Have England picked the right players for Pakistan?

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You're listening to the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Hello, I'm Henry Moran. Welcome to the Test Match Special Podcast. England's men return to Test match cricket action on the 19th of August, taking on Pakistan at Headingley in the first of 3 matches. In this episode of the TMS Podcast, we'll be getting lots of opinions from the BBC Cricket Team about the squad that's been selected. To come, Daniel Norcross has been behind the scenes with our BBC Team at The Hundred to hear their thoughts on the 16 names that England have called up. In case you missed them, the top lines from the squad: Dan Lawrence is recalled, we expect him to bat at 6. Jordan Cox looks like coming in at 3, and Ollie Pope is back but likely to be just the spare batter. There's no Rayan Ahmed or any out-and-out all-rounder. We expect perhaps Dan Lawrence will fulfill some of those overs vacated by the now-retired Ben Stokes with his part-time offspin. Emilio Gay picked up a shoulder injury but should be fit to open. Jacob Bethell, meanwhile, misses at least the first 2 Test matches with a knee problem. I've been speaking with the national selector, Marcus North.

Yeah, look, I think that this presents a great opportunity for look at different ways to structure our side. I must say that, you know, Sam Curran is a player of real value for us and interest in terms of that role. He's had a heavy summer and workload and he's been playing at the highest level with a number of niggles and we don't feel he's quite right at the moment for this Test spot, but he's certainly someone that we're we're going to be working around over the coming weeks. But in terms of the squad balance that we've picked here is, you know, we've got Lawrence at 6, like I said, Smith moves down to 7 and gives us an opportunity now to play the 4 pace bowlers. Or if we come across a spinning track and we've got Bashir, you know, we feel is our number 1 spinner in the country at the moment, you know, that means that we have to shift and look at either playing 3 pace bowlers and Bash or We move Smith up to 6 and change the balance there. So yeah, look, without Ben Stokes, it presents opportunity to see what different structures we can play with.

Rayan Ahmed, not in the squads. What did he do wrong?

Oh, look, Rayan has done nothing wrong. You know, he's been— he's someone of real value for us and we highly regard. He's been in all 3 format squads. At this stage, we felt that going in with what we see as our best 6 batters, with Smudge at 7, is key. That's why Lawrence has got the nod at 6. Bashir is our spear in the squad, so it's an opportunity for Rehan to go back and to dominate with Leicester and continue his good season on. So no, the future is still very bright for Rehan.

No Sonny Baker, no James Roo as well, so they miss out.

Yeah, look, and I think that is a reflection of we've got a fantastic group of bowlers now. Sonny Baker is someone that's continuing to perform very well at every opportunity at whatever level or team he's playing for. You know, obviously, Brydon Cass is someone that comes back now who's fully fit and he's been a regular player around the Test squad for a couple of years now. So he obviously squeezes out Sonny in terms of that role. And then we've got the inclusion of the likes of Cook, who we feel again gives us a slightly different opportunity to play that kind of skillful bowler with Ollie Robinson in the squad as well. And we saw how well he performed at Lord's. And Cook and Fisher kind of probably group themselves together that complement the raw pace and ability of the guys bowling up to 90 miles an hour. We feel that combination is something that we want to look at. More closely, certainly in English conditions.

Were any other all-rounders considered? Overton perhaps?

Oh, look, there was a discussion of a number of different other players, but ultimately we've come to the conclusion this is the best squad for us to win the Test matches against Pakistan. This is our most important series, is the one that's starting against Pakistan. Obviously the results didn't go away against New Zealand, but you know, this is a very important series for us. To play well. We get to understand a bit about the players that we're giving some opportunities to, and hopefully by the end of the series we're putting some good performances on and we're finding out a bit more and seeing some success come from these guys getting an opportunity.

Who was responsible for selection? Anything from Stephen Fleming?

Well, look, Stephen Fleming was involved in a lot of discussions. I think that was really important, certainly from my perspective. As soon as he got appointed, I reached out and we had long conversations. You know, it makes sense that, you know, Steven's taking over the side, albeit that Marcus Vescović is the interim coach for this series, that it was important that, you know, our selection reflects, you know, the strategy and thinking of long-term moving into the winter when Steven takes over the team. So I think it was really prudent that he was involved in that. And obviously his contribution was great value.

What about the spectre of Ben Stokes. There's all this conversation that, you know, might he one day return? Do you still harbour hopes that he could one day be part of an England side?

