From The Ashes: Ryan Harris

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Hello, I'm Stefan Chemult and welcome to from the Ashes, a series of test match special podcasts with those who've seen, played and lived some incredible Ashes moments. Here's Broad comes in, bowls, carries edge.

It is out and Stuart Broad takes the final wicket in a dream finale.

Broad comes in and bowls to Agar.

Agar swings the short ball away. He could be caught.

He's out. He's caught in the D. He's out for 98.

A wonderful debut comes to an end.

He goes bickle dashing up the balls outside the off stump.

He laces it through the offside.

He won't go for four, it'll certainly go for one.

That's all that Michael Vaughan wants.

He goes back for the second.

He's got his helmet off, his bat is raised and Michael Vaughan scores his.

First century against Australia.

Harris bustles in, balls to him. Oh, he's caught behind. It's wide. He flashed at it and he's walked. The umpire didn't give him out, he walked off. And that's a big wicket. My word.

Of all the bowlers to have taken at least 50 Ashes wickets since 1900, only two have a better average than Ryan Harris. Similarly, in the same time frame, just one has a better strike rate, and that is Mitchell Johnson. While Johnson terrorised England in the Ashes of 2013-14, it was Harris who bowled England captain Alistair Cook with what ESPN Crickinfo called the ball of the century, sharing the new ball with Johnson during Australia's five nil Demolition job. Harris has a unique perspective on one of the most devastating Ashes performances of all time. Despite a knee injury that limited his test career, England batter Kevin Peterson called Harris the best Australian pace bowler he ever faced. This is from the Ashes, Ryan Harris. Ryan. I think the first thing I like asking people when I'm talking about their Ashes careers. What's your earliest Ashes memory? When do you remember the Ashes being a part of your life or even being aware of it as being a thing?

Oh, Farad, I can't put my finger on it exactly but I mean growing up and my dad was, wasn't necessarily a cricketer but we had a lot of sport in our family there obviously English background. One of his brothers actually I think tried out for Leicester at one stage. Yes, they're always into sport. But when, when just as a kid I remember, you know, wanting to sit up because it was always on reasonably late when it was on in England. So the, the memories I have are probably more Ash's series in England rather than here. I probably, I didn't follow as much here, I probably. But I just remember sitting up late at night and watching Alan Baudry and both of them, Graham Gooch, Mike Gatting, all those just legends and you know, obviously our guy Shane Warne and, and I just remember as a young kid sitting and just watching how good the grounds were in England the game was and the commentary, you know, it was just a bit old fashioned cricket. It was, it was unreal to watch. And it's funny how as I say that I just, I don't, I don't have a lot of recollection of watching Ash's games here. It was just more about watching that in England it was just a summer here the cricket was on probably general. I was playing or trying to play some cricket. I was pretty, probably young but back then. But yeah, I remember just watching lots and lots of cricket in England. It used to be so good to watch your dad.

I think I'm right in saying this is from Leicester. What was that dynamic like then growing up? I mean who did the Harris family want to win the Ashes?

You know, it's always been Australia. My dad was quite young when he moved out. I think he must, I think he was around three or four years old so they moved out like when he was quite young. So he, him and his brothers. He's got a, he had a younger brother who's passed away but who wasn't born. He was born in Australia and then his two other brothers are slightly older. They were Only a couple years older. So they were all sort of instilled in the Australian, I guess lifestyle. You know. Their mum and dad are my grandfather and grand and grandmother. I don't even know why they moved out. They came out in the boat. They just. I think they just felt like they needed one of the better life or, or something different. I'm not exactly sure the reasoning behind it but now early doors. I've always, I've always said, you know, Australia. It's always been Australia who we've, who we followed, you know, even. Yeah, even I've never really known any of my family to barrack for England. It's always been Australia which is quite, quite amazing. But we don't have a lot of ties back then. Now I'm sure there's some family that we probably lost touch a bit with and my father actually my dad went back. It was a while ago now I think it was almost. It was a year. I retired 2015 because I was supposed to be playing. He booked a trip back there with, with my father in law actually and they, and I had to come home. But they still went and had a bit of a drive through, you know from. And went to Nottingham. They drove down through. All the way down to wherever the next test was. I can't remember that was. But you know, it went through Leicester and had a good look at it. Dad was a little bit disappointed I think with seeing his old, the old place but you know, it was nice for him to see that and where he. Where they sort of know where they believed and yeah, it was good. It was nice.

In the early part of your career before you played for Australia, there was a moment when you thought you were going to go and play county cricket as, as a local for Sussex, was there ever any point where you thought oh I might become an Englishman, that actually my international future might be with England or was it always Australia probably.

No, that was a bit of a. That was a mucked up situation. You know we tried, I sort of tried using my British passport for a year to try and get a year's get or cricket because I always wanted to play county cricket because I had that. There was sort of a. Well with what we thought was a rule that we could do that because Mushy Mushtaq army was playing at Sussex. So we thought there might have been a bit of a, a way to get around that for a year. And in the end it was close to going through. Then the last minute literally Chris Adams was walking out to toss the coin in Hampshire and the CEO. I can't remember the name of the CEO who was there, but he came running out and said, no, stop, stop. Ryan can't play, he's the next second overseas. Obviously you're only allowed. I went overseas so that sort of dented that stint. I went over there and trained for a month. Had a pretty bit of a pre season with him which was, which was fantastic. Met some great people and then. But yeah, that just sort of went a bit too far that. Because I never. The other part of that was as well as that was when I just realized I was relocating. The time I decided to move to Brisbane as well. So it all ended up in a bit of a mess. But there's been a lot of, a lot of questions, a lot of reports in that saying, oh, you know, you almost turn to be, to be English. And I probably, I was never going to do that but you know, basically almost had to say that I was to play, to play here at county cricket which was, as I said, it was a very mucked up situation.

You didn't make your test debut until you were 30. Was there a time when you thought that ship had sailed?

