How an X Games Legend Approaches Elk Hunting Like a Competitor

You know, in both of my disciplines, right, snowmobiling and hunting, it's. You can never be perfect or you can never be the best. You know, the mountain couldn't always win in either scenario. And it's just about seat time and learning and. And getting it. So. Yeah, I just love a lot of your philosophies of, you know, at bats and, like, just. Just everything. Right? And so, yeah, this. This will be really fun to a ton of my clientele who are hunters and can relate, and it's. Yeah, this will be fun.

This is the Elk Hunt podcast, Home to everything, elk hunting. I'm your host, Cody rich. From fellow DIYers to elk hunting legends, we have elk hunting stories, tips, tactics, and more to get you pumped for elk season. Join us every week for great elk hunting content.

All right, Chris, I'm so stoked to have you on, man. We're kind of chatting before the podcast, but I. Man, I used to. Well, I still look up to you. I don't say used to look up to you, but, man, I grew up. I remember when the first schooled video came out, and my buddy and I were like, have you seen this guy? And, like, yeah, we were. I mean, I was very big into snowmobiling at the time. And so, you know, your. Your videos all schooled and. And was old school. No, it was sled next. And then. Where's two schooled videos?

Yeah, yeah, there was a. There's quite a few. Like, school, 1, 2, 3, 4.

Old school.

Yeah, all of it.

Yeah, all of those was like, man, we just, like, looked up to you. So when we talked about this, I remember a couple years ago, and I think you were on Barney's podcast or something, I was like, oh, I didn't know that guy hunted elk too. Like, man, this guy is so cool. So I guess to start it off with, I mean, you. I mean, a lot of people know you as X game, snowmobile guy, backcountry snowmobiler, all these things. I'm sure some people know that you're a big elk hunter, too. Or it's like, I don't feel like a lot of people know that. Is that. I don't know, is that a new thing or how long has that been?

Well, I'll be honest, a little bit by design. Just so I am so blessed to be in the position I am from the snowmobile side of things. Right? Like, I mean, God put me on this planet to ride a snowmobile 100%. And I knew that at a very young Age and to turn a passion into a job is, again, I pinch myself every day that I get paid to do what I do. Don't get me wrong. But I think that's probably why I love elk hunting so much. Is that a. I don't have to do it as a job. I love just going to get lost out in the mountains by myself. You're 100% accountable on so many different things. And so I think I've kept that. Yeah, I love, you know, sharing trials and tribulations of elk hunting and posting success and all that stuff, but, you know, this is in this stage of my life, and it always changes. And you've probably had these certain scenarios, especially, like, hey, if you could only hunt deer or elk for the rest of your life, what would it be? And, you know, 10 years ago, the answer was probably different. And, you know, for me right now, if you would have asked me that 10 years ago, snowmobiling or elk hunting? Oh, dude, I'm a snowmobiler for life. But, you know, just as just life changes and agendas change, that transition is. It's pretty close, man. It'd be. It'd be a coin flip. And probably, to be honest, I'd go on. On the hunting side of things.

And I think it's like, I think it's tough. And I feel this in a lot of ways. You know, I never want to burn out. And I. I've talked about this on podcasts where, like, I didn't make hunting my career because I. I could see how guys would get burnt out, and I could totally see it. Like, you just do something for long enough and you kind of, you know, you almost seek that being new, being a noob again, right? Like, starting over. And the cool thing about archery, elk hunting is, like, you. It's almost like you always suck at it, right? So it's so difficult and, like, you just can't master it. Like, I know you say you really haven't mastered snowmobiling, but I would. I think there's probably a lot of people that would argue the other way, but I. I would imagine, like, you know, hunting is one of those things that just so difficult, so many variables. It's virtually impossible to. To master because even if you do things perfectly, it's a wild animal and things go not as planned more often than they do.

I think that's a really good point. And when I snowmobile at where I'm at, from a level, standpoint, experience standpoint, it does take a tremendous situation or circumstance to get me like out of my comfort zone or like, oh my God, what is going to happen? Because I've put myself over the years, I've continue to push and you know, I always talk about be comfortable being uncomfortable and you can talk about that being snowmobiling or dirt biking or hunting and the more time that you are uncomfortable, that's how you keep progressing your craft. And so I've been snowmobiling for 40 years, so since the age of six. And so I'm pretty decent at it and I've spent a lot of time at it. So yes, I, I agree. And, and this is what I think. I, that's why I love elk hunting so much is. Yeah, I've, I mean I've been hunting for 25 plus years now. I started, I started bow hunting. We can talk about the whole story but you know, I was the totally like 12 year old kid going up with my dad and the uncles and, and doing the rifle hunting thing. And, and to be honest, I absolutely hated it. It was, they would always go like second or third rifle and it was cold and my dad just literally wanted to walk up a little ways, sit in a meadow and go to sleep. You know, like he just, he was up there to relax and I'm just freezing my butt off and I think this is terrible. So my first definitions of hunting wasn't for me, it, it wasn't something that I wanted to do. And then I got introduced to bow hunting and read Cam's book like Life of a Bow Hunter. And I mean talk about changing from zero to a hundred. Like, okay, this sounds pretty cool.

This is way cool.

Yeah. Yep.

