How Squirt (Kenneth Play and Wednesday Martin)

And I'm so excited for this episode. We are talking about squirting. So welcome Wednesday Martin.

Thank you. I'm happy to be here.

I'm so excited to have you and welcome Kenneth play.

Thank you for having me on today.

Thank you guys so much for making this happen again.

I'm so sorry I made a sleep. No, I don't know. The last time I slept nine hours. I guess I was thinking of, like, how hard Kenneth made me come the last time I saw him and my body just turn into a giant sleeping pill.

Amazing. Well, I love that Is an amazing way to kick this off. We have gotten so many questions about squirting. Squirting is a huge part of my first coming story. And also squirting is how I found out about Kenneth, because when I was leaving recording Wednesday's podcast, Kenneth was coming in next to give you a squirting hands on tutorial.

That's right. That's right. You guys were our podcast guests on the same day. Wow. Yep.

And that was back in the days when we could podcast in person and touch each other and give each other squirting tutorials. So ever since I left that day, I was like, oh, this needs to be an episode and I need to meet Kenneth and I need to talk about this. So I'm so excited to finally meet you.

My pleasure. I've been a fanboy since I saw you on Netflix on Sex Explained.

Shut up. We are mutual fan people then. This is so exciting. And to think we could have met that day.

Can you believe what a difference a year makes?

Such a difference. But we were like ships in the night. And I was like, if I do. If I didn't have other stuff to do today, I would ask to stick around and watch because he gave. He gave you your first squirt.

Did. Which is such. Which was such an interesting experience and such a big deal for me. Right. Because I just thought, well, like, I'm in midlife. Like, I probably don't have a lot of more novel sexual experiences in terms of my own body up my sleeve. Right.

Like, I kind of left to do.

Yeah, I kind of thought, well, I know my own body. You know, I grew up with the mom who taught me the right words for everything. I'm pretty open to sexual exploration. I write about sex and I just thought, I doubt there's really anything big that's gonna happen. And then along comes Kenneth play.

So it was an exciting experience for you, obviously, because you didn't think that you had any. Any new sexual debuts. Left. Kenneth, how was the experience for you?

At first, when Wednesday invited me to the podcast, I thought she was kidding when she said, I want you to make me s. And I'm like, haha. Like, you know, like a punt, you know, I mean, I've been. I've been interviewed before about the topic, but I would never imagine before, like.

On stages and like.

Yeah, yeah.

On videos of people. Yeah, on video, but never on a.

Podcast, never on a podcast, and never as a serious and beautiful podcast as Wednesday's podcast. So I was like, you know, I never thought I'm gonna score the New York Times bestseller live on a podcast with video. Yeah. Video.

Dreams come true.

Yeah, dreams do come true.

And, you know, if I could say, like, what I love about you, Kenneth, is how game you were. Like, if only Remy could have been there to see the look on your face, Kenneth, when I was like, okay, so are you ready to go? And you looked at me and you said, wait, I thought you were kidding. And I said, no, we're gonna do it live in the studio and with.

Video and in, like, a podcast studio. Like, this isn't a private studio. This is, like, one where you, like, rent space in a. Like. Like there were glass windows. Like, did you guys border up the windows?

Not really.

Oh, my God.

Not really. Like, you know how people are always from office building to office building staring at each other? Yes.

Yeah.

For some reason, I don't know. I don't feel like a lot of people even paid attention. Everybody was just. We were kind of blase in the studio.

And also, you were, like, on the floor, so, like, maybe you weren't, like, window height. Like, they'd have to, like, look in.

Yes. I mean, I thought the people a little bit above us might look in and say, like, what's going on? But, you know, pretty soon, I was just so swept away. Okay. We did do one thing, and I believe that Kenneth, being himself, may have suggested this. He said, you know, in the studio itself, where the producer is, Are you comfortable with that? And I said, yeah, because they have to watch me. But he gave me the idea, and I just said, I only want women.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

In here for this. And so we had a great producer. Her name's Joy. Joy. Yeah. It was so appropriate, Kenneth.

Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting mix of conditions. Right. You have a little bit of, like, the good kind of anxiety where it's exciting, so you get a little bit of sympathetic arousal and. And also, like, trying to create a comfortable space. So I think that beautiful dance between the two system is what makes, like, a good memorable experience.

Wait, so you showed up totally unprepared and like, I know you usually have like a kit.

Yeah, I usually bring all my, like, gloves and lubes and would start, like, ask when, say some like, intake questions and, you know, things I should know. And then we did that like, sort of quickly. But usually I would spend a little bit more time and. But I. It turned out really good. So I was really, I was really lucky that, you know, to be in that, to kind of do it live. And I was a little nervous because it's like, you know, if I bomb live, it's recording. Yeah. So there was a little bit of that anxiousness. But I thought about, like, why I do this job anyway. It's never really about my, like, it really is not about my ego. A lot of times that a lot of straight men would be like, oh, I want to make her squirt. And then it becomes like, this is thing that I could do to you. And from all the training and learning that I've been doing for a really long time is helping people access their own pleasure. So if I. Whenever I'm in that state, I'm not going to do well anyway. So it was much easier to tune back into Wednesday's pleasure and her experience. And then that helps me navigate what.

Are the intake questions. Because I've had a tantric massage, so I've had that like sitting down, having a conversation before and being like, are you comfortable if I'm going to do this and I'm going to ask you every step of the way about this? Like, is that kind of similar? Like, what are you usually.

So those are container boundary settings and make sure that people know their yeses and no and what they want to explore and what is edgy and what is not edgy. Also, we take a, like a more lengthy sexual history because that informs me a lot about the person's. You know, I ask questions like, when did you discover sexual pleasure in your body? From like, first time masturbating to your first sexual experiences. So most of the highlights and the most negative time that people might experience because the time informs the body and the narrative that people form around sex. I also assess, you know, figure out what really arouses them and turn them on or what are some other inhibitory things that put their brakes on or trust. So then I could, I could properly do like a sex ID on that person and then figure out how to like, solve this puzzle. It's Kind of a little bit. Playing detective. Yeah.

I mean, it's like, obviously you have to do it for your work, but I'm feeling like people should just kind of do that with each other anyway. Like, it would be really good if instead of being like, ooh, stop that. That actually is a trigger for me, like, during sex, like, before, like, you have a thing being like, you know, like, something has happened to me before, and, like, I. I don't know. I'm not good at articulating. This morning I smoked a lot of weed and my cotton mouth isn't crazy.

I think that's such a great idea, though, because consent, as Kenneth often says, and as her friend Gigi Engel often says, yes, Gigi, yes, Gigi, yes, Kenneth. They both. They both kind of taught me well. Consent should be in enthusiastically affirmative. And about consent shouldn't just be yes or no. It should be super soaked about pleasure. Pleasure. Yeah, super soaked.

Super stoked. Super stoked. And yeah, no, and it goes, like, both ways. Like, so you get there and there's no gloves and there's no lube, but you're like, I am. I'm down for this. Like, enthusiastic consent. Back to do this.

Yeah.

We send Joy out, I assume to.

Get my assistant Jane, who had, for a time, the weirdest job in New York. And she was so always so game.

Okay, so Jane went out to get Duane Reade.

She was like. She just looked at the situation and she's like, I'm going out to Duane Reade right now.

Amazing. Yeah, yeah. Was there a towel handy?

We got a towel. Yeah, yeah. Squirt pad.

Yeah. Whitney, my podcast co hostess, built a little squirt pad.

Love, Whitney. Yes, Whitney.

