The Rookie Season: Taking First-Time Hunters from Zero to Tagged Out

This is the Elk Hunt Podcast, home to everything elk hunting. I'm your host, Cody Rich. From fellow DIYers to elk hunting legends, we have elk hunting stories, tips, tactics, and more to get you pumped for elk season. Join us every week for great elk hunting content. Today's episode is brought to you by onX Hunt. All right, listen up. If you're not using the new LiDAR on onX yet, you're literally leaving elk on the table or off the table. I'm gonna go with off the table. onX has LiDAR. LiDAR is amazing. LiDAR gives you the ability to see the micro terrain in your topo map, so kind of cuts out the, the, the trees and all those things, and you can see micro benches. You you can see the micro details in the side of a mountain, which are huge for finding elk, for finding mule deer, whatever you want. It just takes your, your, your 3D or your topo mapping to the next level. So if you're not an Elite member yet, you need to be because LiDAR is amazing and you get LiDAR when you're an onX Elite member. If you're not yet, go sign up onxhunt.com, become an Elite member. You get a ton of benefits. LiDAR makes your maps better. Better maps make you a better hunter.

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Use the code TRO. You'll save yourself 20% off. This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Tricer. And some exciting news from Tricer. They actually just dropped the new updated AD and BC tripods, which are really cool. I got to test them this year. Test the— I was running the BC, the new TriTech technology, I guess you'd call it. And what it does, it's like the center post is now a T-post, which is really cool because it makes it smaller diameter, packs down smaller. It's a couple inches shorter. The new top is sweet. So everything is just a little bit cleaner and simpler. But I also just like how the center post operates versus the old school. So leave it to Drew to constantly be innovating.

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All right, Dylan, welcome to the podcast, buddy. How are we doing?

I'm doing great, man. This is what, my 9th time on the podcast? I got to be the most requested guest maybe ever in the history of Rich Outdoors.

For sure. Number one phantom requested person I've ever interviewed.

So, I mean, and by requests, I mean I request to be on the podcast. Cody, please.

Dude, no, great to have you. We always have a good conversation and you're kind of like, you know, you're a real elk killer. I think we can say that now. One of these days you'll kill a 6-point and then I feel like you've graduated. But, you know, like, at least you're killing elk. We're off to a really good start.

Man, 3 for 3 the last 3 years. And I never thought in my life I'd say that. Dude, there it is. The archery. First archery kill right there. Only took me 12 years.

I mean, it's like—

Do it.

It's like riding a bike.

Dude, I feel like I'm gonna go 10 years, another 10 years without a kill now that I kind of almost know how to kill a raghorn.

So are you going to hold out this year?

No, dude. No, right. Oak meat is, is too good and my kids eat too much, you know.

I mean, I can appreciate that. So one of the— we're gonna get into, uh, you dropped a new film and we could talk, we're going to talk about that. Like, should we give a little teaser what it's about and then we'll circle back and talk about it? What's this?

Yeah, and, uh, it, it's a project I've been dreaming about for several years. It's called the rookie season, um, where I, over the last 4 years of me, you know, doing this and making fun of myself and taking myself less seriously in the hunting space, I, I just had a ton of DMs of people like, I've always wanted to hunt. I think maybe I could do this. I have no idea where to begin. And I'm intimidated. Like I've seen videos of hunters fighting in the woods or people, what clothes am I supposed to wear? Like everyone's mad about everything. Like, how do I start? And it just kind of gave me this idea of like, man, there's so many people these days that, you know, in their 30s, like grown people that didn't grow up with a hunting background, um, that think, man, I want to put good food on the table. Like, we were eating poison every day from the grocery store, and Bill Gates is trying to force spoon-feed us lab-grown meat now. Like, people are, uh, I don't know. So that's where the idea started of like, oh, every time I see a video of new hunters hunting, it's usually people that grew up, you know, and Their dad was a hunter, but his dad died and now we, I don't know where to start. Or it's like a 13-year-old kid that's always wanted to hunt. These are people that have zero hunting background, grew up in a city, computer geeks, software engineers that are like, okay, it just got me thinking like, what if I just took grown people with zero hunting background, zero experience, and just took them hunting for the first time to show— the tagline of the series is, "Hunting is not for everybody, but it could be for you." And so that was the premise. And took 3 people that just within the last year or 2 are like, "I think I'm— could you teach me how to do this?" And yeah, had a ton of sponsors just hop on board. And get them kitted up, you know, rifles, optics, boots, clothing, onX, you know, elite memberships so they could start scouting. I basically just wanted to show anyone from any background can go get a pretty— a rifle that shoots, go through hunter safety, pick a spot on public land and kill a deer. Met. And die.

So pretty successful. You took a bunch of people, you know, and I guess the first thing that comes to mind, we can kind of dive into some of the stories, but do you think that it's unrealistic or is it a bad idea to like say, hey, I've always wanted to hunt, I'm going to go try to shoot an elk? I do feel like a deer is a much lower barrier to entry. Yeah, it's— Maybe I'm asking the wrong guy. Yeah. You're like 3 elk, right? Maybe, maybe, maybe there's like, yeah, some, uh, too high of a barrier and I'm like, hey, let's start with, uh, deer versus elk. But do you feel like that's bad advice or like, do you think it's bad to like try to like bite off, you know, the whole elk thing right outta the gate?

Uh, oof. I think if you're going from like these guys, You know, hey, why do you check the wind? Oh, oh, wow. Deer can smell you from like 10 miles away.

Right.

Like zero. We're talking zero baseline knowledge of hunting. I felt like I was like teaching toddlers, not in the sense of like they're retarded.

Yeah.