I guess there has been a bit of discussion around that. My job as national selector is to pick sides with the coach and captain and of players that are available for selection. And Ben made the decision to retire, and it's great to see him playing well and enjoying his cricket at Durham. But until he reverses that decision, does become available for selection, you know, my job is to look at the players that are and make sure that we become a strong, competitive England cricket team and work our way up those Test world rankings is really important.

Would you like him to make himself available?

I think that's one for Ben Sadler, not for me. Okay.

And just finally, are you enjoying this? Have you been encouraged by what you've seen in terms of squad depth and potential?

Yeah, look, there's a tremendous amount of potential. I think I might have said that when I got the role. Having the privilege and opportunity to work in cricket over here for the last 8 or so years with Durham and now to take this very privileged role as national selector is something that I'm thoroughly enjoying and excited about. You know, just this Test squad alone is the opportunity of some of these younger players. We've still got Emilio Gay in terms of playing his second Test series. So we've still got some players that we're looking forward to seeing how they establish themselves at this level. And like I said, the excitement around the depth of our bowling at the moment is incredible. You know, we've got some great talent there. So the future is optimistic, but ultimately we've got to make sure that we get the structure and we're playing some very disciplined cricket. And at the end of the day, it's a results business and we want to start winning Test matches and And that'll be something that I think we'll be proud of, that our supporters will be proud of once we start winning.

That was Marcus North. So Dan Lawrence is recalled, and I got reaction from a former teammate of his, David Millan.

Yeah, I'm actually pleased he has got a chance because it's not easy when you're a player that comes in and you're sort of someone that's seen, that's been able to bat anywhere from, I would say, 3 until 7. He's had to bowl quite a lot as well at times. And then even in his last test where he got that opportunity open in the batting, which obviously didn't go to plan for him, but in the whole, I quite like the fact that players are able to go away to county cricket and actually earn the right to come back. He's gone and proved a point by scoring 500s in this year's county championship, and weight of runs at the right time is handy. I mean, this will be his third opportunity of going at the test, and you feel like this will probably be third and last. As it will be for potentially a lot of players in this group when you have a new coach, new captain, and potential new captain in 2 years' time if Joe Root decides after the Ashes that he's had enough of that as well. So yeah, well, I'm pleased that he's got a chance, and I hope that he gets the opportunity to actually show what he can do. He bats— he's probably gonna bat at 6 or 7, um, and he has the game to be able to bat with the tail as well, which I think is very important.

Is he somebody who with the move from Essex to Surrey has benefited from different surroundings and actually becoming maybe a little bit of a different cricketer?

Yeah, well, I think sometimes when you're at the same county for long periods of time, you get really comfortable. You're used to having the same voices. You play with players that you've played for— with, uh, played with for years. And I wouldn't say you don't— you get tested a lot. You almost get quite comfortable in your situation. And I'm a big advocate of players looking to move counties if if it doesn't feel like their game is, is constantly improving. So it gives you the opportunity to go and work with a different coach, different mindset. You're under different pressure to be able to go and perform. You have to keep getting better because you're expected to come and score runs as a big signing when you go to those clubs. So I think it's benefited him a lot, and it'd actually be interesting to see how he goes about his batting in the County Championship. He's been really aggressive because at the time that's what players wanted. They, you know, they wanted the bazball-type players to take the game on. He really attacked it, and when he got in, he really dominated and put the bowlers under a lot of pressure by hitting a lot of fours and sixes, which— this is a different regime. And if he goes, walks out and gets caught at cow corner for Seema, um, in a Test match under a new regime, how that would be viewed would be different. But I'd like to see him go about the way he has been and just be as positive as he can but smart with the way he scores his runs.

Jordan Cox at 3, he's been unlucky at times in squads, gets injured, one thing or another.

How good is he? I, I absolutely love him. I think he's a brilliant player. I, I think he's— yeah, as you say, he's been one of those unlucky players that he's always had injuries at times when you think he's going to get a good run for it. Um, I like his technique. I think he's very solid in defense. I think he's got a lot of confidence about him. He hits the ball incredibly cleanly, and I think it's the right time for him. And once again, he's only really getting this chance because of an injury to Jacob Bethel, um, but he still has an opportunity to stake his claim. And whether it be in that number 3 or down the order if— when Bethel comes back, um, but I really like him and I hope he gets a good run in this series. And hopefully he does get a score under his belt and he's able to push for more opportunities later on because I think he's a hell of a player.

