How England won the 2017 Women's World Cup

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the uk.

This is the story of the one. As a custodial supervisor at a high school, he knows that during cold and flu season, germs spread fast. It's why he partners with Grainger to stay fully stocked on the products and supplies he needs, from tissues to disinfectants to floor scrubbers. All so that he can help students, staff and teachers stay healthy and focused. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

At the BBC, we go further so you see clearer. With a subscription to BBC.com, you get unlimited articles and videos, hundreds of ad free podcasts and the BBC News Channel streaming live 24. 7 from less than a dollar a week for your first year. Read, watch and listen to trusted independent journalism and storytelling. It all starts with a subscription to BBC.com. find out more@BBC.com unlimited.

You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 live. Hello, I'm Henry Moran. Welcome to a look back at the iconic 2017 Women's World cup hosted in England. I'm alongside Alex Hartley who took two wickets in in the final as England beat India. Also, 2009 World cup winner Ebony Rainford Brent and test match special statistician Phil Long to reminisce on an incredible home summer for England.

Gagquad on strike. Schrubsol in now both for Bolshevik. Six wickets for Anya Shrubsall, England's hero. England win the World cup in front of a packed house at Lords. Who go nuts in the crowd. England in a hudd. Listen to that noise. For an England women's team winning a World cup on home soil in 2017 and England have done it by just nine runs at Lords.

Unbelievably, it is now eight years ago that that we have to travel back in time for that extraordinary day when Anya Shobsol took six wickets to win the game for England. That one day international to end one day internationals. It was a special day, an incredible tournament and this is a chance to relive 2017 just a little bit. I mean, Alex, let's start with you because unquestionably every time when, when we introduce you on air, it is World cup winner Alex Hartley and it is something that your life is as rich as anyone's I've ever met. It is something that will forever be a huge, huge part of who you are and your identity.

Absolutely. And you know what? It doesn't really hit me until we're Back here and you talk about it and you. When you just mentioned it then, it gave me goosebumps because I can literally see myself by the pavilion, looking up at the boxes to the right and seeing my mum and dad up there after we'd won the World cup and just bursting into tears. And it's taken me a long time to actually be proud of that day because of everything that's happened since. There's been a long time where I've just ignored. It doesn't feel like my life, but now actually I can look back and be like, nah, that. That was the best day of my life. You know, without a doubt, just being here. The crowd were amazing. Lifting the trophy, drinking enough champagne that I don't really remember the evening. You know, it was an incredible tournament, a very, very proud day. And, yeah, I'm glad that I can finally look back and it makes me smile.

We're going to go through the tournament as it played out, though, because it was a spectacular few weeks that started with actually England losing their opening game against India at Derby when Smitty Mardana played a wonderful knock. And it was a bit of a shock, Ebony, that England came into the tournament expecting big things. Mark Robinson had taken over coach and. And England were aside, that lost Charlotte Edwards, as captain a year before, rather controversially, came into the tournament with expectations. And then it all felt a little bit flat after that opening game.

Yeah. And I think, let's face it as well, when England are at home, you were expecting big things straight away. India weren't really the powerhouse at that stage that they are now as well. So it. It was definitely a. A takedown. You know, you look at that England side as well. So many players. Sarah Taylor, Heather Knight, Nat, Siva Brunt, Catherine Siva Brunt, Jenny Gunn. It was just a powerhouse of England players who had so much experience. And you were expecting a kind of a clean sweep and get this tournament going. And it's. It's always a bit of a shock. That's the better thing about tournament cricket. It was. It's always a bit of a shock. And so it was one of those moments where you had all these hopes of where England could get to. And it was a bit of a leveler. It was like, is this going to happen? So, you know, it was one of those tournaments and, you know, I. I came into it thinking England, you know, up there with favorites. And it hits you. It hits you as a fan, it hit you emotionally that, hold on, everyone here means business. So, yeah, good memories from that Phil.

Talk us through that opening game.

Well I don't think at the time we realized did we that tournament would be bookended by England versus India. Quite a quiet derby wasn't it? Was a quiet start to that World Cup 24th of June India batted first. They scored 281 for 3. We mentioned how much the women's game has come on. 281 for 3. Big big score.

That's a lot. Who's that? Smriti was it?

Big score scores from all the top order. Poonam Route 86, Shmiti Mandanan 90, Mitali Raj 71, Harman Preet Core 24 not out.

Next delivery is hit out to the midwicket and that's going to be brilliantly taken and that is the match. A fantastic diving catch. A deep mid wicket has seen the back of shops hole. It's England's 10th wicket and what a wonderful piece of building that was. After being dropped off the first ball of the over. Who was, who's taken that catch? She's come hurtling in from the deep mid wicket boundary. She's taken making it pretty low off the ground two handed. It hasn't dropped out as their elbows have hit the ground. And the Indians are in a jubilant huddle as well they may be. They have surprised the pre tournament second favorites England. They've won the match by 35 runs in the end.

I'm going to scroll down and see what Alex Hartley's figures were. Can you remember Al?

10, 9 overs. 10 overs, 7 overs.

None for 38.

Ah you know what it's under the run rate I reckon that's all right. Yeah.

England in reply. Yeah they needed 282 to win. Top score from Fran Wilson that day. 80 made 81. That's right in the end England 246 all out.

Alex Hartley not out though I reckon.

Fell short by 35 runs but Alex Hartley was not out.

1 off 3. Isn't that your career stat like the.

Best knockouts or something could not be dislodged.

