Explosive England seal T20 series against Sri Lanka

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This is the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

So England have won another T20 series and they've continued their long unbeaten record against Sri Lanka. That's 14 wins in a row now, and I make it they've won 22 of their last 28 matches. Of course, they did lose a crucial game this year, an absolutely crucial game that will Cup semi-final against India. David Millan is alongside me. David, I mean, just assess this England T20 side. I mean, they do just keep on winning and winning. Um, why are they so good and how could they get better?

Well, that's a very good question. I, I, I— to answer the first one, why they're so good, I, I think they play a lot of T20 cricket. I think you look at— they play the Blast, you play England cricket, you play the Hundred. A lot of them play in the IPL, they play in franchise cricket along sort of around the world in the offseason when they're not representing England. And, and a lot of these players, you know, the Bantams don't play Test cricket, so they have a lot of periods free, um, in, in their schedule to be able to do that. So when you play a lot of a format, you get a lot better at it. Um, I, I think Brendan McCullum in the white ball has got a real clear method that he wants to, to play, the same as what he did in the Test match when he started off, and the players have bought into that. He has a captain that really wants to play that way as well and actually lives and breathes that with the way he plays. And if you have that, the players follow you. He backs them. Um, you look at their depth chart and the way they can sort of probably pick 2 teams at the moment. You've got no Salt, Donald comes in, you still got Bethel to come in, you've got, uh, Sam Curran, um, you've got one or 2 other players that are missing as well. They're able to rotate the bowlers and it's like for like. If Tong misses out, Archer comes in. If Both of them play. Sonny Baker misses out. You still got Gus Atkinson, um, you've got James Coles to replace Dawson if there's an injury there. You've maybe got Rian Ahmed if Adil Rashid gets injured. So you have so many options and so many players that can bat in different positions and contribute consistently as the, as the tournaments go on and, and, and as England keep playing. So when you have a team like that and you have a squad like that, it's incredibly exciting because everybody's going to push each other consistently. to be better and better and better. A bit like that White Ball era that Eoin Morgan had, where if you missed out for a couple of games, there was always someone good enough to come and take your spot. And at the moment, it feels like England are in that position.

So I said to you, how could they get better? But actually, are they kind of at the pinnacle at the moment? They're playing as well as they possibly can.

Oh, I don't think that they're pinnacle. I mean, you look at some of the players that are missing, they have options in, in with more left-handers that can come in. They still have the opportunity to push the bar. I mean, Jos Buttler's been brilliant. They've missed Phil Salt in this. They've still got a couple of young players that's still finding their feet. And we spoke a little bit about it on air, um, about Donald, uh, taking these opportunities, uh, Jordan Cox. You know, Tom Banton had a new role and he's now— looks like he's nailed that a bit. He had a couple of really good innings in the World Cup. He had a good innings against India. He's played a fantastic innings tonight where he was able to win this game. and really dominate for England. So I guess the next challenge for England is that these younger players coming through— and well, I don't want to say younger players, but young players in terms of international cricket— are able to come in and fill that gap and be able to perform. Obviously not as consistently as the guys whose spots they take, because otherwise they'd be playing, but to really be able to fill that gap and to be able to win games of cricket and, and win, win games of cricket within the role that they are designated by the team captain and coach.

It's an interesting one for someone like, uh, Noren Donald, who comes into the side because there's an injury. And Salt's a banker for England, isn't he? And, and Donald comes in and England got off to a good start in, in both games. And, and there are a few highlights from Donald. There were tonight. He made 21 from 13. You, you think, I wonder whether he can go on and make 50 or 60 not out. And he hits one up in the air, playing the way that he is kind of supposed to play or normally does play. I wonder how you kind of sort that out as a player. You know, you, you, you need to make these eye-catching scores, you— but you still need to play in the way that you're— for the reason you've been picked in the first place. And I, I would just wonder how he would feel after his performances in these 2 games.

Well, exactly, you've hit the nail on the head. You, you get picked to play the role that you get picked. So Phil Salt has been injured And they're trying to find a player that can fulfill that role that Phil Salt has, which is if the first ball is there to hit, he is able to hit it for 4, which Donald has done in these games. He's come in with brilliant intent. He's played the exact same way he does in county cricket and when he has got the opportunity in the Hundred. The next question for the coaches are, are you able to do that consistently for long periods of time? International cricket is sustaining pressure for longer than it is in the Blast. It's longer than it is in the Hundred. You have better bowlers, more consistent So you have to find ways of being able to be better for longer periods in international cricket, and that will be the next test for someone like a Donald or a, a Cox who are still trying to find their feet, is can they do it consistently? How do they do that? Do they keep the same tempo that they go at? Do they become more ruthless when they come in? Do they watch, uh, someone like a Jos Buttler and how he goes about it? Does he wait for a matchup? Does he just keep swinging? So you have to learn. You've got Kevin Pietersen, Brendan McCullum, both fantastic white ball players and probably greats of the white ball game, sat in that changing room alongside Jos Buttler, who is a great of the white ball game, especially for English cricket. To be able to pick their brains, learn from them, watch how they go about it, watch how they open up both sides of the field, watch when they take players down. I mean, and there's a lot of information that goes with it. you have to do what you can in those small periods of games to be able to earn the right to have another game of cricket for England when that opportunity arises. And sometimes you'll probably look back and go, I have played the way I wanted, I've got out doing that, that's absolutely fine. Or you'll look back and say, I've played the way I wanted to, but I got in and I missed those opportunities. And I think both Cox and Donald tonight and in the first game— I know Cox didn't bat in the first game, but Donald will look back and say I got myself in, I was flying, I was striking at 200, and I just missed that opportunity to really show everyone how good I can be.

