Sex Expert Reveals What Women Actually Want (It's Not What You Think)

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It's time for another episode of the Next Level Guy show podcast with your favorite chuker, Ian Dawson MacKay. Next level guy is a go to men's interview, interest and improvement website where I quiz the experts to find out the hacks, tips, methods and protocols that.

You can implement in your own life to take it to the next level.

And live happier, healthier, wealthier, sexier and so much more. Today's guest is Kenneth Play. Kenneth is an international sex expert and sex educator. He went from a deeply insecure Asian immigrant to to 8 million views on Pornhub and has also been named the world's greatest sex hacker by GQ magazine. Kenneth develops sex techniques to help couples learn new ways to connect and overcome challenges in the bedroom. His newest course features over 71 videos and 12 hours of content and was described by Ask Men magazine recently as having at least one nugget of sexual learning you've almost certainly never encountered before, if not several. Teaching has been described as a mash up of Bruce Lee's mixed martial arts approach and Tim Fersey's 8020 rule. He he's worked with Dr. Giovanna Verlangova. I hopefully said that correct to conduct the world's largest survey on squirting. He's also worked with Pamela Mudson at the Back to the Body Sensual retreats for women. And he's been a feature presenter at New York University as well as San Jose State University. He's developed his life to empowering couples to close the orgasm gap and experience the best connected sex of their lives. In this interview we discuss his story sex Education, Sex Hacks, how to make True connections with Others and give True pleasure to all and how and how to hack your sex life to become the best lover and partner possible. And now let's get to the interview.

Thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it. I was really keen to get you on because I love your approach to hacking life and, you know, hacking fitness and hacking sex, et cetera. You know you're a big fan of Tim Ferriss and the 8020 analysis and things like that, but for people who don't maybe know who you are, could you just give just a quick intro about who you are and why you're so well known?

Oh no, it's still so hard for me to get used to that because I grew up so insecure and I'm probably the world's most unlikely sex educator and porn star. In fact, that I just shot a thing in London and I joke that I'm their diversity hire, but I would just, you know, I grew up really not feeling that my sexuality is expressed. And being an Asian immigrant in America, like, I feel like Asian male sexuality is so underrepresented. But I always been a very sexual person. So I decided if I get really fit, then I would become a, you know, girls would like me more. But as I got more fit and then talking to more girls, I still have a lot of internal insecurity that I wanted to overcome. So I decided to like, maybe I could hack myself sex life like I did with my fitness life. So I decided to do that. And one thing led to the other. I found a sex positive community. I went to some sex parties and I start to nerd out on this stuff. And I became a sex educator because I was really passionate about like, how do you improve that part of your life? And my message seems to really appeal to a lot of people. And I also, in that process, I also co founded a sex positive intentional community in Brooklyn. And that picked up a lot of press as well. So all of them together kind of like helped me become, you know, the things that I'm currently doing with my career.

And so you've mentioned in another interview that you were initially kind of the, you know, the analytical approach you have to get into shape and then you sort of start getting interested in sort of sex and you thought about, you know, looking at ways to hack it. Was this something that you just did for your own personal view, or did you always kind of think that there was a market, a business there? You know, what kind of drew you into? Who seen this as a potential coaching ability?

Well, when I was in the fitness industry, when someone has a fitness goal, like they want to improve that part of their lives, there's not like stigmas that you go to a gym, hire a trainer, go to a spinning class, you know, join CrossFit, doesn't matter what people do. But when it comes to sexuality, not only that, it's really hard, hard to find a good sex education that is explicit, to the point and useful. On top of it, there's a whole stigma. So if you have to learn about sex, then there's something wrong with you or you're not good. And then we have this like really bad myth about sex that sex supposed to be this innate talent that you have. So either you born really what like, you know you're good or you are just terrible at it. There's no way to improve it. And we have this over emphasis on just your penis size and how hard you could, you know, how long you could stay hard and how, you know, how long you could last. That determines a, you know, what makes a good lover. And in fact that those things are creating a huge orgasm, orgasm gap for women. So women are not satisfied with the sex they're having with most straight men and, and yet we value the wrong thing. And then when I, when I looked at their, when I want to improve my sex life at that time, I was like, this shit is terrible. I can't really find a lot of good stuff because my dyslexia reading is very difficult. So it's really hard to translate books like you know, she comes first into practical like practice. So I was trying to figure out how to like deconstruct that into like a learning modality that works for me. And ironically, when I got introduced to the whole sex party scene, watching people have sex live was the best way that I could have learned. And I was like, maybe I could start doing that. And that's how the whole sort of the desire for sex ed became a passion. And then I got obsessive with how people acquire, you know, sex skills like the way that I did for fitness.

So if we were to sort of start looking at, in terms of, you know, people listening who maybe want to start improving their sex life, you know, start hacking their attraction, hacking their ability in bed and all that sort of thing. Is it used, would you believe the philosophy that, you know, to be attractive you've got to find yourself attractive? You know, you've got to love the person you are. You know, how do you work with somebody to actually get them into acceptance of the mindset that they deserve better sex, you know, that they deserve to have more sex, better quality sex.

That is a, that's a, that's a tough question to answer because you know, if I think everybody is worthy of love, but it's also, it's based on people's like their behavior and who they are in the world. So I don't think that like people have born the right to pursue it, but I don't think people built actual self confidence by not doing anything. So the way that I've seen people who built like their confidence with their body and fitness is by engaging in a lifestyle, right? Not necessarily where they at exactly so you don't need a six pack necessarily to feel good about your body. But the way you take care of yourself is important. So when people are investing in educating themselves with their sexuality and feel more connected with that, feeling more comfortable with their sexual self, I think building those are actually true confidence. Rather than you think, you know, rather I deserve it or not, you know, I think the worthiness is there, but I think confidence is earned. So it's a little bit different. And you know, so it's, it depends on the person I really think, because.

That'S, that's the problem. I find a lot of people, it's like, you know, it's trying to get through, through their head that, that they do deserve to feel love, to have good quality. You don't have to just put up with it, you know, that's, that you can get true connection with partners and that even if it's, you know, just a bit of, a bit of fun on the side, as I say. But what do you think's the worst? Like, you know, what do you see most guys you work with going wrong when, you know, with these certain clients, are there standard things that you notice that they tend to do? Is it the way they're approaching it? Is it the way, you know, are they in their head and not giving their, with their body feeling it? You know, is it lack of enthusiasm, not giving the pleasure to the woman? Because I really love your, your kind of focus. It's on the woman's pleasure. And that's what I found when I looked up a lot of sort of sex packing and stuff. A lot of it was on what the guy gets. Like the pickup community. There was very little on, you know, and I'm always been in my work. Like I love like pleasure in women, but I love being like seeing them enjoying it. And too many guys approach it from their own physical needs, you know. Is that the problem with a lot of sex education today? It's guy orientated. We're not thinking about giving it to the pleasure, to the partner.

