England continue hunt for new head coach & The Hundred preview

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.

How did a boy called Jimmy become a billionaire from posting videos?

On Good, Bad Billionaire, we're going to find out how the world's most popular YouTuber, MrBeast, made his fortune.

He's buried himself in a coffin for days, counted to 100,000 on camera, and even recreated Squid Games, all in an attempt to go viral on the internet.

But it all started when he gave a homeless man $10,000. So is he a philanthropist reshaping capitalism, or is he just the king of the attention economy. Find out on Good Bad Billionaire.

Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

You're listening to the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Well, hello, welcome to 5 Live Cricket. So much to get through over the course of the next hour. In a moment, we'll be getting stuck into England's search for a new test coach and captain, and then with The Hundred starting, we'll be going into the heart of the competition. A reminder, every ball of every game's on BBC Sounds. Before that, there is a lot to discuss, and that is primarily what is going on with the England men's Test side. Still without a coach, still without a captain, less than a month before the next Test series against Pakistan. Joining me to go through it all, former England spinner Phil Tufnell, London Spirit bowler Tamar Mills, and the Durham coach Ryan Campbell. Good evening to you all, gents. Tough as not to undersell your coaching credentials, but I'm going to ask Ryan, any any interest in the job, right?

Uh, me personally, uh, look, every coach I think around the world would love to coach England. Um, I think it's one of the great jobs in world cricket. But, um, look, I'm pretty busy at the minute at Durham, and I didn't get the phone call, so I'm assuming that I'm not on the list. So I think that's how it works nowadays— they ring you, don't you? Don't ring them.

Well, I think where we are with it all, it's worth remembering it's only a week ago on Sunday that Brendan McCullum was sacked as the Test coach. He's just led England to 2 white ball series wins over India. Since then, we've had Andy Flower, former coach, ruling himself out of the running. Former Australia coach Darren Lehmann laughed off the question after he'd led Northants to the T20 Blast title. And there's all sorts of contenders that we'll be discussing as we go. But Tuffers, first of all, I mean, there's rarely a dull moment following this England side, but a month to go, no coach, no captain. I mean, it's a bit of a mess.

Well, yes, it is a bit of a mess at the moment, that's for sure. And they've got a little bit of time on their side to sort it all out. Uh, great to see, um, England, you know, let's give credit where they're due. Um, T20 gone to number 1, fantastic. Um, ODI win against India as well. So that seems to be sort of like all going along pretty nicely, a nice working relationship with Brendon there and Harry Brook. But yeah, it's all a little bit of a mess. And listen, I Henry, you never know, I might throw my hat in the ring, you know. I mean, everyone else, there's, there's all these names being thrown around, and can this person work with that person, and what's it going to be like, you know, two different split coaches and everything like that. You're right, it is a little bit of a mess. It's got to be got hold of quickly. Thankfully, um, we don't play Pakistan until sort of like mid-August, so they've got a little bit of time up their sleeve.

Some of those names mentioned, Jonathan Trott, Justin Langer, Tom Moody, Stephen Fleming, Richard Dawson, all sorts of different names. Hey, Ryan, it's gonna take somebody who is able to work alongside Brendan McCullum as the white ball coach. I mean, that has got to be front and center of the thinking.

Yeah, of course. You know, it's an interesting situation, isn't it? Generally the main coach has done all formats in the past and in most places. I know Andrew McDonald in Australia was very, very clear with his thinking that when he took over, he wanted to take over all aspects. I think because you're delivering the same message, it doesn't matter what format, you're wanting to make sure players understand where you're from. But, you know, at the end of the day, there are lots of names thrown up. Um, I'm a bit with Darren Lehman, to be honest. I think they've got their number one candidate well and truly squared away. They're talking to whoever that is. I don't think you make a decision like they have done to say We're going to, Brendan, we're just going to, you know, let you do the white ball and not do Test cricket unless you've got someone in the gun, so to speak. So yeah, I'll be interested. I wouldn't be surprised if there's an announcement not too far away, to be honest.

Well, they're going to have to get on with it.

Sorry, but Henry, I thought that Andy Flower was their number one.

Well, he's ruled himself out, so—

Well, there you go. So are you saying that they're sort of like in the back of their minds for quite some time, Ryan?

Yeah, I reckon they would have known that Andy Flower didn't want the job. I have no doubt that once this— the word starts to get out, the thoughts start to wander that maybe it's time. Well, if you think about it, like, I think Brendan McCullum, love him or hate him, he changed English cricket. He did a great job for his 4 years. He tried to change things and do it different ways. So at least he did it his way. And as a coach, I think, you know, you've got to take your hats off and say, okay. But when there was, I guess, after the Ashes and they considered, do we stop now or do we go ahead and, you know, stick with him? I've no doubt that the notepads were starting to come out and the names of potential coaches were starting to be written down. And I've no doubt that they— a few phone calls and conversations were had. I have no doubt that someone like Andy Flower you know before you go into that conversation whether he's in or not. And I, I have no doubt they knew Andy was not the number one contender because he wouldn't have been able to get out of what he does.

So, so the reset, the reset then that was sort of like, you know, put out there to everyone after the Ashes, you, you don't think was really a reset then?

I, I was nervous. I think they didn't want to show panic in, in saying yes, they'd been beaten by Australia 4-1. I think if you want to throw it in the fire and say, let's start again, I, I'm a big believer in, you know, sometimes you got to go through a bit of pain to work out, okay, what went right and what went wrong. And I guess looking that man in the mirror to say, we need to change a few things. And I think they gave Brendan a chance to change a few things, and unfortunately the results didn't go his way. Now you have a situation which, you know, I'll be honest, I'm dealing with because I've got him here. Um, the captain is, is no longer the captain. So I guess there's two massive pieces of your puzzle that you have to now put together. And, um, yeah, I, I'm just saying, when one of those goes and you're thinking about taking the other one out, you've got to have a backup plan, surely. Like, as an organization, I think there's a backup plan A, B, and C. And now everyone to us, we all thought it was Andy Flower, maybe because that's who we think is the best coach, but I don't think he was the number one candidate. I, you know, I think there was a couple others who, whose, when their names will appear, perhaps they're the ones.

