England make it 4 wins out of 4 in the T20 World Cup and we hear from England Men's Test captain Ben Stokes.

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You're listening to the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. So England through to the semi-finals of the T20 World Cup, qualifying from Group 2 with victory over West Indies here at the home of cricket. 38 runs the margin of victory, with England having set a target of 187. A half century from Danni Wyatt. Hodge, another one, uh, 65 from 42 for her. Heather Knight made a quick-fire 43, and there was 28 from Alice Capsie as well. Halfway stage, I think we thought that perhaps it wouldn't quite be, uh, the dominant display that then we saw in the second innings, where West Indies ended up falling well short on 148 for 5. Never really got going, I think it's fair to say. And England win by 38 runs to book their place in the semi-final. Alongside me is, uh, multi-time World Cup and Ashes winner Katherine Siverbrunt, and we've watched a different but equally clinical performance from England.

Yeah, it's been great from start to finish, and we said it could go either way. That's what the windies are like. I'm very, very happy that England are on the winning side today because sometimes we can do that, can't we? We can just give someone a little look in or not have to, you know, put her spikes on and come out in a couple of days' time. So I'm so glad that now there's a bit of relaxation and a bit of, you know, less stress time this week before the big stuff starts happening. So it, like you said, it's been, it's been very clinical today. There's— if we're gonna, if we're gonna fault them, it's gonna be small stuff, isn't it? It's gonna be really nitpicking.

And, and what would— well, let's get into a little bit of, of what, what they did well, England, and what they did less well. We will get a reaction from out there on the, on the outfield shortly, but just sort of headline, what impressed you tonight?

Um, so it was obviously nice to see Dani come out in her, in her normal aggressive fashion. There's, there's no change there, and I would love to think that she would stay true to herself and, and play like that throughout the tournament because that's the best of Dani White-Hodgson. She went to the very top of runs scored this tournament, I think, by a batter. I think she's— yep, even though she was run out and probably don't know what she would have scored. Could it have been a second hundred? We don't know. So Lovely to see her in the runs again, um, and big, you know, converting that 50 into more. Um, you know, this— the rest of the order didn't fire like we saw them fire last game, but we said that was such a spectacular performance at Headingley. You're not always going to get that. That's like one of those superb scenarios. But it's— I do think what I've been most impressed about over the last couple of weeks is is the, the performances across the board.

Here we go, player of the match is Dani Wyatt Hodge, and she's chatting down there on the boundary edge with Ian Bishop.

Her medal for her excellent 65 from 42 today. Dani, congratulations, 100 in the first game and a half century here today. In your mind, that in the What were the keys to your success?

I think just really watch the ball, have good energy, and yeah, just back myself, run really well. You know, it's T20, you've got to come out with brave and show intent. And yeah, it was my night tonight.

A number of sweep shots and trying to manipulate the field. How did you— what was your perspective on where you were trying to score and what pleased you?

Um, yeah, I guess square leg was up for most of the innings, so I was trying to get that gap. Um, and Fletcher was bowling quite wide at me, so yeah, trying to access, um, that area a lot. And yeah, just keep on trying to move quick and have energy.

What about that heat? What was it like batting out there in the heat?

Yeah, that was the hottest I've ever played in here in England, uh, very close to back in Dubai a couple of years ago, actually. It was just very dry heat. But yeah, I really enjoyed myself out there for the girls. But it really well to get that total. It's always a little bit tricky to bat here at Lord's, but I thought we came out all guns blazing and everyone contributed.

Eventually run out and some of the running. Was there like little communication issues? Because there are a number of near misses with the running today.

Um, yeah, maybe a little bit. Something we'll talk about for the next game. Um, but yeah, I guess, you know, T20, um, it's always a bit tricky, isn't it? So yeah, it's definitely something we need to improve on for the next games.

Very well played to yourself, or continually well played. Thank you very much for your time.

Cheers. Thank you.

Thoughts there of the player of the match. Uh, who was outstanding. Danny Wart-Hodge once again dominating things at the top of the order, 65 from 42. Uh, Isha Ghura has joined us as well. Um, Isha, what— sort of getting into what impressed Katherine about the England performance, uh, for you, what, what really stood out?