Did one of the, you were talking about seasons of life and like, you know, you have to go to a level. And I remember this even when I was snowmobiling, you know, I, I snow started snowballing. I was like 16 and I used to race like the work series on ATVs and I got into, I snowmobiled growing up but like got really serious about it more as a cross training to to for work series when I was like doing that heavily backstory I broke my neck, was supposed to be paralyzed. I recovered. I still do a lot of cool things. But like I remember reading Stealing Fire, which is a really interesting book and for most of my life my identity was doing crazy things or like being the fastest or doing big jumps, all of those things. And like I think a lot of people go through this where like, you know, that becomes your identity and it's who you are. And I. I really struggled with that, like, when I broke my neck. And I remember going through this, like, phase where I didn't think I was gonna walk again. And so, like, you have to, like, find this new identity. Long story short, it was like, I. Even after that, I got into snowmobiles again, and. Cause it was actually difficult for me to do the dirt stuff. Like, my brain was just so into racing that it was hard to, like, do things for fun that weren't racing. It was like, you. You trained and you race. That's like. And a lot of guys will talk about this, but for me, it was like, later 20s, early 30s, was like, man, the risks got so high to get the high, right? So, like, to get that actual high, you're like, man, the consequences are just getting so big. And, like, you, like, on a sled, like, you know, sleds got so much faster and so much bigger, and it was like, you know, everything just got exponentially bigger. The risk got exponentially bigger. And that was, you know, for me, like, I've hunted my entire life, but it was like, man, I still. The risks don't get higher in hunt. Maybe they do in a. In different ways. Very different ways. But, like, I think it was this piece for me that, like, I sucked my identity back into that more because it was like, it didn't have the big risk, but it still had the big highs in a lot of ways, right? And it was like, that was kind of like. It was like, challenge. It was this thing you could seek forever and never master. And so for me, that was a

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That's a good way to put it. You know, I've done pretty much every discipline known to man on a snowmobile. You know, doing backflips at X games and winning gold medals to what my true passion is of, of backcountry riding. And, and you know, it, it was crazy just yesterday. So we finally, finally got snow here in Colorado where I can actually go to work. We own a guiding business and it's been very rough this season. Haven't even been, been able to guide one group. Normally we start in January and so we, our clients actually show up today. So I'm, I'm excited about that. But yesterday I went on this kind of solo mission way, way back into one of my like very, very favorite zones. But it's the same zone that I chased this monster three by four muley. You know, yesterday I was just riding like I literally had no one in a 20 mile radius of me. I'm on this mountain by myself with my snowmobile, like Looking at the cliff where the, the buck was bedded that I blew. And you know, like, it's, it's so incredible, you know, and, and so the, on the backcountry side, what a snowmobile can do and where it can take you to your point with minimal risk, you know, like, I, I, I've, when you think about backcountry riding versus doing backflips at X Games, big difference in risk and no different than what you're talking about on the racing side to, hey, what's this snowmobile thing all about? And, and you know, it's, it's so awesome. You know, I'll do this crazy line on 35 degree north facing slope and I'm parked on edge and I'm like, man, I cannot believe I got here. And there will be an elk grub right there, right? And I'm just like this, I was born to be here, you know, I mean, it's just, and that's why I love elk so much and, and chasing deer and just, just being in the mountains really.

So one of the things that I wrote down that I really want to pick your brain on is you have mastered a craft. And I love talking to professional athletes of all kinds because it's like they have become incredibly good at, at their craft. And then when they get into archery hunting, they have a very systematic way or a different approach. Um, you know, I've talked about, you know, race pace. Like once you learn what race pace is, you know how to get there in different things, right? And so you're like, oh, you run fast. I would love to hear your progression. Like years one through five, like, you get. So you read Cam's book, you're like, I'm in. So like, how hardcore. How, how deep in the rabbit hole did you go? What was your first couple years like?

Yeah, this is gonna be fun. So this was, this was the first ever story of me. Bow hunting is, is great. I, this is before Cam's book. I'm hanging out in this podunk cowboy town that I used to live in, which, miss it. And just hanging out with a guy who, I mean, this dude has elk hoof prints tattooed on his arm, right? Like, he's in, he's the guy. Okay. And he's like, he's like, you, you hunt? I'm like, I used to with my dad, but it just, just wasn't for me. He's like, you got to go bow hunting. I'm like, okay. He's like, I'm. Yeah, that sounds cool. He's like, here, I got a, I got a spare bow. And you know, he, so he gets me a bow, I end up, I mean this is like right before season. You could buy over the counter and all this stuff. And so like I hit a target a couple times. I'm like, cool, I'm in, you know, and, and then he hands me the primos tube with the blue reed and he's like, you just gotta blow on this thing. And you just. And I mean I'll, I'll never forget the. Literally the very first day going bow hunting. I'm like, got the what? My school backpack, probably wearing crap gear, you know, all this stuff. And I'm carrying the bow and, and got my, my bugle. And I blow through this thing, make some sort of noise that sounds like something and I get a, I get an answer back, you know, and, and I, I, I just start running to the bolt. Running, bugling. He would, he would run bugle. So he's, it's so hilarious that I think about this to this day. Like I should employ this tactic more. Really. What all I did is I. He kept pushing his cows. Pushing his cows. But I'm young, dumb, I'm running through the woods, right? So he thinks I am able. Coming after his harem. He pushes his cows, he turns around, he comes back, comes to me 25 yards. I miss, right? I shoot, I miss. But. And he just looks at me, he's like, you got a ways to go. And, but I mean, talk about sinking the hook right there. I was like, okay, this, this is. I'm in. So that was, that was kind of like step one was okay, this is the definition of hunting that I want to partake in, right? Right. 100% it. So I actually. And it was the same thing, you know, three or four years of hunting and just getting your butt absolutely handed to you. Never even getting a shot and trying to figure all of this out. And, and then I actually started to, to have some, you know, I would shoot anything, a four or five point ball. My first bull was actually a monster. So that doesn't count. And that's how it happens, right? You get, you shoot a big one and then, and that was just luck. But kind of talking about the steps and I'm going to skip quite a bit in here. But I knew right away that there was a lot of factors to make to try to have a chance at being successful. You had to have proper gear. You had to know how to shoot a dang bo. You needed to be in shape. And so I was one of the very, like, one of the very first to sign up for Mountain Tough. I, I remember, like, messaging, you know, Dustin on Facebook of, you know, something like, hey, I'm thinking about doing this. I kind of do this in my world. And, you know, it was, it was kind of from the ground, ground level there and which to have some structure was, Was really awesome. And then, you know, I'll never forget my, My wife had some, some friends over and at the house, and I was out on a run and, you know, I come back and she's like, yeah, he does this to go hunting now. You know, it's like, it was so, it was so just. That's not what you did.