Timal, how unsettling is this for players?

Yeah, it will be. Obviously you want continuity, don't you? But these things do happen. As Ryan said, 4 years is a long time. That's quite a natural cycle in terms of, you could argue in terms of recycling in terms of a coach and a setup. So it's not like this is a, you know, some countries have a new coach every 6 months or so, don't they? But yeah, you want continuity, but I guess the unsettling nature is more so the captain's gone as well. You know, as you say, you're a month out from your next Test match and you don't have a captain or a coach. That's not an ideal place to be in. All of the, well, sorry, the vast majority of the players, involved England Test side are now in the hundreds. They've got a completely different kind of circumstance to, to deal with whilst knowing that this is coming up in the background. You know, we're all together now in changing rooms, on buses, everyone's talking, everyone's speculating. That's going to kind of run rampant for the next couple of weeks until we, you know, until we hear something more official. But one thing for certain is there's going to be a lot of people that want the job because it's, you know, it's one of the best jobs in in world cricket. And yeah, obviously the powers that be are under a little bit of pressure in terms of getting the right person, or at least what's perceived to be the right person.

Yeah, I want to get into whether it is a job that everyone would want shortly, but let's hear from the former England captain Sir Alistair Cook. He's been speaking about how England needs to approach appointing the next coach.

The first thing that it seems, as you know, Brendan's here to do the one-day side, is to be able to forge a relationship with Brendan McCullum. Because, you know, with Brendan McCullum and Mott, you know, one side flew and the other side people weren't quite so happy with. And that's going to be the real issue to get right, because if one side is— everyone's really happy and they're winning and it's a one culture, and then the other culture is so different and it's, you know, a diff— totally different, and the results don't go so well.

So what do you mean, the test team quite strict and then the one-day team quite free-flowing?

Well, I think Baz is not going to change his ways. Because he's quite clearly said, this is how I coach, and he's done it for 4 years. And if that's what the ECB want, and clearly they've got rid of him for one role, but they still want him around and they're quite happy for that, that's up to the leadership. So they're happy with it. So Brendan's not changing. So therefore, then trying to work out another coach who will come in, his idea is to then work, and then it splits the players. This is why it's such an important decision. And maybe I'm gonna say I'm a little bit different to Agus. They might have to go short-term for a year. They might have to go, right, because one short-term test coach, well, for a year or so, because Brendan at the minute, I mean, this is Brendan's contract at the end of the World Cup, which is a year's time. So, you know, you might have to then go for a coach who can work with Brendan McCullum for that year and they go, right, you've got with Brendan, you've got the World Cup and you've got the Ashes, you work out a plan and we're not too bothered about that. But they have to be able to work together, but not just be mates either. They can't just say be Steven Fleming because he's a mate of Brendan, then it works. Because I think it has been a bit too matey-matey and things have been allowed to happen. So this is why I don't mind. It might be short-term for a year and then they reassess, but it's so important that this decision is right.

It sounds no less clear after that from Sir Alistair Cook, Tuffers, because you're looking at a situation where there's going to be the sort of push and a pull between the white ball and the test coach when you're in a a year next year we've got Ashes going into a World Cup, and so what takes priority? What about workloads? All of these things. Oh yeah, it's complicated.

Well, as Ryan would know, you know, crikey, you want to be, you want to be the boss, you know what I mean? You want to have your right players, you want to be able to pick and choose, and as you say, workloads and all this kind of stuff. I, I don't mind what, what Cookie said there really. I, you know, as a bit of an interim coach, an experienced sort of safe pair of hands, and what I mind is then almost sort of promoting one of our own a little bit. A Richard Dawson, you know, a Jonathan Trott, someone there who can come in there. I wouldn't necessarily think that someone like that could come in there now, that would be a little bit of a hospital pass, but someone who could come in there. I, I like a number 2, you know what I mean? Perhaps that might be too many then with Brendan, a 1, a 2, and a 3 and all that kind of stuff, but I wouldn't mind someone there just as, just to show someone like a Jonathan Trott or a Richard Dawson, show them the ropes, and then after a year or two, you know, then he's ready to go. So that might be a way they're thinking as well.

Ryan, what's the key attribute for somebody to fulfill this role in a way that is not going to cause too much disruption across the format?

Well, to be honest, I think like we're talking here that it feels like it's all a panic. Oh, the Pakistan Test series in the middle of August, we've got to get someone in place. If you take a step back and take a breath, what is the rush? There's 3 Test matches in Pakistan. Let's be honest, England aren't making the World Test Championship. They're gone. They can't make that. So why not take a breath? Let's get the right person. Let's not rush into it. Hey, if we need to get an interim coach for the next, you know, 3 months or whatever it is, you know, Truscott is in the system. They've got good people in their system. They can call on others to help. But I think the main thing is you've got to get the right person. Who is going to make England a better Test team? That's all it's about. How are they going to make— where are they in the world at the minute, 7th or 8th? That's— and again, I'm an Aussie, everyone knows that, but man, I'm passionate about English cricket because this is my job. I watch, I look after Emilio Gay. I've had the captain of England for the last 4 years. I've got Cars and Potts and McKinney and all these guys wanting to play for England. So I am passionate about it. I want you guys to take a breath. I want them to make the right decisions and get the right people. And the, the X factor in all this— and again, now I am going to be a bit too parochial— is Marcus North, because he is a, a guy who can work his way through a problem situation. That's what he does. And he can help Rob Key in all of this. And I have no doubt that Northey is right in amongst helping find the right person for the job here. And like I say, if it means it's not in place for Pakistan, hey, so be it. Get the right person at the right time and everything else will look after itself. Because down the track, you won't worry about the 3 Test series against Pakistan. And that's no disrespect to Pakistan, but it's just 3 Tests along the way. I think getting the right person at the right time is the most important part.

