Ashes Eve - it's almost time

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Hello, it's Ray Winstone. I'm here to tell you about my podcast on BBC Radio 4, History's Toughest Heroes. I got stories about the pioneers, the rebels, the outcasts who define tough. And that was the first time that anybody ever ran a car up that fast with no tires on. It almost feels like your eyeballs are going to come out of your head. Tough enough for you? Subscribe to History's Toughest Heroes wherever you get your podcast.

The TMS podcast on BBC Sounds. Hello, this is Eleanor Aldroyd in Perth on the eve of the most anticipated Ashes series in living memory. The sun has been shining, the pitch has been rolled and the sides have been going through their final preparations. Shortly we'll be hearing from both captains, plus an exclusive interview with England head coach Brendan McCallum in conversation with Phil Tufnell. Excitement here in Australia could not be greater.

TMS at the Ashes.

Let's start by hearing from the England skipper before training this afternoon, our chief cricket commentator, Jonathan Agnew. Steven spoke to Ben stokes.

Well, Ben, 24 hours to go. How's it feel? I guess you're being asked all the time, aren't you?

Yeah, good. Obviously, always the day before a big series like this, the day before the opening game, there's always, you know, slightly different emotions and you just want it to come. But, yeah, we're all very, very excited and desperate to get going.

Yeah. I mean, have you been sort of always fixated on it the first day of the Ashes? I mean, has it been there in your mind for weeks?

Months, yeah. Weeks, months. You know, for obvious reasons, it's a huge series that we're about to start tomorrow and there's been a lot of time and effort put into this, physically, mentally, to prepare for this next two and a half months. So, yeah, I think once we get going, once we get over that line and, you know, the battle between the two sides starts. Yeah. So exciting thing to think about.

Yeah, it is. Did you ever have any Worries that you wouldn't be doing it.

No.

You always knew you'd be fit. Yeah, no question at all. That's good. And when do you know, therefore, actually, actually know that you would be able to be fit to play?

Oh, once I got scan results on my shoulder, yeah, it was pretty. It was obviously a long break in between that end of that series and the starting. So, yeah, there was more than enough time and there was never any doubt that everything was going to go swimmingly and smoothly with the rehab and had enough time to build up and. Yeah, been 100% fit now for five, six, seven weeks.

Yeah. And you've had plenty of overs. I mean, you really are good to go, as in full throttle.

Yep.

Okay, that's good news. And that must be really good for you to have that confidence at the start.

Yeah, obviously. But as I said, like, the last couple of injuries I've had has sort of been a race against time, with the time between getting injured and then the next series. But this one was months and the injury itself was seven, eight weeks before I was bowling again. So that gave me loads of time to be able to get my loads back up and get everything in order.

Yeah.

What about the Ashes for you then, Ben? I mean, it's in a way where it began for you, isn't it, with that first hundred. Not on this ground, but the same city. Big moment that was for you. What does this whole thing mean to you?

Well, the Ashes, it's, you know, the history of England v Australia obviously goes back 140 years, and, yeah, every time, every series that I've been a part of, whether it be here or back at home in England, it's an amazing thing to be a part of. You know, you put a lot of effort into every single Test match, every single series you play, but there's always certain series that I think just take a little bit more out of you physically, mentally. And this is one of those.

Yeah. Do you talk about it as a team? Do you talk about the history and all of that of the Ashes? Do you sit there and chat about it?

Not really. Everyone's just aware of it. Everyone knows, you know, we know that there's been some incredible achievements before us, but what we're really focused on is our opportunity to, you know, put ourselves and put this team into the history books and be one of few England teams who've managed to come to Australia and return back with the own.

Yeah, and it does feel like that. I mean, this is like not career defining. It sounds A bit over the top, but I mean as a captain, I mean captains are known as Ashes winning captains, aren't they? I mean, it just kind of rolls off, off the tongue. Is it that for you, is that like a defining moment for you, do you think, in your captaincy?

Look, I've got no, you know, illusions as to how big the series is in the context of my time as England captain. Buzz knows that he's under no illusion about his time as England coach, how big the series is, same as Rob Kee. So look, we accepted that we embracing what that pressure and, and everything that comes with that as well. But you know, we're not sort of fixated on the idea that this is going to be detrimental to what we've given to English cricket in our time. We obviously know the goal that we want to achieve here come mid January and we'll be doing everything possible in our powers to achieve that goal. And I know that these series are always, you know, picked out of anyone's time as a player, as a captain, coach, whatever it may be. But, you know, all I know is that since I've been given the opportunity to lead this team out, I've given absolutely everything that I possibly can in terms of the physical side, the mental side of being a professional sportsman. And I'll always continue to do that.

Yeah.

Why have England struggled here over the years? What is it about coming to Australia that makes it so difficult?