Yeah, and somebody that could be a big part of England's future across formats.

Oh, 100%. Like, and you look at him in T20, he's had a couple of goes, and ODIs, and same thing, it hasn't worked out for him in that small sort of sample of opportunities that he's been given. But that doesn't mean he's not a good player. You know, some players come in and get 100, or they get a 50, and suddenly they get back to other players. It takes a little bit of time, but that doesn't mean you're not a good player. And I think he has all the attributes to be very successful in international cricket. He just needs to get a bit of a run, and then when he gets the run, he needs to score runs. Because obviously, as, as basic as that sounds, scoring runs is what keeps you in once you get that opportunity.

What about the return of Ollie Pope? Because after the, uh, Ashes series in Australia, it felt as though his time, maybe certainly for a slightly longer extended period, might have come to an end. I don't think he's going to be in the, the mind to start matches, but he is back in the Test squad.

Yeah, I've got to be honest, I was slightly surprised by that. Just to clarify, Ollie Pope's obviously a very good player. He scored 10 Test hundreds. You're not a mug with a bat if you score 10 Test hundreds. And he's— I think at times he's been absolutely phenomenal for England. I mean, he was averaging close to 40 batting at 3. And as with any good player, and the longer you're in, the more chances you have to fail and the more you get found out. And he eventually got dropped during that Ashes when he had a poor run. And you know, a lot of the issues that play— or people have said that he'd had over the years hadn't really been rectified. I think the surprising thing for me is that he's been dropped and 3 games later he's been picked again. When— and I know people say he's averaged 54 in, in county cricket. Ollie Pope will average 54, 55, 80 every year for the rest of his career in county cricket. He's that good a player. But at the end of the day, you need to get judged on what you do when you play for England when you've been around for a long period of time. Scoring runs in county cricket gets you looked at, and then you get judged on what you do in international cricket. And I think there's a lot of times, and this is not only for, for Ollie but for other players, where they don't perform in domestic— sorry, international cricket. They go away and they dominate a tournament or a period of time, they just get repicked again, and you forget about the performances at Test cricket. But I hope Ollie Pope's gone away in this 3 or 4 month period, he's rectified it, because otherwise you're just going to get the same player again. But It does show a lot that he's gone away and still been able to score runs to put his name back in the hat.

He's played 64 Tests. It's a huge sample size. Um, 113 innings, averages 34.5.

Yeah, well, they're tricky when you look at numbers because I know the start of Bazball, there were some really good wickets that they played on, and it looked like they went to a shift of going away from the green wickets to playing on flat wickets where, where Baddis could express themselves. But there's also been times where he's scored some really tough runs on tough wickets. He scored that double hundred in India, I think it was, on a really tricky wicket. And he scored some hundreds before on wickets as well. And you look at the Ashes stats where batters were really averaging low, there weren't a lot of players that, that scored a lot of runs. So the wickets you play in are not great. So statistically, sometimes it is hard. But I once got told that at the end of your career, statistics are what you get judged on. So if you're averaging 34, then that's what you know, the type of player you're on, whatever the wickets you are. So, you know, that's a lot of Test matches, but you have to say he was in and out in the early stages of his career. And when he did get a run, he did average 39 or 40 for a long period of time. So it shows he's a really good player and he can perform at international cricket. So there's no doubt in that. It's just whether it's the right time to bring him back and what message you're sending that, oh, you've been dropped for 3 Test matches. Not only him, but in general. And just go and average whatever your average score, 100 in county cricket, and you're just straight back in. And I don't know if that just shows about the depth of county cricket and the depth of the players that they're looking at at the moment, and if they— that pool is actually a lot smaller than what we think.

Into the squad comes Sam Cook again after, uh, time in the wilderness after his one opportunity against Zimbabwe, uh, in the early part of 2025. Um, numbers again domestically almost demand selection.

It does. And I guess it's just the makeup of the, of the team and how they go about it. You know, he's knocked on the door for years. He got that opportunity. He came out and said that he thought he tried too hard and he tried too many things, and if he got his go again, he'd try and be as simple as he possibly can, do what he does at County Cricket. So, you know, I expect him to have learned from that. He's a, he's a smart cricketer. I've played a lot of cricket with him. I've played the Rockets for 3 years. He thinks about the game so well. He's really clear how he wants to go about his game, and I'm pretty sure that if he gets another crack at it, he will be very good. And I guess the decision for them is whether it's Cook or Ollie Robinson, who's come back from an injury, carried a bit of a niggle, but he was phenomenal as well. So it looks like they're trying to find that like for like with Robinson and Sam Cook, and then they'll play the pace around that.