Some of them are. But no, I'm kidding. But to go from like zero hunting knowledge to, hey, we're going to go find elk. I mean, that's just a, that's a huge step up. And you definitely don't, you barely want me teaching you how to hunt deer. You definitely don't want me teaching you how to hunt elk. It's a whole different ballgame with elk. You know that. But everyone, like pretty much in every state, uh, can, there's deer there. So I just was like. I can find deer consistently. I can probably get these guys on a deer. And it's not even about that. If we fill tags, awesome. And luckily all 3 of them filled deer tags, which was just the coolest thing ever. But no, I, I mean, one guy, Brandon, you know, it was a mile pack out back to the truck with a deer and it almost killed him. So I, Yeah, I can't imagine like taking him to the top of a mountain somewhere, killing an elk and just that overwhelming thing. So yeah, I think, uh, just going straight to elk would be wild, especially where I'm at in Montana. There's not a ton of elk up here. Um, I think someday that would be really cool to do like a rookie season for elk. I just, I still am a rookie elk hunter. So. You need to do the rookie season for Elle can just take me and hold my hand, you know, which is essentially what you've done over the years.

What's like the real difference though? Like, it is like there's levels to the game for sure. And I think like, maybe, maybe, maybe you could say like, yeah, if you're a total noob, you don't even know which end of the gun to use to like point at the animal, then yeah, probably not starting there. But I don't know. I do like, in my opinion, and I'll call you out on this, is like, I think people put elk on a pedestal, and it's like, it's not that much different. I mean, it's probably more miles, and like, yeah, like finding a deer— yeah, pretty easy comparative. Now, this depends on where you are. Like, you know, if you got— yes, private land, you know, it's like shooting elk is the exact same as shooting a deer. Uh, a little more work getting it out, but other than that, it's like, I do feel like I tend to think that people put elk on a pedestal. And dude, I think you're guilty of this. It's like people put elk on a pedestal and then you're like, you make it harder than it has to be or harder than it really is because you're like, oh God, oh God, it's like this thing, right? So I don't know. I mean, I love the concept of like, hey, take this new hunter. I do feel like if I would just to play devil's advocate, not that he needs one, but if you were to say like, oh, I'm going to teach you how to go on an elk hunt and like say I take you, all of a sudden deer hunting becomes way easier. You know, it's the concept of, you know, if we try to shoot bows at 80 yards, all shooting at 40 yards becomes very easy. So I do, I'm like a little bit of like, oh, you know, if we went and tried to find elk, then deer becomes easy. But then I think the flip side of that would be like, you go on a week-long elk hunt and you see nothing, you're like, yes, hunting sucks, I'm not doing that.

Hunting sucks.

Yeah.

For sure. I think the biggest reason was just physically it's a lot— it can be a lot less demanding. But Solomon, who, you know, he's barely ever shot a rifle in his life and took him to a spot where the whitetails hang out at mule deer elevations and it is disgusting, nasty, steep country. Dude, he killed his first buck, which was the biggest buck of the, you know, of the series. 8.5, 9.5-year-old public land, disgusting. Like, but a 5x5, his, his G2s are 2 inches because everything in age has just regressed and turned into 2 All mated clubs, right? Like, it's one of the coolest deer I've ever seen. He made a 600-yard shot, uh, which I have to talk about that in that when that episode releases of like, if you're gonna be mad, be mad at me. He had no idea. I just turned the dial and was like, this is our last data hunt. The gun shoots. I just kind of taught you some stuff, dude. Pulled it off. First time hunter and in some of the nastiest, most disgusting country. This deer went 3/4 of a mile downhill, was still trying to chase does. 3 rounds in its lungs. I'd never seen a deer tank. I'd never seen this in my life. Ended up 7— the way this all worked out, found the deer and then had a 7-mile pack out back to the truck. In 5-degree weather. And this, and Solomon, he's one of my best friends on the planet. Let me know on day 2 of our hunt, taking him up the steepest, just, just disgusting country, rock climbing down and up. It, you'll see it in the video, but, uh, he let me know on day 2 of that hunt, like, I have really bad asthma and I forgot my inhaler. So I say, I don't know, the whole, all that to say deer hunting, when you think of starting hunting, I think everyone starts with deer and they're in every state. You can pretty much hunt whitetail everywhere. And, excuse me, I'm very sick. Yeah, I just wanted to show people like anyone in any state. And take hunter safety, go on public land and learn how to hunt.

What was your biggest takeaway from the whole project?

Man, I think I've said this on other podcasts. I've said this a lot. You know, when you like invite someone to your house for the first time, or you bring someone by Bridger HQ for the first time, you become extra hyper-aware of how full the trash can is. What's it smell like in here? Did I get rid of that couch? I've had that couch for a while. Did I, when was the last time I vacuumed that couch? You're more hyper-aware of things maybe you take for granted a little bit. That was the coolest thing is, you know, seeing Brandon, this one-handed Asian kid, um, see a moose in the wild for the first time. And he just said to me, if I don't see any other animal for the rest of this time, this is all worth it because I got to see a moose for 5 minutes. And every time we see an animal, you're like, whoa, that is so cool. But the magic of it being reminded of, wow, I get to do this like pretty much every day. That was the biggest takeaway for me is like seeing everything through their eyes. I go to church a lot and there's cause that's a big part of my life. When you invite someone to your church for the first time, you become extra hyper-aware of what the pastor's talking about. Does this person feel comfortable? Are we talking about weird stuff right now? Like what's going on? You just, that, oh, I want you to enjoy this. I want you to love every minute of it. Are you warm enough? Are you comfortable? Like everything, you just become, it was like seeing it, taking someone new kind of gives you that joy of seeing it and fresh eyes yourself. And that was very, very cool. And something I want to do every, every year now is just take new people hunting.