Right.

And you know, Cam kind of brought that straight, straight up front and Yeah, I, I just, it, it was, it was cool to like, have this whole process or, and, or checklist, like what we're talking about for this one magical month of September.

What was like, so, you know, first, first encounter, I guess, is like something that guys go years trying to get, you know, and it's like that probably, if I'm reading the cards right, it's like you do that thing like, oh, this is great, and then you go do it a hundred more times and it doesn't work. And so you're like, okay, now I gotta, like, figure out a different way to do that. Yeah. How was it, you know, starting from scratch, learning elk behavior? Did you feel like you picked that up pretty quickly?

So here's what. And still to this day, I am good at finding elk. I'm really good at finding elk. And, and that comes from being in the mountains for my entire life.

Right?

Yeah. And, and understanding and knowing how to read terrain and, and when you start to figure out where you're finding elk and, and more importantly, the why that, that I enjoyed. And, and I, you know, I always tell my clients, guiding, if you see me looking at a map, we're screwed. Right? Like, I, I, I, I love having that sense of direction, being the leader, you know, figuring out how to read that train and an elk. And it's, it's interesting on a snow bill, you know, my goal is to go up the steepest, gnarliest spot on a mountain, however, that you can't just go straight up. You have all of these obstacles in the way. You have, you know, trees and rocks and shelves and benches. And an elk does the exact same thing. An elk is trying to get from point A to B with the path of least resistance. And it still can be 2,500 vertical feet, but it's amazing how they can do it with little or no effort. And so no different on a snowmobile side of things, you're kind of. You're taking the steepness out of the hill when you can. You're carrying momentum. Like, all. All those things really were relatable. So finding elk, I. I did okay with that. Like, kind of right away, that whole getting close and figuring out how to kill him with a bow, that's. That's where it gets tough. And. And I think that's where the. So much enjoyment has come in this whole journey is. Is the. The more you can expose yourself and. And get into those situations where you're in the elk, you're. You're going to learn. And it's. I mean, three. I. I gave up three of my hunting seasons to go guide hunting just for that fact, because I wanted to go hunt the place because it gave me. There was just a lot of elk. You know, it. So I hunted. A good buddy of mine is the manager at Bear Mountain Outfitters here in Colorado, and I'm like, dude, I'd love to guide for you. They just have a lot of elk. And, you know, it's funny, that whole private versus public. If you kill a bull on private, you might as well just be a. It doesn't even count. It's like, dude, it's so far from the truth, right? It's. And all it did, the reason I did it is because in your words, it gave me more at bats, right? It allowed me to make more mistakes and yet still get experience. Whereas in previous years, I mean, you're like that big public grind. And I get it, you're hoping for one opportunity, one solid opportunity in a season. And I could do that, have that in a day to screw it up and figure it out.

It's like having one good powder day and like a year and trying to learn how to snowmobile. Like, you're not anything.

You're not.

And every. Every other day is like a spring ride. You, like, you're just not gonna learn how to ride a snowmobile. I huge believer of this, and very, very few people I've ever talked to actually do what you did, which is like, I'm gonna give up my hunt to go guide. I even say this with, you know, say your buddy draws a good tag. You're gonna learn more going with your buddy on a great tag than you are going to a crappy Colorado tag, where it's like, you're gonna see two elk. Like, you're just not. It's so hard to learn and so many guys hunt one week. Like, and I get it, life is hard, busy, all the things, right? And it's just so difficult to become good at this. When you hunt one week a year, like, exponentially harder. If you can hunt 30 days, you're, it's not like three years worth of hunting. It's multiple years worth of hunting. Because it's the cycles, right? Like, you're like, oh, I learned this, I learned this, I learned this. Seems like if you're doing it once a year, very tough to learn. But to your point, man, you'll guide like you're getting those at bats. I huge believer. Like, if you can go guide some private and you're going to be in elk every single day, you're going to learn so much because so much of it is like, maybe it's easier. I don't know. Like, I think there's variations to private too. Like, I was, I had a private this year. Hardest one I've ever been on.

Yeah.

So, yeah, so, like, it doesn't, I don't think it changes a whole lot. There's variations. So I, I do think if you can like, go guide good country, man, getting those at bats is huge. I, I, yeah, I imagine it added a lot of years of experience to your, to your roster.

It did. And, and again, I, I think, you know, there's been a ton of. I saw, I saw this stat. Why do 10 of the hunters kill 90 of the elk?

Right?

Well, to be a tener, there's a crap ton of sacrifice that you have to make from the mental side of things, the physical side of things, the time side of things. And you know, I, I, and as I've continued, you know, growing my business, that's been hard as well, is to designate the amount of time needed. And then when the kids were younger, it was really tough there. My kids are at a super fun age right now where, I mean, my daughter loves, like, she's not a rifle hunter, she's a bow hunter through and through. She's like her dad. So it's cool to be able to still put that time in because, you know, the families involved as well. So, so that's really neat. But yeah, so I guess again, talking about our 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 step. So one was getting introduced, you know, to like, literally, okay, this backpacking thing is, this is real, man. Like, you know, so getting, getting out there. And, and as you know, Cody, it has Changed so much from 20 years ago, archery hunting, to. To now. I mean, you could go out and never see a soul. You can still do that now. It's still possible, but it's. It's tougher, right? Because there's more guys wanting to do it, which I applaud, and I think it's great. But I think the other big one. And you know, you had Sean on not too long ago, and he's really good at this. Of talking about scouting. I scout in the winter. I scout in the summer. I scout in spring. I. I scout every day that I can. I got a spotting scope outside my window that I'm looking at every single day. And, you know, those. To think about, those ELK don't take 11 months off. They're still doing what they do, which is pretty cool. And I've. I actually. I equally enjoy scouting in those summer months and finding those bulls and getting them on the camera, on the phone. I. That is as about. It's super fun. I. I just. I love the physical aspect of it. I'm learning the mountain better. I'm figuring out where they are, what they're doing, and just learning. Just learning, right?