I just think England have shown so much adaptability throughout this tournament. I, I think we knew it was going to be difficult today in the heat I thought West Indies handed them some early runs in that power play, but it wasn't that easy to bat on in the day heat. And also it was gripping in the surface. You know, it was a good toss to win for the West Indies and Hayley Matthews because it did get a little bit easier when it got cooler and under lights. But I thought they showed a lot of composure and that's what I've seen throughout this tournament actually. You know, 6 months ago, a year ago, England in a sticky spot. You would have got a little bit nervous in the dressing room or watching on. But here I just feel that they're so in control because of all the wins that they put together. Everyone knows their roles. There's so much role clarity because of that competition for places that has been developed throughout the team. You know, it's, it's not easy sometimes as a player to have that, you know, having to look behind you and wonder what's coming next and kind of worried about your spot. It can be quite stressful. But actually what we have seen is that every single player in that squad has performed at some point in the last month. And so that then, when you're in a situation in a World Cup where you're under a bit of pressure, you, you have the confidence and the belief to be able to get through those periods. And that's what we've seen from them, I think, in this game today.

Yeah, that's, that's so true. And it's the contributions, as you say, it's the contributions across the board. And the more times that happens, that gives everyone in that lineup the confidence in every— in each other. So it knows, like, if we get lose 2 wickets, they don't go back to the dugout and sit there and go, oh my God, we're done. Like, they go, we've got so much left, we're back to 9, we've got 8 bowling changes, there's no need to stress. So they've built that confidence. And what I think one of the key things to this team is, because it is a new-look team effectively, what I've seen is some, some not growing up, it's— there's been an involvement right, where we've seen two people in particular, Freya Kemp and Dani Gibson, have just changed this gear. Not only in their cricket skill, but their, their mentality, their confidence.

Like a hard unit to me.

They look scary now. They're people that people would know how to bowl at, but now are fearing to bowl at. And that is such a shift. For me, that's been the one of the standouts.

They just back themselves, and, and there's there's a little bit of anger that comes through. You can sense it in, in the fact that actually, hang on a second, if, if, if they don't kind of feel like their place is secure, it's like, well, hang on a second, you should be backing me all the time. I, I want to see that loyalty, which, you know, Charlotte Edwards has been known to, to give people chances and to keep backing them. But I think because of that insecurity around places, and that's made some players go, hang on a second, you're not dropping me. You're not dropping me ahead of this tour and ahead of this World Cup. And because of that tension and that stress that's been created actually in a World Cup situation, which is quite stressful anyway, they are stepping up. You think about Heather Knight today, for example, she—

she's had to step up.

She walked out to bat and then straight away the conversations were around, should Dani Gibson and Freya Kemp have been put up the order? I said no, because she knows this pitch. She can play against spin and she's got the experience. She knows how to work the ball around the ground. And actually the run rate didn't drop when she was in. She was still making that run rate go at 9s, 10s and over. She will look at that mishap with the run out with Danni Whitehodge, and that was a shocker. Like she hit the ball to the fielder. Danni Whitehodge was in a good place. She was about to explode and she was run out. She could have wavered in that situation, but, you know, interestingly, but she didn't. Kept going.

On your point, I felt the other way, and I'm going to put my hand up. I felt I was one of those people that said put Freya in, put Dani in, because we're running out of overs. And I felt that way because of the last however long period of time. But, and thank God, and brilliantly, she's had— she's forced me to think differently because she's come in and she's boundary hunted and she's had to she's taken risks, done this, done that, and she's gone and done exactly what they would have gone and done. But that's the only way to do it, is because she knows— she's been moved down a spot, right? She knows she will go down another spot or be a floater if she doesn't up her game.

You know, it reminds me of when Ellyse Perry fell out of the Australian T20 side. She took a look around and realized that I've got to be unshackled here in terms of how I perform and my attitude to to it, and it's bringing out the best in her.

Yeah, and this is— that's a shocking run out, you, you're absolutely right. But look how brilliantly they ran the last 2, 3 games prior to that. Yeah, these things happen, don't they?

And tough in the heat as well. The number of 2s that were on today. Yeah, um, enjoying that kind of the hottest part of the day, you know, that was— that's something— there's something to be said about that performance.

Well, we're going to hear from the two captains in just a moment. 5 drop catches, a bit of a worry. We'll get on to that in a moment. Hazian bishop.

For the semis, winning today by 38 runs. Just the first loss of the T20 World Cup for the West Indies, and their captain Hayley Matthews is with me here at the moment. Hayley, commiserations, uh, first of all. And go back to the toss— you chose to bowl in the heat. What was that like?

