View from the Boundary - Count Binface aka Jon Harvey.

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The TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

So as promised, it's our final view from the boundary of the summer. I can't believe you're actually saying that. And as always, we've had an eclectic mix of guests this year. We had the former head of MI6, the governor of the Bank of England, a comedy impressionist, a Red Roses World Cup winner, a soap opera star, and an award-winning journalist. But it's to the world of politics that we turn today. We've represented all hues over the years. Guests on TMS— Andy Burnham, Rishi Sunak, Nigel Farage, and many others— have all been guests. But Today we go to the political figure who this summer increased the share of the vote in by-elections by 13,400%. He finished second to Nigel Farage in the recent Clacton by-election with 27% of the vote, which is not bad for an intergalactic space warrior who dresses as a bin. So it's a very warm welcome to Count Binface, also of course known as the comedy writer and performer John Harvey. It's lovely to have you. I should explain that you are actually here as John.

Yes.

And you're not wearing your bin.

No, sadly not. Although, as you're saying, I would have fitted very nicely in the Holly stand.

Well, you would, because people would have just thought you were just out there watching the cricket.

Exactly. It's one of the few places I'd be anonymous.

Well, I'm hoping maybe next summer for the Ashes I might get a few. Look, I know you love cricket, but I mean, we've got to start first of all. I mean, what's your life been like over the last few weeks? It's just been meteoric, isn't it?

Well, indeed, meteors abound.

Firstly, I've just got—

I've got to apologize I do want to apologise to my wife Sarah, who will be listening, because it's actually our wedding anniversary.

Oh, today?

Today, right now. And we were going to be going for a lovely brunchy breakfast, but your esteemed producer Adam made the wise call yesterday that the match might not last till Friday.

Has she forgiven you?

She has. So we've shifted. Yeah. But I wanted to say sorry for that. But because it's just another example of it's been— I can't make plans this summer because next thing I know there'll be another by-election.

Well, it's quite— it does demonstrate your love of cricket that actually you've forsaken your—

I mean, absolutely.

Absolutely. It's one of the— it's the only thing. Yeah, yeah.

So what has it been? I mean, you know, did you have any idea? I mean, the McAfee thing was one thing. There you are with Andy Burnham and all that. But the Clacton one was a bit different, wasn't it? I mean, with no other senior, you know, people standing and a recognized party or whatever, suddenly you get projected. You know, people thought you're going to win for a while.

Well, that was never going to happen. Well, if you look at the 10,000 votes he got, he would have had to do— by he, we mean, uh, Mr. Farage— he would have had to do something cataclysmic to overturn it because it's such a sort of Brexity, yes, reform-friendly seat. So I, I never entertained the idea. I mean, I would have quite happily done it, but, uh, but it— yeah, it was a perfect storm because, um, Makerfield— the only thing— some— the thing with Binface is sometimes it goes viral when a moment happens. So there was this interview with Sky News. And the chap John Craig interviewed me. I didn't know who Binface was, which is perfect because I can say, you know, do you not? Who do you think I am? Look at look at your list.

Yes.

And so that went that went crazy online. And so Binface I think was in the ether a little bit. And then when Farage called this surprise by-election, and then the other parties didn't stand, I was like nature and politics both abhor a vacuum. And and all I did was tweet a joke. Three words. I said game on, Nige.

Oh.

And the newspapers and the media then basically said it must be a mano a bino. It's been face Farage. Of course, there ended up being 34 candidates, but that's the thing that captured the imagination. And, you know, when in Rome.

But 10,000 people voted for— do I say you or him, by the way? Both.

I mean, you know, well, I suppose I'm like a rubbish Bruce Wayne in more ways than one, in that I'm not rich. People start to know who I am, like, I'm doing this, Bruce Wayne wouldn't do that. And I dress as a trash can. So yes, it's very much that it's him, really. It does feel like an out-of-body experience because the character— it's when I put the bin on, the character pours out.

It does. It really does. You actually feel as if you are somebody else when you pull the bin on.

A bit. It's like that. I always think it's like the Jim Carrey movie The Mask, in that it's sort of— when I first did it, it was kind of an accident. that originally the plan was just to see if it would be fun and just to prove you could still do it. And we could talk about how that all happened, but then once I started doing it, I realized, oh, I could start making jokes and I could start doing songs and sketches and policies. And so it just sort of spewed forth organically. And I think that's sort of— there's a bit of heart to it, which I've always loved.