Australia always have been and always will be a very, very good team wherever they go. And in particular here, England's record over the last while since 2010, everyone's aware of, everyone's been very vocal about that and we're aware of that as well. We take that on board. But as I said, this is our time to put our own mark in Ash's team and in particular England teams coming to Australia.

Yeah, Joe Root again, there's lots of talk with him, inevitably about him not having scored 100 here. I see Matthew Hayden has said he's going to run naked around the MCG if he doesn't score one. I wouldn't expect you to do that, Ben, but I mean, that's quite a nailed on endorsement, isn't it, about Joe Root, do you think?

Yeah, I mean, God, it's, you know, like trains are eventually going to come, aren't they? And with Joe, you know, he's a world class player, has been for a very long time. Thirteen and a half thousand runs, 38 Test hundreds. So look, he's obviously desperate to always contribute to this Test team and they don't necessarily always mean hundreds. I know that he wants to go out there and score 100 every single time he does. But the main thing for Joe is that if he's contributing towards teams to the team that he's playing for, winning, that's the main thing for him. And over these five games, if he manages to knock that hundred off, then you know, that'll be good for him. But it'll be great scenario if we win and if Joe doesn't score 100, then we get to see Matty Hayden running around naked as well.

That's not a pretty sight. I think it's a bit horrible. Preparation, come on. I know there's been lots of talk about that and you've had a few comments about people commenting on it. Could you be better prepared, do you think? Is there any way that you could have been better prepared for this iconic.

Series and starting tomorrow, physically we're ready. Mentally we're ready.

That's enough in terms of first class matches or whatever it might be, because it is unique, isn't it? I mean, you can see why people have talked about it, it's just not the way it's normally done. But I guess you go away and you prove people wrong.

Physically we're ready, Mentally we're ready.

Okay, what about the Aussies then? No Cummins, No Hazelwood. I mean, it's a golden opportunity this, isn't it?

Oh, look, when you lose two players you know in your team who are obviously two standout performers and have been for a long time and obviously it does hurt. I've been in that situation before where we've unfortunately lost a very crucial player with our team. But as we all know, an international sport, you can replace someone with someone who's very good as well. We won't be taking this game any easier or any more likely than we would if Pat and Josh were playing. Because we know Australia, incredibly competitive team, very passionate about sport, very passionate about cricket, and the two guys who step in to replace Pat and Josh in this game, we know that we're going to be in for a tough challenge just as much as we find ourselves up against when we play Pat and Josh. So, yeah, we won't be treating this any different as we would if Australia were able to field what we think.

Would be the best of the as we speak. You haven't named your 11, but I think we can probably guess what it's going to be. So, I mean, five quick bowlers, that's again, not common. But Is that so you can use Mark Wood in shorter bursts normally.

We obviously have morning training the day before, so me and Brendan have done our last sort of checks throughout wicket, see how everyone's going and then we can give you a team. But we're afternoon training here so we actually haven't managed to do that yet. So we'll have a final decision later on.

Diplomat, last thought. Ben, Sydney just looking ahead. I mean, you looking ahead to that you're looking ahead to maybe. Yeah, winning the Ashes here, winning test matches for the first time in Series in 15 years. I mean all of that. Are you looking down the line or is it just day at a time?

I think, yeah, I think my flight home is January 14th or something like that. So yeah, it'd be nice to step on that plane achieving the goal that we've all set out to. But we've got tough two and a half months ahead of us to be able to achieve that goal. It's not going to be easy. It's going to be very tough. We know the challenge we're in for, but yeah, we're prepared.

Well, our chief cricket commentator, Jonathan Agnew is sitting with me. We've just heard from Ben Stokes. Jonathan, he answers the questions he wants to answer, he doesn't answer the questions he doesn't want to answer. You know, so he put you away about the preparation but you know that he feels what. The responsibility of what lies ahead.

I think definitely. I mean it's a typical joust with Ben. It's the way it usually goes and yeah, I mean you can, you can, you can try and get those questions in there. But he was having none of it, was he? But I thought he was actually really quite serious and quite thoughtful, contemplative, you know, I mean as a, as a visiting captain to go into an Ashes series when you know the history and you know how one sided it is and the, they haven't won a match here, you know, since, since they won the Ashes here in, in 10, 11. I mean not to win a single game, you know, it's a terrible record, isn't it? It really is. But then a mark of that is, is that Australia have been a good team. But it does demonstrate how difficult it is to come here and, and to win now. I think that actually England have got a good chance this time. I really do. I think, you know, and particularly again he was a bit guarded about the Hazelwood and Cummin's question, wasn't he? About what, What a, you know, Philip, that is for England. And he. He kind of tapped it away. But, you know, it is. This is such an opportunity for England. It's a green pitch, grass on it. It's not going to be too hot. So again, that's another thing. It's got to be. We've a test match here. It was over 40 degrees one time some years ago. Not going to be mid-20s, which is perfect. Again, for England, it's pleasant. So all of those things, you know, you sort of add it all up and you can see why maybe Ben Stokes is starting to think along those terms of the legacy and so on. Because he did. He talked about that, didn't he? And how important it is, what it means. He said sitting on the plane, you know, going back, having won, I mean, that is. That's quite a dream, isn't it?