Well, I, I don't think men are like inherently selfish when it comes to sexuality. I think one of the biggest myth that we have about sexuality that when we went through this like Victorian era when you know, sex is like this behind closed door thing, doing the different waves of feminism, it became sex is natural. So natural becomes as something that is not skill based, that is not something that you grow and learn, like have a growth mindset about it. And when they, when they approach sex, what we talked about earlier they overly emphasize on just like their penis size and you know, how hard and you know, how long they could last rather than, rather than their mutually satisfying pleasurable sex. You know, the basic concept of their orgasm gap where majority of women who engage in their first time hookup normally don't orgasm. And that's kind of sad, right? So what I learned from like, you know, if I want a, the quality of my sex life to really improve, if I am having sex with women who are getting tremendous pleasure out of it, of course they want to fuck me. It's like when the restaurant is delicious, people go, so, so they have to. So if you are, if you're there and you don't, you don't have the ability to provide the pleasure that you want to experience. It's just a bad bargain. And what I have learned in my life is that the more like satisfying partner that I have, the better my sex life. So, so I think that equation is what to focus on is that if you could give, if you have the ability to give, if you have value in the world, you, you tend to get back the same value, if not more.

So how would you begin working with people on this? Because a lot of people would classify their sex life as normal or vanilla. And you know, is that a dangerous thing of giving it a term? Because, you know, it's more about the persons involved, their kinks, their histories, you know, how the connection they've got between them. Do we do more good or bad by putting a label on it? You know, surely there is no such thing as normal sex.

Yeah, I mean the reason that people seek for normal is a sense of acceptance that they don't want to be like some type of freaks and outlier. That they feel like their unique desire is rejected by society or people. So that that desire to fit in is very strong. It's a sense of belonging. However, what we fail to I guess as a society understand is biology loves, you know, variability. Like we all varies in, you know, just like our body. Some people are powerlifter, that marathon runner. You look at everybody's physical faces and height. There's such a large range of distribution and yet in sex you're trying to fit everybody into one class. So nature loves the diversity and yet we try to fit sexuality into a very narrow box. And usually it's based on like click rates on popular porn site. Now because that's what most people see as sex, right? You know, what you see is kind of gives you this, you're mind blind by what the diversity Is, you know, I was very fortunate and lucky to have a pretty like abundant sex life and also do do this professionally. I probably been with more than a thousand people. Is so diverse. You know, everybody's slightly different. Just like everyday life, people prefer different food, they adapt to exercise differently. So the dangerous part is normal. And when you are not normal, then you think you are a freak or you like something you know, no else would like it really. Just like any given bell curve distribution, you know, there are some people are more on either side and a majority of people fit in the middle. So embracing a unique, Your. Your unique expression and go towards what is what drives your arousal and what's pleasurable for you is it will give you a satisfying sex life. And I think most people seek for, you know, they would find a partner who appreciate and love their unique, unique sexual expression.

Because this is why I love your stuff. You actually look at it from a deeper level than just some of these other sites where it's like lift your legs up, push up, cushion under. But you know, it's. You actually look at it from a very kind of deep psychological level, you know. And I'm really impressed at the way that you kind of fixed clients emotionally and mentally as much as physically. But do you notice when you work with your clients, is there a difference in their attitudes, you know, in like their approaches to sex, their acceptance to sex in the different cultures, races and things like that? Or is that a myth that, you know, certain cultures are more repressed towards sex where some are more outgoing? Is that a kind of myth that doesn't hold true when you work with clients?

Yeah, I mean, there's definitely this, you know, we are a combination of nature and nurture, you know, so there's no argument there. Like there are some people that are born like that. More conservative culture works better for them. And there's people who are like, you know, a more sensation seeking. So which is, you know, like how, how your body respond to dopamine. Like you get a higher reward system. So then you have your baseline who you are, right. How you're born. And then depending on the culture you live in and your, your, your social group, right. Like what does your immediate family to your peer group to your society, to your religion and all those things combined with your own habits, like how you do things form your particular like unique sexual identity at that moment. So it really depends. Like a lot of times when I work with client is more about deconstructing their history, their value system, right. What they believe is good or bad and their desire what turns them on and then also their conditioning to kind of give them a, a perspective to see where they really want to go. But ultimately what we find in research and all the things I've learned is helping people be more of themselves. So I don't teach my client to be more like me. It's more like I'm just a guy. For their own self development. Do a lot of like here's some, here's some science and technique that could really help. But everybody will find their own move, you know, within that structure.

I love that, I love the way you look at it. It's, you know, I could only find outpouring of like people just so grateful to you for what you do and how you've opened them up into this kind of environment. But how do you start working with somebody and deconstructing the, the bullshit, the feelings, the childhood issues, the emotional baggage, you know, how can you start working through that to start getting help? You know, helping people find what they truly desire and what really excites them, you know, what really turns them on?

Well, this, this. Well there's two side to this. First, I'm not a sex therapist, right. So I think what sex person, what a sex therapist does is extremely important and that's like dealing with you know like trauma. And what I worked on is more on the coaching side, right. I'm like taking someone and help them improve on what area they're in. And I also, also I'm work with Pamela Mason who is one of my mentor who runs back to the body and one those on all those women's retreat. When I get to do some of the hands on sex education stuff, what I have find is that I explained the foundation like the science of it, right? So like in our, in our nervous system either we are like inhibiting ourselves, inhibitory system versus it excites us, arouses us. So if you, if I help them identify some of those belief and thoughts that does not serve them. I just tell them as long as you choose to think this thing is not going to turn, you know, it's not going to turn you on, right. So what I, how ultimately how I deconstructed, I just tell them here's all the things that you kind of have to put together in order for you to experience the most pleasurable sex that you could feel that you could possibly experience and see where they are blocked. Because a lot of time is not to help my client move faster but it's to tell them to Leave like to. To not press on the brake when they want to experience good sex. So it's like finding what really like what really drives them and learn not for them to pledge a block themselves. And then learn to be more mindful in their experience and be more technically skill, you know, on. On experiencing those things or giving. So it depends on if I'm talking about helping someone to be a better giver or a better receiver. Those are two different skills.