Not really because I didn't, I didn't really move to Brisbane to play international cricket. I moved to win Sheffield Shields and one day trophies and, and as I said, you know, Queensland have a knack of just knowing how to win in their sport. It's unlike it, it sounds really, really silly but the Queensland team I was going to, Andy Bickle was sort of on the back end of his career and I guess, well, they saw me as a bit of a replacement for him to. When he was sort of, I think he played one year or tried to play one year coming back from a shoulder up and it didn't quite work. So I was sort of a replacement for him. So I sort of moved up there just purely to try and win, you know, trophies. And as it happened again, I think I was, I think it was 27 or 26, probably 27, bad memory, 28 when I did that. And then before you knew it I was, I was, you know, I've made my way into the one day team, played a game where I got called in as a replacement and Sean Tate didn't come up in the warm up. So all of a sudden I was playing against South Africa in Hobart and then I didn't play again for almost 10 or 12 months. So I had an injury in that time as well. But yeah, so I didn't really Even then I was, I had a taste of it and I felt as though I always thought if I was going to play cricket for Australia, I'd probably end up playing white ball cricket, you know, because I could bowl pretty good. Batted okay, definitely lower order, but batted okay and could feel it all right. So it was more sort of the format. And then as I said, once things clicked and I got back fit again, I think I came back from a shoulder, just a clean out of my shoulder. I sort of, it just sort of kept snowballing and you know, kept taking wickets. Got back into this Australian one day team and then from there that sort of form in the one day team, I think I took two fifers against Pakistan in a row here and then we went over to New Zealand and, and Boulder right over there and it sort of got, I got picked in that test tour and then I ended up making my debut in test cricket. So again, it was 30. It was. I'd love to have been a bit early, but I mean I wouldn't have. Even if even I was sort of bowling well enough at those times when I was a bit younger, I wouldn't have got in anyway because you had Gillespie, McGrath and Lee and Bickel and Kasperwitz and you know, all these legends that are great bowlers that are still, that were still playing. I mean they most. Well, McGrath retired in 2009 I think, and the couple of them the year or two before that. I played my first one day with Brett Lee so he was still going and that was in 2009, so I wouldn't have played, I don't think. But still, you know, again, again I, you know, everyone says to represent your country in any, any format of sport or, you know, cricket, it's a dream come true. But to have a bag of grain is a, is a great achievement, you know, and again, something I thought I'd never do.

Over the next half an hour or so we'll talk about your ash's career. I think that one thing that might come up often is knees. So. So I don't know, maybe we should clear that up straight away, you know.

Well, the knee was only the knee. Everyone keeps saying knees. It was only my right knee.

Okay.

That was the, that was the reason that, that was the, the ending. Well, that ended my career. I had a, a dodgy knee that. Oh, it goes back to when I was in high school. I, I had a knee operation. I tore a cut meniscus when I was fielding. Was only young, 17, I think I was playing second grade and I fielded the ball and I had a sort of decent chunk of meniscus repaired and I had to sort of go quiet for probably about six to eight months while it healed and. And sort of, you know, worked its way back in. And then I reckon about four months in, it started feeling right. And I took a big, what we call a hanger of afl. Footy up someone's back at school and it ripped it again. And in the end the doc took out a decent chunk because it was. It was, you know, not ideal, but it was, it was. It wasn't going to heal again. So. And so fast forward, what's that? Probably 15, 17 years. Six. 15 years. The area that ended up causing me to retire was that area where it was, over time, it, just because of the meniscus wasn't there. It just kept wearing away. And the day at Kent when, you know, I didn't go to the West Indies because my wife were having a baby, so I missed that to her. So I got myself unbelievably fit. I was the fittest I'd ever been in my career. And then went over and had a couple of training sessions and was bowling well before I left. Bowled a fair bit and got to that game in Kent and there was a ball that I bowled that I felt a bit of a click in my knee, knee that. And I'd had a lot of different cracks and clunks and things in my knee, but this just felt a little bit different. It was sort of the inside of my knee, the joint. And I sort of went off and saw the physio who. Alex Contouris, who looked after me so well and. And it gave me, pointed me in the right direction of great medical advice. He just did a couple of knee tests that he'd. Or that he'd done before, and I couldn't sort of get the pain, so I thought, oh, maybe it's okay. And I went back out and bowled and bowled. I actually bowled absolute junk up until then. I went back out and finally worked out because I hadn't bowled in a game for a while, that I bowled pretty well the last six overs. The game finished and then I went off to London to get a scan on my knee and the boys were. Then I met him back in Essex and I had to play that test, that game, to try and play the first test because I'd been at it for a while. And in the end we've got the scan back in my neck. I actually cracked the top of my Tibia. So I had. I'd had a bit. I had a bit of pain there, but it wasn't. It wasn't as. It wasn't anything. Well, in that. At that period of time, even when I bowled. And it wasn't sort of anything that I had anything worse than I had before. But as the days went on and I tried to bowl the morning of that first. That. That second tour game at Essex, and I couldn't do it. And once we got the results back, we worked out why. So that was the reason why. That was my troublesome knee the whole. Through my whole career. I had it through probably through most of my Test career, because I had it sort of the second year I moved to Queensland, but it was manageable. There were times where I'd, you know, I'd bowl on the day's play and it swell up and it was a bit of a novelty, actually, that I'd go to the. Every, obviously, after a day's play, we have a team room at a hotel where we go in and do recovery and physio. And every now and then the doctor would come in and have to withdraw some fluid out of my knee to become a bit of a novelty to the boys to come and watch and see how much they could get out just to free it up. And it was amazing how it just freed up. So, you know. Yeah, so it was. It was. It was just a thing that I managed over the years. And to be honest, what happened to that. What happened that day in Kent could have happened three, four years before, but it just didn't. So it was disappointing because of the state, the, you know, The. The training and hard work I had done to get to that Ashes series. And for it to go then after being, you know, the best shape of my life, that was probably the most disappointing thing.

Your first taste of Ash's cricket came in in that 2010-11 series when England. England won. You know, that was a bit of an Australian team in transition and a very, very strong England team. What. What are your. What are your memories of that series? As a first taste of.

Of Ashes cricket, we couldn't get England out. The memory I have, it was phenomenal. I also got injured in that series as well. I missed the first Test where I think we bowled England out quite cheaply, and then they batted in the second one for 510 or something like that.

Yeah, yeah. Alistair Cook.

Yeah, that's right. A double hundred. I missed that game. I played in Adelaide where that was just a nightmare. England were Just relentless. They were. We had a good team, but you, like, there was a little bit of transitioning there, but that I. Yeah, the recollection of that is we just couldn't get him. It couldn't get you guys out. I mean, Cookie was phenomenal as he was through his whole career, but that series just could not. We just couldn't get him. Trotty was unbelievable. Ian Bell, kp. You know, we. We just, we could not. We kept, you know, revisiting plans and talking about how we. What are we doing and we just. We were doing everything pretty right. It's just they were better, way better. And, and, you know, obviously end up coming on, coming out on top, so. But I ended up breaking my ankle running into bowling. The Boxing Day Test, that was the other shocking thing that I had as well. So I ended up missing, well, the last Test with that series as well. But, yeah, just that. That was. Oh, I mean, I just. Yeah, just. Just remember going, walking and changing the brakes and just thinking, what do we. What. What do we have to do to get these bikes out? Because they scored so many runs and then bowled really well. Jimmy bowled really well. They all bowled really well as well.

