England well beaten as Australia get SEVENTH world title

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You're listening to the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

And Australia reclaim their crown. T20 World Champions for a 7th time. A dominant win over England on their home patch at Lord's, but Australia have owned it. Gardner and Perry embrace in the center. It is a hefty, hefty win by 7 wickets, and Australia have got their title back.

7-time winners of the T20 World Cup, even when it had a different name back in the day. They have been the dominant side. They've won 7, everyone else has won 3 between them, and no other countries won it more than once. It's an extraordinary run of dominance in the shortest format. They didn't win the first tournament in 2009, but they've hoovered up just about everything since then. Lost that final in 2016 against West Indies, and they had a rare run where they didn't hold either of the world trophies, the One Day World Cup or the T20 World Cup, for the last 9 months or so. But there have been a couple of those streaks since '09, but not many. Only 3 times for a few months, never more than about a year and a half that they haven't held one of the trophies. They've got this one back now and they'll be feeling content, more like things are right with the world.

Alex, England outdone, outplayed today. They just couldn't get going with the bat, maybe didn't read the conditions or the pitch or adapt quickly enough, and they have been utterly dominated.

Yeah, I just don't think they showed enough aggression, to be honest. I think the, the power play for me is, is where the game can be won or lost. Dot balls exactly the same. I know we're only into the 18th over, but 41 dot balls for England, 41 dot balls for Australia. The boundary count, a total, total difference. Um, and unfortunately, if you're only hitting 15 boundaries and your opposition's hitting 22, you know, you're not going to win the game. And it was that 170 that we spoke about, you know, as a bare minimum against this Australia side, because they will back themselves to chase anything, whether it's 150, whether it's 220. They will back themselves to chase it. They know how to go up and down the gears. Ash Gardner's not even had to get in and get going. Wareham, Molineux, Sutherland's not been needed. They bat very, very deep. They are dominant. They are world champions, and they are deserving of it.

And a player like Wareham, who was striking the ball at 180 through this tournament, not required, uh, like you say, Gardner barely used at the end. I think for me, if there's one moment, the key thing was Beth Mooney coming down and banging 4 over mid-on not that far into her innings, but saying, I'm going to take on the bowling, I'm going to be aggressive, I'm going to find boundaries. That's what England didn't have the confidence to do through their power play. They were anxious, they were— they constrained themselves as much as Australia's good bowling curtailed them. And I think going into the, the, the innings break, they were telling themselves a story that it had been really tough out there, been really hard to score, but it turned out that it wasn't.

Well, I think the strike rates the difference in strike rates makes a huge point in that England's best batter with strike rate was Freya Kemp, her 44 off 28, strike rate 157. No one else had a strike rate of above 115. It was 88 for Dani Wyatt-Hodge, 100 for Amy Jones, 109 for Nat Silverbrunt, and, uh, 115 for Alice Capsule, just 33 for Heather Knight. But Australia, 150 for Voll, 130 for Mooney, 140 for Litchfield, and 110 and 150 for Ash Gardner. That, yeah, is such a difference.

And the template they've got that we spoke about before they chased, where Voll and Litchfield are the two who've got the license to really go early, and then they've got the experience, the older, wiser heads with Mooney and Perry to work around them. And those four pretty much finished off the chase on their own.