And you look at those Ashes winning captains since the war here in Australia. So Hutton, Illingworth, Brearley, Gatting, Strauss. Does Stokes have it in him, do you think, to join that list?

I think definitely, I think absolutely. I mean, he is a leader. He's not the sort of the hard fellow that people think he is. He's a bit of a softy, really. You know, he's got his tattoos and, you know, he fronts up and so on, but he is a softy, I think. I think he'd be a magnificent person to play for. He doesn't. I'd love to play. I'd love to play on the Stokes because you want your captain to be a leader and you want your captain to be up there at the front and not take a backward step. You know, I. I think he's definitely got it in him. I mean, it's a question of how England play. And I can't help but look back sometimes at that oval Test match against India, you know, 70 to win, two batsman on hundreds, seven wickets left, day and a half to bat, India broken and they lost. You know, it's things like that they simply cannot afford here. You can't give Australia a second chance. They've got to. They've got to hit the ground running tomorrow. That preparation will be an issue. Of course it will. And if it doesn't start well for England, that will come back and that will come back to haunt them because it's. It's unprecedented, you know, not. Not to play a single proper game before a first Test match in Australia. That's never been done before. And of course, they're getting lots of stick for that in the press here, aren't they? You Know about not being bothered and, you know, carefree and everything and playing golf, well, okay, that's fair enough. But if they do lose here and then, and it doesn't get right in brisbane and they're 2 nil down on the back of zero preparation and by the sounds of it, ducking out of the game between the two tests, then I think, I think it could get ugly.

It's, it's also worth saying that Australia have been playing golf in the buildup to this as well, haven't they? So they've all been out there on the course at the same time, but.

They'Ve also been playing Sheffield Shield cricket. You know, Mar Lane's been racking up runs. They dog got wickets of the day. I watched him bow, actually. I was quite impressed with him, actually. He swung a ball, but at a good pace. So, you know, they, they, they have been playing. Could England have benefited from one first class match for D against Australia A or whatever? I think that you should have at every tour before every Test should always play against the A team. It does every. It is beneficial for everybody, for the host team, the visitors, and for the quality of the cricket, frankly, you know, if the players are warmed up properly. Well, the answer is we just won't know. We won't know if they'd have benefited from it. But you could just see that that's there in the background and they've got to prove people wrong.

Those two debutants for Australia, Jake Wetherald and Brendan Doggett, neither of them are spring chickens, they're both 31, they've both got lots of experience, as you say, in Shield cricket. But it's still going to be a huge moment for both of them, particularly if Australia end up batting first for Jake Weatherell.

I will, I mean, to go out there and open the batting, I mean, again, it's a dream come true, isn't it? And they've done the right thing. They've announced it so that he knows he can get himself, get his mind ready for it. But, you know, there is a lot of inexperience. You know, Quadra's 39. There is grass on that pitch. And they're going to run in, they're gonna, they're gonna bomb Travis Head. You know, he's not, he's not a great player of short pitch, fast bowling. He's going to get it on there. You know, all of that. You can just see, here's a guy, go back to that point. I mean, England do really have an outstanding chance here. I Just hope they take it. I just hope they remain focused. Play, play grownup common sense cricket and not flash in the pan basball. Just, just you know, nail down positions when they, when they are in a good position, nail it down. Don't, don't give it away.

You almost think that we can, whatever happens at the toss we can almost guarantee that Australia will be batting and England will be bowling because England love to bowl first and Australia almost always bat first.

They. Yeah. Be interesting to see, won't it? They really are. I mean. Yes. I've got no doubts at all that, that, that Stokes will put him in.

Even though that the, the only five test matches played here the team batting first has gone on to win.

Yeah, well that's, that. That's true. I mean the one against India here last year, both first innings were done by lunchtime on the second day, you know, so I mean it does a bit here. It does and there is grass on it and I've got no, no doubts about, about England bowling first event to see what Steve Smith does. You know, caretaker captain Pat C is here getting. He's, he's bowling quite a lot actually in the nets. I think he'll probably play in Brisbane. So therefore as the caretaker captain do you, you know, do you put the other team in? You know all that stuff that for, for Smith to contemplate. So yeah, I mean I'm actually, I hope I'm going to do bow first actually and we see them running in and bowling hard and bowling with controlled aggression. The problem is that coming here to Perth and I know it's not the same ground, it's not the dear old whacker which was very fast and bouncy. There is pace and bounce in this but the wacker. England have not bowled well here over the years. They bow too short.