Tamaal, what about the fairly significant issue of the captaincy alongside it all as well? Because this is another gap that at the moment is unfilled.

It is, and obviously all the chat has been, and rightly so, that there's the list of potential players to do the job is pretty small, isn't it? And whilst Harry Brook's the natural successor, I think at the moment not only playing all three forms for England is hard enough, but captaining Um, on top of that is not far off impossible. You think, you know, this is where cricket is so different to every other sport in the world, really, just how involved and how much a captain has to do. Look, Ryan will know from his, you know, relationships with captains at Durham. I captained the T20 side at Sussex, and we're talking about a minuscule amount of work compared to an international captain, but the amount of phone calls you have to be involved in across all 3 teams, selection meetings, planning. That is an awful lot of admin and brain time and, um, effort that you have to, to, to give to a job before you've hit a ball, before you've taken any catches, before you've, you know, focused on your own game, before you've done your gym work, whatever it might be.

That's—

it's an exhausting job. So that's the main question, is can Harry Brook— A, does he want to do all, all three jobs? And, and then B, is, is that the right decision for him? You know, that'll be a, a conversation that he makes himself. You know, if he's presented with that, and then, or it might not even be presented with him, and then you're looking at Joe Root as the other kind of realistic option there as well. And again, does he want to do it for full time? So, look, they're not— whilst they don't have zero— it's not like we have no options in terms of the Test captain, but the ones that are kind of obvious and that are presentable come with some challenges, to say the least.

Who are they, Tim? Who are the options? Who do you fancy?

Well, really, it's Brook and Root, isn't it? They're kind of your only two people that are there.

And they've given Jacob Bethell leadership opportunities. There's been talk of Ollie Pope coming back into the squad, getting actually a bespoke captain.

I don't— personally, I'm not sure how you bring someone from outside the squad that hasn't been involved, hasn't played, because surely if they're good enough to captain the team out of nowhere, they should have probably been in the squad in the first place in some, in some respect, in terms of being in, in that team as a, as a player. That's my opinion anyway. I think that'd be a huge, um, dynamic shift to bring in not only a new player into the squad, but all of a sudden a new captain. I'd be, well, I mean, it'd be interesting. I'd like to be a fly on the wall to see how it all how it all plays out. But, um, yeah, that's just my opinion anyway.

Yeah, I, I just, I, I just can't, I can't see that the, the hierarchy, you know, Ryan was there, was saying, you know what I mean, I'm sure that they had all this sort of like all worked out. I, I just don't think they saw that at this stage of the summer England wouldn't have a coach, their captain would have retired, you know what I mean. You know, they're absolutely they've got no— what's the clue? There's no clue for that, is there? They, they did not foresee themselves being in this position. I know Ryan might agree or disagree with me there, but how could they? No one saw Ben Stokes retiring, did they? You know what I mean? 325 on the, on the fourth day during a spell. So that wasn't factored in, was it? And I think that it's that nothing has become even clearer. Like when, when Baz was then let go of the test job, it didn't necessarily make anything clearer, did it? You know, it's still this mess.

Uh, yeah, I agree. I agree with Tuffers there. I, I don't think— they obviously didn't see the Stokes thing coming. I don't think anyone saw that. I was on his coach. I didn't— definitely didn't see it coming.

How is he?

Um, he's bloody good, to be honest. He's smart. Yeah, he's hitting a million balls. He's going really well.

But, um, good cricketer, really good cricketer, really.

Yeah, I'm just wondering how he's go when we, when we book into the Premier Inn next time. But, um, yeah, but I think his hotel's a bit better than what he's used to. But, um, look, at the end of the day, you're right, Tuffers, they didn't see him retiring. To have two of your main three people who are running the cricket not be there— but I get it. I, I think the coach is one that they kind of suspected if it didn't go well, might have to go. But I don't think they saw the captain. More importantly— not more importantly, but just as important— England got to find a way to replace one of the great all-rounders in world cricket. That's, you know, and I don't think you can do that in all honesty. I think you're going to have to try and moneyball the hell out of that in the, in the form of a couple of players who You know, uh, is it a Sam Curran? See, I like Harrison from Northampton who bats so well as a spinner. Maybe the addition of those two can make up for the runs and then try and find the wicket, so to speak. But that's just one element. But yeah, the leadership is an interesting one. Look, I think there's only 3 guys— well, 4 guys that you would think are going to play every Test match, and that's Duckett, Bethell, Root, and Brook. They're the four that everyone talks about. You know, Jamie Smith, there's obviously question marks around him where I think he's a wonderful player, but you know, he probably, he definitely can't captain. Bethell is 23, but Graeme Smith was 21 when he took over. Yeah, you know, yeah, everything is pointing towards Brook. That's the thing. I think everything is pointing towards Brook. If he wants to do it. Obviously there's going to be a lot of, oh wow, can he play like that if he's captain and all that sort of stuff. But I think we're in a modern world now. I think we have to accept that the modern player is a bit different. The good old days of bloody Mark Taylor being the old metrosexual dude who walks out and rocks up to his cricket game and can't hit him off the square but bats well and bats long, and that's all gone. You know, these guys are a different breed. And you know, Harry Brook, if he is having to do all three, it's a lot of work. But again, he might thrive under that sort of, you know, leadership. He might be actually craving it and it might make him a better player. 'Cause we have seen guys like, you know, Steve Smith. I think his numbers as a captain went through the roof and he was already that good. And we know Brook is that good. Maybe the extra cap, the extra responsibility makes him a better player.