Yeah, um, it certainly was hot out there, uh, but at the same time, I don't feel like it was a bad decision for us to go and bowl. Um, the batting Started off pretty well from the England side. We probably missed our lines at some intervals, and yeah, towards the end probably, but I still felt that we weren't too bad. We probably let ourselves down a bit within the field more so than anything.

Just playing at Lord's as a team sometimes can be intimidating for the first time, the sense of history here. That occasion had nothing to do with missing lengths and lines?

Yeah, I don't think it has to do with the occasion necessarily. I think we were all pretty excited to get the opportunity to play at Lord's. These are opportunities and chances that some people get once in a lifetime. Um, so I think it was the case for everyone to soak it in. I think everything's not always going to go your way when you have the big occasions. Um, but yeah, we're gonna have to come back to the next match, get a win against Ireland, and then hopefully we can be right back in a big spot to make up for that.

Obviously there's some key players including yourself in that lineup. There seemed to be some consternation at your dismissal. Can you talk us through that?

Yeah, um, I've certainly felt like when I caught the ball I did hear a noise, but I felt like I definitely did not hit it. Um, but yeah, at the end of the day, I feel like the umpire's decision has got to be final. Um, I think there was a clear gap between the bat and ball, but at the same time I got to respect the decision that was made and go ahead with that.

So Chanel Henry batting well, but we We didn't see Stefanie Taylor come out. What's the update there?

Yeah, um, Steph was feeling a bit unwell today. She went off the field in the first innings with some chest tightness and having some difficulty with breathing. So I think she's got a bit of a respiratory illness that hopefully we can get better for the next match.

Yeah, and finally, that next match is on Saturday, and that is in Bristol at 2:30 PM. Your destiny's still in your own hands.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly, I think that's a really crucial point for us. It's all in our control, and coming up against Ireland, I think we just need to stay really positive, and once we're playing our best brand of cricket, should come out on top of the game at the end of the day.

Thank you very much for your time.

Thank you.

Stefanie just feeling a bit ill is what Hayley said, and now we've got Charlie Dean here with us. Qualification sealed for the semis. How does that feel?

Yeah, I mean, it's brilliant. It's what we set out to do today and in the tournament. So to get over that line with a game to spare feels great.

To get above 180 in that heat, how satisfied were you at the halfway point?

Yeah, for all our batters to chip in as well, you know, different people scoring runs. Heather and Dani, the standouts. But yeah, everyone chipped in and to get up to that score at Lord's feel like we had a really good chance.

You said it after the first match. I asked you about it at the toss today, compartmentalizing. You said you wanted to bowl better as captain. Are you satisfied today?

Uh, you know, I'm never satisfied. Um, I guess I always want to keep getting better. And yeah, I still think I can put in better performances than I did today. But yeah, I was really happy with the processes that I went with. Um, I think I followed those a little better today. So yeah, I'm happy, but always learning, always getting better.

From a team getting better would include some of the missed opportunities at the back end of the contest?

Yeah, um, you know, obviously a few catches went down, um, you know, they all looked like pretty hard opportunities, to be honest. Um, so the fact that we were— that we had got to those balls that maybe we previously wouldn't have, um, but yeah, I don't think the fielding's a huge issue. Um, the fact that we're creating those chances, um, is, is really important, and hopefully we can cling on to a few more of those when maybe it might mean a bit more if the game's a little closer. But yeah, always looking to get better, always looking to, you know, catch all our chances. But the girls put in a great shift today in the really hot, hot weather conditions.

Our cameramen don't miss much. They saw Nat Siva practicing, doing a few drills there. Any updates on her fitness?

Um, well, she's, she's back in the nets, um, but, um, I don't know too much more than she does. So, um, yeah, really looking forward to her getting back up the pitch, and hopefully that's sooner rather than later.

All right, thank you very much for your time. All the very best in the semifinals. Thank you very much.

Cheers.

Thoughts there, the two captains, um, after such a dominant attacking display from England. That was a marvelous block from Charlie Dean, wasn't it? That was, you know, get past that. Yeah, anyway, that, uh, sees England qualify top of the group, 4 from 4. Um, what about those drop catches? Interesting, Isha, what she said there, Charlie Dean, about, you know, well, maybe previously we wouldn't have even got there.

So yeah, I think that's, that's an interview answer to the world. I think in the dressing room, you know what, I think if you're getting to them, you want to be taking them, especially if you're heading into a knockout situation. Uh, you know, you do have to give them a bit of leeway because it was tough, hot, fatiguing conditions. Um, but at the same time, you know, they would have been disappointed with those drops. Lindsay Smith, that one out at deep midwicket, she she did get there. It was, it was literally fingertips. Yeah, that was a difficult one. The Amy Jones one should have been taken. Um, I can't remember the other ones that, that might have gone down.