It really was a commanding performance in Australia then, chasing down that 151 target. They got there with 17 balls to spare. That's the level of comfort, and only losing those 3 wickets along the way. The, uh, the players have been embracing in the middle. England had their own huddle in the center. The Australian teams are still— the Aussies are still out there in the middle embracing their support staff. Of course, they all streamed onto the field. We've got a band being set up right in front of us because Clean Bandit are going to be performing very shortly, leading us up until the trophy presentation. We'll get some reaction from down on the outfield as well. But yeah, uh, I'll take you through the scorecard before we get down for that reaction, because in that first innings, England— yep, stuttering with the bat, losing early wickets with Jones with the first out for just 6, giving Lucy Hamilton her first World Cup wicket. Danni Wyatt, Hodge out for just 8, 32 for 2 inside that 5th over. So the power play not going well. It's a little— a catch by Mooney down the leg side. Alice Capsie, reverse sweeping to be bowled by Molineux for 23. Heather Knight, LBW to Garth, one that stayed low, which was really the nature of the pitch at that point in time. Freya Kemp, a breezy 44 off 28 that England desperately needed, including one six. Nat Sciver-Brunt, 58 from 53, but even that wasn't enough. England needed more, they needed more boundaries, only 13 in all. The Aussies were accurate in their, in their bowling, and Kim Garth in particular, 4 overs, 1 for 20. Lucy Hamilton, 1 for 19. They looked to get after Ash Gardner in particular, 3 overs, 0 for 32. But outside of that, you had Molineux, 4 overs, 1 for 32. Annabel Sutherland, 1 for 34. Georgia Wareham, 2 overs for 9. And then in the chase, Georgia Voll played on to Lauren Bell, 17 for 1 in the second over. We'll pause for a moment and get some reaction. Henry Moran is on the outfield alongside the England coach Charlotte Edwards.

Lottie, your reaction?

Yeah, just, yeah, gutted really. I think we came here with so much belief and confidence to hopefully pull off something really special. You know, I thought we put ourselves in with a good shout. It didn't look easy to bat on first up to get to 150, but you know, the Australian team are a very good, good team and Yeah, we were completely outplayed there in the end. And yeah, so just disappointed.

Nat Sciver-Brunt said to us yesterday she didn't want to leave Lord's with any what-ifs. Did you see a side that was as bold as they could have been today with the bat, or was it just difficult in the conditions?

I think the conditions weren't easy. I mean, you know, Nat Sciver-Brunt's probably the best player in the world and she came off saying it wasn't particularly easy. And I thought they bowled well. They bowled straight, good change of pace. Yeah, we probably just didn't get that partnership going probably early on in the piece. I thought Kemp and Sivabrant were brilliant at the back end. That got us up to a total and I guess we didn't probably start as well as we would have liked with the ball, but they put a lot of pressure on us and, you know, credit to Australia. I thought, you know, Beth Mooney again on the big occasion stands up and obviously puts her side in a commanding position.

What do you say to your side now?

I'm really proud of them.

I said, you know, coming into today day, you know, where we've come from, the way we've played throughout this tournament. And there's so much, so many positives. T20 cricket is a tough format, you know, and, you know, we competed today. We weren't quite good enough, but there's lots of positive signs for the future for this group.

Do you feel that this is a team that can now look at this day and think, right, that's the blueprint of what we've got to be doing when you see Australia?

Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, they've led the way for a number of years now in women's cricket. So the depth they've got is why they can play the way they can at the top. So, so yeah, of course they are. We've known that. We just weren't— you need to be at your best to be in this Australian team. We weren't quite at our best today and hence why they're lifting the trophy now.

This tournament, a lot felt like getting England to the final was a big part of the overall narrative just for what today could be. Obviously, it isn't the fairytale ending, but how do you reflect more broadly on the competition and this England performance?

Oh, it's been a— it's been an amazing competition to be part of. I think, you know, the more teams being in it and we saw some brilliant games, you know, Ireland, Scotland, Netherlands. I thought they brought so much to this competition. I've loved it. Shame it's come to an end now, but I think it's done so much for women's cricket again in this country. You know, a sellout here for Lords again. Incredible. And hopefully we can build on this. We've got The Hundred next and hopefully that's a real platform for the sport to keep growing.

You are ultra competitive and you always want to win and that's what good athletes always want. But there'll be a hunger now from this team, won't there, to come back and show what they can do?

Yeah, there will be. And they, you know, they've really dug deep throughout this one. They're showing some real fight. They never gave up there at the end, which, you know, I'm really, really proud of. And our time will come. I don't— you know, we've got— we're building. You know, this is always going to be a quick turnaround for us, but we're certainly further than I thought we'd be in the journey that we've taken. And I think the next 12 months is super exciting for us as a group.

You said when you got the job, judge me at the end of the T20 World Cup. Where are we with that journey?