What about the influence of Kevin Pietersen on this team? Obviously it's eye-catching, isn't it, to see him on the boundary edge there? You know, he's on the television cameras a lot. Inevitably, you know, when someone's played a big shot, the television cameras focus on him. What do you think his influence on this England white ball team will be.

Well, he was a maverick, wasn't he, when he played? He, he sort of rewrote the, you know, the, the book on white ball cricket and, and Test cricket and how he goes about it. He was brilliant to watch, an entertainer. And this team under Harry, Harry Brook and Brendan McCullum is all about entertaining. It's about playing good cricket, winning cricket, but entertaining as well. And, and Kevin Pietersen will buy into that. And, and hopefully he doesn't change his tune with a lot of the things that he's been saying because Maybe this white-ball team under Harry Brook and McCullum maybe needed a little bit of someone to come in and ask a few questions. Not necessarily tell them what they should be doing differently, but ask questions and say, what, how much do you train? Or maybe he can see how much they do really train and whether the schedule actually—

Because he questioned them, didn't he, in India? He said this is a team that's not training hard enough. There was that series, actually, they lost the last one. That, you know, that's when they had a bad time of it in T20 cricket, actually. Last year.

Yeah, and he'll be able to see firsthand what the schedule's like. I mean, these guys would have been finishing a Test match on the Sunday and playing on a Tuesday. I mean, that's ridiculous for these guys to then go in and train. And how do they practice their white ball skills? And, you know, we saw it earlier in the year when they were playing against— I think it was New Zealand or India. It was against New Zealand, sorry— where guys were out on day 4 of the Test match and then practicing their white ball skills just to get ready for a Test match.

That's right.

Yeah.

So the schedule of the international cricketer is so unique now that you have to find small opportunities to train, and you also need a break from the game. I mean, Harry Brook has played so much cricket this year since the start of our summer, and it doesn't look like there's going to be a lot of break for him going forward. So maybe Kevin sitting there will understand that from a player's point of view, the modern player, that there isn't a lot of time to train, how you can do it and how you can work that out, but also learn his ruthlessness. I mean, Kevin Peterson was ruthless, wasn't he, as a player? When he got in, he made it count. He scored hundreds across all formats of the game, um, in his career, uh, domestically and internationally. He was able to dominate for long periods of time. And sometimes that's what you need is a team that's becoming really good. And maybe you, you, you said that earlier, Simon, how do they get better? Maybe having someone like that in the team who never was, never happy with what he did, always wanted to get better, always pushing himself. Maybe that will keep pushing this team to keep the standards of what they want. and keep pushing that sort of bar on what they can achieve. Because sometimes you, you win games of cricket like you have the last couple, and the way they played against India, and you think, oh, we've, we've done it now, we've reached our heights, and let's just keep it there. But actually, the best teams keep finding ways to improve, whether that's training, fitness, whether that's intent, whether that's fielding. And I'm pretty sure— and I know Kevin Pietersen is not the coach, Brendon McCullum is— and he's spoken really well this week about what he wants from his team. and the standards that he wants, and that's really good to see and clear from him. But if it just comes from him, sometimes it becomes a bit stale. So maybe that message being pushed from Kevin Pietersen as well might just really make these players push and work harder for longer periods of time.

What do you sense? I mean, you've obviously played a lot of cricket, a lot of international cricket as well. What would you sense it'd be like for international players to see someone like Kevin Pietersen in the dressing room? Will some be inspired, some slightly overawed by him, or do you think You know, actually it will be just inspired by him. How does it work?

Well, I think it'll be a mix. I mean, I actually remember playing an ODI game here for England in 2023, and Andrew Flintoff was in the changing room after he had his accident, and Rob Kee brought him back into the game. And I actually remember looking at him thinking, this is Andrew Flintoff, like, sat in the changing room. And I know I'd been number 1 in the world and I'd played a couple of World Cups and Ashes, but I was still looking up to someone that I idolized as a kid, and I watched play cricket. And when you're suddenly in the changing room with someone like that— and yes, you bump into them when you're sort of, you know, walking around the field and they're doing interviews and they're commentating, and everyone's like, oh, hi mate, how you doing? Everyone's matey-matey. But to actually sit in a changing room and for them to see how you go about your business, and for you to see how they handle themselves— I mean, it was brilliant for me to see how Andrew Flintoff handled himself in the changing room. He was almost in awe of us, and we were sat there being like, no, we're in awe of you. We we really like respect what you did. And he wanted to play in our era, and we were like, well, we watched you play and what you did was phenomenal. So I think it would be a mix of players like a Butler and these guys that probably played with Kevin early on in their careers and maybe had a little bit of a mix-over and have the opportunity to be around him again. And some of the younger players that saw how good he was and have listened to him commentate for a few years and, and been around the cricket circuit and, and probably want to sort of get to know him as a person away from just the— what you see on social media or you see on TV. And, and that would be a good opportunity not only for them but for him as well, because he has done a bit of commentating— well, a lot of commentating— and he's been a coach in the IPL or a mentor. Um, so for him to then be in that change room, he'll learn a lot as well, not only from the players but about himself and about his methods. And that'll probably help him in his career moving forward, not that he needs it, but whatever he does in his career as well.