Left cruelly short of short.

Yes I would have won the game.

Maybe I'll tell you what we talk about like obviously you guys being shocked that we lost that, that opening game and how we were like okay you lot were like oh wow. We as soon as we got into the dressing room after that game we were like we'll beat them in the final. This is the final we are going to beat them.

But how could you possibly be knowing that when you've got Australia in a.

Tournament, you concentrate on yourselves. You don't, you don't. If you go into a tournament, why.

Did you think it would be India?

Just because it would be like this, written in the stars. It was absolutely written in the stars that we would be India in the World cup final. I don't know what it was. It wasn't an arrogance, it wasn't a confidence because we were also a bit shell shocked after that game as well.

One thing that really interests me about the squad and I want you to take us inside that dressing room dynamic, is you were all off social media. There was some quite strict rules around in that sense. What was it like?

Do you know what? Anytime I want, everyone wants to talk about the World Cup. I don't really know because we were just so in our own bubble where there was no newspapers, there was no social media, there was no talking about anyone else. You know, there was no watching of other games. I'm pretty sure the coaches and the captain will have watched other games, but I did not watch a single game of that World cup bar what we were playing in, because we just wanted to concentrate on ourselves. Who cares if meg Lanning scored 100 against India or who cares if, you know, someone else got runs against Sri Lanka? There's nothing we can do about that. All that's going to do for us is go, okay, they're in form. Actually, no. How do we get Meg Lanning out? Do we feed the cut shot and put two points in? Do we try and get her on the front foot? Doesn't matter that she scored runs in the previous game. So coming off social media is unheard of now, isn't it? These girls have got socials, they post. You know, they might have managers that post for them now and things like that, but it was like a not growing our social media. We are just concentrating on ourselves. And all we spoke about was singing the team song in the dressing room.

Fast forward a little bit because the way the tournament worked was everyone played everyone. That was a sort of round robin competition. And Ebony, I don't know about you, but I think our eyebrows started to raise to the possibility of, well, okay, England might be a little further ahead than we realized when they beat Australia. And it was a thriller at Bristol. England hitting 259 for 8. Tammy Beaumont top scoring with 49 and then holding their nerve. England really held their nerve with Australia falling just short, making 256 for 8 and Elise Perry smashing 70. Alex Hartley, by the way, 2 for 31 that day. Best figures from an England bowler. But it was that statement win that made you think, okay, something could be brewing.

Yeah, quite exciting as well. I was just looking back, Elise Villani, what a throwback.

She bowled, didn't she?

She bowled, she got three foot. I remember what's going on there.

I remember us all thinking, australia have lost the plot. Australia, they also had Elise Villani at backstop as well for the short ball. And we, we were all in the dressing room, at least for a lot. And I know she got wickets. We were like, what's going on? They're, they're, they're not used to losing and they're losing and you can tell.

But I think Bristol for me was it felt. I mean, I don't know if you feel that as well. I feel there's certain grounds in the women's game that there's good mojo for England. Bristol's one, I think Chelmsford's one. Taunton used to be one when more games were played there. And so to pull off that win there and then you're seeing Australia with cracks. When I say cracks, it just didn't make sense. You wouldn't expect to see someone like Elise Villani with balls and some of those positions. And so it does get you excited. Think, hold on. The powerhouse that everyone's been nervous about for the last two decades have just been taken down after England had a, a bit of a rocky start. So it gets quite exciting, doesn't it? Because then it goes okay, if they've got that ability to win, how far can this team go? And you know, players like Tammy Beaumont, at that stage, she was still on, you know, the Mark Robinson kind of coming in, giving her license. So you're seeing maybe the, the, the, the strategy is paying off of giving someone responsibility, getting to the top of the order and her really stepping up. Hartley, you picked up a couple in there too. Go on, girl.

Do you know what? It's so strange because every single time Robo went through the starting 11, I'd go through Tammy 1, 2, 3, 4 and obviously it gets to 10. Like, oh, I'm playing every single time. I only missed the Sri Lanka game because they had so many left handers. Every single time, I was so shocked that I was playing in that World cup and I, I never really had any confidence within myself and cricket, but as soon as the ball was in my hand, never in doubt, I was getting wickets.

And that game in particular, when you got the wicket of Meg Lanning especially, who was the other wicket that day?

Beth Mooney.

I think it's not a bad, not bad, not a bad combo to have, is it? It's, you know, it just felt again that there were little things that were appearing. You'll say, okay, well this is a new player or newish player. You'd made your debut the year before and things seem to be, seem to be turning a bit for England. Phil, how dominant had Australia been in the period building up to that World Cup?

Yeah, that. I was just looking at England's performances against Australia. They, they've done okay. They'd won games here or there. It's since that result there that Australia have become really dominant. Dominant against England. So as a result it, in terms of World cup, of course Australia had been incredibly strong. But you're right, England won that game there. They'd also been a hint also at Bristol for Australia that maybe Australia might not quite have been the force they were. Jamari Atapatu 178 not out against Australia. Australia went on and won that game. Unbelievable innings from Meg Lanning second time round. But I think it did start to show that Australia were maybe slightly fallible in that tournament. That that's not something we expect in women's World Cups.

Alex. Cuz you had lost that game against India at the start of the tournament. There was almost a must win nature about the games that you continue to play and you were playing against the weather as well as other things. I remember a game at Leicester where the weather was coming in, you had to get your 20 overs in to constitute a match.

And we bowled loads of seamers and we were, we do need to bow a spinner and get through these overs.

