Harry Brook reflects on the last year

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You're listening to the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

Harry, thanks for your time. One of the things you've always said to me every time we've spoken, and I remember speaking to you just before your Test debut, is how much of a dream it has been for you to play for England and to be an England cricketer, or even just be a cricketer. So can you remember when that dream started? When did the idea of being a cricketer first pop into your head?

Well, what age did you start talking?

Then, was it? Really?

My dad always said as soon as I could talk, I was always saying that I wanted to play cricket for England and play for Yorkshire. And yeah, that obviously grew the older I got. It's just fun playing cricket for England, playing for Yorkshire, and living your childhood dream.

Burleigh and Wharfedale, right?

Yeah.

Still get down?

Yes, I was down there yesterday actually having a net.

To net, not just to get down on a Saturday, have you still got mates there?

Yeah, I've got quite a few mates there. Yeah, I get down there a lot. I had my dad's 50th there last week as well, so yeah, it's very much a family club and the Brooks have always been there and my grandma used to live on the field, so we've always been there and thereabouts no matter what.

Sedber School as well, 6:20 AM nets, is that about right that it used to be every morning?

Get there about 6:20, wake up at about 6, have a quick shower and get down There was a long drive from our house. I'd go to the nets with another mate of mine from school, and there was a long drive in the dark, cold, gloomy mornings, and we'd walk down that drive with our cricket bags to the nets and yeah, get in the indoor nets with Spatie.

Who put a bet on you to play for England when you were a kid?

That was my granddad. Granddad and Grandma, sadly not with us now, but yeah, they put I don't know the details, I don't know the age, I don't know the amount of money, but yeah, they put a bet on me to play for England and Yorkshire.

The reason I sort of bring up how much you wanted to be a cricketer and how much you wanted to play for Yorkshire and how much you wanted to play for England is because there's certain things that maybe some people don't know that you have done in order to achieve that dream. So fitness, that was quite a big thing, wasn't it, when you were a teenager that you had to put a bit of work into?

Yeah, I got on the academy when I was about 14 or 15. I'd recently just gone to Sedbergh School, one of the academy coaches actually said to me, look, don't even bother doing any cricket for the next few months. I just want you to work on your fitness. So I'd be up and down the fells in Sedbergh at lunchtime. I'd be in the gyms in the mornings. And at posh schools like Sedbergh, there's a thing called games every afternoon. So I'd be either running or in the gym again. And that's kind of where it Since it started, I've had a few little blips here and there with my fitness, but thankfully I'm back on the right track and I've worked extremely hard on it.

What's the Wilson Run?

It's a horrendous, horrendous run, which is very hard. I actually did it one year in dry weather and then I did it the next year in wet weather and it's just bleak, but it's good. And they're the type of things that you get from a school like Sedgwick.

It's a rite of passage, right? Like over the fells, is that right?

Fells, fell running. It's a big fell running school, but yeah, you need quite a lot of character to try and finish that run and do it in a decent time. I can't remember my time, but yeah, especially when it's raining. Little things like that you get at schools like Sedbergh. You do build that character and that competitiveness to want to win at anything that you're doing.

Did you do it with a broken arm once?

Sorry, yeah, with a broken hand one year. Yeah, so I had a pot on, which wasn't easy when you're wading through mud and rivers to try and get back to the finish line.

You got hurt playing cricket, is that right?

And you went back to school? Yeah, I broke my hand. I can't even remember how I did it, but yeah, I broke my hand and went back to school with a little pot on. It wasn't too bad.

And those things that you've done in order to be an England cricketer and to be the player that you are today, I think carried on after You became a pro and even after you first made your England debut. So I'm thinking about the India series that you missed in 2024. I think you spent that time away from the game really working on your fitness and working on your fielding. Obviously we know that you opted out of the IPL when you became white ball captain. So there's a lot of things that you've done to help you become the best cricketer that you can be.