Yeah, it's an interesting one because, I mean, it's quite a long-term commitment, isn't it? It's not just, oh, in for a series. Sometimes coaches come in or mentors come in for a series or 2, but he's, you know, he's in it for the relatively long haul up to the World Cup in South Africa. It's fascinating to see how that is going to play out. I mean, it might be hard to deduce actually what his impact is. I think that's also one of the interesting aspects of it. But, um, I mean, it's remarkable to see him in that dressing room, really.

Yeah, it is, and and it's good to see. I mean, the only way you're really going to get a gauge of it is if you get the players privately and you speak to them. You say, "What impact has he actually made?" Because no one's going to stand up in in front of the media and say, "Oh, we he didn't really offer much, did he?" Like, I mean, you're going to be gutsy walking back in the gym after he's heard that interview. So yeah, I get I dare someone to do it. Harry Brooks probably the only one, and maybe Butler could get away with it, but the rest would probably keep their mouths shut. But no, look, you know, and I think one of one of the The dangers of this when— with having someone with Kevin Peterson's, um, profile in the changing room is that you forget about the other coaches that are there— McCollum and, um, you know, Triscothic and, and the guys that have been there doing the hard work as well. Sometimes their attention will shift on that it's Kevin Peterson that's now making this team good. He's going to have a part to play in the role that he is given by Rob Key and by Brendan McCollum, who said that he was the one that called him. So he's obviously been given a role that he thinks would help and benefit his team and his coaching team. And as long as Kevin plays that role, he becomes part of that coaching team that then pushes this team forward. And it doesn't really become about KP, and it doesn't become about Brendan McCullum, and there's 2 different coaches. They have to be together as a team, otherwise it just might not work.

Harry Brook, let's discuss him. A phenomenal innings the other day, actually played, I mean, a wonderful cameo today, actually a brilliant catch. by Malinga on the boundary. He is such a beguiling cricketer to watch, isn't he? I know that he's, you know, he's had his problems in terms of people almost expect too much, you know. Every time you watch him play, you know, he looks so good, you think, come on, you can score 100 every time or 70 every time or whatever and win a game. How do you see his evolution as a batter?

Yeah, it's been fascinating to see. I mean, I was lucky enough to see him firsthand at Yorkshire before he got picked for England. My first year at Yorkshire, he was talked about quite highly. And funny enough, he, he started really well in the, in the 4-day game, and then towards the end in the T20, he actually tailed off a little bit, and there was talk about dropping him. And I remember Joe Root was captaining at the time for Yorkshire, and he actually said to whoever was making the decisions about dropping him, saying, I think you're getting this wrong. I think this guy is going to be like, like one of the better players going around. I think we have to stick with him. They ended up sticking with him for the last game, and he got a 60 not out batting with Joe Root. And then the following year, he came back and he was at a different level. He, he had progressed in that winter. He'd done his work. He was clear with his training methods. And I actually remember playing at Durham in a 4-day game with him, and, and, um, uh, Coughlan that was playing for, uh, Durham at the time was bouncing him, and it was decent pace, and he just kept putting him in the stand. And I remember batting on the other end, and I always thought I was all right on the short ball, and, and I sort of felt a bit rushed. And, you know, you sort of tap in it behind square for one, and he just kept banging into the stands. And when you see a player at that age and that level being able to dominate so well against good quicker bowling, um, and then to see him come into the international team and find it from ball one, really, he, he didn't really struggle. He didn't really have those moments where he was down and then up. He just found found his feet so easily. And he probably had— I would say that 2023 World Cup, uh, when he was picked instead of Jason Roy, that was probably the only time in his career where he's probably had a bit of a dip and where there was a bit of pressure on him. Um, and he actually found a way through that eventually. And, and I think that's actually put him in good stead. But his evolution as a player from when I saw him in 2020 to what he is now, I mean, he is, as Steven Finn said before, he is probably the best all-format batter in the world. There's no one else that is guaranteed all 3 formats that can score hundreds in all 3 formats, is that consistent across all 3 formats. So, um, all credit to him, and, and hopefully he keeps learning and keeps getting better. Because I think the thing that I like the most about him is he's been given a lot of responsibility as well. He's the, the captain. He was talked about being the Test captain as well, and he's managed to just find ways of, of dealing with that pressure and still being as good on the field.