I remember it well. So there was a sense of almost knockout cricket for the team from very early on.

But that's World Cups, isn't it? That's tournament cricket. You, you lose one game, you are on the back foot. But we never thought of it like that. There was never. I wasn't a senior player in that team. I was very much the, the new kid on the block who was not going through the motions. You know, I worked hard and tried to get in the team for every game but that I had that naivety about me, you know, just turn up and play and just back yourself. And as soon as you got the ball in hand just, I was there to take wickets. Didn't matter how many runs I went for as long as I was getting big players out. So that's all that is genuinely all I concentrated on for the tournament was how am I getting Wickets and it was almost ignore everything else. It didn't matter to me if we needed to win every game, but the idea was that I'm going to help the team win every game.

Yeah.

And ebs, from an outsider's point of view, following on from, from that defeat against India, we were watching on with a degree of trepidation, not just because you're thinking, well, you know, from an England point of view, it makes it a more interesting story and one thing, another. But also there was a real sense with a home World cup, it's a huge opportunity as well for the game more widely for England to do well.

Yeah. And I think, you know, in the background we'd seen the rise of women's football and that you could see the importance of how well the women's success was having on a translation of people coming into grounds interest in the tournament. And in some ways it puts double pressure on you. Like, you know, you're looking at the England girls going, come on, you need to pull this out the back here. And so that, that first loss kind of made you concerned about if England end up crashing out quite early when lose one more and then all of a sudden things, you know, fall away. That is going to have a knock on effect in investment awareness of the game. You know, at that stage, remember, they were giving every boy and girl a bat and ball in the stadiums. You're thinking this could fall off quite quickly. So I think it takes a lot for a team to, to really rally around and you know, some, there was some gutsy players in there. You know, you think of the Catherine Siver Brunts at Time the Time and Catherine Brunt at the Time who, you know, held a lot of that energy together. You know, you could feel the emotion coming through as we listen. And I would say actually for me, that tournament actually was one of the harder as a broadcaster because you want to be impartial and talk about the cricket and make your judgments, but you're also in the back of your mind, one, caring about a few of the players and two, thinking about the impact this will have if England have another loss. And so them to come back with that Australia game in particular was like, okay, England mean business, they're up for it, they've got the fight and this could be fun. And so it, it just started to restore your excitement and then you could feel, actually there was that middle bit where you could start to feel all of a sudden, hold on, ticket sales are going up for the later stages of the tournament. People are Starting to get interested. The media is getting interested. And you just felt that sort of swell of excitement start to build.

Yeah, England's World cup form against Australia, I'm just double checking here. They hadn't beaten them in a World cup for 24 years. So when it came to the big games, Australia, we know, you know, were. Were a powerhouse. England had won a World cup in between there, but they hadn't beaten Australia since 1993. So maybe we do tend to forget that England were up against it in a lot of those games, having lost that opening game against India.

It's funny, you talk about the crowds building throughout the World Cup. I had a. I'm an extremely anxious player and I used to just look at the empty stands or the empty seats in a stadium and go, okay, I'll just look at that section. There's nobody here watching. And almost pretend that it was like, okay, there's nobody here watching. And as the game started to build, I was like, where's that empty stand? I'm gonna be sick.

A lot of people watching, mate.

Well, it was certainly busy once we got to the semi finals. And that's where England met South Africa and India faced Australia. First semi final, England against South Africa at Bristol. An extraordinary game and again a remarkable game of cricket with South Africa 218 for six. Minho de Priya scoring an unbeaten 76. And you're thinking at that point, well, England have already beaten South Africa in the group stages and scored a mountain of runs at Bristol to do so. Tammy Bowmot, 148, not out. You're thinking, well, they'll chase this down comfortably. Didn't play out that way at all. Phil, talk us through the England run check.

Well, let's first about talk about that group game at Bristol. It'd been an absolute run fest, you know, in terms of both teams scoring over 300. Unheard of in England in women's cricket at the time, record aggregate score. England scored 373 for 5. South Africa replied they never really got near it, but they got over 300, 305 for nine. England won by 68 runs. So we arrived in Bristol. Semi final. Let's have another run first. It couldn't have been further from the truth. As you mentioned, Henry, I remember South.

Africa being my little, like, team that I couldn't get wickets against. So it took wickets throughout the whole tour of South Africa. Every time we played them, I got ponged by Zelli. Yeah, well, the Zelli always used to hit me and Chloe Tryon Yeah, yeah.

Good old Chloe try.

And she, she. A couple of times she hit me into the stands at Bristol and I was like, I'm done.

Nine overs, none for 40. But anyway, anyway, we move on, we move so. And in that run chase, they were cruising at 142 for 3 and then lost Heather Knight and Natsiva Brunt in the space of an over. And that suddenly made things very, very awkward indeed.

And 218, and I know it's only eight years ago, 218 back then, wasn't the gimme that it seems today. There was 218 out there today, think, oh, this game isn't. Wasn't quite the gimme. But as you say, England were, were cruising 140. Did you want to say 142 for three at one point. And when Heather Knight got out, then wickets found 142, 145, little partnership and then suddenly it was 213 for 7. The game still seemed in the bag and I think somebody might have been padding up.