Yeah, massively. Obviously the India series came at a horrendous— came for a horrendous horrendous reason, and I thought it was the right decision for me to go back and spend the last couple of months with my grandma until she passed away, which was a horrible time. But I felt that that opportunity was a really good opportunity to try and nail down some areas that I thought I needed to improve on, which was my fitness, because I'd kind of slipped on the wrong path with that. I wasn't as good an athlete as I could have been, and I recognized that. I brought that upon myself to go on meal plans, to to gym and run, get schedules from the S&C and just try and follow them things and be really strict with that to make myself the best cricketer that I could have been. I came back and I felt like I was seeing the ball a hell of a lot easier. Everything felt slower in terms of pace of delivery and surfaces, and I feel like it just helped my game a lot more and helped me in T20 cricket, helped me in Test cricket to be able to bat for longer periods of time. Helped me run 2s better, and it made a massive difference to my fielding as well. And I just think there is a vital area of my career so far that I've improved on, and it's made a massive difference.

The IPL as well, no regrets there?

No, not really, because I've dedicated my whole life to English cricket in the last couple of years, and all I want to do is play cricket for England in all 3 formats and be the best player that I can possibly be for that team. Whether it's T20 side, ODI side, or Test side, me as a player, I just want to try and impact games as much as I possibly can and try and put the team in as good a position to win games of cricket as often as I possibly can.

What about the other bits that go with being an England cricketer? The bits that maybe you don't dream about? So, I don't know, talking to me, for example, or, you know, doing the media, or Everything else that goes with being a cricketer. Is that okay? Do you like those bits?

As I said, people are entitled to their own opinions about people's performances. That's what social media platforms are for, aren't they? I don't personally go out of my way to look for them. I trust the people that I've got around me to use their opinions and dig into their brains, their their way of thinking about cricket. And I've got the best ever Test cricketer to have ever played the game sat next to me in the changing room. What— it would be stupid of me not to talk to him about the game and learn things from him. As well as the batting coach, obviously doing the head coaching role this next couple of months. Baz, I used him a lot. It's— yeah, I got into a little bit of a rabbit hole with all the scrutiny and the social media when I was in the IPL, and I just didn't feel like it helped me as a person on the field and off the field. So I decided to try and just not stay away from social media, but just not go out of my way to look at it. And on the other hand, I feel like it's actually a little bit of a compliment that people are giving me scrutiny and have their opinion about my game because It means that people care and I've almost earned that scrutiny. I know it's not a nice thing to see people slagging you off, but it means that people care. It means that people think that I can put in a better performance than I have done that day. And I remember as a kid going to watch Baz at Headingley play for— I can't remember, I think it was Warwickshire or someone— and Matthew Fisher got him out in the first over. And I was absolutely devastated. I'd only gone to watch him, and after he got out, I was like, Dad, can we just go home? So I can kind of understand it as a fan of cricket. And look, I'm just trying to be as good a player as I possibly can be for the side and try and win as many games as I possibly can to make the England cricket team the best team in the world.

When you say you got into a rabbit hole, that IPL season, was it 2023?

When I played out there, yes.

Yeah, were you sort of more active on social media then?

I would have, I would have been on it a lot more. I was scrolling and you know what it's like if you come across your name, it's easy to just click on the comments and have a quick look, but there's little things like that and little comments that I don't think help you as a player, and I had advice from a few players at Yorkshire when I first came through to try and stay away from that stuff. And I'm not saying that it's— you don't take advice on, because you always need advice. Nobody's ever the finished article, and you always need opinions on where you can get better as a player. And I just feel like I've got a little group and a little bubble of people that I can trust in Martin Speight, Rooty, players around. And I grew up with exceptional players at Yorkshire as well. Rooty, Gary Ballance, Johnny Burstow, Adam Lyth, and having conversations throughout your career, career, and still using them people now. They're the type of people that I want to learn from and let them help me.

When you say you got into a rabbit hole then, and we're talking more than 3 years ago now, it feels like whatever you were going through then, you've probably been under more scrutiny since Since the winter. Have you felt that or not really?

I haven't, if I'm being brutally honest. I don't look.