You, you alluded to it just finally. One issue with him is how much they play him because because he's so good at all three formats, and England just roll on, don't they? In in the in the various formats, it just goes you know T20 into one dayers more one dayers more one dayers then into test series and then you know on and on it goes. What what do they do? He is the captain of the white ball side. What do they do with him? Do they have to say you know sorry you're not going to go to Pakistan or you're not going to go to Australia or what what do they do? Because you you can't actually keep going to the well as a cricketer, can you? You do need a break from time to time.

Yeah, definitely. And I guess that's going to be the challenge. I, I think one of the things that I really respect him for is that he's pulled his name out of the hat for all the franchise cricket around the world. He plays just for England and in the Hundred. I think that's going to benefit his long-term career for England. The only question is whether he needs to develop by playing in different leagues. I don't think he does. He is such a good player already, and I already think that he keeps pushing himself when he does play for England. Uh, there might be opportunities to say, for argument's sake, this next T20, um, on Saturday, there might be an opportunity for him to rest in that game. The series been won, it might be the opportunity to give whoever's the next in line to be captain, giving them opportunity to see, a bit like what Eoin Morgan did at times.

Can I just say that, do you need though actually to miss a block? So you need, you need 2 or 3 weeks off rather than what, you know, rather than 3 or 4 days off? Because obviously the one-day series starting on Tuesday, he's the captain of that. Do you know what I mean? Do you actually need a block of something to miss and say, Harry, just go away from the game, do whatever, go on holiday?

Yeah, you do. And I guess that's led by him as well. I think there'll be times where Rob Key would probably offer him that, and so would Brendon McCullum and Fleming as well. Maybe not from the Test, but there'll be a period where they'll be able to sit down with him and say, Harry, how are you feeling? And he might turn around and say, I'm fine, or I need a break. I remember actually last year during the Hundred He actually didn't practice the whole of the Hundred because that was his break. So he would have 2 days off between games, and those 2 days he'd go and play golf, get away from cricket, turn up at the game, play the game. So it wasn't about his training. He was trying to stay mentally fresh from the game. And in that 3-week period that he was available, he only played 8 or 9 games of cricket. So that was his way of managing it at that specific time. And there might be a time where he sits down with Rob Keeley and says, I'm cooked here, I really need a break. And it's then for England to understand when the time is for that break. And they might say to him, look, we might need you for these 3 weeks against Australia, but afterwards we've got, I don't know, whoever else is coming next. Let's give you a break here, and we really need you to be clear that you're going to rest and get away, get on the plane and disappear for a week and just, you know, get away from cricket.

Okay, thanks very much, David. Let's get some reaction now. Alison Mitchell has been speaking with England captain Harry Brook.

Harry, congratulations, the win, the series win. Tell me your assessment of that match and the things that pleased you the most.

Um, yeah, another Clinical performance. I thought we were outstanding with the ball. We got off to a little bit of a rocky start, but I had a feeling we'd be going to drag it back at drinks. And I actually said to Dawson at the time, we'll bowl them out or get them close to 140 by the end of this. So yeah, I was pretty happy with the way that we bowled, especially through that middle period after drinks as well. Jama to bowl 4 overs on the trot was outstanding. Liam Dawson got man of the match as well. He was awesome tonight. Everybody chipped in, and then the way we finished it off, Bantz especially, was, was, yeah, it was awesome. It was very clinical.

Yeah, Liam obviously had all that time out of the international setup, but he's come in, he seems to sort of get better and better. How have you seen his evolution, you know, in the most recent times?

Who's that?

Sorry.

Liam Dawson.

Yeah, he's, yeah, he's an unbelievable cricketer. He's very experienced. He's played almost everywhere in the world now. He's played a hell of a lot of T20 cricket and He just knows the little, little change-ups in different parts of the game. Know when to go wide, know when to go straight, get under the bat. And he's a very skillful bowler for the experience he's got as well. He uses every ounce that he's got.

This side that you're captain of, how, I suppose, much do you feel sort of in control of it? Everybody knowing their roles, you as captain, you know, you having settled into the role as well now. Is it feeling very comfortable?

Yeah, I actually said the other night it feels like we're really building a squad now that where if someone goes down, I have full faith and trust in the person that comes in to play that role, no matter what position it is. Yeah, I feel like I'm, I'm doing an okay job out there. Everybody knows where they're meant to be in the field. They know that the little nuances of the game that we're trying to do out there on the field, especially especially, has been outstanding and everybody backs it as well.

And for your own performance, you've gone not out, not out, not out. I guess that good run couldn't go on forever, but your confidence must be sky-high with the bat.

Yeah, I'm hitting it nicely at the minute and picking up length, which is the key to batting really, standing still and playing the ball on its merit.

Congratulations on the win, well done.

Thank you.

That's Harry Brook with Alison Mitchell. Tom Bantam made an impressive half-century in the run chase. And he's also been speaking to Alison.

Tom, congratulations on the half century. How did you enjoy that match there and being able to be there at the middle for the winning moment?