And the voice? I don't recognize your voice as being Binface's voice.

Which is—

I mean, you've got proper improper impressionists have been on your show. I'm, I'm not the world's best, but some people have said like, have you got, have you got like a voice changer in the bin? And I don't. It is literally just me wrecking my throat with this strange voice. It was the first voice I could think of.

Yeah.

And you do it every time. Yeah. Okay, before we move on to cricket, say, but what, what's, what's in the bin? I mean, is it, is it a comfortable thing to wear?

I mean, what, what, what do you think?

Well, I think it's probably incredibly uncomfortable, but you, you wander around and you look, you're looking, you're looking all right. I mean, to put it to Is it lined? Is it? Is it?

No, nothing. It's it's a bin. It's an actual bin.

Nothing inside it.

It's horrible. We there are some wires at the top because we were trying to me and my friend Tom. We tried to make a little LED light for the the sort of visor eye thing.

Right.

But we've never got round to finishing it, and occasionally the wire will fall down during an interview and hit me in the eye while I'm trying to talk to a politician. Apart from that, it's just a bin with a little bit of fishnet stockings in the in the mouth hole, which I try and see through, which like it's.

The visibility is literally sits on his shoulders. Yeah, that's it.

That's it. With a sort of children's American football pads underneath.

Well, more of that to come up, John. But I mean, you're like a kid in a candy shop here because, you know, to come— is it your first day of cricket you said this year?

Yeah.

Yeah. Because you've been so busy.

I try and come to cricket every summer. But yeah, this because of the 2 by-elections, I haven't had a chance. And I mean, I love Edgbaston. I've been here a couple of times. T20 finals day in the Hollies. You can't beat that mascot race. That's one obviously that's big for me. Well, you could win. I could win. I could win that.

I reckon you could be in it.

Exactly.

Exactly. I wonder which which which team you'd you'd represent.

Whoever whoever wants me is like Eurovision. I'm a gun for hire.

Do you think anyone would want you?

No. No word. Maybe minor counties. Cornwall. Are they? Do they get represented in the mascot race?

Maybe. Well, I don't. I don't know if they do. But but where did it start? I mean. Your love of cricket, how did that begin then?

Since as long as I can remember. Before I had my own memories, I was told I would be playing cricket with my brother in the garden, taking as long a run-up as possible in our small garden, pretending to be Ian Botham.

I don't know how I knew.

Ian Botham must have stuck in a sort of 3-year-old's mind. So that was the start in like the early '80s. And then we'd play at school with a, you know, a bin for a wicket, ironically.

Right.

A clipper bat. Do you remember them?

Yes, I do.

And a wind ball, that kind of thing. And then, um, I remember when TMS hit me. I was about 9 years old and my dad would have it on in the car. And when you're not used to cricket, when you're a child, it sounds like gobbledygook. And then the applause happens. Why are they clapping? What's going on? It's just men talking. And then dad would be like, no, no, no, you'd stick with this. And we'd get home and he'd put the TV coverage on. And then suddenly it clicked. And I think it must have been the '89 Ashes.

Right.

When obviously England were dreadful.

It wasn't too good.

No, but then Terry Alderman was like the most famous man in the world. That's right. You know, and so it stuck then. And then I played a bit at secondary school. And I have an unusual distinction, which is a golden duck is your first ball out in an inning. I was out my first ball ever in that I was 11 years old.

That's disappointing.

And my own maths teacher gave me out. LBW. Aged 11.

Was it probably out or not?

Well, I think it was going down leg. But I was 11. But the team was 19 all out. So I think we had this—

to do that, isn't it?

Yeah, I think so.

First ball you've ever faced.

Yeah, I think a platinum duck, I call it. It's one step up.

Yeah. Did you ever get over that, or—

No, not quite.

Well, I—

then the next year I got into the school team, and I, I was a left-arm spinner. My hero was a certain, uh, P.C.R. Tuffnell. I even had the little skip in my run-up, which is all modeled on—

Did you?