I think 4 out of 5 are world-class, right? Yeah, if you want to win a World Cup, you've got to be world-class. So that includes the way you catch. So if you want to get that 5% ahead of Australia, then you've got to do exceptional things. Because there's moments in T20s where it can be, it can be even Steven, right, for a lot of the period of the game. But there's just exceptional moments, and they know they're like literally half an inch away from exceptional moments there. They were very tough catches apart from one. I believe it will give them the sense of, I could have made that. So it gives them the next time they're out there, it gives them 5% more in the effort, which is all it takes to take those.

At this stage of the tournament, you actually don't want to be having 100% game. You want to be still wanting more.

It's nice to know there's more. Yeah.

And going into that New Zealand game, they still want to be getting better. Yeah. They still want to be, you know, improving.

You don't want to feel like you've played your final.

Yeah.

And they believe there's more.

More.

That interview said— she said they were always improving.

I know you can't reveal too much, and I wouldn't ask you to, Catherine, but I think England have got a question about how— at what point to risk, you know, if indeed it is a risk, and whatever else, to alter things and get Nat Sciver-Brunt back into the side as and when she's available, because they're playing well at the moment.

Yeah, me and Ayesha had a conversation earlier, and it was, will they, won't they win this game. And if they don't win this game, then, then there's a headache there for Natalie, because the decision is, do I need a little bit of cricket before this enormous semi-final? Because the semi and the final, for whoever's in them, are massive. They're the toughest games you'll ever play in. So they're not— they're no small feats that you can put your B-side in. You've got to have your most elite. So that headache's sort of gone now. So that's a lovely non-headache to have for Charlotte and the medical staff and that. So I personally believe the next game is out of the question for me. That's my wish. I don't get my wish. What will be will be. But that's my wish and probably the England fans' wish because she's had that taste of not having— of having to play, but then knowing I didn't actually need to do that. I was actually fine. It was just that I had that mental blip. I've gotten through that now. I've got that to fall back on in my mind. And so actually I probably can just rock up to the semifinal. I think that's what everybody would want for her too.

We had the conversation that ahead of the tournament, I spoke to Nat and she was saying that she wanted to build some confidence by being out in the middle, which is why she wanted to play that first, first game and probably the second as well, which I found surprising because she's the sort of player to me she could naturally just go out and do a job. But the fact that she wanted to build some confidence, and as captain, always a nerve-wracking game, that first game of a World Cup in a, in a home World Cup as well, all that pressure, especially as the team had been doing well without her. I think that probably is the mental blip that Katherine's talking about, that she, she, that was a big tick for her, that she, she got out there, she captained well, she got runs on the on the board. And now she probably feels that actually I can come into a semi-final, I'll be okay.

So, um, especially if they finish top and they manage the— if there is such a thing as an easier semi.

Yeah, uh, we'll, we'll work all that out in due course. The key for England tonight was get through it, get the win, because West Indies, you know, we've got— they've got a brilliant record against England in tournament cricket where they've actually beaten England more times, or they had beaten England more times than they'd lost.

And you sort of know that they'll beat you more times than not on a batting surface.

Yeah, and they, they're a very dangerous side. Uh, and England lost the toss as well, so there's an awful lot to be, to be very pleased with in that, in that regard. Um, Isha, in terms of, you know, not wanting to play the perfect game at, uh, at this stage of a tournament, have you seen enough evidence that England have got big game mentality mentality in a way that perhaps they didn't have in previous—

massive, right, massive difference, huge difference. The belief, the belief is crazy actually, that from what I see in this aura of this team. And you just have to look at the way New Zealand are playing and, and the lack of aura that they're playing with. Um, I know they won their, their recent game and actually they were able to come through that, but dropping catches, it feels contagious, that it just feels like a feel-good vibe within this side that even if a player gets after you with the bat, someone's going to come on and break that partnership. And that can be thrown around. It's not just one or two players anymore. It's, it's everyone in that team has a belief that they can do something in a, in a critical match situation. And that's what you want heading into a knockout game. It's still going to be tricky whoever they play. Knockout games are tough. Semifinals are probably the toughest you're going to play. Um, but, but I, I do see a definite difference within this side, right?