Right, let's go through some of the runners and riders for the coach's position because that feels first and foremost to Myles. Justin Langer, Stephen Fleming, Jonathan Trott, all names that we've mentioned. Gareth Batty's been mentioned as well, Richard Dawson. What are England looking for? What should they be looking for?

Well, clearly Whether this is right or wrong, they're going to want a change, aren't they? They're going to want somebody that's going about the cricket slightly differently to how Brendan did it. Otherwise, we wouldn't be in this position in the first place.

But does that not cause a problem already? Because they've got to mesh together as well in what they're doing between white ball and red ball.

Yes and no. But I think whoever gets this test job isn't going to be, or shouldn't be overly worried about Baz's effect and the white ball job. If you're getting that test job, that's your focus and how you get the best out of the team and the setup and obviously then hopefully the results follow. So I think that obviously it seems like it's going to come back a little bit more towards the conservative way of thinking. And this is the funny thing about cricket for me is how much kind of the media and the public and the fan get a say in how the cricket goes. You know, we genuinely see a change in things when people You know, when there's an outcry, doesn't there? And fans want to say, oh no, this is now too reckless. We want it more conservative. All of a sudden the coach is gone. We're probably going to get a more conservative coach. Whereas, you know, 4 years ago, we're now, we're, we're lauding, um, Brendan McCullum for what he's doing. So, look, first of all, I think you want some stability and continuity. I think, I'm not sure whether I'm just thinking out loud now. I don't know whether a familiar face would be a good thing or a bad thing, or whether you want someone coming in that doesn't have those pre-existing relationships with the players and can almost reset it so the players, you know, have to kind of— everyone, that feeling of starting again from scratch. And okay, you know, we're starting again here fresh foot. We need to impress. We need to give our best, best account of ourselves. Um, but yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's a tricky one because whoever comes in is obviously gonna want to put their, their own mark on things, but Will that mark be anything overly different than what we've seen in Test cricket for the last however long? Ryan's probably better placed as a, you know, as a coach day in, day out to speak about that himself.

Well, it's an interesting one. I think whoever comes in, they're not coming in all guns blazing. I think that all good coaches can read the room, you know. They know what players they've got, and I think that the subtle changes will happen first. I think it might be a tweak of a player here or a player there, or, you know, you're probably not going to tell Ben Duckett to start leaving the ball as a new coach, or telling, you know, the fast bowlers, well, you're not allowed to bowl bouncers anymore, you've got to be, you know, pitch it up and swing it away, or whatever that is. But yeah, I think the new guy will definitely come in with the way he wants to do it. But I also think most coaches, in my experience, are good people and they understand how to read a room and, you know, they'll work it out. They'll pull people aside. They'll get to know each individual, which is the most important thing. If you can form a relationship with the players, then you can start to, you know, dig a little deeper and try and, you know, get your sort of way of how you'd like to see them play. Across a little bit further. So yeah, you know, there's a lot of good names thrown up. Of course, England people and fans would love to see an English coach, I would have thought. Um, the two that you have mentioned, look, I think Richard Dawson is an amazing coach. I think what he's done with Glamorgan has been absolutely fantastic. And I also think Jonathan Trotty is a really good coach. My only, I guess, one reservation with Trotty would be He played a lot of Test cricket, so he should know the game, but he's never coached multi-format play. You know, I know Afghanistan play a Test here or there, but you know, they haven't done a lot of it. It's more of white ball, which I guess can be a question mark. But you know, all the names that you sort of throw up, mate, good coaches know how to find a way. And that's the thing for me. If they can find a way, get through to the players, the players trust them, They can do whatever they need.

Tuffers, Justin Langer.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, JL. I mean, I played with JL down at Middlesex, played against him quite a bit as well. Um, I, I just sort of thinking back about Baz Ball and what have you, you know what I mean? There was a lot of good things about it, you know. You don't want this wholesale change, you know. You want to be playing aggressive front-foot cricket, you know. You want to be doing this, that, and the other, you know. You You don't come in there and all of a sudden have some disciplinarian and everyone, as Ryan was saying, has got to leave it outside off stump and sort of, you know, go at 2.5 and over and what have you. It's just that subtle sort of change really. JL, I mean, well, I mean, Ryan's played with JL. I mean, a very, very determined sort of like, uh, you know, knows what he wants, you know what I mean? And he, and he goes about it. Whether that would be too much of a shock after Bazball, I'm not quite sure. I don't know how particularly Justin he goes about his coaching, but I mean, he's a fantastic bloke, you know what I mean, and his heart, and you know, he supports his players and he wants only the best for them and what have you. Whether that might just be a little bit too much of a smack in the face, I'm not quite sure.

Tamal, you've been coached by Stephen Fleming at the Southern Brave. He's somebody that you know well. Obviously, there is the New Zealand connection. He's also said, by the way, he'd 100% give it some consideration.

Thoughts?

