How Australia won the 1978 & 1982 Women’s World Cups

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Hello, I'm Alison Mitchell. Welcome to the TMS podcast where we'll be looking back at the 1982 and the 1978 Women's World Cups. We'll start with 1982, where Australia celebrated their second World cup title in New Zealand. And to help us travel back in time, I'll be joined by Australia captain and fast bowler Sharon Tredray, who won that World cup, as well as two others in the longer format. And cricket journalist and historian Raf Nicholson is with us too.

You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 live.

Raf and Sharon, hello to you both. And Sharon, great to see you. Tell us, Sharon, first of all, whereabouts are you in Australia at the moment?

I'm in a little place outside of Polo Bay called Marengo.

And Raf, you are in the UK, but take us back Raf if you can, to 1982. Set the scene. Where is this World Cup? Tell us about New Zealand, the format. What are we looking at in 1982?

Sure. So yeah, it's the first time that New Zealand have hosted the World cup and it's being played across both the north and the South Islands. Seven different venues starting off in Auckland, ending up in Christchurch. Five competing teams this time. So mentioned, Australia. England obviously hosts New Zealand, India, but also an international 11 again, which was something that was also seen in the first World cup in 1973. On this occasion, I think the International Eleven was there again because of, well, the situation with apartheid in South Africa. So West Indies were supposed to be one of the competing nations. But. But the Caribbean governments didn't want the West Indies team playing in a country in New Zealand which was still at that point maintaining some sporting ties with apartheid South Africa. So in rugby, the All Blacks had toured South Africa in July 1981. So we're in this situation whereby West Indies withdraw and therefore you have an international 11 once again made up of players from all of the competing nations.

Right. So it was quite a long tournament, wasn't it? A round robin, but a triple round robin. Sharon, tell us for you, where were you guys as a team, as an Australian team coming into this World Cup?

It's been quite a transition in Australian cricket, kind of between 76 and 82, with selectors just starting to pick purely on form in our national championships. And again that occurred. So there were a number of changes to the team, some surprises and just same old same old with myself and Rayleigh. Yep. We had just finished a nearly two and a half week national championships from which the team was selected. And I must admit we're all pretty tired after that because we're playing four days, one day off. Four days, one day off. Four days, one day off. And it's as you probably expect, the competition's pretty fierce, so no easy games. But probably be a good lead up to the World Cup. New faces. It's always exciting when that happens and.

The organization of it. Raf then it had a sponsor for the first time this tournament, didn't it?

Yes, it did. Sponsored by Handsells, who I think were a kind of New Zealand food manufacturer. And there was also some funding from the New Zealand government as well, which was quite significant. Obviously we're Talking about the 1980s where teams are still kind of having to fundraise in order to participate in international tournaments. So having a sponsor on board and having some government support was really important.

Yeah.

Did you feel that, Sharon? Did you benefit from any of that funding? How were you guys funding yourselves?

No, it's just simply. I think the funding that started to come in was for the host countries to help actually put on these championships or World Cups. It was still, we all had to pay something. Not as much as I'd paid the previous times I toured. But yeah, hadn't quite got to the stage where we'd get get away with traveling and not having to pay something from our own pockets.

And so what were you doing at the time? You were all taking. What were you doing at the time? Were you all taking time out of your jobs to come to this World Cup?

Yep, yep.

Yep.

For some of us it was easy. For others, I wouldn't say easy, but we had the support of our employers and others found it extremely hard having to basically take time off without paying. What kind of jobs?

Can you remember what you and your teammates were doing at that time?

Oh, look, it varied. The school teachers seemed to have the biggest problem getting time off, especially when it lapped over into a start of a new school year here in Australia. They were all right for January, but when it went into February there were issues with them. I was employed by a bank at that point and they were always willing to basically pay me or pay me, put me on half pay while I was touring, which was very handy. Riley's police force, she didn't have any issue with that, but probably the majority were schoolteachers. So, yeah, kind of everybody had their own circumstances and those that weren't teachers were either administration, clerical, those types of jobs. And a lot of those they still either had to give up their jobs or take time off without pay.