And being herself. She also did a whole, like, Instagram story about the setup with the squirt pad. Only Joy in the. You know, I gotta say something. I feel a little bad that I didn't let the guy producers be in there. Like, that would have been fine. It would have been good for them.

I mean, maybe you could do it again, but it was your first time, you know, like, you want to create a setting of your own.

But yeah, Jane just scurried out and got Kenneth his equipment.

That's very great.

Supplies.

This is kind of jumping ahead to use your questions, but we already mentioned squirt towels, and one of the biggest questions is, like, what are squirt towels? I can use what are recommendations of sheets? Or something like, how do I not have to do laundry every 24 hours?

So I love teaching that kind of sex Hack. If you are lazy like me, using a puppy pad or the hospital pads underneath a towel is the most. It's the easiest because you can stow the towel on the hamper and then the pad catches everything. So that's easy. But always have a mattress protector underneath. If you're fancier, you will get a. Like a Liberator blanket. Or you could buy the version.

Buck angel mentioned the Liberator once, but.

They are the same. You could get their same one on Amazon as a picnic blanket. It's the same. It's the same thing, but just blank.

Oh, that's cozy.

And you just put it under one sheet. And so, like, you will have to wash one.

You have the one sheet.

Or get a really big puppy pad for, like St. Bernard puppies. Get a few.

Yeah, yeah. Extra, extra large puppy pads with a towel is the easiest and lowest level of cleanup. You know, that you could.

Okay, so was there a puppy pad purchased? Oh, no. You had a squirt pad.

We didn't have it together like that.

What was the squirt pad called? Because there is a squirt pad that exists. We've talked about it before. It is called the Companion by Anna Rae. And I believe there's still a promo code. How come? I'm not sure. But yeah, those are really tiny, though.

Well, okay, I believe the squirt pad was a towel. I think that Whitney just went to Joy and said, do we have any tea towels?

Okay, okay, okay.

And some paper towels as well. And, you know, it was so nice that she did that because then it was like, it gave me something to focus on, like, oh, this is where I'll be. And I completely trusted Kenneth, so. But yeah, I think a squirt pad is an important thing.

And I'm not gonna pee on the rug of this podcast studio.

I mean, I didn't care.

Someone's going to record it in an hour.

I didn't care. It's not my podcast studio. No, I did care because actually, then it would have been on Joy. And I have to say, I love our podcast studio where we record cord. But, like, they were kind of. They were totally game, but they were worried about the. The squirt liquid. Like, there was a lot of. Joy was obviously hearing a lot about how they did not want me squirting all over things. Oh, the squirt pad was.

Well, I'm curious about that because we also got a question. We got a ton of questions about. Is. Is there a smell? Is it pee? I've. When I've smelled mine. It smells a little bit like pee, but not like it's like super diluted. Like what would you say, Kenneth?

Well, I've been very fortunate to work with Dr. Janna. So we have, we are currently running the world largest survey, scientific survey on squirting. So squirtingsurvey.com and so we have, I have some hypothesis the science is inconclusive. So we know from different studies say different things. So just say if your bladder is completely empty when you enter a sexual situation, meaning no pee in the body. And there's two types of squirts. So one is the liquid coming from the bladder and one is coming from the UV sponge. But that also. That's so in the skleen's gland. On a urethral sponge you could milk like, like a skim milk like substance that is more like a whitish liquid, but usually is a teaspoon and a little. And a tablespoon worth of squirt. Yeah. So there are little pinholes around the pee holes that sometimes could drain out that way or drain into the urethra that comes out and then there's liquid.

Are they big enough to see?

You could see if you really, really look. And some people, but they say check.

Out my skin later.

But one study say half of the women have it, they're hypothesized as a female prostate. And the liquid that you see on most porn or like the gushing one, that liquid comes from your bladder. So the hypothesis that we, the hypothesis that we are coming up with is that during sexual stimulation, their overall engorgement of your genital area includes your bladder. Your bladder will fill up a lot quicker then you were just making regular urine or just to make it more maybe as a way to protect it, maybe is to fight a potential infection or want you to clean it after sex.

Yeah.

So the idea that it was filled up a lot quicker than normal situation. And those are the diluted version that most people have experienced. But if you did have a bunch of urine beforehand in your bladder and it all comes out, it only comes out. The bigger squirt only comes out there. So you could have a mix of some like peat that was already there, filled up with a more diluted version. And then it all comes out. But it picks up some of their stuff from the skleen slan, which is their like you have a little bit after like same same content as male ejaculate, like the more watery bit. That's why the study has been up in the air. But I don't think it really matters. It's like, whatever people enjoy.

Right.

Can I say if people are really nerdy and they want to know. First of all, I'm so excited about Kenneth and Jona's study because there's not enough literature up there. I did a little lit review before we did the podcast with Kenneth helping me score it. But I also did a more recent lit review, and there's not a lot of literature on it. So we really need Kenneth and John's study. But a lot of people agree that to Kenneth's point, like, Kenneth is making the point that when you start with your bladder empty, right. When you do this test about what's in that substance.

Oh, I've done these little tests on myself. I've literally gone to pee and then jack off and squirt and go pee again. Jack off and squirt. And it just keeps producing itself. So I've seen it.

So that's the control, right, that you start with your empty bladder. And then the most recent thing I saw that did an analysis of the substance said that it was. It was urea and uric acid, and then it was also creatinine. And then this stuff called PSA was found in the jack in female ejaculate. So PSA is prostatic. It's a pelvic service announcement. It's prostatic specific antigen. And that's like a white, milky fluid. And that's why.

Oh, so that's literally like a female prostate, though.

Yeah.

Right.

Prostatic.

Yeah. And that's why it's so, like.

Oh, it's a female prostate. Get to know him.

Get to know him.

Get milked.

And it's. And it's from your urethral sponge, as you said, we think, right, Kenneth?

Yeah, yeah. It. Because the little ducts also could drain into the urethra like itself, so it's not that much liquid. So the other hypothesis I have is we don't know yet. So. So to. To go back a little bit, being science nerd, the largest sample size that from all the research that we could find from the review is about, like, 400 participants. The one that we are doing has about 8,000. So we are being a total size queen when it comes to sample size.

But social scientists love size queen studies.

Yeah, yeah. So, but there's.

So does big data.

Big data.

I'm very excited. I'm getting ready to squirt.

There's two. So there's the P hole and then there is a two sphincter that controls, like, the Flow of urine. So that's one in the front, like, where the actual PO is, and then there's the one on the back of the urethral sponge. So the same hypothesis is, like, when a guy gets a hard on, right? A penis owner gets a hard on. It's harder for him to pee because the body want to restrict the flow of urine. But we could pee when we have a hard on. We just have this really awkward, like. Like. Like awkward peeing. Sort of a different sensation that I would have if I didn't have a hard on. So we don't know if orgasm or different sexual function overrides or opening of those two gates.

Interesting.

So sometimes it opens here. So the pe. The squirt did not come out. The milking part did not come out. But it drains. It drains in. Or next time you pee, it comes out. So we don't know exactly which mechanism control those sphincters. But just like, anal sex is not like men to have a cock in your butt or things in your butt. But we learn how to figure out how to work those sphincters to create pleasurable experiences. So I don't think it matters. But those are two. Control.

But you can also work to control them with your brain. Like, you could make the decision to pee with a boner, and I also would make the decision to stop myself from squirting all the time. Like, Or I didn't. I guess I didn't know at the time. But every masturbatory experience where I thought I was getting to that point or whatever, it would feel like I was gonna pee. And I was like, well, I definitely don't want to pe. So then I would hold everything back. Whereas now I feel like I can let myself squirt when I want to. I can let myself come without squirting if I want to. Like, I feel like I've gotten, like, more of a control on that.