And is that because of what you learned there?

Yeah, so I've taken that on board. I don't want to find myself in that position because it's harder to enjoy the game of cricket when you're looking at all that scrutiny and reading it all and you take out more pressure onto the field than than that's necessary, really.

Sounds actually like that'd be quite a good skill then that you've learned, because so many people wouldn't be able to pick up their phone. And I know, you know, there'll be times when you will be on your phone and you will see things, and you'll see comments on social media, you might see things that people have written. But if you've, I don't know, managed to put in a bit of a filter because of something that you went through before, that sounds quite beneficial.

Yeah, and It's never going to be possible to get away from it all. And again, some things might be good. Like, somebody might say something and you think, actually, yeah, I'll try that. And it might work. So it's not necessarily— you're never going to be able to get away from it all. But I just feel like for myself, for my game, I like the bubble that I've got and I trust them people.

In terms of then, I don't know, blocking out some of the stuff that goes on externally and what other people say, for everything that went on in the winter on and off the field, there would have been, I don't know, your own feelings of, I don't know, disappointment. Could have gone differently, could have scored more runs, could have acted differently. How have you dealt with that personally?

I think you can always score more runs. I came off getting a triple hundred against Pakistan, I was like, I could have got more More runs there. You can never get enough runs. And yeah, we went out to the Ashes with high hopes of winning it, obviously didn't come back. We went out to T20— we didn't come back with the Ashes. We obviously went out to T20 World Cup after that and didn't come with high hopes of winning it again and didn't come back with the trophy. But there's a hell of a lot of positives that we can take from them 2 periods of our careers as well. And reshape ourselves moving forward. I think that the white ball side is trending in, in a very good direction. To beat a side like India in both of them series there is a hell of an achievement, and we can't take that for light— for granted.

You'll know that people talk about things on the field and things that happen off the field as well. Let's talk about on the field and your batting and your approach to batting. And I don't mean to I don't know, demean this in any way, but are you aware that when you bat, you can do things that other people can't and you can play shots that other people can't? And maybe you make it look easier. You maybe you might make batting look easier than than some other people do. And so therefore, maybe that brings its own pressure and its own criticism when you might play a certain shot or get out in a certain way. Shocking shots, you called them in Australia, didn't you? Yeah.

Yeah, and that's something that I've really been trying to work on, is trying to assess conditions quicker and trying to read the surface better, to almost go out there knowing what shots are going to be hard on that surface, what shots are going to be easier, so I can use them shots throughout that innings and give me a higher chance of scoring runs. I practice every single shot. I have done since I was at the age of 8. I remember in the nets at Burleigh, we'd try to do a 360 challenge with my dad. He'd just be throwing balls at me. I'd have to try and hit it into that corner, then that corner, and just try and use different parts of the ground. And I have the ability to hit it everywhere, and I've just got to try and figure out, and figure out quicker in games. And it might be when I walk out to bat, realizing on that surface On that day, what is the best shots and what is the best shot to, to give myself the, the best opportunity of scoring runs in that game. The TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

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Do you get it though when— because obviously when you get out, it's out in the scorebook and it doesn't matter if you get caught at first slip or you get caught at cow corner, out. Out is out. Do you get why, because of how talented you are and the amount of runs that you score and your record and all those things, that maybe you draw more frustration from supporters when you get out playing a shocking shot, in your words?

Oh, if supporters get frustrated, then imagine how frustrated I get.

Is that really?

Yeah, of course. It's a frustrating game, isn't it? And one day you could be blitzing it everywhere, be 30 off 10 balls, and then just get out and it It's annoying, but that comes back to what I'm trying to say. It's trying to figure out that in-game, the little nuances that make a massive difference in giving you the opportunity of scoring them runs on that day. And yeah, I've just got to do that slightly better.

You're averaging more than 50 in Test cricket. I don't think anyone who scored more than 3,000 runs in Test cricket has a better strike rate than you, but Ben Stokes pulled you to one side in Sydney and said you could average 60, 70. What do you— what does it feel like when he, when he says that?