Well, that's your, your to judge me. But all I can say is I'm really happy with where we've come from. Yeah, I'm, I couldn't be prouder of this group, where they're getting to. And, and people are talking positively about this team now, which they weren't when I took over. So I'm, I'm super proud. And that's because the effort they've put in behind the scenes and, and we've won back the fans because they've come to watch us today, which is absolutely Absolutely outstanding. I can't thank the supporters and all of our families enough for the support we've had over the last 3 and a half weeks.

Because it does feel like the narrative has changed around this England team from a public perception.

Well, we're not talking about fitness and we're not talking about fielding. And that was one of the real— I want us to talk about the cricket and the cricket, you know, although we've missed out today, I don't think that's something we should be disheartened by. This is a very, very good cricket team. They've obviously dominated world cricket for a number of years and You know, we're not too far away.

Lottie, many thanks for your time and congratulations to your side for their performances in the tournament. And here comes Phoebe Litchfield. Goodness me, what a performance from this Australian side.

Yeah, it's gone to plan, hasn't it? I think we've been playing the way we wanted to play all tournament and today nothing changed. So it's pretty satisfying being on the winner's card.

A lot of talk about Australia being a bit of a wounded animal coming into this competition. How determined were you as a side? What was the messaging internally coming into this?

Yeah, we just— we know we're a good side. I know we haven't probably performed the best in those last two World Cups, but internally we know that, yeah, we're a bloody good side and we just got to believe that and just win those pressured moments. And that's what we did this tournament and we made it really simple and I guess followed through on that, which was really pleasing. And I think A lot has to go to our skipper. Sophie Molineux has done an amazing job setting us up both physically and mentally. But yeah, I think the group's in such a great, I guess, spot and performing well and having fun. And I think that's a recipe for success.

It did look fun out there. It looked like you were having the time of your life. Not a World Cup final.

Yeah, well, I think that's the only way to be, I guess, you know, packed crowd at Lord's, World Cup finals. It's stuff of dreams, so it's pretty easy to enjoy it.

In terms of this Australian side and the journey that they're on, it is a new side with a new captain, but it feels as though you just continue this incredible momentum that the side has shown over the last decade.

Yeah, I think that's exactly right. It's, it's easy to, to keep playing the way we want to play, especially with, with team— teammates that have been playing for 10+ years. And yeah, that legacy of Australian cricket will, will go on for, for decades. And I guess every new player comes in and knows what exactly what they have to do what they do and is motivated by the past players. And yeah, it's a pretty cool, cool team to be a part of.

Particularly special when it's beating England?

100%. They're an amazing side and credit to them, they had an amazing tournament and I know that they're one to beat and we got the rub of the green today, but I'm sure there's going to be fiery battles in the future. And I know that every World Cup, yeah, facing up against them is no easy feat. Defeat. So they played amazingly throughout the whole tournament, so credit to them. But yeah, just got over the line today.

What do the next 24 hours look like?

Just finally, uh, not sure. I think follow our skipper. She's a, she's a good partier. Um, celebrate well. We've worked really hard for this, and the, the last, I guess, 6 weeks has been massive. So I think a lot of us will sit down and look back and go, how cool is this? So, and not many people win a World Cup final, so we'll celebrate well.

Well played today, many congratulations. Thank you so much. Phoebe Litchfield down here on the boundary edge amongst some very, very happy Australian players.

Yep, thank you, Henry. You could just hear it in her voice. 48 she made today in a match-winning partnership of 100 for that second wicket along with Beth Mooney. 64 of 49 for her. So I've just finished off the scorecard. Uh, the second wicket was Litchfield, bowled by Charlie Dean, and then Mooney with just 11 runs to win LBW to Ecclestone for 64. It turned out that the— well, I think we knew at the time that the catch that was disallowed didn't have an impact on the, uh, on, on the result in, in any way really. But a word for— well, Phoebe Litchfield was destined to be a star, wasn't she, from a young, from a young age. And she didn't play in the, uh, 2023 T20 World Cup, the last time that Australia had, had won this trophy. So yeah, she wasn't going to miss this one. And you feel as if almost this, this innings has sort of been the, the making of the star now.