Yeah, on Tuffers. Uh, record, uh, figures: 6 for 13, including one horrendous pea roller, which I'm I'm still ashamed about, but he's a wicket. And I got 17 wickets, age 12. And then the next season they didn't pick me, and I still don't know the reason. If Mr. White, the teacher, is listening, I'm still waiting. And so I moved into more like writing and music, and maybe that was the better for the team.

And yeah, yeah, fancy modeling on Tuffers. I mean, there's no other part of Tuffers' life that you'd necessarily followed, is there?

The path? Thankfully not. Although he's a dab hand at the arts these days.

Actually, he is, you know. No, no, he is. And did you go and watch county cricket or Test cricket, or we you were a keen enthusiast from that point of view?

Well, on the TV, I mean, my summer holiday, because we were lucky then because we could watch it on the telly. It was all on the TV. Even walking around Edgbaston today, you see things like, you know, Warwickshire winning the Sunday League, and even the Sunday League was on Sunday Grandstand. And so I'd watch that, you know, pajama cricket, we'd call it.

Peter Walker.

Yeah, all that kind of stuff. I'd drink it all in. And then I remember my first ever match I went to was '96, the Lord's Test, England-India. Watching Athas out after, I think, five balls, naught for one. You know, it was in the the the deepest of the doldra of that era, and but I I was hooked.

You know, but why? What is it about cricket for you that does it then?

I think there's there's something about this. There's the richness to it, and there's the toing and froing. And I think also as an England fan who grew up in the nineties when you're so starved of success, the smallest of joy of can, can make, um, you so happy in a way. I mean, I've written about Tuffers, that match in '97 when he sort of outspun Warnie.

Yes, and he still— he does talk about that.

And so he should. And, and, and, or Devon Malcolm's just walked past. And, um, that, the game at the Oval against, um, South Africa, that meant so much. It may be even more to me as a fan back then than some— but then we've been spoiled by England being quite good. You know, Alistair Cook, I believe, ruined it by being, you know, one of the best batsmen of all time. You know, we never deserved that in those days. You'll know. You know, so I remember when we did get those wins, it was so precious. And probably the best moment ever for me was, remember, was it the 100th Test match at Lord's in 2000? England played the West Indies, and I think it was the only match, or one of the only matches, where all 4 innings—

Correct. Occurred on the same day.

Yep.

I went to the day after with my brother Dan, and there was a huge pitch invasion, very rare at Lord's. And we found ourselves walking next to Curtly Ambrose and Courtney Walsh as they just lost this match. We just want to say, well played. They gave us this look of thunder.

Keep away.

Yeah, because, yeah, but, uh, but we were just like cock-a-hoop. So something, a bat and ball game, particularly cricket, when cricket is great, like the, the World Cup finals, you know, 2017 and 2019, There is literally nothing like it.

No, there's also something I suspect that appeals to the sort of comedic side of you about English cricket, isn't there? Because I mean, we do, we do, we do find fun in the fact that we have been terrible and awful things happen to English cricket, and somehow that, that does become an element of fun, doesn't it?

And well, and it's a sport that likes to take the mickey out of itself. You know, TMS is classic, that some people say it's better during the breaks, when the rain's gone, suddenly the viewing, the listening figures go up because people want, they want to hear about you and cake and the correspondence. And so because it's got this hinterland and other sports are so on the clock, you know, a football match, you can fit it in a little bit, but there isn't that room for the character and the nuance that I think especially long-form cricket can give you.

Yeah. Is that your favorite? Test matches?

Absolutely. I mean, we were just saying off air, there's something slightly heretical about us having a Test match in mid-September when, you know, August should be sacrosanct, uh, for Test in, in my humble opinion. But, you know, I know the game's got to move on, but, um, yeah, when, when you're here watching, you know, England-Pakistan and it's not full, yes, yes, it is a bit of a worry.

Yeah.

So, I mean, do you watch the shorter form? Do you go and watch the T20s? The Hundred? Do you watch the Hundred?

I try to. I mean, I, I had tickets for the Hundred when before the pandemic, and it was all going to be in different grounds. Um, there was going to be a game in Beckenham, which is right next to where I was living at the time, and I was all set for it. And then, then obviously COVID happened, and afterwards we had our first child and moved out to the countryside. It hasn't been possible. In fact, this is such a blizzard of cricket these days that you kind of get lost in it. If you ask me who won the Hundred this year, I'm ashamed to say I couldn't tell you.