It's not as easy as that, otherwise everybody would be doing it. I want to be, I want to be a match winner. I want to be— whether that's 30 off 10 balls or 200 off 500 balls, I just want to, I just want to win matches and I never understand why there isn't a match-winning column in your stats. I just think that's all that matters really. All I want to do is try and have a match-winning influence on the game.

I guess the point is though that obviously it's not as easy as just saying you could average 60 or 70, but only a few people could and you might be one of them. Is that the point he's trying to make, do you think?

Yeah, maybe. Look, I'm definitely not the finished article. I don't think I ever will be. I don't think anybody ever is. But yeah, there's— and it all comes back to what I'm saying about reading the surface, I think. And that's where I've got it slightly wrong. There's millions of examples. The one in Perth, for example, trying to drive on the up off Scotty Boland in the second innings, it's just not the shot. Like, it's just not the shot at all. So on that surface, it's just areas that I need to improve. read the surface better and play accordingly to that surface.

We've spoken before and I've said to you, do you think there's, I don't know, a perception around you from fans or from the media that's unfair? And you said to me, do you know what, I've got absolutely no idea. I don't know how I'm perceived by people. One thing I always think about is you're very authentic. You'll say what you think and you'll do what you want to do and you stay very true to yourself. And that might be doing a handstand when you Is that how you feel, that, you know, you're still playing the game for fun and you're being true to yourself and you're being authentic to yourself, and if people don't like that, so be it?

I would say that I'm an extremely honest person. I'm honest with myself, I'm honest with my game, and yeah, I just, I love playing cricket. I love playing, I love walking out there hearing the Barmy Army singing Jerusalem as we're about to bowl the first ball and Or the crowd chanting your name when you've hit a 4 or you've got 50 or 100. It's just little things like that when the atmosphere is amazing, you feel like you're on top of the game. There's all sorts of little bits of playing for England and just playing professional cricket in general that are just amazing.

Can honestly get you into trouble though. One time I think when you'd first started being the one-day captain or you were standing in for Jos, I think there's a comment where you got asked about batters getting caught on the boundary and you said, who cares? And you being honest, can it get you into trouble?

Yeah, I think so, but a lot of people say honesty is the best policy, so yeah, I probably have got in trouble a couple of times being a little bit too honest. That example, yeah, I was trying to— for me as captain, that's I was trying to bring a fearless nature to our batting attack, our batting order, and giving them a license to go out there and try and play in whatever manner they felt like they wanted to, to try and put us in a position to win the game. So that's where I was trying to go with that comment, for example. And that was all I was saying there, was to try and give our batters freedom and make them go out there to be able to perform at their best ability.

What about the off-field stuff? I know you and I have spoken about Wellington before, and, you know, this is not the time to get in like deep into that because we've had that conversation. But, you know, months on, what was the impact of that on you and, and how did you deal with that? Because for other people, they might have been able to go away and think about it and not be in the public eye, but straight away you were captain in England and Sri Lanka going into a T20 World Cup, speaking to the media over and over. Yeah, I mean, Now we're months on, how has it affected you, if at all? But you know, you're only human and these things can leave a, you know, a long impression on people.

Yeah, it was, it was a tough period, especially when I was at home getting ready for the media before we went out to Sri Lanka.

Is that in the gap between Australia?

Yeah, but yeah, that was, that was a tough period. That was probably the hardest period, but I actually feel like the character that I've shown throughout that period to go out there and still perform and lead the side fairly well, to go out to Sri Lanka and win that One Day Series, which hadn't been done for 4 years in Sri Lanka by any side. I was quite proud of myself in that regard, and I was very proud of the side in that regard. I Looking at it now, I feel like it's shaped me as a player, as a person, knowing how big a responsibility it is to be the white ball captain, especially in and in England with with such a high percentage of people enjoying and watching cricket and keeping a close eye on it. So I think it's it's I don't want to say it's helped me, but it's it's made me realise how how big it is to be England captain. And it's not just the leadership on the field, it makes a massive difference off the field if you can lead well and lead with responsibility as well.