I think that's such a valuable thing. Sorry. I'm just gonna hop in with somebody who learned to do it. And I wanna speak to Ken's excellence here and to your excellence, Remy, of just. The great thing about a squirting tutorial with Kenneth was I learned so much so organically about my body. And I love you saying that, like, having learned to squirt, you could go back to those masturbatory experiences and kind of change them up a little bit or understand what you had been doing before. That maybe not only stopped you from squirting, but may have stopped you from having an Orgasm.

Yeah. Just like alleviating the mental block.

That's big. That was a big thing that Kenneth did for me.

Yeah.

Was, you know, as women were so clamped down. And this is what. This is part of what Kenneth said when with no warning, he had to talk me through everything. And I loved this point that Kenneth made is that like women especially are taught, suck your stomach in, don't laugh so hard you pee. Especially suck your stomach in, look skinny.

Look skinny.

The burden on women to look skinny all the time is one of the main things that I think inhibits our sexual pleasure.

Looking sexy during sex, just being arching your back. I've never.

Being the to be looked at is really. Can be really hot gazed upon. But it stops us from letting go, letting those muscles go and letting ourselves feel squirt. So I just wanted to hop in and say that it was so cool that Kenneth talked me through that in that way and said, stop sucking your stomach in.

Remy, your story is quite common on people thinking that when they feel that G spot sensation or you're closer to orgasm, that involuntary type of contraction start. And then so so much of sex from Emily's book come as you are is so context based. Right. So if you're thinking, I'm going to, oh, I'm going to pee on my partner, so I'm going to stop myself from doing this function, then you, you shutting down that system so you're not like heading towards climax.

Right.

So the first thing I try to notice is that if they do they have any type of inhibitory behavior. So that could be. I don't want to squirt like all over the sheet. So that's where the puppy pack. So all the activity is to lower inhibition. I want to eliminate all the things that you would think that would prohibit yourself from doing. Letting your body go. Because so much of orgasm is letting go and being asympathetic. So I figure out what you do and then somewhat involuntary like you're not even thinking about it. So a lot of people will feel that sensation. And if it feels kind of like peeing, if the technique I'm doing and then I have to coach them. Does it feel like you're like a little bit like you gotta pee. Great. So I add a little context when you feel that it's good. So change some of the value. And then when they do feel that feeling, I teach them how to override it.

So I want you to bear down.

How you bear down. Trying to push my finger out. And that usually that what that does Is that when they start feeling that same sensation, they will start feeling pleasure because they're. I mean, not to be gross. It's like you're trying to hoe in a fart feeling. Right. So I'm like. Like, teaching them not to, like, hoe in the fart behavior.

Yeah.

It's being like, let it go. You to fart. That's.

Yeah, yeah. Fucking let it go.

Let it rip.

But, you know, there's a lot of fear I think of with the whole squirting thing. Can I just say, I think squirting, like, we were talking about how what you see when you're watching porn is generally, that's urine coming out, but a lot of times it's also water coming out. Yeah.

A lot of times it's fake.

Yeah. We've been given a lot of fake visual images about squirting, and then we've been told a lot. Like, Kenneth said that squirting is somehow, like, something that a man with his prowess makes a woman do. You know, I don't know if queer women have the same kind of, like, concept about it being about the achievement of the partner rather than the pleasure of the person doing it. But I think that when we were getting to the squirt pad, one of the greatest things that Kenneth said is, like, it doesn't matter if it happens or not. This is just a tutorial for you.

This is not totally.

This is not about my ego. I don't know.

Take the pressure off if there are.

And more than that, if there are any straight guys listening, stop making squirting about you.

Yes.

Stop it. Yeah, stop it. Tell her. Stop sucking your stomach. And you're so sexy when you let your stomach do whatever and it wants to do. And whenever you let your body do what it wants to. I know I'm preaching to the choir with guys who listen to how come? But, yeah, stop it. Squirting's not about your awesomeness.

Yeah. There's definitely people who, like, came across this episode and were like, oh, yeah, I want to do that, or, I want to make that happen. And I'm glad you brought that up, because we've had so many dms from partners of vulva owners who are like, I want to make this person squirt or whatever. Like, how do I do that? And I'm like, well, the first question is, does that person want to squirt?

Yeah. Nobody wants to be with a guy who's like, I'm gonna make you squirt. Like, just listen to your language. Really make you squirt?

Yeah.

Yeah. So I love that Kenneth took that off the table, first of all, because he's just intrinsically a cool person and an organic feminist. But I just loved having that pressure taken off me, too. Like Kenneth said, this isn't about my ego at all. And squirting shouldn't be about your partner's ego. It's like a cool experience that you may or may not have. And also, not all bodies squirt. Okay? Not all women's bodies squirt. And there are some data that if you try to make yourself when you can't, that it's potentially harmful. So, like, there's. I love. I recommend everybody get a tutorial with Kenneth because he understands the subtleties of squirting everything from the other person's ego to if you don't force your body. I love you, Kenneth.

Well, so. And I've read in some places, all squirting comes from the G spot. And I'm like, that cannot be true. Because every squirt that I've done has always been with a clitoral suction toy. And these skene glands sound like they're on the head of the clitoris.

No, it's around the pee hole.

Oh, sorry. But they're in the front. They're not inside?

No, they're inside. Around.

Near your urethral sponge above the G spot.

Remy, we need to give you a lesson in the female erectile network.

Wait, no.

Up around your urethra. Part of the female erectile network.

Isn't your urethra under your clit hood?

It's.

It's further up in your body, and it's. Your urethra is covered in spongy material. That's erectile material.

I have a diagram that I just made for my book if you want to see.

Yes, thank you.

And I. One second.

So a lot of people call it the extensive female. The entirety of the female sexual clitoral anatomy. But I like to call it the female erectile network, because the female erectile network, when you use that denotation, you're also talking about the urethral sponge that a woman. A female bodied person has, and the woman's perineal sponge.

So I made my own. So that's the urethral sponge.

Nice clip.

And that's the finger position that I use. The pressure.

Wait, okay, hold on. I don't.

Can I show another one, too? That will be complementary to Kenneth's, so that. Because this one's in color, you see right here, this little green Thing. That's the urethral sponge.

What are those? What are the vestibular? So this is way, way.

It's just above the G spot.

There's the legs of the clit.

Right. And I think then Kenneth's illustration will let you get into the details more. But I just wanted to show you the overall thing about what the urethral sponge does. And your urethra is up inside your body, and then those vestibular bulbs are under your labia.

Okay, okay.

And then you see the perineal sponge back here is also erectile tissue. That's exciting. So I just want to say it's so tricky. As somebody who's written about and studied female sexuality for the last six years full time, I mean, I know Kenneth feels the same frustration that I do that it is so hard to find imaging like this that helps those of us who have a urethral sponge, for example, know and understand where it is. Like, you and I. You and I, Remy, have been doing sex podcasts for years, right? Yeah. And this. This imagery isn't available to us. And I remember talking to the doula and pleasure educator Latham Thomas, and the way I learned about this, I didn't even know that my clit was extensive. I thought it was just what I could see. And she said to me when I was interviewing her, she said, Wednesday, you know how you go into the ob gyn and there were all those maps of the reproductive system, and you look at it and you're like, yeah, I get it. I know this system. The ovaries, the uterus, the this.

We don't have that for this.

And she said, why don't we have maps of the female pleasure system?

Only discovered the clitoris in 1998.