What about Shoaib Bashir? Continues to be selected, and England are going to play 4 seamers, and what his role is going to be remains to be seen. And I don't know, it just feels like we continue with this experiment and continue to say that he is their number one spinner. But I don't know, your thoughts?

Well, I feel for him to some, to some degree. It's not his decision to pick himself, and it's not just his decision on how things go on the field. He obviously tries as well as he can. I think the hardest thing is that every single person you speak to from a coaching point of view whether that's Mickey Arthur at Derby or England coaches and even Joe Root, they think he's going to be phenomenal. And so when they watch him bowl and they admit to him and they face him in the nets, they say this guy is the real deal, right? So there's a lot when, when a lot of players are saying we think this guy is going to be brilliant, it's really tricky when you have to give them the opportunity to play in Test cricket and then judge them on that. And it goes back to the same with the batting. At the end of the day, you're judged on what you do in international cricket, whatever you do in the nets. And he just either needs to be given a run or he needs to go and work on his game, and that decision needs to be made. It looks like they keep sticking with him because they do think there's potential, they do think he's the next big spinner for England. Um, but as I said, at some point they need to make a decision on that and either back him, because what happened in the Ashes wasn't easy for someone like him. You're listening to the TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

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Well, that was the former England opener David Millar. Let's get some more views now as Daniel Norcross has been behind the scenes at The Hundred to speak to our BBC team.

I have got Tomar Mills alongside me. Your reaction to this 16-man squad that England have selected? Seems like a very big one for a home 3-match series.

Yeah, it is. I guess there's a lot of bowling cover on there. Obviously The Hundred runs right up until the start of the Test, so if For example, 2 or 3 of the bowlers are playing in the Hundred final. Will that affect selection come Test day? Ollie Robinson's partner, for his wife, is due their first child in the next week to 10 days as well. So I think there's a little bit of that thrown in. So yeah, a lot of COVID needed, particularly on the bowling front. And ironically, it's the batter in Amelia Gay who's gotten injured. It'll be interesting to see what they do should he not be available. But Yeah, I think a little bit of a few selections in there that have raised a few eyebrows and or at least caught the eye. I personally really like Dan Lawrence's selection. I think he's been in excellent form all year. I think he's an excellent player, all forms of the game. He's been really well in the Hundred now, but he's also doing really well in the county championship as well and gives you, I think, a very good off-skilling option as well. So yeah, I like personally Dan Lawrence's selection. I think he's been merited. And, um, yeah, look, forcing him playing in the, in the Pakistan shoes.

We've had such a dry summer, you would expect spin to come into it, and clearly they've decided that Shoaib Bashir is still the main spinner, but no place for Rehan Ahmed. Does that surprise you?

Uh, look, they've obviously gone for Dan Lawrence over, over him as, as the, as a spinning option. Um, and yeah, Rehan is, he's been tough, I think, dealt with a bit of a tough hand because he's been, he's been in squads pretty consistently for the last, what, 3 years, 4 years without actually playing very much. And then now, as you say, decent chance to maybe have a good look at him, and they've decided not to go that way. Um, but obviously we've got a new hierarchy now within English cricket. Marcus North, Steven Fleming, I'm sure has had his kind of run, his rule over the squad as well, and given his input, although he won't be physically in charge for this series. And look, they've obviously picked this squad that they want to have a look at. And, you know, unfortunately, Rehan hasn't been involved, but he's so young that his time will come eventually, I'm sure. Um, it's just not on this occasion.

As a fast bowler though, are you intrigued by the fact that Sonny Baker, who has played a Test match this summer already at the Oval, not in the squad, but Sam Cooke is? And that's sort of a nod to county cricket. But, um, the previous management didn't seem that they wanted to go to a quintessentially English bowler. They were looking for out-and-out pace. But this squad just showing signs of maybe just veering more towards this sort of quintessentially English seamer.

