for an hour or two.

Watching my videos, watching your videos and.

Then, you know, spend a bit of time for the kids. And you know, there's a lot of wasted time where you think you're busy doing things, but you're not really. You just sort of. Yeah. Existing and. Yeah. So since joining rdm, that, that sort of wasted time that I used to spend scrolling on the phone, watching Netflix or, or whatever, now it's better spent, you know, going for a walk around the block, going for a run through the, through the bush, doing all that sort of sort of thing. And I think just before I joined, well, the reason I joined rdm because once again I was building up my own business on the side, burning candles at both end, getting working two full time jobs basically. And I got to the end of the year and I was exhausted again. So that busyness that I had previously, my last job, I'd sort of worked up to again. So I was flat out, I was irritable. I'd work from 5 o' clock in the morning till 8 or 9 o' clock at night, not eat properly, stop at Macca's on the way home. So that cycle was happening again and I got to the end of the year. So Christmas holidays and this is 2019, and I was just sat on the couch for pretty much three weeks and I think I watched like five episodes, five seasons of Ice Road Truckers. So I'm literally, I was exhausted. Like, I got three beautiful kids who wanted me to play with them, take them out, and all I can manage is to sleep in late, wake up, have a coffee, sit on the couch and watch six seasons of Ice Road Truckers. That's my Christmas holiday break, right? Just hanging out to go back to work in the end of January and be flat out again. So I was sitting there and I'm like, what am I doing?

You know?

And we. And you say quite often, what's the alternative? So I'm sitting there looking at my Netflix thing saying, you've watched all this tv and I'm going, what am I doing? Like, I got no energy, I'm exhausted, I'm 41. What am I going to be like at the end of next year? What am I going to be like in 5 years, 10 years time? Like, what's the alternative to sitting here feeling like a bag of sack of potatoes with no energy, no sort of drive to do anything? Yeah, so that's where I was. And then scrolling on Facebook, your video came up. And then. So I watched it, I was, oh, what's this guy on about? You know, dad, Real dad movement. So I watched it and everything he said in that video was like, me. He's like, you know, are you tired, overworked, struggling with your, you know, your Mrs. And family and all this type of thing? Do you want some, you know, energy? And everything you said in that video is like, oh, man, you just described me exactly where I'm at at the moment. So then I sent off the email and we spoke on the phone and, and went from there.

Rest is history, mate.

That's it.

12 months on, 12 months on, you've got your own business. And how is life treating you across all areas?

Yeah, it's great. So since I think so the first. When I first started rdm, I filled out like my weekly, what I ate during the week. So I wrote out my normal week which was, you know, wake up, have some four wheat Bix with honey, a coffee, morning tea would be peanut butter sandwiches. On a Friday at work we'd have hamburgers or pies, sausage rolls. On Friday lunchtime would be peanut butter sandwiches. I'd come home, eat a box of Jats, probably have another coffee, sit on the couch and fall asleep. Maybe because I was trying to sort of develop my business as well. So all that pressure. I'm not a big alcohol drinker, but I started over the previous year just having one, two beers every night. And then on weekends. Yeah, just having two or three and then. Yeah, so I fill that in and then your reply to me was, ben, I've looked at your diet, mate. You're eating like one of your kids.

I was gonna say that's a good, that's a good routine for a 10 year old.

Yeah. You said you're a man, you gotta eat like a man. And I'm like, oh, I thought that was all right. Weedpix is okay, isn't it? Yeah. And that realization is like, yeah, bloody hell I am. I'm eating like my 12 year old son. And here I am expanding all this energy, trying to build this business and work hard and look after the family and all these things and I'm eating like a, like a 12 year old.

I got fucking tears, man. I'm cracking up. It's just, and not for you personally, it's just, it's crazy, right? We don't think that we need energy to produce energy. Yeah, mate, it's, yeah, it's, it's unreal, isn't it? Only. And I'm laughing as well, those who are listening or watching because obviously I've seen the other end where he is now. But so many like that though, mate. Yeah, yeah, that's right. We started building out your road map and away we went.