Well, we knew about it before, actually, but there was the great forgetting. But she said, why are there not maps of the female erectile network? And I just think Kenneth and Remy and we should just form a movement of, like, getting maps of the female erectile network in every doctor's office, in every dorm room, in every cafe.

Yeah. Like, the fact that I haven't seen this is crazy. But I will go back and say that I still agree with myself. The Skene glands look like they're at the front.

They are at the front. They're at the. At the front. The sponge behind us.

Right, right. The sponge. I know that the sponge is behind because in Cosmo, they've been telling you to grab for the spongy part for your G SP since, like, they opened the magazine.

Yeah, since the 70s, right?

Yeah. That's why I have to make my own diagram because it's not that available. So I'm like, let me just. Let me just hire someone and draw it exactly the way I want to teach it.

And by the way, Betty Whipple is an amazing sex educator. Method. Yeah, she. She taught us a lot about this. Like you said, like, she was probably one of the people talking to Cosmo back in the 70s when they started writing about it.

Yeah, her book is amazing. Yeah.

Okay. So would you say that all squirting comes from G spot stimulation?

No. There's one study that, that, that debunked that. So.

Yeah. Her name's Remy Casimir.

This is, this is what I think for first time non squirter, the likelihood of a G spot stimulation has a. In my anecdotal experience, but it has a higher likelihood for involuntary version of this happening. But once you gain voluntary control, it's just like a reflex that you learn how to do. Same thing. When people get better at anal sex, they just know how to work with their sphincter 1 and 2, so they have easier. So you could. Any type of stimulation. You don't even need to touch your vulva or your vagina at all. You could squirt. It becomes more like a water gun. What is a trick that you could teach your body?

So hands free squirting is a real do it.

I have people do it at parties all the time. And they kind of like this is their party trick. But you know that when we did their squirting survey, what's really important to us, we wrote our mission is to not over glorify it. And then the other side is to destigmatize it. Because there's a lot of people feel terrible about wetting the bed or whatever the case may be. So we find some. We find a way to look at it. This is just a phenomenon that happens to a lot of people. And if you like it, enjoy it. And if it happens to you as a norm, like it's a human function. So you know, a totally normal function.

So are female ejaculate and squirting the same thing? Are they the same liquid? Is it the same function?

I think the technical definition is any explosion of fluid from your genital area doing sexual stimulation. But there's two distinct type of fluid that comes out. One is from the skin splan and the other one is from your bladder. And then the bladder one is depending on how much urine that you have in there and are very little of it. So that's the two type of ejaculation that comes out ejaculate.

Where does discharge come from?

That I'm not sure.

Vagina being your amazing self cleaning vagina.

The pussy cleaning itself.

It's just the most amazing self cleaning thing. That's why I get so pissed when people say, oh my God, if you're not smelling fresh down there. What the fuck are you talking about? My vagina is cleaning itself every second.

There would just be some days that like I would be like super wet walking around. I'd be like, oh, I must have been horny today. But no, but it's not always been dirty.

There's not, there's not always concurrent, you know, it's not, there's not always concurrence like that. Just because you're wet doesn't mean you're aroused. Just because you're dry doesn't mean you're not aroused. And if you want to know about your amazing self care cleaning vagina. I don't know about Ken, but I love Jen Gunter's book, the Vagina Bible. It gets into all of it. And can I say one other thing that about the term female ejaculate, which Kenneth explained so well. It's just that ejaculate just means whatever it is that you're ejaculating technically. So it's like kind of an umbrella term. And I can't wait for their study about what's actually in it. But the milky stuff people think is prostatic specific and antigen ejaculating is just.

Something coming out with force. There's literally a passage in Harry Potter which was like, get out. He ejaculated.

Yes. You'll be surprised when you read like an 18th century English novel and you think, wow, you know, there's not going to be anything. And then people are just ejaculating.

Can I just pop in with a quick fact check around cervical fluid. Basically when you are ovulating you have cervical fluid and the sperm, it's the perfect like ph and everything for the sperm to travel up through the cervix and up, you know, through everything to.

Get to the egg.

So the discharge, some of it when it's extra like egg white, is cervical fluid.

That's why your discharge changes through the course of the month if you're still reproductive. Right.

So cool. Okay, good to know. Okay, so back to squirting and Wednesday's squirt. And Kenneth's making Wednesday's squirt. How, how long did it take?

I think I was kind of a tough subject because. Okay. And I think it had to do with the fact that I had never squirted before. I had been conditioned my entire life to suck all those muscles in. I'm a person who. When I was. During childbirth, I was so afraid of shitting during childbirth. And my obstetrician was like, oh, my God.

Wait, I. For a second, I thought you meant, like, when you were a baby, you were scared to shit when coming out. I was like, dude, you've been neurotic forever.

But, you know, probably as a baby, I probably was, because I am that neurotic.

But, yeah, no, I've. I don't even know if I'm going to have children. I'm scared of shitting during childbirth.

Don't be scared. It's just a hallmark of your awesomeness. If you do, it just means you're really bearing down. But, like, so all I'm going to say is that Kenneth really had his work cut out for him with me, because on the outside, I'm very uninhibited. And, like, sure, we're going to do this. We're going to do this live. We're going to record this squirting tutorial, and if it goes well, it goes well. And if it doesn't, it doesn't. And I don't mind, like, being on camera without anything below my waist, and. And. And it's fine. And we'll. We'll slap it on YouTube or whatever. I was fine with all that, but Kenneth always is dealing with layers of repression. Right. So I seemed like I was totally fine with it, but conditioning can be really deep, so I thought it was really important that he talked me through my conditioning. That was, like, the first part. And also, he's like. He said he couldn't do his intake questions with me because he didn't know that we were just gonna do a squirting tutorial. So he really skillfully.

He knew. He just thought it was a joke.

That bitch isn't gonna take off her underpants and lie down on a squirt cat. But he did a really great, like, spontaneous. It seemed spontaneous intake interview with me a little bit. He asked me if I had had any sexual trauma in my life. And I was. I'm one of the few women who can answer, like, no, I did not. And he just did so many things to put me at ease. And I'm. I'm saying this to everybody, not just because I want to talk about how awesome Kenneth is, but I think this is A great thing to just do for your partner in general before sex. He asked me if I had any sexual trauma. He asked me if, if I was a person who spent my whole life sucking my stomach in. He asked me if I felt comfortable. If there's anything else we could do to make me feel more comfortable. Did I really want to do this and could I just unburden myself of the fact that I was. There was any pressure on him or me to make it happen. And it should really just be like a fun, pleasurable encounter that you.

So leading up to even getting on the floor was quite. That was a really important time. No, but it was like 20 minutes or.

Did it in like five.

Oh, five. Okay.

Would you say it was about five minutes?

Yeah. To get. Well, I. From, from my memory. So what I usually do in a session when I'm like helping my client explore their pleasure in a somatic sex ed session, the first thing is to get them into calm, relaxed state. So usually start with some general body massage and touch and just more grounding. Like a lot of pressure and just getting the body into that state because our head could be over the place. Wednesday could be thinking about the window. Like, you know, is it going to record or whatever is running through her mind. So I want her to get back into her body lean sensation. So general massage, a lot of pressure throughout the body. Once I feel her body relax a little bit, I know she is in her parasympathetic nervous system, meaning that she's could get aroused. So I want to feel the turn on. Now that was tricky because we didn't really talk beforehand and I didn't want to get too sexy. I was like, I don't know what the professional boundary would be. So that was really tricky for me. So I stay a little bit more clinical and I just use my hand for the talking bit, you know.

Okay. It's because. So is it usually like sexier with clients?

Like not sexier, just more erotic because like you trying to get them into the state of arousal. Like I'm not like you know, milking a cow. Like that's not.