And can I ask something, Sharon, because I've come across something, I don't know if you'll remember this in the minutes of the International Women's Cricket Council about the Australia team's World cup clothing incorporating the logo of your sponsor. And apparently that was actually against IWCC guidelines at the time. So the English Women's Cricket association objected to this because they said that you shouldn't have any sponsorship kind of logos or insignia on your team uniform. But the Aussies were just like, well, it's happened, so deal with it basically.

Is that what happened?

Actually, I'm trying to think what the logo was. Couldn't have been too significant. I shouldn't say that. I know there'd been issues in a prior tour where the Australian Wool Corporation wanted to use logos and things and we happened to be touring England, so that was just off. Boom. But I suspect that's probably what Australians would do. Just say, it's too bad it's on there.

I tell you what though, it was a long tournament, wasn't it? And I mentioned the triple round robin, so everybody played each other three times, so 30 group matches with the top two going through to the final in the 60 over format.

Yeah, that was 12 games in under three weeks, I think, which by the end of it, and it was 60 over games back then, so put additional overs additional time and we played on full size ground. So there's a lot of running in the batting. Not so many fours and sixes as you get now. I do Remember that?

Yeah, it's awesome. Tell us some more about those venues, raf, where the matches were played.

It was quite a mixed bag, actually I think so they were playing on some major grounds but also some school grounds. So one of the grounds in Christchurch they played at, Christ College ground. There were a couple of kind of more local club grounds in there as well. So yeah, again, sort of basically whatever the New Zealand Women's Cricket Council could. Whoever they could persuade to host them, really.

Sharon, what do you remember about the travel around the country and the places you stayed as well?

We travelled a lot. We'd only be in it somewhere two or three days at most. It depended on whether we were playing games two days running. We'd get there the day before and leave the day after. So it was just sort of pack up, go, pack up, go. We played at some really pretty cricket grounds, not the big Lancaster park, which is probably no longer as a cricket ground. We played the final there but all the other games in Christchurch were played at. Is it Christ College or if I remember rightly, beautiful cricket grounds, like amazing. We played in a club, a club ground up in Auckland which was another pretty little ground built into the side of a volcano. It was just some really interesting grounds. I mean, in that era, playing on major cricket grounds, I think was sort of a. Maybe once every now and then, but like the facilities and everything were just amazing.

And what do you remember about the interest in the World Cup? Many spectators coming to the ground. Do you recall what media coverage there might have been?

There was actually quite a lot of media coverage which surprised everyone. It couldn't be too much going on in New Zealand that time here, no, New Zealanders just love sport. So most of the games were well supported. There was a decent crowd, I think, even for the final in Christchurch, but a lot of people following from England and Australia and then the Indians had. It was like rent a crowd travelling with them, just a lot of people traveling with them. But yeah, it was a really good atmosphere. Not too big and probably more than we expected. They were very laid back then.

And when you say media coverage, print media, was there any television coverage, radio commentary.

Usually part of a sports thing on the news coverage, so just kind of at the end of the news. But the media in newspapers was quite big, back page, which is amazing. It's a very different era, wasn't it today?

Yeah, very much so, yeah. What are your memories of some of the matches, Sharon? Themselves?

I remember two of the games against India for some reason I don't remember the first one, I cannot. Whatever I do, I can't remember, but I kind of felt like India had come into this competition. They were in the previous World cup, but you know what Indian cricket is like. There's just a lot of politics and they had some really good players and I was actually quite disappointed in the results that they got throughout the tournament. I thought they were a much better team.

Some very heavy defeats weren't there?

Oh, yeah, yeah. And yeah, it just, it really disappointed me. I remember all the games against New Zealand because we, Australia, New Zealand had a very healthy competition between us back then. We seemed to play.

Some things haven't changed.

Yeah, we actually, on paper, both Rayleigh and I. I'll say Rayleigh and I, because we talked a lot during the cricket and everything else.

You were the two opening bowlers, weren't you, for Australia?

Yeah, we played a lot of cricket together a lot of years. We actually thought New Zealand probably had the best team on paper, as have they had had in previous years. And we had some interesting games against them. Our idea, our strategies, playing them were just to put a lot of pressure on them and the more pressure you put on, the better it was from our point of view. The England gains were tight, which was great.

You had a tie, didn't you, against England?

We did, Yep. England had two for the tournament.