It's.

It's tempting to do. So you see the ball flying through. You've almost got to bow half volleys here almost to get the really full length. Cuz the batsman are inclined to be on the back foot anyway. So therefore you got to bow that fuller length. And England's record in Perth is terrible. So that's one of the reasons, that's one of the reasons why bowlers just haven't quite hit that right length. So if they do start bowling first they got to get all the sort of the nerves out of the way and, and just get out there and bowl controlled bowl control bowling that channel, bowl that full length and hope they take the catches.

Well we know that Australia are without their regular captain Pat Cummins and fellow seamer Josh Hazelwood. But as we've been discussing, there are two debutants with opener Jake Weatherald and fast bowler Brendan Doggett both getting their chance on the biggest stage of them all. Let's hear now from stand in captain Steve Smith, who's been speaking to the ABC's Ben Cameron.

Well, the Australian Test captain Steve Smith joins us. You've confirmed the team, two debutantes for the first test. What can you tell us about Brendan Doggett and Jake Weatherald?

Yeah, super excited for both of them. I think they've worked incredibly hard the last probably 10 years, but, you know, their performances, the last couple, you know, have got them in the position they are now. They're playing extremely well, so look forward to them making their debuts, getting their baggy greens, which you know is obviously a dream come true for them, playing in an Ashes series in front of a packed house. So look forward to watching them and yeah, hopefully they bring their best the next few days.

I don't think there's any more profile pieces to be written about either of them. What's one thing we wouldn't know about both of them?

Oh, geez, you're putting me on the spot there. Not sure. Jake strums a bit, plays a bit of guitar and Brendan, Jeez, I'm not sure. Yeah, tricky one, but yeah, look super excited for the skills that they possess and look forward to watching them next few days.

Yeah, new teammates. I apologise for putting you on the spot. Massive Ashes build up. You've played in a number of these series. How has it felt for you?

Pretty similar, actually. You know, I think every Ashes has a big build up with, you know, plenty of comments and words and what people think the teams are going to be, how the games are going to go and predictions and things like that. So pretty normal. Just exciting that it's now here and we get to get out there and start the game.

What's your earliest Ash's memory?

My earliest Ash's memory is probably the 05 series, actually. Obviously the series was incredible, arguably the best ever and a lot of people are thinking this one's going to be the best int05. So hopefully that's the case.

I think what we've seen here at Perth Stadium is that the pitch play pretty similarly to what we used to have at the WACA ground. It's been quick and bouncy. What are you anticipating this week from the pitch?

Quick and bouncy. Bit of grass on it currently, I Think it looks pretty similar to last year's game against India. I think the temperatures probably aren't going to be quite as hot as the India game, so potentially may not crack up as much. But we'll wait and see.

Last year we saw the Australian team lose this opening test here at Perth stadium. We had 14 of the 15 members of the squad playing Shield Cricket last week. Do you feel like the team's more prepared this time around?

I don't know. I don't think we can fault our preparation either way. You know, we've obviously got a few new bowlers in. We lost a couple, obviously, in Paddy and. And Hoff, unfortunately. But, you know, what we've got here is some quality performers. Doggett and Boland get their opportunity and Jake, obviously, as we said before, so we're excited by what we have here. Everyone's got a good set of skills that they're looking to showcase and I look forward to seeing them.

Mitchell Stark's running in, Crawley's on strike. You're captaining. Is there a deep point or a deep cover in place, or is the field up?

Yeah, we'll have to wait and see. Can't share too much, but, yeah, we'll wait and see.

I heard it characterised that you and Pat were debating that a lot in the last series by journalist Jared Kimber. Do you recall it like that? Did you want the field more up? Did Pat want them back? How do you recall the discussions, I won't say debates that you and Pat had about how to play against in inverted commas? Basball.

Oh, I mean, I can't even remember, to be honest. But look, I think for me it's just. Just about playing the game that's in front of us. And there'll be different scenarios where, you know, we will look a bit more defensive and places where we'll be more attacking and, you know, it's just about picking those moments live and not letting them pass. That's going to be important this series.

Last one, Stuart Broad says it's the best England team in 15 years. Do you see them as that?

I think they're a good side. You know, I'm not diving into who's better or worse or whatever, but, you know, they're a good side. You know, we're looking forward to playing against them, have plenty of good contests. So, yeah, hopefully it's an exciting summer.