Right, right, right.

So it has to be in that context. Although it's one way touch. Right. Like I'm touching my client for their.

I was going to say, but you're never getting off for.

No, no, but I have, I have to find my, my, my client's arousal. So in Wednesday's case, is this like sort of professional, you know? You know.

Yeah.

And anyone wanting. Yeah. So I'm trying To figure that out. But I go like, let my, let my hand do most of the talking. I'm just trying to. So once her body starts to respond.

And then I don't put feel like that relaxation.

And then I start touching the vulva. More like a little bit of a tease and building up some anticipation so more arousal could happen. Then I start touching the vulva slowly and trying to gauge her.

It's on her back at this point.

It's on her back. I'm on my knees right on the floor. She's on her back and I'm stroking and massaging her vulva slowly. Like tease her lips, not touch your clit like in the very beginning. Just to wait for that moment when I feel like the clit is yearning to be touched. Because it's like that feel.

It's like, put me in coach, Put me in coach.

I think that's one of the things I love teaching my audience about, how to read that erotic cue. Because sometimes nonverbal, like the body is moving towards it. And then I start touching, touching.

It's the enthusiastic consent from the clit, from the body. There's nothing worse than somebody like just like shoving their fingers in you or whatever. Like, like djing you without like it being asked for. Like, and your body does ask for it.

And a lot of it is also a tactile feeling. I'm feeling for engorgement. Like the changes from like a non aroused to aroused state. So that depends on the person and the circumstances. So I feel her vulva is getting more engorged. I could feel her clit getting a little bit bigger. I could look at it too. And then I start stroking the clit and trying to provide some sensation because touching the clit externally is one of the most reliable way to build pleasure. But I have the system. So the system is that you start touching because you're just guessing. So I start to calibrate where I know it's not too little, but it's not too much. So I slowly ramped up the amount of sensation, trying to find the perfect like the pleasure sweet spot. And then as her body start to respond. And then I did that for like two to three minutes. And then I wait for that welcoming. Like, is it okay for me to put my finger inside you?

Yeah.

So I check in kind of a safe port system. And then I start putting my finger in. And we tried it, we tried it a little bit, but I noticed that every time I start giving her more of intense she spot sensation, she would cramp down involuntarily. So I was like, okay, so I can. Yeah. My job is not to push, right? My job is not to push. So. So I just basically pause for a second. Wednesday, I go like, you know, do you feel that sensation? I go, like, when you feel it, that's good. Like, that's a good sign. And then I want you. What I want you to do is bear down a little bit when push against my hand.

Yeah.

And I coach it until I know. I know the vagina is due. Like, it's contracting those muscles. Then once we figure that out, the calibrate between the both of us, then I did the more intense technique, which is sort of overrides it. So if she just bear down a little bit or just relax, it normally happen. That's when the squirting happened. So I would say the calibration and when I say how I was moving my hand is that my palm was rubbing her clit, but my pad on my index finger is pushing up against her G spot. And my fingernail, the front pad on my finger is pressing down towards her anus. So what it does is that it creates a range of motion when it's up and down, but the palm is rubbing her clip. So that's creating more pleasurable sensation.

This sounds like fucking dessert. I am. Oh, my God.

It was dessert. Even on, like, dingy wall to wall carpeting in a squirt?

Yes, especially on dingy wall to wall carpeting.

It was really well done.

So.

But wait, I have a question for Ken. Okay, wait, so every time you started massaging me, I started, like, with my uptight routine.

I felt it in your. I felt it in your vagina. And then I was like, okay. So then I. That's why I stopped it and coached it a little bit, you know, to have you more relaxed. And then also once you gain a little bit of your involuntary control, then you feel like you're, you know, we're doing this together, rather than I'm just doing a thing to you. I think that was important too. There's also one thing that I learned that I find very useful with, with my student, is that they have to understand it's context driven. So it could be the same 67 degrees outside if it's the first day of spring. Oh, it's so warm. Everybody's wearing a T shirt running around. But if it's summer, 67 degrees is so freaking cold. I need to put on a jacket. So I need to make sure that the sensation I'm providing is a sensation. But how she interprets it is more important. So I always want to navigate that interpretation.

How do you know that the squirt is about to come? Like, can you feel it?

I don't want to mansplain the Wednesday's experience, but from my perspective, I feel.

No, I'm saying, can you feel it?

I hear the sound. So they're usually a sound. And I love their. I've been studying so many things about satisfaction, like what happens in our brain. So there's a specific feel to it when it's done right. So there is this feeling that I get and the sound I hear, so I know when it's coming. Then I know, like, how much to push forward and going back. And that's why it's so fascinating. It's such a mastery to, like, pick up those cues.

Wait, what's the sound? What was the sound that my Chrissy was making?

You hear this squishy sound. You hear the squishy sound. And then I feel a specific type of, like, relaxation and involuntary contraction that I feel it on my finger. And when I get it right, because when I tried it, I tried it, like, two times before. We did the third time. That's when I was. What can happen is that when you. When you're like, vulva and vagina really relaxes, there is. There's a softness to it. And then just like when people with trauma, they're there that involuntary spasm, that. That. That contraction is like foaming from fear. The other one is like, relax, I'm into it. So it has its own language. I mean. I mean, she has her. I mean, the vulva has long language. And then I'm just, like, feeling the level of contraction. So when it's relaxed, it feels very relaxed. Just like you're giving someone a massage and they're flexing their muscle. I don't want that muscle flex. So when I feel that soft belly of the muscle, then I know I'm on the right track. Yeah.

Okay. And then Wednesday, how did it feel for you?

Just felt like just imagine having a vulva, vagina, clit, whisper.

He was just.

Yeah, so imagine that. And I felt like Kenneth really knew my body almost as well as I did.

So just in that short time.

Yeah. And when we got to that point. Well, first of all, I really enjoyed, you know, like, the vulval stimulation at first and him taking his time with that. And then after that initial resistance, when I did just relax, I could feel that it was a really different sensation than what I had been feeling before. And then my brain did kick in with all this. Like, what if it doesn't work? What if I fail? What if I pee? What if I fart? What if all these bad things happen in my mind? Bad things. And so that was interesting. And I think I remember Kenneth saying, like, after a while, Kenneth said, we're going to switch to the involuntary method now. Okay. Remember that, Kenneth?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just giving you a more intense sensation that kind of overrides the reflex. So if she just relax enough. And that's the one that is in the like 95, 96 percentile success rate because I've been obsessively studying, like, which.

Okay.

Which technique? It's the personal trainer in me, but that usually works. So I'm just like, if I could coach correctly. And then this technique, it works.

Most of the time the coaching was a big deal how you were talking me. Talking to me the whole time.

Yeah.

It wasn't too clinical. Like you kept saying, Kenneth, like, I'm being more clinical than I would usually be. But it wasn't. The coaching was just a nice blend of, like, encouragement. And I remember you saying things to me like, you know, thanks so much for trusting me. I just want to make you feel good. That's the main point here. The coaching was good. Great.

And do you have on your website, Kenneth, like, tutorials where you are being more clinical to when you are being more sexy so that people can like, imitate those different methods? Because I know a lot of people are going to be trying to.

Yeah. I'm partners on my sex hacker pro course. I talk about all the cueing and what to say and then more, you know, when you with your lover, it's going to be a more erotic context.

100%.

Things like, there was a moment when I was like, should I say, you know, your vulva look beautiful that you know, like those things. But then I didn't know in the right context, you know.

Right, right, right.