Do you?

Who did win though?

Oh, I can't remember now.

Yeah, exactly. See, that's my point.

Totally agree with you. I mean, I love all forms of cricket, I really do, but there's just no comparison between the memories that are created from Test matches to the very short form, which is entertainment. It's instant and great, but it is fleeting.

Yeah.

And I reckon I can remember something about most of the 400-odd Test matches that I've seen, with a bit of a prod.

Yeah.

These days perhaps, but not, not the shorter form. I've enjoyed watching them and commentating on them, and they've been exciting finishes, But the game that you put on the telly today looks very much like the game that you watched yesterday and the day before that, except they're wearing different colours.

That's it.

So, but if it gets, if it gets people interested in cricket, that's, that's, then that's, that's great.

And if an alien came down, I'm not naming names here, they might turn around and say, well, hang on, so you've got a form of the game of cricket where there's a result in a relatively short amount of time, what's, what's there to complain about? But I'm, the older I get, the more I realise that part of the joy of cricket is nothing to do with the results. And that obviously other cultures might not understand that a game which is 5 days long and ends in a draw can be the most thrilling spectacle. And no logic— if you don't understand cricket, that makes no sense whatsoever. But I think maybe there is this more— whether it's capitalism or Americanization or whatever it is— that people crave a result at the end of a set amount of time that has maybe inevitably pushed us in that direction. Yes.

Do you feel also that actually, particularly with youngsters, we're kind of telling them that they've all got short-form memories and actually they're thinking, well, no, that's not true? Because we have a lot of students who listen when they're revising and so on, but they keep being told, well, you know, you haven't got the concentration that you used to have or the patience that you used to have. Everything's got to be instant, instant, instant. I'm not sure that's actually totally true, actually. I mean, we— but I'll say our students revising, they love listening. Especially when we're away in Australia or whatever, commentating during the night, and there they are listening to Test matches.

I think that's true. I think sports fans listen to what's served up to them. And I think if there was a Test series in August instead of The Hundred, I think people would be very merrily enjoying that. Because that's not on, people will enjoy The Hundred instead. And it's not something— The Hundred's still packing out grounds. It's not that it's— it's clearly not a failure, but it's just for me, I think if you're from the generation beforehand, you know, and I, I sort of wish I'd seen more 4-day cricket in the county era when I was, when I was a kid, you know. I feel like you, it's not quite what it was, you know, the overseas professionals and—

Sure. How it was, the big one-day finals. Yeah, great packing out Lords.

Yeah, this, it still happens to a, to an extent, but, um, I guess again sport has to move on. But you talk about, you know, attention spans, but One minute we talk about how fans have got just as long attention spans as ever, but these days we're as much put the microscope on the players and it's can can Harry Brook sure keep it keep it back for a session without playing a silly shot. Yeah, yeah. So it's maybe it's something that's afflicting players and fans.

I don't know.

You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio Five Live.

Let's get into comedy, can we? Because that's clearly what you do do. You've written for some great programs and been involved as a wonderful.

things.

Um, how did all that start? I mean, were you a bit of a sort of a bit of a pain at school and a bit of a naughty boy and, and funny, or you've always been a funny person, or is it just something you just kind of switch into?

I was an inordinate swot at school.

But you're a classicist actually, aren't you?

Yeah, so I went to university and studied classics and loved it. And, uh, I know a lot of bad people in public life have done that, but I, I loved it and studied actually ancient satire as part of that. So I wanted to find out where jokes came from. And I, I was brought up on ancient satire. Yeah, sort of Juvenal and Persius and Horace and Aristophanes in Athens. And some of the jokes obviously have aged poorly, but some of them, like, you think, my goodness me, we're still doing the same tricks now. I mean, I was learning about how this writer Juvenal was writing supposedly in a masked form of himself, and 20 years later I'm kind of wearing a mask myself. I had no idea that would happen, but it all started with sitcoms. My dad and my brother— these are days when in the '80s we had one TV, but piles of VHS tapes recorded off the telly, and I was just fed a diet of Fawlty Towers, Only Fools and Horses, but then the spicier stuff, The New Statesman, Blackadder, you know, the election episode of that.