Yes. One of the things that. When you were talking about snowmobiling, I think when you snowmobile, you get really good at understanding the mountain from a different perspective because you understand it much bigger. And I think one of the biggest mistakes guys make is they. They hunt. They're too micro, right? They're hunting this drainage. Right. They're hunting like, oh, I'm gonna go in, I don't know, beehive basin, and they're gonna hunt just beehive basin. Where, when you snowmobile, you're covering such massive chunks of the mountain. I mean, you're 30, 40, 50 miles, 100 miles in a day. Like, you're. You kind of. And in your head, it. It's very different. I think when you start snowmobiling, it's hard. You know, it's easy to get lost. But, you know, you. You guide the mountain. You spend every day there. It's like, you. You know, which basin leads to the next basin and which next basin not. I would. I would think that not a lot of people can understand the mountain that way. Most guys, you know, they have a micro perspective, which is like, I go to this trailhead, it equals this base. I go to this trail. And so one of the things I think. Great that we call it the 10 percenters can do is they hunt the entire mountain. They're not like, I'm hunting this drainage. And I, I, I, I'm. This is putting words kind of in your process, but, like, I'm guessing that you probably do that when you're hunting too, because you just, you're Talking about scouting 11 months out of the year. It's like when you're riding dirt bikes or you're riding snowmobiles, whatever it is, it's like you see the mountain in a different way than I think most elk hunters. And I think that's what most elk hunters need to do or understand, which is like, I get so many guys like, hey, check, you know, check out my hunt plans for Colorado. And it's like, that's a day hunt, like what you just talked about.

That's not a week.

Yeah, that's not a week. That's a day. And, like, if there's, there's no out there, like, which is a big possibility, like, what's next? Like, that's, that's not a, B and C. That's just a. Right? And I think when you, when you're a great elk hunter, you understand that you're, you kind of have bigger, broader plans. Do you feel like you're pretty good at that?

Yeah, I, and I think that does come a lot from just, it's not being afraid to not have boundaries. I mean, like, oh, my gosh, if I go over there, I'm too far from the truck. I could care less. I mean, I'm, that's what, that's what I, that's what I train for. I, I mean, I am, I'm just willing to, to go all in on that. And, and the, the mountain. The mountain can be big or small, and I love trying to make the mountain feel small when, when I'm hunting, because that's exactly what I do when I'm snowmobiling. I mean, to your point, like, yesterday, I mean, I literally rode 85 miles of just, like, going to check out zone to zone and connecting all these dots and, you know, thinking about, like, man, I didn't want to leave yesterday. It was that kind of day, you know, I was literally out there by myself on the mountain in just God's country and, and beautiful day, beautiful snow, and, and it, it's funny how as a kid, all I cared about was the snowmobile part of it. And now as an adult, I mean, when you are sitting at the top of something, you have such a greater perspective of everything surrounding you. You know, it wasn't how cool my, my sled ran. It was like, I cannot Believe I'm sitting right here and, you know, the deer was down there, and I'm gonna get clients in here and we're gonna have a ball. So it's, It's. It's fun. But, you know, again, making that mountain seem small. But you send someone who doesn't know, like, it takes a ton of time. I mean, you know, I, I study on it. I, like, I. I spend a lot of time in the woods. I'm on my dirt bike a lot in the summer and just kind of sorting and figuring all of that out as well.

So in your opinion and I. There's mixed opinions on this. There's no right answer. Do you feel like it's better to hunt one mountain, know it like the back of your hand or bounce around?

Well, I think there's advantages to both. I think if you know the mountain well, you can find elk when there aren't elk. And I think that that can happen. And what was pretty crazy this past season is I had scouted a ton of places and I had this plan and that plan, didn't I. I totally bypassed the entire plan and hunted an area that I had only been up a couple times because I found the bull that I wanted to hunt, and it was the one herd in there. And when they bumped, I figured out, and trust me, I bumped them. But the way the, The. The mountain was, they could only go a couple different spots, but they always wanted to come back. And it was pretty amazing to. I ended up spending the majority of my season hunting this essentially one mountain. It wasn't one drainage, it was three. And they were giant. But it was, you know, I'd go up the center, and if they're not in the center, they're either left or right of me. And it was so asking that question this last year, it really helped to know one mountain. But if there's no elk in there and you. Your pot committed, you gotta just. You gotta move. And. And I think that's what I. I've learned over the years too. I used to just be so dumb and like go, you know, 12 and 15 mile days and.

Which is.

Can be effective too. I'd get into elk and I could kill elk. But now I just, I. I get to a vantage point. I get to a vantage point and I just. Glass. And our mountains are big here. And so, you know, if they are across the drainage, that's a big commitment. And you might. And a lot of people might just say that's too far for me. And for me, I can't get my stuff packed up soon enough. I'm running down and I'm going to be over there. And however long it takes.

Do you feel like. I mean, so many, so many yeses. In my mind, you're like 100. And I. I feel like that I've been in that scenario where it's like you. When you know the mountain and I. I use air quotes there because it's like, it could be a big area and you kind of know where to look. You know, it's. Yeah, they're. They're going to be here. They got to be here. They got to be here. Then you start checking these things off like they are somewhere. You know, it's process of elimination. But when you have those places where you can figure that out or know where they're going to go, to me, that gets really fun. I'm at a point in life where it's like, I love chasing the same bull over and over where I used to just run around the mountain. If I screwed it up, it was like, I'll go find another herd, right? And I was like, now I'm. I'm more in the chess match game where it's like, I don't want to play checkers and just keep blowing through as much country as I can. Some of that is because it's changed and there's a lot more hunters. And like, you know, when I started this, you know, it was you in the mountain, maybe you saw another guy, but that was about it. Nowadays, it's like, I love finding that pocket and that one herd. And you're like, okay, what are you gonna do today? Like, how am I gonna figure it out? Right? And I don't know. Everyone has their own version of elk hunting and, like, to each their own. But when you talk about that, like, that's knowing the mountain, you know, they're gonna be here, here, here, and then spending your time on that and not rushing it. Like, I think as I get older, it's like patience plays as much as aggression, right? And I. I think you need the aggression early. Like, you gotta learn those lessons if you wanna figure out how to be around elk or how to move in the red zone, you gotta be around them and you can't. There's no other kind of. There's no other way to learn that without screwing it up.

