Chasing Bulls in Colorado: Stories from Bob Terilliger

This is the Elk Hunt Podcast, home to everything elk hunting. I'm your host, Cody Rich. From fellow DIYers to elk hunting legends, we have elk hunting stories, tips, tactics, and more to get you pumped for elk season. Join us every week for great elk hunting content. This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Tricer. They make gear that's fast, light, and simple, from amazing tripods to bino mounts, panheads, truck mounts, and now even bipods. Tricer makes gear that's fast, light, and simple. I love their gear, and if you're looking for a new system for better glassing, check out Tricer. Head over to the website tricer.com. They make great products and it's just a great company. Awesome dudes, been using the heck out of the bipod.

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Hey Cody, how you doing?

Pretty good, about yourself?

Good, real good.

Alrighty, Bob, welcome to the podcast. How are we doing today?

Good, thanks Cody. Happy to be here and talk about my favorite subject.

Favorite— it's both of our favorite subjects, talk about elk hunting. Everyone loves a good elk hunting story. I was telling you that, um, you've been in the game a while, so let's give us, uh, give the audience a 30,000-foot view. When did you start elk hunting? How long you been elk hunting? What do you know about it?

Okay, so all right, we'll start off with a little bit of story here and some history about me. So I grew up in western New York State in the heart of the Catskills. My grandfather had a couple horses between him and my dad. I grew up hunting whitetails and chasing wild turkeys. As I transitioned into elk hunting, which I'll get to in a minute, you know, calling turkeys with a diaphragm made it pretty easy for me to migrate into elk, at least from the standpoint of making cow sounds. But in early '94, you know, I was in my, in my mid-30s. I had an opportunity to move to Colorado. You know, at that time I worked for IBM, had 3 young, real young kids. And it was at a time when IBM was bailing out of New York State. Wasn't sure if I was going to keep my job or not, the way things were going there. But I got this opportunity to move to Colorado and they offered to pay my moving and living, a significant promotion and all the bells and whistles that would get your attention. So my wife and I came out, checked it out, and, you know, we ended up moving here in early 1994. Now the thing I'll tell you about that is, is that because I grew up in a family that was deep in hunting tradition, started hunting with my grandfather and my dad from the time I was just a little guy following them around, my dream in reading Outdoor Life and Sports of Field was always to hunt elk. So here's my opportunity to go to Colorado, and I was going to get a chance to hunt elk, which I did my first fall. The first fall I was here, killed my first bull that fall. You know, and it kind of went on from there, but it was kind of really a dream come true. You know, first 14 years I lived here, I hunted elk on my own. I was like a sponge, you know, trying to learn country, learn about horses, learn about mules, learn about packing. And I learned a lot of that stuff the hard way and, you know, had a blast. And then as I started getting on in my corporate career, you know, and things started changing in corporate America, moving work offshore to other countries and stuff, you know, I said, man, I don't know if I can deal with this much longer. And teamed up with my wife and we figured out a plan to get me out. So lo and behold, the last 6 years I was at IBM, I was guiding elk hunt full time for 5 of those. And last fall I wrapped up my 17th year guiding elk hunts. I don't guide elk hunts full time anymore at age 69, but I did for 9 years, 7 weeks every fall, really got after it hard. And I still do some for some clients that I've known over the years or people that hit me up and we kind of hit it off. I'll still guide, you know, 1 or 2 weeks a year. And then I call for my son. I hunt first rifle. We hunt mule deer. So, you know, long story short, I guess, you know, I've been blessed that, you know, I started of always dreaming to hunt elk and I've been living the dream for the last 32 years and I'm still going. So.

Dude, that's, that's amazing. First and foremost, I hope I'm still chasing— well, I will be still chasing elk when I'm 69 years old. And that's kind of been, you know, on my mind. It's like, I want to still be doing this when I'm 70. 32 years. If you could look back and go to that 1994, maybe even through, through the '90s, you know, those early years, what advice would you give yourself with all the experience and knowledge that you have now?

You know, as I look back and, you know, the way I killed elk, you know, not bragging, but the first 14 years I was here, I killed 13 bulls. And, you know, I, I did that strictly because I was in really good shape, which I still work really hard at and why I can still do this. But I got to places that your average guy did not want to go and pack an elk out. In fact, my friends used to get mad at me and say, I can't believe you shot an elk up here. But, you know, probably the biggest advice I would give is that most people getting into elk hunting, you know, come from a whitetail background. They've hunted whitetails before. And what I could tell you is, I mean, certainly there's some skills from hunting whitetails that, you know, translate. But in terms of the style that you hunt, you know, getting up in your stand in the dark, getting down in the dark, that's not elk hunting. Elk hunting is more like hunting wild turkeys. You know, and the more you can learn about elk and the country that you're going to hunt, the better off you're going to be. And you really have to put your time in there now. Of course, there's tools nowadays that I didn't have when I started this, like onX, which helps a lot, which I have a love-hate relationship with. I never used to see people in the places I went, and now I see people all the time. So it certainly serves a purpose. But that's the biggest advice, you know. And if you're new to hunting overall, you know, the biggest advice I'd give you is, is that if you want to accelerate your learning curve, Hunt with a buddy that has experience. If you can afford it, hunt with an outfitter. But, you know, do your homework there because there's lots of outfitters there out there that are willing to take your money. But, you know, there's also a lot of good outfitters and guides out there. You know, ones like the way I always looked at was if I had a client that wanted to learn, you know, of course I was all about trying to get them an elk, but I was also all about trying to teach them everything that I knew. Where I could help them. So, you know, get some help, I think, is the other advice I would pass along.

Well, I would— I'm kind of curious, what was it like hunting elk in the '90s in Colorado? I feel like, man, it didn't hardly existed compared to what it does now. You know, no one, no one really hunted elk. I just imagine you, you, every trailhead, you know, there's elk screaming. You never had to go more than a mile from the trailhead. Like, what was it really like?

Oh, it was ridiculous. I mean, we did get the places that I first started hunting where I four-wheeled in and then you know, I rented horses and went in on horseback. You know, I would see elk in those places, but there was some pressure there. What I really noticed was, I think it was, um, 1997 is the first year that I actually got brave enough to rent a bunch of horses with a couple of buddies who knew nothing, never took horseback riding lessons. I got a lot of war stories I can tell you about that, where I was the only guy that knew how to saddle and bridle a horse. But I packed in 7 miles and this area that I hunted for a long time that I still hunt today. I'll never forget the first year I went back there to scout when I was going in there getting ready, thinking about going in there this fall. I went into the bottom of this mountain bowl and this was like 2:00 in the afternoon and I let out a cow call and there was like 5 to 7 different bulls from around the, around the bowl that bugled back at me and I said, I'm getting out of here. And I just couldn't wait to get back there. And, you know, I killed the bull back there that fall, and it just got better and better because then the operation that I ended up guiding for, they actually operated in that area. Although I— one thing that I did, um, I worked hard at when I was hunting there, when I wasn't working there, was I tried to, you know, I knew where the outfitters' camps were. I got to learn where they wanted to take their hunters and I went in a different direction. I wasn't there to have competition. I was there to be by myself, you know? Yeah.