Because that's really, really impressive the way that you do that. And I love that you have that sort of support with like your fellow coach to kind of work through the different sides. Because this is where I was a bit unsure of where your coaching kind of did how much it went into the psychology sort of side of things. And you seem to kind of open people up. And it was interesting the two pronged attack that you have for that. When you're dealing with their clients, you must get a lot of data points. Do you get a lot of feedback from women on the types of things that men do that they don't like, that they wish they did more? Do you see a collective grouping of data that shows majority women want more aggressive sex or they want men to be more vocal or it doesn't just depend on the woman and her attitudes.

Before I jump into that which I have a great. I don't want to lose that question of a great answer for it. On the last question you asked me is, you know, there is, there's not like I just don't. There's a difference between telling people like, like every sex educator tell you to communicate. Communicate, communicate. Right. Like it's important for communication, but they don't teach the person how to do that or like specific hacks to. To make that happen. So I think what makes their coaching effective is that when you could help your client identify one of the issues. So maybe this person is distracted like this or back disregard. Being distracted in your pleasure is what, you know, causing the issue. Then I give them mindfulness drills. Maybe they're focusing on their breath. Maybe are they doing like a spanking, a BDSM that like hack their nervous system to paying attention. So it's not just like here's what's wrong, but here's the thing that potentially could help you shift that really quickly. That's where the hacking lies. And as far as your second question, when it comes to what are the trends that people really experience is definitely different for every woman. Right? Every couple, their unique situation. However, thanks to some of the latest research like from OMGS where they interview 19,000 women to talk about preference. You would know like for example, that maybe 36% of women would prefer the first 2 inches of their, of their near the vaginal opening on the upper right wall, that they would respond more likely to respond to it than if you go on the left and a little bit lower. So then you will, you will sort of like help deconstruct or like learning your partner's preference much quicker by going to the highest probability stuff first. So to me it's sex hacking is more like card counting when you're playing poker, when you're just betting based on percentages because, you know, it's more likely. And also. So that's like the trial, it makes a trial and error process a lot faster. I think that's, that's how we game the math part. So it really depends.

Because that's, I mean it's definitely something that I've come across where friends have, you know, discussed like falling ex partners and it's, you know, we were just weren't compatible or you know, I wanted more sex than him and things like that. And it's, I just find it really strange that you know, somebody that you could share yourself intimately with. We can't, you know, discuss things like that. But how do we, how do you think? Is there a way that you can actually remove the ego? Like, you know, how, how can couples communicate their desires? They, you know, they want to bring another person in, they want to try new kinks. How do you even start that approach without upsetting the other person? You know, like some people tie their, their self esteem up with their sexuality, with thinking they're great in bed and things like that. How do we touch the first thing.

That is really about creating a culture where people feel that it's safe for them to communicate. So it's having the skill to kind of create that sort of culture and container to do those things. And there's, there's definitely methods and practices that different sex educator recommend on how to approach a subject. But you have to also let go some of the mis and force believe. So if you have, you know, it's about being, being, being available to absorb something new. Like you have to kind of empty that cup because you, before you could pour something in and then you have to develop a agreement between partners that I want to share something that I feel very vulnerable with you. And you know, this is how it's gonna go. And, but then you also have to have this culture of responsibility. My Feelings are mine. You know, if I blame you, then it doesn't work. Just like if you people are suck at relationship, then nothing works. So I think it's is actually educating people what type of relationship culture, right. And communication style that will enhance their sexual experiences and pleasure. But I think, you know, whatever makes people communicate well sexually would help them throughout their entire relationship. Because then you could really share, you know, and be supportive and understanding.

Because that's something I was very interested in, was the building that emotional connection that you've talked about and other, you know, and your like amazing products. You know, how do we do that away from the bedroom, build up connection. How, how do you start that debate? Like, because I would find it as I've got older, I'm probably more extreme than what some people would consider, you know, sort of vanilla sex. But there's far worse in some people's opinions than that. You know, like if you watch certain kinds of porn and things like that. But I, there's certain people I know that I would just be interested to discuss changing things and trying new things. And there's some people that would definitely not be. Is this a case that you like, you know, are you into the whole foreplay, giving compliments? You work with them outside of the bedroom?

I do both. You know, I really like the hands on part. I think that's very effective. So I could really coach because I don't only coach their behavior, but I coach their beingness. You know, like how they're being, if they're being like if they being, if they're being anxious. I could coach them to build more confident. If you know, it's like also like there's a mental state that that person is in. However outside the bedroom, I think that's really the space to really have a lot of those deeper emotional conversation. But sexuality is a, is a, is a multi layer sandwich. You know, you have their like physical part, right. Which is biology, physiology. And then you have the emotional relational context that we put into sex. So in order for it to be pledgeable, all those things kind of have to line up, you know, and there's meanings behind how people interpret those experiences. So, so I think one of the, you know, the way you brought up this question, I think one of the things is that people need to educate themselves and also role model the behavior they want to inspire in their relationship. So if they want it inspire vulnerability, right, encourage, then you are willing to be that first for the partner. So they could experience you being that way. And therefore you're able to encourage that new set of behavior. It both people are being mean and nasty and blaming, you know, then you're probably role modeling that and you can create something different. So I think there's a lot of personal responsibility that goes into it.

I love that because when I was younger, I probably didn't have the emotional ability to be open first. If we go into discussions and things, I could happily discuss it, but I couldn't go in and say, you know, this isn't working for me or, you know, there was. I always felt like I was holding back. And as I've got older, I think, you know, as people mature, we kind of start accepting who we are more. And it's a real shame that we don't get better sort of sex education when we're younger. You know, we just get taught how babies are made, but we don't get taught how to truly connect with somebody, how to be open and vulnerable and emotional with somebody. And it's a real shame in that sense. Yeah, that's why. Oh, sorry.

No, no, no, go ahead. Yeah, it's a real shame.

Well, I was gonna say it's a real shame because I love, that's what I loved about your products was because you don't just show the anatomy and you know, how to flick, tamper, etc, you actually go on how to build that connection, how to connect with a person during it, how to use vocal tonality, how to, you know, build a connection and look into, you know, using eye contact and making them feel comfortable and happy and stuff like that. I mean, your videos and products are amazing. And that's what I really liked about it was guys, we tend to go for the physical stimulation where women, they need that emotional connection. And the fact that you, you pulled both of them together so well, I mean, what do you think's wrong with sex education and the whole, you know, the way we're taught it at the moment?