But you had success. I mean, you took nine wickets at the wacker to level the series. So you'd had a taste of Ash's success personally. Bells to Pryor, who is caught in.

The gully by Hussey.

The ball bounced on him. Pryor looks quizzically at the pitch. It took the splice of the bat and just lobbed in a very good catch by a diving hussy to his right.

And Australia, well, it's been obvious since.

Yesterday evening they were going to win. And five wickets for Ryan Harris, who has really established himself in this Australia side now after his knee injury.

Yeah, I mean, that was, that was nice to be able to bounce back and especially after Adelaide and we knew, we thought, we knew once we got over that Adelaide disappointment with, you know, we thought going to Perth, you know, we got again, coming to a place it's a little bit different. The conditions are here a bit different here, they're a bit different to the gabber there. You know, Gaba's a bit more slower bounce where here it's fast bounce and, you know, so we thought we'd have a chance if we can get there, play well there and then get it back on an even kill. Then we, you know, going into Melbourne, which we hadn't lost a lot of Boxing Day tests, would be a massive chance. But again, we Just we did well here and we thought the momentum. We managed to crack the armour in their batting and we thought, yeah, we had a bit more momentum going into Melbourne but they just did it again. They were just too good.

In 1011. What did you know? What was your personal relationship with Mitchell Johnson and what did you see him go through in that series?

Just remind me. That was sort of. That was the time, I guess, where he was. He was struggling with his rhythm, I think, and that's right. Yeah, he just. Yeah, he was. I think for the first time his career was probably challenged with what he was trying to do and the ball wasn't coming anywhere near what he would like and just probably, I guess he caught this form. He just. And then I guess mentally I reckon he sort of. I haven't spoken to him for a long time about it. Maybe just started second guessing himself as well and, and, and what he was doing. And then, I mean that happens unfortunately in this when there's so much pressure on, you know, he's in there to do what he was in there to do, basically what he did in the next series, 13, 14 in Australia, to go in and intimidate and bowl fast and he couldn't quite get that. And, and again, the way that England were batting, they handled him and he probably wasn't at the top pace that he wanted to be at and maybe his body was a little bit sore as well, you know. And then I think not long after that, I think he ended up doing a tendon in his toe which in South Africa, which was almost, it almost came in a really good time for him because it just gave him some time out of the game. He just needed some time out of the game. He was struggling with a couple of things and he was able to get away for, I think it was for about nine months and, and you know, with this injury and, and just refresh and you know that that would have been, I think 11, 12. I think that may have happened because he came back in time for 13, 14 because he missed the 13 in England because they were back to back that year. So. Yeah, look, I, I mean I've probably never really asked him directly but you know, sort of touched on it. Just, I think just, you know, the, the confidence in himself. He's probably second guessed, which he never really probably did in his, in his whole career.

You mentioned that 2013 Ashes in, in the UK because there was obviously a time there was a bit of turmoil around the Australian team that a bad Champions trophy. Before that there was the, the tour of India that didn't go well. 2 nil down after the first two tests, there was an incident between David Warner and Joe Root in a bar, all those things. But when Darren Lehman came in as, as coach, even though so many things were going against you, did you feel like a bit of a corner had been turned, even if it wasn't necessarily the result reflected in the, the series score line, which ended up being 3 nil to England.

Yeah, the dynamic definitely changed. I mean, Mickey Arthur was. And that's the other part. Part we had a change of coach as well, you know, a week out from the first Test. So. And I was actually on that Australia tour getting some overs and games under my belt, which Darren was coach of. So I mean it was. We didn't, we didn't sort of expect that to happen. I guess it sort of surprised. Well, I mean the senior group, maybe the leadership group may have had an inkling that was going on, but that didn't trickle down to the rest of the boys. So you know that after the disappointment of the champions trophy, you know, we had, we had some guys come back from there, I think Phil Hughes and Matthew Wade. They came literally that night, I think after losing that last game and what needed to come and get some, some time in the middle and some, you know, game time with the Red Bull. So. But once all that happened, I remember, you know, it's like it was yesterday where Darren disappeared for a couple of hours and we were like, you know, where's the coach? Where has he gone? And that was when Brad Haddon, who. He was pretty good at working things out. Had he had a. He thinks a bit different about different things. He sort of said to me, I reckon Buff's going to coach us. We coach by the end of the day or so. We sort of. But once, once he sort of said that a few of us started looking around and there was, you know, we had. James Sutherland had come to the ground, I think Pat Howard, who was a high performance manager. So we all looked around and thought, something's going on here. And it did. Unfortunately for Mickey, he sort of, you know, got told, I think the next morning that he was no longer the coach and Darren was appointed straight away. And the first thing we. It was the day after the. The game. I think again, it was at Taunton and we actually know it might have been. Where was that game? Oh no, it was at Gloucester. I think we went straight on the. Gone straight on the bus the next morning. Basically said goodbye to Mickey because he Wasn't coming with us. And then we went to Somerset. We got into the hotel and Boof had this massive meeting and it was just about bringing all we, you know, we've got to be together, we've got to be in this together sort of mentality. And he did. He just bought a bit. We put a bit of fun to it. Boof's a bit of a larrikin. He was well respected by majority of the team. He played with a few of the guys. Michael Clark, you know, Shane Watson, he played with a few of these guys. So they sort of knew what his mantra was. And it was all about having fun, playing for your country and playing hard but fair. And that was sort of the change of feeling that he brought into the group. I mean, I remember the first thing he did is we had a heap of team values that Mickey had done up. And it all started with, I will do this, I will do that. And he just basically flicked that straight away and just said, we change the I to we. It was all about us together, not just individual. We're always obviously striving for individual success. We have individual roles in the team. But it was all about, what am I going to do? Or what are we going to do for each other? And that was a massive turning point. I think that brought the group a lot closer together.

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Tough enough for you? Subscribe to History's Toughest Heroes wherever you get your podcast. Obviously, there's been a lot of upheaval, and you're against a very good and settled England team and you found yourselves two zero down. You didn't play in the first Test at Trent Bridge, but then you came in for the second Test. The first Test was close, and then England won the second Test quite convincingly. So you're 20 down after two. But actually, over the course of the remaining three Test matches, there was clear sort of signs of improvement for the Australia team. You probably would have won at Old Trafford had it not rained. Durham was close again, and then there was a funny sort of draw at the end of the over when it was affected by the weather. You only played four test matches. You took 24 wickets. You're Australia's player of the series.