Yeah. So then you're like, mate, you need to, you know, have a decent breakfast for lunch. You need to have some red meat, some steaks, some chicken breasts, mashed potatoes, rice, all that sort of stuff. You know, you need to start putting some fuel in the tank, you know, to drive the engine. I'm running on empty, basically. And yeah, so within, you know, two weeks, my energy levels just switched on and was 100% on, on what I was previously.

What about the routines, like the habits that we've built out start to give you more time with what you're doing as well, for yourself, for your family? Like, you do bush runs, trails, what you do with the kids, you know, it's amazing, mate. You know, hashtag, maintain the rage. It's inspiring, man. Like, to see that shift and you run your own business. Like, the freedoms.

Yeah.

The responsibilities, they're always there. But it's unreal, mate. It really is.

Yeah. So previously, I probably would have. I'd look for the magic pill. So I'd look for, like, the quick fix, the. The easiest way to get the maximum benefit. But trying those things, it wouldn't last. Last. Well, I'd stick to it for, like, six months, but it didn't work. I had less energy than when I started, so I'd give it up and then move on. So I was always looking like, I. I want to lose weight, but I just try and cheat around it, you know, without putting any effort in. It's like, if I could snap my fingers and lose all the weight, then I'd be good, you know, or make up excuses. Oh, when this happens, I'll do this. And then that snowballs into actually doing nothing. And so when I started rdm, you got my food organized, so putting fuel in the tank and the way I thought about food totally changed. So before, when I'd eat. You'd eat to fill a hole, you know, oh, I'm hungry. I need to fill that hole. So I just chuck whatever in there. But then realizing that the food is your energy, that's what gives you your power. So I'm like, okay, well, what I'm putting in my body is giving me energy. So it's like putting E10 in or premium, you know? And so I started thinking about food differently, as not eating for the sake of eating, but eating to give me the energy so I can do what I want to do.

Yeah, eat to perform. Absolutely. You know, I've heard a lot of nutritionists bag that out as well. Like, you know, it's not like fuel for the car. It works so much differently. And, yeah, whatever works for them, but in a way that. That brings context so you understand and value it. Fucking bang on, man. Because it is the truth.

Absolutely, yeah. Because I tried before, because you think to lose weight, you got a diet, so eat less, you know, to lose the weight. But in eating less, you got less energy, so you don't feel like going out and exercising and doing all that sort of thing. So by eating more, I had the energy there to go out and. And start running. So I think I started off just walking around the block. I do maybe three or four k's every night. And then I started jogging around the block and then I ended up started doing the park runs on the Saturday morning. So 5K's every Saturday. And then now I go and then Covid hit. So everything went into shutdown and everything stops. So around our house have all these beautiful trails. There's all national parks, state forests, there's all these beautiful tracks in there. So I started discovering these places and going for runs and yeah, I love it. But you get out there and what I like about the trail runs is because you're on this little, little pathway and down this side it's like cliff and then this side is all rock and it just really narrows your focus. So because you get out there and you want. Your head's full of everything going on, but once you get out there on this little narrow trail and there's trees swishing past you, it just really. Your focus really narrows in onto the path in front of you and everything just goes out of your mind. You're just concentrating on where your feet are going. There's boulders, you're jumping over logs here. So at the end of the trial run, your heart's pumping, your head's clear and it just feels great.

I'm actually going to make a note of that focus, like focus equals presence, doesn't it? Because when you focus, you are then present in the moment in life. Which means you have control over the type of tunnel vision that you choose. Like what you said when you go down those trial runs and how do you feel after you do. Yeah, as opposed to watching season seven of Ice Truck?

Yes. Oh, fantastic, mate. Yeah, it's really good. Yeah. And then throwing in on top of that, the workouts that on trainerize and all that sort of stuff. So I get out on our back deck and do the home workouts. And then you know, my. I've got two boys and they come out and they start doing push ups and running around star jumps and all the different things. And so yeah, you can see it through. You know, the kids seeing me going out because I, I usually go out at night to do my runs during the weekday. And then on the weekends I go out into the bush and do like a trail run on a Saturday and Sunday morning. And yeah, so seeing the kids get involved and, and then, you know, they go, come on Dasko, kick the ball down at the park. And whereas before I'd go, no, I'm too busy, I gotta, I got all these, this work to do. Now it's like, oh yeah, right, let's go. Come on, get the ball. Let's go. And, yeah, so spending more time with them as well, as well as me getting out there and running around, it's really good.