Which is interesting. And I think it's very true where you're, you know, you're hyper-aware and you're like, you want them to have a good time and you're like, oh, I hope they're enjoying this. And did you find yourself, one of the things I struggle with, which is like, say I take someone new I would really struggle to take them where it's, you know, the rock climbing, blowdown, nasty country. Because you're like, ah, like, is that too much? Like, am I— first, and I do that even when I take, you know, people who I know can hunt. I tend to, I don't know, sugarcoat it in a way, or not sugarcoat it, but like dumb it down. And it's like, then it's like I feel bad because it's like, I know what to do, it's not going to be fun. And like, you wonder if it's too much. Did you ever catch yourself being like, this is going to suck and they're not going to like me for this, but we got to go to where the deer are?

Kind of. But I would kind of tailor the hunt to the person or, you know, have those talks beforehand, like physically, hey, do you want to like have an adventure or do you want to take it easy? And I'd kind of tailor it to them. Um, I'm sorry, man. That's horrible for your audio. And then, um, like Brandon, we hunted for 2 days. Steven, who flew in and then 4 hours later rattled in a buck for him. Uh, Solomon was 3 days of hunting and I knew by day 2 what we can get away with and what he's comfortable with. So I just kind of either ease him into it or based on how day 1 went, switch it up. But I didn't, yeah, I wanted them to enjoy it and fall in love with it like that. So I didn't want to just kill them on, you know, the first day and make it miserable for them. Because you and I, I think the more you hunt, you learn to love that aspect of things, you kind of get addicted to having like a little bit of fear or like trepidation of like, what's going to happen? Oh, the weather's getting crazy. I, I like need that now, but I didn't always love that. You know, like going with my dad as a, as a kid, if the weather sucked, I wanted to go home in an hour after. You have to like learn to love this suffering. But when you're trying to show what hunting is for people that don't know, you kind of like need some of it. So it, yeah, it was a very nuanced kind of thing, but it, man, it couldn't have worked out any better.

Dude, that's freaking crazy. No, and it's cool because I like, I mean, I think about that with my kid and like, you know, like we were just out mountain biking the other day and like the weather's turning and I'm like, oh yeah. And like, You know, kids instantly like, oh, we should go back. You're like, oh no, like we gotta, we gotta suffer a little bit. That's the fun part.

Yeah, exactly. But you've learned to love the suffering, right? Even though sometimes you're like, 3 days straight of blizzard and wind and even then you're like, that's kind of frickin sucks. You know, like everyone goes through that, but you learn to love it. I don't know. It's strange.

I think you should do it again next year, but do an elk hunt. I actually think it would make you a better elk hunter trying to like, I mean, it's the same concept, right? Like you go to like, uh, I mean, if you want to learn how to do something, teach it. And like, I, I—

those who can't do, teach.

For sure. Maybe that's me. Uh, I think there's a lot of like, so when I went to school, you like in fire school, you were the first year, you're like, you know, you're learning and the second year you're teaching. And so the concept being is like you have to go through certain aspects and then once you try to teach it, like you have to get very clear about the process or the system or like whatever.

Right.

And I think there's a lot of truth in that. Like, I do feel like once you, you have to have some experience, but then when you try to teach someone, You have to understand it to its core to be able to tell someone else how to do it. Right. And so you have to break it down at simple principles and move on. Uh, to, I think to the same point, like, I think when you try to teach someone how to L-con, you boil it down to its like simplest version and then you're like, go do the thing. Right. Sometimes easier said than done in certain aspects. Uh, and depending on where you are, which is like, The tough part about it is like, I think what you did, you know, you're like, okay, 3 days to go kill a deer. Like, we can get that done. A little bit tough to be like, hey, 10 days of hard lessons and pushing to find out. Yeah. How many days does it take to kill an elk? So that's, I mean, that's tough. But I do think it would help you. Yeah.

Oh, 100%, man. Uh, and yeah, I think we'll get there. Um, but like, I already have like the guys lined up for next season and one of them is a full-on British dude named Colin who I just adore. He's one of the coolest guys, just sweet, craziest story. He's, I think he's in his 50s and just very proper British. And I think if I took him elk hunting, like he would kill me on the mountain, you know, I don't know. But one of the guys, like, Joe, computer engineer, works for a high-end law software company and literally works at his computer all day, loves anime and video games. One of my favorite human beings ever. And I finally convinced him to go hunting. And his wife grew up on this 13,000-acre ranch in Montana. Breaking horses and that's the ranch I killed my first elk on.

Okay.

I'm like, Joe, you don't understand, man. Like you married into, you know, one of the— When I stood up on this property, you know, people think private ranch. It's, I killed my first bull 50 feet from BLM, you know?

Right.

It's so expansive, you know, river bottom, agriculture up to 7,500-foot peaks, mule deer, whitetails. It's, I've never, I stood up on this bluff and where you could just kind of see both sides of this property and shed a tear. And I've never, it's one of the most stunning Pieces of property I've ever seen in my life and just the remorse of like, I'll never own anything like this. You know? And my friend Joe like married into it. And so what we're trying to do is get his first hunt on this ranch, you know, that he's been married into for a decade and it's, he's been to it, but how cool would that be to get his first, you know, tag-filled.

Yeah, but do you think you'd ever like look at it the same way you and I do?