And in comes Harris again. Oh, and that's. That is out.

That is.

He nibbled at that one. There was no appeal. It was a very obvious one off the outside edge. He just pushed with his bat away from his par, Anderson. It was taken there by hadin. And so 313 for 9. And that's the fifth wicket for Harris. Harris's fifth wicket, which is terrific. And he really has, hasn't he? He's worked his heart out and he. It was a brilliant choice to bring him in for this Test match. He's someone who doesn't really survive a full five Test series. They're gonna bring him in when they think he's right. It's been perfect for him here and really he's been responsible for a really not a. A very good England batting display, both.

Personally and from a team point of view, because you're in that really unusual situation where you're going to go and play in Ashes straight away again back in Australia. Did. Did you feel that actually? Look, we've just lost three nil. And that is, you know, that is a heavy defeat. I think it's one of the heaviest defeats Australia has suffered in a long time. But were you actually taking a weird optimism and confidence back to Australia because of what you'd done in the second part of that series?

That's exactly spot on the mentality we had. Again, you look at it on paper and as you said, it's probably One of the worst results. But we thought we were way closer than that. Obviously it got close at Trent Bridge, probably closer than it probably should have. We had young Ashton Agar making those runs. Obviously we got, we got pretty well beat at Lords. But then the next three tests we felt as though we were really, really close. We, we had, you know, the game almost on toast a few times but then you know, I think at Durham we were 1 for 160 chasing 200 and maybe 60 or 250 or whatever it was. And then Broughty came on and lit it up and took you know, four or five quick week. It just was just so we had, we sort of let ourselves down. We felt in, in hours of games or sessions of games that lost us that series. And then you know, as you say we get to, we, we get to Old Trafford. We thought again, we thought we were on track there. Then the weather came but so we, what you say there, you know, like we, we were, we felt we were really close, although it was 3 nil. So when we got back on the plane, you know, we left there really hungry. The Test boys did and, and knowing that that was coming straight back, that was a great opportunity for us to you know, I guess revisit, you know, and go back over what, what had happened, the way we played. Our plans obviously would change when they come to Australia a little bit with the conditions but you know we've, we sat down and did a lot of research around it together. One thing that, that was the return of Mitchell Johnson because he came back in that one day series before everyone, everyone else flew back.

You played nine tests in a row as well, so, so, so the body must have been holding up quite well.

Oh yeah, I mean it had again, it had its challenges. The knee was swelling up a little bit at times but yeah, you look back at that and it was a great achievement, you know, to be able to do that. And I think from there on that's the other part of that which is from the Ashes we went straight to South Africa and played another three tests over there which, and we ended up winning and became number one in the, in the world. That was our sort of goal, long term goal. But yeah, I mean, well, I guess we were lucky we, with that, we, a lot of the games didn't go five days. So you know, when, when you're taking wickets and you know, doing what Mitchell does and, or did and you're able to get off your feet and have that extra day's rest, it just, it was a It was a massive help, especially, you know, for me, who my body was getting a bit sore and tired at times and. And the knee was sort of growling a bit. So having that extra time off was definitely help. And that. That allowed me, or allowed us to get through same team five tests in a row, which I don't know when the last time that's happened. It doesn't happen very often.

You talked about. I think it's quite a famous conversation, actually. I think it, you know, it's been mentioned before that Michael Clark took you fast bowlers aside and said, you know, you're the guys that are going to win this series for us. But you mentioned specifically about targeting Alistair Kirk as the England captain and someone who'd scored a lot of runs in 2010-11.

Harris bustles in, balls to him. Oh, he's caught behind. It's wide. He flashed at it and he's walked. The umpire didn't give him out.

He walked off.

And that's a big wicket. My word, poor shot. At least on this angle. It did look very well wide indeed. And he reached for. Was pushed across him and I mean, I have to say the replay possibly makes it look even worse. And Haddon took that to his left.

In front of first slip.

And it's another wicket for Harris. He's taken both so far.

The openers are gone. England lead by 10.

They're effectively 10 for 2 with Cookout for 22.

What does targeting a particular batter look like? Because naturally you want to get everyone out and you want to knock everyone over cheaply, so what's the difference?

It was just trying to stop him from not, not giving anything to score and, and, you know, being open to. And communication around, you know, what, what period of the game we're in or, or, you know, but just having really good plans to him and stop him from scoring and then, you know, making sure that we could put pressure on. So again, Pete still and I, to be able to come in and, you know, not letting score and then Mitchell will be able to come in and. And bouncy more, do whatever he had to do. And obviously that was a plan to most of the players, as you say, but we just sort of felt again from that 2010-11 how dominant he was. If we could cut that down, then again they haven't. They wouldn't have that platform and that foundation that he was so good at setting, you know, so, yeah, you're right. We had, we had differently great plans for the other players as well, but again, we Just felt as though he was a big player for them. And again, if we, if we, if we cut that off, someone else is going to have to do it under pressure in the conditions that, well, the tool before they were pretty good in. But, you know, we didn't have Mitch bowling like that, you know, in that last tour and, and we're able to, you know, build really good pressure around about, around for Alistair, but then most of their batters as well.

First test match, the cauldron of the Gabba, obviously a place that, you know really well from having, you know, your time with. With Queensland. Australia, 295 all out, having been 132 for 6 runs from, from Brad Haddon and Mitchell Johnson that would become a, a theme of the series. England had got to 82 for 2 and then were 136 all out in the first innings with the first. I don't know flash of what Mitchell Johnson was going to do. And Australia went on to win the Test match by 381 runs. England were blown away in the second innings. One that was made famous for Michael Clark's altercation. The words that he said to, to James, to James Anderson, you know, words that I can't repeat on a podcast on the BBC. But the aggression that you showed and particularly the aggression that Michael showed and maybe showing the Australian public aside to him that they hadn't seen before, what did that show to England and to the, to the supporters actually of what this team was capable of when you hadn't tasted Ash's success for quite a long time.

Yeah, I mean that was, that was probably surprised a few of the players as well. Just, you know, he wasn't, he was never really. I didn't know Michael to be sort of that he was very vocal around the team, but not necessarily towards opposition players like that. And I think Jimmy got under the skin of most players at times and you know, I think I'm just trying to think of that scenario. George Bailey must have said, I can't remember. I think he told me one day he said something, but it was more of.

So George Bailey was fielding it, he was at short leg. Jimmy. Jimmy Anderson was batting and Mitchell Johnson was, was bowling. And Michael Clark comes to step in between Bailey and Anderson because Jimmy stepped.

