The Idaho Draw: What Changed and Where the Opportunities Are

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All right, young Jaden, we're going to talk about Idaho Hunting, killing elks in Idaho. Dude. I've been on a bender with Idaho podcast, by the way, and like, I hope the Idahoans aren't pissed at me because like I've put out three banger podcasts that like total didn't plan. This was like all Idaho bulls. Oops. Yeah, I know.

Well, the nice thing is is, I mean, non residents are capped and it's going to be a draw. So like they residents themselves aren't going to see more pressure. But I think the non resident thing.

For residents, I hate to armchair quarterbacks, we're gonna get some for this. But yeah, I feel like it's a good thing for residents.

I think it's the same. Yeah, I've turned it into the same system as like Wyoming where like residents have free for all, but then non residents are limited and not really a factor.

Okay, we're getting too far in the weeds. Here's what we're going to talk about. We're going to cover Idaho's new draw system. Maybe we'll talk a little bit about pros, cons and difference.

I kind of want to talk about like effects, cause and effector a little bit. Yeah. I don't know what else we want to talk about with this.

No, that would be good. I'm going to try to. So I did a whole like a webinar for Hunt west on this and they got a lot of insider info. We'll try to keep it a little more surface level, but then we can talk about how guys maybe can can choose a place to go. Because, dude, just like every western state, I feel like you could end up with three totally different styles of hunts. It's either like big mountains, backcountry, or you're in the thick freaking Pacific Northwest or you're in the desert. Like you could do anything. Yeah.

Okay. Broadly speaking, you go and then I'll go. Where do you put Idaho in the category of elk hunting?

Dude, because this draw is so early, I'm like, for someone who's been hunting elk and is like in the point game and stuff, I'm like, there's no reason, if you aren't going to force a draw somewhere this year, there's no reason not to throw it down. If you're someone who's been hunting elk.

Before, what do you say it has been like, well, people listening to this podcast, I guess. Well, maybe not. I don't know. Is there people listening with this podcast? Is the hardcore elk hunting podcast.

Yeah.

That have never hunted elk. Maybe.

Yeah. I get a Few.

I get a few who are like.

Hey, been binging Cody's Elkhon podcast and I've never been.

I was just saying I feel like we talk over a lot of people's head. It can, there's some.

It can happen.

We're getting weeds.

Here's the thing. So I just did this love hate podcast on and I'm probably gonna get a bunch of crap for that. But like, I made like an archetype, like a type of hunter. And then I said, what states? I love what states. I don't know. I put Idaho as. I love it for someone who's burnt their points and is an elk hunter already. Yeah, because it's like, dude, you could pick up something and just be like, oh, sweet, now I can build points in these other states.

Yeah.

But for a newbie, man, like, if you can't go back and learn a place multiple years in a row because of the random draw, like, I don't like that.

And how, how do you think it's going to affect the party hunting? Because, I mean, now you can go back to party application. So this, this to me is the. We didn't get into my thoughts on it, but this to me changes everything because the frustration with the old system was 1000% that you couldn't go hunt with your buddies. And I like you and I tend to hunt alone. But yeah, I, I would say most people don't. And so like now I feel like, like, oh, okay, this is like our party hunt. It also is very different because some places you can do that, but it gets harder. Right. And so we, we kind of work into this like, structure, like new. I don't know, I guess you can party hunt New Mexico too, where we tend to draw tags in other states by ourselves because points are different. Whatever. Colorado's like, I can't. You and I can't party because if our points are different, you know, like, it just, it's kind of a pain. Right. So with Colorado changing, I feel like Idaho becomes the new party group.

Yeah.

Do you think there's anything to that?

Dude, I was just at Thanksgiving in eastern Oregon having this exact conversation with my brother's father in law.

Oh, really?

Yeah, because he used to hunt Idaho a lot. As in, like, he lived there for a little bit and then left and hunts it with his brother and stuff. And they're talking about, yeah, now we can do party apps and go back to hunting it. But they'd taken a few years off.

Yeah, I, I don't know if that's a good thing or bad? Like, yeah, we get. I. I don't love Idaho, like, ironically did all these podcasts. Dude. Last year I was about to do the draw, John Gabriel and I had this conversation. I get so excited to see what number draw I'm gonna get. And I have no tag that I want in the general. No offense. Like, I just don't need it. And I'm in a fortunate place. I have enough points other places, I have enough hunts other places. I have my home state. Right. And so if you don't have a home state, I get it. But, like, I would just jump into that draw to see what number I got. And that was about it. I feel that way about the draw next week or whatever. It's like, I just don't care. I don't. There's not a lot of hunts I want to do.

Yeah, there's.

That's. There's not a lot of hunts in that 301 category. But how many dudes are going to just use it as a fallback to be like, oh, well, I'll get this tag? Which I think is most everyone, because it's early. Yeah.

And I think it's like the perfect. Oh, boy, this is going to. It's like the perfect 201 state to, like, go and learn elk. Yeah. And, like, put pieces together. It doesn't have. It doesn't seem to have, like, the luck into elk like you might have in.

In.

In like a Colorado, though.

I do think it's a good 201 state because two things, the party. So if you mo. I don't know. I feel like most 201 hunters are still party hunting. They're still, like. Because, like, it reduces cost.

Right.

Like, straight up reduces fuel costs. Like, that's a huge piece of it. So I do think that, like, a lot of them are there, so you're going to have a lot of those.

Yeah, I. I think it's good. I mean, everyone's gonna want the tag just because it's the first. And then, you know, like, it changes everything on how it changes the entire draw strategy. And you and I have talked, I mean, endlessly about, you know, draw strategy. Right. But if you have an elk tag in your pocket, everything's different. Everything is different. You know, it's like that fail safe, I think draw odds. Where do you think they stand against New Mexico?

Dude, it's gonna be hard to draw something. Like, I think that there's a big difference between the highest demand tags and then the low demand Tax like there's going to be some that you can pick up super, super easy in Idaho. But then the ones that people really want, like that have been going fast. Yeah.