Maybe. But that's what I want to explore. You know, it's like Solomon, you know, all these guys, you know, Montana Knife Company knives, Seekins Precision, send them all brand new rifles. Solomon's a big knife guy. And what's so funny is like on the drive home with his deer, but as we're packing out in the toughest part of this hunt? He's like, dude, I'll be honest with you. I agreed to do this because I knew I was getting a knife. I'll be honest. Hilarious. And he's like, but I get it now. Like, I'm all in. What else can we hunt? When's the next tag I can buy? That's what I wanted. I wanted to see if people could go from like, I'll do this to help my friend with this little project. And yeah, maybe, you Oh, this would be cool to like, no, I want to go hunting all the time now. I, I, I get it. I get what you've been talking about for 10 years since I've known you.

I'm in.

And it'd be cool to see that with someone like Joe or even funnier if he's like, yeah, this sucks. Never again. Because I think that's important to show too, you know, because hunting isn't for everyone. It can't be.

What's the, what's like the conversations on those hunts? Cause like, you know, like I'm sure there's, uh, a lot of like reservation in the beginning and then like, you know, you slowly start to see the light turn on. Like it'd be cool to kind of record audio throughout that hunt.

Yeah. And that's, that was the hardest thing, man, is, you know, this year one of doing this is like, I needed to show the proof of concept. Here's what it is. I have, I don't even have 1,000 subscribers on YouTube. And still all these brands are like, dude, we love this idea. We're all in.

What do you need?

Where do we send it? Just been so supportive and cool.

Cool.

But being the guy that has to like, my eyes are tuned, more tuned to see deer than they are, you know, because you're not trying to see a deer. You're trying to see the flick of an ear or whatever and, and film everything. And guide slash mentor, keep them calm for a shot, get them into a stable shooting position. Like having to do all that was so hard and editing some of these things. I'm like, I don't have near enough B-roll. This is just a ton of us talking into the camera. How can I tell this story? And I didn't record that one thing that he, that he said that was so helpful. So. Hey, say again what you just said, you know? So I'm hoping next year to like have a dedicated videographer, someone who can actually edit this and be able to really capture all that. But we did get a lot of that good stuff, you know? I think Solomon like sitting up here and I had to cut this out of the film for time, but he's sitting there telling me like, I always made fun of like Bigfoot guys or like But like being out here, like, surely there's something else out here in all this expansive land and stuff. And those conversations were some of my favorites, you know, we're like, well, what do we do if we kill one over there? I'm like, we'll deal with it when we get there. Yeah.

You'll see.

There's, there was so much of that and trying to capture all of it and edit it down into a 15-minute thing that, you know, lots of J-cuts and L-cuts, you know, where no one watched, no one watches hunt videos anymore either, which is very difficult. So trying to make something that's entertaining for maybe someone who's never hunted to go, oh, this is interesting. This person's like me and keeping entertaining for them, but also trying to keep hunters engaged. It's, it's tough, dude. I don't know if that answered your question at all, but I think I have a fever, you know, so we're just rolling with it. Okay, buddy.

Oh, forget it. Don't die on me here. Yeah. So I want to ask kind of some— so what were the questions that you got? What were like the tactical takeaways that they got? What were like the If you could die, like, what was the lessons learned or the aha moments for them?

Very good. Um, dude, everything from why do I have to close the truck door quiet? Like, think of the most—

because your dad's gonna hit you if you don't. Oh wait, no, that was me.

No, that's a joke. And that, by the way, the first episode with Brandon Yap, um, one-handed Asian wonder, as we've called him. Forever. It's out now. Dylan Dietz, D-E-I-T-Z, or just search The Rookie Season Hunt on YouTube. That's out. Please go watch it so that I can do this next year and prove that the concept works. Please watch this and please subscribe. That's a joke in the thing. I was like, we just learned our first hunting lesson and it's closing the truck door quietly. So I yelled at him as my father did to me. That's so good. I don't know. I think the biggest aha moment I think all three of these guys had was when you think of whitetail deer as a non-hunter, you think dumbass animal getting run over on the highway. To see everyone had this kind of aha moment of like, oh wow, like just being here and watching wild animals do their thing gives me a whole new respect for the animal. Like, wow. And everything from, you know, you know, finding a coyote kill and like, oh man, coyotes do that, you know? Oh wow. Like these Oh, a bullet through the lungs is definitely the most humane way these animals are going to die. Oh, they— 5 years is an old deer and they just get eaten from the butthole up while they're still alive. That's the best case scenario for these things, or they die of starvation or whatever it is. Like seeing them all come to the— just have a deeper respect for the animal. Because, you know, trying to describe to a non-hunter that we love these animals more than you ever have the capacity, trying to explain that is almost impossible. As you know, you kill them, but you love them. Like, you wouldn't get it. You know, you wouldn't get it. Seeing them all kind of come to that understanding and, you know, teaching them how to walk quietly. Like over time, your, your brain becomes attached to your feet, you know, and obviously for elk hunting, it's different or bears, it's different, but there's something about hunting whitetail deer. They're just so spooky. You gotta really watch where you're stepping. It was all these like basic things. I'm so sorry, dude. All these basic questions, all these ba— this basic knowledge that we haven't had to think about for like 20 years. Getting them to have this understanding of like, oh, this isn't just like being fat and sitting in a blind and—

Right, right.