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Raf, what were the historical significances of those two tied matches?

Well, they were the first ever ties in women's ODI cricket and I think there have only been still Only ever been 12 tied matches in women's odis. And if you think that two of them then took place within a couple, like a couple of weeks of each other. Incredible.

Really.

Yeah, yeah. I went back to over the scores and things and it wasn't like a massively high scoring championship or World cup despite 60 overs being bold, but you have to remember that we're playing on full size grounds so boundaries could be anything from 65 to 75 or even more. But it still was, it was actually really good competitive cricket and yeah, had to fight hard to get through. We were surprised at the end that we had like 10 wins and a tie in the rounds. But, you know, I look back and I'm looking, looking back at scores and things and it's really interesting how someone always did something. It wasn't the same people in our team that made the runs, took the wickets, whatever it seemed to be. We spread the load a lot.

You're a dominant side then because through that World cup you went 13 matches without defeat, but was part of a much bigger 24 match unbeaten run through from 1978 to 1985. So, Rafa, we, we always. We're used to Australian dominance in the current day, but Australia were dominating in Sharon's era as well.

Yeah, they absolutely were. They were the kind of. They were certainly the team to beat. They'd obviously lost to England in that first World cup final in 1973 and then again in 1978. I know we'll come on to the final in a minute, but. Yeah, sorry. Australia had then won the final in 1978 against England and then we'll come to the final of this tournament in a minute. But it did again come down to Australia v. England. And you're right that Australia were this kind of. Absolutely. This force to be reckoned with. And Sharon was. Was kind of one of the key components of that side, I think.

Well, Sharon, let's talk more about you because first of all, I need to ask you, how fast did you bowl before the days of speed guns? What do you reckon you were bowling at?

I was at a practice session. Do we do miles per hour or. Back then I was. I was. The fastest balls I was bowling were around 83 miles per hour. Wow, what's that about 130, 130 something now? Kilometers per hour. But I didn't actually think I was bowling quick. Yeah. Most of the people that faced me said yes, but I don't know how it came about either because I started as a leg spin bowler.

Really?

Yes, as a young kid. So how come.

How did that transition happen?

My sister can't even tell me. We were talking about it the other day. I just sort of don't know. I just started bowling and people are encouraging me to bowl a bit quicker and away I went.

Was there something about your action? If you were watching back your own action now, how would you describe it? Because those kind of speech, I mean, everyone talks about the. The pace of Shadmeen Ishmael, the pace of Catherine Fitzpatrick, sort of back in the day, but then your name is always there. Those who either witnessed have heard have had that passed down. Sharon Tredray was the fastest. Is the fastest bowler that women's game has had.

I don't know. I was very fit. That's from a young kid. My brother used to take us. He's practicing on us for fitness work and he used to take a lot of sessions and I used to love running, doing lots, lots and lots and lots of work. I'm a bit crazy with practice. I can like I've just come home from practice down here. I coach the under 17 girls and the women but I'd been bowling since four o' clock still. They all. You turn around and they've all gone off and checking their phones. No, But I think one thing that stuck in my head was having a chat with some friends recently and we're talking cricket and things and they just said, oh, you just look strong. And I said, probably the fitness part of it. And after the 73 World Cup, Miriam Nee, who was captain of Australia back then, was coached by a lady called Nell McLarty who played for Australia in the 30s and he got invited along to be coached. So I was introduced and from there I think I just kept on improving, I kept learning. Is amazing, Amazing, Amazing coach life and with cricket. Yeah.

You also came from a very sporty family overall, didn't you? You mentioned your brother, mentioned your nephew as well. Warren Tred Dre. There's a big strong Aussie rules thread, isn't there? And your sister as well. Tell us about your family's sporting ties.

We could always. There were four of us in the family. One hated sport, my oldest brother. So he kind of stayed at home and the rest of us trooped around and did things. Gary was a very good footballer. Afl? Yep. Played with Collingwood and then went across to port in Adelaide. Jan, she was good at everything. She did one of those natural sports people and I really didn't want her playing cricket because that was the only thing I had that do that she hadn't done. But then we were short of players one day, so I was made to go home and get my sister and from there it just went on and she ended up playing or touring twice with my sister at that level.

Yeah, she played five Tests and five ODIs, didn't she?