Like the Frank Church is still going.

To be like, people are going to be able to hunt that.

Yeah, yeah.

But go fast are going to be like, I bet you they're 10, 20 or less. Oh yeah.

I think you're far too high. Yeah, I think, I think the sawtooth will be sub 1%.

No kidding.

Yeah, that's my guess. I don't know.

I could, I could see it.

The only difference, everyone in their dog is gonna put in for this.

But the only difference is, and I will say non resident traveling hunters, whatever, have shown that they're very price insensitive. But the only difference would be that you have to put it. You can't just hop in line now. You have to get the, the license before you put in.

Isn't that always. It's, that's the way it is everywhere.

You have to. In the previous system you could get in line, see if your tag was there and then purchase the license with your tag. All right. Yeah. So I mean you have an immediate, let's just call it 200 upfront cost. But I don't know how price sensitive people are. I don't think very.

Yeah, I, I think you could look at the case study called New Mexico and be like, probably not going to be great.

That's a good point. Because in New Mexico.

Well, and it's 82 though.

What?

80 what isn't it 80? New Mexico license isn't 80. It's like cheap.

Yeah, the license is cheap. But then you still have to front the cost.

Which I don't have to front the cost in Idaho.

It didn't seem like it. There's no application fee.

Oh really?

Yeah, yeah.

And you're gonna tell me it's lower than New Mexico.

So the other piece of it that gave. And fish like Idaho game and fish put out this thing because I was trying to find all the details that game fish put out about Idaho and they were like, yeah, we're not charging an application fee. But reading between the lines are like, we kind of messed up. We should be. So I would expect there to be.

Okay, increasing one side tangent here. How long does Wyoming hold your money?

They take it in January and then they get you your results in May. So like February, March, April, then part of May. So almost four months.

Yeah, let's just call it four months. How many millions do you think they take in.

Dude, I should know this because I've looked at this, but it's a lot. It's a lot.

So tell me the interest they're pulling on that dollars. Like you can't tell me they're taking. It's got to be a hundred million. Let's even say it's 50 million. $50 million and they're gaining interest on that for four months. Like if you're not doing it, you're stupid. Like for the record. Yeah, yeah. But like, anyway, yeah, so Idaho is really dumb for not doing that. I don't know what the strategy is there. Like, I. They seem to be a shoot from the hip kind of company.

Yeah.

Okay. So to sum it up, I do think Idaho's good. I mean, honestly, like, who's not going to try to put a tag in their pocket if there's zero upfront cost? Almost zero upfront cost. The cost of a license.

Yeah.

Like you're gonna bet, right? I tend. Do the question becomes do you bet big or bet small? I think if you want to have a tag in your pocket, I think bet middle of the road. If you're a 201 guy, I think there's a lot of tag. A lot of areas. Zones, I guess they're called. I think a lot of those zones are a good back pocket tag. Right.

What do you think about like the hard, the hard places to hunt, like the panhandle and like the frank and like the places that no one really wants to go to. Can a guy learn in those?

That's a really great question. And I, I would say don't just get tags to have tags. Like I'm a, let's talk archery. I use the term a lot. Leave elk to find elk. It just came up recently and I do think there's a difference in rifle and archery on that statement for sure. With that said.

Dude, I had a great conversation this morning about like, if you wanted to build the perfect elk hunter, what would you put them through? What would like, what would the encounters or experiences be? Right. And I, I'll pick on Colorado because I do think that Colorado can be pretty terrible. Like if you're like, oh, I want to create an NFL level player, but they only get to practice one week a year in a men's league.

Right.

Do you think they became an NFL player? Probably not. Right?

Yeah.

So like Colorado is kind of that. So like I, I want to say I am in a stage in my life where I don't want bad elk tags anymore. Now there's A difference because I'll take some really shitty hunts and that is grinder out. Like, I, I can turn out 350bull, but I'm also not optimizing for becoming the best. Well, it's optimizing a different game. So if I was trying to optimize, if I am like Joe Blow and I am Joe Blow and I want to be good at elk hunting, and this is my whole shtick is like, I'm help you become a better elk hunter, not help you kill elk for Instagram. And if you want to be great elk hunter, don't get as few crappy hunts as you can be on better hunts. Like, it's like the guy who hunts Washington for 10 years and asked me why he hasn't kill an elk yet. I'm like, because you're hunting a really crappy terrain, really low at bats, really low. All the things, right? That said, any elk hunt's better than no elk hunt. And so if you live in Missouri and you're like, well, all I can get is Colorado. All I can get is the panhandle of Idaho. It's going to make you better. But I can promise you like, a Wyoming General tag is going to like, be a far different experience and you're going to get three times more at bat. So all of this is to say like, who. How should I think about Idaho and the draw?

I think trophy quality doesn't matter because none of it's good.

Yeah, like, sure, like for the most.

Part, optimized for at bats. Like, and I don't want to, like, I don't want to belittle it, but like the difference between a 300 inch bowl and a 270 bowl, like, is.

It, it's not worth picking apart.

It's not worth, like, yeah, it's. I would rather have 10 opportunities at 260 bulls than I would one opportunity to 300 inch bowl. Like, I, like, maybe that makes me, I don't know, trophy hunter. But like, I just think you should optimize for like experience at paths and like you could get into the next level of stuff. Like, what kind of hunt do you want, dude? Like, like I want to go on this type of hunt. You probably talk to clients like this all the time. You're like, well, what kind of hunt do you want, right? Do you want to go hunt a sage brush? Do you want to like, whatever. And I just had, I had a conversation earlier this year with a guy's like, well, I'm thinking about doing this hunt, but you Know th. This one has better trophy. I'm like, well, what kind of hunter do you want to be? Like, do you want to get really good at hunting open terrain? Do you want to get good at hunting prairie bowls? Because if that's the case, just do that. Like, maybe it's less at bats, but like, you're like, this is the game I want to play. I love the prairie. I love sagebrush. I love finding elk where they don't exist. Then go play that game. Right? And go play that game in Idaho and then go play that game in Montana. Go play that game in Wyoming. Like, you can get good at, like, kind of choose your skill. Like, I think you can choose your professional cutting kind of.