So, yeah. So in a normal lover. Lover connection then that you would say those things that, you know, people want to feel beautiful. They want to be wanted and desire and all those things. So how you say those things and be able to coach is very important.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. And it's good to kind of have a script for people who don't feel super comfortable, even if it is with somebody that they've been with for a long time. Like, these are really good phrases that you can look like, oh, I'm here for you.

That's a good one. I'm Here for you is such a good one.

Yeah.

It says a lot. And it doesn't.

Like, it just takes the time pressure off of it, too. And it's like, right?

Because I was like, oh, my God. Okay. What clit Haver has not at some point in her life, life had somebody head down between her legs, and the whole thing in her head is, I'm taking too long. He hates this.

He hates this. He hates this.

I'm taking too long.

Yeah.

So I loved hearing. I loved Kenneth saying, like, we have lots of time for this. I'm here for you. That's a great.

And so Wednesday, you've had orgasms before, like, right? When was your first one?

I think I was 11. And I was, like, masturbating, you know? Amazing floor.

She loves floors.

I love floors, I guess. And I had known since I was a kid how to have an orgasm or what felt good to my body. So I was able to tell Kenneth, yeah.

And so you. You already knew things that you did. Like, you already knew what the feeling of orgasm felt like for years. Was it a different feeling? Like, did the squirt happen first? Did it happen coupled with the orgasm, did it feel different than the stuff that you'd experienced before?

So here's the interesting thing. I wouldn't describe what happened to me as an orgasm. Okay. It was more like there was a squirting sensation that was very pleasurable and almost a little painful. Like, at certain points, I was saying, this hurts, and let me do this another way. But when I actually squirted, the buildup was like, as if I were having an orgasm. But I don't know that I had an orgasm. But I certainly.

It was still a release.

I squirted, and it felt so, so good. Because going back to masturbating since age 11 and being in midlife and going back to that point about thinking that I didn't have any more tricks in my trick bag, I was just skeptical that there could be a new sensation. And there definitely was.

Okay. Yeah. See when I do it? So the first time I came, I squirted first. I knew I squirted. I gushed everywhere. But I also knew that I had not come yet. Like, I was like, there's water everywhere, but you still have more to go. You haven't had that, like, ugh, I've melted feeling. And I looked at myself in the mirror, and I bared down. I kept my toy on, and then I got on the floor, because we love a floor. And I came again, and I squirted Again, a lot, A lot, a lot. And I, since I've done it, like, I'm like, yeah, it feels good. It definitely feels like a release. Is it the be all, end all? No. So like if anybody is out there and they're thinking like, oh my God, like this sounds like, like the whole thing is amazing, you know, like just being cared for, like, this is amazing. Like if the squirt doesn't happen, like, that's fine. You still had a really nice time. Like all of this sounds like a nice time. And like, even now when I do hold myself back from squirting, like, whether it is the stigma or I don't want to do laundry or whatever, like, I. I don't dislike my orgasms when I'm holding back. Does it feel just a little better to like let everything go if something is waiting? Yes, please let yourself go if something's waiting. But like again, it's not the, the be all, end all.

That's one of the biggest. One of the common myths are that squirting is orgasm. So when people are seeing in porn that they. They put this like orgasm hierarchy over and it's definitely sometime accompanies it and sometime it doesn't. But there is definitely like different sex fact that you could. People could try. So if they want to, they want to couple that experience, they could be edge for a really long time and they're like dying to come. And then you do the squirting technique. So they kind of happen simultaneously, which is another blended version of that experience. But that's up to the person's prerogative, like what they. How they want to enjoy it. Some people squirt when they have anal sex as well. And it just a whole. And some people squirt most of the time when they have orgasm. So it depends on their individual.

Can I say something that started to happen to me after my squirting tutorial with Kenneth is that immediately. Well, first of all, I squirted and like there wasn't a lot of liquid, but there was definitely liquid. And Kenneth explained to me sometimes some people, when they squirt, they suck the liquid. The liquid is going in. And so that was interesting to learn, but there was definitely like this.

Wait, what do you mean? What does that mean?

So it. Your water could rush out, right? A little bit and then the sphincter could close and then it just kind of sits in the urethra. Like it depends on the second one close back. It's a hypothesis that some goes back in, it might not drain In. In. It might stay in the holding, but it depends on when does the two gate open.

Okay.

How much? Yeah, so sometimes you could have an.

Orgasm if it stays there like that.

I don't know. We don't have enough data. Yeah.

Yeah, I can't wait.

I think they just pee it out. Yeah, I think people just pee it out.

Ken, are there good studies? I mean, the lit review that I did was about the chemical composition of female ejaculate. Are there good studies? I doubt it. On women's subjective experiences of squirting or will yours be the first one?

I think mine is the most comprehensive one because we talk about people's relationship with stories, included a lot of stories. Like when this first time happened to them, did they have a positive association? Did someone teach it to them? Did you meet that swinger guy at every swinger party that go around and squirt women because it's their thing. So like we try to figure out what the narrative is, is and what we actually, we've been very ambitious with the survey. We want to collect all the data, get all the story, and then we kind of want to do exhibit on all their data and the story because it's a little bit of like a vagina monologish. There's so much to it, you know, and people have different relationship with that experience.

It's going to be epic when that comes out. Because women, we talk so much about squirting again as like the hallmark of male prowess. But like I love just talking about the female subjective experience of squirting to recenter what it's about for the person it's happening to. And what I can say is that after I you, you could not get more of your money's worth if you do this any, any of Kenneth's classes. Because once I was trained to do it. First of all, first of all, after it happened, Whitney, my podcast co host, just took a video of me. I was so relaxed. I don't know if I had ever been that relaxed in my life. It was like, you know how you feel so deeply, like the molecules of your body have been reorganized when you are by the ocean sometimes.

Sure, yeah.

Or babies always fall asleep in boats. It was as if the particles of my body had changed and I was. I have never been that relaxed in my life as I was after that squirting tutorial. That was one thing that was really interesting to me. I slept. I think that night I might have slept for 11 hours. It was really profoundly relaxing. And then I don't know if I told you this, Kenneth, but, like, afterwards, the things my body learned to squirt. And now it knows how to do it.

And now it knows how to do it.

Kenneth has created a monster. I will be walking down the street, and, like, I remember right after my squirting tutorial, I had, like, prolonged eye contact with somebody attractive on the street. Squirted. Sometimes I would go, yes, sometimes I would go for a walk in Sag harbor and just have a sexy thought and just squirt.

Just squirt.

Going for a walk here in la. Just, like, walking along, having a sexy thought. I will squirt. Kenneth taught my body how to squirt. He. He helped me teach my body how to squirt. Better said. And now it happens. And, you know, I think it was happening a little bit before Kenneth, but part of what you taught me was to tune in that it was happening before. I would be like, why did I just pee? And it was squirting. I was like, why would I have a sexy thought and then, like, pee a little? What is wrong with my body? And Kenneth reframed.

They had already been happening.

They had been happening a little. But I didn't know how to, like, fully be in that moment.

Yeah.

I didn't know how to leverage those moments.

Yeah.

And now I do. And it's, like, just a complete delight to realize, like, we think of guys as like, oh, my God, you just, like, got a hard on. In the most inconvenient moment. I will squirt. In the most inconvenient moments. Not a ton, but enough that I have to go home and maybe change my underwear.

I'd have to change my whole pants.

Would you have to change your whole pants?

Yes. Like, that's not even an option. I'm like, okay, you're wearing diapers then. Because I, like, if I was just, like, squirting in my pants, it would.

It would be a situation, I guess when. I guess when Kenneth and John is study comes out, we're going to learn about, like, amounts that different women squirt.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because you squirt a lot, Remy.