It's a, it's something of a coronation, isn't it? She missed a bit of the tournament through the group stages with that quad injury, played the first game, then had to sit out for a while, um, came back in and looked very rusty here against India, was frustrated, was whacking herself in the pads constantly when she couldn't time the ball. But timed it pretty nicely out here today. And there's that, that fearlessness they've cultivated, and I think that's the big difference today, that difference in attitude where England were trying to be cagey. They were, they were telling themselves they were playing it smart. I think Nat Sciver-Brunt was thinking, well, I just have to bat through the innings rather than how do I dominate the innings. And you see a player like Litchfield come out at that young age, not a care in the world, saying, I, I'm not here to survive, I'm here to make it I'm here to make an impact. And that's what she was able to do. The speed of her scoring rate, uh, picking up a couple of sixes along the way, 48 off 35. That's what kills a small chase like this and, and made the second half of it a formality.

Yeah, it was a clip of her batting in the nets when she was 16 years old, wasn't it, for New South Wales? It went viral, and that led her to making her WBBL debut, then into the Australian side. And here she is winning a T20 World Cup with a fine hand with the bats and in partnership with Beth Mooney. Some reflection, Alex, on what Charlotte Edwards had to say. She of course said positive signs for the future. Do you concur with that? And where do you see this setup now with Charlotte Edwards as coach, where she's taken them from to getting them here to this final despite a heavy defeat today?

Yeah, I absolutely agree with her. I think the way she said that people are speaking positively about this side now, they're not talking about the, the fitness and the fielding, they're not you know, slating the team with the way that they're playing, I think absolutely she is absolutely spot on. You know, um, this team have been criticized a lot, but they have also improved so much so quickly under Charlotte Edwards. The way they've fielded throughout this tournament has been exceptional. The way they've bowled, the way they've batted— I think the fielding for me has been a huge, huge improvement. And ultimately, sometimes you are just beaten by a better team, and Australia are the better team. But the way England have played, they've not put a foot wrong today, really, have they? You know, they've— yes, they didn't take on the power play in the way that they, they could have done, or they have done throughout the tournament, but just one of those things.

Let's hear from our player of the match, Beth Mooney, for an excellent 64 off just 49 balls with 10 boundaries in there. We need to, uh, get a mic to Beth at some There you go. You seem to like finals, don't you? You seem to step up.

Yeah, just, just happy to be here. I think, you know, it's been pretty well documented. We didn't quite make it this far in the last two ICC events. So yeah, just woke up this morning pretty grateful we made it this far.

Let's talk about how you played. First of all, with the gloves. I mean, brilliant takedown the stumps with Danny Wyatt. And then obviously your batting. Let's talk about your keeping first of all. What did it feel like out there?

Yeah, I've you know, warmed up in the tournament. I think at the start I was a little bit rusty, but got some great support in our coaching staff with Gav Twining and, and Shells backed me with the gloves and Sean Flegler. So I've had plenty of help along the way. I can't take too much credit. It's been really nice to, to have some consistency with the gloves and to play a role in the field as well.

Tactical as well, to stand up to the stumps quite a lot today, it seemed.

Yeah, you know, it's obviously a conversation that happens between me and the bowlers. I'm more than happy to do what they they tell me to. You know, it's their plans and their job to execute. And thankfully they back me to clean up anything that goes a bit awry. But yeah, we're umming and ahhing about that review off Dan. But yeah, we got there in the end.

And 64 off 49 balls. So you went pretty quickly, moved around the crease a lot as well. What was your game plan today?

Oh, I think, you know, like I spoke about in the semifinal, it's really important to settle the dugout in the powerplay in a big game. So, um, I thought Folly hit the ball really well and then had an unfortunate dismissal. So, you know, and Phoebe came out and nailed it from ball one. So, you know, I just kept going and, and tried to make sure we got ahead of the game as early as possible.

Beth, congratulations on your player of the match today. Uh, go and join your team and enjoy.

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Yeah, well-deserved player of the match, Beth Mooney. Now, scene which has gone on for a number of minutes now and still ongoing is down at the fast side, in front of the dugouts, just inside the advertising hoardings, is Sophie Ecclestone sitting on the grass. And the player who is kneeling down next to her with her arm around her, consoling, and can— and has been there for some time— is Australia's Georgia Voll. I think the two of them have played UP Warriors together in the WPL. But what wonderful sports— sportsmanship to see that at the end of a final where tensions did run high at the end when Ecclestone's catch was turned down and she was furious. And she said, didn't play in the 2017 World Cup. She didn't get that chance. This was to be her moment. Let's go to the player of the tournament now. Congratulations!