Yeah.

Like, do you want to be a deep woods collar guy? Don't just get a tag in northern Idaho because he's like, it was available. Like, try to like, focus on that. Right?

Yeah. Well, it goes back to this thing. Like, I always want when I'm talking to somebody, I feel like they need to have something they can do and learn and be good at regularly.

Right.

And like you said, whether it's just the skill set you're learning or like a place that you're learning and like, for the most part.

It'S so hard to go back to a place.

Right.

You know, like, that's kind of like step one is like, can you go back to a place while you're building the points and building the strategy and trying to draw the better tags?

Right.

I like that.

But how do you balance that with like, okay, you can go to unit one in Idaho every single year.

Yeah.

I think you're not learning anything, you know, the hell out of that canyon.

I think that's where people go back to. What you and I have talked about a lot is like, okay, what's the style? Like, where can I go back? And to make it a good hunt, maybe you have to hunt cows or spikes.

Yeah, I. I could not agree more. I just think I get. I get a little frustrated because I do feel like the community is so stuck on like the Go Hunt filtering tool. Right. Like, yeah, there's a Go Hunt filtering problem where people like, filter for like trophy quality and they see that 320 or 350, whatever, and they're like, right to it. They're like a. Yeah, bug to a bug zapper, dude.

And it's so funny because it's just every time that I think that, you know, you think, you know what a place can produce, then it either under produces or over Produces, like depending on the year, right? And you're like, oh, my goodness. Like, like this guided hunt I did this last year. We kept telling Everybody it's a 280 to 300 inch bull hunt. Saw four bowls over 330 this year. And I was like, huh? Like, not gonna. Not gonna change how I describe it. But I was like, dang. So I think that's the same with Idaho.

100%. Like, can a 330 bull come out of most of those units? 100%? Like, there's not many places that are so shot out that you can't get a bull in that 330 C. Like, that's. I mean, it's kind of like bucks. Like, you can get a 180 buck in a lot of units. You know, like, even if whatever filtering tool you're using says yeah, like this thing. So I do think that, like, there's always potential in those units. Dude, there. There could be a 330 bull in northern Idaho. Like 100%. That's a great bull. And I always think about, like, dude, I grew up hunting Roosevelts in western Oregon, and I can still tell you I haven't been there in a long time. I can still probably tell you where. If you told me I actually know where multiple 350 bulls are, that if I looked at the filtering, do you think that those units would say 350? No, they're not. Like, doesn't.

So.

But what that does is like, it tends to just suck in the certain percentage of the population. It's like, only interested in, you know, 320 bulls. And they're not the hardcore hunters. Which is ironic that.

That's exactly what I was gonna say is like, the ironic part is most of those people who are filtering for like the highest trophy quality aren't.

They're filtering for like 80, though. Like, yeah, I feel like everyone is going, oh, well, like, what's a good bowl? Yeah, they're not filtering for 350. No, no, you filter for 350. You get top three units, right.

And you can't draw those. And.

Yeah. So then they're like, well, let's just go back to 320. Yeah, yeah, 315. That's a good bull. And it's like 315. I guarantee, like, I don't know, 80% of the units that might be touch high. At least 60% of the units in the state of Idaho could produce or have in the history produced a 315 bull. 320bu. Yeah, probably maybe 80%.

Like 80%.

My point being, choose the hunt you want. Choose the hunt that's going to make you a better elk hunter at the elk hunter. You want to be. You want to be a great elk caller? Great. You want to be Glosser? Great. Like, choose a unit and then like consistency. Choose a unit you can get. Right. And it may not be every year. Maybe it's every three years. Right. And then you're like on this three year cycle where it's like, okay, I hunt these three states and that's a good cycle.

Yeah.

Used to be like a, I, I, I used to dream of like a five year cycle. We had epic tag every year. But it was like on a five year cycle. It's definitely a moving target. I don't know if that's a thing.

Okay. So you opened a can of worms there.

Oh, boy.

Dude. Instead of a fight. Cuz that was exactly how I thought of it too. Is like a five year rotation. Yeah. But now what it's come down to is I have one or two, maybe even three places that I like to hunt or tags that I would like to hunt every year. And then I get like one tag that's somewhere random that I've never been. Instead of having like this like, oh, I'm gonna go to a new place every year. It's like, man, just that not been very effective.

It's don. I do think there's like holes in the five year cycle theory which are like changes in five years.

Yeah.

It's really hard to be consistent that I think. Yeah. And maybe this is like a 301 thing. But it's like, I do feel like I, it's hard. I'm hard pressed to leave the state of Montana for archery hunting.

Yeah.

And it goes back to the Idaho thing.

Like, it's your backyard.

It's my backyard. Great genetics. Great hunt. Long season. Like, it appeals. Right. With that said, you know, I wouldn't go, I just wouldn't go to Idaho for an archery.

For one week. Archery hunt in general.

Yeah. And like, it would have to be a specific scenario if, like, my buddies were like, hey, we're doing this hunt. I was like, I want to go hang out with you guys. Oh, I can elk while I hang out with you guys maybe.

Which, which is how you did it last time. Right. Like your buddies went to go and you're like, hey, let's roll. Yeah.

Yeah. They're like, hey, let's go shoot. That started as a deer hunt, by the way.

You guys killed like Three bulls, didn't you?

Yeah. Stuart and I told Stuart that we were gonna go on a mule deer hunt and our two other buddies found out and they're like, oh, we're coming. Like it's not like a hey, can we come? It's like, what the hell? Like we're coming. And then it was like, dude, you know you can get elk tags in this unit. Why are we hunting deer? And like all of a sudden it turned into a, a an entire four person elk hunt when it started as a two person deer hunt.