So when you think back on 32 years of elk hunting, um, I saw this quote the other day and it was really good. It was something like, what was your best hunting trip? And the guy starts talking about like, and there's a few that come to mind, but like they all kind of blend together and it's just years of memories, years of places. And it's like, how lucky are we to have lived a life full of elk hunting? Which is like they all kind of run together, and there's so many moments from different hunts, and there's so many pieces that it's hard to be like, well, this one elk hunt, right? Like they all kind of run together. I'm sure that you have a lot of that. They all kind of run together. But if you can think about the most memorable elk hunting experience, like what, what, what comes to mind when you think of that?

You know, I, I'm gonna say, and this one doesn't— I mean, I can share some about myself, but Part of the reason I guide is because I enjoy taking other people out and the people aspects and sharing this beautiful country and experience that we have here in the West. So I'll go back to— it was in 2014. I had a family from Illinois, and I had two of the boys, you know, at that time, I don't remember what they were. They were around 30 years old, and we were camp— up on top of this mountain, you know, kind of out of the way. And we were running into this herd of elk every morning. And honest to God, Cody, there, there was 100 head in this herd, right? But they're right smack out in the middle of nowhere. And we would figure out how we would get across. And we, we were laying on our bellies in the willows and we watched that herd for 2 days. And, you know, this was, this was actually a muzzleloader hunt. And, I kept saying to my guys, I said, I know this has taken a lot of patience, but we gotta wait for our right opportunity. The hardest part we've solved. We know where there are, there's several really good bulls here in this group screaming their bloody heads off. And, you know, they hung with me and they were patient. On the third day, we caught 'em up there again and they did finally what I wanted 'em to do. They, they, They took off, you know, like mid-morning and they went into this patch of dark timber. And I said to them, I said, when the last one goes in the timber, guys, we're going. And we took off and we hustled across probably— it was probably 150, 200 yards. And we got them in there. I got— they got their breath settled down. I got both of them set up. I started cow calling. Within 5 minutes, I had the first bull on the ground, right? This nice average 4x5. And I grabbed the younger guy and I said, come on, let's go. And we took off and we could hear the herd bull screaming. And we set up on that herd bull 3 different times and he's screaming at me. And finally, the 4th time we set up on him, we got close enough. You know, we took some risk and we got inside his comfort zone and he came screaming in. And this young guy shot this beautiful 6x6, probably a 320-class bull at 28 yards with a muzzleloader. And there, within 20 minutes, we had 2 bulls on the ground. And it was just like as a guy, it was a— as an elk hunter, it was a dream come true because, you know, we played our cards right and it panned out. And of course, to those guys, you know, from then on, I, I couldn't do anything wrong. You know, I still hear from them today. But that was, that was a lot of fun. A lot of fun.

Yeah, man. Those moments where you get to call those bulls in and then kill them too. And I think anytime you kill 2 in a day is a great day. Yeah, 2 in kind of one setup.

I was blessed. I had I had several occasions where I killed 2 in one morning. I had one morning I should have killed 3, but, you know, I had 3 hunters, but it just didn't work out. The one guy missed. That was, that was a rifle hunt. But still, I mean, that would have been— I was tired after 2. I mean, I'm sure I would have found a way to skin and quarter and cape a third one, but the guy missed. So it was—

I remember, remember being in my 20s and I think we killed 5 bulls in 2 days or whatever it was. And it was, yeah, like I look back at those days and it was like, man, I, I wouldn't want to be one of those skinners in the 1800s that was just skinning them suckers all day long. And the older I get, the worse it is. Like I can barely do one elk now. I'm like, my back hurts, you know, like that's the worst part. Cutting up.

I'm with you. I've got rope in my pack for tying off legs. And because quite candidly, that's the only way I can do it by myself now, you know, including I'm not strong, you know, I'm. you know, back to my high school weight now. I was 30 pounds heavier muscle weight when I first started this stuff, you know, and, that just age has a way of taking that away. You can't carry the weight in a good way. But I got, I got rope in my pack and I'm tying off legs. And when I get a bull, a lot of times, you know, they always die in the most ugly spots possible. Now you got to roll this thing up uphill when you're getting ready to skin the other side.

Yeah.

And, you know, pulling the legs up as far up as I can get them on a couple of trees and get the elk up on his side. And then get behind it, try to give it the heave-ho like you're pushing the sled in football practice, you know.

So I'd love to hear you talk a little bit about, you know, you're 69 years old, you're still elk hunting, you're still getting after it. What does it mean to be hunting elk at 70? And is there, is there sacrifices you make? Is there things you don't do that you wish you could do? Is there— is it just like you become older and wiser and now you don't have to hike as far? Like What, what does hunting at 70 look like?

Well, you know, the first thing I'm going to say is that you have to make lifestyle changes. And what I mean by that, I mean, I never was a big drinker, but when I was younger, I played a lot of competitive sports, particularly after college, you know, traveling tournaments, basketball, fastpitch softball, and you're drinking beers and stuff. And, you know, I don't drink much alcohol anymore. I mean, I'll have a drink, you know, 2 drinks at most if I'm in a social environment. I don't drink that much. I pay attention to what I eat. Not that I don't ever go off the wagon with what I eat, but, you know, and then the biggest thing is I live in the gym. When I'm not in the backcountry, I'm not outdoors, you know, hunting or fly fishing. I'm in the gym 5 to 6 days a week. I've modified my routine significantly. You know, as one example, when I was younger, I used to be able to squat a lot of weight. I don't do barbell squats anymore. I use what's called the Rogue belt squat machine. There's a lot of different belt squats out there, but, you know, the belt goes around your waist and you're actually pulling, you know, with your legs. You don't have the compression on your spine and on your hip and on your knees. So, you know, I've modified my living habits as well as my workout habits, but I haven't given up exercise, you know. And, you know, let's face it, as we get older, Father Time takes a swing at all of us in different ways. And You know, the thing I'll tell you is, is that some of my buddies tease me. They say you're the $6 million man, and to some degree they're right. I've, I've got 2 artificial hips, I've had work done on both shoulders, and I had a 3-level cervical neck fusion. All good as new, you know. And the key reason is I went to those operations healthy as I could be, and, you know, I worked really hard at the rehab, and I listened to my therapist and everything else, and Today's technology, they're pretty good at putting us back together. So that's, that's really key, you know, is probably the last thing I would say that if you can, but not everybody can do this. Not everybody's got the aptitude. You know, there is, of course, hunting the different seasons where if you hunt the later seasons, you know, if you get snow, as you know, that can drive animals down, but you still got to hike in it though. If you got snow where you're hunting, and that's not easy either. Definitely hunting with buddies is smart. You know, I did a lot of hunting on my own. I've got orders from headquarters here. My wife does not let me go by myself anymore. And then the last thing, you know, if you have access to horses and the inclination to learn to ride, that can help a lot. And I'm, I'm fortunate. I've gotten one really good young Quarter Horse and I've got one really good mule. And, um, I'm not bashful about using them to get my camp in and out, to get meat in and out. They don't— you can't always get them to where you shoot them, but they definitely can save you a lot of miles of putting meat on your back, that's for sure.