Oh, so let's hear from one of those players that has been there, seen, and done it, uh, lifted the trophy here on this ground in 2017, now back amongst the ranks after 9 years as captain. Heather Knight scored 43 off 26 in this evening's game, and she's been speaking to Matt Henry.

Heather, another win, you're in the semi-finals, that must be pretty pleasing.

Yeah, really pleasing. I think it was a really good performance to get 180 on that wicket. I think was well above par. I think it was a good wicket, but obviously a little bit tennis ball-y, a little bit of carry. And then I thought the West Indies bowled a lot of slows and were quite good there. So I think to get to that score and yeah, the main thing, getting the 2 points, that nice relief obviously with what happened against the West Indies last time and making the semis and knowing that we're going to be in London for at least another few days.

Yeah.

Was that on your mind, that defeat last time in 2024 when you did slip up. You were captain then, you slipped up against West Indies. Now you had a calf injury that day and everything, it was quite the day, wasn't it? Much more straightforward today and you got through it.

Yeah, not in the mind at all, no. Um, yeah, luckily the calf survived against them this time, so that's all good. Um, no, look, I think the pleasing thing this tournament, which lots of different people have contributed, particularly in the batting lineup, I feel like, um, as a unit we're working really nicely, like working out, um, how to punch our scores, how to set up games and how to play in different conditions. Obviously Lords is quite unique in terms of the, the conditions, the slope, the pace of the wicket, and the angles that you hit are really important. So yeah, being able to punch out that sort of score, um, yeah, I think we should be really pleased as a batting unit in particular tonight.

Yeah, you ran a lot of your runs as well. You hit boundaries, but you ran a lot as well, which in that heat can't have been easy.

Yeah, it was pretty hot, I'm not gonna lie. Me and Danny probably turned the color of these, these shirts a little bit when we were running those twos, but Yeah, look, both of us are— even though we're 35, we've got quite good engines. So yeah, it's just sort of what you, you're kind of used to when you play abroad. You don't often get it when you're in the UK. And yeah, certainly tough conditions. Dani did amazingly as well, the way she played. I thought in particular how she set the tone with the innings was brilliant. And then yeah, obviously to sort of manage that middle. And yes, she's someone I really enjoy batting. We've played a lot of cricket with her, so nice to have a little partnership in the middle.

Yeah, and there's been talk about Freya and Dani really kicking on at the back end. That didn't happen today. And in the last over, you still had Charlie and you had Sophie coming in and hitting a couple of boundaries as well. Does that go back to and point to what you were saying about everyone seems to be contributing in that batting lineup?

Yeah, 100%. Um, obviously Charlie and Soph haven't had a huge amount of time in the middle, so that's kind of quite a nice thing sometimes to get that lower order a little bit of time. And I thought they're brilliantly, um, great options on that wicket. Um, like, I think our clarity going in, um, particularly on a wicket like this was really good. Obviously Charlie using reverses and then yeah, Sophie using the bounce to go over fine leg to score boundaries straight away. So yeah, it's really nice that we do have that depth and I think just finding a way as a unit to really punch out scores like we've obviously set a little bit more and we've set amazingly like yeah, there must be some, some sort of stat around our last 3 set and obviously only chased once. But yeah, we're trending really nicely in particular as a batting unit, which is, is really nice to see.

You had the game sort of sewn up by halfway, it felt in that chase, but then there were a few dropped catches after that. Is that a concern?

No, not at all. Like, there's a few really tricky ones. Um, no, not a worry at all.

What happens now between— you've got Saturday against New Zealand, but how do you keep yourself ready for that semi-final?

I think just to have a nice day off tomorrow. A lot of us got family in town, which is really nice. And, um, yeah, just finding a way to switch off a little bit. I think that's the really nice thing about home World Cup. You tend to have your loved ones closer and you know places and you can go and escape the the pressure cooker of the tournament really. And then yeah, little training session down at the Oval I imagine, and we just want to keep that momentum going. I think we played some brilliant cricket, and tournament cricket is all about trying to peak towards the back end, and obviously we're in that semi-final now. So yeah, we want to continue what we're doing really well going into that New Zealand game, and yeah, hopefully, yeah, we'll find out what semi we're in and yeah, build into that really nicely.

Does it feel like something's building now?

Maybe, yeah, I think The support's been unreal. Like, that's the amazing thing about playing at home. I think the support for us and the momentum around the team is brilliant, and we've just got to keep doing what we're doing, keep delivering. I feel like we're in a pretty good place, like we're tracking quite nicely. There's always things that we can do better, of course, but yes, it's exciting, isn't it, to be involved in a huge day at some point next week at the Oval in that semi-final. Yeah, it's going to be really special. It's a great place to play cricket as well. So yeah, hopefully can keep the momentum going and, and people continue to, to support us and get behind the team.