Big smiles for the camera.

Welcome.

First of all, as an experienced player who's been around, seen many World Cups, do you still get the same buzz? Does it feel the same today?

Yeah, um, you know, this has been on the calendar for a little while for us, so You know, it's just nice to be part of the squad first and foremost and have a role to play opening the batting and wicketkeeping. So yeah, just pumped to be here. There's been a lot of evolution in this group in the last 12 months and a lot of growth and some fun times as well. So really nice that we've capped off with the win today.

And of course the whole tournament as well. Your side has been so consistent. What do you think the key to your success has been?

Well, I think just playing the game with a bit of conviction, a lot of a lot of bravery and backing each other and having lots of belief. You know, I mentioned we've got a lot of support on the sideline. Our coaching staff and support staff are amazing. Had a couple of niggles along the way that we've managed to, you know, have a full squad to pick from in a big game. And I think that, you know, we can't shy away from how important that is. So it's a great group to travel with. We've been on the road for 5 and a half weeks and, you know, plenty of people have come over from halfway across the world to watch the final, some a couple of days ago. Some a few weeks ago. So we feel the love and feel the support here and back home.

Word on your new captain as well. Obviously pretty exciting to come and win this tournament. What's she been like?

Yeah, Soph's been amazing. She's just calm and composed and doesn't look too flustered. I think she's put her own spin on the captaincy and been a great leader. I think she's been a great leader in Australian cricket for a long time. People probably just haven't been able to see that., we're fortunate we get to see it firsthand. And, you know, the girls have really got around her and it's just amazing icing on the cake for what's been a pretty amazing tournament for us as a group.

Well, Beth, you got a lot of silverware to look after. Put it in the home and cherish it well. Well done again.

Thank you. Double celebration for Beth Mooney, gets a couple of, couple of mementos to take home with alongside a World Cup winner's medal, which they will be presented with in due course. Yeah, just that beautiful moment down there with Sophie Ecclestone. She was distraught, said she was always— she'd made her England debut before the 2017 World Cup but couldn't play in the tournament because she had to do her A-levels. And she was advised, do your studies, your England career can wait. And then she had this opportunity. And yet there'll be— there were tears of joy from the Australians, and there'll be tears of upset from the England side, Alex.

Yeah, because, you know, home World Cups don't come around very often. It might be that some of the girls' first and last or only home World Cup, because the reality is that the cycles, you know, the next World Cup, wherever it is, you know, you've got to wait a long time for it to be back here in the UK. So yeah, England will be gutted, you know, they had a real opportunity, they'd been brilliant throughout this World Cup, but I think on reflection, when the dust has settled and they have really thought about this game, they'll, they'll recognize they've been beaten by a better team.

I think just a note on the player of the tournament, there may be some people who would say, well, it should be Danny White-Hodge, 302 runs in the tournament, Mooney 238. I think the key there would be that Mooney made 50s in both of the knockout games. Danny White-Hodge didn't make a score in either of the knockouts.

Yeah, those things carry weight, don't they? And doing it here in, in a final in that this big pressure situation. Clean Bandit in the background, by the way, have taken to the stage in front of us on the outfield as players are meeting and greeting their family and friends in the outer as well and signing some autographs. It's stage is also being set up at the far side where they'll be presented with their, with their winners medals. The significance of this, Jeff, from the Australian perspective, for Sophie Molineux as Australia's new captain, because there have been, you know, a number of queries, a lot of surprise when she was made captain, but she's now at the first time of asking led Australia to a T20 World Cup trophy.