What's your average season look like these days?

My average what?

Season. What's the, what's the hunting season look like?

My average season is I start typically I guide, typically I guide a week or two in archery. I like guiding archery anymore. I have guided first rifle too in recent times. And then this year I'm actually going with my son. We're planning to go for 12 days. Really want to try to— he's getting a little bit more time off from work, so I probably won't guide. I may guide second rifle this year because, you know, archery, I'm going to be tied up with my son. And then, you know, I got a little bit of a break, kind of recoup my body. And then I've got a good buddy of mine who I've guided with and hunted with a lot over the years. He's younger than I am. He lives in Wyoming. He's coming down to hunt with me again. First rifle. We do that. I enjoy first rifle simply because it's not quite as crowded as the other rifle seasons. The elk are still high and They're still bugling most times, so you kind of get that experience. And then I'll probably hunt mule deer third rifle again with my son.

So yeah, you got a lot of hunting still doing well.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I easily get 4 weeks a year and sometimes 5. So nice.

So when you go, say, like hypothetically, let's look at this season, you're going with your son, archery season. Are you guys going to pack in? Are you going to backpack? Are you going to horseback? What's your—

Last year, you know, last year we backpacked in. But this year I think we're going to take my animals with me. It's a little bit of a pain because, you know, I mean, the animals, as good as they are about getting your stuff in, you know, the part that's tough is that, you know, you can't, you can't leave them tied to a high line or tied to a tree days on end.

Right.

You got to come back some days lunchtime. Get them off, you know, of course, water them, hobble them, let them graze and give them some freedom or they get pretty unruly. I mean, that's the plan right now. I mean, we'll see. We got actually going to hunt a little bit different area this year. I'm familiar with it from fishing but not from elk hunting. And so we're going to go scout it a couple of times and depending on how tough the hike is, we might decide to not take my stock because you know, I'd rather not go back to camp lunchtime, you know.

Right. I think that's like a misconception about stock animals. Like, they— the best stock animals is like the best case scenario for hunting is someone— you're— some— somebody who's not hunting is packing in for you and dealing with stock, or, you know, yeah, run a camp. Because, man, like, I've done it solo, um, and it's like just a pain in the butt. It's a lot. It's a lot of extra work. I don't think people understand how much extra work it is. And like, there's a lot of people It'll just tell you, you know what, I'll just pack the dang thing out myself because like it's just not worth it. Right. Best case scenario, again, someone rides in and then rides out and is kind of on call. And if you needed to come get an elk, like it's right there. But generally speaking, that's a pretty hard situation to get. But having them with you, man, can be a pain. And I've done it both ways.

I agree. And I mean, the other thing where I'm— I got to look at where we're going and see what the terrain looks like and where get a better feel of actually where we're going to hunt. But, you know, the other thing I definitely like to do in today's day and age, because we get so much pressure here during archery. Now, this area is a draw unit where we're going to go this year, so that'll help some. But I like the idea. I mean, I don't, I don't bring all my stuff in the first trip. I mean, number one, it's a lot of weight. You know, it's really hard to get your pack, even if you only bring a couple days of food, it's hard to get your pack below 50 pounds, you know. Right. If you know, and, and plus I want to, I want the ability that if we get into an area and let's say we run into a lot of hunters or there's just no elk there, I mean, after a day, 2 days, I'm pulling up and I want to be mobile. I want to be able to move. So leaving some stuff at the truck can be a good idea. And, you know, the worst case is you got to make a trip back and, you know, you got your pack empty, you go get some more food, maybe a change of clothes, and it's no big deal.

Yeah, I'm, yeah, very big fan of staying mobile. And I think it's so important in places like Colorado, um, Colorado particularly, uh, just because there are like— you may— it may have been the best basin of your entire life for the last 3 years, and you go back there this year and it's, you know, 6 of your best friends. You don't know why. Um, yeah, it just changes. I'd love to hear you talk a little bit about— I mean, you've hunted Colorado for 32 years. You've seen the evolution of kind of the influx of archery hunters, if you will. The onX problem, uh, where it's like, you know, people are everywhere. How has it changed your tactics? Because you go back to 1997, you're calling in 2 bulls on a muzzleloader season. It probably wouldn't happen today. Uh, so like, I'd be curious, just like, how, how, how has tactics evolved?

And well, you know, it's like I was saying, where, where I used to hunt on my own, and then where I used to guide, and then I hunted a lot after, um, that operation shut down. Unfortunately. But the area I used to hunt in was so good. I knew there was always elk there. There was never a question. And I knew, I knew where they would be. I mean, it was sometimes a little bit of a process of elimination, but I knew where they would be. So that made it really easy. In recent times now, there's a bunch of guys back there and there's an outfitter coming in from the other side. And, you know, as an example, this area I used to have to myself. And this past year, my son and I went back in there this year and we went in mistakenly mid-month. Which again, that's what really attracts the crowd. Everybody associates September 15th to the peak of the rut. And in this small mountain bowl, there was 12 other hunters back there we run into. And so, you know, I just said, we're not doing this again. You know, and we pulled out of there. So we're going to a little bit different area. So, you know, I think the whole aspect of being, being mobile is really, really key. You, you got to be and you got to have a couple different hunt plans in that in mind before you leave the house. You, you don't want to, I mean, let's face it, for most guys it means taking off from work. You know, there's the expense side of it. You want to do as much homework before you hit the trailhead that you have Plan A, Plan B, and, and likely Plan C. So that, you know, if things aren't going the way you want in your first option or two, you've got other options and you can just go to it rather than be in a situation where you say, where do we go now? And you're wasting precious time out of your hunt. Yeah.

I mean, and it clicks by fast and even the hunt like clicks by so fast. I think people really underestimate the fact that like, you know, you and I go on a 10-day hunt, man, it's over before you even know it. It's like it is.

Yeah.

Spent 8 of those days trying to find the elk, trying to get away from people, and they got 2 days to hunt them. Yeah, it's tough and it happens quick for sure. Do you think that it's, you know, calling is, I don't know, useless in Colorado these days or like— No, still good.