These dumb deer come out and you shoot one in the face. Like, there's so much that comes into this. Or I try to take all of them to the range to teach them how to shoot and do real-world shooting scenarios and why getting stable is so important because when your adrenaline's going, I don't know, that was like the biggest aha for me and for them. It was like, oh, all these basic, like, no-brainer questions that, or, hey, we see that deer 900 yards away. How do we get to him? Oh, well, here's what I do. Here's what Onyx, we can look and go, we need to get to this ridge. Here's our approach. This, I don't know, man. There's so much. Like, imagine taking a child. You anticipate those questions. When you take a grown person who's never hunted, you almost don't, it's almost like common knowledge stuff that, oh yeah, I need to like dumb this way down. I need to start from the beginning. I need to teach like why deer smell the way they do. Their whole life is set up to avoid predators. I don't know. There's so much that goes into that, that question, but it was just really cool to be like, oh yeah, man. Like you don't know anything. Made me feel like a way better hunter than I am.

You're like, I'm really smart taking these people hunting.

Yeah, it kind of like in a weird way gave me some more confidence of like, I, I know more than I give myself credit for, you know, and seeing these guys all fill tags within a couple of days, even on deer, when you're trying to find a buck, like that's not always easy. Yeah, man, it was awesome.

And then you took Ben hunting as well. You got him his first deer. In Montana.

Dude, that was awesome because it, um, if you watch Brandon's episode, which again, I'm literally begging you, please blow that video up so I can keep doing this. Um, I saw the, the buck that ended up killing, we saw on day one of Brandon's hunt, and it was the first year, first buck we saw of the, that trip. It was a stud, like mature. Mountain 4x4. I would have hung my tag on it, like no-brainer. Uh, that's the same deer that Ben ended up killing. I rattled it in for him like 10 days later. Really, really cool. Same area came together, same exact hill.

Oh wow.

So it died 50 feet from where Brandon killed his first buck.

Ah, that's crazy.

Well, you guys rattling—

super cool because you rattled in a couple different bucks. Is that— I mean, you do a lot of rattling for mountain whitetails.

Yes, I do. Rallied in 5 or 6 bucks this year. Steven's episode, which is coming out this Friday. I don't know the date. What is this Friday? I don't know when this podcast will come out either. I should know that. Sorry. April 17th, Steven's episode comes out. Uh, we had to— he's a 100% disabled veteran. And someone told me he flew in from— he lives on a boat in Hawaii, like one of the coolest people ever. So he flew from 90— he was surfing in 90-degree weather, blew up, and it was like 20 degrees. He was freezing his ass off. It was hilarious. Um, someone had told me 100% in Montana, you can gift a tag to 100% disabled vet if they're a non-resident. And I just went, that's 100% true. Perfect. The Saturday before Steven flies in, I wake up at 3 in the morning in a panic of like, oh my God, I didn't fact check any of this. So I start panicking of like, he's flying in and he's spending his whole own money to come do this. And am I going to be able to get him a tag? Come to find out, yes, you can gift a tag to a veteran. However, it has to be done before the season starts. So strike one, done. They have to be a Purple Heart recipient, which he is not. And it has to be through an organization that uses hunting as rehabilitation. So I'm like, fuck, I don't have a tag for him. Luckily. Uh, uh, Montana opened up a CWD unit, but it's in like downtown Whitefish, essentially, like in this one spot of public land that's covered in trails. But for $100, we got him a tag that was good for either sex. But I'm like, never hunted this area. All my plans for him are out the window. This is going to be the most heavily— everyone's trying to fill their doe tag here. We pull up to the gate and, uh, never been here before in my life. There's a woman running with her dog at 5 AM screaming, hey, dark, back here. I'm like, this is a shit show already. We're not going to see anything. And I just picked a spot on OnyxMap, the furthest away from any road. Thought we could get away from people. And I told Steven, like, by 11 AM, we're going to rattle in a buck. For you to kill off this. And that's exactly what happened.

No way.

Yeah, this is awesome. Cool. Big, heavy 5-point side, a 5-point by club. Made a 200-yard shot off the kneeling off the bipod. And I'm thinking, like, military. He's shot guns before. We had no time to go to the range. He hasn't shot a gun in years. He's been retired. And yeah, He frickin did it, but we recovered.

So you got a random tag, you go to this one spot you've never been to.

Yeah, dude.

And you just set up and rattle and all of a sudden a giant comes in or what?

I literally said like, we're going to rattle a curious buck off of that drainage right there. And that's exactly what happened. It was awesome. And Ben's hunt, I said 11 AM is the witching hour for whitetails. Everyone leaves the woods. I think these bucks just get really curious and restless. Pre-rut is my favorite time to rattle, by the way. I don't find a lot of success.

What's the date?

Okay. Wow.

I don't want to dive into this. So pre-rut, what's the dates? And then you're rat— like that you'd find that bad, better than rattling during the rut?

It's like bugling to a bull late season that already has cows.

Right.

Okay. He's doesn't want anything to do with that. He's got his, or whatever. I find pre-rut, which is like end of October through November 10th, and every year is kind of different. This year the deer were rutting like really, really late. Pre-rut, they're just more curious. They're starting to, they're not going to come screaming in ready to fight, but it's, it's rare that you find a buck that just comes running into a grunt to, to, to fight. I think in the else that happens more, I found on my mountain whitetails. Of all the grunt sequences, rattling sequences I've done, I've only grunted in a buck to 15 yards one time. You know what I mean? Ears pinned back, ready to go. But when they're curious, they're going to come in to within a couple hundred yards and just, what's going on over here? Is there a hot doe?

Yeah.

You know, so it's kind of similar with elk hunting, I think. And you can correct me because I'm probably wrong here, but I have an easier time calling in bulls like mid-September, and then the bugle tube goes away when bulls already have cows or whatever. And I go more to like calf calling and stuff. I think it's very similar. Find the time when they're the most curious. Or starting to check stuff out, things are starting to heat up. Not like you hit the rattling antlers and 10 bucks just come.

So how long you gotta rattle for preseason?

I don't know, 2 minutes and then just wait and watch.