Away, he was about to face up and then Jimmy stepped away back to short leg and started talking to George. He got quite close to him and I think. I don't remember exactly what it was, but I think George said it wasn't as. Wasn't a Go at him. It was, it was something. Well, what he thought was he was trying to be complimentary, like, you know, you know, he's bowling fast, so make sure you protect yourself. Whatever. I don't even know what it was, but it was. I don't think it was an absolute. Just a shot of Jimmy. It just got misconstrued because what, what did happen that afternoon, I remember that quite clearly as well, is the crowd. Everyone just got on the back of what we were doing and the crowd were. It was so loud at the Gabba. It was just phenomenal because of what Mitchell had been just sort of done. So I'm not sure. Obviously, I think Jimmy misunderstood what was said and then obviously, yeah, Michael came in and again, I'm, I'm away. I'm. I'm mid off. I think I was. I might have been fine legs. I didn't know exactly what was going on, but I guess, you know, it was, it was how we, we wanted to play that way. We wanted to be aggressive, but not. I don't think there was a lot of sledging, I don't recall, and you might have to speak the English place about that. I don't think there was a lot of sledging going on. It was more. There would have been a couple of words here and there, but we didn't go in. We wanted to be aggressive, but we didn't have a plan to go in and say, right, we're going to go hard at cookie with verbal stuff or we're going to go. You know, there were players that we actually sat back and went like, KP, for instance. He wouldn't chat to him. You just don't talk to him when he bats because it switches him on and he gets into contest. So, you know, sometimes he would come in and like to talk and. But we just said, no, we're not talking. So we didn't exactly have that. It was just. We just wanted to be aggressive if anything popped up like that, which was, again, it was probably misconstrued a little bit that Michael, I think, came into whatever said what he wanted to do and then it just got caught on the mic and that was it. And again, we sort of like, you know, saw him. I think he pointed the finger from afar. That was just like, mate, just hurry up and face up. But then when we heard the words, everyone was like, oh, that's, that's cool. Showing what he could, what he's. We knew he was in, in it with us, obviously, being the captain, but that was a Little bit of a shock, but, I mean, that was just like, right, we're on here and we're going to do everything that we can, not, not try and break his arm. But, you know, we're in a fight here and, you know, we're going to back him up as well, as. Well, as much as he was backing us up.

You won that Test match. And afterwards, David Warner made some. Some comments about Jonathan Trot, and Jonathan Trot eventually left the tour, and. And David Warner actually subsequently apologized for. For what he said because Warner himself accepted that he'd probably overstepped the line because of what Jonathan Trott was going through. But the reason. The reason I raised that is because after what had happened at the Gabba, did you feel like you had England on the run already?

We felt if Mitch could do that and we bowled like that, we definitely put pressure on him. I don't think we walked away from there thinking that we were definitely on top of England. I mean, as you say, we. Batting probably wasn't up to scratch in a couple of those games. And as you know, with Hads and Mitch, who scored runs very well, helpful runs in the middle order, lower order at times, especially in that game, but we knew that if we could keep the pressure on and bowl as we did, then we thought we'd, yeah, no doubt put them under pressure. But, yeah, I know we definitely didn't walk away from knowing how they had played previously, that it could happen again, that they could come out and take time to regroup and, you know, come. Come out and bat, bat well. And. And so that was always. That was spoken about. It's, let's enjoy this and reassess and where we're at. And. But again, if. If we had. If we kept bowling like we did, then we're going to. We're going to put them under huge pressure. So, yeah, I don't think you ever walk away in a Test series like that. Even though it was convincing in the end. You never think, oh, we've got them here. We're going to walk you through the next two or three or four. You know, we never did that. We. We always, you know, we always kept each other in check to make sure that we're, you know, concentrating, not looking well, weren't looking too far ahead and making sure we knew what our role was and we executed and played our role.

But you did bowl like that again, and Mitchell Johnson did bowl like that again, and this time on. On quite a slow Adelaide pitch, he took 7 for 40 in the second Test, Australia won by 218 runs. And by this stage it's becoming obvious that Mitchell Johnson is going to become a huge factor and eventually almost a deciding factor in the series. So the thing I want to ask you is what was it like? What was it like opening the bowling with him? You know, did you talk much? Were you, were you mates? You know, you said you fielded at mid off quite a lot. What were those conversations like?

Yeah, that we were really, we were really told. We still are. I still speak to Mitch probably more than Pete, but in that, in that, in the tour of England, the back end, Mitch came to that sort of. So we sort of created, you know, started creating the Bond rule and I'd play with him earlier as well, so. And Pete Sidler played a lot with him, so we were really, really tight and as I said, we. By going back to Brisbane before that first test, after Michael spoke to us, we, we talk a lot about and spend a lot of time together. It was sort of bowlers and, and then batters that, you know, do their own thing and bowl always the way. Yeah, exactly. The quicks and, and nath line. We'd hang out a lot. So we didn't talk cricket all the time. We had, we had similar interests in cars and just different things. We had similar interests so it was easy for us to get on. But when it came to the cricket stuff, we communicated so well. You know, if I wasn't mid on, mid off to Pete or to Mitch then, although the same with me, we'd always be communicating on what our, what our, what our plan was and you know, it was just a great, it was sort of a team within a team. We did talk to the other guys a little bit but we were just so focused on, on, on, on what we had to do. But as I said before, standing at mid on mid off, you know, I was down at, I was down at midfine league a couple of times and I was bowling, I took a couple of catches that, you know, the ball came to me so fast. You know, it's, it's, you know, when you're playing stadiums like that, especially Adelaide, you know, you've got to try and pick the ball up and it was coming so fast and you know, so. But being, being next to him and watching and you know, he was just so determined and so clear on what he was doing. You know, as I said, it was, it was quite an amazing thing to watch and to see how he was getting wickets, whether it was with a short ball or short Ball in a four ball hitting the stumps. It was just working. We took some really good catches that. Corden took some really good catches in that as well. In that. In that series. It really helped. But, you know, it's. It was the old traditional set. Set him up so you bowl the short one, then pitch it up or vice versa. It was just. Whatever he did, it just worked. And then as I said, we before, we, you know, Pete and I just. We weren't trying to bowl fast, we were just trying to do what we do most best. And as I said, we picked up a few wickets for it because I know they were coming after us because they couldn't get Mitch away. So that was the sort of chat we were having. As I said, Pete and I, Pete Siddle and I just knew what we had to do in our role.

What was Mitchell like away from cricket during that series? How did he take it in his stride? Because I think I'm right in saying he's got quite a lot of interests outside of the game as well. I don't think cricket's necessarily the be all and end all to him. So how was he like, how was he in the dressing room? Did he, did he get away? Did he know he was bowling the speed of light? I mean, we had the mustache that he smiled through and he looked particularly sinister. How did all that sit with him?