Hello, it's Ray Winstone. I'm here to tell you about my podcast on BBC Radio 4, History's Toughest Heroes. I've Got stories about the pioneers, the rebels, the outcasts who define tough. And that was the first time that anybody ever ran a car up that fast with no tires on. It almost feels like your eyeballs are going to come out of your head. Tough enough for you? Subscribe to History's Toughest Heroes wherever you get your podcast TMS at the Ashes.

Well, what a series this is to look forward to. And all of the conversation during the course of the last few years is whether this will be the defining few weeks of the basball project. In an exclusive interview for BBC Sport, his great friend Phil Tufnell sat down with England head coach Brendan Baz McCallum on the eve of this historic series.

Baz, lovely to see you, mate.

Lovely to see you too. Tuffnalls.

What you been doing?

No, just enjoying Australia, obviously. Immense amount of excitement about what, what's to come. And now we're on the cusp of it. It's kind of, at that stage we kind of. You just let go a little bit, right, and you just enjoy the ride and see where it takes and see how we get on with things over the next little while.

Yeah, what the boys doing today, as you say, starts tomorrow, doesn't it? It's buzzing in town, mate. Yeah, buzzing in town.

That's good though, isn't it? That's why you're the biggest arena. That's what you play for. That's what you wanted as a kid and to get the opportunity to be standing on the start line. Yeah, it's pretty exciting. So I'd say half of the boys have probably trained today. The other half, particularly the bowlers, who have had a good head out over the last few days and they're ready to go. They'll put their feet up, maybe head down the beach, get a little bit of. Bit of quiet time before we get into the cauldron of tomorrow.

Absolutely. How are you feeling today, mate?

Good. I'm excited.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Different from playing.

Yeah, it's way different from plan. I got asked this the other day. I love my playing time, right. And I mean, you and I have talked about it over the years. I absolutely loved it. I feel like, you know, I was never a good. I was never a great player. I had great moments. But, you know, I got out of my career what I wanted to and I sort of left the game content. But coaching is so different. It's really rewarding, I think. The ability to be able to, particularly when you're head coach, the ability to try and shape an environment and to create an environment where you're giving these guys, hopefully, the confidence to be able to go out there and exhibit their skills on the tougher stage and to try and bind them together and try and, I guess, come up with an environment where guys feel as if they've got an attachment to something and then create, hopefully, an identity to how you play and then see how it is under the brightest lights and the biggest stage and there's nothing bigger than what we're about to come into.

I was going to say that. Do you feel that as one of the guys and how do you sort of manage, as you say, it's absolutely kicking outside, you know, I mean, everyone's so excited. Think we got a great chance as well, you know, so there's that expectation. How do you manage that with the boys? They feel that, obviously.

Look, I'm sure there's some nerves within the group, no doubt, as there will be amongst the Aussie boys, too. And I think in the past we've really tried to insulate ourselves from a lot of the outside noise and the expectations and the pressures, I think. I mean, this team's been together now for a good couple of years and we have been building towards this moment. So it's almost like, you know what, lads? Just lean into it now. But it is the biggest stage and it is the brightest lights and it is a series which could define. Define teams and define people and players within it. That's okay. I mean, yeah, you're going to feel nervous, you're going to feel anxious, but. But lean into it, you know, you're ready, you know, you've got the game to compete at this level and stay together, play the style that you've. You guys have become accustomed to over the last couple of years and just keep moving towards the target and we'll see in a couple of months where we land. But look, I'm super excited. I'm probably a bit more relaxed now than I was a few weeks ago, because now we're on the cusp of it, you know, we've got our team to the start line and I feel like our horse is going to run well. Whether. Whether we find another horse in the race better than us, who knows? But we're looking forward to it.

You think you've got the animal under you, do you? You think you got the animal under you?

I feel like we've got a little bit under the bonnet.

Yeah.

But you never really know until you open it up. Right. And we'll find out. I mean, it guarantees Us, nothing. But we come here with, with huge hopes and aspirations. We're incredibly respectful of what Australia, the challenge that they present and how good they are in their own conditions and the size of the task at hand. But we couldn't be more excited and we're optimistic.

Yeah, you said about, you know, defining moment. Do you feel that a little bit of what you've been through with this England side as well, it's a bit of a defining moment for you and Stokesy and.

Or. Yes, I think you know me well enough as well. I don't really think like that about. No, about myself. When Keersley put me in this role, it was a matter of trying to, trying to give a little bit of. A little bit more oomph to the lads to get them to believe in their games and to try and simplify things and take away a lot of the noise. And obviously this was the target which was in mind at the very start of that journey. And from my point of view, I never wanted necessarily to be a coach per se. I always loved helping environments and helping people. And you're trying to shape a sit up here which gives them the greatest chance. But for this team, I guess it will define the progress that we've made. For me it is what it is. But you know, for some of the guys who are, you know, who have had amazing careers, to be able to. Stokes in particular, for him to be able to lead England to an Ashes win away from home would be huge. But we understand all that stuff. But you paint that picture at the start, but now it's about sort of being where your feet are, living in the moment and just dealing with what comes. We'll be challenged on this tour. There's no doubt we'll have good days, we'll have bad days, but as long as we keep moving towards the target and we, we're able to still play the style of play that we, that we've embedded over the last couple of years, then we'll give ourselves the best chance.