Thoughts there of Heather Knight, the former England skipper, chatting to Matt Henry on the boundary edge after she played really nicely to, to hit 43 off 26 as part of England's total of 186 for 7. Uh, Catherine, final thought from you. Um, England have a few days just to take stock and think about the New Zealand game, yes, but also ahead to a semi-final. You've been been there, you've done it. What's your advice to those in the squad that maybe haven't, and what to expect in terms of the build of anticipation from the public and one thing and another?

Yeah, pretty much what Heather said. Time to sit back and just chill and relax. Take things very slowly, especially in this weather. Even the way you relax needs to be quite relaxed. Some people's versions of that is to go for long runs and long walks. Um, yeah, in this heat there's, there's got to be a few smarts about. Um, so I think the way they rest is crucial, how they recover, um, will be crucial. Um, and being around family, as she says, you always want your loved ones close when there's— you're in high stressful environments. Sometimes you don't get the luxury of that, but I do know there's a lot of family and friends around here at the minute, and the fans have been really incredible, and that always, always gives you 5, 10, 20% of a lift. So they've said that, she said that as well, we want them to get behind us. So we'd love to turn these numbers from 14,500 to 25,500, please.

Well, indeed. Well, credit to those that made it out today because it was incredibly, incredibly hot. Uh, Catherine, thank you very much indeed. Thanks to Isha Gaur as well.

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Well, elsewhere today, away from Lord's, the England men's Test captain Ben Stokes has been speaking publicly for the first time since an incident which saw him and fast bowler Gus Atkinson not selected for England's Test defeat to New Zealand at the Oval last week. Our cricket correspondent Stefan Schemilt has been at Trent Bridge for us ahead of the third Test.

Henry, I'm sure it's as hot there as it has been here at Trent Bridge. England have been building up to the series decider against New Zealand. Crucial game in the context of everything that happened over the Ashes winter in Australia. This was supposed to be the reset, but England have won only 2 of their past 9 Test matches. They've not lost a home series of at least 3 Tests since 2012. The buildup to this game has been dominated by the fallout from that nightclub incident, but Ben Stokes and Gus Atkinson have been cleared to rejoin the England team, 2 of 4 changes to the 11 that lost the second test at the Oval. All of those things that we've spoken about in the past 2 weeks, the curfew, the investigation, whether or not Ben Stokes would continue as an England captain or a player, his relationship with Brendan McCullum and the support he has or has not had from the England and Wales Cricket Board He covered them all today. I spoke to him earlier and I started by simply asking what did he want to say about everything that had gone on since he last played for England.

Yeah, it's been a pretty busy 2 weeks. A lot of, obviously, off-field tension. But it's— I know everyone wants to ask questions and Understandably, I get that. I guess for me, being back in this team now, being back here as captain, you know, it's about this week, it's about the game, it's about the team and making sure that the team knows that I'm fully focused on what we need to do this week. And I hope it's not been lost that it is 1-1. We're heading into the last game of the series against New Zealand and we know what this week means. It would always be a big game for us going into the last game with it all to play for, but I feel like now with everything that's gone on the last 2 weeks, there's a bit more riding on it. So it is a big week, and that's where, you know, me and Gus, I think first and foremost yesterday, needed to let the team in the dressing room know that although we've been out and a lot's gone on the last 2 weeks, we know what the most important thing is here, and I feel like we did a good job at doing that when I knew initially addressed the team and Gus spoke to the team, so yeah, they know our heads firmly on the game.

In the immediate aftermath of what happened, you just said about coming back into the team and speaking to them, but taking it back 2 weeks, how did you feel and how did that responsibility of not being with the team weigh on your shoulders?

Yeah, when you look at everything, when the game starts and you see everything going, you know, because obviously I was playing for Durham as I was keeping an eye on how the Test match was going. When you see things unfolding how you don't want them to unfold, that's where I guess everything starts to hurt you a little bit more as an individual. There's the repercussions of something like this extends beyond yourself as an individual. It affected, not only did it affect me, but it has an effect on Baz, has an effect on everyone else. You know, Keezy, it has an effect on the senior players in the group. When we had lads making the debuts, it has an effect on how that moment is for them. So, you know, you got to appreciate that and understand that and own that as well. So it's not a case of poor old me, it's like, well, no, there's a lot of other people have been affected by this as well. So again, when I came back into it, you've got to own that and take responsibility on that because Yeah, it's— I think that's part of your job as a, you know, let alone as a captain but also as a leader. You know, it's class when everything's going well and everyone's, you know, giving you kudos for this, that, and the other, but, you know, you've got to own things and look people in the eye who you know that it has had a certain effect on. So I had to do that, and I felt like I did that pretty well.