Yeah, it's a special feeling, I think, being not out at the end to take us home. It's a different role for me, so always trying to learn. Some days it's going to come off and some days it's not like the other night. But yeah, it's just trying to adapt to the wicket. And I think that's something we spoke a lot about in the change room. And just, yeah, trying to kind of keep communicating between each other. But yeah, it's going good.

How do you have to adapt when your role is then in the middle order? What changes for you?

Not a lot, to be honest. It's still obviously the ball coming down. But I think when you have your matchups, you really got to try and take it down and just being smart. You look at how Harry played the other night. I think he hit something like 15 twos or something. So it's not all about hitting sixes and fours sometimes, especially on bigger boundaries. There's the smarter options. And then sometimes when it's, you know, you've got your matchup, you really try and take it down.

How have you enjoyed having Kevin Pietersen in the dressing room?

Yeah, it's been great. An idol of mine growing up, and for him to be around has been great. Yeah, he's obviously a wealth of experience, one of the best players who've ever played the game. So for him to be in the changing room and with us for, I guess, the next year and hopefully for longer is great. And yeah, it's just nice. So I actually haven't spoken to him properly about batting yet. It's— you're still in awe a little bit in the changing room and, you know, he's there and it's like Wow, this is Kevin Peterson. I think everyone kind of still feels a little bit like that at the moment, but no, he's been great. He's gelled in really well, and yeah, hopefully it continues.

So is it the case that he's there for you to approach as and when? There's no sort of big, here's Kevin to address the group, or you've got, you know, a fixed time to go and see him or anything like that? How does it— how is it working?

No, I think there's no structure. I think he's just trying to fit in with the group, and I think that's why we've been so successful, I reckon, over the last year or so. We're so close. Off the field, you know, small things like playing a lot of card games together and, you know, small things like that. It's not that big of a thing, but I think it's so important. Like, I'm really close with a lot of the boys now and it makes such a difference when it comes down to, you know, tighter moments, or if you think you have an opinion on the game, then you can go and speak to, you know, Brookie or Jacksy or the, you know, senior players in the group. So I think, yeah, Baz has created a really good environment and hopefully it continues.

So Kevin's an idol of And I remember one of your early T20 innings when you really caught the eye playing a sort of flamingo-type shot. Was that sort of modeled on, you know, Kevin, watching him when you were younger?

A little bit, probably. I didn't try and guess copy him. I think just being both quite tall, kind of naturally sometimes you get compared to people like that. But no, I've just tried to learn as much as possible. Yeah, and you— even someone like Brookie, the way he played the other night, it's— you He's still one of my best friends, but to see how good he is, it's frightening. I was saying to Baz yesterday, it's just scary to think how good he is. But no, look, it's a really exciting group and hopefully it continues.

And just to take— I'll just move away because I've got to get swept up by the covers in a moment. Taking a broad view on your career, because you were— it was just before your 21st birthday when you first made your international debut. How do you feel you've evolved in that time to where you are now?

Yeah, a huge amount. I was, I think, playing in the second team for Somerset at the start of the year, and then to be making your international debut, I guess, 6 months later is something you probably never thought would happen. But look, it's taught me a lot about myself, not only in cricket but away from cricket. And sometimes that's how some people's careers pan out, and that's been mine. And yeah, I look back with some good memories and some bad memories. I think that's how everyone's careers kind of shape out. But yeah, it's been I'm not looking back now, just trying to look forward and keep taking this England team forward where I can do, whether it's in the field. I really enjoy my field and trying to— something we're huge on, trying to push that as a group. And then yeah, with the batting, I just try and contribute where I can.

And you've spoken about Harry Brook and how crazy he is as a batter. How have you found his captaincy? What type of captain would you say he is?

Yeah, very relaxed. I've known Harry for a very long time, so I don't get too involved with that side of things, kind of tells me where to field, and I just run off there and kind of do it. So I guess it's more the bowlers, but he's been great, keeps it very simple. I think that's been really good for the group and everyone. I think the key is everyone knows their roles. The other night, 2 people stood up, you know, it's different people standing up each game. I think that's kind of the success to a good team, really.

Congratulations on your 50 today. Well done for the win.

Thank you very much.

Coming next, Henry Moran has been speaking with the ECB chair Richard Thompson about England's summer. The controversy over Ashes tickets and venues and his support for a special event taking place at the end of the summer at Lord's.

You're listening to the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

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So we're coming to the end of the international summer, but we still do have the rest of this Vitality T20 series, plus 3 Metro Bank ODIs and the climax of the Ross Shaye County Championship and the men's and Women's One Day Cup. And there's also an event that you can get involved with the day after the last games that are played this summer, and that's at Lord's, where you could register 100 at the home of cricket, all to raise money and awareness for the Alzheimer's Society. And the ECB chair Richard Thompson is an ambassador. He's with us now. What's it all about? Lovely to see you, first of all, but what's all this about?