How does it make you feel, mate, to see that? You've had that ripple effect where even training exercise, push ups become standard for your sons.

Yeah, no, it's really good. Yeah. Because otherwise, you know, what's the alternative? They're in their. They're on the PlayStation or watching movies and just sitting around staring at a screen. Whereas. Really good. Like my son, he's gone for a bike ride today, but last night he didn't want to because yesterday they went for a bike ride. He's got this little BMX gang that he hangs around in. They build jumps in the stuff, but they've recently got into Pokemon Go again. So his friends just want to ride around catching Pokemon, whereas my son's like, oh, no, I just want to go and do jumps and. And things like that. So he's. He's going, I don't want to just stare at my screen now. I want to go ride bikes and go to the skate park and. And do all that type of thing.

That's amazing, man. It's incredible. And you are. This is the big thing. You know, even Dad's listening or watching this. Like you are through your own legacy, you're helping them build theirs. Yeah, it's not. It's not a heavy thing. Can be if you're on your deathbed.

And you're filled with regret.

Probably the heaviest thing ever, but it's not, mate. So it's a beautiful opportunity. Like what you were saying earlier, I was entertaining that thought. I was thinking about it. I was like, you know, the alternative, you just keep doing that, going to the path. Like, what a horrific feeling, mate. Knowing that before you're even 50, you have no idea how your life's going to turn out. Like, that's one of the craziest things ever. And it's not. I'm not pinpointing that on you. I'm just saying the alternative to change and becoming better and more. And those listening who may feel the same may take some notes because this is. This is your life. Yeah. There are so many things like Covid and lots of other that we can't control. I get that. But what we can control in ourselves, that we know, but we don't, man. You know, I used to tippy toe as my latest podcast, Sedation and Distraction. And I used to tippy toe around a little bit because People would look at what we're talking about here with Netflix or other things or what I openly say a lot. I don't watch TV and don't read or watch the news or read newspapers or really listen to radios or anything. That takes away my time and focus. I laugh every day. I have lots of fun. It's not like I'm a hermit and this is all I do. But I value my time so much, mate, that that doesn't hold a role for me. And people will look at that and go, that's extreme. I laugh at those comments, but people will say, yeah, but I don't want to sacrifice it. I like to watch a little bit TV here and there. And I'm like, well, is it a sacrifice? Like, if you want to become a better version of yourself, it's not a sacrifice at all, is it, mate? By making some of these changes.

Yeah, I think you put a post up about sacrifice. Like, you hear, if you want to get fit, you ought to sacrifice all this stuff. And then I laughed because it's like, what are you sacrificing being, you know, tired, non energetic, sitting on the couch. That's not a sacrifice.

It's crazy, isn't it? Like, it's a sacrifice if you don't.

That's it.

Of what you can become.

Yeah, yeah.

And like I said, I used to tippy toe around it, but like that, you know, if you come to me, say, I don't have any time now, but then we do an audit on your life and showcase your bleeding, which we find is a common theme. All of our dads get two to three hours back a day. That's a lot, man. That's a lot of life. And it's with purpose, with more energy. Yeah, that's a shitload more life.

Yeah.

It's like, well, if you're not willing to give up things that don't serve you, then that's the color of man I don't want in our environment, the end. And I won't tippy toe around that stuff anymore either, mate. Each of their own, don't judge people for it. But that, like, you're not good enough to rise up and evolve into the man that we can and you should and could become as well. And. And I'll finish on this note with anyone who wants to argue it if that's the case and that's your truth. Awesome. You tell me, Ben, would you kick back on your deathbed reminiscing about all the amazing fucking TV shows you watch, mate, while you're looking at your children and grandchildren's eyes for the last time.

No, mate. No, not at all.