Is there ever a time when you thought you might not be England captain anymore?

To be honest, the whole— when the process was playing out, there was just that whole who— no one really knew what was going on. But the process is done, we've had the internal investigations done, the regulator investigations done. Me and Gus are now back here, I'm back in my role as captain, Gus is back in his role as, you know, one of the senior players in the group. So we've done all that, that's been done, it's been put to bed and, you know, me and him can both now focus on what we need to do this week.

And you were always certain that you wanted to carry on being a player, never mind the captaincy?

Yeah, again, it's a full thing where it's a long process to go through and it's got to go in stages. You don't know what's going on, you don't know what's happening, and then that's where it's very important to have a very, very good support network. Network around you, and I'm very lucky that I have managed to build that over, over time. But look, I'm back here, I'm back as England captain, and I can't change what happened over the last 2 weeks, can't change what has happened before that. But what I can do is I can affect what happens going forward, and what I can do is know that I've got a big role to play this week in making sure that this team can be the ones to say, or retaining the trophy that we're playing for.

You say you're back, you say back as England captain. Do you want to be England captain for as long as you are an England player?

Yeah, the England captaincy, it's one of those things where I come from, 35 now, and I've always like thought, like even before this stuff had all happened, is could I ever see myself playing for England and not being captain and it's a question that I've never really been able to answer to myself because it's been such a big part of my part of this career, if that makes sense. You look at some of the others who stepped away from captaincy and kept playing, I don't really know. I love playing for England, I love being captain of this team, and that's basically where I'm at with everything.

So you never got to an answer of that question?

No, as I get it, this is one thing that I've always asked myself, even before all this stuff, was like, could I see myself playing as just a player after doing it for so long? Don't know.

I'm sure you've seen all the stuff that's been written and said about your relationship with Brendan, and particularly when he spoke last week about his worry and his concern for you. Brendan spoke to us yesterday and said that you guys had had a good chat and that you still remain good friends, but that in— as part of that conversation, you both sort of agreed, you're not 100% sure where the idea that you two aren't aligned has come from. So what's your take on that?

Yeah, it's, again, it's me and Brendan, we've always been able to discuss things that I guess some people might try and avoid and find a bit awkward and just not want to even get into that situation where they're having discussions. And that's what I mean, discussions. Me and Baz don't agree on everything. We have discussions around things and he has his opinion and I have my opinion, but we always end up getting to a place where I understand where Brendan's coming from, he understands where I'm coming from, and then from that we can then make a decision. Because without having those two opinions, like, we can't really get to a place where we think the decision we're making is best for the team. Discussions should never be conceived as a, you know, disalignment on things. You know, there's— Baz is a coach and I'm the captain, and we're the ones who have to make decisions. So, you know, if I was a pushover, if Baz was a pushover, what, you know, there's no, there's no leadership there. And I've fully loved the relationship that me and Baz have been able to have professionally, and then because of the respect we have for each other, we've also been able to then form a very, very good relationship away from our work environment. Me and Baz are mates. When you're worried about friends and you're not quite sure what's going on, you're gonna, you know, want to look out for them, you're gonna be worried about them, ain't ya? So I think last week, in terms of the words that Baz used in the press conference, don't look into them too much. He cares about me, I care about him. And Baz cares deeply about everyone who walks into this team. So he doesn't give that away that often, doesn't give that perception, but Baz is a very caring person.

Did you feel backed by everyone at the ECB during this process?

Again, it was a process that needed to be played out. Process has been played out, me and Gus are back.

You frustrated by it, how long it took to get to an answer?

Yeah, again, I'm not gonna like— here in live was Was I a bit frustrated by the whole process? Yes. Has the process finished? Yes. I mean, goes back where we want to be. Yes.

We spoke to Brendan yesterday. He said after you'd got your runs at Durham last week, you text him to say, 'I'm back.' What does that mean?