Yeah, yeah, she did. Very good batter, extremely good fielder.

Do you think that family dynamic was something that, you know, kind of kept pushing you?

No, we're not a competitive family within. We're all very competitive when we play sport. But probably were our biggest supporters amongst the family. Mum and dad were love, sport and a constant behind us, but without being. Not outrageous. They hardly said a word about. About our, I suppose, our adventures and.

Just let you get on with it.

Yeah, they did. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, well, get on with it. You did and you got to that World cup final. I noted Dickey Bird umpired is a good footnote as well. What do you remember of that, Sharon?

Well, we were in. Well, it started at the World cup in Auckland and he was going to be umpiring our first game, I think against India, I think it was. And we're doing the sort of training and things before the first game and he went down with a terrible cold. So he had all the Australians taking him hot toddies and God knows what, hoping for a bit of a. Maybe give us a decision perhaps that our way. He's just a lovely, lovely man, a cricket nut like just, just always talking cricket, talking cricket. But probably the first of men with some sort of link to top level men's cricket who was pleasantly surprised by women's cricket because I don't think he'd had a lot to do with it up until then.

Well, he became the first umpire to stand in both the men's and women's World cup final, Raph, didn't he?

Yeah, but yeah, I think he became a little bit of an advocate for women's cricket after that.

Raph, do you want to take us into the final itself then give us a bit of a rundown of what happened and we'll get Sharon to flesh out a little bit more from her memories.

Sure. So yeah, it was played at Lancaster Park, Christchurch, and I would say Australia, with that kind of dominant run ahead of the final, were definitely the favourites going in. But it ended up being quite a tight match. So England put 151 for five on the board led by Jan Southgates 53. Sharon took a couple of wickets which no doubt she'll remember. Australia then had a little bit of a slump. They were 28 for three and then had to kind of had to pick themselves up and recover from that. And I think that they ended up winning with just a few balls remaining. I think it was the penultimate over. So they won by three wickets with six balls remaining. And Sharon had a role to play with the bat as well, didn't you, Sharon?

Yes. Bit of a shock. I was expecting that our top order had done so well throughout the tournament. It just didn't happen. But then, you know, Avril Starling was bowling extremely well that day. She was probably herself and Carol Hodges, I think throughout the tournament were the two that probably stood out from England. Yeah. Like in the first, when we bowled, we had a specific plan, and that was probably just to try and choke the runs and not give away fours, which I thought we did quite well. So we were very happy to be chasing 155. Well, we were when we came off the ground. Yeah. And I think Lynette Foulston took some wickets now. She was just. She was like the 12th hill you have on the ground when she was bowling, you had nobody at Midwicket and nobody to the. To the left of her. She could cover that ground and bowl and do everything else. Yeah. So we were very happy with the. Well, relatively low total in the run up to that. We had two openers, Peter Vercoe or Peter Cook, I can't remember if she was married before that, and Denise Emerson. And they were just basically making runs every game. And then towards the back half of the World Cup, Denise form just sort of went. Just dropped off. And we made a decision to drop her for that final, which wasn't an easy one. So we had to rejig our batting order, and I think that kind of upset the balance somehow.

But was that a tough call that you had to make? How much was it you. How much was it the coach? And who has to deliver that tough news?

Just remember, this was before support staff. We had a manageress, and then the team was picked by a captain, vice captain and a third selector. So, yeah, it's not. It's the worst part. It was back in those days, the worst part of being a selector on tour, that you're making judgments on people you know very well and friends and. Yeah, I didn't like that part at all. But it came with the territory, unfortunately. But to Denise's credit, she understood it and was disappointed, but you wouldn't have known anything had happened, Just that type of person.

And so when the World cup is won, victory is secured with six balls to spare. What do you remember that moment being like relief?

Absolutely. I think most people tell you that there's this big buildup. Yeah. Happy. Everybody is really happy. But we're all relieved and extremely tired. All of a sudden, it just sort of goes. There's the elation and then you just go, boom. But it probably, kind of weeks after that, got together with a few of the ladies from Victoria that were in the team, and that was probably in a more relaxed atmosphere and just discussing it. And the general feeling was that we pushed it hard the whole time and Very satisfied with how we actually coming away with the World cup win, because it could have gone anyway in the final.