No, you know, it's changed, but it's not useless. I mean, my style of calling has changed. You know, one of the things, the first operation I worked at was an operation here called Winterhawk Outfitters. I worked there for, I guess, 9 years. I was the head guide if maybe 6 of those years there. And I got an— as part of that, I eventually, I taught the big game guiding segment of their outfitter school. And, you know, with that, I got introduced to Corey Jacobson. And, you know, Corey and I, I mean, to this day, I mean, Corey knows who I am and have a good, really good relationship with him. But the guy why I bring I'm screwing up his name, is the guy that, who's helped me a lot is Dirk Durham. I met Dirk, you know, the Bugler through Corey, and Dirk has helped me a lot with my calling. And then another guy who lives here in Colorado by the name of Jermaine Hodge, and I picked those guys' brains. I talked to them about it. So, you know, in a nutshell, the way I think about calling is that, you know, I try to get to an area in the morning, you know, where I think there's going to be elk or I can hear elk, you know, and I, I don't call right away. I sit there and I glass, I listen. If I don't see anything or hear anything, I might give a location bugle. I might wait, maybe location bugle again, some cow calls. If nothing answers, I'm moving right to the next site. I got a plan for where I'm going. But what I'm getting at with calling is I do use it to locate animals. But once I locate something, or even if I don't hear them call, but I see them, I'm not calling again until I feel like I'm really where I need to be, that I'm 100 yards maximum. You know, I'm trying to get inside that comfort zone. So the next time I call to him, you know, then I've got a pretty good chance of getting a response. You know, and I don't scream my head off at him. You know, I mean, there could be times if you get into a heated discussion with a bull, but that doesn't really happen that much anymore. You know, it's more about, you know, making softer bugles, softer cow sounds, and especially soft calf sounds. If you can get in close, they will answer. Now, a lot of times in today's day and age, they don't bugle all the way in. They'll answer and they shut up and then they come in silent. That happens a lot. You know, I've blown some opportunities like that. You know, I mean, mainly, I mean, the one that comes to mind with my son a couple of years ago, I had this bull bugling his head off at me. I thought he was coming and he shut up. And I waited like 30 minutes and I didn't hear nothing. Didn't hear nothing. And I heard this bugle down the ridge and I thought it was him. So I went to go get my son to go after that bull. I took 2 steps and that bull took off. Yeah, I was so disgusted. I said, man, I know better than that, you know? But sometimes you can get in the heat of the moment. It's easy to make mistakes, you know? But yeah, to answer your story, I think there's still merit in calling. It's just really more known about when to call, you know, not over-calling. And you do have to get, you know, you don't have to be a world champion elk caller. If you can make a good location bugle and you can make some good soft cow sounds and calf sounds, that's really what you need, you know. And then the rest is listening to the sounds that they make and trying to imitate them.

Yeah, I, I 100% agree with you that, you know, locating, maybe it works, uh, it's useful to have, it's for sure. I, it's not the end-all be-all. And I do think that there's a lot of people these days, they get, they get, uh, impatient. And impatient in the calling side where it's like, well, nothing answered, I just keep going. And, you know, I thought there was okay, but they're not answering, I'm just going to keep going. And I think it actually increases when you get surrounded by other hunters because— and I've felt this, I've seen it— but it's like you get around other people and you're kind of rushed, right? You feel like you're not alone, I gotta hurry up, gotta find the elk. And everyone's that way. And you see even in rifle deer hunting, like everyone's running around with it, you know, it's like they're trying to beat someone to somewhere they don't know where it is. And I think this is true in archery and calling for sure. It's like the busier it is, the more you have to slow down. And it's counterintuitive, but like, you have to slow down. You have to slow the calling sequences down. You have to slow you down. You have to wait longer. Like, if elk aren't talking, the goal is not to speed up. And I'm a big fan of like, move fast and break things when, when you're trying to find elk. But once you're in elk, man, you have to slow down. And I think the quieter they are, the more you have to slow down, because they're, they're questioning everything, right? Like, they, they know, right? They know there's people in the area. They're, you know, like you said, like, even if you got a a hot bull, a bull with a hot cow, and he is bugling, still a solid chance he just absolutely shuts up. And, you know, he's maybe still coming, maybe he didn't come. I don't know. But you still got to slow play it. You can't force it.

Yeah, you're exactly right. When to move, when, when you should move, you know, and move quickly versus when you shouldn't. And, you know, actually just taught an elk hunting seminar last week to a bunch of first responders. It's some of the volunteer work I do here in Colorado to try to support the folks that look out for our communities. But one of the things I talked about is, you know, what you see this in the West, a lot of times you see tracks. But if we don't have rain or wind, tracks mean they were here, but doesn't necessarily mean that they're here now. And, you know, but you get into those areas where you see tracks, you see fresh droppings, you see wallows where the mud is wet on the trees from them using it. You're right, though. Even if they're not talking, those are the areas where you got to really slow down and pay attention because they're there. They just may not be talking.

All right. And it doesn't mean they're not going to come in. I think that's a big misconception. It's like, well, they're not talking. I'm on to the next elk. And granted, you know, circa 2004, '05, '06, whatever, you could very much pull the Cory Jacobson. And if the elk wasn't talking, you were on to the next one. But I just don't know that that's depending on where you are, the unit, the, you know, the state, all these things, it, it doesn't exist as much. And so I think, you know, I think this to be very true in a place like Colorado. Totally armchair quarterbacking because I've never actually hunted elk in Colorado, but anywhere that's busy has a lot of pressure. You, you can't rely on that. You can't just, uh, off to the next one. There's just not enough open spaces.

No, there's not. There's really not, you know, I mean, and certainly, you know, probably the other thing that helps us nowadays that I do a lot of to find elk is, you know, the— and you don't even have to spend a lot of money, you know, if you want to go, if you're on a budget. But the quality of the optics that we have available to us now are just invaluable, you know. I mean, if I have trouble, you know, finding elk, you know, whether it be midday, A lot of times midday or even an afternoon, I'll commit a whole afternoon to try to find a bunch of elk and maybe they're too far away for me to get to them that evening. But the next morning you can bank on I'm going to be there, you know, and I'm not, I'm not necessarily going in calling, you know, I'm going in there trying to get in the middle of them and then I might start calling, you know.

So do you look at when you like think about where to go, do you look at areas differently now, you know, with like trying to stay away from people? So there's the classic adage. Are you trying to find elk or are you trying to get away from people?

You know, I'm going to say it's a combination of both. I mean, it needs to be the right kind of country where they got cover, where they can get out of the warm weather during the middle part of the day, where they got food, they got water. But, you know, getting away from people is important. And like you said a few minutes ago, though, today it's not necessarily that you have to go that deep. It's just going where other people aren't, you know, and trying to find those niches because the elk will hang there if they're not disturbed. If they got food, they got water and they're not getting hassled, they're going to hang there, lying there for several days. And if you play your cards right, you can get a crack at one of them.

Yeah. I keep cutting you or interrupting, but I do want to hear some more elk stories. Do you have one that comes to mind? Memorable elk scenarios?