Yeah, understandably there was a degree of controversy because Molineux is someone who's missed a lot of cricket with injury over the last few years has been unavailable a lot of the time. And so the reason that the hierarchy rated her so highly, that was something that they talked about internally a lot, but it wasn't something that was broadly known to people outside of the setup. And they— I don't think they communicated that very well either. There was very much just a sense of, well, you just have to trust us, she's great, rather than really getting into specifics of why they'd preferred Molineux over other players who, who've been in the side for longer, who, and who are much more likely to be more obvious picks in a best 11. So Molineux had that, those question marks over, over her ascendancy to the captaincy. Came in and captained the series in the West Indies where she had to sit out of several games, where she played some games but wasn't able to bowl. All of these kinds of irregularities that just didn't feel very Australian because generally there's a clarity of thought about leadership structures. They put her in place with two vice captains. One of those vice captains isn't in this 11, Talia McGrath. Ash Gardner is in the 11, but then wasn't used to captain when Molineux was missing because McGrath was. It's been confusing and I think it has been badly communicated and badly managed, but nothing shuts people up like success. So they've come into a World Cup, they've cruised through it unbeaten. I mean, frankly, they should have in the group stage. India was likely to be the big challenge, and they met that challenge with great surety out here on this ground. And that was probably the stiffest challenge they faced, was having to chase down that 170. But they've done it with ease in the final. And I think what we keep being told about Molineux is that she's someone who's able to keep people calm and keep people level without losing some of a sense of fun. She's very dry and serious in her media engagements, but Even something like her address to the nation that she recorded in the long room a couple of days ago to say, forget about the football, come and watch us win a World Cup. You know, there is a sense of humor there. She just doesn't let it out when, when people like us are looking. So you've got to have some level of trust that within that team environment, she's able to make them feel good about the fact that they're here. And I think what we saw today was a team reflected in Litchfield's attitude, Vol's attitude, that they are really happy to be here rather than nervous about being here.

Yeah, and she was the one dancing on stage leading the charge, wasn't she, with Katy Perry at the MCG in 2020.

She might be slightly more withdrawn about doing that now that she's got the captaincy armband, but you never know, you might just see her, well, probably starting in the, in the tavern as soon as possible.

Well, it is an incredible story for her, 6 years later with stress fracture 2 years struggles with injuries to then be lifting a T20 World Cup.

And a player who did it tough domestically because she, she led the Melbourne Renegades at a very young age when they were the worst team in the comp, or, you know, up there, down there with the Melbourne Stars as the worst team. They had no international players a lot of the time. The big names didn't want to go and play there, and it was left to players like Sophie Molineux and Molly Strano to, to lift that team up. And she did. She built that team bit by bit, season after season, became an opening bat, did every job that needed to be done, uh, and, and had the commitment to play with a poor team and make something of them so that they are a force in that league now. Um, so that was a big part of, of, I think, why they wanted to turn to her for leadership once that, that spot became available.

Alex, England outplayed here, and it means Australia's dominance over England in World Cups across all formats now extends to 8 out of 8. It's such a familiar question, isn't it? But how, how does an England side find an answer? Charlotte Edwards will have, you know, more opportunities to try and solve this puzzle.

They're on the right path, they absolutely are. And I think the one important thing that happened and is happening is the importance of all-rounders. Australia were way ahead of the game when it came to all-rounders and being a— everybody being able to bat, everybody being able to bowl, and everyone being exceptional fielders. So England are on the right path. They've got Freya Kemp, Dani Gibson, Charlie Dean as well. Sophie Ecclestone can hopefully become a little bit better with the bat. Um, so they are on the right path. Their fielding's become better. They've not been, um, noticed because they're fielding in a bad way throughout this tournament. They've been noticed because of positive things. So England are on the right path, um, Australia are just ahead of England as they have been for a long, long time.

Uh, thank you to Geoff Lemon who has been with us throughout this Women's T20 World Cup, and welcome back Katie Martin for a final chat and a bit of an overview. Katie, on this tournament, because this final has been watched by 28,887 in this ground, which is a record for for a women's match at Lord's. Overall, the tournament's broken records, hasn't it, for attendance at grounds. So just to start with that, the impact that the tournament overall has had on that global scale.

Yeah, I think we talked about leading into this tournament that this was going to be the biggest one ever. The amount of tickets that was sold even leading into this tournament, to see group phase— I remember the, the Oval and how many tickets were sold out there, and even in neutral games. And I think it's such a great view to be able to see spectators in and supporting different teams. And I think when you reflect on the results as well, there's been Scotland, how outstanding they were. Ireland picking up their first win in the T20 World Cup against the West Indies. Alex, yes, I know you're nodding away, but it just shows that, you know, there's more and more opportunities. Teams are getting closer. Yes, I think at the top end of the scale, the investment does show that, that, that there is still a gap.