I don't know if there's something like necessarily wrong with sex education by itself. I think is that most people are using pornography as sex education. Now. I am not like the anti porn person here. In fact, I think porn is very important as a arousal tool for some people. And for some is, is not like it's really the individual, but it's, you know, when you're using porn as your source of sex ed, it's like watching professional wrestling or watching the fast and inferior is learning how to drive like that is the bigger issue. And with sex education by itself, what I see there, some of Their censorship that like sex educated decided that feel like they have to censor their actual education. So why do I have to like, why can't I teach the thing that is the most natural about that topic? You know, like if I'm doing a cooking show, I'm not gonna use like, like props to do the cooking. Like I want you gonna cook. So, so, you know, when I taught fitness, I'm not gonna, you know, if I'm teaching someone how to ride a bike, I'm not gonna make a fake bike to tell them to ride it. Like, they just have to do the real. They have to, I have to engage them in the actual activity. So I am, that's why I'm so like anti censoring when it comes to sex education, because that's how people really learn. They have to see it, they have to feel it, and, and I see tremendous potential in making videos, you know, at this, at this current time, but also see a lot of potential in virtual reality when it comes to sex education. So they could, you know, they could experience it. And I think the experience, like how I did at, you know, sex parties and other other real life sex demos that I have seen, that is really transformative.

So how does this change? Or does it between, say you go to a sex party or you're with your girlfriend or wife, you know, does your approach to sex with partners change between a partner or a hookup? Or is the same kind of skills and techniques that you teach viable for both? You know, how, how do you keep something, one of them casual and the other build that connection with their partner? Do you mix it up, do you change it? Or do you want to build that connection to give the best sex? You know, is there any difference depending on the connection between partners?

I think it's context dependent. However, when it comes to even the most casual of casual sex, I think casual intimacy is important because caring for another human and what, you know, desiring mutual satisfaction is important. So you don't, you don't need to be a dick, right, in order for you to, to have casual sex. I think it's actually very, it sets a really low bar. And then the, for the, for the, unfortunately for the, the guys who is this up, it creates things, it creates experiences that women are not being satisfied, they're not treated well. So they're like they're walking away from, from wanting to engage in casual sex, even if they crave it and they desire it because the experience is not good. So I think it's a true disservice to everyone. So I think everyone deserve to be treated with respect and kindness and, and, and the other person invested in that person's pleasure, like mutually satisfying. So I don't think, I think connection is a baseline. Now. Connection doesn't mean that you are making some type of romantic commitment. It just means that you are connecting. So we unfortunately, we don't teach like, we don't teach people that much intimacy skills because we, we also in a culture where we feel like intimacy must lead into something different than what it is, you know, like they must, you know, want something more. So we don't necessarily have developed the right culture for the level of connection and technology has drive us a little further apart as well.

I love that because that's something I've struggled with as I've had one night stands, I've turned into eight month relationships. Whereas I, if I'm with somebody, I want to be with them. You know, I mean it's. Yeah, I hate this pickup stuff of oh, she's a six and oh, he's an eight and all this kind of stuff and nagging and that sort of stuff. And I just think why would you want to tear somebody down? Why would you want to just use them for a jump and go off? It's, you know, it's like you say it is the guys who treat this as like they're things to be used are fucking this up. And it's, it's obviously disgusting the way that some guys approach it. And I couldn't understand why some people kind of went, oh no, you can't let them sleep over. Oh, you can't, you know, make breakfast because they'll start falling for you and all this kind of thing. It's, and that's, it's so refreshing to see your viewpoint on that because the whole pickup industry has kind of gone way ott. I mean, what's your opinion on like pickup, red pill, all that kind of thing?

It's pretty up like, you know, I think, you know, it's, I think it's important to teach men social skills and how to be, you know, how to, how to work with a giving mating market. Depending on the type of sex and relationship you want. There's a really good book fight by Jeffrey that he, it's called Mate. So I think there's this good version of pickup up like education or like dating advice. However, like generally if you're trying to game and manipulate using pickup technique so you can manipulate and take advantage of someone, that's, that's the stuff that we trying to like change and don't create that behavior. And there's also some like myths about women's sexuality versus men, right? Like how the sex is a different. Women are more like desiring, you know, emotional connection and men just want to fucking. That's not inherently true. You know, there's, you know, women want sex like if not more than I think men, they're just not getting good sex. So if they are getting the good sex and you treat them well and not in necessarily like trying to wife everyone, that's not the goal. In fact that I think a lot of women would think any good sex they have would turn into a like a lifetime relationship as a nightmare. So it really depends on the women and it really depends on the guy. But the, the myth, right that the structure that we have set up creates that. But you know, then there is people who have different needs and desires. So we can say all men are like this, all women are like this, some are like this and some are like that. So it really depends on their, their, their, their individual need. And we also, I think this might, this might be a little bit long winded but we also approaching a different time like different point in history where you are having more of a sex positive culture. You have birth control like pretty, you know, pretty down to a science that people can manage not getting pregnancy. There's better ways to manage your sexual health and there's no, there's a different society structure where for different part of the world where you're not depending on like your, your primary romantic relationship to secure your lifestyle and your, your, your financial well being or your, your life worthiness. So as those things shift, different people would have different priority when it comes to what, why they choose to engage in a sexual activity. I think we're empowering a lot of women to enjoy sex for sex sake. So that's why I think it's such an important time for men to develop those sex skills because they could really like women are choosing to fuck you because you are a good lay. Not you know, only because you're a potential mate for a provider. So does the game have shifted?

I interviewed Alice Little. I don't know if you know her, she's on the Moonlight Bunny ranch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean she was amazing and we really got into like sort of the psychological barriers and things like that and some there's something she said about, you know, it's like women enjoy sex. You know, we have this myth where guys want it more and you know, all this, like, there's all these kind of preset. It's almost like instructions that we feed people and the codes, well out of date. You know, we forget that women enjoy good sex as much as guys. They don't want to date every single guy they go with. But it's almost like we're constantly told this and it's like a challenge to shift it off. And some people don't, and they never truly enjoy the experience of like, good sex, good technique, good like, you know, good connection, aren't truly getting what they desire. And I think that's really sad.

But it's also a good time, you know, as those things shift. I think the early adapter for the guys who are like, learning that this is how they could see the world a little differently, you know, they will be the one who's like winning on this early stage. Because if you start to see if you, you know, the people who adapt to AI or any new technology, they will be the first one to. To kind of get there. So the bar is set so low right now. So for the one who's like, like, get it now. It's like, get in now like that.