So yeah, that's funny. But it's, it's funny. I do think, and this is a strategy I like a lot probably just cuz it's benefited me too. But I like it when you can put in for a deer tag or an elk tag in this case in Idaho, maybe do both in the same unit and whatever one you pull then you hunt that species and you learning something for the next time, whether you hunt deer or elk there. And I'm obviously you're not going to be in the exact same spots, but at least from a deer hunting perspective, dude, I've had to like try to beat elk away with a stick to try to find a deer in there. And like I think that's the thing you ran into.

It is always the thing. I here's how I should elk hunt. I should choose a deer unit and go deer hunting. And then like. But yeah, secretly no, I don't have a deer tag. I only have an elk tag. And I will find elk. Promise you. Like, yeah, it could not be known for elk. And if I, if I scout it for. This is why I'm a terrible deer hunter. Because I just find out. Which is funny because I don't feel like I scout them the same. Like if I escounted two places, I would not like if I was looking for elk e scouting I don't think I would choose some of the places I've chosen. But if I like I'm like, I'm gonna go find a mule deer here and I'll be like, heard elk. Perfect.

Yeah, dude. But that was why that was. That was how I got into a couple of weird units and like have found elk in them. Is like doing deer hunts out there. It's.

You think there's something you said though that like deer hunters will learn that there's elk. Elk there. And so like yeah, I think it's.

So it goes back to like the deer hunting strategy. Do I remember you saying this once on a podcast? But Deer hunting strategy is like, how do you find these animals without them bugling?

Right.

And then for elk hunting, like you said one time, like, how would you hunt these elk without them bugling? And 90 of September, it feels like elk aren't bugling unless it's a night.

Yeah.

You know, and it's like people then can implement a different strategy than just tooting on a bugle tube the whole day.

Like, well, how would you find these elk if you were deaf?

Yeah. Oh, that'd be. That wouldn't make elk hunting very fun, but that'd be.

Yeah.

Like a way to approach it.

Yeah, changes your. Yeah, changes your tactic. All right, so hypothetically, do you like the wilderness? Do you like the low country? Do you like the high country for Idaho 201 elk hunting?

Dude, I've been on. I hate that someone's gonna get frustrated that I said this, but I've been on such a private public hustle kick.

We did a podcast last year where I told you I was like, man, I just, I haven't killed a bull in the backcountry yet. Like, let's go do that. And then we did it. And I'm like, okay, cool, let's go back to the private public hustle.

So now that's like the, the thing I'm back on. I just have found that there's more overlooked spots in like the non obvious areas. I've had this conversation a lot. Like, when you go to the middle of the green, right, you're gonna see other people like every single time.

The other thing I want to kick on is like, what's the hardest thing to hunt? Yeah, like, what's the hardest terrain to hunt? Which is like, there's no glassing, right? So like, I think of rifle elk hunting where it's like there's just nowhere to see these elk from. Because like the one thing. Okay, so for a long time it was go deep wilderness. Like, what's the. No road barrier. No road layer on onyx. Right? Like that would tell you where they were. Now that tells you where the people are. So like, what is the next thing? And it was like everyone got into open country glassing. So like anything that's very glassable, broken terrain or not, like, is there's 14 of your best friends on, right? So now I'm constantly like evolving to like, what is the hardest, like, stupid hard to hunt. Like, like you're just never going to kill a bull there. That's like. And like, then there's got to be enough of it.

But even. Yeah, whether it's deer or elk, it's like, how do I get creative with this and get into, like, often times, what it'll end up looking like. I don't know about you, but it looks like a really crappy hike. And then, like, for nothing. Yeah, most of the time it's for nothing, but it's a really crappy hike in the dark. And then you get up to the glassing knob and then I end up glassing some stuff that is not actually that far from a road. But it took me a big effort to get to the spot to look into the place. That's.

Yeah, big effort, big reward, which is like you hike five miles to a glassing knob where you can see the entire unit. It's worthless. It's absolutely worthless. Yeah. Anymore. I say that roughly. It's still. It's not. Yeah. Anyway, this episode of the podcast is brought to you by Tricer. They make gear that's fast, light and simple. From amazing tripods to binyomounts, panheads, truck mounts, and now even bipods, Tricer makes gear that's fast, light and simple. I love their gear. And if you're looking for a new system for better glassing, check out Tricer. Head over to the website, tricer.com they make great products and it's just a great company.

Awesome.

Dude's been using the heck out of the bipod. Killed a lot of critters with it. Head over the website, use the code TRO and you'll save yourself 10% at checkout. Mostly. Mostly useless to your point. Five mile hike where you can see like 12 square feet of like one timber pocket.

Very useful as long as there's a bull there, right? Yeah, right.

The, the, the more ridiculous it is is like you hiked five miles around right back to the road and you can see it from the road. Probably even better because, like just the ridiculousness of the hike is like a little bit. You know, I used to feel like you could like find ones are like, okay, here's the freeway. No one's thinking about this pocket next to the freeway. Don't know if that's true anymore. It probably is some truth in certain situations, but like the old, you know, like, oh, you have to cross a river right here and then, you know, you don't have to go as far. So like, just difficulty.

I don't think it's as useful as it used to be. But the one thing that, like, I think will remain king because I do think there's so much And Idaho is very good at this. There's so much terrain that is just really hard to hunt.

Yeah.

Like, even where we stack those bulls, there's a lot of places. I was east county the other day. There's a lot of places where it's like, dude, that's difficult. Like, there's this pocket and there's nowhere to see it from. There's nowhere good. There's. I don't know.

I think that's why Idaho is not a 101 state for most of the guys I talked to.

Because it's hard.

Cause it's hard.

Like there's a ton of people.

Ton of people. And it's physically like, you can find places in like a Colorado or Montana or Wyoming where it's physically not as hard. And for a guy who like just needs to be mobile and bouncing around a lot like, it's better for that than most of the classic Idaho units.