Yeah, first of all, Flem's a great guy. 2 years with him at Southern Brave. He creates an awesome atmosphere. It is an empowering atmosphere, it's a relaxed atmosphere from my experience with him. Trusts his players to do the work and to figure it out. But he's a deep thinker and one thing he does is when he talks, people listen. And he's— the way he conducts himself and holds a team meeting. And he's obviously had a lot of experience doing that in various different dressing rooms and in various different guises around the world. And he's obviously— and he had a brilliant career as a player and, you know, and as a batter and as a captain. So he's, you know, he's been there and done it for the most part in his career. I guess the only thing to touch on, as Ryan mentioned, he's been doing T20 cricket for the last 18 years or however long it's been he was with CSK and straight out of playing and Melbourne Stars and such. I don't think he's done any, if very little, 4-day test match, Red Bull coaching, whatever it might be. So, um, it'd be interesting to know how important that is when the ECB are looking for a head coach. Do they need to have coached some test cricket or at least some championship cricket or whatever it is? Because as a coach, they're different skills, aren't they? You whilst you can create an environment and environments can, um, can go across formats, you know, how hands-on are you? Are you, are you talking about mentality and forward defensive and sustained periods of pressure and the demands off the field? Because obviously as someone that plays T20 cricket, those physical and mental and technical demands are extremely different compared to if you need to do something for, for 5 days as opposed to a few hours like we do. So, look, there's clearly not the perfect candidate out there. Andy Flower was obviously being touted about as the perfect candidate for everything that he's done and everything that he's achieved. And he's one of the very few people in the world that could turn it down and say that it's not for him and he doesn't need it. And he's, you know, very happy doing what he's doing, which is great for Andy. And I think he's probably downstairs right now, a few feet underneath me here in the team hotel. So Uh, yeah, good, good for him. And this, as I mentioned earlier, there will be a lot of people that want this job. Not, not, not many people will be in that position that Andy's in. You know, this is the England Test job. It'll be a well-paid job. It'll be a lucrative job. It'll be a high-profile job to have on your CV that most people will want to, to do. There aren't many bigger jobs in, in, in, uh, in coaching at this point, uh, in this present moment.

We will find out soon enough, no doubt, or maybe not, but we will find out at some point who it is going to be. Ryan, before we let you go, England's loss is very much your gain. Ben Stokes available for the One Day Cup. You mentioned that he seems to be hitting it well and in good touch, but yeah, it's a massive boost for you then.

Oh, unbelievable boost, to be honest. I think it's actually an unbelievable boost for the One Day Cup, the Metro Bank. I think Derbyshire have sold more tickets than they ever have before with the One word got out there. But look, at the end of the day, it was— as a coach, you go through a few— obviously I was as sad as everyone else because I was— firstly, I was a cricket fan when he announced his retirement. But then, you know, you hear what he said about how much he loved playing for Durham and that, then suddenly, you know, you start feeling a little bit all excited and bloody thinking that you're on top of the world. But, you know, it was an amazing thing what he said about the Durham environment and him coming back and being a part of it. And, you know, I've no doubt as we, we're sort of sitting down and plotting out, you know, what does next year look like and, and the end of the year and all this sort of stuff. But to have a guy like, you know, Ben Stokes in your lineup, um, yeah, I can't say enough about him. Um, you know, he's the first one to be— he's throwing balls to our 18-year-old James Minto the other day. It's just you know, that's what he does. So yeah, it's going to be enjoyable to watch. And like I say, yes, I've got the coach's hat on and we're trying to win, but I've no doubt over the next, what, 2 months I'll be sitting back and just trying to enjoy Ben Stokes the player.

Yeah, Ryan, does next year— a lot of people have been saying look like him coming back to play Australia in the Ashes.

One thing I'll say, Tuffers, is that from what I can tell, when Ben makes a decision, he's thought about it for a long time. And you know, when he said, "I don't have any fight left," that to me was like a guy who'd gone to the well once too often. So, you know, if we can get him— and again, please don't take this the wrong way about the England cricket team, but it felt like it became too much hard work as the captain. So if we can get him back in love with the game again. I always say that blokes like that, you can't let them walk away from the game not loving it. And that's what we're going to try and do. And if he does that, geez, I can just imagine how well he's going to play. Because like I say to everyone, like 2 weeks ago he was playing Test cricket for England and now I've got him in a One Day Cup team. It's pretty cool.

Ryan Cowbell, coach of Durham, thank you very much indeed for your time this evening.

Thanks, guys. Cheers.

Thanks, Ryan. You're listening to the TMS Podcast. Next, from BBC Radio 5 Live.

How did a boy called Jimmy become a billionaire from posting videos?

On Good, Bad Billionaire, we're going to find out how the world's most popular YouTuber, MrBeast, made his fortune.

He's buried himself in a coffin for days, counted to 100,000 on camera, and even recreated Squid Games, all in an attempt to go viral on the internet.

But it all started when he gave a homeless man $10,000.

So is he a philanthropist reshaping capitalism, or is he just the king of the attention economy?

Find out on Good Bad Billionaire.

Listen on bbc.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

5 lives for—

so here's the first ball of this series.

All the cricket you love lives on BBC Sounds.

Smash straight back down the ground, this girl.

Ball-by-ball coverage of the biggest competitions on the domestic and international circuits.

It's a fourth wicket and it's the huge one. Settle down, sorry mate.

Cricket on 5 Live Sport.

Oh, I'm living every ball of this.

Listen on BBC Sounds.

This is the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. A new era of The Hundred. I'm very pleased to say that the managing director of The Hundred, Vikram Banerjee, is here in the studio with us. How are you feeling?

I'm excited. I'm really excited. It's in some respects has come round really quickly this summer. It's finally here. The sun's shining, we're bouncing at the Oval, so I'm super excited.

For those that have followed and enjoyed the tournament previously, what's it going to look like? What's different? Because we've heard a lot about new franchises, new teams, new owners, all this.

I think, well, the first thing to say, at its heart, it will still be The Hundred that those fans know and love. It's still the very best players playing. It's still a family audience. It's still the most inclusive, accessible tournament out there. We're still trying to throw cricket's doors open to everyone. But yeah, there's been a lot of change in the last 12 months. From a fan's perspective, some of the teams have changed names, they've changed kits and brands. In March, we mixed around a lot of the playing squads, so players have moved around a little bit. It's an amazing roster of players, but some of those faces are in different squads now. So there'll be a little bit of difference, but what fans have really enjoyed about The Hundred for the last 5 years still remains.