Are you telling me there wasn't the energy for a big celebration on the nights?

No. We were basically flown out of the country almost. That's the way it was. We're on flights back to Australia. Wow.

And a quick thought on you as captain, Sharon. How did the captaincy come about if you wind your mind back and how did you enjoy leadership? How do you describe yourself as a captain?

As a result of a previous Marc Jennings not being selected for a Test series against New Zealand? I do remember being asked to speak to the selectors and I thought, what on earth is this about? And I initially said, no, give it to Raleigh. And Raleigh, apparently they said back to me, no. Rayleigh said, she doesn't want it. You can have it. We're not the most extrovert people, Rayleigh or I. We're more do as I do, not as I say. So we're fairly quiet in our leadership, but tried to lead by example. I was actually captain of Australia before I captained my club, so I hadn't had a lot of experience. I had none, in fact. And the same with Raleigh. So we were captain, vice captain of this team. Going to New Zealand with a lot of new players.

But you must have then come away feeling so, so proud of what you achieved.

That all comes, I think, later, on reflection. At the time, you're just sort of engrossed in what you're doing and, yeah, you have to unwind it a little bit, I think. I think everybody would say that. Did I enjoy captaining? I'm not sure, to be quite honest. I love the tactical side of it and Rayleigh and I worked really well. Captain, vice captain, anything could be said, suggestions made. So we're very open, even with the rest of the team. But always it was great that we had total support from our teammates, which made it a hell of a lot easier.

I just wanted to say about the final that it was the first World cup match to be televised ball by ball, both in New Zealand and also in England. I'm not sure about Australia, but that was quite a significant moment, kind of historically, for people to actually be able to watch it kind of live as it were. And from an English perspective, certainly losing the final was so. I was reading what Rachel Hayhoe Flint wrote afterwards, and she said it proved that England can no longer consider itself the top women's cricketing nation. So I think it was a bit of a blow to England's ego to have actually lost, lost first of all a couple of times to Australia in the round robin and then obviously in the final. And yes, it was a bit of almost a changing of the guard from an England perspective as well. So Rachel Hayhoe, Flynn, Enid Bakewell, Shirley Hodges, Sue Goatman all retired afterwards. So kind of a significant landmark moment for England women's cricket from a sort of changing of the guard perspective.

It's a bit of an end of an era for the England team, for the Australians in the midst of this long winning streak, just going from strength to strength and led brilliantly by Sharon Tredray. It's been awesome to hear your stories, Sharon, and your memories from that 1982 World Cup. Thank you so much for being with us.

Thank you very much. Thank you.

Thanks so much to Raf and Sharon for all those tremendous stories from New Zealand in 1982. Now let's switch focus to 1978. India hosted the tournament's second edition. It was originally meant to be hosted by South Africa, but that didn't happen due to the apartheid era sporting boycott of the country. The Netherlands and West Indies had to withdraw from the competition due to financial reasons, leaving just four teams competing in India. The hosts themselves, Australia, England and New Zealand battled it out across Kolkata, Hyderabad, Jamshedpur and Patna before Australia claimed the World cup trophy for the first time. I spoke to India's captain Diana Idolji about her memories of the tournament.

See, basically we started in 1975 so we were still, you know, groping and trying to find our feet and we wanted to have the World cup in India to promote the game also. Plus get a little bit of experience with the the other foreign teams. Only there were four teams participating in that World Cup. Australia, New Zealand, England and India. Unfortunately we finished fourth, but it was a good experience playing against these foreign sides and we played some of the games in, you know, Bihar and Calcutta and all these places where the crowds were coming in to see the games. So that was a good sign because it helped promote the game and give encouragement performance wise. Yes, we were not up to the mark at all. But it did make us understand that where we stand in international cricket and we need to work hard for it.

Do you remember the global cricketing climate at that time? Because wasn't it right that the tournament was originally due to be staged in South Africa but because of apartheid it was quite a late change that then India put their hand up to say we will host instead?

Yes, definitely it was. We were looking forward to going, but as you said, apartheid had stopped South Africa from participating. And that is why we immediately agreed because we wanted to promote the game in India and to have a World cup so early in the careers of girls to be played in the home country. It was a very good move, I think, at that time and that helped us to move forward.