Do you think Idaho to be successful, you have to have some kind of asset for vehicle. Like is in a dirt bike, a mule, e bike. You think, like, that's necessary?

Dude, like every conversation I've had this year, I at some point will be like, so do you have a dirt bike? Like, it's like one of those places. And I just talked to a guy about it and I was like, dude, Idaho has beat the bejesus out of my truck every time I've been there. Right. And like I've or. And I've needed a four wheeler or I've dented my pickup.

Like Arizona, you're not. You're not successfully hunting Arizona without a side by side.

Yeah.

Like, you know, the whole use the quads God gave you is a joke. Like. Yeah, you're just not walking 20 miles a day.

Yeah. The only way around that is if you have. And this is so important. It's like you were just e scouting a place that you've been to already. But like, we're maybe looking at going back to or whatever. Dude, it's like you gotta escout it before you. Before you pull the trigger on it. Because yeah, maybe you are someone who just has a freaking. You're like, oh, I'm gonna save. Save gas money and drive my Subaru out there. And you're like, brother, you only have a couple units that you should be looking at.

Like, yeah, you just have to have. I mean, these days you kind of have to have the acid. And it's like, I just think that it's very difficult in Idaho to just show up and hike A hike from a trailhead. Yeah. A off trail navigation is very difficult in Idaho. Most things are pretty rugged. So any trail, you can just drive your Subaru.

Yeah, yeah.

Your Ford Ranger, any. Well, there's levels to that conversation. But if we can get the ranger danger there like you, hiking from that trail head is probably not that useful. Yeah. Yeah. Just trying to get away from people.

Yeah, I think that's exactly right. But there's some. There's some lower elevation stuff I think a glassing guy might be able to get away with without like. But you're also going to deal with a lot lower elk numbers is how I. That's how I'd think about it. Yeah.

There's levels to that.

Yeah. What else we're gonna talk about. I know mostly.

Yeah. The one thing.

Okay.

This might be getting too specific, but at risk of needing to cut this out, I'm going to.

The one thing that guys like are. It's super popular. Well, I wouldn't say it's super popular. Super romantic is like doing the fly in. Doing fly in hunts in Idaho.

Or the jet boat.

Or the jet boat. Do you think that's. Do you think that's a worthwhile hunt to kill an elk or is it a worthwhile hunt for an adventure?

That's a good question. What, what's our goal? Like, you're Joe Blow, not Jaden. What's your, like, what do you want out of it?

I want to kill a six point.

I think a couple things, like, I don't wanna.

I don't want to undersell the adventure side of it because I'm like, do things for the adventure.

Yeah.

Do. Cool. That scares you. I do think, like call the jet boat the fly in. I think it is like, I think it's a cool adventure and like, for Joe Blow, who's never done cool, epic, it's a great experience. Do I think it's the best way to kill a six point? Probably not. But like, I do think it's a really cool experience. With that said, I think you can make it good. I think it has its limitations. I think the problem people run into is they romanticize these things and then think it's going to be like some, you know, pristine 18 point unit just because they like flew in.

Yeah.

It's like, dude, there was a guy there the week before you and a guy there before that. Like. Like there's. It's not that great. So I think it's easy. I've kind of been guilty in this on Alaska trips where it's like, oh, dude, we're getting, we're getting flown in. And you know, it's like in a, like these elk everywhere see a human before, it's going to be an elk on every ridge and then they half ass it. Right. So they like, they, they go into it being like, oh, we're just going to go figure it out. You know, Whereas like if you told me this was the hardest general season hunt you'd ever done, like, there's something about, you know, going to Arizona on the unlimiteds where you're like, I have to go into this hunt so prepped. I have to like know how to navigate. I have to get around. Like I know how hard this hunt is going to be. And so my prep is 10 times harder. I escout harder. I know every glassing vantage point, I know how to get there. Like all these things you do ten times more. So I think the inherent problem is people think that because they got flown in somehow magically, this is an easier hunt and so they prep less and then they get punched in the mouth when it's a hard hunt. Like it's still a hard hunt. I don't know. I don't even know that. It's like less people maybe, but maybe not. Like I think it's just different. And so it's a really cool adventure. But don't confuse that with a good hunt.

That's so important. I think, and this is a vast generalization and I want you to either confirm or deny this. Idaho is one of the places where you can go to the furthest point in the unit, the back country, and there will be no animals.

Yeah, 100. Yeah, it doesn't. There's no correlation between deep and animal quality. Like they are where they are. And I think the, you know, like dudes that are killing a lot of stuff, or big stuff, either one are super mobile. And I think that's the thing is like Idaho is a pockety state. It's heavily pressured. But there are animals there have good numbers. And it's not about finding the secret hole, it's about being able to find like being efficient with your mobility. Yeah. And the true problem with any fly and hunt, Alaska, Idaho doesn't matter, is you're stuck. You are now mobile and you are confined to what you can, your legs can do. So you're like, you're on a five mile radius, like roughly speaking. So I think like the benefit of Idaho is I hate to say this, someone's gonna. Whatever, it doesn't matter. The dirt bike situation in Idaho is interesting because you can cover more ground, right? And I still think you have to have a really good plan built around that strategy and you have to cover a lot of ground. But like, I don't know. Pick a unit. Unit 28, right? Like, let's. Nah, I think that's a wilderness unit.

It's only.

There's not much wilderness, is it not? Okay, so like.