Timal, you've been one of those players that has moved around and currently with the London Spirit. You said you were in the team hotel and— oh, you're putting on your Spirit hat as well.

Look at that.

Yeah, very good.

Right on brand. So come on, what's it been like from a player's point of view this year, other than the fact that there have been some slightly larger figures being banded around in terms of salaries?

But what about the process with Do you know what, I've definitely felt the difference now that the teams aren't run centrally. So now that each team is in charge of their own operation as such, the teams obviously can do what they want. And obviously from a London Spirit point of view, they've gone all out in terms of the marketing and everything. I've done some stuff over the last few months, collaborations with KSI and Kevin Peterson on the outfield at Lord's. All of the branding, like the hotel we're in now is all kitted out fully with London Spirit branding, a team room. We've got a London Spirit branded ping pong table. We've been given all the, you know, all the memorabilia and merch and stuff. You know, those are, those are all things that I know might sound silly, but that didn't really happen last year because it was just kind of centrally controlled. And the teams now have full license to really explore what they can do. And we've got Tiny Temper performing before our game on Thursday at Lord's. And they're going all out and they see it as you know, their, their baby and it's something that they can really throw their weight behind. And the people that have owned, bought our side are, you know, some pretty huge people in the world of business. So, yeah, really exciting. Obviously, we had a, we joined up on Friday as well. That's another thing is that our lead up has been bigger than normal. Normally you join up 2 or 3 days before the first game, but with our game not starting till Thursday, we're getting almost a week together for the most part. Everybody's together now. A few guys were involved with finals day and stuff over the weekend. But yeah, it's felt like a proper tournament's about to start now. And yeah, we're really excited. We've still got 2 more training days to go, but really excited to get going on Thursday.

Let's, Jamal, just a quick one, just a quick one. Were you a bit sad to leave the Brave?

You know, well, this is what I want to get into because we've got these name changes. We've got Manchester Originals becoming the Super Giants. Northern Superchargers are now the Sunrisers Leeds. Oval Invincibles are now MyLondon. I mean, it's a bit of a shift and obviously you've moved franchises, Tamal. It's all a bit of a— and we'll get Vikram's thoughts in a moment, but you know, there will be some loyalty generated by fans that is going to have to be rediscovered.

Yeah, look, genuinely, so I did 5 years with one team, with the Brave, and that's probably quite unusual in terms of the tournament in general, but I really, I'd have loved to have gone back. I had no reason to leave. It worked well for, you know, me and my family. I live in Hove, you know, an hour and a half down the road. My family could come. I can go home easily. Like those little things, it worked really nicely. And yeah, I'd have loved to have gone back, but it didn't, you know, transpire that way. And like very happy to be with, with London Spirit. But it really, from my experience anyway, I'll be interested to see how it goes down at the Utilita Bowl because for whatever reason, the Southern Brave really worked down there. We had the, you know, the Green Army and the fans, they were genuine Southern Brave fans down there. Kids all wearing the shirts, the crowd, you know, sold out most games, even sold out for the women's games, but even before we took the field in the evening. So I'll be interested to see how the kind of the rebrand goes on that side of things. I'm obviously playing for a side that hasn't completely rebranded, still kept the the same name and similar kit and color schemes and things like that. So it will be interesting to see across the country how it, how it does cut through, because I think obviously Vikram will be able to maybe go into it better than I am. But 5 years is a decent time to build something. And to varying different degrees, the teams certainly did build, build something. So it'll be interesting to see, does that ripping up and start again, does it affect things negatively? Or the opposite? Does it go even more positively or does it actually not make that much of a difference and people still just want to come to The Hundred and watch the cricket during July and August?

Yeah. And just to give my views on that one, I mean, obviously of Tamal's three options there, I hope it is a positive one, you know, and if you look at where The Hundred has been successful over the last five years, bringing in new crowds, bringing people into the sport, Our research showed that to this day, on the whole, most people came to The Hundred because it was a great day out with the cricket. The next phase of evolution is around deepening that fandom, deepening that loyalty to my favorite team, whatever that, whichever team that may be. And so as part of that, as part of that growth, some of the great things that we heard that London Spirit are doing are being replicated 8 times over and all the different teams are putting their spin on things. And I'm hopeful that as that embeds, as that goes into the next phase, that next evolution will be deeper fandom, deeper loyalty from fans as they get to know their team, fall in love with their team, and be able to call London Spirit or Welsh Fire or Manchester Super Giants their own.

Because I, you know, remember last year, years before, going to the Oval where you'd see all these turquoise shirts, a lot of passion from young fans. Fans, they might be going through, you know, their wardrobe tonight thinking, can't wait to go and see my team in action again tomorrow, and they'll get there and it'll be a different team with a different uniform. Yeah, I mean, it— that is going to be a little bit jarring.

Yeah, and I think, um, we— because obviously you want to do both. You want to keep those people that have fallen in love with The Hundred and have come and followed The Hundred and bought some merch or whatever it may be, and you want to bring in some new people. So balancing that is obviously an interesting and a challenge to overcome. My view is on the whole, a lot of teams have done this in a really nice way. Different— they've addressed it in different ways. But for example, the MyLondon are doing a shirt amnesty. So if you have that child that had an Oval Invincibles top, they can bring it into the Oval and swap it in for a MyLondon shirt. So a lot of the teams are using different methods to try and bring those fans along with them while evolving into what is new and different.

Well, Will those shirts have betting sponsors on them? Because this has been a big controversial topic of conversation over the last few weeks, because I know that as of next year there won't be betting companies on, but this is family-friendly, isn't it?