Oh, isn't that hilarious?

Standing at the back.

All in that accent.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I'm betting that's the vote I was looking for, effectively. Who would I know? I'd end up being the standing at the back dressed stupidly looking stupid party. So that's how it kind of started. It was in the back of my brain. Then I joined the BBC after finishing university as a sort of tea boy and did various jobs, a bit of a strange couple of years, and then found myself working as a journalist with zero journalistic qualifications in the newsroom. And I didn't enjoy it. And I was like, I love news, why am I not finding this fun?

Yeah.

And so instead I just wanted to— I could feel feel the urge to take the mickey then. And I happened to meet Armando Iannucci at the same time, the legendary producer of The Thick of It.

Yeah.

And he was making a series called Time Trumpet at the time where they needed tons and tons of news footage. This is pre-YouTube. So where do you get it from? I found a cupboard in the BBC newsroom where the cameramen would stick all the tapes after they'd been filming. And so I would, at the end of a shift on BBC Breakfast, I'd nick them and I'd go up 2 floors and copy them like in the old days on my VHS recorder. And then on my days off, watch through these sort of— it'd be like David Cameron visiting Asda and just hunting for a funny moment. And then I found this amazing clip of him clocking the camera as he tries to demonstrate he's wearing this England World Cup bracelet to show he loves football. Yeah. And then that— it all started from there. So from Armando, then I got slingshotted into comedy and then sort of never looked back.

Yeah. And I suppose politics is easy game, is it, for For comedians?

Yes. Well, you know, they make it easy in the sense that I think, as the thick of it proved, you know, they're on a hiding to nothing.

Yeah.

Um, particularly British politics. There is, there's a wonderful naffness about it which is so important that we keep, you know, compared to the money that is like running through, say for example, American politics. And, um, you know, it is, it's always been gaffe-prone and it always will be gaffe-prone. And so I think people enjoy seeing big figures brought down to size. And so the original point of doing this, because Count Binface, originally I did Lord Buckethead.

Correct.

Yeah, before I had to rename it. And part of it was just to prove that you still could. And that I always thought it was fantastic. I don't know if listeners agree that, that we are unique as a country to have that moment on election night where whether it's the Prime Minister or the Foreign Secretary or a far-right leader is supposed to stand on a stage next to anybody who's been brave enough to put themselves forward. It's the, it's the great level. Suddenly we're the bosses just for that moment.

Yeah.

And they, they are held to account, pun intended.

There's still that image of Margaret Thatcher standing alongside Buckethead.

That's it. Well, so this is it. So what happened was me and my friend Tom, who I— we were making sort of comedy sketches at university, and he did classics as well. We Our great hobby is finding the worst films ever, like the ones that are unintentional genius. And we've been watching these for like 25 years, and we watched this sort of rather shonky sci-fi film from 1984 called Gremloids, which sounds like a cream.

It does, actually.

But it was actually like the first ever Star Wars parody, so 3 years before Mel Brooks did Spaceballs. And this character in it is a sort of Darth Vader clone with a bucket on his head. He's only called the Leader in the film. It's only in the credits it says Lord Buckethead. And I just looked it up on IMDb after we'd watched the film, which is not good. And it said, did you know someone dressed up as Lord Buckethead against Margaret Thatcher in '87 and John Major in '92? And we thought, wouldn't it be funny to bring him back 25 years later? And so when Theresa May called that snap election, we thought, let's roll the dice.

This is it.

Yeah.

And what's the process? I mean, if you want to— if you actually want to stand in a by-election—

Are you interested?

No, no, I don't know. I don't think so. But if you want to stand as Buckethead or Binface or whatever, what is the process? How do you actually go about the actual whole process of getting into this?

It's astonishingly simple. To stand for election is really simple. So to do that, so the base level, all you need is 10 people in the constituency to nominate you, to sign your form, £500. So, you know, raid your piggy bank.

Right. So you know that you've lost that, basically.

Yeah, well, until the end of the vote.

Until Clacton. Money. Exactly.

Yeah. I mean, that's unheard of.

Actually kept your deposit.