Yeah, potentially. I think that with Archer and Tung, you do have two 90-mile-an-hour bowlers, so it's not like you're lacking one. So I guess for the, you know, the flavor and variety of different bowlers in different molds, and it's great to see— look, Sam Pugh is a fast bowler. I know his test debut against Zimbabwe last summer didn't quite go as he probably would have liked, but, you know, one game doesn't make a bad bowler. And if he gets an opportunity, I back him to bounce back. And as I say, I think they're just wanting to have a variety in there for different conditions. And we don't know what type of pitches they're going to be asking to be prepared for, either at Headingley for first test or the tests thereafter. But I think they've got most bases covered. As always, they haven't got a left-armer in there, but you know, that's kind of one thing that's been missing from English Test team for a long time. But apart from that, they've got pretty much all the bases covered.

So finally, on that subject, because they also haven't got a seam bowling all-rounder in there, They said that Sam Curran, they didn't feel was ready yet because of his injuries, but they haven't ruled him out for the third test. Would you like to see somebody like Sam Curran, or indeed Sam Curran, in that type?

Yeah, look, he certainly fits the bill in terms of the skill set that they would want. Ben Stokes is obviously a nigh on impossible player to replace as a cricketer, to remove the captaincy side of things. And Sam Curran's probably as close as you're going to get in terms of being a genuine batter. Which he is. You know, he bats in the top 5, top 4 in franchise cricket around the world. If you play for Surrey, he could well do so as well in the County Championship. And he's a good fourth seamer to have as part of your team as well. Gives you left-arm angle, might create a little bit of rough for your off-spinner. Those little things, those kind of intangibles that, you know, you don't always think about. And yeah, look, they obviously name-checked him and said that if he was fit, he probably would have been part of the squad in the first instance. But he had this— I think it's a hamstring he was struggling with a little bit, although he's back playing and he's bowling in the Hundred. But I guess, you know, if you're going to pick him as a Test player, you need to be sure that he can bowl you 10 to 15 overs at least twice during the game. So I think the smart thing was, you know, just holding him off for now. But it sounds like we'll see him back in whites pretty soon.

I have got with me Stephen Finn. Stephen, there are a lot of fast bowlers in this squad. There are 16 people in the squad. What's your take on the squad as a whole?

Well, I've been on Ashes series tours with fewer players than they've named in this squad. So yeah, there's a few to pick from. I think the one certainty is the batting lineup, isn't it? Depending on what Emilio Gay does with his shoulder and how he comes through that. But Cox at 3 and Lawrence at 6 are two guys who I think have earned their opportunity to see how they get on in those roles. I think the big challenge and the big question and conundrum is going to be the makeup of the bowling unit, given that Ben Stokes isn't there to balance it as an all-rounder. And I think they're just going to have to look at the conditions on the day to determine who are the 4 bowlers that take up the bowling slots.

Couple of notable omissions, you'd say, because in the search for this all-rounder, Will Jacks was a spinning all-rounder in the Ashes. Rayan Ahmed has been a spinning all-rounder in quite a few of these squads. And here's one for you, Craig Overton, who's been scoring loads of runs, taking loads of wickets. He might have been able to slot in, do a job there as well, but they've decided against any of those three.

Yes, I— Ryan, for me, is the biggest surprise out of those three not to be in the squad, I think, because he could give you a genuine batting option at number 7. He bats 3 for, um, for his team Leicestershire in the Championship and has scored hundreds doing that. So he's a genuine batting option in that top 7. So For him not to be in the squad, I think, is a nod towards the way that they think they're going to go with probably what will be a seam-heavy attack and then rely on Joe Root, the skipper himself, to be the one, and Dan Lawrence, to do the bowling. So, the spin bowling. So yeah, I was surprised by Rehan's non-inclusion. I think that with Craig Overton, he's more of a bowler that bats, even though he is having an outstanding season with the bat, but he's not someone that I would see batting in a Test match top 7.

Well, as luck would have it, I've also got Phil Topton alongside me. Um, you've heard everything that Stephen Finn said there. What's your take?

Well, I think Finny summed it up beautifully.

If—

listen, they've picked a big squad, haven't they? And, and if they all play well, we might win. Might, might.

But, um, as, as, as Stephen says, it's all about getting that bowling unit.