Yeah, man.

You know, I have a hypothesis. Kenneth and Remy, tell me if this makes any sense. I have a hypothesis that younger women are better at it, and the reason is that they grew up being told that it's part of their sexual repertoire. Whereas for me, it was, like, off the freaking map.

No, no, no. I. I just. I mean, maybe I'm not a young woman anymore, but, like, I disagree. Hoard because I just remember being in college and there was a girl hooking up with the guy I was also hooking up with. And then I found out she was a squirter from somebody like. But they were like ew. Like it was in an ew context. And I was like, oh good, I have that over her because I don't do anything.

How long ago is that?

College? So like 2011 or. No, 2008.

I mean, I think thinking about squirting and the culture has shifted so much and since. That was 12 years ago, right?

Yeah. I'm not a young woman anymore.

No, you are. You're forever young. But I guess my point was that squirting has entered the consciousness of people for good and for bad. Fake representations of it, real representations of it. I'm sorry that that happened to you and that there wasn't enough exceptions of it when you were in college.

Yeah, yeah. But it's fine. I mean like happy for growth, stoked on it, excited that we're finally doing this episode to teach other people how to do it.

You know, this, this, this might be controversial to say, but part of why I teach it like a personal trainer. I think this embody education is really important because you are teaching people how to use their body. Like I've been a personal trainer for a decade teaching people how to squat. You can't really teach it, only like looking at a diagram and show you in text on how to do something. So I went out and make a video course and teach it in the context that I'm showing somebody in a real world demo. And I think this form of sex education is really important. And if we only associate like that sexual experience and romance has to be coupled together and you can learn about how your body work and what feels good to you, then we're all kind of shooting this block. So I wish there's more room that we could put a category of somatic sex education that is more celebrated because a lot of the client that I work in and I help Pamela Matson at the back to body retreat, like I've been traveling around the world, probably over a thousand plus experience like that I had with different people. And most of the time is that what they learn from their body, they bring it back to their partner. It's not like us, the practitioner have magic hand. We're really just teaching people like this is what your body could do and this is how you navigate yourself. And then you could then developing the communication skill and go like, oh, I really like it when you touch Me this way or a pressure feels better here. I want a little less fiction. I don't like my clit touch directly. Like I think those things are super useful. So I hope that that happens.

No. And I, I do think like it a lot of people. There's such a pressure when romance is coupled with sexual learning because it's like, ugh, I'm now embarrassed with this per. Like I want this person to perceive me in a certain way. And so it can be tough like while you're trying to learn and be perceived at the same time. And like that hands on experience from someone who is not there to judge you, is not there to love you. They don't care about like your relationship with your siblings because they're not thinking about a future with you know what I mean? Like it's really important work.

I taught a lot of couples too. I love it. The men actually they're like oh my God, finally somebody is teaching me how to do the thing I want to learn anyway but no one could really show me literally. And because it also matters on whose body you touching because there's no like there's some generalization that you could say that a lot of women higher percentage of women prefer this versus that. Like all the data on omgs but you still need to figure out the partner that you're trying to please. So when I could help them navigate they go like ooh. They feel way more confidence because I could like do a little show and tell and I help them coach them. So that's why I like the mixing of the personal training skill and the sex education is really fun combo for me.

Yeah, no, I do want to talk about your background like because it is so interesting and you have been called the world greatest sex hacker. Like can you explain what a sex hacker is and why you started doing this.

To me? Sex hacking is finding really efficient and effective way to achieve some very difficult sexual experiences. So I love collecting all the different methods from like Tantra to Kinkster to the latest neuroscience research and figure out how to approach apply some of their like like I've been very lucky talking to James Faust. So Dr. James Faust study a lot about their the dual control system that Emily Legowski wrote on the come as you are like the inhibitory excitatory but there's certain tricks to like lower inhibitory and certain trick to increase excitatory and then do my hands on experience. I love like okay, so you could put maybe use a vibrator on very low. Put it like once the person is relaxed, put it very low on the clitoris and then you start spanking someone. So you have a low, so you feel relaxed enough. So you get aroused, you get turned on. Because now the scene is set up. You are excited because you're about to be spanked. Someone who likes spanking and then mentally spank. And then as you elevate they're spanking, there's like a moment where you want to engage their mind completely. So I want you to count out the next 10 spanked I'm going to give you. So that turns off all the other inhibitory stuff and gets you super excited. You're getting spanked heart for 10 times as you count it out. And at the 10, I turn their vibrator from one to four. And then there's just enough sympathetic arousal to kick off an orgasm. So you could kind of combine all those like neuroscience actual techniques, how to do those things and start inventing your own. Whatever turns you on.

So consider yourself hacked.

But, but it's really amazing. I remember I also run a lot of like sex parties and like, like erotic events. Like I used to help house of yes. Run this party called House of Love. And you know you have people are in party party mode and there'd be like a Sibian there. And I have this game that I go like, let me throw some neuroscience in coaching people how to sit on a Sibian. So you give them the control and you tell them, hey, I want you to. So today's game is really fun. You get to be extremely selfish for two minutes. So they could turn off like people looking at them and they just focus. And then I just count the last 30 seconds of the two minutes. And I would say that like maybe 8 or 9 out of 10 vulva owner would have orgasm there because of the counting. Because they just turn off that 30 seconds and then so orgasm doesn't really, I mean, not that you need to rush to orgasm. It doesn't take long. It just takes the right condition. So I look at like a seed that needs the environment to sprout. So I love all the sex hack to create that environment. Yeah.

No, and there, I mean a sex hack could be a sex toy. It could be a psychological thing. It could be, I mean even hacking yourself into being comfortable and setting the stage. Oh my God. Yeah, I love it. And you started as a personal trainer, so you've, you've, you've been working with bodies for a while.

Yeah, Same shame too. You know, people coming in feel like they're broken. This Must be something wrong with me. Why am I always like overweight or whatever the issue is, and then coaching them with a growth mindset and then really kind of like deconstruct what's holding them back and then what behavior needs to be adapted so it's like, it's so similar to sex. So that's why I love kind of break it down in a more nerdy way, but then have actual real solution to apply to their individual struggles.

Mm. I also, like, on your website, you're like, the first thing you need to know about me is that I'm not a porn star. I have an average sized penis. And you're like, it's not, it's not. It's that same thing we were saying before. Like, it's not about me and how great my penis is. It's what can I do for you?

Yeah. And I can't believe I make a living now talking about my average sized cock. Talk about it so much. But yeah, it's been fascinating. And thank you for people like Wednesday writing amazing books that inspired me to do my work and all the stuff.

So that's awesome. Have you always been comfortable with yourself sexually?

No. I was deeply sexually insecure. Like crippling sexually insecure. As an Asian immigrant, I thought my average size is never going to be enough to satisfy anybody. I thought, like, they gotta laugh at me at a sex party. Like, that's the thoughts that runs through my head. And I was painfully shy not to. And then in my, I thought if I become really fit and become a personal trainer, I have more value to give. And I realized even though I could get really fit, I still could be sexually insecure and incompetence. So it did not make any difference. And you know, like, people talk about big dick energy and like small dick energy. I think confidence is the big dick true. Big dick energy.

Yes. Right?

Yeah.