Yeah. I mean, on aggregate, I'm down. But, and then that's pretty much it. But what Tom and I did was we thought it'd be much funnier if Binface had a party. So there is actually a Count Binface party. And the main reason for that is when you get your ballot paper, you'll know when you go into the election that all the independent candidates, it just says their name. You only get the logo if you're a party, and we were desperate for a lovely little bin to be on the list. So you pay your £25 subs for the year, and, um, so the Count Binface party is, is a real thing. And so it's not, it's not that hard.

Have you sort of examined yourself and wondered why you do this?

Not enough.

Do you know what I mean?

Is this where we're going?

Have you thought, what, what is it about dressing up as a bin? you're not sort of worried, worried in some way about yourself?

Well, yeah, a bit. And because it is, it's like an out-of-body experience.

Is it?

Yeah, because I saw Andy Burnham doing PMQs yesterday and I have to pinch myself that 8 weeks ago I was talking to him about nationalising Adele and renaming HS2 FFS1. And he was quoting these back at me, you know. Yeah. So I think there is a Batman element to it that if I, if it was me like now, saying these policies to you, I don't think anyone would give me the time of day. It's about— what does Christian Bale say? It's about if you become an idea, you know, that there's something about binface, the idea that this alien is occasionally saying sensible things like he's going to build at least one affordable house.

Yes.

And then the next minute is saying, I'm going to cut your taxes and raise everyone else's and, and price cap croissants at £1.10. And journalists and other political parties, they They kind of love it, actually. And I've been so touched by the way that, with a couple of exceptions, people have really embraced it, including even the police and the councils. They get it and they really want to make it happen for me.

Something very British about it, isn't there? I mean, could it happen anywhere else?

No, I don't think so. That's why we've had all this attention. I've had Japan, Australia, Germany— they've all been asking to talk to Binface because they can't understand why we do it. But I think At a time in which people are wondering what does Britain still do well, this is— we are world leaders in taking the mickey out of ourselves.

Yes, and that's a good thing.

Totally. And I think it's wonderful that we can still, you know, there is a point behind it as well, that you can lift the lid on hypocrisy. And also the very fact that 1 in 4 people in Nigel Farage's constituency would rather be voted— would rather have as their MP an alien with a Ceefax fixation I think says a lot. And isn't it wonderful?

But it is. I mean, what's the future? What's the future for Bittenface? I mean, because now, I mean, it might be pushing it to say that you're taken seriously or he is. But I mean, you kind of are. 10,000 votes. Yes. 27%.

Yeah. The only way is up, as Gaz put it.

But you're on the way up.

Yeah.

Well, going up.

Your statistician, Mr. Saltzman, earlier was saying, you know, I'm on the fast track to 1,000%.

Exactly.

Exactly.

If it keeps going at that rate, I mean, which I suppose is unlikely, but I mean, what is I mean, has it, has it changed from being the original Buckethead and bin face and whatever? Has Clacton changed it in any way?

I think it is the only time when people were starting to try and out me on the internet. So there was like trolls were saying, this is who he is, and it wasn't me. It was like a strange AI person that looked sort of wonderful.

No, I didn't know what you looked like actually.

Well, sometimes your mates did, but Well, sometimes they'd— someone would— they'd take a picture of me and put me in clothes I've never worn, which was strange. And then sometimes they'd find a picture which was just like— looked like Jeremy Renner crossed with Nick Knowles. And I'm like, well, that's not me. So I thought, well, I'll, I'll say who I am. So I did a piece in the Times about it.

Right.

I mean, no, I don't know.

I read that.

Oh, okay.

Well, that's— of course, I think—

I still think nobody in the Holly Stand's gonna— they're gonna pick me out of a crowd. So I don't think it's changed a huge amount, but I feel like I've gone from being a rubbish Bruce Wayne to a rubbish Tony Stark. In that I'm wearing it now, in the sense that I say it's me, hence talking to you right now. So I haven't really been hiding it, but I think it seems to have gone up a notch. But it's so hard for me to know. The fact that I'm talking to you on View from the Boundary means something must have happened.

Yes, it has. It just does connect. And it is very British and ridiculous. When you're on that platform, then you said you've been talking with Andy Burnham about nationalising Adele. I mean, is that actually happening on the stage?

I mean, you have the nationalisation. No, that would take time.