Yeah.

With that said like that, you know, go ahead.

Oh, I was gonna. I was gonna say. So. I 100 agree. My. My style of hunting has changed over the years and. And most recently, 20, 23. I used all my Colorado points and drew a fun unit and I found the bowl. Hold on. My wife glassing for me found double another could, we could have a 18 hour long podcast, but I'll give you just the, the tip of that story. I'm glassing one Ridge, she's over here glassing another for me. And, and she's like, I think I found one. And I'm like, okay, cool. Is he good? She's like, yeah, he's pretty good. I'm like, okay. And I'm just sitting here glassing. She's like, you should come look at this one. And I will.

I'll.

I'm going to text you the, the very first video I got of them. I, I look in the spotter. Seriously, just like, I got sweaty armpits. I mean, it was one of those feelings just like I couldn't even breathe. I'm like, you could have told me. She's like, I was trying. And so that was, that was in 2023. And so I saw that bowl in July and that was my target bowl for the entire season. And that was, it was pretty cool that, that I'm gonna, I'm gonna go back up one quick second. So in 23, I, I draw this tag. And this is when we talk about levels. This is when I knew I, you know, I have nine years worth of points. I'm putting them all in this. I am, I am 100% dedicating everything. And so I'm not a big drinker, but, you know, I'd have one or two with the clients at day three and, and, you know, call it a night. I quit drinking because I just didn't want that to be an excuse of not getting up to go do my mountain tough workout that I wanted to do every single day to be ready. And then, you know, scouting from as soon as I could get up there in June to opening day, I mean, I, I went all, all in. And, and what was so rewarding about all of it was how well this season went from being prepared both mentally and physically. It was, it was such a cool feeling. A sense of accomplishment without even killing a bull was just to know how much effort you're putting into it and getting that reward back from a feeling. So very long story, and I'll cut to the end of it. September 26th, I got that bull in bow range, 46 yards, quartered away. Didn't even know I was there. And I shot under him. Oh, I, I, it was, it was, I mean, I Relive it in my mind every six to seven minutes to. To remind myself that you can do 99 of it.

Right?

And you still. That's what's so awesome about bow hunting, right? Is. And another one. You see where they are, you know where they're going, and you still can't kill them. Like, how does that even make sense?

Right?

Right.

It's like that. You see that meme online where the chick's like, if I was an elk hunter, I would just walk up and shoot it. You're like, yeah, me too.

Me too. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, dude. Heartbreak was it.

I. It was. It was a heartbreak, but all it did was it made me want to be better. And I knew that. So what I learned most from that was I need to. I was so. I put so much pressure on myself to kill that bowl that in the moment I freaked out, I. I mean, I used, like, I had a, you know, a seven pin side or five inside, whatever the heck I was shooting back then, and I split the wrong pins and I. And I mean, I literally just shot under him and. And, you know, that's me not being confident in my equipment. That's me not being ready for that. That situation, which I live for. That moment in snowmobiling, I live for that pressure moment, and I handle it well, and I wasn't handling it well. And I've missed several big goals over the years, and we all have. And so that was a big goal that I. That I wanted to work on in 2024, was I. And it wasn't the equipment's fault. Right? And it's easy to blame it on that. But I updated my equipment. I got something that I wanted to be just more competent in. And then I. And this is what pissed me off so much about it, is that I focused so much on my. My physical side of things, like being in shape, being able to chase these elk, of knowing where the elk are going, where. Like, I. I had all of that dialed, all my equipment, everything dialed. But I didn't shoot a ton like I shot. But I didn't shoot a ton. And I'm. And I screwed up the most important part, the last part, you know, and so pretty much. So that was the big lesson I. I took from that was, hey, if you're gonna do this, you just need to be automatic in those pressure situations, just like you are in. In, you know, other disciplines that you. That you like to compete in. So, yeah, that was. That was a big turning point for me. And I try to shoot My bow every day, Every single day.

How is it, how does being at full draw on a target bowl different from X Games going for gold? Like how is in from the mental side, I feel like I'm not picking, not picking on you. But I'm like, man, it seems like after X Games, you know, pulling back on a, even a 400 inch pole should be like automatic for you. Like how is it different?

I think, and this goes to a little bit of our, the start of our conversation at X Games. I showed up there knowing that I was going to win. Like I, I, from a mental standpoint, I had just learned the backflip two weeks prior to X Games. You could not. I, I was so confident in, in just my abilities I had done, I had accomplished something that prior to that I said there's no way I can do this. I can't go back flip a snowmobile. I tried years prior and it just, it never worked out. And you know, I got lucky not getting big time hurt. And then you know, X Games calls and says, hey, by the way, first year of freestyle, are you in? I'm like, this is all I've been working towards. I have to go do this. And so you know, that was that from a mental standpoint, I was, it's amazing what the mind can, can accomplish and what it can do. I showed up there and I was going to win and I, I worked hard to get to that point. And I think what is different for me, and that's what I, and I think that's why I enjoy this whole process is this was the first year on a big bull like my target bull. I pulled back, I knew exactly what I needed to do. Like I had no shakes, no nervousness, no nothing. No, like I felt like I did it X Games. So to your point, it's taken me and there's been elk where things happen so quick that I was like, I can't believe that just happened. And you can have that feeling, right? But a lot of the times and, and you've experienced this and, and other bow hunters have the whole blackout, right? Like I have no idea what pin I used. I don't remember anything. Like nothing. And what I loved so much about this year and maybe it was because the preparation and, and all of that, but everything was systematical. It was okay, step one is this, Step two is this Step three here. Okay. Hey, your pin's a little low. Don't shoot yet. You're shooting down like this. Get your anchor point right. Like I'm like It, it was all happening like I've done a million times when we're practicing and, and it, it went the way it should have. So it's only taken 24 years to get to that point, and who knows if that happens next year, but I'm hoping from a preparement standpoint that, that that is the new standard. Moving on.