Yeah. So like how many seconds are you like when you, what, how long is your sequence?

Uh, I think it varies. I don't, I don't put a lot of stuff. It's more like emotion. Or sometimes pre-rut, you can get away with like more sparring techniques, like kind of light. I like to clang them together. Flap, flap, flap, flap, flap, flap. I don't know.

Very descriptive. I actually knew I could, yeah, that worked. Told me exactly what I needed.

Yeah.

Flap, flap, flap.

Flap, flap, flap, flap. It's like drumming, you know? Yeah. Couple grunts after, like tending grunts, I have a lot of success with. After mixing some snort wheezes. It just, you're playing off the motion. Then if nothing, I'll give it 30 minutes and then go hard. I don't know. It's like elk calling. You gotta, it's all emotion, not necessarily the tone.

You know what I'm saying? Right.

And then just be very vigilant. Um, yeah, I don't know.

I do most of the time. You see them coming and you catch a movement or do you just like, oh, there's a deer staring at me?

Catch movement for sure. Or I don't know. I, a lot of guys don't like that blind calling where you're just hoping.

Yeah.

Um, a lot of guys would be like, no, only rattle when you can see the deer. That happens more in the south where you can like see and you're trying to get them into bow range. I love blind calling for deer. It basically—

especially when you're rifling, because you only got to get them within a couple hundred yards.

Yeah, if the timing is right and a buck is within 400 yards and you're patient, like, you will see that, that buck.

Oh really?

Yeah, in my experience. Interesting.

Yeah, I want a rattle box.

I'm gonna make you a whitetail guy, dude.

I could totally be a whitetail guy. I like, yeah, I, I could definitely see that.

You know what, I love every season that you send me from your front porch. Pissed me off so bad. I was like, there's zero reason that that deer should be alive. And I know like shooting them off the— which isn't that, but it sounds way more fun to rattle.

I'm like, dude, I was actually thinking of, uh, going—

it's so much fun.

When we went to Kodiak, uh, late season Kodiak blacktails rattling, that was so epic, dude. We, we I don't know, rattled them. Really? $8 or $10. Yeah, we were like rattling in bucks, uh, to like 15 yards.

Like, when do they rut up there? I'm going to Alaska for the first time in August.

Yeah, yeah, you're going— you're going— no, like first week in November. So like the first 10 days of November is like, uh, rut, and then it's, you know, whatever.

Yeah, that is awesome.

If you go in August, it's like— it's like high country mule deer versus— yeah, when you hunt, there's two ways to hunt Think of blacktails, it's, uh, like high country mule deer, which is in August, and then you get up high and you're like just looking for bedded bucks or whatever, bed buck down, put a stalk on. When you hunt them in November, which is like closer to the beaches or down low, and you're rattling bucks and like, yeah, you're seeing—

that sounds awesome.

Yeah, it— yeah, the rattling's fun. Like, I, I did a lot of rattling for Columbia blacktails growing up. Which you hunt more like whitetails. That's why I say I could probably be a whitetail guy. Like, I've rattled in, uh, my first blacktail that I killed with my bow, Columbia blacktail. I rattled him into like 12 yards and shot him.

That was sick, man. Maybe that's— you gotta maybe save your deer tag and come hunt them on some real mountain whitetails. Because that's what Ben said when he hunted with me. He's like, feels like we're hunting blacktail. Like, it's the same You know, everyone's— my dad makes fun of me forever. What's a mountain whitetail, dumbass? Like, a whitetail that has never seen an ag field in its life, right? That's the type of whitetails that I love to hunt. It's like hunting a— it's a different animal. It's a different experience. Uh, they're more aggressive. They're a lot spookier. Um, I don't know. It's just fun.

Like, yeah, I'm all about it. Like, to me, like, so even in, uh, So in Oregon, you'll appreciate this. In Oregon, you have like the Willamette Valley, which is blacktails that act like whitetails. They're ag field, they're river bottom bucks. They're like, you know, they, they kind of, they act more like whitetails. And then what we would call like, oh, mountain bucks, right? So mountain bucks, same, same animal virtually, but like mountain bucks, you live up in the timber and, you know, the ferns and old, not old growth or maybe old growth, but like up in the mountains, right? Like those are blacktails that live very similar to like what mountain whitetail. So killed a lot of both. Mountain whitetail to me sounds like the most fun. Nothing wrong with like, it goes back to like you giving me crap for not shooting them in my yard. Like, I'm like, they're yard deer. Like, I'm just not that interested in shooting yard deer. I hear you. You know? I hear you. You know, when my kids—

When they're the size of your yard deer, I'm like, Cody, please stop sending me that shit. Pissing me off. It's like every elk season you send videos passing 330 bulls. I'm like, why are you doing this to me?

Yeah, but like, I, I would be more stoked to like rattle in a mountain whitetail that was like 120 inches than I would be to shoot a 150-inch whitetail in my yard.

100%. I'm the same way. Unless you let me shoot some of those yard bucks. It will drive it up into the mountains and pose for pictures.

Dude, yeah, that's how you do it on Instagram.

But no, I want to hunt Oregon blacktail is like up there on my dream hunt list. Like I get made fun of for living in the West and being a mountain whitetail guy. I don't know. I just think they're so cool. Everyone hunts mule deer up here. That's cool too. I don't know. There's just something about the mountain whitetail that I just cannot get away from.

Dude, what's like, what's a big mountain whitetail?