But when you, when you talk about, I mean, what's, what's their response? Because are they trying to get as far away from you as possible? Because the worst possible picture Andy Burnham could have that night was him standing next to you. So, I mean, is he kind of, you know, is he inching away? Are you deliberately shuffling into shot?

And I've never done that. He, he didn't actually. All he was really, he was really game for it, to be fair. And So he— we had a chat off, but offstage, as it were. That's when he was— he seemed to know about my policies, as did the Culture Secretary. I was like, what is this happening? This is strange. And then he'd said on the TV, he and the Lib Dem had joked that, um, alphabetically, Binface and Burnham would be next to each other on the ballot. Yes, of course. And so I, I did say to him, would he do me the, uh, the honour of honouring alphabetical order? And, and so he sort of trudged up next. But I don't know how much he wanted to be next to me and the man in the fox suit. Wherever a bin is, a fox is sure to follow. And so it's serendipity. The best one was when I was next to Boris Johnson in 2019 and the Washington Post, the paper that covered the Watergate scandal, had the caption next to me, me as an alien and Boris, and it said Boris Johnson brackets left, just to make it clear. But he was very chatty as well.

Was he?

Yeah, I spoke to him in Latin. It's the only thing I thought he'd understand.

And I mean, are you Because of a problem, I suppose you don't know what's coming up next, do you? I mean, are you going to just keep playing? What's the objective? What's the aim? The aim?

Yes.

What is the actual— I mean, everyone has a strategy.

Do they?

Well, don't they?

I'm surrounded by 1990s England cricketers.

Well, they had a strategy. They had an ambition to play for England. I mean, has Binface actually got an ambition? What is his ambition?

Well, his ambition is to conquer every planet in the omniverse, and he'll play the game that's at at hand.

So how's he going to do that?

Well, he will ideally win an election of some kind.

He will.

That is your aim.

I mean, if he does it, if you vote Bin, you get Bin. And I was on Newsnight and they revealed that MPs apparently have been spending time trying to work out how, if I was elected, how Binface could be allowed in the chamber. I mean, I think they might have better things to be worried about. But they apparently spend parliamentary time debating this. And so if it happens, like, you remember there was Hangus the Monkey, I think, was it mayor of Hartlepool? So there is a precedent. I mean, even Volodymyr Zelensky was a comedian. I mean, I'm not in his league.

Well, yes, but he was, wasn't he? And look at him now.

Yes, poor guy.

So there is a route. There is a route.

There's a way. It's possible. But I think beyond that, it's to continue to prove that there is a way. It's a The nicest thing I ever received. So a part of the reason I do it is it, um, it keeps the flame burning for my brother.

That's the thing. Yeah, I'll come on to that. I mean, you have, you know, there's all this funny side, obviously, but a fan for all seasons is a completely different kind of thing, isn't it?

Yeah, so I wrote a book. What happened was my brother Dan, who I— we, we were obsessed— sports, comedy, and politics. They, they obsessed— we were— we loved all of it. And then he very sadly passed away in 2015. He was only 43. He, uh, it was undiagnosed diabetes. I, I found him. Um, so it obviously things haven't been the same. My dad also passed away, um, prematurely 10 years before that. So there aren't any men in my family anymore, um, certainly older than me. And so the idea— Dan was a Palace season ticket holder. And so for a year, I inherited his season ticket. They got to the Cup Final in 2016 against Man United, the same thing that had happened in 1990 when he started his journey. And he'd had 25 years, he'd had this seat at the Palace.

That must have all felt very strange.

Very odd. And of course they nearly won it again. And since then they've been winning things, which feels, it feels so weird that they're now not useless. It's strange. But, um, I thought, what can I do? Because I'm a Spurs fan. So I, instead of maintaining his seat, I spent the money the next year on trying to see as much sport as I could. That included the 2017 World Cup Final, um, and I went to everything from the snooker to the darts to the World Rubik's Cube Championships. You, you name it, I went to it.

And is that a good watch?

It is. 3.9 seconds.

What?

They can do it. They can do it 30 seconds blindfolded. It's, it's incredible.

Blindfolded?

Blindfolded. Or indeed a minute with their feet.

It's—

come on.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's mad. So I did all of this stuff in, in Dan's sort of name, and then—

Yes.