Not only was I padding up, I was bricking it, absolutely bricking it. I would have batted 12 if you could have 12 in a team. Like, genuinely, I was rubbish at buying. And I remember, you know, wickets falling and I've got cold sweats thinking about it. Put your pads on, El. So I'm strapping them on and I'm sat next to Heather, who was genuinely one of the best at calming me down. She'd always calm me down. So I had Robbo and Heather and I'm sat in the middle and they're like, do you want a banana? I'm like, I'm watching and I'm like, oh, I can't watch. And then Heather goes, take your thigh pad off.

I went, what?

Ishmael's bowling at 80 mile an hour. Take your thigh pad off. And she went, and if you can take your gloves off, take your pads off, take your helmet off and just run. I was like, what? And she was like, you need to have the least amount of equipment on as possible, because we needed like one run, two runs and you need to get down the other end.

The situation was that Fran Wilson departed having played a very valuable 30 or 38, Jenny Gunn 27 at a run of ball, one of the most underrated.

Innings, the best 27 probably in the world.

It was outstanding from, from the all rounder, but you saw Fran Wilson go, and then Laura Marsh face three balls before Ishmael ripped the stumps out. And at that point, with three balls Left three balls left. And England needed how many there were one behind.

They needed two to win. Announced. Strolled.

Well, this. Okay, so for me, this is my favorite memory of the whole tournament. Anyone who watched the Euros recently with Lucy Braun strapping up her thigh and then banging that penalty in. Some people just go out there going, listen, all this noise, I'm going to get the job done. And she's just striding out to the crease and everyone's got their nails and biting their nails. And Anya just kind of walked out and was like, mate, let's just get this job done, yeah? She was bang. And you're like. And then the relief from her.

I remember Daniel Norcross on the floor, unable to look, in a state of complete.

Smashed it through covers, didn't she?

She marched down the track and smashed it away through the offside. First ball that she faced.

Well, it's Anya Shrubsall who's come out to join Jenny Gunn. Two runs needed for a place in the final. Ismail Bowles. Shrubsall advances down the wicket, hits it for four through the covers. Shrubsole has done it for England. They're into the Lord's World Cup Final. She hugs Jenny Gunn. What an incredible victory. Last over drama for England, but they make the World Cup Final on home soil in 2017. Incredibly tight victory over South Africa by just two wickets.

And then march back to the dressing room. And I remember speaking to her after she retired Anya Shrubsal, and she said, look, I hated batting and I went out there and I thought, what have you lot been doing? And it was. It was.

I cried.

So what was it like in that dressing room when those winning runs were.

Scored, like, the leading up to it? It was horrific. No one could watch. I remember Tabby, like, falling over behind us in the dressing room. Everyone was, like, biting their nails, as you say, abs. Like, no one could watch. It was. It's just a horrible situation to be in when you. You cannot do anything to control the game like you. You are. You've got to just trust your teammates. And obviously, we're trying to look calm in the dugout when you, you know, up in the dressing room because the camera is constantly on you and you've played on the big screen, but there's absolutely nothing you can do. And I think the moment for me where I was like, oh, no. Was when Marsha got out, when Laura Marsh got out because she got promoted ahead of Anya to deal with the pace of Ishmael and then didn't. So, yeah, I mean, sheer relief as soon as Anya Slashed that ball. Everyone's up and about, there's helmets being thrown, there's things being thrown everywhere, there's hugs all around and it's like, okay, we've had our 10 seconds of sheer elation. We've got a job to do now.

Yeah. Because it felt like England getting to the final. A bit like Australia getting to the final in 2020 with the. The Phil the MCG stuff. It felt that. That for the wider context was really was.

It was just. Before I get on to that though, the other thing while England was celebrating was the tears. And I think everyone felt for the South African girls. Marazan, Cap, Minion, Dupree, Darling, all on that field crying their hearts out. And they've been a team that was on the rise. The girls were starting to get to know each other, high quality players and they'd really taken it to England. And so you kind of have this moment where you thought, hold on, South Africa could make absolute history here or England could do something special and get to a home final. And I just remember feeling like excitement for the England girls with the Anna getting it done and then looking on the other side and seeing these players absolutely distraught. So that was the moment. But you're right, I think there's a.

Great photo of Anya, isn't there?

Consulting, done it.

Yeah.

Like a Brent Lee kind of moment with.

It's almost like a lucky look.

I can imagine Anya was a bit more like unlucky. Anyway, let's get back to it. Let's. Let's get to the nets for the final.

Sewing the throw. Let's go, go on to the second semi final which basically needs one statistic and one statistic alone. Harmon, pre core. 171. Not out of 115 balls still.

Yeah. It's two days later, it's the 20th of July, we're at Derby, which now seems strange choice for a World cup semi final. But it was, it was India versus Australia. There was rain about that day. I remember various people from the ICC trying to work out would we. Would we need a reserve day if we needed the reserve day, would the game count if it started? There was all sorts of calculations being made. In the end the rain went away and it became a 42 over a side game. But yeah, that didn't stop India from making 281 for 4. And as you mentioned, Henry, that standout figure, the, the innings that people still talk about when they talk about the women's game, don't they harm a pre core not out hundreds, 171, 115 balls, 24s, seven sixes. It had a bit of everything, didn't it? Because when she made 100 there was the, the altercation wasn't there where the people weren't running quick enough to get her 100. That was brilliant. You saw there she was in the, the zone basically.