Anything over 130, I would say, because they don't, you know, they're not eating alfalfa. They're not getting giant, giant antlers, but they're just nasty, heavy, brash everywhere and just huge bodies. Like this buck Solomon killed was like the size of a mature mule deer. I've never seen a bigger whitetail in my life. His hooves, dude. Oh, that's what I want is just finding that big old gnarly nasty. I don't care about, um, you know, inches. Um, it, it's where's that mature, just disgusting old troll buck. Yes. You know, I killed a 5 and a half year old whitetail, 123 inches, but he's 5 and a half, giant bases, drop tine. Like, that's the kind of stuff that you can get on the mountain because they just— they're eating random bushes and stuff. I don't know. I just think they're the coolest, coolest thing. Yeah, like a 160 will get killed every year, which a 160 mountain whitetail is like, dude, you did it.

That's like a 200-inch mule deer.

That's a 360 bull. You know, that's like—

so it's like a slightly better than average bull, so you're telling me.

You're a piece of shit. It's so funny, man. Like, you asked me earlier, like, you're gonna pass some bulls this year? I'm like, no. But there was a time where I thought I'd never pass a spike whitetail, you know. It'll just— meh, the ball. You know?

Yeah.

So I don't know.

Yeah. Are you, would you pass like a 115, you know, 3x3 whitetail? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Unless it was an old gnarly freak deer, you know? Uh, so I don't know. I don't know if I'll ever be a mule deer guy. This year I found this whitetail spot because I was like, whitetail hunting's been kind of slow. Uh, let's go try to kill a big mule deer. And then I find this spot, I glass 15 whitetail does or mule deer does with no bucks in them. Look 100 vertical feet, 100 vertical feet down and oh, there's 3 of the biggest whitetails I've seen all season. Been chasing those whitetails. Yeah. And I say it's because, you know, I'm a conservationist at heart and our mule deer numbers aren't doing well.

Yeah. And whitetail are like, you should just be shooting whitetail because they're not real animals.

Pit the couple. But everyone goes to these spots to hunt mule deer. And then I feel like I just get free pickings on all the whitetails. That's a good— I'll take that deal, you know? Yeah. You need to do that hunt with me, man. It is so much fun.

Dude, there's also like, there's a few places out east where I would love to get some access because I feel like no one really wants to hunt the whitetails. And so I feel like if you could find, I think in corridors where people are, they whitetail.

Those farmers, those farmers will tell you like, yes, please kill some of these rats off my hay field, but you have to kill 3 does before a buck. Like, yeah, been them. Like this ranch we hunted, we were passing 30 to 40 bucks a day. Saying, I've never seen anything like it. And they're just like, kill more, stop, just kill more deer. They're eating all of the crops. Oh, that was so sweet, man.

Well, so, so next year we're gonna do it. Uh, yeah, we should do a whitetail hunt. I'm down.

Yeah. You know my schedule. I'm a lot freer than you are right now, Mr. Bridger. Dude, bear sees us tomorrow. I'm trying to like flood my body with cayenne and lemon so I can go hunt tomorrow. It's going to piss rain, but I'm just— I'll probably camp in the truck tonight and glass in the morning. And one of my favorite hunts of the year for sure.

Dude, the thing about spring bear this year is like you can actually hunt in the first half, which is going to be fun. We're supposed to get like 5 inches of snow, so I'm pretty stoked for this.

They're still— they're still going to be out though. You can track them. Get on to that black bear tracking.

That's not happening.

You're not a big black bear hunter, man.

I've probably killed more black bears than most people. Uh, yeah, I just kind of do it.

I just never see you like get excited for it.

I killed a bunch of them and now I don't really get that excited. I kill one every other year or so. So I don't know.

Yeah. No, I hear you. And I'm trying to, I'm trying to combat that speechlessness.

I started killing black bears in 2004. And then I went on a bender of killing black bears and probably till like 2015.

So like, so I just got bored stacking them. I don't know. It's the way I see it though, dude. It's like it's predator management. People pass way too many 5-foot bears and that 5-foot sow will kill 20 fawns.

Right.

I'm starting a new campaign. Stop passing black bears. If it's legal, kill it.

Well, I have this like, and I asked a biologist this one time and he didn't have a really good answer for me. But the funny thing about this is that I do feel like, you know, we all want to kill boars for whatever reason. But like, the reality is, is if you say you elk hunt or bear hunt because you want to save elk, you should be killing sows, like legal sows, obviously not with cubs, but like, there's no reason, like, The sow, like, boars are going to kill themselves and the sows are going to kill elk. So, I mean, you know how much I love calling for black bears.

It's my favorite way to kill them. And of all the bears we've called in and killed, the vast majority are 10+ year old sows that are coming in on a string, coming in downwind, ready to kill.

Really?

That fawn. Yeah, they're ex— they're almost more aggressive than the boars are in my experience. And as you're getting these just old crusty— the oldest one I've killed is 13 years old. Yeah, all the time.

You just sit up on a hill and start wailing?

Head up above a running creek drainage late May and you will call bears in.

All right, timeout. So running creek, why, why? Just because the running creek drainage means they hold late.

Late May, you know, everything's green there. You're not going to catch them on hills. You know, that's where I typically switch to glassing north faces and the pocket parks. But late May, everything's green and bears don't have to leave the timber. And it's hot. They just hole up, find the nastiest, thickest creek drainage with running water in the bottom. I like an east to west running. Or west to east, uh, with the southern exposure and you're sitting on the north or vice versa. And if you call into that creek drainage for 30 to 40 minutes straight with the phone call, you will call in a black bear.

So when you say 30 to 40 minutes straight, are you like no breaths? That's, that's hard.

Nonstop. I learned that from Remy Warren. Oh, it sucks. Uh, my jaw is very, I'm proving the internet right here. My jaw is, can handle it. You know, I tried it a couple of times.