You talk about character, did you know you had that in you?

Yeah, I think I've always been a person to back myself and have the belief, and I think any top-class athlete in the world has that ability to back yourself even when When everything's going bad, to be honest. I think you just have to have that belief to be able to get where you want to go.

Do you think there is a parallel universe where if some of those things hadn't happened, you would be sitting here as Test captain?

I don't know. I honestly don't know. I don't really look at it like that. I think the decision to make Rooty captain was the right one. I'm actually really excited to see what he can do. I think he's definitely the right man to take over that job. He's got a hell of a lot of experience in that department to have captained the side. I don't know the numbers, but nearly 70 times, most ever Test victories as captain, and the wealth of experience that he's had throughout his captaincy reigns already, and watching the way that Stokesy and Baz went about it the last 4 years. I think he's definitely the right man for the job, and, and I'm really looking forward to working alongside him and being along his side.

You were really honest about how honoured you would have been if you had got the call, and just now you've spoken about what happened over the winter made you realise what a big deal it is to be an England captain and a leader. There's a good chance that one day you will become Test captain, so again, is that in the back of your mind and all these experiences that you've gone through, you know that's a good thing to do and that's a not so good thing to do.

Yeah, and they're little things that you do learn throughout your career. Obviously it was on quite a high scale, but yeah, having that responsibility now has made a massive difference for me and my leadership. I think there is a potential that I could be captain, but at this moment in time, all I'm focusing on is trying to win a few games of cricket, and that starts again for England in the Test match on Wednesday. And I will be 1,000% behind Rooty throughout this series and moving forward, and I'm really looking forward to what this Test side can do.

Last couple, you don't get a rest from playing for England. I was trying to work out when the last England game took place that you didn't play in. I think it was probably Ireland at the end of last summer when there was a squad that went there that Jacob Bethell was captain of. So that's a pretty relentless schedule. First, how do you keep fresh? And secondly, what do you want to achieve? And you've just spoken about, you talked earlier on about, you know, the match-winning column that there could be in someone's stats. So what do you want this team to achieve? Because your white-ball captaincy So, I don't know, there's a World Cup on the horizon next summer, there's a home Ashes series, and you'll be aware that your Ashes record probably isn't as good as it could be. What do you look at into the future and think, that's for me, that's what I want?

Any big tournament, any big series.

Is it that simple?

Yeah, as simple as that. And I just want to try and have an impact on every game possible. Obviously that is impossible to have an impact on every game, but whether that's with bat or in the field or even potentially with the ball at some point.

It's coming on, isn't it?

Yeah, I just want to try and have an impact, and like I said before, that could be 10 off 2 balls or 3 balls in a T20, or it could be 100 off 400 balls in a Test match. It's just, yeah, I just want to be a match winner, and that's all I can say about it really. I want to win as many games as I possibly can for England and and give the fans and the supporters the memories that they deserve because they are a phenomenal group that follow us all around the world and we're extremely blessed to have them.

So that kid in nappies, right, who spoke about, you know, when he could first talk, he just wanted to be a cricketer and going to Burleigh and Sedbergh School and Yorkshire and England and all those things and everything that's happened in between and even some of the bad stuff like Wellington. Is it still the dream?

Definitely.

Yeah.

Well, what's not to be happy about? I'm an extremely upbeat person. I'm always happy. Even when things are bad, I just think there's no point dwelling on things. You've got to be happy. And that's been throughout my family growing up as well. My mum's an extremely happy person. My dad's an extremely happy person. And I just think life's too short to not be happy. And I'm in a very privileged position to be able to say that I'm doing something that I extremely love. As a job, and I refuse to call it a job, but I'm doing something that I extremely love for work, which is just a dream come true. And every time I step over that white line, whether it be for England, Sunrisers in the Hundred, or Yorkshire, it's always a phenomenal feeling to be able to go out there and say that this is my life.

Thanks so much for your time.

Thank you. The TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.