Yes, it is. And that family audience has not changed. That, the core part of the DNA for The Hundred hasn't changed at all. But look, betting is a massive part of the sports ecosystem. It is the biggest kind of sponsorship category, if you like, in cricket, let alone sport in this country. Our aim was to always take The Hundred beyond what normal cricket does, and we have managed to do that. We have banned betting, any visible betting partnerships from 2027 onwards. We did, as many of the listeners would have heard about and read, we did allow teams this year to kind of transition across as a last chance if they really needed to, to go with a betting partner. And that's what we accepted given this year and its unique circumstances. But in really positive news, the teams have taken that on board, bought into the objectives, bought into the strategy, and we won't have any betting partners on front of shirts at all this year. They've all managed to secure partners from a variety of different industries. So that's, I think, positive. For the sport, for the competition. And then obviously from next year it's banned completely.

Okay, well, that does answer that. And, you know, thank you for being quite so honest and clear about it. It's— Timar, from your perspective, having played all over the world, is The Hundred different? And is it— you mentioned it feels different this year, but is it different?

Oh yeah, fundamentally cricket-wise it is. And I think the big USP of the Hundred, trying to take myself from not being a player but as a fan, or just looking at it subjectively, is the doubleheader nature of it and the women's and having the two teams and the women's matches and the men's matches and the full day. I think that has worked brilliantly. I don't think anybody can really argue with that and it creates a nice environment and look, we arrive and, you know, watch the end of the girls' game see how they're getting on. We go out and play, the girls often stay in the stadium and sit and watch and, you know, support us. And then you're back in the hotel afterwards and hopefully both teams have had a win and you're in the team room and stuff afterwards. And I think that having those, you know, obviously value for money is important. Speaking as somebody that didn't grow up with, you know, much means, and look now as a parent, if I'm thinking, okay, how are you gonna get a nice day out for your family? If you can have that whole experience from a whole day at the cricket, if, you know, if cricket is something that you and your family enjoy or your kids love, knowing that you can go have a full day, watch two really high quality games of cricket, hopefully, you know, good activation and things around the ground and that the stadium experiences be a really positive one. Obviously the weather seems great at the moment. Hopefully that continues. It is a really good day out and as a player, the cricket is of a really good standard, and that's, that's the most important thing as a player. You want to be playing in a, in a, what you feel is a big game. That's, that's what I enjoy. I turn up at every Hundred game thinking this is a big game because I'm playing in the, in the biggest stadiums in the UK in front of either sold-out crowds or very close to sold-out crowds against high-level opposition. And, you know, that's, that's where you want to be as a player. And players that aren't involved in the Hundred want to be. So I think that unique nature of the doubleheader every game, that one club kind of model, really makes it stand out aside from other, aside from the format itself, of course.

Vikram, that is a good place to conclude things with you, is the format, because there's been a lot of talk that the owners that are coming in from the IPL are going to want this to become a T20 competition. Can you tell us now whether it's going to at any point?

Well, I don't know about any point, but I think for now the Hundred format has been really successful for us. And so for the time being, it will remain as a 100-ball format. I think what's really important for any sporting tournament is the strength of foundations within its home country. So whether you're the NFL, the Premier League, the IPL, the strength in their home territory is important. And for us, As just very eloquently explained there, the format allows for doubleheaders, it allows for BBC to air it live on BBC2 and things like that, which allow it to achieve what it's trying to achieve and achieve that growth ambitions.

Fantastic. Thank you, Vikram.

Thank you very much.

We will, we will no doubt catch up as the tournament goes on. That's the managing director of The Hundred, Vikram Banerjee. I should also mention one of the new features this year, The Hundred Helix. So it's the, it's the new team championship award. It's a bit like the, I suppose, the Constructors' Championship, if you like, in Formula One, with a prize that it combines together into a single points total, the efforts of the men's and the women's side. So you can read more about that on the BBC Sport website and app. Let's go a little bit more into, I suppose, the heart of the tournament from within a side, and the Welsh Fire, who have had, I think it's fair to say, a difficult few years, but they are starting afresh as every side is. And we're joined by two people who are right across it all. Chair of Glamorgan, Mark Riddick-Roberts, and also Sanjay Govil, who's invested £40 million in the Welsh Fire based in Cardiff. Sanjay, first of all, what drew you to The Hundred and to the Welsh Fire?

Hi, how are you? Thanks for having me here. I think, you know, it's always been a big dream of mine to be associated with the Hundred. It's one of the premier leagues in the world, in my opinion. English cricket has always been, you know, we all grew up with county cricket in India. I remember every day used to read all the statistics and all the stuff of county cricket. So I was always attracted to that. And I just saw a lot of cultural fit with, with Welsh Fire, obviously with the Wales football team that's become a big phenomenon with Ryan Reynolds and everybody else. And, and so obviously the Welsh Fire was very attractive. We did talk to other teams. And besides the fact that, you know, I own the cricket team in the US, the Washington Freedom. So besides the fact that both were WF, but But, you know, I think there's a great cultural fit between us and Welsh Fire, and we were just honed into them.

Mark, what from your point of view has it been like? I mean, a whirlwind, presumably.

Yeah, I mean, I think particularly for Glamorgan and Welsh cricket, The Hundred has given us the chance to really transcend what's a difficult and fairly challenging macroeconomic environment and take us in a different direction. And I think just to echo what Sanjay's been highlighting, I think the cultural fit between the two parties has been excellent and has developed as exactly as we thought it would be. When we first started the 100 process, I think we met around 15 investors in the first round. And I think even from that time, we were definitely focused in— and I think Sanjay would agree with this— on getting together with Sanjay Govil and Washington Freedom. And I think that's proved to be absolutely the correct partner for us. I think we can move quicker. There's no big corporate hierarchy. Sanjay and I and our respective teams can sort out issues very quickly. No big corporate structure, very much adaptability. And we're very much looking forward to to the tournament.