I make it like 8 to 10 minutes. I'm like, this sucks. That's brutal.

I'm leaving home to go hunting to escape my children whining and crying all day.

So you just make the noise.

You mimic that at 1,000 decibels nonstop. But there's something about it. Like, bears, you know, we've tested this, like a bear we're not going to kill or a sow with cubs. 300, 400 yards away. Well, let's test this theory. Second you hit that call, it's going to turn and look at you, go back to what it's doing. Somewhere in that 30 to 40 minute mark, nonstop, they're like, shut up, everything, and come running. And I think you just have to convince them this is the easiest meal of your life. I promise. You know how bears are weird, man. I've called for black bears and had them pop out within 2 minutes, but 30 to 40 minutes of nonstop spotting.

And you're on the timber, you want to be in the timber and looking at the open side?

Uh, doesn't really matter because they're going to show up 20 yards away.

Really?

Oh yeah. They just, it's like magic. They just all of a sudden go, there it is. Make sure it passes. Dude, I'm so sorry. Make sure it has no cubs. But we've called them in, wind is blowing directly to them. They don't give a shit.

Oh, really?

They're coming, you know, and they can't see very well. So it's like, oh my God, it almost scares you. And they're just watching. Eh, eh. Get on the gun, shoot them as they're walking, walking into you.

I really want to do that. I really want to, like, I want to kill one. I want to kill one with my bow that I called in. Which sounds sporty. But yeah.

About Boys, one of the About Boys has a great film of doing that. They see one and blow on it, comes running in and they kill it like 15 yards. There's, yeah, there's just something weird about the 30 to 40 minute mark. My theory is that they're just like, okay, fine, I will make the trek over there because this is easy protein. That's my theory. I don't know if it's that deep.

And in my mind, it's like, I mean, your kids scream for like enough minutes and you're like, I'm gonna kill you. And like, you just run over there, you know?

Yeah. If they're like, kids are screaming at each other and it's like, let them figure it out. And eventually you're like, shut the fuck up.

You know, you're really good at calling whitetails. You're really good at calling bears. For some reason you can't call elk, but we'll work on that. I don't understand it. You know, like, not anymore, bucko.

Look at I figured, dude, I made, I actually, I changed so much. We talked about this earlier on the last time I was on your podcast, but I stopped desperation calling for elk and started being more tactical. Spot them, figure out where the herd is, get in, put the bugle tube away, half calls, move to where they're going to come downwind of you and Man, worked like a charm. So don't always do the thing that's not— stop doing the thing that doesn't work. That's all I had to do. I did 12, 11 years of making the exact same mistakes going, this is impossible. And then, uh, actually listened to your advice and, uh, got it done, dude.

Call from in front of them.

Yeah.

All right. So people want to check out your new series, go to the YouTube channel, subscribe. To subscribe to Don't Exist podcast, or sorry, YouTube channel. And Dylan's Eats, um, new show coming out every single week, guaranteed.

Yeah, got 3, 3 episodes. Um, yeah, and I want to— this is like, uh, the thing I want to focus my entire hunting. I only have 4 or 5 days to hunt for myself for deer this year, and, uh, This was like the greatest joy of my hunting life, was hoping to get new hunters into this lifestyle because I know what it's done for me. You know what it's done for you. Yeah.

You should do like an off-season version where it's like, you know, some just training, shooting, stuff like that. So like Yeah.

Put that into the episodes. Like, we started filming in, like, July. And, uh, yeah, I can barely get people to watch videos when animals are dying. I don't think anyone's going to want to watch me shoot, you know? But no, there's— this is— I hope— my, like, hope is that this becomes, like, yeah, the biggest thing I do all year. Eventually we're flying people in from overseas. And yeah, dude, that's what I want to do.

Famous people like Matthew McConaughey is going to want to come hunt with you.

And then my dream is to take like my favorite comedians hunting for the first time. I could do anything. So I really need to guess.

I feel like that should be— yeah, we're gonna take Theo Vaughn deer hunting. Um, exactly.

Like That's if I could do anything, like that's my ultimate dream. So if there's any comedians randomly listening to this, come hunting with me, man. It's going to be a good time.

It's going to be a free hunting trip because, you know, he's, he's got his work, work his way up to the famous guys.

Yeah, but I need sponsorship help. So I need you to watch this thing that I've poured years of my life into.

In fact, if you just like turn 6 cell phones onto the YouTube channel, subscribe them all and just like hit play for a few days, it'd be be great.

Yeah, yeah, we'll figure something out. But, uh, yeah, it's called The Rookie Season. I'm just so proud of it. And, uh, yeah, please watch it. Um, and yeah, dude, come, come hunt whitetails with it. I'm gonna turn you into a diehard whitetail guy like me. And, uh, oh, bear season, I'm very excited to get the watch out and actually That's it, dude. I did my preliminary stuff. I need to update it. I need to figure out how the Onyx— I need your boy David to call me back.

Yeah, well, David needs to call me back because I haven't seen him all day. So I think he was up all night working on some stuff. So I'm actually got to go. Me too.

Waving away for you.

That's good.

Tell him hi for me.

Will do.

Thanks for having me on, man. I appreciate you. Sorry I was coughing through the whole thing. Hopefully AI, your AI editing software can Fix that. Oh, fat. I had the cold sores on my lips once again. I didn't get cold sores the fun way. Um, just my lot in life. Uh, I have a fever, so we'll leave it at that.

Cheers, buddy. Well, you know, your day's gonna get better. Buddy, appreciate it.

It can't get worse, that's for sure.

Thank you, Cody. Cheers.

Appreciate you, buddy. See ya.

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