You know, I would say, let's see, I guess probably, and it has to start with the ones that I was saying about, like, there's probably along the lines of what we've been getting at. It was, I think it was in 2019, 2020. I was hunting with a couple of buddies of mine back in the area where I talked about. And of course, Now we're in the time where that area is getting a bunch of pressure and it was first rifle. And I hunted the first 4 days and I didn't see one elk. I saw some old sign. I didn't see one elk. I saw plenty of bull moose, but no elk. And you know, it would've been really easy to quit, but I didn't. The last day I said, today's the last day I gotta go. And I went back into this big mountain bowl where I've killed so many elk before, and I was there right about when it's cracking light and I'm listening. I don't hear nothing. I don't see nothing. And I waited as long as I could, let out a couple location bugles. And so I start my way towards the back of the bowl and started off and I maybe walked maybe 10 minutes, you know, but not walking, walking, walking 10 minutes, taking a few steps, stopping. Glass in ahead of me. And just something made me look over my shoulder behind me in this bowl where I've seen on this, on this big avalanche chute where I've always seen elk over the years. And I look back there and lo and behold, there's 8 cows and a really nice 6-point bull. And I saw them and I immediately beat feet into the timber. And it probably took me about 30 minutes before I could get up. I had a really you know, watch the cows with my binos, you know, figure out when I can— when I saw that, put their head down, take risk, move, take risk, move. And I finally got in where I was within range. And I ended up shooting this really nice 6-point bull. He was about 385 yards straight up, straight up this avalanche chute, right? And I shot him and he took about 3 jumps and he stopped, you know, and he stopped like he wasn't himself, you know, and I figured that I hit him. Um, and then the next thing you know, he's gone, you know, so I said, well, there's nobody around. I waited for a while and, uh, waited about an hour and I go up there looking around and of course, um, couldn't find any blood. Um, and I actually learned something from this day. One of the reasons I want to share this story is that, um, so thank God there was maybe about a half inch of wet snow along some of the dark timber where off that avalanche chute. So I said, well, what I got to do, and there was elk tracks everywhere. So it was kind of hard to tell for sure what was his, what wasn't. Didn't find any blood in the area where I knew I shot at him. And, um, you know, so I get up there and I walked that timberline and I finally found just a pin drop of blood. I mean, just a pin drop on the snow. And I walked in there 50 yards and there he was piled up in a heap. And, you know, the thing that I told myself about that was, you know, when you take these shots and we know this, we think about this as part of what I like to call the mental checklist when you get ready for a shot opportunity, whether that be archery or rifle, you know, in terms of the point of where you want to hit the animal versus where the exit wound is going to come because that's where the, the bulk of your blood trail can come from. Of course, I hit that animal low, but it exited high. Well, that blood cavity or the body cavity had to fill up with blood, which it really didn't even that much before he bled. And I think a lot of guys would've looked at that situation, probably went up there, walked around and not done due diligence and walked away and left that big 6-point bull laying in the timber. And I thank God that I, you know, I didn't give up. I kind of, that's kind of one of the things I learned from my dad and my grandfather. If you shoot, you really gotta do your due diligence. But then I thought about that. I said, you know, I gotta make it, make a mark in my mind to say, you know, that's one thing when you go looking for blood, you know, you may not find it right away depending on the exit wound and, and where you hit 'em and everything else. And, you know, you, you just can't give up. You gotta, you gotta really be thinking about, the shot and what you saw and what you heard before going after that animal. And don't give up until you've really done your due diligence.

Yeah, that's a really good point. And I, uh, it reminds me of my first deer I shot. And, uh, I'll never forget. I can still close my eyes and see that buck jump, you know, and we go down in this timber patch and my cousin's with me and he's like, I don't know if you hit him. Like, we couldn't find any blood. We tracked that thing for at least 100 yards. It's very thick stuff. We never did see a single drop of blood. It was like a perfect shot. And, uh, we almost gave up looking for that thing. My cousin was convinced I missed it. And to this day, I can still see that buck kick, you know, the way he did. And I was like, I know I hit him, I know I hit him. But yeah, I mean, it happens for sure. And I think people probably do walk away too early, get frustrated. I think the other thing is, if I could just interject 2 cents on someone who's tracked a lot of blood trails, uh, you know, I do think that when you're new you jump to gridding, you jump right to like, you know, the frustrating part. You want to skip ahead and start doing circles or whatever it may be. And some of the best blood trails I've ever been on boiled down to more CSI forensic scientist than I did, you know, covering ground and looking for grids. And I think, man, you start gridding too early and you kind of lose faith and you get frustrated. And, you know, we— I tend like for what it's worth, most people know this, but like, for what it's worth, I think if you can, you know, go to wherever the last blood is and don't move a step until you find the next drop, you know, may take you 20 minutes. But I think if you didn't grow up doing this, there's probably a lot of people who don't know. They start to just grid pattern because they don't find blood or they don't see it. It's like, man, go back and we're not taking a step until we find the next clue because this is where it is. And if you go one foot the wrong direction, You know, you're, you were never gonna find anything. You search for hours and never go in the wrong way.

You know, and the nice thing is, uh, I mean, I didn't grow up with this, but now we have it. Certainly I use it. IZONX is a great tool for tracking. Yeah. I mean, not only can you use that to mark where you found blood last, but if you do get into desperation mode, you can use it as a map to say, where have I went and where haven't I based on where the direction you think that animal's going. You can really make sure that you've exhausted your opportunity to use the tracking feature with it.

Yeah, I mean, I've— this has happened to us. It happened last year. We, you know, ran tracks. And when you're, you're in the forest, it's hard to see the trees, right? You're running tracks. You're like, man, why is he going uphill? Why is he going uphill? And, and then when you look back at that track on the map, you can be like, oh, maybe he's going over here, you know? And like, it gives you a little bit of a clue and direction. But yeah, even last year that we shot a bull, seemed great, was very low. Uh, didn't know that. And, you know, we had made 100 yards into that track job and we see basketball-sized globs of what we thought was long, just bubbles, right?

Right.

Surely he's dead. And actually, this is probably a good learning session too. So it's like, we shoot this, this bull, by the way, came in stone silent to calf calls, uh, mid-morning, right? Bull comes in stone silent, makes shot. Crashes off. We wait a while not knowing the shot, and we start tracking. Within 100 yards, you know, we're getting a little bit of blood. Within 100 yards, we see basketball-sized lung tissue, right? And he's going uphill. So as soon as he went uphill, starts coughing up, or something came out. I still don't know what it was, by the way. Anyway, long story short, we keep tracking, thinking this bull's within 100 yards. And of course, it's getting less, it's getting less. It's like, okay, clearly if he's made it this far, it's a one lung situation. And in a one-lung situation, he's probably not dead if it's only been an hour and a half. So let's back out. Nothing good is going to come from this. Like, let's back out, give it 6 hours. So we do the like 6-hour wait, right? And we keep going. That bull ended up— I forget the number, I could look on my phone, on my Onyx, but call it over a mile. Bull goes over a mile, man. We were just looking for pen drops, pen drops, pen drops. Finally, you know, we actually get into this area, get into some thick timber, and we like bumped a bull. So bull stands up and I'm like trying to get eyes on to see if it's the right— it's the bull we shot, right? And like just trying to see arrow, what happened, thinking it is for sure, or probably for sure, the same bull. Well, it turned out it wasn't, um, which was interesting in and of itself. But we're watching this bull and I'm just catching glimpse of him through the bushes and whatnot, and I'm like, I don't think it's him. Like, I think this bull is not hit. And I like let's not shoot another bull here. But like, all right, I don't think that's the bull. And just, just the way he acted, the way he left. And sure enough, we went another 100 yards and we found that bull laying. That bull was laying— the bull we shot, found dead, was laying within 150 yards of where we stood this other bull up. I don't know if he like walked into a bedroom where another bull was. Maybe he was kind of with that bull when they went up in there. Either way, like, man, we tracked that thing a long ways. And, you know, good good instinct of like good advice is like when you start, if you think you got one lung, give it time because nothing good is going to come from bumping a bull an hour after.