I think again, you spot on when you said that. Obviously he had that big break which I think made him realize that cricket wasn't the only thing, you know, he did have. Again, he liked cars, he had a heap of different interests, he had business interests outside and, you know, I think he's trying to remember how he had a young daughter by then. I think Rubico was only quite young then, so that was.

I'm going to ask you about that in a second because I think that's important, but keep going.

You had a bit of a distraction around that. I'm pretty sure she was there then. I think, you know, she would have been only very young, but so family. And again, I think he just sort of worked out that putting everything into cricket wasn't healthy for him and, and, and any, any, you know, once he'd had that time off, spent time with family back home in Perth and, you know, again worked that out. He came back refreshed it during the series. He was just a normal bloke. He was. We're all having fun, obviously we're playing some good cricket. There was a massive hype around as it is, you know, as it is with Ash's series here and obviously in England. But he just, you know, being around him was great, being around the whole squad. Everyone was just. Everyone got on so well. But again, he wasn't. I don't know, it's hard to explain. He just wasn't all out cricket. You could just see that he worked out what it was to make him happy or the combination that he needed to make him play good cricket and be where he needed to be with his body, with his game, and then he could switch off, whereas before he probably couldn't do that.

You mentioned Mitchell's daughter. I think that's important because in 1011, he was obviously taunted by a song from the Barmy army, which he knew was coming. He balls to the left, he balls to the right. And his counter to that was to sing in his head, Let It Go from Frozen.

There you go.

Did you know that?

Probably did. I've got a very bad memory, but I don't recall that happening. But that again, he'd obviously spent time with, you know, whether it be psychologists or, or whoever it was to. To find a way to. To, To. To combat that, because he. That did hurt him, that did get to him and, and, you know, even he would. Would say. Now, I reckon that again, that was because he was so intense in it that every little thing that someone would say about him and he was quite. He's a fiery sort of. He was pretty firey as well, that he just let it get to him and then that would. That would detract from what he was trying to do on the ground to, you know, he'd be thinking about all sorts of stuff. So, yeah, that's, that's the thing. I do remember that. Quite a funny way to get over it. But then it worked and he certainly.

Did let it go. The third test, then, at the waca, you know, a ground where you'd had Ashes success previously. The Ashes is there to be won on this occasion. And what an occasion from an Australia point of view. George Bailey takes 28 off one James Anderson over England are set a notional an unfathomable 504 just to save the Test and to save the Ashes. And then from your point of view, the delivery to Alistair Cook and the first ball that Crickinfo have called the ball of the century. And when you look at replays, it almost seems to swing twice, swings into him, hits the surface, swings away from him, kisses the top of the off stump. One of the great balls.

Well, here we go.

Then the start of England's innings.

Oh, he bowed the first ball. Cooks gone. Harris is through him. England are naught for one and Australia are jubilant. Cooks 100 test matches. Match is over. And so surely are England's hopes of retaining the Ashes.

Off he goes.

England are not for one. Would you believe it? I was just thinking then, Simon, the worst possible start here would be to lose early wickets. That there swung in, straightened, just hit.

The top of off stump who is not a bad first ball to get. But just when you think it can't.

Get any worse for England, Alistair Cook goes first ball.

That looked an absolute beauty. First up from Harris. No wonder there was that celebration. It could be over before lunch.

Wonderful delivery.

First up to Cook clipping the top of off stump. What is your, your memory of that?

Yeah, that, that, that was, I mean it was a great, I mean everyone's, A lot of people have come to me and said they asked that question how do you swing the ball after it bounces? It's like that's a. Because you don't. You just, you just. All I tried to do was set the seam up and then hopefully it would swing. Sometimes it would, sometimes it wouldn't. So that was interesting. You know, just a quick story around that. I mean that, that day was an amazing day because I remember a lot of us were so nervous knowing what day that day could bring. I'm pretty sure it was that day it finished. It might have been the next morning but one of those mornings where we, I'd, I'd woken up quite early, quite. And not slept a lot that night and I never really had a lot of dramas doing that because obviously by a lot of overs. But I went down to the team room which we had at about 5:30 thinking I'll get an early coffee and there was like seven or seven or eight players down there because they were so nervous as well on, on what we're about to achieve potentially. And, but I mean going back to that ball, I think that one of the next day, we finished the next day but going to that, going back to that ball, it was interesting because I, I'd sort of, I, I was at that point when my body was hurting quite a bit, you know, and, and from. From first innings to second innings and I didn't, what I recall, I didn't really, I didn't think I took the first over very often for some reason I was, I was doing it this time and, and I remember running into Vile bowl with no, no word of a Line. I only told this story the other day that my body was that sore and halfway through or three quarters way through my run up, the voice in my head just said, stop. Because I, I was, because again, the reason why I wasn't on the first day, because the first few balls, the over, I'd float up and they'd be hit. So I'd go for 6, 8, 10, if not worse. So sort of decision. I don't even know why it was. But anyway, so three quarters by three, I was like, stop. And I didn't, I don't know why I didn't. And then that came out. It came out. It just felt good. And, and obviously, yeah, it sort of swung away and then, you know, nipped away and rest is history. But I mean, again, it was to the start, to the start of that innings. We, again, we weren't, we knew England could bat well. I think Stokes got 100 in that, in that innings as well. I think. Who else? Matt Pryor, I think, batted really well in that innings as well. And in that, in that second inning. So to be able to get, now, get Cookie out the way early, that, that was, that was just another big bonus to be able to do that because we, again, we knew what he was capable of. But, you know, I look back at it and, and, you know, I, I, it's funny, I, I'm wearing, I'm in Perth now because we've got a Sheffield Shield game tomorrow and I didn't do it this time, but I came here last year and the boys, the guys I coached, give me a bit of stick about it, but I actually went and put a ball on the spot where I thought, where I smacked around for a pitch. They enjoyed that. So it's always nice coming back to. Obviously the work is now not international venue, but it's always nice coming back to it, having that success, that ball a little bit, but it's more about. It's where we won the Ashes. And that's, that's the, that's the important thing to me.

Crickinfo called it the ball of the century. How often do you get asked about it? How often do you. It must be, must come up quite a lot.