When did, when did you kind of cross the chasm from going into season, hunting season, and thinking, I hope I kill an elk this year to I am deadly and I'm gonna kill an elk this year?

Yeah, it's. Man, you have, you have good questions. That's why I love your podcast. Because I was just thinking, so my very first bull I killed, I didn't have that feel like it was, it was lucky, right? I mean, this was. Back then, I had a 20, 30 and 40 yard pin. He's at 56. I'm just like, I hold my bottom pin at the back, top of his back, like eyes closed and just Hail Mary. Right? Holy crap.

That worked.

That worked. But even, even the next year, it wasn't that it didn't instill this feeling of, oh, I'm an elk killer now and this is going to be so easy.

Took.

It took a long time, you know, another three or four or five years of starting to have success. And then I think this is what's interesting that happened. So after three or four years in a row of, of killing an elk, then it started to get, you get, and I'm younger, so you get a little cocky and, and then you go into situations and you. I would have done them way different and I wouldn't have blown that one out. And so I, I think as I, as I kept getting more experience, I think that that is starting to bridge that gap of I hope I get one too. I am going to get one. But even, I'll even talk about this season. Okay. It was, I'm public land in some insanely tough country, chasing one bull after hunting him for 20 plus days. You start to think like, I don't know if this is gonna happen.

Right?

So you don't go into the season with that mindset. Of course, I, I came in more prepared than I ever have. And so I did feel like this is a good chance to kill a big bull. And like most people, I, in the early days, I would shoot anything because I just wanted the experience. And now I, I love setting my sights on, on a big, mature bull. I wouldn't go as far as to say I'm like trying to Kill the elite giant, the one bull in the entire unit. There's some people that take it to that effect. But you know, I, I want to kill the herd bowl for sure. I, I respect the elk that much and I've put my time in to know that I have the ability to do that. And the harder you make the challenge, when you succeed or fail, to be honest, the better you're going to get.

100%. I'd be curious, you know, as you go into say 20, 26, obviously preparedness, you know, you've kind of, you've had the cycle, right? You've had the, the early success. You've had like, I don't know what I'm doing. I do know what I'm doing. I've failed after I thought I knew what I was doing. Like, you go through these cycles and you know, it's funny because you were talking about it and I would say like my deadliest was probably late 20, early 30s where I was killing elk every single year and I thought I was king of the mountain. And then when I started to try to level up and kill like only 350 bulls or whatever it was, it was like I got humbled so many times that you, you start to like lose that confidence. You're like, oh, maybe I don't know how to do it anymore.

So with you saying that as you were saying that, I'm literally like thinking back in my head, okay, that's exactly what. So instead of just killing any five point raghorn or small six, like, because that is again, we were, that's when you think you're doing good, which, which you are, right? You're, you're, you're killing something with a bow, which is extremely tough. But I agree, when you step into that, that next level of a bull, it is 100% different.

But you have to, you know, you have to maintain that confidence. And you know, one of the things I've learned is that I can't treat big bulls any different than I would, I don't know, you know, a regular herd bull. And it's not to belittle herd bulls at all. It's just generally speaking, most, at least I tell myself big bulls aren't any different. They're just genetically different or genetically bigger. Maybe they had peculiar, you know, things about them, the way they act, but it's not like they're smarter by a lot of definitions. Because if I go into it thinking that I'll, I'll second guess myself into screwing it up. And so Even I feel this way after 30, 20, whatever, 20 some years where it's like you have ebbs and flows of confidence. But I still, you know, to your point, I want to go into 2026. The one thing I always want to go in is like feeling deadly confident in my bow, my shooting ability, all of those things. Because everything else trickles from that. Like, I know my fitness. Like, I know I can get around the mountain as well as anyone. Of course I'm going to train for that. I know my equipment. I'm going to have confidence. So it's like the one thing I'll tell people is like control the controllables because there's so much that I can't control. Like if I can control my fitness, my shooting, you know, my E scouting, like all of these things, even down to like trying to control vehicle problems. Like, you know, like that's a real thing for a lot of people. Man, this broke down. It's whatever. Trying to control all of those things is like I'm putting myself. That's, that's how I get to confidence. That's how I get to like feeling deadly. And somewhat of it's just like hyping yourself up, which I think is pretty underrated. And I think a lot of like you need to talk about sports psychology or whatever. It's like you have to go in convince, like, even if you don't believe it, convince yourself that you're like you're going to kill something this year. Like this is gonna be the year. Because if the alternative is to have doubt and like doubt will seep in and get ahold of you and take, take over your season faster than you could realize it.

Yeah. Another point as you were discussing that, that I think was one of my downfalls and this is human in general, is that we avoid things that are either hard or that we're not good at. And so I think back at the those big 320 plus class bulls that I've missed over the years and there's been several that should have been the, the indicator that priority number one should be learn to shoot your bow the way you need to shoot your bow. But bow shooting a bow can be hard, can be really hard. And so I, I will say 100 in 2023. I put shooting on the back burner and the priority was I need to be in shape and I need to know where these elk are and I'll. I should be able to make a shot and it goes the, it should be the other way and, and I, I've, I've learned that. But I think you, so you can go that the, the exact opposite of, let's just say a person, that's all he does is shoot and he's, he's an insane good shooter. But from a health standpoint, he's not ready to go chase elk. From a scouting standpoint, he's gonna just go figure it out and hope he can find elk. Well, you can be the best shooter, but if you don't know how to get into elk, you're gon killing elk as well, right?

Yeah, it still takes elk. What are you focused on for 20, 26?