It's an opportunity. One of the most iconic things you can do in cricket is to get 100 at Lord's runs. The The idea here is to do 100 laps of Lord's, which would be 32 miles nearly, which is an extraordinary achievement in a day over a marathon. We've got nearly, I hope, nearly 100 people. We've got some places left, so people can register by going on to the Alzheimer's Society website if they would like to try and take the challenge on. But the opportunity is potentially once in a lifetime. Alzheimer's is a very, very cruel disease. It— my father died of Alzheimer's. I created a charity called Sport United Against Dementia, which is the origins of this. We hope to raise around £350,000. We're already £200,000 in. We've invited some cricketers to come along that got out in the '90s that complete their 100. I did the one lap with Mike Atherton, so he's now got his 100 because he was run out on 99. And the opportunities, as I say, won't come around very often. I've also extended this offer to MCG, to Headingly to Old Trafford, Oval. So the idea is not just getting 100 at Lord's, you can get 100 anywhere. So it becomes a fundraiser that Alzheimer's Society and Sport United Against Dementia can really own and develop and draw awareness to the fact that it still kills more people than heart disease. Cancer is Britain's biggest killer. There is no cure. Drawing awareness is very important because between the ages of 55 and 65, there's a number of things you can do with your lifestyle to help prevent early onset. So as much as this is a fundraiser, it's also an opportunity for people to become aware of how they can try and prevent that from happening and how Alzheimer's Society can help relatives that are living with a disease that is very cruel.

And it's a long way as well, it's longer than a marathon.

Well, it is, having done it as well. Obviously the slope at Lord's right to left as you look out from the media centre is 7 foot, so you actually do feel that slope, and when you're doing that slope 100 times You're coming up, then down, and it's it's a bigger commitment than I think people probably recognize. But it's something that you know, but these individuals that have been training for it that can't wait to do it. Rothsay have been incredible. They've really lent into it. A number of people are bringing teams, so ten individuals will do ten laps each, so that team will complete the hundred. So you know, I'm really looking forward to it. So on Monday the 28th of September, huge thanks to Rob Lawson and Mark Nicholas for their commitment in allowing this to happen, and we hope that other venues will follow suit.

Yeah, extraordinary. And it really will be a physical achievement for, for, for those that can complete. Are you going to have a go? I certainly am. I'm going to be there.

I can't—

I'm looking for 8:30 start as well.

So I'm looking forward to stopping for lunch and tea because you obviously have to have your cricket.

Well, it's cricket. I would expect nothing else. Indeed. So look out for that on the— on our social media as well. And, uh, and do get involved if you possibly can. I mean, it's, it's iconic venue. We know that Lords— there's been a little bit of criticism that we haven't got a men's Ashes Test in the north. There is the women's Ashes Test and also some criticism that's been around about the pricing of some of those Ashes Test matches. With all of this conversation about cricket becoming the most inclusive sport, where does that all fit together?

The reality is we are the only national sport that travels around the country. We don't have a Wembley or a Twickenham, so it's great that we play everywhere. Headingley is a very important ground historically. Some of the best games of cricket anyone can ever remember have been at Headingley. Uh, Trent Bridge haven't hosted a Test match for 12 years, an Ashes Test for 12 years. The Utilita Bowl here have never hosted an Ashes Test. We have 7 great venues but only 5 Test matches in an Ashes series, so there will always be 2 that miss out. And it was effectively Headingley's turn. They have had consecutive Ashes Tests. They will be hosting the Women's Ashes along with white-ball cricket as well. The previous way that matches were allocated were on blind bids, and that created enormous financial tension throughout the game. So I think the process we have now, which is based on rotation, is fairer. It might not be ideal, but the reality is it's fairer than what we had before. And, and there are 2 venues, one that's never hosted an Ashes Test and another that hasn't hosted one for 12 years. And Trent Bridge has hosted some incredible Test cricket. So it's got heritage and we do well at Trent Bridge normally, and I hope we will next year. So, and in terms of ticket pricing, I think Ashes is our World Cup. It's for every 4 years. It's the most premium series that we play. The demand is extraordinary. The statistics that I saw today, our ballot is 3 times higher than it was for the previous period for the last Ashes. So we're 3 times higher for the number of people registering to buy a ticket. The demand is extraordinary. Having chaired Surrey, Ashes is always an opportunity for people to join that county, and Surrey, along with other counties now, use the Ashes as an opportunity to get longer-term engagement. So for instance, if you were a Warwickshire member or others and you are a member of Warwickshire, which you could become, you get 20% discount off that ticket. So it isn't the headline price you see, it's an opportunity to join that county and actually become more engaged Beyond the Ashes, you know, you would also say that probably some of the best cricket I've seen are on days 4 and 5, where the ticket price is a fraction of what day 1 is. So given previous experience, I'd be surprised if the majority don't go 4 or 5 days, in which case, you know, there is an opportunity to come on another occasion. But we do have 4 formats of the game. We have lots of other cricket that we can engage people with at way, way lower ticket prices that speak very much to becoming the country's most inclusive sport. £20 to come and watch the Women's Ashes, £25 to watch a Hundred match. So in that case, as long as you have a portfolio of different formats, different matches, you make sure there's something there for every pocket. But in an ideal world, you want, you want that, you know, people to come and watch and be inspired by an Ashes Test match. So the hope is they do go 5 days and some of the days 3, 4, and 5 prices are far lower.