And that was where Hayley Matthews made some very strong statements, didn't she, as West Indies?

And rightly so. Rightly so. I think, you know, she— for them to get through to the semi-final and then be absolutely hammered by Australia shows the huge gap.

That's also why tournaments like this are important platforms for players to make their voices heard, because at other times a post-match press conference will be lost. But actually, at these tournaments, the world, the cricket world, is listening and paying attention.

You always feel— and you'll know this, Alex, playing here in 2017— you always feel responsibility as a player to be able to continue to develop it and to bring new faces into the game, new kids playing the game as well. And you know, I guess that's what England's disappointment will be, is that they had the opportunity, they would have felt, to inspire a nation. But I think they've done that all the way through the tournament. And listening to Charlotte Edwards and what she's brought back, she said people have texted her and said, we're so proud, we love tuning in to watching England play their cricket. And I think we're seeing that all around the world. Yes, you always love it, you know, an Australian team to be strong. And, and I think it's been good for cricket over the last few years to see others competing. And it does— it's tournament play, isn't it? Sometimes it's not the best team that always wins, but we have seen that today. Hopefully it's not going to be continued dominance for Australia, cuz none of us like that, do we, Alex?

Spoken as a true New Zealander.

But I think just in general, as a tournament has shown, yes, there's still investment gaps in particular areas, but it shows that when the players have the opportunity on the big stage, they really love to step up, and they are inspiring, you know, different generations to be able to continue to pick up the game. And I felt this tournament was probably that generational shift, when you see a Phoebe Litchfield, a Charlie Dean, that had been grown— had grown up watching a lot of their idols playing, to now have the opportunity to be able to, to do this and wear their team's colors. And I think it'll just continue that strength. You throw in the Olympics in 2028, maybe there'll be a few Scottish people in the Great Britain side. Yeah, we'll wait and see. But yeah, I just I just think it's just continued to evolve the game and the style of play now compared to 2009 when we were first here is so different.

Yeah, I wanted to look at the totals as well, because if you tot up how many 200+ scores there have been— Tot up. Tot up.

I said total.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 scores in all T20 World Cups going back to 2009 of over 200, of which 5 of those have come in this tournament. We didn't see that today, and what the pitch— he has a large part to do with that. And then that's a conversation to be had about— everyone knows the pitch is here at Lord's. They're moving towards drop-ins, and today was not the spectacle of the pitch.

I'll tell you what, there's a huge argument that the final could and should have been at the Oval. Yes, it's the home of cricket, and yes, you know, it was brilliant today, absolutely brilliant today, but the wickets are better at the Oval and they still get the crowds there.

Yeah, I've got record crowds there for women's matches as well. Well, that's a debate being had, as reports say, about the, the World Test Championship final potentially. But yeah, in terms of those scores though, we have seen good pitches around the country, but then the skill set and the strength, the power to match it, to be hitting those big scores.

I think we've seen the evolution of the game, and the one thing I've loved is that the boundary ropes haven't been brought in nice and tight. It's allowed to, you know, for spinners to stay in the game, and it's allowed the running between the wickets and actually emphasize the athleticism. And that's come from the professionalism of the game, the investment in terms of those high-performance programs. And guess as a, as a player, maybe you look at the likes of Netherlands that were in, in their first World Cup, to be able to see and compete against Australia and say, actually, that's the best team in the world, this is what we need to do as an organization. Sometimes you have to be involved to show and understand what is needed back home to be able to invest in your game and to see where this is Zad. And I think the, the professional teams have shown that they've definitely got the skill sets and they can do it consistently, whereas on the odd patches you might get an upset here or there. But generally speaking, the cream of the crop usually rise with their skills. But I think, look, the game's a different game now, and we're seeing those 200 scores I think will become more regular, and the wicket does play a massive part in that.

Yeah, and talking of investments, the, the prize money for this tournament was the biggest pot overall. The prize money that the Australians will take away is the same as what New Zealand won, wasn't it, 2 years ago, which was $2.34 million. So that's £1.75 million for the winners.