No fucking way. No way. Food for thought, you know, like, how has this changed? Because we talked right at the start about confidence. How's this changed your life in terms of confidence, your business, like where you're. Where you are now and where you're actually going, mate. Like your next vision for 20, 21 and beyond.

Yeah. So after getting my energy levels back, I've always been at school. I was the quiet kid growing up. I've always. Because I was always the youngest in the class. I'm the youngest of three boys. I got two older brothers. So I don't know if it's because I was, you know, the baby of the family or something like that. I was always sort of looked after. So I've always been a bit quiet, a bit reserved, like, I'll work hard and do the best I can. And I found what I was doing because over the years, like, I was always the last person to leave. If the job had to get finished, I'd stay back and get it done. That sort of attitude. And we grew up going to church. I played guitar. So every Sunday I was there serving every week, whenever there was an event on, I'd be there helping set up, get everything organized, looking fantastic, doing whatever I could. But I realized only last year that a lot of. A lot of things that I did to serve other people was I liked the praise that I would get because I'm a bit quiet. I'm not out there, you know, waving my own flag. So I work quietly in the background, doing all the background stuff. And then people go, oh. My bosses would go, oh, look at Ben. He comes in when he's sick. Oh, look at Ben. He comes in on Saturdays to get the job done. Oh, look at Ben. He's this example of working hard. And I'm like, yeah, that's feeding my ego. You know, I like that I don't have to be all boisterous and look at me. But just going about my business, doing what I do, it's like I'm getting that praise and that little slap on the back, job well done. And then after joining RDM and raising my energy levels, and then after that, growing in confidence as I'm seeing my body change because I'm doing some exercise, going running, eating well, my body's changing. Bit more confidence in myself. I came to realize that a lot of what I was doing was to get that praise. That's where I Got my energy from before because I'd be dog tired, worked a massive week, but then I'd go in and do help someone out to do whatever, and they're like, oh, yeah, thanks, Ben. Oh, Ben's reliable. Ben's, you know, if you need something done, call Ben, because he'll do it, you know. And that came to the detriment of my own family. Like, my wife and kids would miss out because they'd meet me at home, like, oh, no, so, and so has asked me to do this, so I've got to go and help out type thing. But then as my confidence in myself grew, I'm like, I'm only doing it a lot of the time to get that praise because that, I feed off that. And it's like, oh, yeah, that's what keeps me going. But as I grew in confidence, I'm like, I don't need that. Just having, doing my own thing, being happy in myself is. It's enough, you know, I don't need other people's praise. I don't need other people telling me, good job, you're the hardest worker, etc. Etc. And after I realized that, just my confidence grew. And then, so when people ask me to do something, say, oh, no, I can't help you, I've got this on, you know, spending time with my family, I'm going for a run, you know, I've got other things on resources. Whereas before, I'm like, oh, I've got to say yes. Because if I don't say yes, they'll think, oh, Ben's letting the team down type thing. And then so after I realized that, my confidence grew. And then with my business. I've always wanted to start a business, but I probably lacked maturity and confidence. So I try and set the wheels in motion. So at the end of 2019, I was looking at setting up a workshop. So we went through the real estate, did all the negotiations, agreed on a price, everything's going ahead. I went out, the guy goes, yep, your offer's been accepted. Sign the paperwork, send it in, you're all good. So, beauty, I'm finally doing this, you know. And then a couple of weeks went past. I went out and bought all this machinery, woodworking machinery, and I said to my wife, said, oh, do you want to just chase up the real estate agent, see when we can get the keys? And he goes, she rang him up and he goes, oh, sorry, we've given that to someone else. And so I'm like, oh, okay. I've sort of stepped out to try and, you know, do something bigger and better than myself. And I just been, oh, I'm knocked down. So then I retreated, you know, back into my shell. Quiet. I'm destined to just work for somebody else. Every time I try and rise above, I just get knocked down. You know, this is my role in life, just to be the servant, you know, to be the guy who backs up the other person who's out there charging forward and. Yeah, but after realizing, you know, that nothing's ever just given to us. Easy. And as you say, 1%, you do one thing each day to improve yourself. So over time, it's like 1%. Okay, well, I lost that factory. Let's just sit back and reassess. And then another opportunity came up. And then instead of going, oh, no, I've been burnt before, I'm like, oh, yeah, bring it on. All right, yeah, that sounds good. Let's. Let's. Let's get into it. And then. So we start going down that path, and then there's a hurdle. Something comes up. This. I. I bought this panel saw, but because of COVID and everything got shut down. They said, look, we either have to deliver it or we have to sell it to someone else, and you're not getting your money back. And I'm like, well, mate, there's everything shut down. I don't know what's happening. You're just gonna have to sell it. So I. I come to the realization I'm going to lose all my money on this machinery, right? And then. And then things started going along, and they're like, oh, hang on. This opportunity's come up. Hang on, mate, you know, don't sell that. He's, oh, too late. It's gone. So, oh, okay, then I'll retreat again, you know, another hurdle. But then now, when those hurdles come up, I've got the. The strength in myself to go, oh, this is great. A hurdle. That means I'm making progress. So I jump the bloody hurdle, then run along. Things are smooth for a little while, and then something else comes up. A little roadblock. And then I'm like, oh, okay, there's another problem to solve. And instead of retreating like I would before and going, oh, I can't do this. I'm not worthy of bettering myself, or it's for other people to succeed, and I'm just here to. As a backup, I'm like, oh, stuff you. I'm jumping that hurdle. So jump that hurdle. Run along. Keep going. Another hurdle. Now I'm like, look forward to the Hurdles, because that means you're moving forward, you're doing stuff. You're not just sitting back and letting life happen to you. You're taking charge of your own, you know, your own trail and pushing forward. So now I love it. Yeah.