And what I realized is that no matter what I do, if I never learn how to be confident in the bedroom and always come with, come to my partner with that energy is never going to go well. So in my late 20s, I decided like, hack my sex life like I did with fitness, like how to learn how to gain muscle and lose body fat. And then I went on this rabbit hole and then next thing I know, I kind of squirting was the first thing I figure out. Like, I was obsessed with it. And then I find out this is like over glorified party trick. But then people start asking me to teach it and I go like, I was, you Know, I never got thought I gonna be a sex educator. So on one party event, they asked me to do a tutorial and I taught it like, like an acro yoga class. We have 15 couples laying on a beautiful hotel setting. I'm going like, oh, my God, I can't believe I'm doing this. And then I taught it like, like a peloton class for squirting.

Amazing. And then everybody, come on, everybody.

Yeah. All right.

Turn that clit up to 15.

Yeah, exactly.

Now pump it and pull it and move your elbows. What's that thing? Press, press, Bear down.

So you know what's really fascinating is that you have a look at your.

Butt in the mirror.

Everybody could get synced to the same rhythm. Like, everybody could get like, this collective flow could happen in sexuality too. And I can't believe when I, like, show the, like, plot the final technique, it turned into a fountain in Vegas.

Like, oh my God, like I was.

Like looking at this thing and like, I can't believe I taught like 15 people how to do it. Live, like right in that moment.

Oh, my God, like little geysers.

Geyser. Then I'm going like, oh, now this could be a career. And then I decided to do it the best.

How many ever.

Wait, Okay. I am always like, so proudly like, okay, I have made like, like upwards of 600 vulva owners have their first orgasms without touching them. Question for Kenneth. How many. How many squirts have you induced? Touching? And then how many squirts do you think you have induced just by teaching?

Well, I probably have over a thousand. Like my personal experience between lovers and professional setting. And then I have about 12 million view on Pornhub. And I have like 5,000 plus students now in my course. So a lot, I would say squirting all over the world, but it's not squirting. I love teaching. Squirting is just like one thing.

It's just one facet.

Yeah, I love teaching people how to unlock sexual pleasure that they didn't even know was possible. And that's what's really fun.

No, it is amazing. I just think. I think a lot of people think of squirting as the final floodgate because, like, that is like, you've unlocked yourself. You've let yourself get to that point where like, the stigma's gone and like, you're. You're free.

Yeah, but it's different still.

Not the be all, end all.

I think getting someone into a trance state having like a 90 minute orgasmic effect experience where there's Multiple orgasm in between this whole thing. But when I think. But to me, the most beautiful part is when you get the arousal right, like meaning the context and whatever turns them on real. Like they really like their pussy. Heart and Brain is all firing at the same time. That's when it's magical. So I love finding that combo.

Oh, my God. Amazing. I'm so happy that we've all come together for this event.

I know. I just want to say that Kenneth, probably since you taught me to score it a year ago, I've probably squirted 200 times involuntarily since then. So just to get those numbers out there that Remy's curious about, add that to the numbers and thank you.

And we haven't really talked about Wednesday's work enough at all, but Wednesday is so brilliant. She doesn't just get squirting tutorials done on her. And I will have said your thing in an intro, but one of the best anthropologists out there right now and highly recommend reading her book, Primates of Park Avenue, which we have alluded to on a past episode. Yes, we did.

That one's about motherhood. And Untrue is about sex. And I have to. I have to do a new edition of Untrue, because Untrue does not have How Come, and it does not have Kenneth in it. And no book about female sexuality can be complete without the how come podcast and can and Kenneth play. So I'm just gonna have to go back to the drawing board with Untrue.

Maybe we'll just.

Yeah. And updated edition.

Another little. But I. I've been meaning to write a little book, so will you help me with that, Mom?

I will. I will, honey. I'll help you write your book proposal. We'll do it together.

Besides introducing me to Kenneth, Wednesday is also. And being a fantastic human being, Wednesday is like my social media mom for when I am spiraling out of control and I have too many inbox messages. She'll just send me a little blurb and be like, you don't have to get to it right now. Answer them in a live if you feel so moved. And suddenly I'm not stressed anymore. So this is cute. It's like you have. You removed my stress, Kenneth? Removed your stress.

And you've given Kenneth.

I hope someone's doing it for you.

Very fortunate. Yes.

Who? Sex hacks Kenneth? I don't know, but I hope the sex hacker is getting all the. All the love and sex and joy because he brings so much of it to all of us. And can I just say, you are right.

Aren't you married to two people?

I am in. Yeah. I'm engaged. We're supposed to get married during COVID So is Karen and Geronimo and I. So we proposed to her together on Halloween. Yeah.

So cute. And if you haven't seen the video, you have to see it.

I need to see it. And you guys are. Are open.

Yeah. Super poly. I'm super slutty.

Amazing.

Yeah. I think all three of us have two different degrees of adventurous nature. But it's been really amazing for both of us to love her together. And I'm turning 40 next year. And she also wants to have a child. I'm not on the baby train yet. And he wanted a baby from yesterday. It's been a really, really interesting way to negotiating having a family and making it all work. So it's cute.

Oh, my God. You guys are both the best. And so interesting. And I feel like. Yes. Like there's so many more things I'd love to talk to you both about. And I think I'll. We'll have to have you back.

Maybe.

For a little Patreon something. Would you guys be open to that if we have more questions for you?

Yeah.

Okay.

100%. I'm always down to be with random me and Kenneth. Always. In any context.

I would love to give your audience a 50% off to my course too, so they could use their coupon. How come and oh, my God, all uppercase guys. So, yeah, please enjoy it.

This is the best day ever. I love you guys. Thank you so much for being here and sharing your wealth of knowledge. Where can everybody find you online? Kenneth.

Kennethplay.com and most of my handle is Kenneth Play as well. I do want to have a super quick plug on Wednesday's book. Like Untrue is so important because it taught us one of the most valuable lessons for men who love having sex with women is don't be boring in bed. Like, boring is what kills. I love that book about that part. Yeah.

Amazing Wednesday. Where can everybody find you online and your books?

My book Untrue is about female sexuality and you can find it wherever you buy books online. You can support an independent bookstore and order it that way. And on social media, Twitter, I'm winsdaymartin. And on Instagram, my Instagram account is constantly disabled.

Constantly.

Constantly. And thank you guys for helping me get back on. It's Wednesday Martin, PhD. But if that's been disabled and you can't follow it, you can follow Rwednesdaymartin.

And you can do Wednesday's amazing podcast with our friend Whitney.

True Sex and Wild Love is the podcast that I do so people can tune in, that's on, you know, wherever you get your podcasts, and it's, have a listen to True Sex and Wildlife. Kenneth has been a guest, of course, for our squirting episode. And Remy has been a guest on True Sex and Wild Love. So that's just proof we get the same day.

Same day.

Honestly, do you remember that day, too? There was a lot of liquid. I came in crying, and then you healed me.

You remember you were crying. I can't remember why, but I. I just.

Somebody had been mean to me, and I came in crying and then I left dry. Whereas Kenneth came and you were dry and then left you wet.

So, bookends, I fell in love with you that day. Remy as well as Kenneth. I fell in love with both of you on the same day.

I do have to ask this question to anybody I've had a sexual experience with and anybody on this podcast. Kenneth, did you finish?

Yeah. It's amazing. Thank you.

Amazing Wednesday, did you finish?

I mean, can't you tell? Yeah. Yeah, I can.

The afterglow is real, you guys. I finished too. And thank you so much for coming. And we will see you guys next time on How Come. Goodbye.

Bye.

It's not you, it's me. I try so hard to finish. Honestly. They say you'll know when you go all the way from A right down to O oh, no I think that I still got a ways to go oh, I'm sick of this and I have got to know how come, how come, how come I can't achieve how come I can't achieve? I'm rolling up my sleeve I'm rolling up my sleeve oh, baby I believe these guests can help because I can do it by myself I wanna jizz.