If anyone who watched that moment, it was brilliant. You had Harmon pre court in the zone, seeing the ball like a football, smashing it to all parts. And then you had a couple of younger players. I think it was Deep T Sharma at that stage, he was just coming into the side and Deepti Sharma was meant to be running, didn't. And Harmonicle literally laid into her. The bats got thrown. It was all kickoff. But you could see, I mean she was in a mostly one of this most special her and Chamari Atapatu most probably played some of the greatest innings I've seen in a women's high pressure match. And, and it was, it was one of those moments where you think is Harmon PR core going to become the best player in the world? Fact. I mean she, she maybe hasn't kicked on from there in that way, but the way she took it to Australia, it needed something special to turn a team over like that. So it was feisty, it had controversy. We were in the commentary box, people going, it's unfair that she was nailing the younger players. I was like, look, she's fired up. Do what you gotta do. It was all kind of one of those games with the drama that you love.

The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 live.

This is the story of the One. As a custodial supervisor at a high school, he knows that during cold and flu season, germs spread fast. It's why he partners with Grainger to stay fully stocked on the products and supplies he needs. From tissues to disinfectants to floor scrubbers. Also so that he can help students, staff and teachers stay healthy and focused. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

At the BBC we go further so you see clearer with a subscription to BBC.com, you get unlimited articles and videos, hundreds of ad free podcasts and the BBC News Channel streaming live 24. 7 from less than a dollar a week for your first year. Read, watch and listen to trusted independent journalism and storytelling. It all starts with a subscription to BBC.com find out more@BBC.com unlimited.

And also 281 or 42 overs. It's a huge number of runs. In response, Australia found themselves losing early wickets. When Meg Lanning was bowled by Julian Goswami, it was 9 for 2, 21 for 3. And it looked at that point it was a done deal. But Elise Vellani made 75, Alex Blackwell 90 or 56 balls. And in the end, yeah, they fell quite a distance short, 245 all out. But there was a while it felt like Australia could do the unthinkable.

Well, there was a last wicket partnership there of 76. As you mentioned, Alex Blackwell made 90 in the end from 70, 10 fours and three sixes. And as you say, while she was still going, you thought, well, this is Australia, they, they might pull this out of the bag in the end they didn't. And Harma pre innings was the difference. But as you mentioned, it wasn't. It never felt it was over until it was actually over.

Yeah, it was amazing game of cricket, amazing tournament and it was Australia's very much. So for them it was a line in the sand of which they said, no, we, we change now, we get our team packed full of all rounders and we ensure that we don't let this happen again. And indeed since then we've spoken about their incredible record since the start of 2018 and. And quite astonishing numbers when you go through it in terms of, in terms of how it's. How it's played out for them over the years since then, but Australia out. Alex, your side is in the final.

Yeah.

Presumably you're quite happy that you're not facing Australia.

Yeah, I remember, I don't know who I asked or whether a message got put in the group, but I remember we got some sort of message saying we're playing India. And it was all being like, yeah, that's good for us. We would much rather play India than Australia. As I say, I didn't watch that game, I've never watched it back. Couldn't tell you. Didn't know Harmon Preet got that many. Didn't know Alex Blackwell got 90. But I think that shows just how much. I was just in my own little space during that World cup and it didn't matter to me who won. Obviously it's easier or. Sorry. We would have preferred to have played India than Australia because of Australia's dominance. But if Australia had won that semi, we were prepared for it and of.

Course you'd already beaten Australia so that, that was a positive thing. I just wonder the day or two before and the morning of the game, how did that differ to Any other game you'd ever played in or prepared for.

Well, it's funny you say that. I got a message from the team psychologist who I'd not spoken to ever.

Alex was not on the psychologist's chair, literally ever.

And he was like, do you want to go for a coffee? And I said, no. I said, why would I want to go for a coffee when you got a World cup final tomorrow? I said, so why do I want to go for a coffee? Why are you treating me? He said it, but it's different. I said, don't treat me any differently, like. Anyway, we ended up going for a coffee, but I said, we're not talking about cricket. I said, if you dare ask me how I'm feeling for tomorrow, I'll probably be sick in your lap. We're ignoring it. I'm nervous, I'm anxious, but I have been for every other game.

Do you know, it was the first time I met you, it was behind the pavilion at Lords. And a load of England players have put up for interview because it was, right, let's really sell this event and make it something different. And you're bouncing from one foot to the other and you seem genuinely excited and you, you know, I know now you were terrified.

Oh, yeah. I remember someone was telling me, nerves and excitement are the same. It's how you come across or how you. How you make that yourself feel about that. So. And I. I used to fake it till I make it. And as I said, Heather Knight was unbelievable at calming me down. There's a. I remember vividly the morning of the World cup final. We came out the pavilion, I've got a thera band, I'm doing some stretches, I'm warming up. And she said, how are you? She taps me on the back. And I said, I said, I'll just look at the empty seat. She went, sold out. That's been my tactic all throughout this World Cup. Heather, what do you mean it's sold out? What am I meant to do now? There are no empty seats. And she just said, breathe and be you. And I went and threw up in the dressing room because I was so nervous. But that was, you know, a brilliant bit of advice. And she just says, just look at me whenever you need me. And to which I just stared at her. The whole game helped ebbs.

When I remember it so clearly, walking down from St. John's Wood tube station and there was. And for Women's Internationals, you know, we done an awful lot of games at some of the smaller venues we mentioned that the semi final was at Derby and, and tournament open was at Derby, but Lords was a special occasion. And walking down from St. John's you thought there's a lot of people here. Goodness me, it's a few hours before the game starts and already there was a sense.