That's awesome, mate. And great, great way to explain it too, you know, like the. We don't. We don't invite the hurdles into our life, but we welcome them when they arrive, you know, because we know on the other side of that is a better version of who we are.

Yeah.

That's the truth, mate. And it's funny that everything you're saying there, a lot of it aligns with the patterning of myself. I was three. Number three out of four kids, but the fourth, he was like eight, nine years after me. So I was the baby of the family. To all the brothers who are love me and I love them, but obviously all the brothers are older brothers, you know, And I always felt that I just needed this steady hand on my shoulder going, everything can be all right, Al. You're doing a good job, mate. Well done. Keep going. Blah, blah, Ownership without ownership sort of thing. You know, like, you treated, like you said, your mates business as if it was your own, but it was always to the. To the craving of getting that validation, you know, so it's a funny feeling, too. Cause it's so lucrative in that moment, isn't it?

Yeah.

And then that moment becomes part of your makeup, becomes your character trait. All of a sudden, the blinkers come on to the burning fire in the house. That is the family.

Yes.

Or, you know, important parts of your family or your life that we. That we neglect, mate. To keep chasing that perceived reward.

Yeah.

And to see you break out of that with lots of different hurdles of what 2020 brought is. That's amazing, man. Like, you should be proud of yourself. It really is. And that's not to say anyone. We've got heaps of dads who are employees. Awesome. You know, but they've built and grown within that organization or they're finding a better way to perform and find fulfillment in what they do in their performances for themselves. And, yeah, that's unreal. That's awesome. But it's just great to see that. That's what we spoke about in our first phone call. I'd like to start my own business, go on my own. I remember our conversation. I remember all of them.

Yeah.

And to see that come to light or come to life and, you know, the fruits of that labor so far is awesome, mate.