Because this every. Because I was listening to interviews with you and you know, you just sound such a nice guy and such. There's. I can understand why people connect with you and you know, you get on so well. And I loved like your Instagram because you don't just go on about like, oh, I was banging this one, I was doing this one. Like some of these other ones you actually go on to. You know, you talk about reading, like to better yourself, you talk about building that connection. Things like that. What can I, like, for a single guy's listening or guys who are wanting to improve their sex life and build that connection with a partner, you know, what would you start people doing? Is it a case of going to the gym? You know, are looks important? Should they be reading? Should we be doing more household chores? Should we, you know, try to take the stress off our partners? What's that first step that any guy can do to start betting themselves and making themselves a better man for their partner or future partners?

I think adapting a growth mindset and investing in yourself and develop the quality that you want to attract. So like, if you want it, it depends on mate that you want. You know, if they're. They're the girl that you really want, like obsessed with, like looks, then work on that. You know, it just, it depends on who you want to attract. I think ultimately But I don't think anyone would regret being great at sex or invest in themselves. Like, you don't go like, I'm too rich, I'm too fit. I'm too anything. So I think it's actually choosing to, in, like to make a commitment to take responsibility of your own life and develop the values that you. You value and work on those things. And I think ultimately when people choose to take, like, take on that responsibility, they feel good about themselves from, like, because of their hard work and their motivation and their own ambition. So if you sit at home and then don't take care of yourself, and you are angry that women don't want to, you, like, tough, you know, honestly.

Because that's the thing though. Guys are sitting there.

What is it to say?

Guys always think they could have got the girl and they could win every fight. Yeah, it's like that kind of belief. It's like, it's just safer to think that than try because you just, you don't. We don't want to harm our fragile egos, you know. So what, have you ever done an 8020 analysis on, like, how you were having sex? Were there certain techniques that you found really worked well for you? Because I think I heard you say, you know, you were trying to see what work would give you the best return for the least effort.

Definitely. When it comes to like applying the, the 8020 rule. And that's how I actually develop my, like, my course to like, I, you know, I don't want to teach general sex education. Like, here's everything, like a psychopedia of. Of sex. I just really took the 20 of the most useful technique in all the categories. So you have all the baseline skill to kind of adapt to any lovers that you desire. And that's how the whole thing is developed. Like a video game where you have a skill tree. So you could work on specific thing. Maybe you really like kinky sex, maybe you really like anal, maybe you like squirting or whatever the case may be. You just know that you have all those skills. So when you are approaching a lover, you could pick, you know, you could pick the right moves, you know, and. And there's no, like, one perfect way to do it. So I teach more of a philosophy of being adaptive rather than, you know, this works for everyone. I think that's one of the biggest myth that, you know, I'm gonna try this one trick pony thing on everybody. It doesn't work. And if it worked for your last three girlfriend, it doesn't mean it's Gonna work for your next date, you know.

Because that's what initially scared the crap out me was when after the first couple I thought I had some killer moves, you know, and then it didn't really, it didn't really work for the next one, you know, and I was kind of like, oh, what'd you do here? And I can imagine many guys have the, you know, their four, like it's like John Cena of their sex life, you know, five moves, a doom. And that's literally a doom, you know. And how, how do we start building that, that sort of adaptivity, you know, I mean, can guys do certain things like building the sensitivity of their touch, strengthening of their tongue muscles, the, you know, how can we work on this without being in that moment? Can you work on this?

Well, there's definitely like proprioception skill as in like how you move just like an athlete. Those skills could definitely develop your sensitivity touch, your ability to kind of like pay attention to what your partner is experiencing. And there's also like, you know, for the receiver when, you know, when you're touching someone sometimes you could do the perfect thing. But your partner is like self conscious about her belly, right? So she's putting her hand on her belly and she doesn't want to look fat when she's fucking you the first time. If you know how to read those body language, you go like honey, you're beautiful and then kiss her belly. That would be more effective than you having like the best sex move. So you have to kind of able to read those situations better. So it really depends. But I think the things that people need to work on is open their mind to their to how to understand women better. Right. And have the willingness to learn at not just the technique side of things, but understand why each individual is unique, just like all men are unique as well.

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So do you go from the approach of how the person's acting in the moment and do you have like a set sort of things of when I start in a certain position, I'll use my vocal tonality to, you know, tell her to call me sir and things like that. You know, do you have like no.

No, no, no set. Like, you know, I mean it might sound cheesy but you know, being like I grew up in Hong Kong and being an Asian American in the U.S. i just, you know, I love Bruce Lee philosophy and his whole philosophy is that you can drill, you can do fixed moves on everybody because it like when you on a street fight, you're not going to rehearse some movement that you could adapt to that person. So your goal is to able to develop everything at the same time. Like be in the moment and be like water, like that is this. So if people are looking for recipe, like if you know how to cook one thing and that's the only thing you could serve, you just have to. It's a probability game. Some people might love it and some people might hate it, but if you have basic cooking skills that you know how to make a range of things and you could like ask the person what they like and Cook it. So there's no one, but there is a sequence to things. Like that person have to feel safe and comfortable. They have to be in the parasympathetic nervous system in order to get arousal. They have to be paying attention. So there's principle that doesn't change, just like gravity and physics. So you have to know those things, but ultimately you have to be. Have the skills to how to follow those principles.

That's awesome because usually they teach certain moves. You know, some of these other sort of companies have seen it's, you know, when you're in doggy's tail, you lift this and move that and you think, yeah, that's fine. I mean, like I do Brazilian jiu jitsu, and you see certain people who have never rolled against an opponent. They've only drilled the technique. And then suddenly when you're in a role who was somebody who knows that technique and they move in a different way to, to defend against it. The person doesn't know what to do because they've never adapted. They've never gone, you know, they've never been in that moment. I think it's similar, you know, you're not fighting that other person.

Very similar. It's very similar to martial art, like erotic art and martial art is very similar in that, in that sense. And the tricky thing is about techniques and drill. Like, you're supposed to develop things so you could forget about them. Like, you can consciously think about, like your moves because then you're awkward and robotic. So the thing about training and developing skill is that you develop it enough until it becomes you, so you could be in the present moment. So I think the faster you learn those tools and skill, early part of your sex life, the easier for you later where you don't have to think about it.

So something I did absolutely love with your stuff, it's the, you know, it's the data, it's a flow charts. Like your, your videos are amazing. You know, when I was watching some of your new course, for example, the way that you've broken it down into different steps and the introduction and the explanation of things, you know, was this the analytical side of you coming out? You know, because you explain everything so well, that. And you give everybody the things to do in certain situations. But you also explained the theory behind it of how to build that connection, how to get them into that zone to start. And then you don't just say, do this, do that. You say, here's the tools. You know, this is your. This is about building your connection about your experience when you're working with people, how, you know, how do you work with a couple? How do you go about actually getting them into this and understanding how do you get through their initial kind of, oh, there's somebody else in the room. How do you get them into that, that kind of zone you were talking about?