The batting sort of has picked itself. I'm delighted to see, uh, the likes of Cox get another go and Dan Lawrence get another go. Weight of runs has given them their opportunity. I, you know, it hasn't rained in England for about 2 and a half months, so do you want to be going into a Test match without a recognized spinner? Um, I, I, I want to see a spin bowler there. Obviously can have a look at the pitch, it could be this, you know, they could ask for that and what have you, but they want to see a spinner, and this is their this is their sort of, as I think Stephen said, conundrum. You know, how do you get the balance of that attack? Listen, all the seamers, you know, Brydon Carr's come back from injury, obviously. Has he done a lot of bowling? I'm not quite sure. Um, you know, it's, it's all about trying to squeeze it in. And as you say, without Stokes, you're just forever a batter short, a bowler short, or we're looking to sort of a fill-in here and a fill-in there. Going to be interesting. I think Stephen Fleming has picked the squad because he wants to have a little look at them all and see how they are in the dressing room and what have you. But, uh, yes, it's just going to be a little bit tricky to get everyone in.

Just a quick pause for thought on Sam Cooke and Ollie Pope, because Ollie Pope obviously out of the squad earlier on in this season. He has scored a fair few runs for Surrey, but not a mountain of runs. Sam Cooke has been overlooked since his one Test match against Zimbabwe, but he's still taken loads of wickets in county cricket. Is this sort of saying, look, lads, we are keeping an eye on the domestic game as well?

Absolutely. I mean, they were criticized about that, weren't they, about not having an eye on what's going on in county cricket. So I think that, as you say, the big squad that's been selected is a nod to say, listen, you know, everyone's got a chance. And that's what you want, you know, you want everyone to be out there busting the gut to get runs, get wickets in county cricket, to get their chance of playing for England. And so, yeah, I mean, I know we take the mickey a little bit that it's a big squad, but I mean, it just sort of like says to everyone, right then, lads, you know, we're looking at you, knock the door down, and you'll get your go.

Last question to both of you. If Emilio Gay was injured, who is— because there isn't a spare opener in this squad, they got to look somewhere else. Have you got any idea who might open with alongside Duckett, Vinnie?

No, I, um, no, no, I don't. I, and I think it'll be interesting to see whether they do what they did to Dan Lawrence a few years ago where they lobbed him up the top and, um, and then we didn't see him again, did we, for until this Test match squad here. So I hope that doesn't happen. I hope if Emilio Gay isn't fit, that they do go for their next best perceived opener. And also with the new regime, it might give them the opportunity to go back to someone who's had a chance before to see if they can make a better go of it second time round.

Taffers, who might that be? Has it even been me? Dom Sibley? Who do you reckon?

Well, I don't know. Or you're going to go back to Zach Crawley. Who knows? I mean, oh, who knows? You know what I mean? I quite like the look of McKinney. Up at Durham. He might be a little bit too early for him, but who knows, you know. Hopefully Emilio, who when he came in did well— I thought he did well on a poor pitch here, you know, got himself a 50 in that second innings. He looks to have a great attitude towards the game, looks to play with a smile on his face. That's what I like. So hopefully he's going to be all right. Otherwise, I agree with Steve, I don't know.

Thanks, lads.

The TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

I'm joined by Ebony Rainford-Brent to run our rule over the England squad. What do you make of it, Ebony?

Big squad, very big squad. Um, and obviously the biggest challenge here is balancing Ben Stokes out of the team, which throws a whole load of problems up. So you can see that in the maneuvering. I think first of all, Jordan Cox coming in at number 3, that is, um, you know, it's gonna be a new role for him. Very talented player, but he's gonna have to step up quite quickly. The next is Dan Lawrence in at 6, which, you know, Will Jacks had been in that role, and in some ways I felt he had actually shown quite a good skill set and some fight actually in parts of the Ashes over the winter. So he'll be disappointed, and for Dan Lawrence, he's going to have to hold that. Some other things, no opener, Dan. We were just talking off air actually about the fact that there is no backup opener to Emilio Gay and Ben Duckett, so that the key is that they stay fit and get a long run. I suppose what it does do is show that they back those two. And Ollie Pope being in the side, you know, again, that's another move that maybe a few didn't expect after the sort of move. What I would say about Pope is that, look, he didn't have the best Ashes. He's a high-quality player, and you definitely don't want to write someone like him off. So for him, this is going to be a lifeline, getting back in the environment. And if Calderwood is going to have to step up— but the real thing for Joe Root is navigating this new era with a team that doesn't quite have the formula yet that they had, um, and they're going to have to put some, some wins on the board pretty early.

A 16-man squad, and you'd expect Jacob Bethell to be back in that squad for the South Africa series because that's not now until, you know, December, so it's a fair time for him to recover. Uh, does this sort of give you the feel that this is the, the squad they would take to South Africa? Is that why they've taken such a, such a big squad here?