I don't know, like, it doesn't matter if there's actual roads in there or not. Pick a unit. It's like if you can cover that unit on dirt bike, like you, you just have to understand that other people are doing that too. But like, how does this benefit me, right? And I've said this before, but like, I kind of, I really like units with high motor motor vehicle use because it tends to like, once people get on a dirt bike or a four wheeler, they kind of like, they lean too much into it and so they don't do the like little offshoots. And so like, there is a benefit. Like I can cover a lot of ground and then hike a little ways and just do that consistently. And I'm, I'm covering like it may look, I may look at onx and see a bunch of white purple where you can drive around. But the reality is is most people are just driving glassing from their four wheeler. So it's like, okay, that kind of deducts most of it. But most people aren't getting off the road a mile or two in the four wheeler areas because they can. But the benefit of a four wheeler dirt bike area, whatever it may be, is that you can cover a bunch of ground, right? And so like, you have to like build your hunt strategy around that to where it's like, dude, we're going to cover this entire unit. Like, we're going to cover all three units that are in my block. Say I have an archery tag. I have an A tag. And it's like, oh, we're going to cover all three of these units and we're going to hunt this pocket. This pocket, this pocket. We're going to bounce around. We're going to ride our dirt bike 20 miles over here. We're going to bounce over here 10 miles. We're going to glass from this spot. We're like. And so it's just like, there are elk. If I have three units that I can hunt, they're elk in those three units. Promise you multiple groups. How do we find them? How do we efficiently move around? And so like, I Think that's a huge benefit. I don't know where. Where do you think the say the Internet? Where do you think people stand on that? Because I do think of ebbs and flows. Like people are anti dirt bike, anti four wheeler. They romanticize the backpacking thing. Where do you think?

Dude, it's just. It goes back to like more tools in the toolbox.

Right.

If you can have it. I literally had this conversation yesterday with a guy about Idaho. And I was. He was like, well, do you think, like there's going to be a bunch of ATVs and four wheelers and dirt bikes? I was like, yeah, but those people exact. I told them exactly what you said just now. I was like, but they're not leaving right the those trails very often unless they can see an elk from it. So if you can just add a little bit of English on it, like.

Yeah, it's a classic. Like when all you have is a hammer, all you see is nails. And so most people, you know, they are. They have their hammer, which is their dirt bike. Right. And so they're gonna just like do what dirt bike guys do. The same was true when horses, like when I used to use horses a lot more. Like, it was like, oh, all horse guys, you know, they. They tend to get in this at like, it's like, oh, here's what horse guys do. And so you start to like realize that pattern. I go, how do I break that pattern? Which is like, be a horse guy to get to camp and then be a backpack guy.

I mean, it's exactly what we did on our Wyoming.

100%.

Yeah.

100% true. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. I think that's huge, dude. Something you just said that. I just went on a huge rant on my podcast about was and I. This is another one. I've probably poked the bear a bunch this week with that last podcast. Anyway, is I said, why honey? Like, I went on this rant about why honey holes die.

Oh.

And like, why you gotta. You just cannot be married to a honey hole. It can be good for man if you can have a honey hole that's good for 20 years. I mean like, good on you. But like, I have never found one.

Yeah. I. So I learned this blacktail hunting growing up. Like, because honey hole when you're. When you're blacktail hunting is like a certain age of reprod, right. And it has that. And so like you just never have a honey over very long. It's like a repro reprods like a regrowth timber section Is essentially gotta be, let's call it eight years old. And it's that perfect blend of like you can see into it. The deer are still using it it but like they feel secure. It's like a burn, right. But like burns change, feed changes, all these things change. I do feel like it's a older generation. That would be like there's always elk and no, tell them crick. You know, it's like, yeah, there's places sure where like elk kind of congregate. But pressure changes, habitat changes, everything changes.

Yeah.

Which is. Dude, Gabriel and I had this conversation.

Eastern Montana. I maybe all mon. Mostly eastern Montana is very like, it's tough because elk are not where they used to be. Like every year is like a clean slate. You have no idea what it's going to be.

Right.

And so it's like scouting. You're like starting to notice pattern differences between years before. But like, dude, everything changes and that makes it really difficult. So the concept of a honeyhole is like, dude, delete that. Delete that from your 101 memory.

Yeah.

Do you think that's good advice, dude?

I think it's so good. And it goes back to like even just getting tags.

Right.

Like someone. And I'll tell you offline who it was, but like someone was ribbing me pretty hard for doing all this stuff around like state specific things. He's like, this is how things get ruined. He's like. Or no, he said this is how Idaho got ruined because too many non residents were going there and now I can't get the tags that I wanted to. And I was like, look, I can understand and sympathize with that. Like that's happening with my hunts too. But also if that person doesn't have a good system to find a new hunt, like they're all, they're stuck in the problem.

Like, yeah, it's a fixed first growth mindset which like plagues the industry, plagues all hunting. And I think maybe honey hole falls into that like fixed mindset of like, here's where I go and here's where I kill my elk. And I, I sympathize with that. Like, you know, my dad was very much like a, you know, fixed mindset. Like, here's what you do, here's how you kill an elk every year. And you know, to me, I've always just been the growth mindset of like every new thing creates a thing. Right. And so like I'll never lose because I am just only looking for the new. It goes back to like, the whole, like, my new thing is like, okay, all open country is kind of screwed. So, like, what, like the. The old Onx thing? Like, oh, Onx ruined hunting. Like, no, it just created a giant void. Like a pendulum swung. It became easier, which is once you understand human behavior, you understand everything, which is like, hu. It was easier for humans to find public than it was to ask for permission before. It was easier to ask permission than it was to find public. All it did was pivot the other way. And so then you talk to these old ranchers and they're like, yeah. No one ever asks anymore. Like, yeah, because it's really easy to look on my phone and say, like, whatever. So, like, every opportunity, every. Every downfall creates an opportunity, right? Every. Every thing that happens is like, I'm looking at, like, what's this creates? What's the secondary and tertiary effects of Idaho creating a draw, right? What does that create? What else does that do? So that's just how my brain works, I think, man. I. I think the best hunters are always finding those new opportunities. You know, Like, Sean Mellon posted something about, like, if. If it's already, like, if people are doing it, it's too late. Like, and so he's been the king of, like, the cutting edge. And I don't think it's just because you can predict it. It's because, like, you're good at analyzing and saying, like, okay, if this, then what, if that, then what? And right? And so, like, man, if everyone's gonna start doing this, what's that, dude? Like, you're looking for those opportunities. Good life lesson. Like, here's how you find those opportunities. So, like, I definitely. Sometimes you'll just sit back and be like, man, what are. What's everyone doing? Like, what's the interest?