Is men's Test cricket affordable to the population that you feel that you want to attract to cricket?

Well, given this summer, the demand has been extraordinary.

But the demand has been extraordinary from those that can afford it. Is it affordable?

I think it is affordable. I think it's affordable in the sense of both demand and the fact that the majority of people that watch Test cricket are members of that county. And it doesn't cost very much to become a member of many of those counties and then receive rewards for that and get discounts, be the first to be able to get the seat you want. So I think it's chicken and egg. We want people to not just come to one Ashes every 4 years, we want people to come to Test cricket every year, and they can do that in a far more affordable way if they join a county.

What about the summer more generally? It's felt that, you know, you go back to the start of it, Richard, you think, well, Ben Stokes is captain of the Test side. Brendan McCullum's coached the Test side. A lot's happened since then. Do we need a bit of calm amongst it all?

Um, I think we've got that calm now. We've just won a series 3-0, uh, and we've got a new coach in country. The first thing he did was to start visiting the counties, so Steven's now here. But he was very involved behind the scenes around Pakistan team selection, tactics, strategy. So he's very, very engaged. I think what we now have Between white ball with Harry and Baz in white ball, as we've seen, we probably had one of the best white ball summers I can ever remember. I mean, against India, we were extraordinary. I know it got overshadowed by their other events. Our white ball form is on another level, and so as much as there's been a lot of upheaval, there has been a lot of stuff that's gone incredibly well but been overshadowed by other events, which is incredibly frustrating and. You know, when players behave in a certain way which is totally unacceptable, you know, they need to understand when you put an England jumper on or you represent your country, it comes with responsibility. And people and players need to understand what that responsibility means.

We've had that message many times before and still it keeps happening.

I think these issues, when you say it keeps happening, I mean, the reality is we've had a particularly challenging 12 months. And there have been isolated incidents. There's been way more than there ever should have been. But the reality is that we are correcting this now. We've made some very significant changes, and you've seen the changes that have played out, and they have ensured that, you know, corrective action is there. And also, players now absolutely know how to behave.

It has been quite the summer in many ways, and it is finishing, and there's still plenty left of it.

Well, in this game particularly, I mean, we've got a great series against Sri Lanka, the Hundred series. You know, the new 100, the reset threw up, you know, significantly higher numbers than we've ever seen on television before. Comfortably the best quality 100 I think we've seen in terms of players. The Women's World Cup was absolutely fantastic. Shame to have lost against Australia, but the volume of cricket in grassroots cricket, we've never seen volume like it in women and girls. We're overtrading in some areas, so the game is in very rude health. At the moment we're seeing very significant growth. We're the only team sport to be growing between ages of 14 and 16, and I think we've got a lot to be looking forward to, and we can't wait to get out to South Africa. We've got Pakistan before that, and we've got 2 World Cups next year.

Well, that was Richard Thompson with Henry Moran. Our next live cricket is at 10:25 on Sports Extra, where the exciting climax of the County Championship continues with Somerset chasing what could be a critical victory in their attempt to win the title for the first time. They need 214 more runs on the final day to beat Yorkshire with 7 wickets in hand. And Kevin Howells has been watching at Headingley.

Well, Stephen Fleming has been here at Headingley today, England's new head coach of the Test side, and the list of players on his need to look at and talk about in this game could be quite a long one. But he can't help have noticed what a compelling match this has become and its narrative in the who will be crowned champions of 2026 next week. With Warwickshire at the top, watching and listening on with their feet up, having already won their game inside 2 days away to Essex, it's been a challenging 3rd day for their rivals Somerset here in Leeds and Nottinghamshire away at Sussex. In fact, at Hove, the Nottinghamshire defence of the title appears to be dangerously slipping. Notts have been scrambling around for runs in their 2nd innings, and eventually they got to the close in some trouble. at 149 for 7, which is a lead over Sussex of just 31 runs. Now Somerset, still searching for their first ever Championship title, will resume the final day here in Leeds at 73 for 3. That's 214 runs off the target, knowing a win will take them back above Warwickshire at the top of the table with a week to go. It's Tom Abel and Tom Lammamby at the crease. And I've been talking at the close of play today to Tom Abel's best man in his forthcoming wedding. He's a former teammate And now with Yorkshire, Dom Bess, who with George Hill earlier on in this 3rd day managed a partnership of 166 for the 7th wicket, setting up this enthralling finish.

Uh, I think it's a really exciting game, isn't it? Um, uh, it's been, uh, topsy-turvy, I guess, uh, with us being 50 for 6, um, George and I able to get put on 156 It certainly wasn't easy. There's quite a few balls out there. Obviously fellow club, a lot of lads I know and get on really well with got stuck into me last night for quite a while and this morning and then yeah, got through it nicely and then we've set a beautiful total. I think if they go on and get it, they've got to get the highest score in the game. I think the pitch, there's plenty left in there. I think it started spinning. Got a world-class spinner in Kuldeep and myself. And then, yeah, we— I think it's gonna be a great day of cricket, and hopefully we get on the, get on the right side of it.