And the Netherlands and West Indies were meant to come, but they pulled out due to financial reasons. The tournament itself then was a round robin, so three matches per team. And the venues that you were mentioning there, matches were played at Hyderabad, Jamshedpur, Patna and Kolkata. Had much women's cricket been played in those locations before?

Not much, but definitely we wanted to promote. See, playing in the cities like Mumbai, Chennai and all was not going to help because they have a lot of men's cricket going on. And we wanted to go into the interiors, the tier 2 cities, as they called, so that, you know, their publicity is easier, the television rights are easier. And it was this thing. But main thing was that we were traveling by train, so that was a good experience also. And some of the foreign players were excited, you know, going on to the Indian Railways. Of course, they didn't know what they were expecting, but it was a good experience. Absolutely. But financially there was nothing.

Well, that's what I was going to come to next. How was it financed? And what about for you as individual players, your kits, where you stayed, the travel?

No, no, no, we paid to play. So that was a struggle we had in the initial periods.

Did you have to raise money particularly, or was it just digging deep?

We are digging deep. We did meet a few people to sponsor us also. And the hotels and all were just nominal hotels, you know, I wouldn't say five now, what? Five star hotels and all that given now. But it was very, very difficult. Even the kits, some girls had to share kits. It was not that individual kitting or anything. Some would have the sponsors. I'm sorry, but it was very difficult. There was a stage sometimes, you know, we would have only three pairs of leg guards, so one coming in quickly and changing. So. But these are the, you know, teething problems any country would have had when they started playing cricket. But it was a good experience. And we, of course, as I said, we finished fourth, but we went on to Calcutta to watch the finals also. So that was a really good experience.

And what do you remember of the playing kits at that time? Were other teams still playing in skirts? Were you playing in trousers? The first country to wear trousers?

We've always played in trousers. We never played in skirts. The others did, definitely. But I think after most of the teams that played in India and on those times, the grounds that we played, I think the foreign players realized their knees were going and their elbows were going, so it's better to be fully kitted. And West Indies also had trousers later on when they came in. So that's when the change took place. And then all the other teams followed and started playing in trousers.

What are your memories of the crowd numbers then at the matches that India played in particular, where you were captain?

All the games had good, as I told you, these situations, cities, I should say this, but maybe they wanted to see the, you know, girls coming in skirts and the pairs.

Whatever the motivation.

Yeah, whatever the motivation, exactly. In fact, when we started cricket in 1975, we played a Test match. It was under. Not an official Test match at that time, because it was declared later unofficial. We had 30,000 people, people at Eden Gardens watching that first game. So that was something unbelievable. A lot of people didn't expect that. Bihar, we were at 30,000, Patna and all that when we won against West Indies. So it's been a real good journey. I have seen it all. What it was right in the beginning till what it is today.

And what can you tell me about your teammates on that 1978 World Cup? Some of the names that made up your team and some of the characters that you were playing alongside then?

Yeah, we had a lot of players. Shubhangi, Kulkarni, Sudha Shah, Shantarangaswamy. And we've all gone on to captain India. So one time or the other, we've had Rajini Venugopal, we've had number of players. We were a good side, but unfortunately not extreme. Experienced enough, you know. And what was the opposition, I would say were more physically fit and had the experience of playing much more cricket than us because we never had that much domestic cricket or club cricket as such. Club cricket was never there. So this was the only problem. Otherwise the teammates, we gelled well and we had a lot. In fact, the Guwahati, we all caught up with each other and that was the thing. Some of us met after 20, 25 years and it was two days of hilarious laughter and fun and thinking of the old days.

Yeah, Tell me a bit more about that, the gathering in Mumbai of all the former captains of India. Yes, I'll start that again. Got Mumbai on the brain. Tell me more about that gathering in Guwahati of all the former India captain, because I imagine there was a lot of exchanging of memories and recounting of old times.