I'd say. I, I last year was, was so great in, in what I was able to learn. I spent a lot of days on the mountain and it's, it's the only, it's the only way to learn. And so I think for me, for, for 26, I, I feel I've never shot my bow this much and I've never felt as much confidence in shooting. So I really like that this early normally I'm so busy with guiding snowmobiles and well, heck, with me not guiding, I've been just like hanging out at the shop trying to figure out what to do kind of. And so I, I've been shooting my bow a lot and well, heck, it's already dang near March and pretty soon it's going to be get ready to, you know, then you would normally transition into okay, I gotta remember how to shoot my bow again. And so not taking that big time off of shooting. I feel really confident there. I, it's interesting. I didn't call to that bull in 20 days. I, the, the only call I gave him was the cow call after I shot to stop him. That was the only call.

Were you not confident in your calling?

There is some of that and it's actually so guiding. I called a lot, right. So I feel 80% on my calling ability. But what I have struggled with is in this big country you do everything you can to get into that position of trying to, to, to kill this bull and not knowing what to say or saying it the wrong way. And then that, that herd, like I, I didn't even have a chance, right, like where I feel if I can sneak in and I can be that silent assassin, the only thing that's going to screw up is, is me or the wind. Whereas if I blow the wrong call or if I bugle too aggressively or if I cow call and, and, or, or you know, all those scenarios and, and I have called bulls in and I've killed them that way. But with these bigger herd bulls, I just, I have struggled with the calling standpoint and I just, I have decided not. Well at the time, I don't do it. But then you always, you always play devil's advocate of like when they, you bump them and you're like, man, dude, I was in, I was in, I was in the bedroom. All I needed to do. If I just would have, you know, an aggressive bugle to, to get him to come, I, I mean there's so many scenarios that if I would have or shoulda and all of that. So in 26, I guess from a calling standpoint, I would like to be better or feel more confident in knowing when, but I still think it. I. You'll run into the same scenario. You can still make an ill advised call at the wrong time. It. So how many, how many days.

How many days were you on that ball?

It was right at about 20.

So you were. How many days did you break? Say 200.

So say that question again.

How many days did you break 200 yards? Like, oh, 200 yards.

Sorry, sorry. I would say 15 of them.

Oh, how many shot opportunities?

Two.

Not.

I mean this is, I catch, you know, hindsight's 20, 20. I don't know the answer.

And it's three.

Three, three days.

Yeah.

So about every seven days. I, I mean, I don't know. Like I, I still struggle with this. You know, Sean, I tell you one thing, I might tell you another, like, you know, like it's just preference. But even, even in that, like if I'm only getting one opportunity per week, which is about, you know, say two and 15 days, then I'm like, man, maybe I should have been more aggressive, you know, like, because in the same, in the same vein that you can make a bad call, what's worse is getting winded, right? So I would, I would take like a bad call that he didn't react or reacted and maybe negatively to. And again maybe like if no one else is there, I tend to lean towards, play it safe to fight another day. But like at some point you can, you can run out and I've done that. I've had big bulls where I played it safe right to the never see him again.

So yeah, so like, and I, and Cody, that's exactly what I felt like was that I, I needed to, I needed to be more aggressive is what I, I felt like. But in the end my, my aggressiveness on that final, I shot him the, the last Day of the season, in the morning, I was able to, to get it done. And the way it worked out was I located him that night. I ended up being able to get on him in the morning. And I, I mean, he had 45 cows and, and satellites with him. It was a, it was a mess of a herd to, to try to deal with. And so he's already doing everything with satellites and cows. And I just, I didn't feel like me coming in there as another bull when there's already three of them running around that I was going to be able to draw him in.

Right.

So it was a unique, I mean, not unique. It was, that was the situation at hand. It was the only herd in this, on this mountain that I was playing this chess match with. And it just didn't ever feel like that my calling would result in what I needed.

So one of the, one of the things I would do in that situation and like, just for conversations, like, at what time? Like, what was the. So like, let's just say the last week, what was kind of the actions. Are they shutting up right after daylight? Are they like, what are they doing?

Yep. So basically it was, it was very systematical. They were above tree line in the morning. The, the herbal is bugling his head off. He's chasing. There's two, There was only two satellites with him and a bunch of cows. And so basically he's, he's doing his deal. He's running, you know, to the back of the pack, coming into the middle, the five points, trying to get some tail. Like, I mean, it was the, the definition of, of, you know, a herd dynamic and what the rut was doing. And so they would start, they would start moving in into the dark timber around that 8 to 8:30. And he would, he would be quiet and he, he would bugle every now and then during the middle of the day, but they were pretty quiet during the day and then active, real active in the morning. And then as the season progressed, it got better at night, but kind of towards the end, of course, that's how it works.

Interesting. So, I mean, one of the things you can. A play you can use in this scenario because oftentimes if I have a situation where it's like bull plus satellites, if they're very active, usually if they're shutting up, I will try to keep them active by being farther away. So sometimes even just being like across the drainage, say you're a thousand yards away, right. And you can act like two different bulls ripping off, ripping off and like just Try to keep them a little bit hot. So sometimes as they come back in the woods, if you break that routine of him, you know, he hit. As soon as he hits the timber, he's going to shut up. So do is just sit over there one morning and like, just sound like two bulls going crazy. Cow's going crazy. He's going to get fired up, which is going to fire up the satellites. It just. It almost breaks that routine where now once they come, you know, they. They have this routine every day. They come in, the satellites kind of stay back. They don't really mess with it. But if he comes in and the satellites come in and everyone's a little bit hotter, it tends to spice things up in the timber, right? And so he'll be on his feet a little bit. And this, this works in the evening too, where it's like, if I can get him fired up at 4 or 5, right, a little bit early and, you know, speed it up. It's just hard because then you have switching thermals and you have like you're trying to catch up uphill. It's always difficult. So in that morning time, if I could keep. I'm not even trying to attack him right there. It's like I'm trying to stay far enough away that he's answering, which is getting the satellites worked up, which is just creating a little bit of disruption right in the pattern. And then I can sneak over there at like 11am in that scenario, I might try to. If they're still going or if. If it seems like they're still, you know, going at it, then I can slip in, not say anything. If I slipped in and I didn't hear anything, but I kind of had an idea where they were. I may try to act like a different satellite and see if I could stir the pot again and again. Like, I. Maybe I'll just go to raking and. And bugling and just kind of stir the pot and see if I can get him up or just change, right. A lot of times, just mixing up that routine gets that bull fired up. There's always a day where that bull's gonna be going crazy all day.