Yeah, I think that's why I ended up getting emotional again because you start to think of the Rachel hey ho Flints and the people who fought long before to be able to pave the way for women to come through. And then you're starting to think, hold on. The newspapers were all bubbling and getting excited. All the media center which often for women's games up to that point could, you know, you have a few people faces that we all know but all of a sudden is packed and the main, main journalists are in. You walk in the ground and their kids, families, people from all sorts of different worlds. And also the fun, the, the touts out of the people were, mate, can I get your ticket? And I was like, actually I'm all right because I've got my past to get in. But they were on the, they were on the hardcore. Like to have touts at a women's game out there trying to resale make that gives you the sense of how exciting it was a pack Lord, people could not wait. Your phone is blowing up as well with people who never said they cared that much about women's cricket. Also always all going, hold on, the women are in the final. We want to get in. How do we become part of this?

How many media interviews did you get asked to do before that as well? And you're like, I think you didn't care two months.

Yeah, exactly. Sorry. Ye. Yeah. And but you, you get, you get excited by it. And I think the thing is that I loved as well, you know, the giving a kid a bat and ball everyone who came through the gates. So you know that anyone who was going to be inspired was going to be able to leave and go and straight away try and recreate the moments of the players that they'd seen. I think it was during that tournament we saw a nutmeg come through and you know that the kids were going to be possibly trying to recreate that. So I mean the, the excitement and the build. I think you felt it like the his on my neck were up from the minute you woke up. Saw it on the TV news, saw it doing early interviews, coming into the ground, feeling that swell of excitement and knowing England could do something special, but it wasn't there yet. And so then that left that anxiety even within us knowing this could be the most special moment, but also it could go horribly wrong.

It was a funny old day as well. There was rain around and it was cloudy and sort of suddenly sunny again and it just felt all very sort of intense and full on in, in an odd sort of way it was.

So busy coming into the ground. Family and friends, some of them missed the national anthem, that's how busy it was because obviously family and friends set up the time. What time you get into the ground? Normally it's an hour before, so we'll do the same. The queues were so big my mum ended up having an argument with the security man. But we're family and friend, we can't, we cannot possibly miss the national anthem. And I think they ended up just barging through security and getting to the ground just in time. But that came as a shock to all of us, how busy it was.

Yeah, well, let's go through the game then. England won the toss, batted first, made 228 for 7, which felt okay, but it didn't feel like a huge number of runs. Top scoring, Natsiva brunt who made 51, Sarah Taylor 45 and Catherine Sivabrunt made 34 of 42 balls. Again Jenny Gunn at the back end of the innings, valuable runs with 28, 5. Phil, the run chase is always sort of looked at as a massive opportunity thrown away by India. Talk us through where they were at various points.

Well, they opened with Poonam Route and Smeeti Mandana. I remember being very excited. Smitty Mandana making her first ever duck in one day internationals in the final shops.

All to Mandana. She's bold coming forward. And the stumps light up as Shropsal getting its first wicket five for one.

Well, it was a bit of a mixed bag over but I tell you what, we know how dangerous Mandana can be. In the last game she played she picked up a brilliant 90 odd. But not today. And your shrubsole, she was getting the ball to move, she was struggling actually to control it. But this one got through the, the small gap there. Man down a little bit too late on the shot and wow. Well, if you want, if you want that wicket to get you going, that's nothing better than seeing someone be bowled through the gate. And everyone knows how classy Mandana can be.

Although Mandana went without scoring, India were 5 for 1. Mitali Raj went relatively cheaply. She was run out, wasn't she? By herself.

Out.

Ran herself out, didn't she? Yeah, for 17 India 43 for 2. Then a partnership of 95 took India to 138 for 2 before Harmon pre Core was bowled out. Let's have a look here. CA Beaumont, Bold heart. They.

Well, I remember it so clearly because it went out towards the grandstand and time stood still. And I mean, what it must have been like for you, Alex.

Oh, it was. It was horrific because I remember two balls like previously I'd gone, right, okay, toss one up. She whacked me down the ground here for six and into the media centre. Basically felt like into the media center. So put my fielder back, went again, bowled a really lovely delivery, little bit of drift, pitched on leg, bang, down the ground for six again. So I'd gone for 12 in two balls and I was like, okay. Heather looks at me, she's like, you're good, you're fine. I was like, okay, I'm gonna bowl one into the pitch. So I bowled one into the pitch and she smacked it. And I was like, oh, no, that's gone absolutely miles. And it was one of those where time stood still. We almost all had time. Me, Heather, Sarah behind the stumps to all look at each other two or three times going, who's watching? Because I'm not watching where that goes. And I both fingers crossed. See that, it's Tammy, no disrespect, but she dropped a few catches. There's almost a moment where you go, no. And then she caught it. The crowd goes wild. Paul's on 51 at the moment, moves.

Across her stumps and she sweeps out towards backwards square leg. And the catch is taken. Alex Hartley yet again in amongst the wickets. Partnership is broken. Is this the twist? 138 for 3.

I just went, absolutely.

And let's not forget this is Harmon Pre core who has just come off the back of that innings.

Yeah, and it was gonna take a special or. Or a rank long hop to dismissal.

But it was, you know, it felt like a moment, didn't it?

It was, it was. I mean, you. You felt with that catch, England were gonna possibly hold things together. But then obviously the Jenny Gunn potentially.

Well, we'll get on to that.

Well, even at that stage, even after Alex took that wicket, India needed 100 and they were 138 for three. They had seven wickets in hand. They still only needed 91 off 99. You know, the match was still very much in their favor. They Then progressed to 191before Poonam Route was out to any subso starting the sort of the famous. You Know, run of pay that we know about. There was still time for you to get another work at Alex.