I think it's big squad because they need to get players in and amongst each other while they refine the formula. I think the hardest thing is finding that genuine all-rounder who can offer you what someone like Stokes does. Once he's out of the line lineup, then you're constantly trying to battle to find that formula. And I think what it shows is they haven't quite— I don't think they've quite got it right. Once Bethell's in, he comes in at 3, but then that later sort of middle order is, is a difficult place to be. So I sense they need 16 players around right now to get their heads around the next 12 months, the next 18 months, and the build-up to the Ashes. So high-quality players in there, but a lot of navigating to do.

I've got Michael Carberry alongside me. Carbs, we've seen the squad, a big squad, 16-man squad. What do you make of it? Does it feel right?

Well, there's some interesting picks looking down the lineup. Brydon Carr's back in. No Sonny Baker, who I thought gave him a good account of himself the last time he played for England against New Zealand. So I think he should feel a little bit aggrieved that he's not made the squad. Good to see Dan Lawrence back in. I think he's had a fantastic season with Surrey, and you know, it's nice to see their runs and performances are rewarded. I suppose, yeah, I mean, Sam Cooke is another one. I think I rate him as quite a good bowler. And again, good to see performances rewarded. Um, and Ollie Pope, the notable one, back in the squad. So interesting, some interesting picks.

What we do know is that Cox is going to be at 3, Lawrence is going to be at 6, and he's taking that role of the all-rounder that's been vacated by Stokes. I haven't gone the seam bowling all-rounder, um, because they could have looked at, say, Craig Overton. Sam Curran, they've decided, isn't quite bowling fit yet. So firstly, that looks like it means that they're playing 4 fast bowlers plus Lawrence unless the pitch really rags. And then secondly, no spare opener, and there's been an injury scare with Emilio Gay. We think he's going to play, but it just shows there's still a place to play for there potentially, isn't there, for the, for the top spot?

Yeah, I mean, it's, uh, I mean, it's going to throw up some interesting questions. I mean, like, in terms— let's deal with the openers first. I mean, uh, there's no— notably no spare opener. So does that mean Ollie Pope, who is down to bat down the order, which I find strange because he's done well at 3, which is kind of an opener anyway, should he not be? I would have thought the likelihood is he'd either be elevated to open with Ben Duckett, or will they bring in— my pick would be Dom Sibley, personally. But is Dom Sibley still on the England radar? Is he a little bit outside of the age catchment now, or would they be looking at someone younger to bring in? Um, yeah, it throws up an interesting question. I'm not sure, is Dan Lawrence spin, off-spin good enough at Test level to play that all-rounder role? Um, or should, should they be looking to play actual 4 specialist bowlers?

Um, lastly, spinner. Very dry summer, and there's a chance that those pitches might have got dry and dusty. There's only the one spinner in that squad really, Ishaq Bashir, with some part-time off-breaks from Dan Lawrence, Joe Root. Are you surprised Rayan Ahmed's not in that squad, or indeed any other spinner from around the country?

I'm always surprised when Rayan Ahmed is not in and doesn't make squads. I don't know what he has to do to make some of these squads. I mean, you'd think this summer's been incredibly dry, we've had no rain in months, And interestingly, you've got spinners that turn the ball the same way. You've got Joe Root, who offers some part-time offspin. You also have Dan Lawrence, who's an offspinner. Shoaib Ashraf is also an offspinner. So that's 3 offspinners, and no one turns the ball the other way. I mean, I suppose we've lost that through Bethell, be it through injury. So you'd think Rayan Ahmed, for me, should come back into the fold, um, in terms of being able to offer the ball turning away from the bat.

The TMS Podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Many thanks to Dan. You can follow The Hundred all of this week on BBC Sounds, with finals on Sunday. Also on BBC Two and the iPlayer, where you'll also find bite-sized highlights of all matches. Don't forget to check out also our YouTube channel. And Test Match Special will be on air for that Test match series between England and Pakistan's men. The first test, Wednesday, 19th of August at Headingly. We'll be live on air at 10:25. Thanks so much for listening. We'll speak to you again soon.

What's that saying about not letting the truth get in the way of a good story? Well, I'm Karel Prince and I'm in the way. Online, I catch out some of the biggest names in football, holding their tall tales to account. But now the tables have turned. Can I spot the truth from the lies as those same guys who I try to catch try and catch me out?

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