Every year. My birthday was a few weeks ago. It comes up and there's People posted it. It's always a reminder. And now my, my kids are getting up. My kids, my little boy especially, gets any, you know, gets friends at school that see it and they, you know, they ask him about it. He has no clue. He's Not. He's not really into cricket just yet, but, you know, it's. It is, It's a nice thing. Ball of the century again, it's, it's what people want to label it. It's not for me, It's. It was my job and that's what I had to do. And again, you always want to try and bowl, you know, beautiful, nice balls like that. But again, I mean, I felt as though I bowled a few other good ones in my career as well. But, you know, obviously that one gets. Keeps getting brought up again, which is a, It's a nice sort of little reminder on. Again, on that. On that. Such an important Test match that we were playing that day.

You talked about the nerves and how important it was to win back the Ashes and you've done it. I think it was the first time in more than 1500 days that Australia could say they were the Ashes holders. What were the celebrations like?

Yeah, again, I got reminded of. I wrote a stupid tweet when I was in Perth after having a few beers about the casino, which I got reminded of only yesterday. Again, my players brought that up. But we did, we had, we did celebrate it pretty well. You know, I remember we. We ended up. Shane Warne, I think was, was. Was going to fly out back to Melbourne that night and he ended up staying and we ended up having a party in his villa, which was quite cool.

What's that like?

It was brilliant. It was unreal. We had everyone there. There was only with. With the way our tester, a lot of the girls didn't come to Perth because it's too far away. And so we had a couple of girls there, but it was just more the boys and, and then, you know, we just. The players and, and staff and we just had it. We had a great celebration. But obviously again, once we got through that, it was amazing how we enjoyed ourselves. But once we got on the plane the next day, got to Melbourne, it was like, right, how are we going to win this 5 mil? That was the thing we started thinking about. We're not going to, we're not going to give up an inch here. We're going to. We're going to do this the way we want to do it and you know, again, had a really good night. But then the focus turn pretty quickly once we hit Melbourne.

You go to Sydney 4 nil up, the chance to win 5 nil. And you personally, you save your best to the last. You take eight wickets in the match, including the last wicket that have Boyd ranking what Was that like for you personally, to put in that performance when the whitewash is on the line and to have that moment, that winning moment.

To be honest with you, I don't reckon I knew I'd taken or FIFA in that inning. I don't think I'd sort of. Because that was it. We sort of. That was quite interesting. I think England had probably checked out. I think we won in two and a bit days, was it, or.

Yeah, it was very quick and lots of debutantes in that game and all sorts of. Lots of upheaval.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So I guess for me it was. Yeah. Just trying to think back. It was a while ago, obviously, but I. It was more about what we just achieved. It wasn't even. I think it probably wasn't until actually after, when I got presented with the man of the match, that I actually realized I'd taken five. So in the innings, I think it was. So again, it was just all about what. What we. What we just achieved as a team was. Was amazing. And. And then, you know, how are we going to celebrate? That was the best thing. And, you know. But again, again, I think, you know, as you said, England had changed their team quite a lot by then. There was a little bit of a people, as you say, which seems to be. When teams come to Australia sometimes, especially the Ashes, it's been, you know, happens a couple of times and. And vice versa when we go there, we've, you know, players retire or coaches, you know, in their tenure, but. Oh, look. Yeah, I remember it just being a great time. We had all our families in the round there as well. Which was great. Was it? Obviously, because it was a New Year's Test that, you know, that we have the families around too. So I just remember being a great family time. And then we had time with the team just to soak all up and really enjoy each other's company and sort of look back and, you know, what we just achieved.

You sang the team song on the pitch straight away. That doesn't happen very often.

That flashed up on Tell the other day. I totally forgot about that. That was really unusual. I don't know. I think Lionel, who leads it? We just wanted to take in again because it was pretty busy. The crowd was unreal, it was loud and I think it was just. Let's just take it in here. And because we never did that the whole time there. It was all about doing it later. But it was a good little touch. It was just. Again, it was a unique thing of what we Just achieved.

We talked about how you had got through those nine consecutive Ashes tests and went on to play in South Africa where Australia won. And you. You played a crucial role in that. I think. I think you. You're struggling to walk but still able to bowl. And then you went off and had had more knee surgery and, you know, you only played a handful more Test matches after that South Africa series. You wanted to play in the. In the 2015 Ashes, but, you know, as we've touched about. Your knee broke down again. You had the cracked. The cracked tibia. How did that. How did that feel, knowing that you weren't going to have another. Another crack at England?

Yeah, I mean, it was shattering at the time. It all happened really quickly. I mean, that after that, South African. The reason I kept pushing through that is, you know, I was definitely. We're all in pain. I think that was probably the hardest Test match that I'd ever played. And a few have said the same thing. We fielded for 160 overs because, you know, South Africa was so good at defending, but we got through that. And I knew at the end of that, the reason I kept going didn't. I knew at the end of that I was having surgery on my knee, so it was all going to be cleaned out and fixed and everything going to be scraped away. So I pushed. We pushed through. We're all. We're all sore, no doubt about that. But, you know, we're lucky we got the result then because that would have felt like a loss or that would have been a draw. So. So we're lucky to get through things. As I said, that was. That sort of put us in number one spot in the world. But, you know, I think I only played maybe three or four more tests. I think it was against India. I believe that was. That was the last series I played. And, yeah, I mean, as I said, I missed the West Indies because of the birth of our first child. And for me, it was. It was probably, if I can get to England and get through and play well, that that might have been a good time to. To retire. That was sort of in the back of my mind. But then I thought, well, if you go well and you feel like you're going good, then maybe it might be better to retire at home. And I think it was New Zealand. I think that the tour. After or so, I was definitely starting to think more about it. I probably saw myself trying to play a bit more state cricket, if not, well, if I was good enough to play franchise cricket. But, yeah, I mean, As I said, the shape I was in, I, I thought I could. I could definitely, you know, again, play some sort of cricket, but it was probably, you know, I knew the other thing about that is we had. We had some good guys coming through as well. We had Paddy Cummins and, you know, Starks or Stark is playing.

I'm gonna ask you, do you know who replaced you in the squad when you pulled out of the 2015 tour?

He's never thanked me for that either. But, yeah, that was Patty. I remember that. That was South Africa, wasn't it? So firstly it was South Africa. I came home from the South African tour a couple years before that and then he replaced me then in that tour. Yeah, you're right.

Yeah. So a bit of a passing of the torch almost to some. To some younger guys.

Yeah, I mean, it probably. It was. I just knew I was Again, my knee was. It was. It was getting. Getting closer. I just knew that I could, you know, with, with the surgery that was having done to it. The, actually the actual surgery I had after South Africa is the reason why it went because it allowed my. Needed to be a bit more freely and move freely and it actually opened. It got me back straight in my leg, which was then putting pressure on the damage area, which wasn't happening because I couldn't bend my legs. I straightened my legs. So the surgery was great because it relieved a lot of pain, a lot of stuff, but then it actually, you.