It was strange because as soon as we got Harmon Pre out, we were never losing. We felt like we were never losing. But when you looked at dls and you looked at the scorecard and you look back at the game now, we should never have won. No, we should never have won that game. India bottled it. Absolutely bottled it. They were so in control. Anya won us that game, you know, bowling the way that she did. But India was so in control for such a long period.

Yeah, that, that shrub soul wicket getting Prune AM Route 86 off 115. India then needed 438 off 43 with 6 wickets in hand. Like you're saying in every calculation you look at, that's India's game, but we.

Never felt like we were losing.

But that's an extraordinary thing. I remember Mark Robbins is saying the same thing, that he was never really worried about it. And I, I think watching on there was always that sense of the women's game at that era, if you could get it to a run of ball and pressure, that could start getting awkward.

Yeah. And I think that the depth that we see now in the women's game wasn't quite there for teams. I don't think they knew how to execute under pressure. So if you could keep on and you know, and it's almost, you know, you could see, actually looked around the field and you could see it was almost like the England players were going around just keeping the game, keeping the.

Game chat was runnable, get it to.

Run a ball, keeping the game. And so that, that feeling that England never took took their eye off the fight at any stage was important because they could feel that and the crowd as well. That's another thing that we maybe haven't really added in. I do think the crowd often when England go to India or play an Indian crowd, you get that 12th man, 12th woman feeling because the crowd gives that. I definitely think there was something in that. England got lifted with a bit of mojo. You could feel how much it meant and I think that threw a bit back on India as well. And so they were on paper cruising. But that getting it to a run a ball and then the crowd going, if England stopped the ball just to stop the ball in the field, everyone was going absolutely electric for it. So that the atmosphere as well helped England stay in the game and I think put pressure on India.

It's funny you say that because the crowd at times felt like we were In India, there was ball crunch through the covers for four. The crowd went wild. There was a dot ball, the crowd went wild. It couldn't figure out what on earth the split was of the crowd. But all I remember it being was incredible. And like you say, the crowd did lift us because every dot ball we felt, but every four through the covers we also felt it was like, okay, this is wild.

What about the annual Shrubsville spell, Phil? Because talk us through, you know how it fell away and how it fell away so quickly.

Well, in the end, I mean India still needed 11 or 15 balls when Shika Pandy was run out once again and your shops all involved in, in that run out. So with two wickets left and needed 11 of 15, the game was going tighter. But you know, the run rate had not never got out of hand. Anya Schwabzel came back in the 49th over. She got deep T Sharma for 14, caught by Natsiva and then came back and bowled Gaia Quad to win the game. To finish with figures, almost unbelievable figures of 9.4 overs, no maidens, 6 for 46.

And I'm going to chuck in there as well. Alex Hartley Turnovers, 2 for 58. More expensive than typical. But I remember you also telling me you were bowling much quicker than you ever normally did. Weirdly.

Yeah, I, I think the pressure just got to me, you know, I, I don't know, I don't know what it was, but I remember being like, okay, I felt like I was bowling normal and I think that just shows what pressure can do. And I felt so in control, but I was just leaking runs or there'd be a four ball every over and I'd be like, oh well, okay, good shot or bad ball, whatever. And then it was not only you get your stats back at the end and you obviously it was a couple of weeks later and the, the speed differences, I was like, okay, that's good to know for next time because next time I'm under pressure, I just need to just take that extra step and that extra breath and just take my time.

Worth pointing out also that the only other wicket taker apart from Andrew Shropsoul was Alex Hartley because there was the two run outs now the drop. So the game is.

Oh, do we have to?

We have to, I'm afraid because the game is virtually one for both sides at various points as the ball loops towards mid off off the batting of. I think it was Gar Quad. No, she, that was her first ball. So it would have been Poonam Yadav and it is looping towards Jenny Gunn, who's got the safest hands in the team. And England are celebrating. And then, inexplicably, down it goes.

In goes Shrub Soul trying to advance. He's lost it in the air. Should be caught on the edge of the circle. Oh, and it's put down, put down by Jenny. Jenny Gunn, the simplest of catches. It was looped up to her at mid off. Now, that's the pressure of a Lord's final look.

Jenny Ghan is the nicest person in the world.

That is an irrelevance at this point.

All right, this moment, I'm gonna have to do her one. I'm sorry, Jen, we love you and I think the whole world loves you. But at that moment, the person who I arguably, I don't know how many ODI she has, but she must have had 100 ODIs under the bank. She has the biggest hands, I would argue in world cricket, like, she's got these levers. So. And she also, you know, she's known that the reason they put her in, had always put her in really key positions is because her ability, she doesn't drop them. So I think, you know, you saw this sort of dolly and you're thinking, well, this is someone with 100 ODIs or whatever it is under her belt. She's got the biggest hands, she's the. The most calm person under pressure. And it all went to pot and that. I remember just hearing the shrieks in the media center of, no, she's just dropped the World Cup. And you're thinking, that's it, it's done. And I, you know, I fell for her because even though they ended up going on to win, she will never live that moment down.

And I just note here with some of the online commentary that mentions the drop catch, it says, but the bowler remains super calm. And then next ball, Anya Shop Soul Castle Sky Quad and England have won the World Cup.