And then it wasn't meant to be a book, but then a publisher said, oh, that sounds like an interesting story, so I wrote about it. But politics was the other thing that Dan loved, and so he's the one in '92, he was like, come on, John, let's go down to the Count in Croydon, it'll be great. I was like, no, it won't. But he, he got me into this, and so Binface is a— it's got his soul in it. The fact that his character loves Ceefax and Lovejoy and this kind of stuff. It's got— like, my brother runs through it like a stick of rock, really.

Wow.

So I'm doing it for him. There's a real personal edge as well as the— obviously, I hope it makes people laugh. I hope it proves that we can still take the mickey out of ourselves. And, uh, but yeah, there's a personal thing too. And the other thing which I love is, if this is widely felt, it would make my day. But one political journalist wrote— I think it was the last general election— he wrote a tweet which said that He asked his child, I think he was 10 years old, he said, do you know what happens on election day? And she said, yes, Daddy, that's when Count Binface comes. Like a sort of— like Father Christmas?

Yes.

And I like—

I'll take it.

Yeah. And like, now kids are writing my policies. I had a policy in the Clacton by-election, you know, about energy companies paying for solar panels for everyone. And that was genuinely sent to me by a boy called Jack, aged 10. So I asked, I said, can we have that in? He was like, yeah, brilliant.

So, uh, but isn't that, isn't that amazing that, that through all that Binface stuff, there is actually that, that really strong emotional thread going through it?

Yeah, I, I, it means it's heartfelt. It made it, it was very strange when the, um, when the Buckethead change happened, when this, the American producer of that film sort of wanted to own the character. And there was a point when I found myself against Boris Johnson, and I invented Binface as the obvious Lord Count Bucket, Bin, Head, Face. You know, that didn't take me very long.

No.

But I found myself taking on like a doppelganger Buckethead, and people thought that was me. So I was taking on myself as well as Boris. It was very strange. And, and so that it felt like that wasn't that— I'd like to think that didn't have the same heart that what I've been putting into it has. So now hopefully people know that there's, there's actually— there's a, you know, basically it's just a kid who loves silly, silly funny stuff.

But also, but you've just revealed that Bin Face has a bit of a soul, actually. There is something there. There is a soul there.

Oh yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, he's for the little guy. You know, he's a he's a he's a an outlander. He's like Namibia in the Cricket World Cup.

You know, should should having had this conversation, should should I look at him with any degree more seriously than I have done in the past or not? No.

No. Okay.

Hi.

That's a fool's error. I can only disappoint you. But you know, like I think people have loved the fact that. Out of nowhere, a character that usually gets 0.6% can get over a quarter of the vote. I think it's—I think it's hopefully captured people's.

I think he's going to do rather well from now on. John, it's been lovely to have met you. It really has, and you've had it. It has been extraordinary, and I've loved following it. I really, really have. It's been—it really has. It's been one of those crazy things that yeah, that we can still do. It's fantastic. Thanks for coming.

Oh, it's my pleasure. Honestly, this is this is the honor of my year.

Just one thought. I mean, England Ashes next year. Well, you just go back to cricket quickly. I mean, it's been a funny all year for England, hasn't it? I mean, yeah, I think comedians must have had a. A field day with what's been going on, on you know, on and off the field. Yeah.

What's your thought to it? It's a tale of two summers, isn't it? I I would love to see this England team be taking on New Zealand if only this was May. Yeah. And we had a summer ahead of us. I'd like because it feels like they're they're on the the straight and narrow now. Again, it feels like another trip that what happened at was it Trent Bridge with the Ben Stokes thing now feels like a fever dream that that could actually have happened.

It seems strange looking back at it, doesn't it? Yeah.

clearly a story yet to come out fully about all that, but, uh, maybe England's on the right track now. And I think everyone was a bit sad that Pakistan weren't putting up much of a fight, but now Razaullah— and yes, they've unearthed a diamond there. And, you know, the bowling we've been seeing so far today, it feels like maybe, maybe green shoots on both sides.

You can see him bowl in a moment. We're going to have some lunch. John, thank you so much for joining us. John Harvey, uh, Camp Binface, uh, there we go. Uh, a lovely 40 minutes. Thank you so much for coming, John.

The TMS Podcast. From BBC Radio 5 Live.

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