Yeah. And Then it all happened in the middle of COVID So when, you know, places are closing down and people are becoming unemployed, like our kids were at home from school. And so we're out there, everyone's shut down, you know, everyone's bumping, bunkering down all this evil cove. It's gonna, you know, we can't step outside, we can't breathe the air, whereas we, it's not that we weren't sort of being responsible, you know, people of the community and just, you know, blazing through, but I'm like, I'm not gonna let that control my whole life. Sure, we've got to be aware and, you know, we'll wash our hands and do what we're supposed to do, but we were out there as a family, like bushwalking, discovering all these beautiful places away from everyone else who's stuck in their house, scared to death watching the, you know, the numbers go up and down. And then we're out there, like, looking over these beautiful waterways and the mountains and the trees. And we come home and like, me and my two boys dug up the veggie garden, made some, some veggie patches and we're just doing stuff like I was putting up posts on Instagram with the boys, like Real dad movement, you know, teaching my 10 year old how to cook sausages on the barbecue, you know, cooking class with dad, you know, or gardening with dad, you know, teaching the boys how to mow the lawns and all this stuff. So while everyone else is cowering, it's like, oh, this is our opportunity to thrive. And then in the middle of COVID all these opportunities for my business came up, all these jobs started coming in and I'm like, well, the world's telling me to, you know, bunker down and don't do anything, but all these opportunities come up if I don't do it now. I've never had a better opportunity than what's presenting itself to me now. I've just got to grab it and go with it. And sure that it might not work out in the long run, but I would be more upset if I just sat back and said, oh, no, I'm just going to play it safe. I'm getting a nice wage working for this guy. I'm more secure doing that. I'd be more upset if I retreated back to that old me that would have been comfortable working for someone that secure paycheck at the weekend, then realizing these opportunities that presented itself in front of me and just going, I'm just going to run with it. I'M going to give it everything I've got, all the time and effort I put into working for these other people, I can do that for myself and grow this. At the end of the day, if it doesn't work out, shut up shop, sell the machines, do whatever. But I don't think now I couldn't live with myself if I didn't try and just push forward and give it everything.

It's incredible, man. You are your, like, everyone needs to understand you are your greatest resource. So if you want security in your life, mate, expand, don't contract, don't contract. You know, like if, yeah, we built, we expanded in 2020 RDM, the foundations are bigger than ever again. I thought go time, I thought 2020 is go time. We go out and we execute and we produce and we get the rewards. It's like, no, no, actually this is the opportunity to build and even be bigger foundation with even bigger rewards. I'm not talking about money specifically. I'm talking about changing lives and impact and our coaching staff is bigger and better than ever. All these different things where the world said retract, find ways to survive, save and save. Spent more than ever on expanding, not on stupid things that don't matter, of course on investing in myself. And that's awesome to see that and that, that confidence that you're carrying through, like I said, it goes out in your family life, goes out near your kids, all three of them, not just your sons because they're obviously, you know, primal. I've got that with my little man now. It's going to be a different relationship to my two daughters. But it's, it's incredible to see that the household that you carrying this leadership mate really is because leadership is after the fact. It's never in the moment. You're never a leader in the moment because you're experiencing that moment. But afterwards when you reflect, it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I am standing up. I do have the balls to back my beliefs and, and build those beliefs. And where does it take you now, like heading into 2021, that confidence and leadership, mate, like what, what lays ahead for Ben moving throughout, you know, the decade of dads, year two of the, of this decade, where to mate from here?

I think it's just keep on trying to improve myself, to not just maintain what I'm doing now, but to grow in all areas of, you know, my nutrition and my relationship with food and meal prepping and all that type of thing, but also my mindset. So because I've, I've come from that being that quiet kid to starting to step out and with more confidence is just to keep growing that. And even because now I deal, you know, with a lot of builders and architects, designers, clients and all that sort of stuff, you sort of got to be out there and push yourself forward. You know, if you sit back and let things happen around you, you just get lost. So now it's. I'm just trying to develop that strong character to be able to, you know, stand up for myself, get my point across. Because I think you asked me to do a podcast maybe six months ago, maybe longer, and I was like, oh, no, yeah, I'm not ready.

That's good though. I was one of the people you said no to.