Oh, you're 100% right. You know, the same can be said with liver shots. You know, I mean, they're going to die, but they're not going to die right away. And, right, you know, that's— you really got to pay attention. It's hard for guys, particularly if they don't have a lot of reps with killing elk or even killing whitetails, you know, you gotta really take in all the input about, you know, the, this whole shot opportunity and what you find and what you hear. And you gotta build that into your recovery plan. And like you said, ideally, I like to see 'em pass where, wherever they end up versus you go along and you kick 'em up out of their bed because that's when it really gets tough.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, bumping elk is no, it's never good.

No. No, it's not. Yeah.

I mean, sometimes it works out, but generally speaking, it's gonna be less of a blood show than you had before.

Yeah. Right. Yep.

Absolutely. Never works out. Yeah. It's interesting. I mean, it takes a lot of reps. You know, one of the things like I always learned growing up was like, oh, wounded elk don't go uphill. And I don't know if I believe that anymore.

Like, I just, oh, they, they, they, I think they will. It depends how bad they're hurt, obviously. But, and just 'cause they go uphill doesn't mean they're not gonna die. But, right. That, you know, it depends on the circumstances and what's there and everything else. You know, but patience is really key with recovery. You know, there's— I always tell people after I shoot, there's not a big rush to go over there unless there are circumstances like I think that there's other hunters that are right there or, you know, if I'm worried about rain or something, you know, or snow covering up the blood trail. Well, those circumstances can be different. But, you know, overall, if all things being equal, I'm going to wait at least unless I see that elk go down or I hear them go down. You know, because when they go down hard, obviously you hear it. I'm waiting 45 minutes at a minimum before I go. And if I think I hit back, like you were saying, if I think I hit back and it might be a liver shot, I'm probably going to wait 4 hours before I even go looking, you know. So yeah.

And like everyone wants to see that first blood. I've been there. I mean, we all do it. Like you got to see that first blood, which sometimes can tell you more often than not. Like if I just don't know, I wait nowadays because like I've gotten it wrong too many times. I've been, you know, seeing the first 10 yards of a blood trail and thinking it was glorious, and it had been harder than I— like, you know, it's almost like I've inverted to like, if I don't see a blood trail on the first 10 feet, I think it's probably gonna die soon. Uh, and if I do, then I'm like really concerned. Like, you know, I've seen too many shoulder shots, too many like whatever, and like great blood trails for the first 100 yards and then just absolutely—

they clot up. Yep, seen that.

Yeah, but I mean, elk are tough too. And like, uh, yeah, it's crazy. I, I think for the most part, let them be for longer than you think unless, you know, like you said, unless there's some weird circumstance. But generally speaking, tend to wait.

Absolutely.

Yeah. What other advice do you have, um, for, for elk hunters? It could be archery, could be rifle. Um, I know you do both.

This is both rifle and bow. Um, I think that rifle hunters are more guilty of this, but I'll talk about bow hunters too, is that there's, you know, the skills preparation for a shot opportunity is so important. And I'm, you know, obviously there's the physical skill part of it that, you know, a lot of guys with a rifle and, and I can say some things about bow hunters too where they'll go to the range, rifle hunter shoot off the sandbags, just shoot with the shooting sticks and Rifle's shooting really good and I'm ready. Well, no, you're not ready. You know, you know your guns in, but now you got to go to shoot in some real shooting positions. And by the way, forget about those shooting sticks. Shoot off your backpack, shoot prone, shoot leaning up against the tree, shoot off your knees sitting with your back against the tree. If I'm bow hunting, you know, I want to always shoot with my quiver on. I want to shoot with my pack and my bino bivy on. Sometimes I want to guess the distance because maybe you know, for closer-in shots, I may not have time to range them. You know, so that's the physical skills part of it. And then there's the mental skills part of it that, you know, particularly, you know, when you get to a spot, whether you're on stand for rifle or you're in a call setup for archery, you know, looking at assessing your shooting lanes, taking some readings with your rangefinder, you know, if it's archery, I'm thinking about where are my opportunities to draw, right? If that bull's coming in and somebody's calling from me, I'm, I'm thinking about all that before the animal ever gets to me. Because they don't even need to know you're there. They, they just don't give you a lot of time. I mean, they might— you might say, well, he's got to walk across that big park. But with those long legs, it does not take— you got seconds, you don't have minutes. And you really need to prepare yourself And then probably the last thing I'll say is that, you know, once you know you're going to shoot that animal, you need to be thinking about your opening, where you're going to shoot, you know, the spot on that animal, your aim point, you know, all those things. Forget about how he's going to look over your fireplace and all that stuff, no matter how big he is, because that's when bull fever is going to set in, you know. So really rehearsing for that stuff is so important mentally and physically. And one of the pieces of advice I like to do is, you know, like, and I use the Born and Raised guys because I think those guys have a lot of fun in their videos. But go watch those guys, particularly on archery. Go watch those guys, the guy in the setup, about what he's doing when that the bull is coming and somebody's calling for him about, you know, the actions and the steps that they take to get ready for a shot and when they actually pick to draw. You can learn so much from watching somebody else, you know, and then, then you just got to prepare yourself for that. And, you know, it's, it's really key. The preparation is so key because if you don't do that, those shot opportunities come and go and you'll be kicking yourself afterwards because you might not even get a shot off. You know, I had a guy just a couple of years ago, first rifle. I called in this big, this big bull and it's the same bull. I know I called it in for my son. During archery. My son didn't kill him. Unfortunately, he didn't listen to me and didn't stop at the tree where I told him to. And he tried to sneak to the next tree and the bull stepped out and, and my son was taking one last step and they saw each other. It was over 20 yards. But this guy, I mean, this bull was 50, 60 yards in front of me saying, I can see him, I can see him. I said, well, shoot him. And we're in this timber and this kind of this rocky little hillside. And he's futzing instead of pulling up and just shooting that bull. He's futzing around with the shooting sticks trying to get him balanced on the rocks. And I'm saying, first thing you know, he says, now all I can see is the rear end. He never got a shot off. This bull was 350, 360. It was a big bull, you know. And he was, you know, the good thing about it was I didn't say anything. You know, I didn't say anything. But the next day he said, He said, I guess I need to really practice, you know, in field positions. I say, yeah, you do. I said, shooting sticks are great and they have their place, but more, a lot of times, more times than not, particularly here in Colorado, unless you're doing long distance shooting and the animals don't know you're there and they're feeding, you know, you don't have the time to play around with those things unless it's really wired in, in muscle memory, you know?