That 166 partnership for the 7th wicket, you and George, you must be immensely proud of that. Hard work, hard graft out there. 6 down in that recovery.

Yeah, great. Anthony McGrath this morning spoke about character, spoke about Today being a massive day in our journey for not only the sort of last 2 games here, but start of next year and how we go about it. Obviously, we can't win anything this year, but it gets to that point in the year where you've got to play for something, and we're playing for what we can now do, disrupt potential champions. We obviously play Notts next year— next week, sorry. So we've got a lot to still play for, and we can put— if we can put the spanner in some works with it all, I think we'll be, we'll be really proud of our achievements. But like I said, come back to us, it's more about what we can take away now this year going forward and obviously moving into next year. And like I said, 166 partnership being 5 for 60, Mags asked for it and And I'm grateful that myself and George could do it.

But you know, a Yorkshire win over Somerset, mathematically it's still possible. You know they've never won the title before. You'll have had that rammed down your throat when you were down there for year after year after year. What are you playing at against your old team?

Yeah.

Seriously, I mean, you love the place, you love the players. I mean, we know how close you are to one because you'll be best man and all that sort of stuff. So just how difficult is it?

No, I don't think it is at all. I think it's, it's quite the opposite. Um, I never won it there. Um, so, and I play for Yorkshire now, and, and the way, um, I guess I, I don't know, it probably brought something out in me if I'm honest. Um, I think Craig, Craig actually made me laugh out there. He said to me, um—

This is Craig Overton.

Craig Overton, sorry. He said to me Bloody hell, I've never seen you bat like this ever before, so serious. And actually I thought, yeah, you're probably right actually, because it means a hell of a lot to me. Again, obviously getting a first ball of first innings, some of the Somerset fans sort of laughed me off and that, and I sort of took that not personally, but I was like, right, well, next time it's not going to be as easy as that. Yeah, and they were sort of saying, are you doing it for the— for us sort of thing? And I thought, nah, that's— I'm not having that. I'm certainly not having that for next time round.

Stephen Fleming's been here today, the new head Test coach of England. Cheeky. Have you seen him? Has he spoken to you?

No. Okay.

No, Michael Vaughan has been talking about you. I don't know if you're aware of this. So Michael Vaughan, earlier in the week, he mentioned Jack.

Yeah, of course.

But he brought you into the frame here, um, and he's saying that a few— his view, 4 or 5 years ago, you perhaps were not ready for England. You are a much better player now and you're ready. A couple of thoughts on that. What does that mean to you that Michael Vaughan might be saying that? And to what extent do you agree with any of that?

Uh, I, I think I'm a lot better cricketer now, and there's confidence in, in what I say. Um, I know what I can do. I think obviously today probably showed, and last week showed, what I can do with the bat as well. So yeah, the big thing though for me is it's been a hell of a journey so far. And like I said, I'm only 29. I always remember actually Rooty saying to me that obviously Graeme Swann came back in at 29. And I always remember being sort of like 22, 23, being like, well, now I'll I want to do, I want to do it, I want to sort of do it, and you rush things. And actually, I've had a hell of a journey here at Yorkshire. We've been through a hell of a lot. And, um, and yeah, like I said, I've, I've gone back to sort of focusing on myself and working hard. I mean, it's tough bowling, um, up here. It is tough. And yeah, it would probably make me better. I think batting, um, it's also tough up here. But, um, again, we've had some hell— like, very good cricketers, some proper cricketers that I've spoken to, played with, played against, and learned from. So So yeah, it's obviously for me, speaking about myself, it's great. But again, it is what it is. I think there's some really good cricketers out there. There's a hell of a lot of good cricketers out in the county game. But like I said, it comes back to what I do for Yorkshire. And if I can continuously churn and get, I guess, get into winning positions and, and have an impact with bat, ball, and in the field. I think that's all I can strive for. And, um, I mean, the way that Mags has backed me, Anthony McGrath, head coach, Mickey Lewis has helped with my bowling, and John Sadler has helped with my batting, um, I feel like I've become a very good cricketer. Yeah.

Size of challenge, if I may put it this way, size of challenge for your former team Somerset to win this game tomorrow?

Uh, they've got to bat very well. Someone's got to go and dig in and get some runs. I think, do you know what, if they go and do it, credit to them, shake hands at the end, and I'll wish them all the best. However, there's a, there's a day tomorrow where I'll be doing everything I can to make sure that that does not happen.

Well, thanks to Kevin. So that County Championship commentary continues on 5Sports Extra at 10:25, and look out for commentary on the Women's and Men's One Day Cup finals this weekend. As well as the third T20 between England and Sri Lanka on Saturday, with our coverage live from 2:15 PM.

This is the TMS podcast from BBC Radio Five Live.

So much sport today, but all the goals as they go in up and down the league.

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He serves down the same.

And that'll do it! Oh, the right hand! And the former champion is down! It's extraordinary stuff. They've put on a show for us tonight. And he gets on his knees and kisses the turf.

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