You know, it's, you know, it's funny, initially you would think men would have such an ego when it comes to this, and sometimes they do, right? Like it might feel intimidating, all that stuff. Ultimately, every, like a lot of people are thirsty for guidance and knowledge, you know, like, they want to learn. So when I find the right client that who is like actually want to be better and, and there's such an appreciation from like when I work with.

A couple.

When the woman is like, oh my God, I'm so, like, I'm so glad that you're willing to do this with me. Their level of appreciation, their partner give them is tremendous. And I always tell them, look, you, you guys been married for 10 years. I don't know her body as well as you do. I'm just kind of showing you a process of how to learn and develop your own skills. Where I'm giving you, where I'm giving you the science. So ultimately where they, what they practicing and they just get to leverage my like, understanding. But I'm showing them literally how to adapt, you know, to their partner in the moment.

So when would you start doing things? Where do you have a base like acceptance of what you need to see before you would start, you know, introducing toys and sort of expanding into like kinks they want to try and BDSM and things like that? Do they need or do you want to see the connection first, the general skills, or are you happy to kind of go in and say, do you work with them? Say what they want to try and take it from there. How do you work with them?

With a client, obviously I would ask a lot more questions about their sexual history, their preference, their desire and etc. But in a general sexual situation, there's sometimes not a lot of time to get an in depth interview and all the information you do like a podcast. So I kind of broke down that communication into either the person is getting a chef special, like their preference, like, let me see what you got. That's one version. The other version is that it's a tasting menu, so it's get to pick something from their menu. So like, you know, I want to try this thing with you. I want X, Y, Z or the Dirt one is that the person who's receiving get to dictate, you know, exactly how they want things and you just like doing the thing they want. So people need to establish their preference and how they like to negotiate that. But if they don't have the knowledge to make those distinctions, they don't know how to navigate it. So the default is that nobody communicates and just a roll of the dice. So when I play with someone new or someone been with forever, do you want me to do what I think you like what I got or do you want to see what you want to learn more about what I could give or do you want to tell me exactly how you like it? Give them choices it so then they could choose.

And how would you overcome like people being jealous or upset or you know, like say you, you know, they want to go and try going to a sex party, for example. You know, how would you work with a guy to overcome jealousy or worrying about other people, you know, with their partner? That. Yeah, because that's a big thing is like when you watch sex, everybody's so open. So when you watch porn, everybody's so open and ready for everything. But there's always somebody that has that kind of reservations, I think.

Yeah, sorry, go ahead.

I was going to say is, is that something you can overcome or are they just not ready for that kind of environment?

I think, you know, I think the brain is quite flexible. Feelings of feeling, I think it's important to honor them. I think it's also important to examine them. Like is it my insecurity that's driving this experience or am I in like I'm infatuated with this girl. I'm in my current chemical state that makes me more single minded I think, you know, able to both feel your feeling and trying to examine and understand them is important. And then you get to choose what feelings are important to you. I don't think everybody needs to be open and share. Some people. Monogamy works incredibly well for some people and monogamy also could be a nightmare for a lot of people. So I think really trying to, I think the most important work is actually self knowledge and really understand yourself and then to have the willingness to understand your partner as well and see where you're compatible and where you are not. You know, when I work with couples I always say look, let's find out where your, you know, your authentic desire is. See where you guys are compatible and work on the lowest hanging fruit first. And then there's times when you kind of rotate different needs between two people. Sometimes one party get to be exclusively selfish and one party be selfless and vice versa. So there's opportunity for all those things to be expressed rather than like, you have to like everything. So just say if you like comedy and I like horror film, right. Like we could rotate or we could see an action film together where we kind of both like it a little bit. So it depends, you know, and that ratio, it really depends on the couples. But you know, when you find someone who's really compatible, you will have an easier time, just like life.

I mean I was really interested when I read that like people were talking about what they actually, you know, I think somebody wrote an article about you coming into their bedroom and doing things. And when you hear of a sex coach or a sex hack, you know, you immediately go, oh, he was standing over you going lift that leg, pull that there. And I love this kind of level that you do it on that, you know, you're not just coming out and saying this is my view and this is it. The, you know, XYZ moves to be done. And I can see why you've been so successful. You know, your approach to it, you're just the way you talk about it is so, so relaxing and soothing, but it actually inspires people. But you know, do you find the problem with things like porn, are you a fan of that? Do you think it's taught guys the wrong attitude towards sectionally just Jack being jackhammered? Or has porn kind of also helped ladies kind of see that it is. There is different versions of sex that they can open up. You know, guys can see that that thing that turns them on is acceptable now there is videos, there is an interest, there's comments there, other people are into it. It's not just a sordid secret, you know. Do you what's your opinion on porn?

It's a tough one because you know when you are how porn company develop their content is based on view, right? Like how, how popular is this thing? So if this thing is more popular, you make more of it. And there's a thing about repetition, like if you see something over and over again. So you were more tendency to think that this is how it's supposed to be done. And when we talked about earlier when we use porn as our sex education or what we perceive the world to be. Now I've been in porn, I did it like I seen it, I experienced it. It's a performance based thing. They're just doing it for the camera. It's not Necessarily for their performers experience. And that's why I was so. It was so important to me that any content I make, there's no fake orgasm, there's no crazy movie magic at it. It has to be real. And I tell my performers, I don't want you to fake anything like we're trying to teach. So I want you to show me all the awkward moments, all the, you know, all the, like, this doesn't work and tell me what you like. Rather than I supposed to be a sex God that I could read your mind. Because that's not how reality works. So I think in order to combat that, I think the future of sex education is really porn or porn like so people could consume more perspective rather than just seeing a performance based thing.

So one of the things I'm sort of interested in is when I learn new techniques and things like that, I sometimes can get stuck into my own head and I'm not actually in the moment. I'm not kind of, you know, if I'm in jiu jitsu, I'm thinking like pull the sleeve, twist the leg, you know, sit on their hip or whatever. How do we avoid becoming so, you know, thinking through the instructions, thinking through all this kind of stuff, how do we make sure that we're still in the moment but remembering these techniques, Is it just like muscle memory, just kind of trial and error, seeing how people react to it or no.