Yeah, you talk about the noise. You've upset a few in the papers over here. Arrogant. What is that talking about?

Well, I don't read the paper. You know, for me it doesn't matter.

But what is it? The Western males be, be having an absolute field date. Water off a duck's back.

Yeah, I guess some of that stuff's pretty cool too. Like, I mean, I remember tough as when I was captain in New Zealand. I walked in after a press conference and there was three journalists there and I was Thinking at the time, gee, we're God, we've got to have cricket being a bigger space than this, surely, you know, so how do we get relevance? How do we get more eyeballs on what we're doing? And then when walked into Lords that day, the first day that I took the job with England and there was 65 journalists there, I thought, right, this is more like it. You know, there is a big stage, there is a lot of eyeballs and there is a lot of relevance to what you're doing. And, you know, it's not always champagne and caviar. You know, there's times where you're going to be criticised and there's times where it's going to be hard and you've just got to hang on the back of the speedboat. He keep going, you know, until you get to a few calmer waters. And that's the fun of it. You know, that is the fun of it. How do you stay level, calm, balanced and forward thinking when the pressure is at its highest? And that's what excites me about the challenge. And that's one of the reasons why I took the job. And now we're on the cusp of the biggest series with the brightest lights and the most scrutiny. You gotta look forward to that.

Yeah, bring it on. A little bit of unfinished business with Aussie.

No?

Yes.

Well, for all you fellows have all played before as well.

You're not the report now, mate.

Yeah, I mean, we're very aware there's 719 players that have played cricket for England and we're respectful and we're trying to lean into the history of what's gone before and understand that there will be cricketers that go after us as well during the time that we've got as custodians of the English cap and the English dressing room, it's up to us to lay everything out there and to put everything on the table and to be a good representation of us as players, the environment that we've created and ultimately try and get the best out of the talent that we possess. If we do that, there's no guarantees, but will give us our best chance.

Do you feel it's a little bit different, you know? You know, play this. A fantastic career, New Zealand and all around the world and everything. Do you feel that there's just a little bit something different, you know? England?

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, of course there is. I mean, even us as growing up, we were. I mean, we. We were sitting there going, gee, it'd be nice to be involved in that series, wouldn't it? How much fun does that look? England versus Australia, the Ashes. I mean, that's just. It captivates world.

You used to watch it 100%.

We used to watch. Doesn't just captivate world cricket, but it almost transcends the sport of cricket into other sports. I mean, I've had so many messages from people in different sports around the world, from different countries and all sort of wishing you luck, saying, they're going to be watching this series. And that's so exciting. To be in the thick of it when the very middle of it and being. Being able to sit back in the best seat in the house and watch some of the best players play is incredibly humbling.

Yeah. Saying sitting back watching it, are you going to be. Are you going to be. You're going to be feet up with the shades on as usual. Are you going to be a bit more. A bit more at it?

I can't imagine I'll be a bit more at it. I mean, just the way you go. Let's just. I feel lucky to be in the position we're in. You know, it really is. I mean, we understand the size of the task, but we ain't trying to cure cancer.

No.

We're trying to win a few games of cricket.

That's it.

And we're trying to represent all that's gone before, live in the moment, trying to achieve the task at hand and do it in a style and a manner which you've tried to embed over the last couple of years. Yeah. So to me, yes, there is going to be pressure, but just be yourself, lads. Just go out there and do the best job that you possibly can and we'll see where we land.

Watch the ball.

Watch the ball. You remember that, don't you? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. That was.

Just watch the ball.

Yeah, Just watch the ball, lads.

And you've got the New Zealand sort of mafia over here helping you, haven't you? What's the. What's the all black chapter?

Gilbert Anoka.

Yeah. God. What's these go?

Well, we've got a few Kiwis here and I guess when you're in these jobs, right, you want to. You surround yourself with the people that you think are the best people to help. And, you know, the Kiwis that we do have and the coaching staff and the support staff that we do have, it's been a process to get to the stage and. And I feel like we've got this really balanced, calm, positive support staff. Which sit in behind the players, who are able to alleviate pressure, who are able to keep pushing the boys towards the ultimate goal. And you try and shape your setup in any organisation, you go to try and shape your setup to allow a layer of protection from the noise and that which is outside. And keep pushing the guys towards going out there and testing their skills on the biggest stage and saying, it's okay if it doesn't work out. Go again. Keep going. And Gilbert, he's kind of the final piece in that pie. I've known Gilbert for a long time. He was.