Like, there's.

And. And that's ideal timing is like, if you. You hear that, that's the day, like slip in. You almost just need that distraction, right? Sometimes these elk get in that pattern where they. They come into the timber or they, you know, they're just doing their thing where they shut up, up and they're bedded down. They're really hard to like, get up once they've bedded down or like, you know, agitate a little bit or stir the pot, so to speak. But like, if you can kind of stir that pot early when they're just a little bit excited, then you kind of create that in the timber where it's like the. The satellites are all worked up, right? And then like, that creates that opportunity for you to find the mistake, right? To. To get close enough to him where he's going to do something dumb or maybe he gets up early even. I've had this scenario where it's like,

as they're coming in, just try to

keep them worked up. And that evening, you know, he may shut up, but that evening he's more worked up, right? Then he's like, he comes up an hour early. So instead of right at dark, before he starts talking, like, he gets up because he's all worked up. Another scenario just to kind of add to that is like you could spend all day over there just bugling at him, you know, every hour, maybe 45 minutes, just eat lunch, whatever. You're just messing with him all day. And I've had that where it's like he got up an hour and a half early and was just all pissed off, right. Sometimes it doesn't work. But you're never really gonna bump him from that. He's not gonna like, take his cows and leave. Cause you're a thousand yards away, you're not really a threat. So food for that.

Well, it's. Yeah, it's. And such good insight. I. That the terrain that I was hunting was. Was perfect for that too. I was on a knife ridge, kind of in between these three drainages that I'm talking to. I was tell. And that's. I stayed on that knife ridge because they. I didn't know which one they were going to be in. Are they going to be in this one or are they going to be in this one? And, and you can play that card. And so what was challenging about that was it was crazy that this was the only herd in this. In this area. And so to your point, the, the satellites, I never really. The only time I'd hear in bugle is like at, in. At the night in night, like, or. Or right at first light, the satellite might peek off a little. But I mean, the big bowl was. He would bugle and then everyone knew is, hey, this is. This is. This is my herd, right? And so then they would just go around silent, trying to steal cows and do the deal. So, yeah, I, I Think that, that, that I. I like that insight. That's awesome.

It's good.

Like, and I do think it struck, like, if you hunt Colorado, you're probably like, well, that doesn't work where I am. Which may be true. Like, some of these bulls just become very quiet, right? Like, they don't talk much, so you're kind of relying on, you know, hunting them into timber. And like, then you. You play this, man. It's a gamble, right? Because, like, you gotta get cat mouse game.

I mean, that's why it took me 20 days, you know, and. But. But even. Even that style, though, is super fun. And, you know, I was. I was. I was close multiple times. I just. I wish, you know, I was. I was impatient in times. I needed to be patient. I'll never. The. The one that I was really bummed that I screwed up on is they were up at treeline. I knew the timber they were going to come down to bed in, so I was going to meet them there. I'm going to beat them there, right? So I get into that timber and they're. They're literally walking to me. And. And as they're. And I had been sitting there for 10 minutes and then do the full, like, man, if I was just at that tree right there, right? And then like, creep over to that tree and then you look over and that cow's just got you pinned and you're just like, what was I thinking? I mean, they're coming to me. Yeah.

I mean, that's just.

That happens.

It still happens. Never changes. I was like, you know, you guess like, this tree and then like, as it. The. It materializes and you're like, nope, should have been that tree. Dang it.

Yep.

Dude, it was awesome.

Yeah.

I feel like we could go a couple hours here. I feel like we just got started. What advice do you have for new bow hunters or novice bow hunters?

Yeah, for. For the new bow hunter. There's so many useful tools out there to. To be as prepared, control the controllables. I think you've. You've. I probably stole that from you.

I stole from someone else.

Okay. But. But that's. It's pretty. It's pretty easy. Elk hunting is hard, but getting go work out, right? Like, eat better, shoot your bow, have the right equipment, go e. Scouting go. Like, it's all there. It's. It's so easy now to be somewhat prepared if you put. If you put the effort in. And. And I think there's. There's success to be had there, but it's just like anything you have to put the work in. And I'll go back to that statement. Why do 10% of the hunters kill 90% of the elk? It's cuz the those 10 percenters are putting the work in for sure.

It's a lot of work. It's totally worth it. Don't put it on a pedal either. Like just go out and do the thing. I think too many people try to like someday I'm gonna go elk hunting and it's like man, just go do like just go do it.

Yeah, yeah. And I, you know, you said this too and I mean just go kill something, right? Like if it's your second year hunting and you're waiting for a six by six like dude, that is, that is terrible. That's terrible advice. You know, you need to go figure out how you're going to react when you're at full draw. Whether that's a four point or it's a 350 bull. You need to understand and know what that feels like in my opinion.

Oh, I mean you're never going to regret shooting, you know, even a raghorn. Like shoot a raghorn. Get it, like get the experience. It's still epic. Yeah, elk's a lot of fun. It's a journey for sure. So Chris, thank you so much man. If people want to come snowmobiling with you, can we, can we still do that? Is there enough snow?

Yeah, yeah. This year's, it's, I think this year's gonna be late and we're just gonna have a killer spring. So I'm, I'm looking forward to that. But yeah, uh, if you and you guys want to check out what I'm doing here from a, from a guiding perspective or we build cool snowmobiles for people and sell lots of parts, you can just jump on my website. It's really chris or it's chrisbrandt.com so

pretty, pretty easy to remember. Awesome dude. Thank you so much for coming on. Yeah, we'd love to connect and maybe someday we'll do a hunt together.

It'd be fun. Yeah. I hope to hope to share the mountain with you, Cody. It'd be a blast.

Thanks man.

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