Yes and no. So the first thing is that you don't need to treat every sexual experiences like a performance. So I encourage all my students to create play labs. When you intentionally set up a time to learn where like mistakes and calibration is embrace and celebrate. So then you could, you could separate the time and doing it. And then also I think because sex we put so much of our ego and their fear of failing creates so much anxiety. So I actually talk them through the stages of learning. So the first stage is, you know, you're unconscious incompetent, you don't even know that, you don't know like you're doing something wrong. And then you will get to conscious incompetent. Then you get to conscious competence where you know you're doing something right, but you're paying attention so much that you're not in your experience, then you eventually land on unconscious competence is where I want everyone to lead to. But you do have to go through those steps. But it doesn't take that long. It's like learning how to ride a bike. You know, that's like one semester worth of like Education that I think most men would so benefit for their entire life if they just send one semester worth of time, develop each skill like one assignment at a time. They. They be like amazing lover for the rest of their life. And they is so much better than the average bro that is so worthy of their investment.

I mean talking of investments, like, I've got some stuff that I have here, you know, for use with partners and stuff. Unfortunately, when I was moving flat, my parents discovered the box and they're helping me move. But you know, like things like handcuffs, blindfolds, all these kind of toys and accessories. Are there things that you think all guys should have or is that a kind of. You have to get to know the person. You have to get that connection to introduce. You know, like for guys that are into that kind of stuff, how can we possibly, you know, in a hookup situation. How do you do that without them, without the person running a mile? Like you know, if you want to juice toys and things like that. Should guys have like a certain type of equipment like wipes and all that?

Absolutely. I think, you know that's what separates their, their, their not like average than their pros. So in that, in that sense that you always have like loops and I mean like small things, like always have tampons and like, like new underwear that someone else could wear. It's like, it's just like, it's good sex etiquette. That's like my base view. And when it comes to toys on my website I have recommended only things that I personally use. So it's assortment of things but there's some general theme like the enjoy super useful. Having a good vibrator, having good loop, having good gloves and like it depends on what you're trying to do. So if you have. Basically it's about enhancing the experience. So if you're kinky, like if I'm a guy who's kinky, I want to find a partner who's into kink. I don't want to. My desire is not compatible with that person. I wouldn't, I wouldn't like drop it on them in the moment. You know, I would go like, yeah, I'm kind of kinky. So I think when the guy embrace their own sexuality and talk about their own preference, they could find, they could really find that person that they really desire first that they are compatible with. Then they could just do the thing that they, you know, mutually desire. So it really comes down to their sort of dating mating process. But have. I think having some baseline stuff is super important.

And you know, because that's what I think I like about your stuff as well is where, you know, you said earlier about just don't be a dick, you know, and that probably covers like the after sex stuff. It's like, you know, don't just tell her, oh, get a taxi. And there's actually treat the person like a human being and you know, like make sure they're okay and just check every, you know, even if it's just, you know, you're just friends with benefits and stuff like that. It's this whole kind of thing of they can't stay over, they must go straight after. You can't offer them to stay and have a quick drink, you know, to check everybody's okay. And then it's that is these are the kind of myths that you wish would just die. Are these the things that are really hurting sex in your opinion?

I think bad behavior, just bad behavior. I don't think people need to follow one specific script. So if you have a very strong boundaries that none of your lover like stays over than like let the person know before they opt into the situation. So I think anyone's could set whatever boundary they want to have. Being a good communicator about those boundary. I think the fucked up things people do is they act all nice and they get lay and they become a dick. Like that switch is what drives people crazy. If you go like, look, I just like I'm here to fuck and then after fucking I'm gonna send you home. And she's like, I love that. Then you could just do the thing you want to do. So there's no one like behavior pattern as long as it's agreeable by two adults. Consenting adult. You are good.

Love it.

So it really depends.

Well, I've still, I've still got thousands of more questions. I mean there's. I love your approach to it because when I went onto your videos I was blown away at the quality. It's like even just each of the different styles of like auto and you're, you know, penetration and different styles, you broke it down. You explain the philosophy, but you also show the physical movements. You show different techniques that people can live. Like your quality of your products is phenomenal. It's like beyond what I could comprehend. And I was watching it and I was picking up little tips and amazing things. But you made me start thinking about sex on a deeper level, about connection. And you know, you probably you're helping make better men as much as better lovers. And that's probably the best compliment I can give you. Where do you want your products to go? What's the evolution of your company? You know, you're building an amazing brand, you've got the villa, you're part of the casual sex project. What do you want it? Where do you want to go with this? How do you want to, you know, bring this sex evolution to the world? How, how can you get your message out to more people?

I mean, I'm really inspired to normalize sex education that some as an investment. That same way people invest into their health, into their fitness, into their nutrition, into their financial future. I think sexuality and sexual wellness is equally important as having mental health. So if I could really get that message out and promote like sexual wellness and education, do their videos I make. And I think online sex education is really important because most people, the next generation coming up and the generation now will have. That's where they're, they get to access that like immediately. And so I think it's important for sex educator and content producer to provide the best content out there. And that's why I was so obsessive about like able to, you know, not just make a video with my iPhone, but like trying to show all the angle add diagram at science and all those things. Because what I, when I was in the fitness industry, the quality of fitness education is so much better, you know, for that domain. So why can't we apply the same principle and what we learn in that industry into this industry? So I brought a lot of my fitness experience into producing high quality sex ed so people could like see it from all different angle and able to learn and understand the concept and ultimately able to apply it. Because it's one thing to see it like they absorb the info. It's another thing to acquire the skills. I was obsessed about, like how to, how do I help someone acquire the skill?

I love the way of looking at it because, because it's like you're saying if I wanted to deadlift Bear or squat Bear, I just go on YouTube and there's what, 90 million videos and they're all great quality. But if I put in how to fuck Bear, I usually get pornhub coming up or something like that. And it's some situation or scenario that they've built where the girl gets pile dragged by the guy at the end. And you know, people kind of watch and go, all right, that's what women want. So they go off and do it. It's completely. I love that you're. You're building a culture on this environment that people can actually discuss it and talk about it and realize that that thing they're turned on by is acceptable. That they can ask for better quality, they can ask for better sex. They can like women can be open and about. They're wanting to just have sex and not be married to guys. And all these myths are what they are just myths. And, and you're creating that. I mean that's what I love about it. How do you start, I mean are you going to start doing more online video classes? Are you going to like, how do you keep building this? What's the plan?