Yeah.

So that's some of the, The big tips I can give, you know, it's tough too because like it is, you know, I preach at-bats all the time.

You got to be in those scenarios to really understand. But there is like this balance of that sense of urgency. And even in the archery, I do, you know, we watch— if guys watch too much, and maybe this is like fading because in the old days you watch Primos and then you had to get the Primos videos, like everything happened a certain way. And you watch Born and Raised and you realize like, yeah, Born and Raised is like a little more Western. They're, uh, getting a shot when they can, right? And I think that's the reality. That's what the reality is. Like, I need to take this shot now because there's probably not another one. And that comes from waiting too long too many times. And you learn, like, man, I'm not gonna get a shot here. And like, you do this long enough and you start to like try to force things. Yeah, you know, you got to get that last 1%. I might have to walk out and I might step around this tree. I might have to like right, be aggressive at that last 1%. And that comes from not getting the shot, right? And I think, you know, that's a tough thing to teach people, is like this sense of urgency. Every guide in the planet has a story, if not a handful, if not a dozen stories, of the client that like just couldn't get the shot. And I promise you, the guide could. What is the difference, right? Well, it's experience. Like, it's just knowing, like, ah, you got to make it now. Like, how many times have you been on a with a client and you're like, please shoot now. You don't wanna rush 'em, but you're like, please shoot now. Right now. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. That, it's such a fine line sometimes. You're right. Because, you know, like, I could think about the biggest bull that I ever guided was in 2013 and I had a young guy and it was first day of third rifle season and I'm watching these bulls across the valley. There's 3 of them and they're, they're, they're, I could tell they were all legal bulls. Not, not big. They were average Colorado bulls. And next thing you know, out the corner of my eye, 100 yards down the hill in the willows is this monster. And the bull is standing there in the willows and, and the kid pulls up like he's going to shoot. I said, no, don't shoot now, because number one, he was facing towards us. He's in the willows. He doesn't have a clear shot. And I said, wait, he, you know, or, you know, the sun's hitting on us, our scent's going uphill. With, with the thermals. I said, he's going to step out, and when he steps out broadside, I'll tell you when to shoot. And thank God he put his rifle down and he listened to me. And that bull stepped out and he shot him. I mean, the bull went maybe 25 yards. This bull scored 354, which is, you know, over-the-counter Colorado public land bulls, a big bull.

Yeah.

And he was, of course, he was ecstatic. But, you know, if I had not been there to coach him through that, You know, that's where a lot of guys would have lost their cool and shot at the wrong time. So it's— what I'm getting at is there's that fine balance that you don't have a lot of time, but don't jump the gun either and take a shot you shouldn't take because those things can even eat at you more, particularly if it's a bad hit and you don't get them. You know, it could be guys with a frontal shot. If you're going to take a frontal shot, please make sure that— first of all, make sure that you're confident you could put that arrow where it needs to be. But also that the angle of that shot, that, you know, it's straight on and that animal's on a level playing field with you. It's not up the hill, right? You don't have any— or downhill. You don't have any chance of, of that arrow going through and penetrating vitals if there's a steep angle one way or the other, you know. So it's a lot of that is preparing yourself for that and thinking that through and trying to do it as much as you can in advance so that when the time happens, all you got to do is wait and execute. Versus trying to think through all that stuff. And then you either end up doing the wrong thing, whether that be taking a shot before you should or not getting a shot off at all.

There's a— I grew up watching Wayne Carlton and there's an old Wayne Carlton video and he's, he's hunting Roosevelt's. He's back where I grew up and he talks a lot about this bull standing there like 15 yards or whatever. He goes, he says something to the— I'm going to butcher the quote, but like something to the effect of, you know, sometimes if you give these bulls a chance, they'll give you a shot. And the bull is, you know, you could tell the bull's looking for him. He doesn't know, you know, and he's like— and he ends up turning, and then he turns and kind of gives him that broadside shot.

Yeah.

And I— that stuck with me from a very young age to know, like, when can— when is that bull going to give you the shot? It's the classic coyote, right? And, you know, hunters will tell you, like, oh, coyote's always going to stop and look at one more time, and if you're ready, you can pull a shot off. A lot of times elk will do that, but you have to be able to read the room, right? And so I love curiosity from an elk hunting perspective, and I love when a bull can't find me or is looking for me because he'll almost always give you that one more turn, right? But if you play the aggressive game and like that bull comes in hot and he doesn't see anything, there's a much faster shot clock, right? Like that bull comes in And if the room is like— the things are not what they're supposed to be, you know, he, he won't give you that. He's going to turn and burn every time, right? That's really tough to teach, is like, hey, this elk's gonna turn and burn as soon as he doesn't see what he's like. This elk is gonna come in and he's gonna, he's gonna give you 3 different angles and he's gonna turn broadside. That's really tough to teach. But I mean, if— maybe watch videos, watch videos and read the room on those things. But like, you have to practice.

I agree. And then for rifle hunters, of course, the one thing that even that seems to always work is that unless they smell you, it's different, right? When they smell you, it's game over. But if they're suspicious, they come in or, you know, for whatever reason, you know, they might catch you even move or whatever. But if you can execute a cow call and be ready, they'll always stop once and look. Always, you know, they'll stop and look over their shoulder and you get that quartering away shot. You just got to be ready, right? You got to be ready to— you got to almost be on them and, and be ready, you know?

Yeah. Well, I mean, it's the same as a coyote, right? Like, you know, coyotes running away, get on him. And like, I remember my dad telling, get on him, get on him, he's gonna stop. And then like, yeah, right as you cross that hill, like, you, you got 1 or 2 seconds before he's gonna stop and look one more time. But most people are watching outside of the scope. The coyote runs up the hill and he stops, and then you try to get on him, and by the time you get on him, he's gone. Right. And so it's like that elk, you almost have to anticipate like he's going to stop one more time.

Yep. And that's, that's one thing I will say that has translated for me. If I talk about rifle hunting for a minute, different than not with bow hunting, obviously, but from growing up shooting whitetails in tight windows through tight timber, I learned to get the gun up in advance and let them walk in. And I like to say let them walk in and take their picture. And it's the same thing with elk hunting, you know, you could be on that bull with your scope, right? And maybe you don't have the right angle or you don't have a clear shot. But like you said, you're not looking from outside your scope. You're looking through your scope. In fact, you've got it a little bit in front. And when he comes in to where you need him to be, you know, it just, it just got to happen, right?

Yeah.

And they don't give you a lot of time. They don't. But that part of whitetail hunting does translate.

Yeah, man, that's old school, like hunting elk in the timber and just, you know, pulling the scope, you're like, here's the lane, and you, you got to have the crosshairs on the lane. And when that elk crosses it, like, you're pulling the trigger.