Was he the old psycho boy? Is he?

Well, I don't really know his title per se. Probably not that, you know, he keeps things unbelievably simple.

Does he?

Yeah. I mean, his story. Chat with him, if you would love him. Actually.

You'd love him.

Toughness. He might have been a great third wheel on that TV show, actually.

He.

So I've known Gilbert for a long time. I'm sure he won't mind me saying he's been open with his upbringing. Grew up in an orphanage. He's a Rarotongan boy who's very humble and very balanced. And he thought, there's got to be more to life than this. And he said about trying to be the best version of himself he could. And it kind of gravitated then towards not just his own life, but then towards helping others, shaping others, and giving them a simplistic view of building teams and trying to get the most out of yourself. And he was my neighbour for a while, worked with him at New Zealand cricket for a long period of time. And when we got to this kind of last bit of where we are as a team leading into this series, his name sprung out of my head and I rang him and I said, bert, can we have a chat? And so I flew down to Christchurch and saw him and we had three hours together and explained sort of where we come from, where I feel like we're at, and what the next steps are for us with the challenge, which lay ahead. And. And he said straight away, in typical Bert fashion, he said, it's so easy, Baz. You guys are so close to being able to get yourselves ready for the biggest series. And he talks like there's no guarantees and everything, but I said to him, would you come on board? He said, I'd absolutely love to be an honour to come and help you guys. And he's been brilliant since he came on board and I think the guys have really appreciated this simplistic view. And Take on how he's gone about things and also the collective manner with which he talks and, and some of the strategies and tactics he's able to pass on to the lads too. So we're lucky to have him. He's in my opinion, the very best in his field in the world that I've come across. And I'm sure there's many other great people out there, but no one that I've come across that is as good as what he is in his field. And we're lucky to have him. And I'm sure the boys appreciate his presence around the group and what he's done for us so far.

You touched on tactics there a little bit. Have you got sort of like an operations room, you know, with sort of, you know, subutio, cricket out, whiteboards, analysis. Because a lot's been made about grueling tour, tough tour, done it twice down here, hard tour, fast bowlers, rotation and all this. Have you got it all planned out? You've always been a bit of a, a gut feel kind of guy, haven't you?

Yeah, I like to be playing as well, though. I think for me it's like your instinct is able to unfold. Yeah, that's. And your intuition instinct is able to unfold in the most pressurized moments when you have a layer of preparation and tactical acumen and preparation in behind you. So we don't sit down and have long winded meeting sites, but we're constantly, and this is across our sports staff and the captain and no, we're always having informal conversations, whether it be over coffee, over a meal at the golf course, over a beer at the beach, at training, whatever it is. We're always trying to have these informal conversations where we're prompting discussion and thought around what your tactic's gonna be like. We know coming down here the wickets are different to what we get back home. We know the kookaburra is a different challenge. We know where Australia is going to look to try and target us with both bat and bull. We know the hostility of the crowd and the boundary sizes and the heat. We know all that stuff. So put all that into the melting pot now in your own way and alongside your teammates style of play, because they are all complementary. How does that come about giving you the, the level of preparation and detail to now go out there and play on with the instinct and feeling 10 foot, 10 foot tall and bulletproof and be in the moment and let that stuff come out. And that's kind of without giving everything away. That's Kind of. That's the kind of simple. That's a simple approach that we like to operate with. And I think. I mean, it doesn't guarantee you, but again, it gives you your best chance, we feel, in the group that we've got.

Yeah, well, just on that, then. I mean, do you keep one eye on the Aussies or is it just about. Look, we look after ourselves, obviously. Have a little look, see what they're doing and everything.

Yeah, definitely. Of course you do like this.

But it's all about us moving forward.

Yeah, I'd say. I mean, it's about us getting to the start line, full of belief and. And clearing our thoughts about how we want to play. But part of that is understanding what they're trying to do. Where areas where you think you might be able to drill down on and other areas where, you know, you've got to be a little bit sort of solid when they come at you. And. And I think that's all part of it. And look, the guys prepare unbelievably well, though. Yeah, they're as hard a working team as I've ever seen. They're also very well balanced and I think that gives them the best opportunity to perform.

Stokesie. All right.

Flying. Yeah, absolutely. Flying. Yeah, yeah.

Looks fit. Looks fit.