I mean, some, some big names signed and some big figures as well. Phil Salt, who has come into the side as captain, £450,000. Jordan Cox, £300,000. The likes of Joe Root, Ratchan Vrindra, Chris Woakes. In the women's competition, Sophie Devine is the joint highest paid player at £210,000. These are, well, certainly to most of us, eye-watering figures, Sanjay. I mean, What are you getting in, in choosing these players and, and what are you looking to build in this side?

Sure. So I'm going to give you analogy to the Washington Freedom, right? So Major League Cricket started 4 years back. Washington Freedom was an unknown because, you know, we had established cricket brands who were owning teams in the US, namely 4. 4 of them had IPL lineage to have teams here. The fifth one had ownership in one of the teams. Last 4 years, we made it to the playoffs all 4 years. 3 times, 3 years we've been regular season champions, and 3 years in a row we have made it to the finals. We won 1 championship, lost 2, and we just set a world record for the highest chase in T20 history. So I sincerely believe that that to succeed, you need the best players out there. And we believe that there's a formula behind how that's done, you know, in terms of a mixture of all-rounders, very strong at the top, and then having a very good few, very good bowlers. And working with Mark, it was very important for us to emulate something of that sort. In the Welsh Fire. And also it's very important that, you know, Phil Salt is originally from Wales and we wanted to have that kind of a lineage also, you know, to get the crowd involved. And so we felt like this is a winning formula we have. And obviously this is our first year to be associated with the Welsh Fire and hopefully You know, you mentioned at the start of this interview about the history of Bellshire and challenging years. And I can assure you, it's for no lack of trying. And so it's very important that we bring all these players together, create an environment of family with all these players. We're kind of very similar to what we have done at the Washington Freedom. Mark and Dan and all these people have visited us and seen that culture. And, uh, we, we want to establish the same kind of environment in both men's and women's, um, cricket. And talking of that, you know, you'd ask me what drew me to the Hundred. Another big factor which drew me to the Hundred was the fact that they had women's cricket and, uh, they were given the same kind of a preference as men, uh, because both matches are held, uh, back to back.

Mark, just briefly, what about, if you like, your more traditional Glamorgan cricket fans? I mean, how's the process of engaging them to ensure that you're getting those supporters, and actually further afield in the West Country?

I think in terms of the traditional membership of county cricket clubs, they tend to prefer traditional red ball cricket. I think the beauty of cricket compared to a lot of other sports is that you can watch the format that you enjoy. And I think the most important thing actually about The Hundred is that it's brought a completely different demographic and a younger demographic into the sport. So if I can just throw out some statistics, maybe I'm not answering the question directly, but these are interesting statistics and pick up on what Vic was saying earlier. 46% of ticket buyers are new to Sophia Gardens, 30% are female buyers, and 46% are family tickets. And our ticket sales are 7% up in '26 than they were last year. You know, there's a different demographic, and I wouldn't expect necessarily the membership to completely embrace the Hundred, but they do support Glamorgan Cricket fully. So yeah, I think choose the format, and other sports do not have that innovation as cricket has.

So sorry, Mark, so sales have been great. Have you seen that? Have you seen that?

Yeah, I mean, obviously numbers aren't in yet. It's very early in '26, but as I said, sales of tickets at Welsh Fire are 7% above the same period last year.

Well, that's going to be music to the ears of the organisers, no doubt. Mark Sanjay, thank you very much indeed, and best of luck to the Welsh Fire for the upcoming campaign. Tamal Tuffers, you're both working on that first game.

Yes.

How excited are you for it all to get underway?

Yeah, really looking forward to the new— everything just feels a bit new as we've been discussing, haven't we? So really looking forward to going down there, commentating on it, and getting behind. I'm gonna have to find myself a team as well, you know, but I think I've got, uh, I think I've got my eye on a couple, but we'll have to wait and see. But, uh, yeah, exciting times for me. Can't wait.

That's not how supporting a team works. You can't hedge your bets. Jamal, you ready?

Yeah, look, we've had a couple of days training already and then, yeah, I've got a busy day tomorrow. I've got a bowlers meeting in the morning, then training at Lord's in the early afternoon, and then I'm heading straight from training over to the Oval to cover the men's fixture in the evening. So look, this is my favourite part of the summer, as I mentioned earlier. We've got 8 games. Each game feels like a big game. I've looked, obviously I'm biased, but I think we've got a really strong squad. I think Andy and Mo and Freddie and the guys have really put together a strong squad. And yeah, look, we're really excited. We've got 2 more training days and then we get going Thursday night at home to Manchester. So yeah, look, everything, all teams start equal. Everyone's got everything ahead of them. And yeah, I'm really excited for how the next few weeks are going to pan out.

Well, that's it for this episode of the Test Match Special. Podcast. Don't forget, you can hear every match of The Hundred on BBC Sounds right throughout the tournament.

So much sport today, and all the goals as they go in up and down the league. This is Five Live Sports.

It's all eyes to the lights and foot to the floor. It's not his subpar.

Everyone standing around the 18th green. That is sensational! He serves to the centre and that will do it!

Oh, the right hand and the former champion is down! It's extraordinary stuff, they've put on a show for us tonight. He gets on his knees and kisses the turf.

5 Live Sports, the home of the world's greatest sporting events.

That is the full-time whistle! Listen on BBC Sounds.

How did a boycott Jimmy become a billionaire from posting videos?

On Good Bad Billionaire, we're going to find out how the world's most popular YouTuber, MrBeast, made his fortune.

He's buried himself in a coffin for days, counted to 100,000 on camera, and even recreated Squid Games, all in an attempt to go viral on the internet.

But it all started when he gave a homeless man $10,000.

So is he a philanthropist reshaping capitalism, or is he just the king of the attention economy? Find out on Good Bad Billionaire.

Listen on bbc.com/billionaire.

Or wherever you get your podcasts.