You do, you know, probably one of the things, and everybody's got— I mean, the new rage, of course, now is, um, these super long-range scopes, the dial-up, the dial-up aspect of them and everything. But I'm old school on that. I mean, my shooting distance, I've killed several elk out to 430, I think, is the, is the furthest They've all been one-shot kills because I know my rifle and I do my homework at the range. But for me, for hunting, I like a 2.5 to 10 power scope. I mean, number one, if it's in a rifle scabbard, if I am riding on horseback where those big scopes, a lot of times you need a special scabbard just to get them on a horse or mule. But, you know, when I'm still hunting myself and when I'm on the move, you know, or if I'm tracking a wounded animal even, I got my scope down on 2.5 power because I can shoot really quick like that, you know, really quick. And if I need the 10 power, I got it. But I like having that ability to crank that scope down. You know, it enables me to shoot a lot quicker.

Do you spend much time still hunting the timber for elk?

I do. Not, not in the bedding areas, but not in the bedding areas. I mean, I might do that the last day of my hunt if I really get in a pinch. And most of the time when I do do that, it's not when they're bedded. It's when it's like after a fresh snow. And I know, I know that they're up feeding because if they're up feeding, you got a chance. If they're bedded, you got zero chance. They see every time unless you can get above them and glass them, you know. But if they're up on their feet, a lot of times I, man, I've walked right up on them, man, in fresh snow and, you know, and there they are. And I've shot, I've shot some elk like 35 yards that way in snow, you know. But you know, that's, that's kind of coming from hunting whitetails back east and you know, it's got to be the right circumstances, you know.

Yeah. What I mean, like right circumstances, like what's, what's the optimal time of day? And obviously fresh snow would be key. But like what's, what's the right circumstance look like to be still hunting the timber?

I would say like when you start getting into later in the morning right before they bed, you know, where they're still And you know, if you can hear them talking or something, even, you know, when you're trying to slip in and, you know, I'm not afraid to use my glasses, my binoculars when I'm going through the timber because I'm not looking for whole elk. Obviously I'm looking just for, for movement and pieces of animals. But it's before, before that catching them where they're going from feeding into the bedding areas. But, you know, you need to be quiet walking and you need to be, you know, you're really not walking here. I mean, you're, you're taking maybe one step every 10 minutes, you know, being really careful, you know. And obviously if, if there's a bunch of animals, the more animals there is, the harder there is to do. So, or harder it is to do.

But are you like, is your ideal— I'm fascinated by still hunting the timber and I grew up kind of doing it. My dad's what my, my dad did, killed a lot of elk that way. But are you glassing at first light and, and dark? Are you just hunting areas that maybe you can't even glass? Because in my mind, if I can hunt Colorado, in my mind, like, anything you can glass is, I don't know, not useless, but it's definitely not my priority. And I'm like very interested in like, hey, how do we find areas where no— like, first of all, everyone right now, you know, you can say there's an onX problem where everyone kind of sees the same thing and goes the same places. But for the most part, I also think that that creates places or habitats where everyone's hunting where they can glass a lot, right?

Right.

For, for certain reasons, right? Like, it works. There's— if you take a unit where it's like, man, you got the only way to hunt this entire unit, there's no vantage point, it's all like mediocre timber, you got a pretty good opportunity there. No one else is going to be still hunting that timber for miles on end. So like, I don't know, maybe there's an opportunity, you know?

You know, for me I'd say where, where I get really excited about that is, is that if we get, you know, you get stormy weather the afternoon and the evening and then it snows overnight, the next morning I'm out and I'm looking for fresh tracks. And, you know, when I pick up a fresh track and particularly there's— I know that there's a bull within them or it's a bull track, you know, I'm following that track, you know, and I'm being really careful. I'm being really careful of the wind. I'm using my binos. To look ahead. And then the real key is I'm looking, I'm looking at the terrain, you know, when I can get— my favorite is where you can get to that terrain, maybe you got cover or you got a little bit of uphill and then it kind of drops off and catch them in those little openings. That's, that's where you can get them, you know. So it's really using those factors, you know, and assessing how they're moving and everything, you know. It's not hard to tell if they're If they're spooked, it's not hard to tell. They're hustling along. They're just kind of walking in middle along, and you can see that they're feeding. You know, I'm going real slow and I'm watching the tracks. I'm looking ahead, and then I'm using the terrain to try to figure out where I might be able to get the jump on one. And that's worked for me quite a bit over the years.

So see, that's a dying art. I don't think there's a lot of people out there that have that skill. That's a different skill set than what currently exists in the, in the elk hunting world.

Yeah. Yeah, no, I, I hear you, but oh man.

Well, I appreciate it. Thanks, Bob, for coming on. Yeah, any, any way we can help you or any ask of the audience?

No, I just, I enjoy talking about this stuff. I'm on Instagram, Bob T756. Always willing to try to help other people or talk about stuff. You know, feel free to hit me up, you know, wherever the question be. Could be about elk hunting, how to select a good outfitter. That kind of stuff. So, you know, I eat, sleep, and drink this stuff in the offseason because, you know, now that I'm retired, except for the little bit of guiding I do, and I do got— I still guide quite a bit of fly fishing, you know, but it gives me something to do in the offseason. And, you know, probably the only negative about it is, you know, here it is, it's only March, and I did an elk hunting seminar last week. I'm doing this this week. This weekend I'm helping teach a packing clinic, and then in early April. I'm doing an elk calling seminar for first responders that all this stuff is getting me all wound up in September. Still a few months away, but, um, no, I really enjoy it, and it's a pleasure, Cody.

Yeah, well, thanks for having me. Thanks for coming on. Uh, yeah, I do podcasts. I get sometimes, like, this one, I get all excited. Now I want to go, like, get an over-the-counter Colorado elk tag and, like, start planning, you know.

So, yeah, I did hunt up in Montana. That's where you are, right? Yeah, yeah. Years ago, I hunted up in Montana. This is when I first moved to Colorado, up in Beaverhead National Forest. And man, I ran into a bunch of elk there. And unfortunately, I was at that time, I was in my mid-30s and man, I could go, you know, and I was hunting with a couple of guys that were the age of my dad and they recruited me to go because they said, we need somebody like you because, you know, you can pack elk and you cut and split firewood. And I did all that. But unfortunately, the night before the season opened, we got about 3 foot of snow. And I located this huge group of elk and they wanted to go because they just, they couldn't get to them through all the snow. And I understood, but it was, it was really hard for me at that time because I was so gung-ho to, to have to leave that. But that was my one experience out in Montana. I need to, need to get back up there. Also need to hunt Wyoming too.

I did Wyoming last year. I've done it a couple times and Wyoming's, man, it's a cool place. I need to do Colorado of all the things. Like, I feel like that's the one I, You know, probably need to cash points here pretty soon and, and just do a Colorado hunt, but we'll see one of these days.

Well, sounds good. Keep in touch, man. We might have to do that.

So, all righty. Well, appreciate it, Bob. Thanks so much.

Okay, have a good one, Cody.

See ya.

Yep.

Bye.

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