Classic example. Everyone became very into, like, backcountry hunting there for a bit, right? I still. That's why I asked you. I was like, what's the sentiment? Like, how do. How do things change? So if everyone's gonna be a backcountry hunter, I'm gonna go road hunt.

Yeah. Yeah. But it is funny because you were just talking about how for where you're at in your game, you're like, man, like, the open country, it's blown up. Like, it's. It's screwed. And for most people listening, they're probably.

Like, all into it.

Well, they probably are, like, just now realizing that that's an option, right? You know, and like, to no fault of their own, like, they're not. You know, they don't have 20 something years of hunting elk.

Yeah.

And like being in, in the mix.

Everyone'S a different phase for sure. And like you're. I don't think.

I think open country hunting elk is probably not dead. Like, I think it's definitely really popular right now. And like, yeah, spot and stocking elk is fun. It's different. No, like whatever. I think the problem is is like where do you want to be and what do you want to do? Back to like, I'm not, I'm not going to say don't go on a cool adventure where you fly into Idaho. Like I think it's really cool adventure. Go do cool adventure stuff. Like I'm really into that. That first. And you know, if you get to kill a six point, cool. But just know. Yeah. Know the differences to the same. Like I don't want to, I don't want to say like you have to hunt big bulls. Right. And like there's this. I think people tend to watch what like the, the best killer. Like don't look at what Sean does and think you need to do that too. Like he's a big bull killer and like he will spend more days than you. He'll spend like he's going to have big bull hunting Sean Mellon style is not fun. It's not fun at all. No, there's nothing fun about it. It's a lot of.

It's a lot of listening to old country and the pickup with the spot and scope out the window and like doing it day after day after day after day.

So many days.

Yeah.

So many days. Yeah. It's hunting elk in Idaho and I don't know, unit 39 chasing bugles, way more fun. Absolutely. So like just know what you want and what you want out of it.

Yeah, I, I think, yeah. Finding. Finding what you want to be good at. Focusing and like I tend to just lean towards like be a better elk hunter or like just try to become a better elk hunter. Which is like, okay, what is the thing I want to focus on this year? What's the skills I want to learn? What's the, you know, what kind of interactions it goes back, dude, how many times I beat a dead horse of like focus on the inputs and the outputs will take care of themselves. Which is like, man, I want to be the best out caller. Like, okay, what's that look like? Here's what I do. Here's what I. Here's what I practice or train or whatever. Here's the type of terrain that we hunt like and trying to get away from people is like, it's the name of the game. Back to your point of like a lot of people think that everything is dead. I'm like, dude, there's so much opportunity.

Yeah.

All I see is endless opportunity. I. There's two. I'm trying to cut down on how many tags I get.

Yep.

So don't sit here and tell me all. It's all ruined. To what degree? Because I'm. I love elk hunting and I get to elk hunt multiple states a year.

And there's more. Yeah. Especially like at this stage of the game, there's more cool things that to go do than we have time. Than anyone has time.

Stack on like some cow hunts in there. Like.

Yeah.

Easily. I don't know. Maybe I'm glass half full, but I like, really don't think it's. That's ruined anything. Yeah.

I mean, that's the fun. That's the fun part is if you are glass half full, then you'll find it, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know.

So. Okay. Some final thoughts here. We've just been talking about what this Idaho is good for.

Yes. The whole time.

I know, it's kind of fun. So we just talked about like, what Idaho is good for.

Are you putting it.

Like. I don't know. I don't know if I want to play the game. I've been researching it. I don't know what tag am I gonna go do.

That's where I landed too. Like, even. Even deer. Even though I'm a big beer guy, like, and I like to.

I'll put in for. I'll put in for the draw.

For the controlled.

Controlled.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But for the over the counter stuff, man. Like, if you have other.

I feel like a hypocrite to just go get a tag and not use it.

Yeah.

That's what I really. I honestly, if I'm straight up, like, I just feel like a hypocrite if I like just get this tag, like, I don't need it. Someone else can have it.

Both of the times that I've haunted Idaho, like, I didn't have enough time.

Yeah. I could tell you what's going to happen. I'm going to go buy a tag or whatever. If I draw it, maybe. And then it's like, shoot for the moon. But like, I don't think there's maybe moons.

Yeah.

There's no moons in that category. So, like, I struggle. Maybe I'm off on this. And I've talked to a few Idaho guys Lately. And I'm like, dude, like, what am I missing? Like, but I keep coming back to the same. Like, let the. Let everyone else have those tags. Like, I feel like a hypocrite taking a tag and then not doing it.

I've got one for you. We'll talk about offline.

There's one I'm. I'm gonna tell. Yeah, I'll ask you about too. There's one or two that, like, I'm like. But like, that's the thing is, like, I could get this tag and maybe. But there's a chance I don't draw the tags I want in Montana. Right. And then, like, then now what There's. Yeah, it gets into that. So would I have a general. Do I want a general Montana or this tag? And so, like. But then I just feel like a hypocrite if I do draw it and I don't go.

So there's. There's a state that I'm applying for that I have no idea if I'm. I should be able to draw. But I've always. I've been burned whenever I said I.

Should be able to say it publicly. Yeah.

And here's like, a game plan that I'm gonna do because I have so many people who I help do it and I am guilty of not very often returned and reissued tags in multiple states as backups. And then just whatever you get on the return or reissue, then just go, like, try to figure it out.

Oh, it was grind on that one.

Yeah. If I don't draw the, you know, the one that's like, g. This is. This is hard to.