Yes, it was a good move by BCCI to have at the opening ceremony to felicitate all the former India captains, whether they played under BCCI or not, right from 1975. So it was good. And catching up with a lot of people. Some of them had come from foreign countries. Uk, a girl came down. Then from Saudi, someone came, came from uae, a captain had come. So it was good. And we were catching up with each other because once you stop playing and you're into your own, you know, workload and you biz like Shubangi is a businesswoman and Shanta is a retired person. And it was great meeting some. Some of them. And we've had exchanges before, you know, domestically rivalry used to be there and all that. So we were saying, you did this and you did that and it was unbelievable. We couldn't get to bed the first night. You know, it was such laughter and fun, you know, but in good spirit, good humour. And I really thank BCCI for having given us this moment at Guwahati to catch up with each other and hopefully many more to come.

Are you seeing more of that across the game? More recognition of what the likes of you and other players of your generation did, which has, you know, been the pathway now to where the game is now? Is there much more recognition of the past of Indian women's cricket?

Yes, definitely it is. The BCCI is looking into this. In fact, even Mumbai Cricket association, you must go down to have a look at the museum we have just started. There is a full section on women's cricket right from its inception. And that, I think, is something which the current players should know. What we have gone through, what foundation we laid and what they are now reaping, there's no grudge. They should get much more. I'm very happy with that, that the central contracts have come, everything is coming. Match fees have increased, everything is increased. It's just that people should realize what we, the past, the beginners who came in in 1975, what they have done. We played for passion. We played because if we had given up at that time, women's cricket wouldn't have been there today.

And so if we then go back to the 1978 World cup, the fact that India finished bottom of that round robin, did that feel like a blow in any way? Australia won all their matches and they. They won the World Cup. But as a team, when you were playing for passion, how did you feel at the end of that World Cup? Was there still optimism? For the direction you were going in.

Definitely there was optimism. We knew we were not up to the mark. We wanted that experience and it taught us a lot of things that where we are going wrong, how to pick up on that. As I said, the fitness level was the most important thing. You know, the running between the wickets, the physical strength that the foreigners had, that helped us to improve our games. And then most of us after that started playing with the boys. So that helped a lot also to, you know, get to the next level. Because when you're playing with the boys, you have to be really physically fit. You have to be mentally alert, otherwise you could get damaged very badly.

What are your memories of that Australian team then in 1978, the one that lifted the trophy and just sort of seeing them. And was it their athleticism that stood out for you? Was it technique, their professionalism?

I would say they were very professional, all the three teams. And that's where, because we hardly would have a 10 day, 15 day camp and then go out and play the tournament. So that was not going to be possible. Of course, even the foreign players at that time had to, you know, they would only play on the weekends. They also had to raise money to come to. There was no money at that time also for the foreign teams also. So those experiences which when we, you know, exchange views and all that, we also realize, luckily sometimes some of us had already got our jobs, so we were a little better positioned and you didn't have to raise that much money. And we were traveling in India, but some of the girls had to, you know, give up their jobs to play and come back, then go back and find another job. Some picked up extra jobs to, you know, make that money up. So it was something which, you know, taught us to be strong mentally and physically.

And do you remember what media coverage there was of that tournament in 1978 either television, radio, print media, any journalists following you as a team?

None of. Not the journalists following the team, but there were local journalists. There was All India Radio giving the commentary. I don't think there was, except the final, I think may have been telecast by Doordarshan. But otherwise, yes, print media also covered, as it was more localized, the state we played in, the city we played in. That next day there would be one day before and one day after there would be coverage.

And in 1990, could you have possibly projected forward to 2025 to where the game in India and across the world is now? What would you have even been thinking about the direction of travel then?

Oh, boy, it's gone leaps and bounds. I think ICC is doing a good job in promoting women's cricket even more now. They've taken it up as a challenge and they're promoting the game all over the world. They pumping in a lot of money into women's cricket, which is good and I really am grateful that I've seen all stages and I'm really very happy. We still have a lot more to do, especially the Indian women's cricket team. They have a lot more to achieve and I wish them all the very best.

Diana, great pleasure to see speak to you about captaining in the 1978 World Cup.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Well, that's it for this episode of the TMS podcast. Make sure you subscribe so you get a notification every time we upload. Also, check out the rest of the Women's World cup podcasts we've done, as they're available on the TMS feed right now, as is the latest episode of no Balls with Kate Cross and Alex Hartley. And while you're on BBC Sounds, search for BBC Stumps while you're there. Thanks for listening. Speak to you next time. Bye bye.

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