Know, no good for fast bowling.

Yeah, it contributed to, you know, putting my knee back into a normal place and then damaging it. So, yeah, look, definitely disappointed. I, I remember it was such a hard decision. Like, you know, I had a surgeon that had done all the work on, you know, for a number of years, tried a couple of different techniques and got me going. He knew the importance of trying to get as much out of me as possible. So when, when, when it happened, I just remember sitting down or going back to the hotel. Shattered. Obviously. When I got the results, I sort of knew and then I rang. We rang the surgeon and he said, look, I've. I've done. We've done as as much as we can. I can fix it again, but it's just going to go again because you've got no protection on it. And so once when he said that, because he, I, I know that he would. Well, I did know that he would do everything he could to get me out there, but when he said that, that was like, that's it, I'm done. I can't do it. I I just. And that was when, yeah, I was blubbering mess. I was, you know, I left that. Left the ground and went back to the hotel. And then, you know, that night, everyone came. Bayram was great. Everyone came down and got around me. But I just remember sitting down with Mitch and Pete and I said to him, I reckon I can do it again. I just reckon I can do it. And they said, you spoke in the surgeon. He's obviously told you probably not. And then they said to me, which really got me. I used to have to take quite a number of, you know, voltarens or paneling forts. And I remember Mitch saying that, mate, I've seen what you have to take to bowl and play. You can't keep doing that because it's going to rip your stomach apart. You're going to have, you know, longer term issues. And. And I was at that point where every time I bowled, I was in a lot of pain, but I did it because I wanted to. And I remember him saying that and I was like. And Pete was the same. Pete Siddle said, that's not great to, you know, to be. To be going through that. And so I had a bit more to think about. I spoke to my wife and my brother and my dad and that just. I know I had no other opportunity, another option. I. I had to pull a pin. And. And reluctant, as reluctant as I was, I still, you know, I still. I look back at it and I played 27 Tests more than I thought I was going to play. I wish I had been 50 or 70, but as I said at the beginning of the conversation, I never, ever thought if I was ever going to play for Australia, it probably wasn't going to be in Red Bull cricket. And I did it 27 times. So, yeah, it was. It was a decision again. It was. It was. I actually went back to the surgeon again and I just said, you're 100, sure. And he said, look, we can try and have a go at it, but it's going to be long. And, yeah, basically said it. That was it. So once I got that sort of confirmation, it was. That was it.

I think there's a bit of symmetry there, isn't there, that actually that, you know, it was a conversation with the two guys that you'd achieved your career high with. That took the honesty of those two guys, Peter Siddal and Mitchell Johnson, for you to go and really reflect on the decision you were making.

Yeah. And that's. That's how we were, that's how close we were. And we cared deeply for each other, and they, they saw what, you know, I mean, I'm not. It's not about, you know, we're every bowl of sore, and there's no doubt about that, but they saw, you know, the stuff being taken out of my knee and how painful that was. And, you know, they'd see the scans at times that the physio would pull out and, you know, they just see things that. They knew I was in pain and how much, you know, it was sometimes a struggle to get up. But I always, as I said I wanted to do it because I love what I did. And, you know, I talked. I've spoken to a lot of people about it who questioned me. How did you keep doing it? How did you get injured and then come back? Well, I did it because I wanted to. And that's what we do as athletes. You know, you do. You go through the hard yards and make those tough decisions and spend hours rehabbing and hours in the gym because you want to get back to do something that you love so much. And I think I did a talk a couple of weeks ago and, and spoke about a similar thing. And, and the reason why did. I said, you know, I've held. I've bowled the first ball in a Boxing Day test, you know, for instance, in an Ashes series. Like I said, I think I said to him, go and find something that's better than that. You know, like, it's, It's, It's a. It's. It's something that you dream of doing. You have every opportunity to do it. You try and do everything you can to do it. And I did, and I gave. I got everything out of my body that I could. And then it just, yeah, as I said it, that what happened that day in Kent could have happened four years before, and I wouldn't had half the opportunity or more than half the opportunity to do it. So I loved every minute of it. Of course, we wanted to do it for longer, but, you know, it is what it is, and I had a great career.

Just as a final thought, you played 27 Tests and took 113 wickets. Of those 27, 12 of them were Ashes Tests. And of your 113 wickets, 57 of them were Ashes wickets. So more than half of your Test wickets were in Ashes Tests. Of bowlers who have taken 50 Ashes wickets, your average is 20.63 since the year 1900. Only Jim Laker and Rodney Hogg have a better Ashes average. And in the same time period, only Mitchell Johnson, Funnily enough, has a better strike rate than yours of 43.3. So you said, you know, you wished you'd played more, but what you achieved in that time and what you achieved in Ash's cricket, I mean, you wouldn't swap that for a longer Test career, would you?

No, not at all. Oh, well, not, not, not. No, not. Not really. I mean, when you talk about, yes, I'd love to have played more tests, no doubt, but again, when you say that it always thought when I was, I was. I timed it right, that when I. When I wasn't injured, it was Nash's series and I did, I played it, what, two and a half series, one away or half of one at home? You know, away and then home again. It. Again, the dream was watching Ashes cricket, to play it as a kid. And, and you're right, I wouldn't. I mean, that, that when you go through. I don't look at stats and records like that. But, yeah, when you look at that, it was. As I said, I had a great career. I, I loved every minute of. And, yeah, would love to have played 70, but. Or 50, but again, what I did, as I said, I got the most out of what I could, what I did. And, and, and had a bit of an impact as well along the way, which is, again, reason why you do it. You do it with your team. And we did that. We had a great time through that period. Tough time in 2010, tough time in 2013, but we're able to rectify it. And, and I guess that's the only disappointing thing is that going back to 2015, that was the tour that we thought we were going to hopefully win it, but it didn't happen. In comes Harris and he bowls and that's chipped back at him and caught and bowled a really tame end to Bresnan's innings. It's been a fine innings of 45.

But Harris takes his seventh wicket and Preston walks off swinging his bat in disgust. It's his Test best. Well bowled, Harris. He's been really after England today.

He's harried them. He's bowled fast.

That was from the Ashes. You can read more about Ryan Harris's role in the 2013-14 series on the BBC Sport website. An app. Previous episodes of from the Ashes have featured Stuart Broad and Michael Vaughan, and you can find those on BBC Sounds. Make sure you're subscribed to the Test Match Special podcast so you get a notification every time we upload. We'll be bringing you daily podcasts from Australia during the Ashes this winter. That's it for now. We'll speak to you next time.

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