Dude. That said. Yeah, I could do that too. Cuz like, if, hypothetically, if I didn't. If I didn't pull the Montana tag I want, do I go. Do I go, Jenny, or do I just, like, try to go somewhere new? I'm all. I also love going to new places and hunting crappy hunts. So, like, it's not. I'm not opposed to, like, your point of, like, take whatever issue. Because the other thing is, like, in my position with the Elkon podcast, like, this year I did more blind calling and I learned more about, like, what regular people are going through, like what the 101 hunters are going through. That sounds terrible when I say it out loud. But, like, you know, like, a part of me wants to just go and do some crappy hunts. I do feel like I get spoiled just with my points and what tags I get. So, like, I don't know. Part of me is I Could be on that train, too.

Yeah.

I keep saying I'm gonna do the Utah spike tag. Never done it. I said I was gonna do the Colorado General just to like, that's what we do.

If we don't draw, let's go do a Colorado General over the counter or reissued reissue tang.

Or do we go Idaho reissue tag?

Well, I guess we'll just see what.

Or we'll go Nevada landowner escalate quickly.

Yeah. Yeah, dude. But I will say, like, a lot of times I think people can be confused. Like, we'll talk about what we're doing and it's not what people should be doing if they're in the 101 or 201. Like, I do.

I struggle with that always. Because, like, here, here's what I'm doing and then here's what you should do. Most of I. I think everyone's pretty clear on this. Maybe not. Most of what I say is, like, if you want to kill a six point every year, that's who I'm talking to. I think that's our audience. I say that knowing full well there's a significant portion of our audience that is like, really great elk hunters and is probably just like, wants to know what I'm doing or wants, like, aspires to be. I'm. Dude, I hate. I don't even want to call myself 301. Like, I aspire to be 301. Right. Like, still probably float in the 201 category. Like, so I aspire to be better. I think there's a lot of people who aspire to be better. So I don't. I never want to do a one on one podcast. Like, you know, basic level, but, like, I don't know, they're fun conversations.

Yeah, for sure. And, dude, there's something about it. So, like, I'm going to guide a cow elk hunt next week.

Oh, yeah.

I'm so excited. I'm so excited. We got three cow tags and no pressure.

Dude, I had a blast this year, like, just chasing five points, dude. And we grinded hard for five points. And, like, it was. It was super fun. Like, it took me back to like, my 20s when I was just, like, trying to call in every elk that I could.

Yeah.

I was, like, trying to find elk in hard places. Ironically. Had a really good setup, but that's how it worked out, you know?

Yeah.

To that point, I don't love crappy elk hunts and I like my. Did you guard your Septembers? Like, the older you get, the more you're like, I Didn't I want to guard my Septembers really hard? Like last year when I went on that moose hunt and it sucked. Like that ate me up. I was like, I just wasted prime real estate of my life chasing a swamp donkey that I don't even like, you know, care that much for.

They don't bugle. Yeah.

So I like, even this year, you know, that goat hunt popped up and I, I told my wife. I was like, next year I am. Do not let me. Do not let me book anything in September. Like, I don't care how good it is for whatever, but like, we are not doing anything in September but chasing elk for me. Me and elk.

I like it. I like it. Not to drop a bomb here at the end of the podcast, but for those who don't know, I'm officially moved up to Montana.

You are a Montana resident?

Yeah.

Are you officially resident?

I mean, yeah. In six months. Well, but yeah, but that means I'm going to be around to make sure you're not putting in or book in Alaska Huds.

Yeah. Dude, you got engaged. You're Montana resident. You're a Bozeman resident again. I told you you'd be back.

Yeah, I know.

This was sucks little detour.

You weren't cute enough for me to stick around the first time, so I found one, you know, and then is.

It cuz you had to live on our couch.

Probably shared a room with Wade.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, good.

What are you most excited about as a Montana resident again?

Dude. So this whole fall, like whenever I've had a couple, like a morning or an evening or whatever, I've just been, I've been going quote unquote hunting, but I'm honestly like just driving and learning new units every single time. Like I'll do some, like I'll hike in in the dark and then glass for the morning and then go drive around and learn new units. Dude, I love it. It's so fun because like when you find something that's good, you're like, no way. This is right here.

Yeah. Yeah.

I also realize I got to get some more whitetail dough tags in the future. There's plenty of them running around.

Yeah. A lot of whitetails. You fill a freezer with whitetail doesn't have around here. Yeah.

Which that we'll talk about more. But I got some days. I got some days I'm going to go out with the smoke pool with loader.

Yeah.

Yeah. After this cow hunt, I'm going to come back. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. We should get off podcast and talk about that for a second.

Okay.

Interesting. Yeah. Liv saying I. I have it blocked out. We'll see how things go over the next week. Liv saying I might go on a smoke pole hunt too.

And you've got. Yeah, you got bull tags.

Yeah, dude. I've been saving them.

Nice.

The problem is, like, of course, the year I choose to freaking try to hunt with smoke bowl, no snow.

Yeah, I know. We. We've been getting. I mean, I had to wipe off my truck today. We've been getting some lately.

Yeah. But I don't know.

It's not normal.

Yeah. I may or may not have been in the woods the last week in the season to check, mainly as a scout. D. Not enough snow yet to push anything. Like, I went to a spot that was. Let's call it mid mountain to check tracks, and there wasn't enough snow to check tracks. Mid mountain.

Oh, man.

Last I was like, after that was on Sunday. So, like, after that snowstorm.

Oh, man.

I did find some elk, but not what I'm looking for. I think elk are very high.

I think they're very high. It could be a dang hard mazel hunt. But if you. If you whacked one, it'd be sweet.

I know.

I'll bring the sled. Can we saucer it down? Let's do that.

All right. We're getting derailed. That's. That's the pod, probably.

Yeah. So everyone should put in Frido except me.

And me.

All right, Later.

All righty, guys. Thanks for tuning into the show. If you like this episode, do us a huge favor and share it with one of your hunting buddies. Also, if you want a free hunt planner, be sure to go check the link in the show notes. It's 100% free. You can download our hunt planning tool, which is a great resource for kind of keeping track of all of your hunts, your hunt plans, your points, all those things. Pretty great resource. Go check it out links in the show notes. Or you can check our website, www.elkhunt201.com.