Yeah, I really want to do it, but, you know, what do I talk. I don't. My story's not that interesting or, you know, I'm just like, you know, I'm not good enough to, to do anything like that, you know. Yeah. So now that's, that's all gone and I'm just trying to. Yeah. Just build everything up around me. It was good. Like a couple of weeks ago, my daughter, she's about to turn 16 going into year 10, and all her friends are, you know, they're getting jobs at Baker's Delight and McDonald's and all those types of places. And we said, oh, do you want to, you know, do you want to get a job after school? What would you like to do? Do you want to work at Macca's? And she's like, no, I don't want to work there. What do you want to do? And I said, oh, I want to get into real estate. And so like a 16 year old telling you, oh, I want to get into real estate. And I was like, what, you serious? And so she's picked her courses for school and she's picked like commerce and all these different subjects. And I think my wife said to her, oh, don't you want to do this class because all your friends will be doing that? And she said, why would I want to do that? Just because everyone else is. And I just went over and gave, you know, the big high five. Okay, that is awesome. Like, keep that attitude because. Yeah, don't just follow everyone else because that's what they're doing. Tread your own path if you've got the confidence now at 16 to go. I don't want to pack shelves and take money at the windows at McDonald's. I want to get out and try and sell houses. Keep that attitude. And you'll smash it 100%, mate.

We crave and look for that herb mentality as social creatures being humans. But the standard or normal or average is pretty fucking lackluster in my opinion, mate, from what the world's putting out, from what we can do, you know, it's like, yeah, her mentality might be great in the right environment with a higher standard, AKA rdm, you know, like, absolutely. These are your standards. You want to be part of the pack. Unreal. Shine in that. Beautiful. Awesome. Good for you. But that's great that you're recognizing, stepping out of that because you expand and reach, Ben, which becomes an attractive thing. I'm not here to be a business coach for anyone. It's just human nature and the energy you put in the universe, mate, it's that simple. It will come back. It becomes an attractive thing. It really does. Doesn't mean you're power driven. Ego doesn't mean the opposite. That means you're supplicating and submissive. It's just standing your place. Where you stand in the earth, in this world is something that people are drawn to because a lot of people don't know where they stand, mate. And even sometimes they are bigger organizations or setups that may definitely need someone like your skills and expertise to drive home a product or service to deliver what they need and desire. And they fucking need that, mate. You know, I always look back in my footy times and wondered why I didn't get a crack at first grade earlier. And it was that I was the hardest. Not the hardest. I don't want to disrespect the guys I went through pre season with, but I was. I worked as hard as I could with our pre seasons and I would perform well and I would do better than others in pre seasons but we all worked hard. But man, I busted my ass. But I was always quiet and I was shy. I saw the coaches as on this pedestal as like these authoritarian enforcers where I just like, awesome, thanks, mate. I'll just train hard, I'll do whatever you say. If I'd have gone into the coaches meeting and I know this now and hard when you're 21, 22, right?

Yeah.

If I had a guy and said, coach, what do I need to do to play first grade? I'm fucking busting my ass. I want to win. What does that look like for you? What does that structure look like? What do you need from this position? What can I do to improve myself? Where are the weak points? If someone came to me like that let's say even if someone came, wanted to be part of RDM and they wanted to get a role inside of RDM for something, if they came to me with that sort of attitude, you know, it doesn't matter their age, but that level of passion and confidence and drive to be more just like your daughter, that's unreal, mate. Like, that is an attractive thing. Those coaches, they would have been like, fucking, look at this bloke. Were you doing that when you were 20? I wasn't doing that when I was 21. All the coaches would be there going, fuck, he's got the goods. Imagine if he can put that out on the field, let's see what he can do. And man, I would have gotten that attention. Not that I was neglected, but so many are when they have the goods. But it's got to come from the inside out, doesn't it, mate? Yes, but been an awesome episode. Hope you've enjoyed it. It's a great episode. Don't be worried at all, mate. This has been a killer. The guys, I hope you've gotten a lot of value out of this. Those watching on YouTube or listening. Don't forget we're across a few different platforms. Stitcher, SoundCloud, Spotify, obviously, iTunes, anchor, and we've got our own Real dad movement website page with podcast. But just to wrap up Ben, what would be, I guess some advice, like, yes, life is full of chaos. It will always have stress. Yes, energy is very important. Looking after yourself, valuing self confidence. All of these all roll together and almost well, seldom done. Alone and isolated, Having a tribe spin it. Amazing that you contribute to as well. What's some advice you would give to a father out there? Like, are there one or two key things or quotes or sayings or something that just flicked a switch for you? Like, what's something you can pass on some knowledge to a dad watching or listening to this, who knows he can do it or he needs or what he needs to do, but hasn't.