Well, it has to be fate. One thing I have to say about Anya, you know, she, she, she is resilient on a plate, on every dish that you can imagine, she is just resilient. But that, and I'm sure we'll get into in a moment, but that picture of her as a young girl looking out across Lords and then having the ball in her hand, chaos going around with the crowd going off. I feel like almost she must have been visualizing or calming herself down to be able to handle that pressure. And then there was that picture that got recreated of her as a kid, and then her Kind of looking over lords. And it is one of those things that it sounds really corny but you. You talk about the dream of what it is to play for your country and to go out and win a moment to calm things down. Chaos. And she just had this sort of zen. And the way she got the game done not just in the semi final but in the final I think is sporting it like the sporting dream.

And here in the commentary box we'll get out to celebrations for you as players shortly. Alex to wrap up. But here in the commentary box I'll never forget it. You were in floods of tears.

I couldn't get a word out.

But why.

So there was a few things. So one was. I think it was all the emotions of. I. I always think about where the games come from. Like I say, anyone who knows the history of the World Cup, Rachel Hayhoe Flint used to fight tooth and nail and got the first ever women's 50 over World Cup.

First World cup men or women.

And she was part of the person who sold to get the investment to make it happen. She. She did so much. And I remember coming into Lourdes when. When women weren't even allowed in the pavilion meeting hey Ho Flynn and the fight that people like her, Claire Connor had fought to get the girl's investment in terms of contracts which, you know, things like that. So I think coming in, seeing what I saw had just already got me revved up. And then I think the other which did me, Catherine Brunt now Siva Brunt was a good mate of mine who I saw go through injury after injury after injury and fight back. And I remember like just looking down on the field and I was just thinking about the. The journey that athletes go through. To be able to have a moment like this was just so special that I think I was just feeling all of that and I just hit it. And then I'm on air and getting asked questions and I'm like. And I could not speak. I was just. I was really het up with emotion. And I knew how special what has happened from then. And you look at the investment in the 100, the hundreds of a sulfur nearly a billion with a men and women's team in parity and equal footing. And that had a lot leverage to do with that moment. The excitement that's come from that the global game and the pace, you know, it really. India now becoming a powerhouse all really stemmed from England capitalizing on that moment and India being in that final. So I think I just felt it all and I knew a Lot of the girls I knew, I knew Hartley well enough as well. A little bit from the old sorry days only, but. And I have to admit, I did get stuck into the celebrations with the girls. Me and Eisha were fully invested, even though we weren't anywhere near it.

But I think once you play for England, you're an England player.

Yeah. You know, and then you feel it.

Yeah.

And I was just. I was so proud. And you're meant to be impartial, but it wasn't a moment to be.

Phil, how did you feel at that moment?

I'll tell you what story I'll give you the next day. As you say, we celebrated quite well that night, didn't we? Yeah. I remember players coming back to various hotels.

I don't remember either of you, that.

Some people not remember coming back. I got the train home the next day. I was. I normally go via some Pancras, but I was at Euston. I can't remember quite well. I remember I had a very good drink the night before, but the big screen at Houston, if you've ever waited for a train at Euston station, everyone looks up at the big screen, wait to see what train their platform will go from. They were showing the last over of the final, and I stood there waiting for the train. And when Anya took that final wicket, I don't know, 500 people in there all cheered in unison almost. Hats going in the air, people celebrating. And as you say, you know, it kind of put England's women, or put women's cricket into that position front and center, where it most definitely hadn't have been. I think a few years previously, people wouldn't even have looked at that biz, Kareem. But suddenly it was the thing. Everyone was talking about it. And you did feel, rightly so, that the game was going to move on from where it had been to probably where it is now.

Final word for you, Alex. The celebrations we know, as you've mentioned, were lively. But what about fullness of time and. And how you look at it now and. And how you assess what happened eight years ago?

I think the thing that sticks out for me was how many people stuck around after we won and it started raining and there's a couple of pictures of the girls going into the pavilion and all the family and friends and their high fiving family and friends going past. There was also a couple of us that really took our time on the lap of honor. And there was thousands of people that stuck around and young girls, young boys, all wanting signatures, photos to try the medal on. And I think that really sticks to me is, is you just knew that you we'd captured the country, we'd captured the nation, we, it sounds cliche, it's spoken about a lot, but we inspired.

So many people that day and you'd taken that opportunity.

Yeah. And you know, like we did, we'd gone, okay, let's just win games. And within winning games, we inspired so many more people to, to play cricket. But it was the best day of my life. And it, as I said earlier, it's taken me a while to come to terms with it and you know, how my career panned out afterwards. But I look back in with immense pride and every time I walk out, I will always remember that World cup final. And there was a picture somebody took of me in the crowd in front of the mound stand of me just down in a bottle of champagne. I was like, that's. That sums it up, basically.

Thank you to Phil Long, to another World cup winner, Ebony Rainford Brent, but also to forever a World cup winner for that incredible day at Lords in 2017. Alex Hartley. The ICC Women's Cricket World cup featuring the stars of women's cricket smash straight.

Back down the ground.

This girl, eight teams takes the camp.

One winner Australia to lift the World cup trophy.

The ICC Women's Cricket World Cup.

She does not fear a thing.

Hear the action with Radio 5 Sports Extra and keep up to date with the TMS podcast on BBC Sounds.

At the BBC we go further so you see clearer. With a subscription to BBC.com you get unlimited articles and videos, hundreds of ad free podcasts and the BBC News channel streaming live 24. 7 from less than a dollar a week for your first year. Read, watch and listen to trusted independent journalism and storytelling. It all starts with a subscription to BBC.com find out more@BBC.com unlimited.