£1.75 million, what's that divided by 15?

You do the maths. I'll let you get your calculator out and you can work out. Susie Bates built herself a sauna with her winnings.

She did, yes. Most New Zealanders have a house, but to be fair, it's probably cheaper than a hotel room for a night here in London.

Spoken as a true tourist.

About 80 grand each.

Yeah, you can do a lot with that.

Jeez.

That's also where investment does need to filter down to the associates and the likes of Netherlands, Scotland, and Ireland playing here. And it was a joyous moment seeing Ireland get their first win over like 12 years of playing T20 World Cups to finally get over the line against West Indies. But they need more matches, don't they? And they need more funding in order to be able to stage more matches. The ICC annual conference, interestingly, is being staged in Edinburgh. I think Jay Shah, who's been here today, they're all traveling there tomorrow for that. That hopefully is an indication of we realize we need to embrace the associates, and that's where there is room for growth in the game.

When I think about women's, the 2009, even 2017, now there was what, 7 games that were put on TV, and that was only—

we didn't have DRS at all the grounds.

I failed, but what is it, 9 years ago, just I think that the development and the broadcast that's on, and you guys being here and us being here to broadcast this tournament, and the DRS in every game and all the technology— 9 years is such a short span in terms of the context of that. So yes, it has grown quickly, and rightly so. I mean, 2017, New Zealand could have done with a couple of extra run-out opportunities with, um, going upstairs. We won't, we won't reflect on that, Al. But I just think there's, there's been that now promotion of the game that we're now being able to create heroes at a women's cricketers you know, the likes of people saying my favorite's Elise Perry, and it's a young boy down the road. It's— that's the thing I love about being able to broadcast the game more. And I think associates now having the opportunity, and people saying actually there's— I didn't know that there was an Irish cricket team that I could actually be a part of. So that's a great thing about it. And I— we always talk about investment, but it is definitely in different context. Some teams need more matches. Bangladesh need more matches against higher opposition. They need just gymaxing to be honest. They're in a different capacity because of cultural issues, whereas others are just from a funding perspective as well.

But a huge thing that's changed as well, in 2020 the MCG in Australia felt like they had to put Katy Perry on to sell out the MCG, and they did, and it was brilliant. Brilliant spectacle, brilliant game of cricket, and a brilliant concert. Today we've had Rita Ora and Clean Bandit, but everyone's gone. There's nobody here. Clean Bandit are performing to a quarter-full stadium.

That was Katy Perry plus a brilliant game of cricket. We haven't had such the same entertaining cricket for the home team to get behind. The home team didn't win, so it—

no, but I'm saying people are here for the cricket. Yes, people here for the cricket, not the entertainment like they were in 2020.

Do you know what I find amazing in Australia? And Ellie, you've spent time there, and Al, you have as well. For this Australian women's cricket team, throughout the years they've been the greatest sporting team. They've won the most games in their sporting event than any other team in history. Yet you go back to Australia and WBBL when you compare to the Hundred, and they're not even half, half full. You might get North Sydney Oval. I find this team is so under-supported within their own country because they're— it's actually probably a byproduct of them being so good. They take it for granted almost. Yeah, they thought MCG, here we go, this is a breakout moment. But you still don't get sold-out crowds for Aussie games either. So I'd love Australia to not take this team for granted because they are that good. And I think we've seen England crowds go We love our girls, we love what they— the way that they approach the game, and they're going to continue to support them both in the Hundred competition and in the Blast, hopefully more years to come with that, and then continue on in these bilateral series.

Yeah, the visibility has, has really mattered, and I feel there has been a big drive, hasn't there, around this tournament with the, the drive to have the, the captain's and Nat Sciver-Brunt's face and England projected onto the billboards in Piccadilly Circus, for example. For these big movements of help to say the game is here, come and watch. And then in this tournament, people have come to the ground in their record numbers. They have seen and they have loved, and that's why they came to pack out Lord's, 28,000 today, majority all supporting the home nation. Just Australia's excellence came to the fore again, and England were not able to adapt and not able to put a total on the board that challenged.

The TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

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