Fit. Proper fit, isn't he? He's flying. I mean, he can. Emotionally, he's in the best place I've seen him from a leadership point of view. I've not seen him in a better space as well. And obviously, physically, and he's ready to go. And he knows that this is a huge moment for him as well. And I think the key is that. And this is where the leadership around him, his greatest attribute as a leader is getting the very best out of all those around him. So, yes, he's a great leader from the front, but our best chance is for him not just to lead from the front, but to get the very best out of all those guys around him. Keep pushing them towards the danger, keep being there as a protective layer. If things don't quite go right in that first moment and asking him to go again, that's the strength he's got as a leader. He doesn't flinch. If he cannot flinch over the next couple of months, which I don't think he will again, that gives us our best chance.

I mean, it's so. It's. It's such a big thing in it. Coach, captain, I mean, it was just. Just piece of cake.

Yeah, well, I mean, like, most people.

Have that relationship, you Know.

Yeah.

Well, Stokes and I, like, we knew each other a little bit before, you know, we. We came to his jobs, but I wouldn't say we're tied. There was a respective both how. How we both went about things, but since taking on this job and us working together, I think we've become good mates. I think we've both got a very similar vision for this team and what we're trying to achieve. And we both have a healthy perspective on where the game is in regards to life in general, but also being fiercely determined and competitive. And we also both like getting the best out of the people that are around him. I think we are very similar in a lot of ways, and we're different in other ways, too, which I think balances itself out. But I'm very lucky as a coach in a time that you've got in a job as big as this, to have a captain such as Stokesie. And I feel very privileged to get the opportunity to not just work with him in this role, but also to get to know him and call him a good mate.

And all the boys are fitting well. Hammies. How's Bash's finger? All right? Good, yeah. Best is bowling all right?

Good bowling. Good. And I mean, Besh, what a kid he is. You know, he hardly plays for his county, which is fine, but he comes in here and he is just. He's just a champion. You know, he's a.

He's a.

He's a gun bowler. And the thing for him is not let too much stuff in. Just gun bowl and do your thing, you know, just try and take wickets. A little bit of this, a little bit of that. Yeah, a little bit of that. Every now and then, compete, get in the battle, have that presence you've got. We love him to bits and, you know, even if he doesn't play in this game, this first one, there will be a time in the series where Bash can win us a Test match.

Absolutely.

And that's it. I mean, that's exciting to be the age that he is. We've seen how tough he is, 21 or 22 years of age, coming out with a broken hand against India and spinning that last wicket, getting us a Test win. You can saw the boys what he means to this team and what this team means to him. And his moment will come.

Yeah, amazing that he actually rolled back and then went that way, didn't it? I was compensated.

That's bizarre.

No, I was like that. It done a zigzag. So. So, yeah, so just really excited. Data Come keeping your feet on the ground, boys. Just up for. For tomorrow. And let's bring it on, boys. You know, I mean, we. You've got everyone behind you, mate. We will be there in force. I tell you something, that the whole. The amount of people I saw on the plane coming over, just so buzzing for it, so up for it, so excited for it.

And we feel that too. Yeah, we know that there's. Yeah, there's going to be. There's going to be challenges, there's going to be, you know, criticism, there's going to be people flying at us, but we equally know that in our corner, yeah, there's what, 60, 70,000 English flying over, flying all that way from the Northern hemisphere down here to hit Australia to support this team. And we'll feel that. And we know that the support we're going to get and we know the support we've had over the last few years and we cherish that. And we'll do our very best over the next couple of months to try and lay down a marker and achieve something special, knowing that it's not going to be easy, but we're excited for it.

Donny's coming, Dhoni wants tickets. Duchess wants tickets.

There we go. That'll keep you on the straight and narrow for the next couple of months, too.

It will do. Listen, bats, listen. All the very best, mate. And just good luck, mate. Play well, enjoy. Smile on your face and go well, mate.

Thanks.

Nice to see you, brother.

You too.

The TMS podcast on BBC Sounds.

Well, don't forget, Test Match Special is the only place to listen to full ball by ball coverage of the Men's Ashes, with every ball live and exclusive from Australia on 5, Sports Extra and BBC Sounds. And our coverage goes way beyond that, with highlights on the BBC iPlayer and BBC Sport website, plus daily podcasts and the TMS Ashes debrief every day on the iplayer. It's nearly showtime in Perth.

TMS at the Ashes. In the mid-90s, whilst Britain was having its Beckham moment, South Africa was having its own. But cricket captain Hansi Cronje didn't kick the ball.

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I'm Mark Butcher, former England cricketer. Join me for sport's strangest crimes. Nancy Cronier, fall from grace. Listen on BBC Sounds. Hello. It's Ray Winstone. I'm here to tell you about my podcast on BBC Radio 4, History's Toughest Heroes. I got stories about the pioneers, the rebels, the outcasts who define tough. And that was the first time that anybody ever ran a car up that fast with no tires on. It almost feels like your eyeballs are gonna come out of your head. Tough enough for you? Subscribe to History's Toughest Heroes wherever you get your podcast.