Yeah, like, look, shy away from it. It's been a little bit shorter runs out in the middle over, you know, last few whiles, but the most pleasing thing for me from last week was just how I went out and felt about playing the game, batting especially. Again, I feel like sometimes time for me is the worst thing in terms of training, in terms of, I don't know, my other roles as captain, you know, like 6 months is a long time to think about things and maybe I was looking for something I didn't need to look for with my bat and I don't know, but What the last 2 weeks has done is potentially actually just freed me up a little bit and gone like, just get back to looking at the ball, trying to score off it, and hopefully don't get out. I mean, cricket is a very complicated game, but sometimes it's made more complicated than it is, and maybe I was overcomplicating it a little bit when it came to the bat. But that doesn't mean I'm going to go out there this week and, you know, blaze runs all over.

I hope so.

Would be great, but the positive thing for me last week playing for Durham was how I went out there and felt and I went about scoring my runs.

It's 1-1 in the 3-match series, big 3-match series after everything that happened in the winter. Are you aware of the pressure to get a result this week? I mean, you always say to us it's all about winning obviously and it's nice to win, but are you aware that pressure might come again if you don't get that result?

Absolutely, it's international sport Sport, it's the highest, you know, level of which we can achieve playing for your country, and that comes with pressure regardless. And has the pressure on this team ramped up more than probably— well, this is definitely the highest amount of pressure that we've been under since me and Baz have been a coach and captain.

Do you really think that?

I think so, yeah. And that's fine. It's how you deal with it is, I think, what proves if you're a good leader or not. And you either can ignore it but let it consume you, or you can accept it and deal with it. And I think what me and Baz have done is we've been able to accept that this is, you know, pretty high pressure. We've accepted that, but we know that what we need to do is go out there and win games of cricket. So, you know, it's a pretty simple thing to answer when, yeah, we're under pressure, but we know what we need to do to get that pressure from being up here to slowly eking further and further away, which is to win.

You say now is the highest moment of pressure, so even, I know, 2-0 down in a home Ashes or everything that went on in the winter, it's right now?

Yeah, that's what I mean, we're in the here and now and yeah, we're under a bit of pressure but as I said, you either got to look at it in the face and try and take it on or ignore it and it will still consume you.

Just as a couple of final thoughts, there seems to have been a lot of sort support from supporters and across the cricketing world for you over the past couple of weeks. Have you felt that?

Yeah, honestly, like I said in the press here and to other people there, that this is— I've played for England for a long time now, and, you know, I've given a lot of myself to this team, and I knew that I went out and played for a number of different things. I played for myself, played for my family, played for the love of the game, and always knew that, you know, a lot of it was for the fans. But honestly, over the last 2 weeks, it sort of made me understand yet again that how much support not only this team gets from the fans, but also I felt a lot of I felt a lot of love and a lot of support, and again, it's just another indication to me that, right, I go out there and I play for this, I play for that, but there's also a lot of people who love this English cricket team and love me. Sounds weird saying that, but you know what I'm trying to say. So yeah, look, I've been incredibly grateful for the support that I was shown over the last weeks and something that has not been missed in this whole 2 weeks of chaos. So yeah, it's been nice.

I'm not saying that you would have ever needed a reminder of that support or ever need a reminder of what the shirt means to you. It's always nice to have it though, isn't it?

It definitely is. And again, like, you know, when chaos happens and the something hits the fan— can't swear on BBC— I guess that's where you feel a lot of that support. So yes, it has been a tough 2 weeks, but there has been some positives that have come from it, and feeling the support from the fans has been one of those.

Last one. Tomorrow morning you're gonna put your blazer on again and come out and toss up. At some point this week you'll have your pads on and you'll walk down the stairs to bat. The atmosphere could be rocking. Are you ready for, I don't know how, what everyone inside this ground will show towards you, and do you think that might be quite emotional?

I don't know, I hope so. I genuinely feel that anyway, but how it plays out this week, I've got no idea. But you know, that's— yeah, they're not— we know that we've got some amazing fans. I'm pretty sure that we always get good crowds here because the atmosphere is always mint, and I don't think it's going to be any different this week. But you know, through everything that's gone on the last 2 weeks, yes, like, I appreciate the support, but also the team appreciates it. So don't only feel like you got to cheer bigger for me, make sure you cheer as big as you can for the other 10 players who go out there and play for the country as well, because we'll all be out there busting a gut to try and get the series win.

So that was Ben Stokes speaking to me at Trent Bridge. The 3rd and deciding Test starts on Wednesday morning and you can hear every ball on Test Match Special.

The TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

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