Yeah, well, probably the biggest thing for me was, so what's the alternative? So I can sit on the couch and be a sloth or I can just get up and do something and Then next is 1%. So you don't have to climb the mountain. You don't have to go from the base of the mountain to the top of the mountain in one step. You know, it's a thousand steps to get to the top of the mountain. I think what held me back a lot of the time was thinking that I had to have it all together, I had to know everything. So with diet I was like, I want to lose weight, I got to eat better. How do I eat better? Well, I'm being told I have to read the labels on the packets in the supermarket before I buy it. I look at it and it's like 8 grams of sodium, 10 grams of fats, whatever. I have no idea what I'm looking at. So. Okay, well, you know, eating healthy, sort of, that's like a dark art type thing, you know. So it's the. Yeah, taking action, just doing something, going for a walk, eating better. You don't have to be some special nutritionist expert to eat better. You know, it's just eating. Everyone knows what good food is, vegetables, meats, standard stuff. So you don't have to be an expert before you start. That's what held me back a lot. I have to be an expert in what I'm doing before I can start to apply it to my life. And then the result of that was I didn't do anything because I thought I don't have the, I don't have the time to do all the research and learn about it, retain that knowledge, apply it and then go out and do it. Now it's like, okay, diet. Eating like a 12 year old boy. Just eat more, more meat and some mashed potatoes. Okay, I can do that easy. Red meat. My old man was a butcher. I grew up, you know, working in a butcher shop after school. So yeah, red meat, I'm all for that. Mashed potatoes, easy peasy. I can. Simple. So then just doing that 1%, just making it easy, not making it complicated and just doing something, you know, just taking act. So taking action. 1%. And what's the alternative?

Lover mate. That's some great things that ultimately form the habits of our life. That forms your life. You are what you repeatedly do, you know, and, and just to wrap up and end on that note, couldn't agree more. Like what those listening or watching? What is the alternative? All right, future pace that. And what does that look like for your life in 5, 10, 15 years for yourself and family? Pretty fucking hard truths there, man. If you don't do something awesome, what if you do do something great? Use that to inspire you. And then you're right. Look at marathon runners, it's only one step at a time.

Yeah.

You know, if they didn't land the other foot, they'd fall over. But it's only a simple process. It's not something complex. Just put one foot in front of the other and, and your last one is. It really struck me, actually, because being borderline perfectionist, we all have expectations. We have expectations over the wrong things, mate. We have expectations over the outcomes. You can't control that. You can have expectations over your own standards and you can execute actions with that. Just take action. Like you said, no one's got it together, mate. That's what I've learned most about life since becoming a father. No one, no matter what they put on social media, how good people think they are, no one's got all this shit together and you'll never have all the answers. But learn, take action, dive into it. Truth be told, in terms of sodium levels, I don't have a down pat for what I should be having at 110 kilos for the amount of exercise I do and so on. So I know salt, white sea salt's amazing for you, so I choose to implement that into my diet. So there are certain things that I never want to be a complete professional at because it takes me off the eyes on the prize of what's important for me. But at least we're taking action.

Yeah.

Rip A, mate. Thanks for coming on. It's been great having you, man. Hope you've enjoyed it.

Yeah, that's good.

How's it been? All right?

It's not too bad.

I'm all right to hang out with. It's good to have you in the office, man, and I hope you guys enjoyed it. Whether you watched or listened to this. Remember, anything you need, alexealdadmovement.com, but I won't be that bland with anything you need. If your life is in fucking pieces because you don't have your shit together, how about you email me and we work out some habits and routines? Quick Kills, the RDM method that I will show you, that will help you get two to three hours back of your life every day and triple your energy. Because that's what it's about. You get those two together in the right environment, you can't lose hope. You enjoy this again, guys. And thanks again, Ben, for joining us.

No worries, mate.

Cheers.