I just, you know, I just released the sex Hacker pro course which incorporate all the things that I've been trying to put together. And we've been working like two years nonstop and putting everything into a sort of a system so people could learn it in the skill tree. But I think more importantly for the next year, I really want to talk to men that they see their sexuality or their self worth way more than their size of their penis and how long they could last. Because I see all this industry gaming on that side of the insecurity instead of giving them something that they could actually work on. And one of the messages that that is dear to me is that I don't want men think that they are developing the skill to compensate for something they, they think they lack. Because most people are perfectly fine, you know, like, you know, we. The unfortunate thing is that because of the porn industry you only see like, like one, a very sports a small percentage of human which has a porn star, right. And, and how the film is created. So you believe that this is good sex which is not actually not for a lot of women, right. So for the men who's thinking they are not enough, right. So they feel like, oh, they have this mindset is like I am fucked. Because no matter how I work on it, I still have what I have. So I'm never going to be good enough. And those are the men that I really want to reach because I want to tell them that it has nothing to do with those things that you were born. It doesn't matter if you are 56 or like 65 or you have a cock that is 5 inches versus 10 inches. It's really about who you are connecting with and your skill and your belief in yourself rather than there's something that's inherently wrong with you. So to me is that it's equally important for me to inspire people to believe that they're enough to invest in themselves versus just Learning a technical thing.

Yeah, I love that because you're teaching people. It's not about looks. It doesn't matter if you've got a six pack or things are jiggling, bouncing where you normally wouldn't be. You're teaching people that they can, you know, they can get what they want or what they, they desire. You don't need a six pack and be built like a brick shithouse like some of these guys in pornos and stuff like that. And I love the message you're putting out there. I mean, we've just gone over an hour and it feels like five minutes. I would love to have you on again in the future at some point, whenever our schedules can meet. But what do you want people to take from that? Is that the message that you do? You're entitled. You don't. You can get this regardless of who you are.

I mean, different than entitlement. So entitlement is that you think you have, like you deserve it without, you are without character. I think it's really important to develop character, develop kindness and develop your skills. But I think the ultimate message is that you are enough. You know, that you, that you. Hopefully you're willing to invest in yourself and, and care about women's pleasure. I think the world is so lacking that right now. And I really want to see where that's why I work with so many women in my product is. The message is like, if they are getting what they want from men, it's really a better world. I think the fight between the sexes is harming everyone. So I think if we learn how to treat each other better and there's still a lot of things to learn, you know, with my own mistakes about how to be with women. So I think, I think we keep adapting like this. Very nurturing and forgiving and empowering and loving each other instead of just demonizing either sexes is really important for our growth. And I think that's the message that we want for the next generation. Instead of continue to polarizing everything. I think uniting everybody so we could all have a good time and care about each other is important.

I love that. It's, it's. Yeah, you're right. This thing about men versus women and women rights and feminism and you know, being the devil and all this kind of crap, it's, it's, it's put this divide between men and women and at the end of the day it's, it's pointless. It, it's just self destructing us. Like we're all people in the day. And it's. That's why I get disgusted when I see racism, sexism, stuff like that. Because. Because we're creating these imaginary boundaries when we're people at the end of the day. I mean, you do put yourself out there. You know, you're very open and, you know, your products are about sex, obviously. But what's an unusual fact about yourself? I love asking this as sort of second last question. Is there anything about you that really surprises people when they hear it? You know, do you have an unusual talent, interest in something? You know, is there something that kind of blows people. People away after you tell them that you're a sex hacker? You know, is. Is there something like a surprising fact that you love to give out?

I'm actually quite, like, artsy and creative, so I love, like, cooking and I love doing, like, installation art for sex parties. Like, there is. There's a part of me that like curating experiences. And I think some people find that interest, like, unusual. But I think much because of, you know, sometime when you're a sex educator and you're making things like online talking about sexual pleasure, they think I would have such an ego about this thing, in fact, that I actually don't want that title. I don't want, like. I actually don't like fucking fans or like, girls who think I'm so good in bed. Creates this artificial pressure that I'm, like, there to, like, wow them and blow their mind, which doesn't create this authentic connection that we. That I so value. So to me is that, like, I just want to be myself and, like, express myself honestly, like, on the. On the Bruce Lee side of things, and find people who enjoy, like, mutually enjoy each other. So people usually think I would have such an ego about this thing. Like, what they find is I'm actually, like, I don't have that much of an ego about this. The part that I have an ego about is that I'm, like, very passionate about their education, the science, and not like. Like, make some false belief into reality. But other than that, it's really just like, I'm really about being in the flow of the.

Well, if I had to say to anybody listening, I mean, obviously there's been so many gems, you know, from Get Yourself, but for guys listening, you really need to go and get a copy of Kenneth's latest products. I was blown away by the quality. Just. I mean, I'm probably more like. I've experienced quite a bit different styles of sex and, you know, using handcuffs and all that stuff.

I.

And it's still everything. It just blew me away. There were so many tricks, techniques, attitudes towards sex, little movement changes, how to connect, barrier partners, so many things. There's something there for everybody regardless of how many people you've been with, etc. But this is your perfect chance. Now the floor is open to you. How can people keep in touch? But what products would you recommend? Where can people start? How can people join the casual sex movement? How can people come to these sex parties and you know, what should people expect? How come, how can you start them in your journey?

Well, they could definitely go to my website@kenplay.com and then check out the. My latest course is actually they're in like I'm so happy that I have their opportunity based on the success of the first program that all my fans empower me and gave us enough money to reinvest every dollar that we have earned to make the second one that just got released two days ago. And more importantly, you know, when what I want is that I want people to pay me when they're happy and satisfied with their what I, what I created. So as long as you, for any reason, at any time, lifetime that you decided that it wasn't worth your time, you didn't get what you want out of it, I'm happy to give you a money back without any question. But what I do want people to do is able to kind of invest and learn and see if there's something that you know, they have a willingness to try it on. There's one thing to watch it and another thing to try it. So I really want to encourage people to try it and really take on their lives. As far as like casual sex project and sex party, there's different sex party sex positive community all over the world. I happen to be one of the co founder for one in Brooklyn and the website is we are hacienda.com and you can find more about our events and party and a little bit on that is that if you want to be, if you want to experience the best possible sex in your life, I think think connecting with other people even if you're not trying to have sex with them when you're involved with a sex positive culture, it has such a tremendous effect on you. So if you're with a bunch of people who have very negative sex view, it will affect the rest of your sex life. So I really encourage people to make at least one friend who is sex positive. It will have a significant impact in the way you look at sex.

That's it for another week. Thanks for listening. Absorb it. Practice it.

Use it.

Until next time, Keep trying to hit that next level in your life.